#emc | Logs for 2009-12-27

[00:01:08] <jt-plasma> say Goodnight Gracie
[00:01:38] <frallzor> nn
[00:26:06] <eric_unterhausen> did you get your vfd running?
[00:49:34] <frallzor> eric_unterhausen si
[00:49:49] <frallzor> didnt you see my vide i spammed today? :P
[00:49:52] <frallzor> *video
[01:00:50] <frallzor> you must have seen it :)
[01:12:16] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[01:57:52] <jimbo> I am trying to connect a pin axis.0.amp-enable out to a signal emcmot.0.enable and an output pin. I have not been able to figure out the net command to do this.
[02:53:06] <lumberjack_jeff> Hi, having trouble with latency.
[02:53:29] <lumberjack_jeff> anyone available?
[02:54:26] <lumberjack_jeff> I'll check back later.
[02:55:02] <eric_unterhausen> good way not to get any help
[02:55:22] <cradek> hm
[03:06:15] <jimbo> when using hotmnot2 driver is there anything special to turn a gpio pin into an output? I see the pin change in HALMETER but no output in the IO card.
[03:06:28] <cradek> yeah, you set is_output
[03:07:36] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[03:07:41] <cradek> search for is_output
[03:08:29] <jimbo> so you use setp pinnumber.is_output in the servo.hal file?
[03:20:15] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[03:58:50] <jimbo> boy changing from the m5i20 to the hotmot2 driver is a fairly painful experiance..........
[03:59:24] <cradek> jimbo: yep
[03:59:47] <cradek> but so many advantages
[04:03:50] <jimbo> I am trying to net a link from the axis.0.output enable pin the one of the HM2 pins to no avail. I have set the is_output. and when I use axis to turn on the machine the HM2 putput does not toggle. pulling my hair out. is there sample code I can look at?.......
[04:04:26] <cradek> there are LOTS of sample hm2 configs in the distribution
[04:05:55] <cradek> are you sure you've got the right output? that can be the hard part
[04:06:03] <cradek> the right gpio number
[04:07:22] <jimbo> I can toggle it with setp inside of hal
[04:08:06] <jimbo> Al of the configs are stripped down no iput or ouput examples for general IO
[04:08:52] <cradek> where are you stuck? if you can setp it, you can hook a signal to it and it'll work
[04:22:36] <jimbo> inside the axis enable chain I am trying to add a line to take AXIS.0.AMP-ENABLE-OUT pin and link it to my output pin as well as the emcmot.00.enable signal
[04:26:17] <cradek> emcmot.00.enable is the name of the signal that already hooks some other pins together?
[04:28:36] <jimbo> I think that I have it. I added the output pin to the previous line:
[04:28:38] <jimbo> Original: net emcmot.00.enable => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.enable
[04:28:40] <jimbo> New: net emcmot.00.enable => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.enable hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.071.out
[04:28:41] <jimbo> This seems to have resolved it.
[04:29:00] <cradek> yep that looks right
[04:32:20] <jimbo> Now my outputs are inverted.....
[04:33:07] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers_hostmot2.html#r1_12_2
[04:33:57] <cradek> I think for the 7i37 or opto22 boards you need to invert all the outputs
[04:34:32] <jimbo> I am using the OPTO22 for the gpio
[04:35:33] <cradek> yeah I'm pretty sure you need to invert the pin for each place you have an output module
[04:37:53] <jimbo> The inversion works. Now onto the joint follow error
[04:38:16] <jimbo> Thank you Cradeck......
[04:39:34] <cradek> servo tuning?
[04:41:35] <jimbo> I copied my setting from the m5i20 config and inserted them does not seem to have worked.
[04:42:32] <cradek> not too surprising. maybe the scaling is different.
[04:42:52] <cradek> are you sure you have controlled motion - like the command or feedback aren't inverted?
[04:44:02] <cradek> I guess you'll see that immediately when you get halscope set up - because it'll move the wrong way!
[04:44:53] <jimbo> It gives me a joint 2 following error right after power up. and shuts down.
[04:45:09] <cradek> jimbo: catch it in halscope and see what it's doing
[04:45:26] <cradek> trigger on axis.2.f-error or whatever it's called
[05:22:19] <jimbo> It's all about pid tuning. It looks like the tuning is way different.
[08:28:25] <Valen> anybody know off hand if I can mix step+dir and servo on a mesa card?
[08:32:17] <Valen> ahh looks like yo can
[09:10:06] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[09:38:19] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[10:07:06] <micges> Valen: you can mixup stepper and pwm freely on mesa
[10:45:31] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[10:46:30] <alex_joni> micges: right, but only on hostmot2
[10:46:51] <micges> yes of course
[10:48:38] <micges> alex_joni: pm
[10:49:09] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[11:27:40] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[11:27:59] <frallzor> hoyhoy
[11:28:29] <micges> heyhey
[12:05:40] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[12:22:27] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[12:26:29] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:25:19] <frallzor> how nice, a successful 24000rpm test
[13:25:30] <Valen> i hope thats a spindle speed ;->
[13:25:40] <frallzor> yes :P
[13:26:20] <Valen> looking for spindles for our mill
[13:26:22] <Valen> what you got?
[13:29:26] <frallzor> Elektromotor spindle
[13:29:32] <frallzor> typical aircooled type
[13:29:59] <Valen> url?
[13:30:12] <frallzor> http://www.teknomotor.com/
[13:31:12] <Valen> what sort of $ did that run to?
[13:31:25] <frallzor> hmm
[13:31:40] <frallzor> too much :
[13:31:41] <frallzor> :P
[13:31:45] <Valen> lol
[13:31:54] <Valen> what are you going to cut with it?
[13:32:11] <frallzor> a little bit of this, a little bit of that
[13:32:18] <frallzor> wood, plastic, alu
[13:32:36] <Valen> I'm looking for one that can do steel
[13:32:37] <frallzor> Ill see what it can do
[13:32:42] <Valen> stainless and inconel
[13:33:04] <frallzor> pretty sure this one could do that, as many others
[13:33:12] <frallzor> its just a Q about power and stuff :P
[13:33:32] <Valen> lol as always
[13:34:13] <archivist_emc> spindle can but frame will effect what you can do
[13:34:37] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmReHL3n0FM&feature=related is what i'm after
[13:35:14] <Valen> beats mucking about with coolant ;->
[13:35:45] <frallzor> that spindle is in another league :P
[13:35:52] <Valen> (especially as our coolant pump blew up ;-<)
[13:36:16] <Valen> 100thousands depth of cut
[13:36:22] <Valen> whats that in real numbers lol
[13:36:54] <frallzor> http://www.vimeo.com/8405672 this is my baby doing 24k
[13:37:03] <Valen> 2.54mm depth of cut?
[13:37:33] <Valen> RPM on that cut doesn't actually sound that high
[13:38:11] <Valen> yours sounds a little crunchy at low speed
[13:38:18] <Valen> and a jet at high speed lol
[13:38:29] <frallzor> ceramic bearings, they sound odd sometimes
[13:38:30] <Valen> your gamer than me doing that without a clamp
[13:38:53] <frallzor> especially when its placed like that =)
[13:39:07] <frallzor> I trust it, It doesnt wanna leave me :P
[13:39:10] <Valen> such that if it jams it'll get you fair in the face?
[13:39:24] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[13:39:57] <Valen> what do you think the KW are on that spindle archivist?
[13:40:31] <frallzor> it wont jam on me, it likes me
[13:40:43] <Valen> it'd want to you reckon ;-
[13:40:44] <Valen> >
[13:50:03] <cheiron> hi all
[13:50:35] <cheiron> i experience some problems loading a custom HAL component (compiled with comp)
[13:52:51] <frallzor> * frallzor strokes his spindle
[13:53:14] <cheiron> compiling the rt-component works flawless (it's not written by me and it seems to work for the author)
[13:53:20] <cheiron> cheiron is now known as proof
[13:53:24] <Valen> we are hoping to make spindles
[13:53:34] <Valen> other than free what would people like from them?
[13:54:02] <frallzor> radial and axial lods
[13:54:04] <Valen> probably not looking at super high speed, aiming to be able to have some low down torque though
[13:54:04] <frallzor> loads
[13:54:11] <proof> then loading with loadrt fails. halcmd simply stats "module not loaded"
[13:54:44] <proof> after that running an halcmd -U gives a mess, because the module IS loaded and thus the rtai modules can't be removed
[13:55:14] <proof> any hints? (im using the last bdi ubuntu with git head branch)
[14:00:14] <frallzor> btw some prices for the spindles can be found here Valen http://www.damencnc.com/
[14:00:18] <frallzor> got mine from him
[14:00:54] <Valen> ouch
[14:01:08] <Valen> I was looking at the ebay ones
[14:01:16] <Valen> not as good to be sure
[14:01:31] <Valen> but our current drive maxes out at 1600rpm
[14:01:43] <Valen> which isnt really enough on a 6mm ballmill
[14:02:11] <Valen> it will push a 12mm end mill at 600mm/minute through stainless at .5mm cut depth
[14:12:03] <proof> problem solved: the name of the component didn't match the filename of the .ko module!
[14:13:04] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:19:44] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_uvM-5xKs&feature=channel revenge on printer
[14:26:55] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[14:28:40] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[14:32:55] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:50:49] <tom3p> that damencnc.com url... firefox renders the drop down menus >behind< the nearby graphics. i see that a lot with firefox :( you cant read the menu but you see little bits between the nearby graphics , makes navigation impossible
[14:52:02] <frallzor> :P
[14:53:07] <cradek> for me, the menus are drawn ugly, but are usable
[14:53:27] <frallzor> might be dependant on res
[14:53:42] <cradek> ff 1.5.something here
[14:56:49] <Valen> 3.5 here works ok
[14:56:52] <tom3p> ff 2 here, downgraded from annoying 3
[14:56:53] <Valen> its an issue with flash
[14:57:16] <Valen> and i'm 50/50 using chrome
[14:57:39] <tom3p> yep, thing in front is flash
[14:58:00] <tom3p> flash 9
[14:58:01] <Valen> yeah its layering the flash poorly
[14:58:05] <Valen> flash 10 here
[14:58:31] <tom3p> thx, i was ready to chg to iceweasel or opera
[14:58:47] <Valen> flash10 is available for 64 bit
[14:58:54] <Valen> iceweasel probably wouldn't help
[14:59:01] <Valen> never liked opera dont know why
[14:59:24] <Valen> and chrome is aparently "out" for linux now officially
[15:06:07] <cradek> oh flash? I don't have that
[15:14:21] <Valen> oh its putting dhtml meus behind the flash
[15:14:23] <Valen> sucky
[15:29:47] <alex_joni> works ok on chrome
[15:43:50] <frallzor> anything special on damencnc ya wanna lookt at tom3p? =)
[15:57:08] <isy> hi all
[16:13:06] <alex_joni> Jymmm: sale at DH (9.24$/year for unlimited)
[16:38:03] <tom3p> frallzor: thx, but if i randomly click on the 'inbetween flash' arae, i can get to pages with same menu that dont have the flash prob :)
[16:38:23] <frallzor> I see :P
[16:38:26] <tom3p> nice site too, lotsa igus teflon slides
[16:38:49] <frallzor> he has some nice shit
[16:38:53] <frallzor> got my spindle from him =)
[16:40:58] <tom3p> we oughtta find out what the imprt duties are, those items are all from other places which are cheaper in USA. if USAprice + duties + time < euro pricing = opportunity
[16:41:58] <frallzor> no need
[16:42:18] <frallzor> duty + taxes + shipping = pretty much the same
[16:42:37] <tom3p> damn, cancel that yacht order
[16:43:03] <frallzor> nowadays its allmost impossible to get away from duty and taxes
[17:36:52] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[17:43:02] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ?
[17:44:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni: * New Customers Only. Not available in all regions.
[17:44:32] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[17:44:38] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Thanks, but iirc we pay $7/yr unlimited
[17:49:49] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[18:08:03] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[18:17:28] <proof> does anybody in here have an email address of geo01005?
[18:35:44] <danimal_garage> morning
[18:37:03] <micges> good evening
[18:41:43] <WalterN> hey, where I used to work we had an omni-turn with a thirdparty electric high-speed tool thing used for milling operations... for the life of me I cant find anything online like it
[18:42:45] <cradek> the general term is 'live tooling'
[18:42:48] <toast> live tool lathes are pretty common
[18:43:09] <toast> but they are integral to the machine now, rather than an add on
[18:43:14] <WalterN> its like a 50,000RPM thing that I cut in the bed (or whatever its called) so it could be clamped and held on center
[18:43:15] <WalterN> right
[18:43:20] <WalterN> I cant remember the name of it
[18:43:34] <toast> that sounds like a die grinder head
[18:43:36] <WalterN> and cant find anything online remotely like it
[18:43:38] <toast> or jig grinder head
[18:44:00] <WalterN> I do remember they also were in the dentistry industry
[18:44:10] <WalterN> this piticular company
[18:45:07] <frallzor> hmm
[18:45:10] <WalterN> the largest thing it could clamp onto was 1/4"
[18:45:14] <WalterN> (tool)
[18:45:23] <toast> dumore?
[18:45:31] <toast> there are dumore toolpost grinders
[18:45:46] <frallzor> www.solectro.se swedish though
[18:45:53] <toast> or just tool post grinders in general, of which dumore is (was) the biggest manufacturer
[18:45:54] <frallzor> but they do dental mills and such
[18:46:46] <WalterN> this live tool was 40mm in diameter if I remember right
[18:47:14] <WalterN> or 30mm
[18:47:22] <WalterN> hmm
[18:47:36] <toast> i would be shocked if you could find something like that nowdays
[18:47:48] <toast> other than just looking through ebay
[18:47:52] <WalterN> 40mm I think... 30mm seems small
[18:48:11] <cradek> 50krpm and 30-40mm sounds really unikely to me - what could you do with it?
[18:48:25] <WalterN> I cant remember the name of it... must have cost $2,000 or more
[18:48:40] <WalterN> I used it for a few things
[18:49:18] <WalterN> $5,000 more likely
[18:49:19] <WalterN> heh
[18:50:30] <WalterN> since I am just getting into electronics, was thinking something like that would make an ideal engraving tool
[18:50:50] <WalterN> and couldent remember the name, or know where to look for such things
[18:51:34] <toast> there's no need to find a live tool head for a lathe to do that
[18:51:51] <toast> just get a high speed die grinder head, or a dremel tool, or any number of spindles that have fairly high rpm ranges
[18:52:19] <WalterN> enh... yeah.. they tend to vibrate a lot
[18:52:31] <toast> get a better die grinder head
[18:53:09] <frallzor> get a good one then
[18:54:11] <toast> if you want to spend on the best small diameter grinding spindles, you can find used jig grinding spindles for $2000-5000
[18:54:21] <toast> moore is the most common
[18:54:26] <WalterN> cradek: now that I'm thinking about it, I'm almost certian it was 40mm... 30mm would be too small
[18:54:59] <toast> they come in rpm ranges from 30k, to 50-70k adjustable, to 175k fixed
[18:55:14] <toast> and they most certainly will not move
[18:55:20] <toast> jiggle, vibrate, etc
[18:56:13] <WalterN> http://www.mooretool.com/spindle.html thats a lot closer to what I had in mind :P
[18:56:43] <toast> if you have the money for them there isn't much better
[18:57:24] <toast> but you'll be paying more than 5k for a moore factory rebuilt spindle
[18:59:46] <WalterN> hmm
[19:00:11] <WalterN> I'll have to call where I used to work and find out who makes it
[19:00:33] <WalterN> last time I was at a trade show they had a big display
[19:00:49] <WalterN> just cant remember for the life of me who made it
[19:02:08] <WalterN> and my google-fu seems to be broken :/
[19:26:46] <eric_unterhausen> I have some of those spindles, newinabox
[19:28:20] <eric_unterhausen> but I could never figure out what I needed to run them
[19:41:58] <toast> eric_unterhausen what spindles
[19:42:12] <eric_unterhausen> moore jig bore grinder spindles
[19:42:16] <toast> oh shit.
[19:42:34] <eric_unterhausen> I have a friend that has a compulsive need to give things like that away
[19:43:27] <toast> call moore, iirc it's 60 psi dead dry air
[19:44:09] <eric_unterhausen> these are the electric kind, but they do seem to require air
[19:47:18] <tom3p> in Europe look for Hauser jig grinder parts
[19:48:36] <tom3p> moore jig grinders had the 'heater band', you had to turn 'em on 4 hrs before using so everything was at same temp
[19:54:22] <tom3p> Henri Hauser AG Biel 256-46 Jig Grinder now at 3500 on ebay, nice old iron, long bearing spindle, optical verniers
[19:56:09] <tom3p> when they say 4 axis cnc jig grinder do they mean ZW or is the eccentric an 'axis' ( oughtta be 4 axis to be useful... plus a vfd )
[19:58:16] <toast> it's usually XYUC
[19:58:27] <toast> Z depth is not something that is controlled
[19:58:53] <tom3p> wow hardinge owns hauser ( and bridgeport and tschudin )
[19:59:05] <toast> so the table xy, and then the head rotation and diameter
[19:59:13] <danimal_garage> monopoly!
[19:59:16] <tom3p> toast i thought we has z advance on moore's
[19:59:40] <toast> my impression was that it was a manual z feed
[19:59:54] <tom3p> an increment like on the radius, very mechanical dog feed like a shaper ( you heard the click )
[20:00:18] <tom3p> lemme get into the wayback machine and check ;)
[20:00:49] <toast> when i looked at the offerings for a Moore G-18 4 axis, it was as stated
[20:01:02] <toast> i don't know if they made other configurations, but it was quite clear in saying the machine had no control over Z
[20:08:47] <toast> which, really, i don't think is a huge issue considering the things one would use a jig grinder for
[20:14:47] <wlirc123> Hi. Is there a tcl interface to emc?
[20:20:44] <cradek> yes, several of our guis are written in tcl
[20:21:43] <wlirc123> Thanks
[20:21:51] <cradek> it was nothing
[20:22:38] <wlirc123> D)
[20:41:02] <tarzan__> cradek, wish?
[20:41:13] <cradek> what?
[20:45:31] <tarzan__> tcl wish the gui executor
[21:08:45] <archivist_emc> cradek, I think yes to the polar question, seems a good idea
[21:10:26] <cradek> archivist: ok thanks
[21:10:51] <archivist_emc> although I tend to use a rotary most often myself
[21:12:30] <cradek> hm, < is used for var names
[21:12:38] <cradek> I wonder if I screwed that up somehow
[21:13:20] <archivist_emc> I hate the < for var names with a vengeance
[21:13:36] <cradek> nevertheless I shouldn't break it :-)
[21:14:16] <cradek> with whitespace ignored, I don't know how you'd do variable names any other way
[21:15:26] <archivist_emc> erm like all the other languages :)
[22:48:47] <danimal_garage> cradek, do you run your HNC motor any faster than 60hz with your vfd? Seems from what i read that up to 120hz is usually ok for typical motors like this one.
[22:50:26] <danimal_garage> I was thinking of putting the vari speed unit around 3/4 speed, then make up the rest with the vfd frequency so i'll have more torque in the rpm range that i'd use most
[22:51:46] <danimal_garage> i'm going to try it on the mill first, especially since that vari speed drive sounds like crap when it's cranked all the way up.
[22:52:55] <eric_unterhausen> danimal_garage: should be ok, I think slower is worse than faster
[22:53:21] <eric_unterhausen> the vfd experts are all over on practical machinist
[22:53:29] <danimal_garage> thats what i was thinking, plus i wont really exceeding the rpm range of the spindle
[23:57:36] <frallzor> its no fun task sitting down, checking what you have spent/need to spend on a build
[23:57:43] <frallzor> quite depressing