#emc | Logs for 2009-12-16

[00:06:31] <ds3> Mmmm Ohare
[00:06:47] <ds3> which concourse?
[00:07:15] <SWPLinux> Terminal B, in the new Red Carpet Club (near the extension with gates B19-B22)
[00:07:36] <SWPLinux> err, Concourse B, terminal 2 that is
[00:12:25] <ds3> that's United on the main side w/o the tunnel right?
[00:13:08] <SWPLinux> yes
[00:13:26] <SWPLinux> also connected to the other terminals
[00:13:41] <SWPLinux> which reminds me that I probably still have time to head over to G gates for a Cinnabon :)
[00:13:47] <ds3> hahah
[00:13:58] <ds3> you know that airport too well :D
[00:14:02] <SWPLinux> indeed
[00:14:38] <SWPLinux> massage at H gates, cinnabon at G, various restaurants (including a new italian place I'll try next time)
[00:14:41] <ds3> ORD is one of the few airports I been to that I have never eatten at
[00:15:03] <SWPLinux> oh. there's actually good food here, unless you have major dietary restrictions
[00:15:59] <ds3> ORD is usually the destination or origin point for me so...
[00:16:21] <SWPLinux> I wonder if SVN will do the right thing if I ctrl-C out of it and checkout again once I get home
[00:16:25] <SWPLinux> ah
[00:16:31] <SWPLinux> almost always a through point for me
[00:16:40] <ds3> try it... what have you got to lose? ;)
[00:16:49] <SWPLinux> err - nothing I guess
[00:16:59] <SWPLinux> I'll wait until the last minute though :)
[00:17:09] <SWPLinux> oh - moot point, it's done
[00:17:19] <ds3> where are you headed?
[00:17:53] <SWPLinux> home (yay!)
[00:18:19] <SWPLinux> then I get to go back to Dallas in 3 weeks
[00:18:45] <SWPLinux> then LA, then LA again, then Dallas again, then LA again, and maybe a vacation and/or a trip to Buenos Aires for good measure
[00:19:02] <SWPLinux> and then ESC, some time in April (I think)
[00:19:14] <ds3> so you are single handedly propping up the airlines?
[00:19:18] <SWPLinux> I'm trying
[00:19:29] <SWPLinux> and the Hilton chain, customer-permitting :)
[00:20:21] <SWPLinux> I suppose I should mosy along. I've got to get to E gates for my flight
[00:20:27] <SWPLinux> see you
[00:20:36] <ds3> see ya
[00:21:26] <Valen> lol thats a lot of frequent flier miles
[00:21:47] <SWPLinux> 100k+ so far this year
[00:22:48] <Valen> what do you do again?
[00:22:53] <Valen> other than emc that is ;->
[00:23:45] <SWPLinux> travel
[00:23:48] <SWPLinux> see you :)
[00:23:50] <SWPLinux> thanks
[00:32:48] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:52:51] <jt-plasma> say Goodnight Gracie
[01:25:24] <Guest405> Hi, Anyone get a shuttle pro running under emc2?
[01:30:07] <Guest405> anyone, anyone
[01:30:44] <Guest405> Bueller
[01:30:45] <Guest405> Bueller
[01:31:31] <MattyMatt> this thing? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=shuttle+pro&oe=utf-8&rls=org.debian:en-GB:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2774478187259529816&ei=FDgoS-z6EZGd4QbSo5ywDQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBgQ8wIwAg#ps-sellers
[01:32:16] <Guest405> thats it
[01:32:43] <Guest405> working in mach3 but want to move over to emc2
[01:32:57] <danimal_garage> thanks awallin
[01:33:04] <danimal_garage> if you're still around
[01:33:11] <Guest405> stepping much better in emc2
[01:33:40] <danimal_garage> stepping works good for me in emc2
[01:33:57] <MattyMatt> does it act as a keyboard or HID in hardware? that's the only way it'll work in Linux w/o a driver
[01:34:32] <MattyMatt> otherwise you are at the mercy of the driver writer
[01:34:58] <Guest405> beleive so but no way to map the buttons without driver
[01:35:09] <Guest405> or some utility to do it
[01:35:29] <Guest405> mach has a simple VB app to do it
[01:35:33] <MattyMatt> maybe HAL can do it, I am no expert tho
[01:35:58] <MattyMatt> it can handle USB joysticks I believe
[01:36:12] <Valen> HAL can run an xbox controller ;->
[01:36:20] <Valen> I'm guessing it'll probably be a keyboard
[01:36:33] <MattyMatt> nope xbc is HID
[01:36:47] <Guest405> should not be a big lot of difference
[01:36:49] <MattyMatt> standard joystick protocol.
[01:37:22] <Valen> no I meant the thing in question will probably be a keyboard
[01:37:48] <MattyMatt> yeah, but that's a subclass of HID iirc
[01:37:49] <Valen> only thing is it'll probably send multimedia keys and linux will intercept those
[01:37:58] <MattyMatt> long time no look @ protocol
[01:38:03] <eric_unterhausen> I thought there were controllers like that in use w/emc2
[01:38:04] <Guest405> its pretty much a bunch of buttons and a dial
[01:39:27] <MattyMatt> here's a good time to be glad emc uses a standard distro, so if you DO need to hack the multimedia key handling, it's a repeatable procedure
[01:39:41] <ds3> MattyMatt: http://osdir.com/ml/linux.ubuntu.devel.ubuntu-studio/2008-02/msg00007.html
[01:39:43] <Valen> yup
[01:40:25] <Guest405> I am sure someone had tried it
[01:40:26] <MattyMatt> ds3 sweet
[01:40:34] <Guest405> its a pretty nice rig actually
[01:41:55] <MattyMatt> I want 3 jog wheels, for etch-a-sketching
[01:42:14] <MattyMatt> but I could live with one good one :)
[01:42:19] <Guest405> need a third hand then lol
[01:42:34] <eric_unterhausen> MattyMatt: third jog wheel with your nose?
[01:42:40] <MattyMatt> they don't call me a clever dick for nothing
[01:43:04] <Guest405> i was just about to go there
[01:43:09] <danimal_garage> awallini see you spent some time in san diego
[03:59:24] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[04:16:46] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[05:34:31] <Valen> anybody know what post processor to use for rhinocam?
[05:45:55] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLnN-hqgfxY&feature=player_embedded
[05:48:09] <Jymmm> http://vimeo.com/440842
[05:57:06] <Valen> guy has too much money
[07:58:47] <archivist_emc> micges_work, re book do you want to turn a taper or correct for taper
[07:59:24] <micges_work> oh you read it ;)
[07:59:38] <micges_work> yesterday here was flood
[07:59:45] <archivist_emc> I know
[08:00:32] <archivist_emc> I didnt expect to see that far in the scroll back this morning
[08:04:05] <micges_work> archivist_emc: what about book?
[08:05:35] <archivist_emc> micges_work, re book do you want to "turn a taper" making or "correct for taper" rectification
[08:06:37] <archivist_emc> or measure the lathes current taper
[08:12:01] <micges_work> I want make taper
[08:13:42] <archivist_emc> three methods if not cnc
[08:14:12] <archivist_emc> I have used two
[08:15:13] <archivist_emc> 1 offset tailstock ,2 use topslide, 3 taper turning attachment which is at back of the lathe
[08:15:31] <archivist_emc> I use 2 or 3
[08:15:41] <micges_work> archivist_emc: can we talk later, I must work now
[08:16:03] <archivist_emc> yes, I have to get my breakfast niow :)
[09:35:39] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaHi7WSc_po&feature=player_embedded
[09:35:46] <Valen> from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaHi7WSc_po&feature=player_embedded
[09:35:58] <Valen> is a bugatti vaeron
[09:38:31] <Valen> from http://thatwillbuffout.com/page/2/ rather
[09:44:49] <lilalinux> aloha
[09:45:53] <lilalinux> do you know, if a vacuum cleaner, that is suitable for asbestos dust, is suitable for carbon fibre and glas fibre dust, too?
[09:47:00] <Jymmm> Yo would need to know the micron particle size of those materials to determine that.
[09:47:50] <Valen> fiberglass dust is just a normal dust
[09:47:53] <Valen> as a rule
[09:48:05] <Valen> carbon fiber once its been processed is the same I believe
[09:49:02] <lilalinux> at least glas-fibre dust is carcinogenic
[09:49:17] <Valen> not so much to my understanding
[09:49:17] <lilalinux> classified as K2 (or even K3)
[09:49:20] <Valen> the other two can be
[09:49:26] <Valen> asbestos is by loads
[09:51:11] <lilalinux> what vacuums do you guys use?
[09:58:52] <lilalinux> you do use vacuum cleaners?
[09:59:48] <celeron55> well, i have an old household vacuum cleaner 8)
[10:01:43] <celeron55> also, i know a few guys who just use water when cutting carbon fiber
[10:02:00] <celeron55> (i've never cut that stuff)
[10:03:14] <archivist> for soot we use a 5 micron filter on our vacuum cleaner at the steam pumping station iirc
[10:05:30] <lilalinux> soot?
[10:06:27] <archivist> carbon particles
[10:06:55] <lilalinux> i see
[10:25:47] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:43:04] <maximilian_h> Hello Everybody, does somebody know if there is a hal pin to pause emc2 ? Something like the motion.enable IN bit, but not stopping but pausing ?
[11:00:03] <micges_work> maximilian_h: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//gui_halui.html#r1_2_14
[11:05:59] <maximilian_h> Hello Micges, thanks again! That answers my question perfectly!
[11:32:37] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[13:35:27] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[14:13:28] <SWPadnos> haha - my new favorite (or at least tied for favorite) SPAM subject line:
[14:14:16] <skunkworks> I like the one that says it is from the cdc saying you need to sign up for your h1n1 shot
[14:14:27] <SWPadnos> I haven't seen/noticed that
[14:15:04] <SWPadnos> the others I remember were "embiggen ur manhood" and "We're too laxy to think up a new subject line. Buy our drugs"
[14:15:08] <SWPadnos> err, lazy
[14:19:57] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, did you see my reply (that yes, you can stick a big PCI card in these cases)
[14:20:21] <skunkworks> yes - do you have a link to them?
[14:20:28] <skunkworks> Example
[14:20:34] <SWPadnos> one sec
[14:20:41] <SWPadnos> Example?
[14:20:53] <skunkworks> picture ;)
[14:21:05] <SWPadnos> oh. no pictures, but I could take one at some point
[14:21:12] <SWPadnos> http://www.mini-box.com/M300-LCD-Enclosure
[14:21:28] <Jymmm> * Jymmm shoots SWPadnos... CONFIRMED
[14:21:39] <SWPadnos> I ARE NOT DIED YET
[14:21:58] <Jymmm> I hope not, it was just a water gun
[14:22:07] <SWPadnos> I ARE DROUNDING
[14:22:43] <Jymmm> lol
[14:22:44] <eric_unterhausen> I thought we were all going to get one of those cases for Christmas
[14:22:53] <SWPadnos> I ARE NOT SANTA
[14:23:22] <eric_unterhausen> the new fad in spams is they send you a link and say "is this you?"
[14:23:56] <SWPadnos> clicky clicky
[14:24:00] <eric_unterhausen> If they would just write the emails in good english, I wonder if it wouldn't throw the filters off for a while
[14:24:10] <SWPadnos> yeah, I had thought about that
[14:24:23] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:24:26] <SWPadnos> some are pretty convincing, but the grammar and spelling errors are a big clue
[14:25:20] <archivist> grama and spling errors are to get past the spam filters
[14:25:38] <eric_unterhausen> they must have meetings on how to spam, some of the things they were doing 6 months ago seem to be gone
[14:25:52] <SWPadnos> there are templates that get circulated
[14:26:20] <SWPadnos> I only surmise this because I've gotten ones that had things similar to "{%PRODUCT}" in them
[14:26:26] <eric_unterhausen> haha
[14:26:40] <SWPadnos> mailmerge fail
[14:27:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: thats a neat case
[14:27:14] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, $35, with the LCD
[14:27:22] <SWPadnos> yeah, and I've got 14 of them cheap :)
[14:27:28] <eric_unterhausen> I usually only read the first line that gmail shows me
[14:27:42] <SWPadnos> those have been in the subject line
[14:28:04] <Jymmm> i have a tiny irc window
[14:28:16] <eric_unterhausen> sounds like a personal problem
[14:28:41] <archivist> you need some Vircagra
[14:29:04] <skunkworks> heh
[14:29:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I see the IR window in the front, do they come with the transceiver too?
[14:29:37] <SWPadnos> no remote control. I can check to see if the IR receiver is on the LCD carrier board
[14:30:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, no remote. But I already have a livingroom IR kybd/mouse
[14:32:21] <Jymmm> I love that PicoLCD too
[14:32:42] <SWPadnos> yeah, there are even Linux drivers
[14:32:53] <SWPadnos> though I never got around to making them display anything cool
[14:33:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: OH you have some of them?
[14:33:27] <SWPadnos> yeah, 14
[14:33:36] <SWPadnos> slightly used, and for sale cheap ($35)
[14:33:46] <eric_unterhausen> shipped?
[14:33:49] <Jymmm> slightly scratched up?
[14:34:05] <SWPadnos> eric_unterhausen, no, plus shipping
[14:34:21] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, some have slight blemishes
[14:34:33] <SWPadnos> they all have velcro strips on the bottom, and a sticker on tho
[14:34:36] <SWPadnos> top
[14:34:41] <Jymmm> heh
[14:34:56] <SWPadnos> it says something like "TRUSS5 EZ495CB002"
[14:35:52] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[14:36:02] <SWPadnos> oh, and there's a CF card reader in there too
[14:36:29] <Dave911> SWPadnos: You have some for sale for $35?
[14:36:31] <Dave911> Is there a way to mount these on a panel ala the M350 has L brackets available?
[14:36:48] <SWPadnos> err - there's velcro on the bottom ;)
[14:37:09] <SWPadnos> oh, and there's a PCI riser card that holds a PCI card horizontally above the motherboard
[14:37:24] <SWPadnos> and Mesa cards fit - I've tried a 5i20 and 5i22
[14:37:29] <SWPadnos> (one at a time)
[14:37:40] <Dave911> How many do you have for sale?
[14:37:50] <SWPadnos> err - about 10 now :)
[14:38:15] <Dave911> I'll take 3 I think.... Let me check one thing
[14:38:27] <SWPadnos> cool
[14:39:35] <SWPadnos> yes, there is an IR receiver on it
[14:39:46] <Jymmm> oh, nice
[14:39:49] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how to connect it up or get any drivers to recognize it
[14:39:50] <Dave911> How does the LCD work... what does it do?
[14:40:00] <Jymmm> lol
[14:40:03] <SWPadnos> it's USB-connected, along with the keypad
[14:40:29] <SWPadnos> there are drivers, and even a couple of packages for Ubuntu that will drive it
[14:40:35] <SWPadnos> lcdproc is one, I think
[14:40:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Pico ITX + Pico LCD
[14:40:50] <Jymmm> LIRC
[14:41:11] <SWPadnos> also, there's an EMCLCD module that shows some stuff on an "embedded" EMC machine on an LCD
[14:41:18] <SWPadnos> though I don't know the specifics of that
[14:41:24] <SWPadnos> (haven't looked in a while
[14:41:26] <SWPadnos> )
[14:41:38] <Jymmm> it has a kybd too?
[14:41:57] <SWPadnos> yeah
[14:42:14] <SWPadnos> 5 function keys, a directional pad with enter, and +/- keys (just like in the picture)
[14:42:27] <SWPadnos> and of course the power button, but that's just the power button
[14:42:36] <Jymmm> but uses the PicoLCD instead of the 2x20 LCD
[14:42:46] <SWPadnos> it's the 2x20
[14:43:09] <Jymmm> OH, I thought it was this.... http://www.mini-box.com/picoLCD-256x64-OEM
[14:43:17] <SWPadnos> http://www.mini-box.com/picoLCD-20x2-OEM
[14:43:40] <SWPadnos> plus the keypad
[14:44:40] <Jymmm> I thought you were selling the 264x64 LCD
[14:45:01] <SWPadnos> nope
[14:45:03] <Jymmm> I thought that would make the worlds smallest serial terminal
[14:45:18] <SWPadnos> but for an extra $75, I'll throw one in
[14:45:22] <Jymmm> lol
[14:46:33] <Dave911> SWPadnos: How can you get the 5I20 ribbon cables out of the box?
[14:46:51] <SWPadnos> same way you do it in a regular PC - there's an opening in the slot cover
[14:47:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I better say no thanks then, I just won three auctions I have to pay for =)
[14:47:15] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:47:35] <Dave911> If the 5I20 takes up one slot.. is there another slot to get the cables out of?
[14:48:03] <SWPadnos> no, there's an opening in the 5i20 slot cover that's sufficient to get 3 cables out
[14:48:10] <SWPadnos> you don't need a second slot
[14:48:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: dont know if you care or not... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390132116992
[14:49:45] <Dave911> Oh, I didn't know that.... I was thinking I had to find a box with two slots - one for the 5I20 and one for the cables ....
[14:49:46] <SWPadnos> interesting, but not very interesting. that's a linear regulator, so it's going to get very very hot
[14:49:50] <SWPadnos> nope
[14:50:15] <Dave911> How can they make that stuff that cheap? Even with near free labor?
[14:50:26] <SWPadnos> make what?
[14:50:49] <Dave911> The power supply regulator .. sorry for the context switch....
[14:50:51] <SWPadnos> I have a bunch of these cases that were used for a particular job, but were then replaced with custom-machined enclosures
[14:50:52] <SWPadnos> oh
[14:51:21] <SWPadnos> the parts are pretty cheap, and when you pay someone $0.25 to assemble it, the labor is too
[14:51:33] <Dave911> You have me on the hook for 3 of those cases at the moment... the questions is should I buy more ...
[14:51:41] <SWPadnos> heh, ok :)
[14:51:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, I guess I"ll found out soon enough =) I thought it might be good to test some various voltage LED's with from a 9v battery
[14:51:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you're selling the enclosures too?
[14:52:12] <SWPadnos> yes, up to 14 of them
[14:52:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: for $35?
[14:52:22] <SWPadnos> yes
[14:52:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: PS ?
[14:52:29] <SWPadnos> no
[14:52:43] <Jymmm> ah
[14:52:46] <SWPadnos> picoPSU is cheap, as is a mini-ITX atom board
[15:00:23] <Dave911> SWPadnos: Drop me an email at DaveCole at Netscape.com so I can get some $ to you ... I'm still pondering if I want more than 3
[15:00:37] <SWPadnos> ok
[15:00:59] <Jymmm> you work for AOL ?
[15:02:04] <Jymmm> Dave911: you work for aol?
[15:06:25] <Dave911> Aol? Nope.
[15:06:35] <Dave911> Why do you ask?
[15:06:50] <Jymmm> Dave911: Netscape Inc was bought by AOL
[15:07:26] <Dave911> Oh yeah .... but you can still get a Netscape.com email address .... I think. I've had it for a few years....
[15:07:42] <Jymmm> but they were netscape.net iirc
[15:07:47] <Jymmm> not netscape.com
[15:11:32] <Dave911> This is how I get to my account ..... didn't realize the .net vs .com thing.... I don't think that Netscape is promoting their ISP service much any longer
[15:11:34] <Dave911> http://isp.netscape.com/
[15:47:06] <skunkworks> the new thunderbird looks kinda neat
[16:02:49] <SWPadnos> picoPSU fits nicely
[16:03:15] <Valen> they really are stupidly expensive for whats in them
[16:03:33] <SWPadnos> the M300 cases?
[16:03:35] <Valen> no the picopsus
[16:03:35] <SWPadnos> ah
[16:03:36] <SWPadnos> well, they do work, and they're tiny and efficient
[16:03:36] <Valen> i mean its mainly 2 or 3 switchmode regulators
[16:03:36] <Valen> should cost $5 or so
[16:03:38] <dan1mal_garage> hi guys
[16:03:38] <eric_unterhausen> it's actually a computer
[16:03:38] <SWPadnos> add connectors and wires, and the PCB, and you'll be above that
[16:03:38] <Jymmm> Valen: then you can build one easily =)
[16:03:39] <Valen> I'll have to look at where I could actually use one first, but I have 4x mini-itx boards around
[16:03:39] <eric_unterhausen> I think they have an AVR on them, but it's been a while
[16:03:40] <eric_unterhausen> SWPadnos, you take paypal?
[16:03:41] <Valen> eric_unterhausen: didn't see any on the pictures, but even so, they cost around 25 cents in quantity
[16:03:41] <Jymmm> http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.417/.f?sc=8&category=13
[16:03:42] <SWPadnos> eric_unterhausen, yes
[16:03:42] <Valen> hell I can buy a mains powered 600W power supply for the same price, with all sorts of widgets in it
[16:04:01] <SWPadnos> that's not as small, doesn't run from DC, and is not as efficient
[16:04:05] <SWPadnos> clearly different markets
[16:04:14] <dan1mal_garage> probably a bit of a stupid question... but i got my home switches connected and i have hal and ini set up for them according to the instructions in the wiki, but how do i actually get it to search for home?
[16:04:14] <Valen> point is the ATX supply is much harder
[16:04:16] <celeron55> and probably doesn't even last as long
[16:04:29] <Jymmm> Valen: AWESOME! Wehn you build those micro $5 PS, I'll take four of them.
[16:04:48] <Valen> I was presuming that there would be a made in china sticker on the $5 ones
[16:04:52] <eric_unterhausen> I have to admit plugging one of those picopsu into a $1500 computer was a bit of a scary moment
[16:04:56] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:05:17] <SWPadnos> I haven't run anything that big from one, since I like high end graphics in my "real" computers
[16:05:19] <Valen> what sort of hardware that costs $1500 could one of those power?
[16:05:22] <eric_unterhausen> the control is more sophisticated than a regular psu
[16:05:37] <Valen> its a buck converter, at lower power its easier
[16:05:38] <eric_unterhausen> Valen, the industrial pcs are not cheap
[16:05:44] <Valen> ahh
[16:05:48] <eric_unterhausen> not that they are worth it or anything
[16:05:51] <SWPadnos> yeah - making it small means that the controls have to be "tighter" - there isn't as much room for bulk energy storage and the like
[16:05:54] <eric_unterhausen> but they have you by the short hairs
[16:20:14] <Valen> got some dodgy cpu fans on them too, so I'm going to water cool it
[16:20:14] <dan1mal_garage> can anyone help me with my homing issue?
[16:20:15] <Valen> no, we are talking computers ;->
[16:20:15] <dan1mal_garage> haha
[16:20:17] <SWPadnos> what is your homing issue?
[16:20:18] <dan1mal_garage> it's probably a simple one but i cant seem to find the answer.... i got my home switches hooked up and it appears to be configured correctly in hal and ini, but how do i actually get it to search for home?
[16:20:19] <SWPadnos> check the help for the key to press - I'm not sure
[16:20:23] <SWPadnos> (but I'm betting it's the "HOME" key :) )
[16:20:24] <dan1mal_garage> that just homes it where it is
[16:20:51] <SWPadnos> then homing isn't set up right in the HAL/ini files
[16:20:59] <dan1mal_garage> hmmm
[16:21:15] <dan1mal_garage> i have another issue that might be related, when i start emc, it gives me an error that the coolant cant turn on untill i turn the machine on
[16:21:16] <SWPadnos> uh - OK
[16:21:16] <SWPadnos> no idea about that one
[16:21:16] <dan1mal_garage> now i know for a fact that the coolant button isnt depressed so it should be an open circuit
[16:21:22] <dan1mal_garage> i think i have a parameter wrong somewhere
[16:22:00] <dan1mal_garage> hold on, i'm putting my hal on pastebin
[16:22:30] <SWPadnos> the coolant message sounds like it comes from task, telling you that it can't respond to an interpreter command to tun on coolant
[16:22:43] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't have anything to do with the actual buttons/relays that control coolant
[16:24:29] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, Sorry for the delay in updating you -- wanted to get confirmation from sponsors about the actual issue, we are indeed still experiencing heavy DDoS and our upstream providers are working to curb it at the borders were possible. Further info will be via wallops. Thank you.
[16:25:48] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[16:27:54] <dan1mal_garage> i agree, but i dont know why it would be getting a command
[16:28:32] <SWPadnos> RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODES ?
[16:29:52] <dan1mal_garage> http://pastebin.com/d3c3068c7
[16:42:03] <geo01005> >Anybody here familiar with how knurled V groove wire feed welding drive rolls are made?
[16:42:39] <dan1mal_garage> thanks, i'll do some more reading
[16:42:40] <bill20r3> if anyone here has had success milling plexiglass, what's the secret?
[16:42:52] <dan1mal_garage> they probably use a special knurl geo01005
[16:42:53] <bill20r3> I'd imagine there's a v-shaped knurl, but I've never seen one.
[16:43:10] <dan1mal_garage> bill, what's the problem?
[16:43:39] <geo01005> I've been looking for a v shaped knurling tool, but haven't found one yet.
[16:43:48] <bill20r3> dan1mal, it just melts and gums up on the bit, I cant figure out if it's the wrong speed/feed, or what.
[16:44:04] <dan1mal_garage> sounds like it bill20r3
[16:44:05] <bill20r3> I was testing with a 2-flute 1/8" bit.
[16:44:20] <dan1mal_garage> pocketing/slotting?
[16:44:22] <bill20r3> I think it needs active cooling of some kind.
[16:44:48] <bill20r3> milling some shapes out of 1/8" sheet (well, trying to.)
[16:45:08] <dan1mal_garage> so the cutter is burried, basically?
[16:45:08] <JT-Work> bill20r3: slow rpm down
[16:45:43] <dan1mal_garage> compressed air works great with plastic
[16:45:48] <bill20r3> well, I was only taking like .5mm bites.
[16:46:10] <dan1mal_garage> whats your speed/feed?
[16:46:13] <JT-Work> bill20r3: if your feed is too slow the heat builds up and melts the plastic
[16:46:13] <bill20r3> the spindle is a bosch router, running as slow as it can, which is still like 1600rpm.
[16:46:33] <dan1mal_garage> 1600 is fine for 1/8"
[16:46:59] <bill20r3> JT, yeah, that's what's happening. Maybe I'll try a stream of compressed air pointed at the bit.
[16:47:04] <dan1mal_garage> sounds like you need to take a heavier cut
[16:47:05] <dan1mal_garage> faster feed i mean
[16:47:27] <bill20r3> both, I suspect.
[16:47:33] <JT-Work> yep both
[16:47:50] <Valen> plastic you want a "sharp" bit too often
[16:47:50] <bill20r3> sounds like there isn't some secret I'm missing, but that it's just a difficult material to mill.
[16:47:56] <dan1mal_garage> you should be able to cut through that pretty fast
[16:48:06] <Valen> you want to cut like a knife not like steel
[16:48:12] <bill20r3> gotcha.
[16:48:18] <JT-Work> you can take small depth of cut but the feed needs to be fast
[16:48:42] <bill20r3> and that's so the bit is never in one place long enough for the material to heat up?
[16:49:04] <Valen> that does depend on the plastic too btw
[16:49:16] <Valen> you use the sharp cutter on soft ones
[16:49:33] <Valen> soft ones cut badly as a rule ;->
[16:50:23] <dan1mal_garage> correct bill20r3
[16:50:34] <dan1mal_garage> you want it to cut, not rub
[16:50:57] <bill20r3> Ok, that's useful info, I'll give it another round of testing tonight.
[16:50:59] <dan1mal_garage> if you feed too slow, the tool just rubs on the plastic, causing heat
[16:51:13] <Valen> (not helped by most metal cutting bits)
[16:51:23] <Valen> if you have a wood bit give that a try perhaps
[16:51:42] <bill20r3> Maybe I can find a one-flute bit.
[16:51:43] <archivist> sharpness matters
[16:51:55] <dan1mal_garage> you also want the cutter to not load up with chips, hence the use of compressed air to clean it out
[16:52:06] <bill20r3> or get an old 2-flute, and grind one of them off. (because I'm ghetto like that)
[16:52:08] <dan1mal_garage> 2 flute should work fine
[16:52:25] <bill20r3> I think air will help a lot.
[16:52:32] <dan1mal_garage> i've used 4 flute successfully
[16:52:50] <bill20r3> in 1/8", or thicker?
[16:53:31] <bill20r3> nevermind, I guess the depth-of-cut is a more relevant number than the total thickness.
[16:53:53] <dan1mal_garage> yea
[16:53:56] <dan1mal_garage> 1/8" is thin
[16:54:11] <Valen> if your not cutting air wont work to cool it
[16:54:27] <Valen> you should be able to take a pretty deep cut in plastic
[16:54:33] <Valen> (like 5-10mm)
[16:54:37] <Valen> anyway bed time for I
[16:54:39] <Valen> night all
[16:54:41] <bill20r3> g'nite.
[16:55:06] <dan1mal_garage> well with a 1/8" endmill, i wouldnt push it too hard
[16:55:07] <dan1mal_garage> nite
[16:55:13] <Valen> dont know how big a 1/8th end mill is lol
[16:55:22] <dan1mal_garage> .125"
[16:55:26] <dan1mal_garage> 3mm
[16:55:31] <dan1mal_garage> approx
[16:55:34] <Valen> ahh thats pretty small
[16:55:44] <dan1mal_garage> thats what she said
[16:55:57] <Valen> thats enough you!
[16:56:03] <dan1mal_garage> zing!
[17:01:03] <JT-Work> bill20r3: http://www.piedmontplastics.com/static/literature/Acrylite%20FF%20Fabrication%20Machining%20Tech%20Brief%2011.pdf
[17:01:26] <bill20r3> excellent!
[17:01:28] <bill20r3> thanks.
[17:06:54] <christel> [Server Notice] Hi all, the server you are connected to (orwell) will be going down shortly, you may wish to connect to a different server by connecting to chat.freenode.net
[17:10:05] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[17:10:10] <Jon_geo01005> Jon_geo01005 is now known as geo01005
[17:12:50] <dan1mal_garage> SWPadnos, you're right, i cannot use .invert_output
[17:13:12] <SWPadnos> well, you can, but it doesn't affect inputs
[17:19:40] <dan1mal_garage> right thats what i ment
[17:20:06] <dan1mal_garage> hmm home still isnt working
[17:22:13] <SWPadnos> you didn't pastebin your ini file
[17:22:56] <dan1mal_garage> true, hold on i'll do it
[17:24:40] <dan1mal_garage> http://pastebin.com/d2f7dec65
[17:26:17] <SWPadnos> all of your homing settings are commented out, so EMC doesn't know how to look for your switches
[17:27:16] <dan1mal_garage> omg i'm an idioty
[17:27:19] <dan1mal_garage> -y
[17:27:31] <dan1mal_garage> haha
[17:27:34] <dan1mal_garage> wow
[17:27:51] <dan1mal_garage> thanks
[17:28:33] <dan1mal_garage> i didnt even notice that they were commented out
[17:30:05] <micges> dan1mal_garage: on such large hal file you should do some grouping, easier to find bugs
[17:30:36] <dan1mal_garage> yea, i've been meaning to organize it a bit
[17:37:21] <skunkworks> hmm 10 seconds to copy 1gb file from esata softraid to sata harddrive (onboard sata conroller) and 15 seconds to copy back (raid 5) this is the atom board with a pci esata controller.
[17:37:35] <skunkworks> 1gB
[17:38:13] <skunkworks> makes sense anyways - raid 5 takes longer to write than read
[17:51:54] <dan1mal_garage> yay i got home switches
[18:15:06] <dan1mal_garage> thanks for the help SWPadnos, it works great now
[18:15:25] <SWPadnos> great, glad you got it working
[18:15:50] <SWPadnos> re: the coolant thing - I think the setup where you use a not to make one or the other halui input turn on won't work
[18:16:02] <SWPadnos> or it will always give you that error at startup
[18:16:25] <SWPadnos> the problem is that there will always be a command of some sort to halui - either to turn coolant on or turn it off
[18:16:37] <SWPadnos> neither is allowed unless the machine is turned on
[18:16:45] <dan1mal_garage> gotcha
[18:17:16] <dan1mal_garage> i got that stuff from the wiki, i just copy and pasted
[18:17:41] <dan1mal_garage> i'll have to figure out another way if the error bothers me after a while
[18:17:47] <SWPadnos> never copy/paste. always think first
[18:18:23] <dan1mal_garage> half of this stuff is still greek to me
[18:19:03] <dan1mal_garage> i'm learning though, slowly but steadily
[18:19:18] <SWPadnos> that's how progress is made
[18:19:53] <dan1mal_garage> it's hard for me to learn by studying, i always work best with trial and error
[18:20:05] <dan1mal_garage> hands on
[18:20:49] <dan1mal_garage> i guess that's part of the reason why i'm a machinist
[18:20:59] <dan1mal_garage> and not a software engineer
[18:23:07] <archivist_> archivist_ is now known as archivist_emc
[18:47:30] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[19:04:01] <skunkworks> looks like 60MB/second for writing - bit faster for reading
[19:16:42] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[19:35:15] <eric_unterhausen> does paypal even let you use a credit card any more?
[19:35:27] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:35:48] <SWPadnos> at least they did last week
[19:36:07] <eric_unterhausen> I remember having some problems recently, but I think I was trying to ship something
[19:36:35] <SWPadnos> it's never been made easy to use a credit card - you always have to select the payment source
[19:36:52] <SWPadnos> I've never been able to set the default to my credit card anyway
[19:37:03] <eric_unterhausen> I think that's right
[19:39:15] <eric_unterhausen> every 3 days, the guy with the cheapest price for lathe toolholders switches from selling them individually to selling them in sets of 3
[19:39:55] <SWPadnos> strange
[19:40:32] <eric_unterhausen> he's half price of everyone else though
[19:40:57] <SWPadnos> and hopefully at least half as good
[19:41:12] <eric_unterhausen> it's all Chinese junk
[19:41:23] <eric_unterhausen> ok at best
[19:41:55] <SWPadnos> argh. I can't find a hand drill (mandrel?) at mcmaster
[19:42:07] <eric_unterhausen> chuck?
[19:42:28] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what to call it - I'm looking for something that I can use to drill out holes by hand
[19:42:31] <SWPadnos> yeah, sort of
[19:42:39] <eric_unterhausen> like the precision ones?
[19:42:52] <SWPadnos> I just need to clean up some holes, and it's a PITA to hold the drill itself in my fingers
[19:43:01] <eric_unterhausen> small drills?
[19:43:02] <SWPadnos> and mt R-8 chuck is a bit large for this job
[19:43:05] <SWPadnos> s/mt/my/
[19:43:06] <jmkasunich> so you want a drill chuck that isn't mounted to any machine
[19:43:07] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:43:08] <MattyMatt> pin vice
[19:43:11] <SWPadnos> yeah, kind of
[19:43:21] <SWPadnos> err, kind of to jmkasunich
[19:43:26] <SWPadnos> (hi jmkasunich)
[19:43:27] <eric_unterhausen> MattyMatt saves me from trying to think of what a pin vice is called
[19:43:29] <jmkasunich> what size range?
[19:43:38] <SWPadnos> <2mm
[19:43:45] <SWPadnos> 1.5-2.2
[19:43:45] <eric_unterhausen> get a pin vice then
[19:44:13] <MattyMatt> what's the kind with an archimedes screw called?
[19:44:15] <SWPadnos> ah ha - yes, that's what I'm looking for
[19:44:18] <SWPadnos> thanks
[19:44:43] <eric_unterhausen> leave it to mcmaster to have every kind of pin vice ever invented
[19:44:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:45:00] <SWPadnos> if only it could read my mind and tell me the right name for whatever it is I'm looking for
[19:45:05] <jmkasunich> heh
[19:45:12] <eric_unterhausen> I never would have thought that there could be a 14 piece set of pin vises
[19:45:16] <jepler> it should let you sketch in a picture
[19:45:30] <jepler> or upload a photograph
[19:45:34] <SWPadnos> yeah
[19:45:51] <MattyMatt> there's a game on DS that does that. no specialised engineering catalogs in it yet tho
[19:45:52] <SWPadnos> or select multiple other things and say "I want a combination of these"
[19:46:16] <jmkasunich> I wonder if google image search will ever let you upload images and say "find images like this one"
[19:46:38] <eric_unterhausen> I was wondering if searching for chuck would do it, but it doesn't look like it
[19:47:01] <MattyMatt> it'll be pin viSe in us?
[19:47:09] <eric_unterhausen> jmkasunich: I have seen that with flikr
[19:47:11] <SWPadnos> no, I looked for chucks, hand drills, reamers, drills, mandrels, and probable something elsr
[19:47:13] <SWPadnos> else
[19:47:17] <SWPadnos> yes, it's a vise
[19:47:26] <SWPadnos> a vice is something you should probably quit
[19:47:45] <MattyMatt> depends whether your knackers are caught in it or not
[19:48:51] <eric_unterhausen> one thing paypal did was screw up their verified address database
[19:48:54] <eric_unterhausen> rather annoying
[19:49:14] <eric_unterhausen> it tells me to chose between 3 identical addresses
[19:50:47] <SWPadnos> oh huh. I think I've seen that too
[19:51:33] <archivist_emc> http://www.proopsbrothers.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Vices_34.html
[19:52:37] <SWPadnos> I thought that said "poops brothers" at first
[19:54:41] <andypugh> I am of the opinion that the thing you hold stuff in is a "vice" and no amount of USA-ian miss-spelling will change that fact.
[19:55:27] <SWPadnos> that's Mr spelling to you
[19:56:02] <archivist_emc> yanks have been speeling challenged for a while
[19:56:13] <SWPadnos> it's all Webster's fault
[19:56:15] <eric_unterhausen> I used to work with people that used the word "vice" to mean versus
[19:56:21] <eric_unterhausen> drove me nuts
[19:56:22] <archivist_emc> and Dewey
[19:56:52] <eric_unterhausen> this talk about spelling coming from people that live in a country where misspelling is an art
[19:57:12] <andypugh> Oh, and the drill with an archimedes screw in it is called an Archimedean Drill.
[19:57:13] <andypugh> http://www.amazon.com/Spiral-Hand-Drill-w-Spring/dp/B000BRFGGK
[19:57:31] <archivist_emc> the dictionary follows use it does not prescribe use
[19:57:42] <SWPadnos> shouldn't be that way
[19:57:57] <eric_unterhausen> andypugh: you talking about a Yankee drill?
[19:58:00] <SWPadnos> but since the language changes when enough people mis-use it, it ends up that way
[19:58:16] <andypugh> I thought someone else was...
[19:58:21] <archivist_emc> SWPadnos, no dictionaries are a recent invention
[19:58:26] <MattyMatt> we use Yankee screwdrivers
[19:58:27] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, I expect that chamois will never be spelled correctly again
[19:58:29] <SWPadnos> 1800's
[19:59:16] <MattyMatt> the drills were invented before yankees though :)
[19:59:22] <andypugh> Presumably the correct spelling is how the goats spell it, and they aren't telling.
[20:00:03] <eric_unterhausen> I know, I was just pulling your chain
[20:00:35] <MattyMatt> this place is bloody good -> http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16499
[20:01:05] <MattyMatt> what's the silver thing at the bottom? a long spindle extension?
[20:01:30] <MattyMatt> that'd improve the runout if it has bearings
[20:01:34] <archivist_emc> stand
[20:01:43] <andypugh> Looks like a telescopic stand to me.
[20:02:08] <andypugh> Dangle the tool on that when using the flexible extension
[20:02:32] <SWPadnos> it's shown on the bottom left of the picture on the case
[20:02:36] <MattyMatt> ah right. anyway it looks like the same quality as my one otherwise
[20:03:01] <eric_unterhausen> last dremel I bought cost $35, but lasted less than one job
[20:03:31] <MattyMatt> yeah it's not heavy duty :)
[20:03:45] <MattyMatt> the $70 ones still look plastic tho
[20:04:04] <SWPadnos> I've got a Dremel Pro which has been working fine for 7 or 8 years
[20:04:07] <eric_unterhausen> I thought it was a good price until smoke emitted
[20:04:24] <SWPadnos> electronic speed control even, 5k-35k I think
[20:04:31] <eric_unterhausen> so was mine
[20:04:34] <MattyMatt> mine was just a dry joint :) fixed
[20:04:58] <eric_unterhausen> MattyMatt: on a dremel?
[20:05:13] <MattyMatt> yep on the mains input
[20:05:23] <andypugh> Samuel Johnson published his dictionary in 1755 according to Wiki, but there were earlier ones.
[20:05:38] <eric_unterhausen> I think I wiped out a commutator bar on mine, it works sometimes
[20:05:51] <SWPadnos> yep - apparently they were called "spellers" before they were called "dictionaries"
[20:06:11] <SWPadnos> Webster made one in the late 1700's, and his first dictionary was in 1806
[20:06:22] <MattyMatt> sounds like the commutator is a weak point. archivist had one fly apart
[20:06:35] <SWPadnos> with spellings specifically modified so as to be distinct from those used in England
[20:06:35] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[20:06:48] <eric_unterhausen> especially since you hold them by the commutator
[20:07:12] <archivist_emc> it did not come through the case
[20:07:13] <SWPadnos> funny - that's what my mother used to say
[20:07:22] <SWPadnos> "if I get my hands on your commutator ..."
[20:07:31] <archivist_emc> was flat out full speed though
[20:08:03] <eric_unterhausen> they went through a low period where there was one less bearing than they needed to have
[20:08:04] <jmkasunich> flying commutators reminds me of a story from where I used to work
[20:08:20] <jmkasunich> drive malfunction resulted in overspeeding a 300HP DC motor
[20:08:34] <SWPadnos> oops
[20:09:02] <jmkasunich> commutator parts dug pits in the concrete floor where moments earlier people were standing
[20:09:03] <eric_unterhausen> was that a flying commutator, or a bouncing, rolling commutator?
[20:09:24] <SWPadnos> sounds like an exploding commutator
[20:09:29] <jmkasunich> pretty much
[20:09:42] <eric_unterhausen> in the aircraft turbine bidness, it's said that "parts were liberated"
[20:09:49] <jmkasunich> heh
[20:10:04] <jmkasunich> when the armature came apart, it jammed solid against the field poles
[20:10:05] <archivist_emc> supposed to be contained :)
[20:10:08] <SWPadnos> I'm free! I'm free! oof
[20:10:15] <jmkasunich> the sudden stop is what made the comm bars go flying
[20:10:28] <jmkasunich> the inertia of the large gear on the output shaft almost sheared the key
[20:10:52] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, liberating parts means the engine doesn't meet spec on manned aircraft
[20:11:10] <jmkasunich> the tech who experienced it kept the key - I saw it. 5/8" square x 3" long, sheared almost in half the long wauy
[20:11:23] <eric_unterhausen> scary
[20:12:29] <jmkasunich> this was aircraft ground support equipment - generator testor
[20:12:33] <jmkasunich> tester
[20:12:48] <jmkasunich> the motor output was geared up to ~24K rpm
[20:13:35] <archivist_emc> a bit of stored energy there :)
[20:18:15] <MattyMatt> so my idea of running a 3k rpm generator at 60krpm to get 1000Hz for an induction furnace, isn't a good idea?
[20:18:40] <jmkasunich> not so much
[20:19:12] <MattyMatt> mind you the alternative seems to be water cooled stacks of capacitors
[20:19:21] <MattyMatt> that doesn't look too clever either
[20:19:33] <jmkasunich> how much power do you need?
[20:20:18] <andypugh> MattyMatt: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms/Elec_IndHeat1.html
[20:20:44] <MattyMatt> yep 2nd photo on page 7
[20:21:55] <MattyMatt> I originally thought an arc-welder could be jiggered to melt a small pot of iron, but it looks a bit more fiendish than that :)
[20:22:06] <andypugh> The capacitors aren't water-cooled really, that is just an easy way to connect to the water-cooled induction coil.
[20:22:58] <andypugh> I bought all the parts to copy that project, then ran out of time and had the parts made by a brassfounders in Sheffield.
[20:22:58] <andypugh> \
[20:23:20] <MattyMatt> it works?
[20:23:52] <andypugh> Paying a foundry to cast the parts? Works every time.
[20:24:15] <MattyMatt> I mean the furnace, does it melt iron?
[20:24:23] <andypugh> My induction furnace is a cardboard box of components.
[20:24:53] <MattyMatt> ah, I see :) I thought you got the foundry to make the parts for your furnace
[20:25:06] <andypugh> I suspect that you are looking at induction as you don't have a back garden for a gas burner?
[20:25:30] <MattyMatt> it's just altogether neater and more modern, especially for steel
[20:25:45] <andypugh> Yes, but seems to be a lot harder.
[20:25:47] <andypugh> http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/index.html
[20:26:13] <MattyMatt> yep I read that entire site 3 times now
[20:27:03] <andypugh> Casting steel is difficult even for pros.
[20:27:28] <ds3> hmmm a simple induction heater.... now to make some heat shrink on EM holders
[20:27:28] <andypugh> Having parts cast in iron commercially is surprisingly inexpensive.
[20:27:34] <MattyMatt> induction is how my moon lander will make metal too :)
[20:28:06] <MattyMatt> so gotta get some practice
[20:28:37] <MattyMatt> yeah there's a foundry in town apparently
[20:30:44] <andypugh> Read up on pattern-making, that is where the majority of the expense is.
[20:32:12] <archivist_emc> pattern making http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv10.php?srcdata=title&srcprog=searchv10.php&searchv4page=1&errlev=0&searchstr=bk170
[20:44:56] <MattyMatt> yeah my machine is built for pattern making :)
[20:45:17] <MattyMatt> very high Z for lost foam etc
[20:45:48] <MattyMatt> it's 300mm now, but I'll probably still mount it to use the stiffest 200mm
[21:11:02] <dan1mal_garage> thank god, the garage warmed up
[21:12:38] <dan1mal_garage> i hate the cold
[21:14:49] <archivist_emc> indoors is too effing cold here
[21:17:35] <dan1mal_garage> where is here
[21:17:53] <archivist_emc> UK no central heating
[21:18:00] <dan1mal_garage> oh
[21:18:56] <dan1mal_garage> i'm in southern california so i guess i really shouldnt complain, but since it's usually warm here, there isnt much for heaters in the houses so when it gets cold, it sucks
[21:19:43] <archivist_emc> I have a broken leaky gas pipe so its cut off
[21:19:51] <dan1mal_garage> ouch!
[21:21:18] <dan1mal_garage> i could run heat into the garage, i do have a duct right on the other side of the wall that i can tap into
[21:21:28] <dan1mal_garage> hmmm
[21:34:58] <MattyMatt> cheapo hand encoders for americans -> http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16267
[21:35:43] <MattyMatt> I wish I had a US address and $100 to spend at that place :) 8"x4" double sided copper clad for $0.49
[21:36:32] <MattyMatt> that's cheap enough to make boxes out of
[21:37:42] <MattyMatt> I presume "15 pulses per rev" really means 30 quadrature changes
[21:40:18] <MattyMatt> most of my family moved to N America over the last 200 years. I'm in the only branch that stayed
[21:41:09] <MattyMatt> There's Gormans in Florida and Goodhands in W Canada
[21:42:37] <MattyMatt> Oh well, we're beginning to fix Europe now. Spain will be better than California, just watch :)
[21:42:57] <dan1mal_garage> well it would be hard to be worse
[21:43:21] <dan1mal_garage> i wanna get out of here
[21:43:53] <toast_> does anybody know of any valves that can be electronically controlled that are fairly tiny - could go on like a 1/8th inch or smaller hose
[21:44:01] <MattyMatt> you can choose your climate, without a passport. That's America's real strength
[21:44:26] <dan1mal_garage> i can choose my climate within 150 miles
[21:44:44] <dan1mal_garage> actually i can drive 50 miles and be in snow
[21:44:48] <MattyMatt> That's California's weirdness :)
[21:45:14] <dan1mal_garage> i can go snowboarding, surfing, and mountainbiking all in the same day
[21:45:16] <MattyMatt> you can do that in Croatia too, so we got that covered
[21:45:33] <MattyMatt> once we get Croatia in
[21:45:49] <dan1mal_garage> toast, there's tons of selanoid valves out there, i dont know about small though
[21:46:06] <MattyMatt> N Italy too. Matterhorn isn't too far from Nice
[21:46:16] <dan1mal_garage> i'd love to go to europe
[21:46:17] <toast_> dan1mal_garage, I don't know if that is what I'd be looking for, probably is though
[21:46:38] <MattyMatt> toast what fluid?
[21:46:38] <toast_> this would be to control paint mixing
[21:46:41] <dan1mal_garage> toast, most operate off of 12 or 24v
[21:46:47] <toast_> very thin paint though, acrylic at the consistency of milk
[21:46:58] <toast_> for an airbrush
[21:47:11] <MattyMatt> ah so brass would suffice?
[21:47:12] <dan1mal_garage> oh, well they might leak if they get dried up paint in them
[21:47:14] <toast_> but the airbrush is manually controlled - so the valves won't know when to start firing
[21:47:30] <toast_> though i guess the pressure would mean no fluid would flow through them even if they just fired continually
[21:48:45] <andypugh> I found some 24v solenoid valves with 2.5mm spigots. Probably small enough, but you won't like the price.
[21:48:52] <toast_> yeah, probably not
[21:48:55] <toast_> but what is it
[21:49:01] <andypugh> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=3885056
[21:49:16] <toast_> way, way too big
[21:49:41] <toast_> maybe manual valves is the better way to do this
[21:49:46] <toast_> *are
[21:50:14] <andypugh> http://www.aloha-aquariums.com/servlet/the-4290/Red-Sea-Aquarium-Co2/Detail
[21:50:15] <toast_> i was just seeing what the price range would be to create an on the fly paint mixer
[21:50:58] <toast_> I need 9-12 valves and all associated lines to fit in a 25mm diameter cylinder
[21:51:10] <MattyMatt> cheaper to have 4 spray heads
[21:51:16] <MattyMatt> CMYK :)
[21:51:24] <toast_> that's not how it works unless you're printing
[21:51:39] <toast_> there are more pigments than cmyk that need to be used
[21:51:40] <MattyMatt> ok CMYK and silver
[21:51:42] <andypugh> I rate your chances at zero. Actuators take up space.
[21:52:16] <MattyMatt> they would have to be directly behind the spray for quick change
[21:52:20] <andypugh> Individual air tubes to the head with remote valves might work.
[21:52:39] <toast_> the airbrush will suck paint out of the hoses
[21:52:48] <dan1mal_garage> i'm excited, my machine is coming together nicely
[21:52:52] <toast_> unless the valves are near the paint resivoir
[21:53:04] <toast_> i'm thinking small manual valves are the best way
[21:53:25] <dan1mal_garage> i got my home switches and a few buttons working nicely
[21:53:26] <toast_> little screws with knurled knobs or something
[21:53:55] <MattyMatt> dead washing machines have 2 large solenoid valves in them
[21:54:24] <MattyMatt> and a nice salad bowl in the door
[21:55:35] <dan1mal_garage> and a fire pit in the tub
[21:56:08] <MattyMatt> lets not forget the stainless steel strawberry planter itself
[21:56:30] <dan1mal_garage> and they wash your clothes
[21:56:49] <MattyMatt> for a while, but that's boring
[21:57:30] <toast_> you can make a chicken plucker out of a washing machine
[21:57:51] <MattyMatt> thank you I'll pluck my own
[21:58:14] <MattyMatt> give me a pair of wellies and I'll make its eyes water
[21:59:58] <arriflex_> arriflex_ is now known as arriflex
[22:13:43] <toast_> toast_ is now known as toastydeath
[22:14:06] <toastydeath> so the solenoids I seem to be after have are about 20-30 bucks a pop
[22:15:54] <toastydeath> ah but that's without the coil
[22:15:55] <toastydeath> damn
[22:17:05] <dan1mal_garage> ebay
[22:17:17] <dan1mal_garage> i got a box full of them
[22:17:30] <dan1mal_garage> might be overkill for you though
[22:17:41] <toastydeath> how much did you pay
[22:18:14] <dan1mal_garage> took them off my mill, so nothing
[22:18:19] <toastydeath> oh
[22:18:41] <dan1mal_garage> but i've baught them before for machines i've built at work, and they were about 50 bucks i think
[22:19:37] <toastydeath> i don't know much about solenoid valves, do they usually have pulse width limitations
[22:19:41] <andypugh> Have you already found http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Clippard-Minimatics-model-ETO-3-12-vdc-NEW_W0QQitemZ380134717457
[22:20:21] <toastydeath> i have not!
[22:20:25] <dan1mal_garage> http://cgi.ebay.com/1-2-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-12-V-Air-Water-Diesel-etc_W0QQitemZ290372534309QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439b8d4025
[22:20:30] <dan1mal_garage> 30 bucks new
[22:20:33] <dan1mal_garage> 12v
[22:20:58] <toastydeath> cool
[22:21:06] <dan1mal_garage> they are simple, apply 12v to them and they turn on or off
[22:21:17] <dan1mal_garage> depending on if they are no or nc
[22:21:19] <toastydeath> right but they'll need to do that pretty often
[22:21:57] <toastydeath> will they work like that or are they more for long on/off periods
[22:22:00] <MattyMatt> Amal carb needle jets, and normal solenoids
[22:22:14] <dan1mal_garage> it's just a magnetic valve
[22:22:19] <dan1mal_garage> should be ok
[22:22:41] <andypugh> Fule injectors? They fire often...
[22:22:45] <dan1mal_garage> i would think a continued on would be worse than if it was on and off frequently
[22:22:59] <dan1mal_garage> it'd get warm if it was left on
[22:23:04] <toastydeath> i guess I just don't want to buy a bunch of solenoids and find out I can't use them at 30 hz or whatever it turns out i need to use them at
[22:23:32] <archivist_emc> that last one wont do 20hz
[22:23:35] <dan1mal_garage> i dont know if they'd move that fast anyways
[22:23:47] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Triumph-injection-part_W0QQitemZ180443765549
[22:24:09] <toastydeath> yeah, actual fuel injectors might be the best option
[22:24:23] <andypugh> No, ignore that last one, those are just sprays.
[22:24:24] <dan1mal_garage> small pintles, they'd clog with paint i'd think
[22:24:39] <toastydeath> the paint has the consistency of milk and the pigment is very finely ground
[22:24:50] <toastydeath> airbrushes don't work well with anything else
[22:25:03] <dan1mal_garage> i would be more concerned about it when it dries
[22:25:18] <dan1mal_garage> you'd have to clean it very, very well
[22:25:19] <toastydeath> true, but the paint will always be wet and always be present on both sides
[22:26:01] <toastydeath> otherwise I'd be purging however much paint is in the hose every time I took it apart and that would be ridiculous
[22:27:20] <toastydeath> the issue is the mixing, is all
[22:27:52] <toastydeath> some paints are very, very strong and you only need a little to completely overcome the rest of the mix, so I'd need a fairly good control of flow through the valve
[22:28:38] <toastydeath> hmm, i am liking fuel injectors
[22:28:50] <toastydeath> but still, they spray
[22:29:13] <andypugh> You could modify the ends.
[22:29:19] <MattyMatt> into open air they do. into a hose they would just pump
[22:29:19] <toastydeath> yeha
[22:29:22] <andypugh> Don't get diesel ones.
[22:29:36] <toastydeath> ...why? constant spray?
[22:29:39] <archivist_emc> diesel injectors wont like the particle size
[22:29:48] <andypugh> diesel ones won't work at less than about 19 bar
[22:29:56] <archivist_emc> and that
[22:30:06] <toastydeath> zing
[22:30:18] <andypugh> They will work to 300bar, but that's no help
[22:30:28] <MattyMatt> in my diesel astra, all the injectors did was modulate the pressure pulse from the pump
[22:31:17] <andypugh> Aye, but the ones you would want for this application have a piezo actuator in the injector body.
[22:31:32] <andypugh> Things have moved on.
[22:31:47] <toastydeath> MattyMatt, how did they do that
[22:31:52] <MattyMatt> and so has my astra, may it rust in piece
[22:32:24] <toastydeath> because really what I want is a valve that can shut a line down partway
[22:32:32] <MattyMatt> they resisted a slow buildup of pressure (relatively) and then let it go in a sharp pulse
[22:32:51] <toastydeath> but the only way to do that seems to be either a pulsed solenoid or a manual valve
[22:33:11] <toastydeath> and maybe I should start this with manual valves just to see if it even works
[22:33:19] <MattyMatt> well if petrol injectors have piezo, that's your solenoid
[22:33:48] <MattyMatt> the more you pulse that with 12V, the more it'll pump
[22:34:24] <toastydeath> now I'm not so sure about the solenoids, there'll be no way to tell the controller how much to pump
[22:34:28] <toastydeath> just in what proportions
[22:34:51] <MattyMatt> yeah you might as well have a handwheel
[22:35:03] <MattyMatt> everything will change with airpressure, temp etc
[22:35:14] <toastydeath> air pressure comes off a common manifold, so it's constant over every line
[22:35:30] <toastydeath> but the flow demand is what I'm worried about
[22:35:43] <toastydeath> it changes very sharply and the proportions need to stay constant
[22:36:08] <toastydeath> this is probably a terrible idea
[22:36:47] <MattyMatt> fuel injector probably best there then. that will pump a fixed amount per pulse with little effect from backpressure
[22:37:01] <ds3> what about a piston system with a valve?
[22:37:11] <ds3> it should let you meter out amounts
[22:37:11] <MattyMatt> at 30Hz?
[22:37:32] <ds3> sure, those tiny model airplane engines move faster then that
[22:37:36] <toastydeath> it also shouldn't pump, it should just proportion the paint
[22:37:40] <MattyMatt> not a ridiculous speed for a piston I suppose
[22:37:56] <toastydeath> the pressure is constant on the line, and the gun's needle determines flow
[22:38:12] <ds3> they easily do 10K RPM... 1800RPM is 30Hz so...that's almost 250Hz
[22:38:29] <ds3> what about a stepper/servo on the needle?
[22:38:34] <toastydeath> so the valves have to work such that the ratio, say 10:5:1 between three lines, remains constant at all flow rates
[22:38:49] <toastydeath> does a normal valve work that way?
[22:39:07] <toastydeath> if I just put garden hose valves on the lines, and set the proportion, can I have any flow demand and have that remain constant?
[22:39:09] <MattyMatt> a gate valve would be fairly linear
[22:39:35] <MattyMatt> or a manual valve :)
[22:40:02] <MattyMatt> your brain will linearise the turns:flowrate
[22:40:25] <toastydeath> I guess my question is will any valve style (manual) have that property
[22:40:37] <toastydeath> maybe I should just go out and buy some small valves and try it
[22:40:56] <MattyMatt> butterfly valves are probably easiest to clean
[22:41:22] <toastydeath> it's not too hard to clean the lines out, the paint is very water soluable
[22:41:59] <toastydeath> maybe pressure is the way to do this
[22:42:18] <toastydeath> instead of valves just have the ends open and use regulators
[22:43:39] <MattyMatt> Amal carb needles & jets. you'd have to make the housing and actuator
[22:44:12] <MattyMatt> the large one from an old Mini has a 3mm jet
[22:44:14] <toastydeath> hm
[22:45:55] <toastydeath> what do you see as the advantage to using carb parts
[22:46:35] <MattyMatt> nicely ground needle valve seat
[22:46:45] <toastydeath> hm
[22:47:23] <MattyMatt> you'd need a linear actuator of some sort for best control. 3.5" floppy stepper seems ideal
[22:48:58] <MattyMatt> if you don't need a perfect shutoff, a homemade needle & seat could do you
[22:49:41] <toastydeath> the valves never close
[22:50:04] <toastydeath> all these will do is proportion
[22:50:13] <toastydeath> so yeah, i will have to keep that in mind
[22:51:03] <MattyMatt> is this for a graphitti ninja robot?
[22:51:09] <toastydeath> no, handheld airbrush
[22:51:25] <MattyMatt> oh no, those use waterproof paint ;)
[22:51:31] <toastydeath> no, they don't
[22:51:37] <toastydeath> you can use waterproof paint depending on the application
[22:52:02] <toastydeath> some of the paints are waterproof when dry, but are water-based with an emulsifier to keep them in suspension
[22:52:09] <toastydeath> etc etc
[22:52:22] <toastydeath> the stuff I'm using, illustration paint, is water based acrylic
[22:52:28] <MattyMatt> I want one of those Wacom ones
[22:52:40] <toastydeath> wacom makes airbrushes?
[22:52:46] <MattyMatt> virtual ones
[22:52:51] <toastydeath> oh, ha
[22:52:56] <toastydeath> yeah, those are sweet
[22:53:05] <MattyMatt> they have the same dual action lever, and the tablet senses height & angle
[22:53:38] <MattyMatt> friskets don't work tho
[22:53:56] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt watches his sister try
[22:54:44] <toastydeath> wouldn't you just use photoshop layers
[22:54:47] <toastydeath> to frisket
[22:54:59] <toastydeath> or is this a dedicated application or something
[22:55:31] <MattyMatt> yeah but it's not the same as holding a stencil in your other hand
[22:55:48] <MattyMatt> hmm maybe a new market here
[22:56:10] <toastydeath> hahah
[22:56:36] <toastydeath> http://www.gvc.net/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=4726&cat=FNPT
[22:56:40] <toastydeath> those might work
[22:56:42] <MattyMatt> a stencil card with a grid of wires, so it knows what shape you've cut it to, linked to photoshop layer
[22:57:38] <toastydeath> haha
[22:58:14] <MattyMatt> nice taps, but I'm sure there's sth cheaper in DIY store
[22:58:35] <toastydeath> yeah
[22:58:45] <toastydeath> home depot probably has some in the tubing isle
[22:59:10] <toastydeath> i also wonder how to get the paint to mix
[22:59:38] <toastydeath> yup, found them for five bucks
[23:00:39] <toastydeath> http://secure2.data-comm.com/servlet/RBIS/-strse-2977/APPROVED-VENDOR-A6860-1VPW1/Detail
[23:00:58] <toastydeath> that's it, small oriface and I could just tap the bottle tops
[23:02:07] <Skullworks> todays best deal - Enco has Mobil Vactra #2 n sale - with a $99 order you can get it shipped to your door for $61.49/5gal.
[23:12:03] <MattyMatt> Price: Register or Login for Member Pricing
[23:12:04] <MattyMatt> $12.63
[23:12:19] <MattyMatt> so, it's like that is it :) fleecing the rubes
[23:12:38] <MattyMatt> five bucks, my arse
[23:12:50] <toastydeath> there was another one
[23:12:52] <toastydeath> that was five
[23:12:55] <toastydeath> but i liked the 12 dollar one better
[23:13:22] <toastydeath> i just don't know if i have to use pressure, or restriction to meter paint
[23:13:31] <toastydeath> i can't find anyone who knows on any of the channels i'm in
[23:13:47] <ds3> why are you proportioning paint?
[23:13:56] <ds3> dynamic color mixing?
[23:14:06] <MattyMatt> it'll be restriction, as the paint is sucked out by the venturi
[23:14:26] <toastydeath> the paint is forced
[23:14:38] <toastydeath> ds3, yes
[23:15:31] <toastydeath> the paint switching systems use ~20 psi over the paint cans
[23:15:51] <toastydeath> the airbrush doesn't generate enough vacuum to drag paint through a 3' hose
[23:17:27] <toastydeath> so what I see is either using a needle valve per pot, or using a regulator per pot
[23:17:29] <toastydeath> or perhaps both
[23:17:42] <MattyMatt> I'm thinking one airbrush per pigment is sounding simpler again, even if it involves growing more hands
[23:18:25] <toastydeath> I'm not looking to layer colors, I'm looking to actually have a paint mixed
[23:18:58] <toastydeath> so the alternative is not airbrush per color, it's a gravity fed or reservoir brush and mixing paint in the cup
[23:19:00] <MattyMatt> would 2 paint jets in 1 air stream be mixed enough?
[23:19:13] <toastydeath> no way to get two paint jets in the one air stream
[23:19:29] <MattyMatt> custom airbrush
[23:19:41] <toastydeath> i don't know how to make that work
[23:20:22] <toastydeath> the mixing bit on the airbrush is really complicated and i don't know how to make one
[23:20:36] <MattyMatt> the paint valve in the airbrush, repeat that a few times around the central air jet, with individual levers
[23:21:16] <MattyMatt> oh yeah it's complicated, and you'll never work it by hand unless it's built like a clarinet :)
[23:21:19] <toastydeath> someone might have a use for that or know how to design it
[23:21:29] <toastydeath> but for what I'm trying to do it's not going to work out
[23:21:49] <toastydeath> the needle's main purpose is to laminate the flow of the paint in the airstream
[23:21:55] <toastydeath> so you can do needle fine lines
[23:22:12] <toastydeath> with two needles I don't know how you'd get it to mix and then hit the paper in a defined line
[23:22:23] <MattyMatt> nor me
[23:22:55] <toastydeath> but the thing I have in mind is not complicated, I guess the solution is to just buy some hose and a couple valves
[23:23:18] <MattyMatt> mixing in the cup is probably best. that way paint pressure doesn't affect the airbrush itself
[23:23:34] <toastydeath> the pressure doesn't affect it - there are systems like this already in use
[23:23:40] <toastydeath> they just don't offer mixing, just switching
[23:24:01] <toastydeath> people do rudimentary mixing using the switching knob, leaving it half between two colors
[23:24:22] <MattyMatt> and why won't that work for you?
[23:24:40] <toastydeath> because they're 500 dollars and for 500 dollars I'm pretty sure i can build one that does mixing, not just color switching
[23:25:11] <toastydeath> all they are is a pressurized manifold over the paint, and a 9 way valve
[23:25:17] <toastydeath> plus some hose
[23:25:22] <toastydeath> that is not worth 500 dollars.
[23:25:57] <toastydeath> if it mixed, it would be
[23:26:01] <toastydeath> (and more)
[23:27:36] <toastydeath> but the simplest test i can think of is to build the same kind of device for color switching for two colors and just see if needle valves will work
[23:27:50] <toastydeath> and if not, just add another regulator and see if pressure change will do it
[23:32:38] <lilalinux_mbp> lilalinux_mbp is now known as lilalinux
[23:32:52] <andypugh> Sorry, was scrolled up and thought there was no chat.
[23:33:09] <andypugh> Piezo injectors are _not_ 12v. Nearer 300V
[23:35:08] <andypugh> For mixing, consider air-to-fluid regulators, and remote electrically controlled air regulators. (You would probably be building your own regulators, but it's not rocket science)
[23:35:26] <andypugh> (Actually, it is rocket science, but so is most of the stuff we do here)
[23:36:15] <toastydeath> i have backed off the idea of electrically controlling anything for the time being
[23:36:43] <toastydeath> if manual control is possible it may be worth it, after time, to replace the valves with something electronic
[23:36:52] <toastydeath> (or the regulators)
[23:37:33] <L84Supper> is this for continuous spray or spray-on-demand like an inkjet?
[23:38:00] <toastydeath> it is "both"
[23:38:13] <toastydeath> the spray is continuous, but is not on all the time and the flow varies
[23:38:38] <toastydeath> it's an airbrush, you pull the trigger and the harder you pull it the more paint comes out
[23:41:46] <L84Supper> trying to mix colors in an atomized spray will partially work, it depends on well mixed you need it
[23:42:01] <toastydeath> the paint is mixed before it hits the spray head
[23:42:15] <toastydeath> the idea is to get it to mix in the line
[23:43:29] <toastydeath> the only question is what to use to do the actual proportioning and why
[23:44:55] <L84Supper> if it's mixed just in the line it will end up like the two color tooth pastes or the peanut butter and jelly in the same jar
[23:45:35] <andypugh> Regulators are quite simple. Making an air-to-fluid regulator manifold in your envelope should be possible.
[23:45:59] <toastydeath> andypugh?
[23:46:08] <andypugh> ?
[23:46:13] <toastydeath> L84Supper, the paint is almost the consistency of water, it mixes
[23:46:18] <toastydeath> without almost any stirring
[23:46:31] <toastydeath> andypugh, i'm not familiar with the kind of regulator you're suggesting
[23:46:40] <andypugh> I just invented it.
[23:46:44] <L84Supper> ok, down around 1cps
[23:46:59] <andypugh> (As a term at least)
[23:47:19] <toastydeath> the mixing has been demonstrated to work in other devices whose purpose is NOT mixing, so i am not regarding mixing as a problem that needs any consideration
[23:47:34] <andypugh> Look at a normal manifold, and consider having different fluids in each half
[23:47:47] <toastydeath> right
[23:48:01] <andypugh> (err, not manifold, I meant regulator)
[23:48:12] <toastydeath> haha, a bit different, that
[23:48:15] <toastydeath> but sure
[23:48:57] <andypugh> You can buy air-to-air regulators, where a zero-flow controlled air pressure controls a high-flow air pressure.
[23:49:28] <andypugh> I used one in a testing machine where the spec was 20,000 cfm at 0-100psi
[23:49:57] <toastydeath> i don't know what that is, either
[23:50:31] <andypugh> (Not that the specifier realised that was their spec, they specified that the test rig should apply 100psi to an open 1" port valve and not force it closed)
[23:51:06] <toastydeath> why is that an advantage over a normal regulator
[23:51:22] <toastydeath> say i have the air pressure over the paint controlled by a 10 dollar regulator I buy at home depot
[23:51:32] <toastydeath> I'm using 20 psi, tops
[23:51:35] <andypugh> You can remote-control it from somewhere you do have space for the parts
[23:52:08] <toastydeath> remote control doesnt solve the issue, though
[23:52:18] <toastydeath> manual, eletronic, on the gun, off the gun
[23:53:05] <andypugh> Sorry, I might have missed what the issue was
[23:53:11] <toastydeath> what is the best way to maintain volume ratios between several lines over a range of flow rates
[23:53:34] <toastydeath> i.e. how do I have a setup that ensures 10 units of paint A and 1 unit of paint B at both .0001 gpm and .1 gpm
[23:53:51] <andypugh> Multiple stepper-driven gear pumps.
[23:54:06] <toastydeath> there's no way to know what the flow is going to be
[23:54:09] <toastydeath> it has to be passive
[23:55:04] <toastydeath> the two things I had thought of, and maybe you can think of more, are either using needle valves, one per pot, to restrict flow while using a manifold to feed air to the paints
[23:55:18] <toastydeath> or using individual regulators at different pressures to control the paints
[23:55:56] <toastydeath> either way, the valve downstream admitting paint into the gun is going to open and close and the system has no idea when it will be open or by how much
[23:56:18] <andypugh> the individual regulators was what I was trying to make work, but then you specified flow rates, so I switched to the positive-displacement pump idea
[23:56:47] <toastydeath> oh, sorry - that's what would be demanded
[23:57:02] <toastydeath> the flow is a demand based thing, it is not really driven at any specific rate
[23:57:13] <toastydeath> sorry to be confusing
[23:57:19] <andypugh> I think you need to valve each paint seperately. Either approach would then work.
[23:57:44] <toastydeath> can you see advantages to valved + individual regulators, or do you think that having a common manifold would make it more adjustable and consistant
[23:58:26] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Is the diameter of the outlet of the manifold the same?
[23:58:43] <toastydeath> everything is going to be identical for each paint line
[23:59:09] <toastydeath> (i hope that answers the question because i didn't quite understand which outlet you meant)
[23:59:17] <andypugh> I think that it might be worth trying constant air and variable paint, with positive displacement pumps.
[23:59:27] <toastydeath> the paint isn't pumped
[23:59:29] <Jymmm> Does the source have good volume/flow to feed AL the drops?
[23:59:34] <Jymmm> ALL
[23:59:37] <toastydeath> yes
[23:59:52] <andypugh> There are tiny magnetic pumps that might do the trick
[23:59:53] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[23:59:54] <toastydeath> you're only talking .025cfh