#emc | Logs for 2009-12-15

[00:08:08] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[00:40:23] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[00:51:03] <danimal_garage> hi guys
[00:51:16] <Valen> how goes the servo conversion?
[01:04:40] <danimal_garage> decided against it for now
[01:04:49] <danimal_garage> got the steppers working alot better
[01:05:07] <danimal_garage> trying to figure out the toolchanger now
[01:06:05] <DrMitch> wait, you were going to use servos instead of steppers?
[01:06:15] <danimal_garage> yea
[01:06:33] <danimal_garage> i was loosing position with the steppers
[01:07:21] <DrMitch> don't servos only do 180 degrees though?
[01:07:33] <DrMitch> usually
[01:07:39] <danimal_garage> no
[01:08:03] <danimal_garage> maybe rc car servos
[01:08:18] <danimal_garage> machine servos are 360 deg
[01:08:43] <DrMitch> okay, but still. you were using that as your stage drive?
[01:09:23] <danimal_garage> i was going to
[01:09:31] <DrMitch> coolios
[01:09:35] <danimal_garage> but i got the steppers working correctly
[01:09:45] <DrMitch> yippie.
[01:09:51] <danimal_garage> most machines come with servos
[01:20:30] <cradek> DrMitch: 'servo' means two different things. the rc kind and the machine tool kind are very different.
[01:21:21] <danimal_garage> now ya tell me!
[01:21:49] <danimal_garage> cradek: i got all the hardware in to convert my HNC
[01:21:53] <cradek> neat
[01:22:12] <cradek> so why's it not done yet?
[01:22:17] <Valen> he's lazy
[01:22:23] <cradek> loser :-)
[01:22:35] <danimal_garage> 5i20, 7i42, 7i33, 7i37, and the pico resolver converter boards
[01:22:37] <Valen> thinks making money is more important than showing us pictures of machines with their covers off
[01:22:47] <danimal_garage> haha
[01:23:03] <danimal_garage> i'm working on the mill now
[01:23:24] <danimal_garage> trying to get the toolchanger working, and trying to wire up the front pannel
[01:23:39] <cradek> neat
[01:23:46] <cradek> tool changers are fun
[01:24:01] <cradek> I had a tool thrower for a while...
[01:24:04] <danimal_garage> i'm a little confused on the tool prepare/tool change
[01:24:40] <cradek> prep is the part of the tool change that can be done while still cutting with the previous tool
[01:24:43] <Valen> I'm trying to work out how to make the tool changer
[01:24:52] <danimal_garage> my toolchanger (dana/summit quickdraw 2) cant exactly prepare the tool
[01:24:55] <Valen> all the different spindles and stuff
[01:25:04] <danimal_garage> is that the toolchanger you had cradek?
[01:25:23] <cradek> if you have a carousel, often you can 'prep' (bring the next tool to the right place) while still cutting
[01:25:28] <danimal_garage> Valen: good luck, that's gunna be fun
[01:25:45] <cradek> no, I don't know what that is, do you have pictures?
[01:25:49] <Valen> I'm thinking of doing the "sits on the mill bed" one
[01:26:05] <danimal_garage> i'll look for one
[01:26:43] <Valen> so you just need to drive over to the right spot, Z down release the old one, go grab the new one
[01:27:20] <danimal_garage> cradek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8opxZLSAvN8]
[01:27:22] <danimal_garage> video of one
[01:27:31] <Valen> but trying to work out the mechanics of grabbing the tool, with all the different arbors, collets and such is confusing
[01:28:01] <toast_> collets are easy!
[01:28:01] <danimal_garage> Valen, only issue there is keeping the tools clean so your spindle doesnt get metal chips embedded in it or the toolholders
[01:28:02] <cradek> ah I see - no prep is possible there
[01:28:13] <toast_> you have your TRs, you have your ER series, etc
[01:28:22] <toast_> triple angle, and so forth
[01:28:24] <Valen> mmm good call, I can see some kind of box being involved
[01:28:31] <danimal_garage> thats what i thought cradek
[01:28:47] <cradek> danimal_garage: so I think you run the arm process once to put back the old tool - then index the carousel to find the tool you want - then run the arm process again?
[01:28:47] <danimal_garage> just wanted to make sure i wasnt misinterpreting "toolprepare"
[01:29:11] <danimal_garage> cradek: correct
[01:29:16] <cradek> yes I think you'll just ignore prepare (just leave the loopback in hal)
[01:29:27] <danimal_garage> cool
[01:30:13] <cradek> when those fingers open is there clearance for the carousel to index? I'm surprised it is not in the way
[01:30:22] <danimal_garage> yep
[01:30:31] <cradek> oh ok
[01:30:46] <danimal_garage> works pretty slick actually
[01:30:59] <cradek> so grab tool, move arm left, drop tool, open fingers - index carousel - grab tool, move arm right, insert tool, open fingers
[01:31:11] <danimal_garage> however the air lines in the arm get twisted up and it loses air pressure and throws tools
[01:31:29] <danimal_garage> correct
[01:31:34] <cradek> air powered stuff is strong and fast ... and a curse
[01:32:10] <danimal_garage> but there is actually logic in the toolchanger so the only signals are tool out, carousel cw or ccw, and tool out
[01:32:26] <ds3> from the non response, no one has really looked at the NML stuff for a remote interface?
[01:32:29] <danimal_garage> aside from carousel home
[01:34:12] <eric_unterhausen> ds3: it's been done before, so someone looked at it
[01:34:33] <cradek> danimal_garage: sounds pretty straightforward. a nice fit for the classicladder counter block.
[01:34:49] <ds3> eric_unterhausen: looked at it and gave up or looked at it and got somewhere?
[01:35:04] <eric_unterhausen> ds3: pretty sure it worked
[01:35:17] <eric_unterhausen> there used to be info floating around about how to do it
[01:35:19] <danimal_garage> cradek: yea, i thought it was going to be easy
[01:35:33] <danimal_garage> but it isnt looking all that easy anymore
[01:35:33] <eric_unterhausen> for my purposes, just doing a remote x session seems good enough
[01:35:45] <ds3> eric_unterhausen: okay, thanks. I can research it further
[01:35:51] <ds3> I was hoping it'd be lower overhead then X
[01:36:29] <ds3> trying to recycle under powered machines so the more it can be stripped off, the better
[01:38:05] <cradek> underpowered machines run the full gui pretty well
[01:38:32] <danimal_garage> yea i'm using an old p3 box
[01:38:37] <danimal_garage> works good
[01:38:38] <eric_unterhausen> I had an underpowered machine that woulda worked fine except for the latency
[01:38:56] <cradek> P3 are still great if you can load them up with ram
[01:39:03] <ds3> cradek: I tried the CD and it was choking the machine
[01:39:15] <ds3> this was a Pentium class laptop though
[01:39:28] <danimal_garage> cradek: mine was a server, i think it has a gig in it
[01:39:38] <eric_unterhausen> since I can get an atom running for ~$100, it doesn't seem worth futzing around too much
[01:39:45] <danimal_garage> laptops cant be used very well for emc i heard
[01:39:55] <ds3> aren't people saying most atoms have too much latency?
[01:40:05] <eric_unterhausen> if they are, that's news
[01:40:32] <danimal_garage> i'd put money on my old p3 working better than my p4 dell
[01:40:55] <eric_unterhausen> p4 was a sad, sad mistake in letting marketing determine chip design
[01:41:40] <jimbo8388> multiple monitors on EMC. Yje wiki talks about a directtory that does not exist. I also want to be able to run two different GUI at the same time. Any help please
[01:41:43] <cradek> I thought atoms were the current hot item for emc use
[01:41:48] <cradek> I don't have one
[01:41:50] <eric_unterhausen> my Athlons have good performance
[01:42:30] <danimal_garage> i have 4 p4 machines in this house, and all of them suck
[01:42:32] <eric_unterhausen> jimbo8388: seems like xinerama is a recent addition that isn't on the live cd
[01:42:39] <ds3> still got to do something with the pile of boards
[01:42:46] <eric_unterhausen> ds3: recycle
[01:42:47] <cradek> I have some too and I think they're great :-)
[01:43:13] <danimal_garage> cradek: some p4's?
[01:43:17] <eric_unterhausen> I'm relatively happy with the recent intel workstations we have
[01:43:21] <jimbo8388> Eric: what is xinerama?
[01:43:25] <eric_unterhausen> don't consider those p4s though
[01:43:36] <eric_unterhausen> xinerama allows multiple monitors
[01:43:50] <ds3> eric_underhausen: that is what I was hoping to do... put then in machines and if the chips get in and fry them, just move to the next one
[01:43:58] <jimbo8388> Is this part of 2.4.0?
[01:44:24] <MattyMatt> atom's strengths are size & power. neither are priorities for emc unless you want a midget embedded machine
[01:44:47] <eric_unterhausen> I'm just saying that about xinerama since I had to install it in order for my new livecd system to build the current version of emc
[01:45:13] <eric_unterhausen> size is a nice attribute for me
[01:45:13] <cradek> that makes no sense
[01:45:17] <ds3> or if your show has limited power
[01:45:23] <ds3> s/show/shop/
[01:45:29] <cradek> xinerama is an X feature that means one desktop over multiple screens
[01:45:34] <cradek> X has had it for ages
[01:45:40] <cradek> it has squat to do with emc
[01:45:57] <eric_unterhausen> I had to install it
[01:46:11] <eric_unterhausen> I was surprised about that
[01:46:20] <cradek> oh you mean a library??
[01:46:29] <eric_unterhausen> possibly
[01:46:33] <cradek> sure, a dev pacakge for compiling
[01:46:51] <MattyMatt> I thought XandR or sth was the new thing for multiple screens
[01:47:03] <cradek> no, that's resize-and-rotate
[01:47:04] <MattyMatt> maybe too new for Ub7.04
[01:47:13] <cradek> (also not very new)
[01:47:24] <ds3> before I ask more questions... is there a summary of what changed in the last 18 months or os?
[01:47:53] <cradek> front page of the wiki, first link
[01:48:07] <cradek> ("View a list of new features...")
[01:48:08] <jimbo8388> Are you able to run a different interface in each window?
[01:48:26] <eric_unterhausen> can you run 2 interfaces on one monitor?
[01:48:36] <cradek> sure
[01:48:54] <ds3> if you hadn't typed "View a...", I'd have missed it!
[01:48:59] <eric_unterhausen> jimbo8388: did you try hooking up your second monitor?
[01:49:15] <jimbo8388> I am looking to run touchy on the mill and axia on my desktop.
[01:49:28] <cradek> ds3: that's just released versions though. there's a ton of stuff in the development branch, getting ready for 2.4.0
[01:49:52] <ds3> cradek: I am trying to find out if lathe is more usable now
[01:50:05] <jimbo8388> I have not setup a second monitor. I was thinking of using X from a seperate computer over the net.
[01:50:07] <ds3> so I'll start with that page
[01:50:25] <cradek> gotta ask a more specific question than that then
[01:50:44] <MattyMatt> I've got an 8 port KVM spare for my machine
[01:50:48] <ds3> *nod* hence, I 'll read the changes first
[01:50:50] <eric_unterhausen> jimbo8388 that isn't multiple monitors
[01:52:50] <jimbo8388> Eric: so the second monitor has to be attached to the machine. Bummer.......
[01:53:22] <eric_unterhausen> I dunno about that, but it seems my linux-foo might be too weak to help you with that
[01:53:38] <eric_unterhausen> vnc could help?
[01:54:35] <MattyMatt> a dual-workstation KVM would rock, so I could use any machine from either room
[01:55:16] <MattyMatt> if this was my house, I'd start hacking in the trunk lines already
[01:55:51] <eric_unterhausen> I rewired one of my apartments so I could use X10 remote controls
[01:55:59] <ds3> so there is a diameter mode... does axis understand it? (i.e. will it show simulations correctly?)
[01:56:08] <cradek> yes
[01:56:33] <cradek> the dro shows both diameter and radius. the preview doesn't care - it is right either way
[01:57:12] <ds3> so does that mean the preview doesn't try to show a sectional view?
[01:57:44] <cradek> the preview shows the tool path, not the workpiece
[01:58:07] <eric_unterhausen> wow, mcmaster really let me down, ordered yesterday, shipping tomorrow
[01:58:28] <ds3> yes but I thought it also tries to give some hints as to the tool nose geometry?
[01:58:39] <eric_unterhausen> not my fault 2 small items out of 20 had to come from a separate warehouse
[01:58:43] <ds3> or is TNR compensation not there?
[01:58:47] <cradek> yeah it does that
[01:58:57] <cradek> yes there is tool shape compensation
[01:59:35] <ds3> Hmmm... about the only thing else I would want is threading using a single pulse encoder ;)
[01:59:42] <MattyMatt> eric, 21st Century life sucks :)
[01:59:44] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_tool_compensation.html#r1_2_2
[01:59:51] <cradek> ds3: ^
[02:00:43] <cradek> it has that too now, but it's still a bad idea
[02:00:51] <cradek> (single pulse per rev)
[02:01:11] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/encoder.9.html
[02:01:30] <cradek> jeez freenode sux tonight
[02:01:34] <ds3> I really need to finish the EMC migration I started a year and half ago :/
[02:04:05] <ds3> did the talk about being able to use the handshake lines on a serial port as a RT signal ever make it in?
[02:09:40] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/serport.9.html
[02:09:40] <ds3> and if I understand things right, I can get the RT module to generate a PWM signal based on input from a non RT source, right? (i.e. a thermometer that is read by a bit bang SPI interface on a Linux (non RT controlled) parallel port; this is used to generate a PWM to maintain a temperature)
[02:09:40] <cradek> sure
[02:09:40] <MattyMatt> brainstorm! that spindle made of McMasters bits could be made in a huge sixgun barrel. 6 (or more) tools each with their own spindle, but with a shared motor (using that split connector as a dog clutch)
[02:09:40] <cradek> MattyMatt: the barrel would have to be so large that your workpiece fits entirely under one spindle
[02:09:40] <MattyMatt> oh yeah :) good spot
[02:09:40] <MattyMatt> ok, wheel of fortune style then
[02:09:40] <cradek> ferris wheel would be better
[02:09:40] <cradek> yeah that
[02:09:40] <Martinp23> [Global Notice] Hi folks! As you've no doubt noticed, we're having connectivity issues with one of our sponsors. We're working hard to resolve them right now and appreciate your patience - if you need any help drop into #freenode . Thanks very much!
[02:10:40] <jimbo8388> Based on the wiki I need a checkout directory under the EMCdev called emc2head. how is this directory or checkout area created? Does EMC2 have to be recompiled to support this feature?
[02:19:31] <Valen> mcmaster wont ship to us evil foreign people
[02:20:19] <MattyMatt> oh well, I'll find it all in metric instead then :)
[02:24:36] <Valen> I still find it funny that americans use british measurements
[02:24:46] <MattyMatt> my local metal stockist has more imp than metric sizes
[02:24:46] <Valen> what with that whole war and everything ;->
[02:25:05] <Valen> you mean 25.4mm bar isnt a metric size?
[02:25:05] <MattyMatt> so once you get away from B&Q and Wilko, you can do engineering in imp
[02:25:05] <MattyMatt> I'm saying you can't buy plumbing that fits together like a repstrap, although you probably can if you know where to look
[02:25:15] <Valen> methinks the interwebs be screwed
[02:33:20] <danimal_garage> din connectors are great for wiring my machine, but man do i hate soldering all the connections
[02:43:56] <Jymmm> If anyone cares.... tmobile prepaid is running a in-store promo... nokia phone + new number + 135 minutes for $15 USD
[02:45:11] <MattyMatt> those cheap nokias use 2x AAA
[02:45:39] <ds3> hmm that's compareable to what Targets did a while back
[02:46:11] <eric_unterhausen> are there tmobile stores?
[02:46:16] <Jymmm> No, it comes with a charger and headset
[02:46:43] <MattyMatt> NiMH AAA :)
[02:46:43] <ds3> Jymmm: got a link?
[02:47:02] <Jymmm> ds3: Yeah... IN-STORE
[02:47:14] <ds3> no flyers or anything
[02:47:18] <eric_unterhausen> INWHATSTORE?
[02:47:20] <Jymmm> ds3: Yeah... IN-STORE
[02:47:23] <MattyMatt> I'm waiting for Orange to do an offer like that. all the others have. I want to keep my number
[02:47:43] <ds3> $15 for a new phone... hmmm
[02:47:46] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: T-Mobile Store
[02:48:12] <eric_unterhausen> I don't think they have stores
[02:48:29] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: That's funny, I just CAME FROM ONE
[02:48:31] <MattyMatt> they did have here, but they're all gone now
[02:48:46] <ds3> Jymmm: is this all the corp stores or just one?
[02:48:55] <eric_unterhausen> Jymmm, YOULIVEINCIVILIZATION
[02:49:13] <Jymmm> ds3: Call them and find out
[02:50:06] <ds3> Jymmm: let me reprhase.... which store did you come from?
[02:50:06] <Jymmm> I think this is the phone for $15 http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/Detail.aspx?class=prepaid&device=d8ae7662-4fcb-4fc5-a010-8f854b9e513e
[02:50:20] <ds3> easier to take the long way home then to try to call
[02:50:22] <Jymmm> ds3: Union&Camden
[02:50:42] <ds3> the mall with Burrito Factory, right?
[02:52:34] <Jymmm> it has a cvs pharmacy in it
[02:53:11] <Jymmm> luckys too iirc
[02:53:25] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, 6" of snow scheduled for tonight here
[02:53:31] <ds3> I know that store... it isn't too far out of the way
[02:53:48] <MattyXM> powder snow?
[02:53:51] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: gonna be a polar bear swimming?
[02:54:27] <LawrenceG> right around freezing.... could be ugly in the morning
[03:01:49] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: no firewood?
[03:01:57] <LawrenceG> with the olympics coming in Feb, the mountains are happy to have it.... Jymmm was stacking firewood this afternoon! (for next year)
[03:01:58] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Oh, you mean freezing OUTSIDE, I thought you meant inside
[03:02:13] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[03:03:17] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, Whisler Mtn already has a 66" base
[03:06:41] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: too bad I dont ski
[03:06:59] <Jymmm> ds3: Hey
[03:07:58] <ds3> ?
[03:08:01] <Jymmm> ds3: The deal with tmobiel prepaid is you need (should) get a $100 card. That makes your minutes dont expire for a year and gets the cost down to $0.10/minute
[03:08:34] <ds3> Jymmm: I got a similar deal through target; I am looking at it as a $15 phone with no strings attached
[03:08:55] <Jymmm> Well tmobiel is the chepaest prepaid there is.
[03:09:06] <ds3> A year or so ago, Target did a free phone w/$100 card thing
[03:09:19] <Jymmm> I've have it for a few years, but you need to spend $100/yr
[03:09:25] <ds3> so you get the included $15 starter credit + $100 and I sold the new phone
[03:09:45] <ds3> not really, I just add $10 every 364 days and it renews the credit for another year
[03:10:23] <ds3> they are great for emergency phones
[03:10:24] <Jymmm> well, they expire in 90 days, so they said at less than $100
[03:10:33] <ds3> no, you just need to do the $100 once
[03:10:35] <Jymmm> You dont need any plan to dial 911
[03:10:47] <ds3> then you can add $10 each year after that
[03:10:51] <Jymmm> lol
[03:11:00] <Jymmm> so it's a screw up on their end?
[03:11:01] <ds3> I know about the 911 part... it is for the softer emergencies
[03:11:35] <ds3> *nod* just don't do their $1 a day thing, that's a hard 90day expiration plan
[03:11:53] <Jymmm> $0.10/min works for me
[03:12:50] <ds3> but phones wear out so a $15 phone is a good deal
[03:13:31] <ds3> even batteries can cost more then that
[03:13:31] <Jymmm> true, I have a fancy phone, got replacement bateries for $3
[03:13:31] <Jymmm> Motorola Rizr
[03:13:49] <Jymmm> it's a slider, camera, BT, mp3, video player
[03:14:02] <ds3> was that a free phone?
[03:14:21] <Jymmm> No I paid retail on-sale $130/ea x2
[03:15:19] <Jymmm> GREAT price for it
[03:17:01] <Jymmm> no contract either
[03:18:56] <ds3> Nice but it is $130 outlay immediately
[03:18:56] <Jymmm> I love the phone, it's worth it
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> take microSd card too
[03:22:08] <ds3> if you have the cash...
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> sell your body
[03:22:08] <ds3> using a 5-6 year old phone
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> well, there ya go
[03:22:08] <ds3> that thing is likely to croak :(
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> Well I have the unlock codes for these phones, but since you already have tmobile no need for that.
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> tmobile will give you the unlock code AFTER 90 days of active service
[03:22:08] <ds3> yep. got them
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> Maybe I should go back and have a spare phone on hadd too, you never know
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> hand
[03:22:08] <ds3> hahahaha
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> drop it, lose it etc.
[03:22:09] <Jymmm> no camera, just fm radio
[03:22:10] <_Poincare> _Poincare is now known as Poincare
[03:22:10] <ds3> I just wish it took AA's
[03:22:10] <ds3> one less charger to worry about
[03:22:15] <Jymmm> mine is mini usb, so I can charge it from pc
[03:22:19] <ds3> I was thinking along the lines of keep in glove comparment
[03:22:21] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_RIZR_Z3
[03:28:13] <SkinnY_PuP> Anyone run emc on an atom 330 intel board D945GCLF2D yet? What were the latency times if anyone knows?
[03:48:03] <eric_unterhausen> SkinnY_PuP: isn't that board on the wiki latency chart?
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[04:04:23] <SkinnY_PuP> eric_unterhausen, thanks for pointing that out, been a lil while since been on the wiki
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[12:41:30] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[12:42:54] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, We're still experiencing a massive DDoS attack affecting stability at some of our sponsors. We apologise for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience and understanding as these issues are still ongoing. Feel free to pop into #freenode to contact a staffer if you have any questions.
[12:57:06] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi again, in order to try minimize the disruptance to project channels I will be moving services to a unaffected host in a moment. While these attacks are ongoing I would suggest that if you want further information you go +w in order to receive wallops as we'll try limit global notices traffic as much as possible from now on. Thanks.
[12:58:10] <Dave911> SkinnY_PuP: That board is on the Wiki chart and it has good numbers....
[12:58:36] <Dave911> Looks like Freenode is really struggling to function today
[13:33:09] <Dave911> Has anyone used a flat panel touch screen "kit" to add touch capabilities to an existing screen?
[13:33:11] <Dave911> How well does that work?
[13:39:27] <MattyXM> isn't Touchy one of those?
[13:45:16] <MattyXM> retrofit are the same as prebuilt, in that it depends on the software
[13:46:03] <MattyXM> they look and work just the same, if you don't trap any dust between :)
[13:48:30] <skunkworks_> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:48:30] <skunkworks_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-12-15.txt
[13:50:26] <MattyXM> you've missed a discussion on prepaid phones, a lot of netsplits, and Dave911's question about touchscreens :)
[13:51:22] <skunkworks_> well... I don't want to be left out!
[13:52:26] <Dave911> touch screen retrofits....Do the retrofits normally fit behind the bezel so it looks original or not usually?
[13:52:58] <MattyXM> depends on the craftsmanship of the fitter. velcro anyone?
[13:53:18] <Dave911> I'm not into velcro myself ...
[13:53:30] <MattyXM> ah, you're a blutak man
[13:53:53] <archivist> mine is factory fitted..I must get it going
[13:54:18] <Dave911> So is it reasonable to think that you can fit a touch screen add on inside the bezel - or not so ?
[13:54:33] <Dave911> Any ideas on which screens can be easily retrofit?
[13:54:41] <MattyXM> if there's room to shift everything backwards ~10mm
[13:54:56] <Dave911> 10 mm! Wow, that is a lot!
[13:55:01] <MattyXM> moving the bezel forwards is another way
[13:55:18] <MattyXM> probably closer to 5mm with modern ones
[13:55:19] <skunkworks_> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg
[13:55:37] <skunkworks_> ^touch screen
[13:56:00] <Dave911> Hmmmm.. ok.
[13:56:22] <MattyXM> NDS ones are only 1-2mm, but they don't have the electronics
[13:56:28] <Dave911> skunkworks: Oh I know.... I have mill envy.....
[13:57:18] <archivist> * archivist notes the sticky tape on the arm top left of the monitor
[13:57:21] <MattyXM> mmm a mill with a step in bath
[13:57:28] <MattyXM> * MattyXM photoshops
[13:59:14] <Dave911> Did Cradek use a kit on that mill screen?
[14:00:17] <MattyXM> retrofit ones usually come with an bezel enhancer
[14:00:49] <MattyXM> or they used to, now you can buy just the bare panel
[14:02:19] <Dave911> Totally unrelated.... chucking reamers.. ala MSC supply.. Are the import reamers any good.. is it worth $10 more to buy the US made ones ?
[14:02:20] <Dave911> MSC has a promo code for 35% off reamers, taps, and drill.... code "TAPDRL35W" through tomorrow the 16th
[14:02:49] <Dave911> That makes them quite a bit cheaper than Enco on many things...
[14:04:19] <Dave911> And free ground shipping - code "SUPERSHIPW" through the 16th. I don't know if you can combine the promos or not.
[14:06:36] <cradek> I made the panel
[14:21:19] <MattyMatt> bleh 2kg crucible means 2kg of gold
[14:23:52] <MattyMatt> that's 100cc
[14:24:29] <cradek> today that's about $100,000 worth of gold
[14:24:34] <MattyMatt> or a very small lathebed
[14:24:36] <cradek> why do you need that?
[14:24:54] <MattyMatt> bugger the gold. I want the crucible :)
[14:27:40] <MattyMatt> ok I'll take the gold instead, and buy a lathe
[14:30:14] <JB> JB is now known as Jotabe
[14:31:09] <cradek> those codes didn't reduce the price of the kurt anglock (which is $100 lower anywhere else)...
[14:31:23] <Jotabe> Hello, can i use an external position controller on emc2?
[14:31:38] <cradek> what is an external position controller?
[14:32:08] <Jotabe> i only tell im the position an he controls the motor
[14:32:18] <Jotabe> has pid builtin
[14:32:54] <Jotabe> that way i dont need fast pulses from emc
[14:34:07] <celeron55> yes you can, if emc has a driver for it or you make one for it 8)
[14:34:53] <Jotabe> how can i get the position from emc2 without the realtime? because that way i dont really need it.
[14:35:42] <archivist> you need realtime for quality
[14:36:13] <Jotabe> but that is being checked by my external position controller
[14:37:20] <celeron55> so what is that "external position controller" you're talking about?
[14:38:32] <Jotabe> i wanted something like this, i send the position to the external controller and only when he is close enough the target i want to feed the next position
[14:38:41] <Jotabe> sorry, my english is bad :p
[14:39:18] <archivist> emc has the loops and trajectory planner no need for external
[14:41:33] <skunkworks_> jotabe: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign
[14:41:39] <Jotabe> i have a nanotec plug&drive can you give a quick check?
[14:42:25] <Jotabe> http://en.nanotec.com/steppermotor_PD6N89.html
[14:44:05] <archivist> you can use the clock and direction
[14:44:20] <Jotabe> That was my fear
[14:44:34] <celeron55> i guess you can use those just as servos also
[14:44:49] <celeron55> somehow
[14:45:08] <celeron55> if it outputs the position
[14:45:20] <Jotabe> for using just as servos? Is there a special driver for that?
[14:45:42] <Jotabe> yes it output the position, but at 19200baud
[14:45:47] <celeron55> it has analog in, at least, you'd also need some encoder output (don't know if they have or not)
[14:49:14] <Jotabe> they have rs485 but i think it is not fast enough, it is because of that i wanted a slower cycle from emc
[14:51:29] <celeron55> where is the protocol specification?
[14:51:56] <celeron55> if it's just serial data, someone could write a driver for them
[14:53:35] <Jotabe> and if i create that driver is it fast enough for emc?
[14:53:36] <celeron55> provided that the specification is available... and he has a motor
[14:53:57] <Jotabe> yes i have the protocol specification
[14:54:06] <Jotabe> and i have the motor
[14:54:52] <celeron55> i guess the driver would be best written to use the torque mode input and some position output and drive it as a servo
[14:55:04] <celeron55> or maybe not
[14:55:31] <celeron55> ...you probably should just feed the position to it
[14:56:01] <Jotabe> but is 19200bps suficient?
[14:56:28] <celeron55> why wouldn't it be
[14:57:08] <celeron55> (assuming that the protocol isn't overly bloated)
[14:58:25] <celeron55> and also, i know pretty much nothing about emc and about controlling stuff with it, i'm just hoping someone will correct me if i'm wrong 8)
[14:59:04] <celeron55> emc has a servo thread and a step generating thread
[14:59:40] <celeron55> you probably will want to not use the step thread and control stuff at the rate of the slower servo thread
[15:00:00] <Jotabe> http://en.nanotec.com/technology_programming.htmll
[15:00:04] <Jotabe> on this page there is the protocol
[15:00:47] <Jotabe> i think i understand
[15:01:37] <celeron55> you probably should start with reading about the driver api's provided by emc
[15:02:58] <Jotabe> thank you a lot, i will start studying the api
[15:03:18] <celeron55> try asking in #emc-devel
[15:03:24] <celeron55> that's the developer channel
[15:06:35] <celeron55> do they sell an RS232 adapter for those motors?
[15:06:38] <celeron55> or something like that
[15:07:00] <Jotabe> they have a rs485 to rs232 converter
[15:07:28] <Jotabe> but it is easy to do it yourself, pretty standard
[15:11:27] <celeron55> i'm not sure if it's recommended to use the standard pc serial ports with emc, but i guess it's ok for that purpose
[15:12:37] <Jotabe> if that won't work i have to go digital
[15:15:27] <celeron55> also, you could bit-bang the serial data to a parallel port
[15:16:02] <celeron55> though 19200bps is quite fast for that
[15:17:10] <celeron55> (not actually possible without a machine with good realtime performance, i guess)
[15:17:59] <Jotabe> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_emc2hal.html
[15:19:17] <Jotabe> here it sais it needs realtime but realtime at wich interval? Can it be miliseconds? And if i work with lower feeding speeds?
[15:22:59] <celeron55> you probably will want to read this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Components
[15:30:43] <celeron55> i think the drivers are written as hal modules
[15:31:32] <celeron55> reading the current drivers "Hardware Drivers" might be useful: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
[15:31:36] <celeron55> and then reading the source of them
[15:31:47] <celeron55> none of them use RS232, so it will probably be a problem
[15:32:10] <celeron55> i think it's not usable through hal
[15:32:45] <Jotabe> So the only way to interface EMCMOT is through HAL, right?
[15:36:47] <celeron55> well, my current assumption is 'yes'
[15:38:53] <Jotabe> I will check the example sources and study the HAL api, thank you.
[15:40:42] <celeron55> did you find documentation for writing hal modules?
[15:40:52] <celeron55> (i didn't)
[15:43:01] <cradek> Jotabe: please read http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign
[15:43:07] <danimal_garage> mornin
[15:43:31] <danimal_garage> i cant seem to get my 7i37 working... i'm not sure what i'm missing
[15:44:32] <Jotabe> cradek: i read, it says on the end that is not possible but it doesn't say in wich case
[15:45:08] <danimal_garage> seems to be the right output and the right pin #, but no workie
[15:47:22] <celeron55> Jotabe: i guess one possibility is to write firmware for a hostmot2 card which does the serial control
[15:48:12] <celeron55> (emc has support for them and they're used quite often with higher end emc setups, so support is good)
[15:48:27] <cradek> a system that sends position commands over serial is not a good match for EMC for the reasons described at that URL
[15:48:47] <danimal_garage> now if i had my hal configured correctly, when i do dmesg, would it say something other than "IO pin XXX (PX-XX) : IOPORT" if it's supposed to be a GPIO used to turn on spindle??
[15:49:26] <cradek> IOPORT is just a general purpose pin that you can make an input or output and then link signals to, in HAL
[15:49:35] <celeron55> cradek: would controlling them with a hostmot card be a better idea?
[15:49:59] <danimal_garage> yea i know, i was just curious if it's retitled at all when you are using that pin
[15:49:59] <cradek> celeron55: that does not change the fundamental problems
[15:50:20] <cradek> danimal_garage: no, those messages are printed when the firmware is loaded, before any connections are made
[15:50:37] <celeron55> hmm, maybe the only working idea then is to use the step/dir control of the motors
[15:50:38] <cradek> danimal_garage: it just means it's a general purpose pin, not a pwm output or encoder input or something like that
[15:50:46] <danimal_garage> ok
[15:50:48] <danimal_garage> thanks
[15:51:17] <danimal_garage> just trying to figure out if it's my config or if it's hardware issues
[15:51:23] <cradek> you haven't said what the problem is, and what you have done to troubleshoot
[15:51:24] <Jotabe> cradek: is it possible to run the servo thread slower?
[15:51:29] <celeron55> cradek: what about driving them like servos, as they have position output and torque input? that sure ruins the idea of a stepper but... :P
[15:51:31] <cradek> Jotabe: you can run it at any speed.
[15:53:46] <danimal_garage> cradek: i've tested impedence between output 0+ and output 0- on my 7i37 and there's nothing when i turn on or off the spindle via axis
[15:54:25] <cradek> this is plugged into a 5i20?
[15:54:31] <danimal_garage> yes
[15:54:38] <cradek> which connector?
[15:54:40] <danimal_garage> p2
[15:54:47] <danimal_garage> sorry p3
[15:55:17] <cradek> which gpio hal pin is that?
[15:55:30] <danimal_garage> supposed to be 033 i believe
[15:56:21] <danimal_garage> the 7i37 manual says it's the #33 pin on the 50 pin connector
[15:56:21] <cradek> no, that can't be right
[15:56:23] <Jotabe> cradek: So the limit they 200us limit they talk on the page can be whatever i want, since i limit the feeding speed of the milling. Right?
[15:57:04] <cradek> Jotabe: sort of. if your servo period is slow, your path following will be bad
[15:57:27] <danimal_garage> opps
[15:57:34] <cradek> danimal_garage: look at your dmesg again
[15:57:37] <danimal_garage> supposed to be 40, huh
[15:57:50] <cradek> yeah looks like
[15:57:52] <danimal_garage> thats what happens when i work on stuff at midnight
[15:58:18] <danimal_garage> thanks, i'll try it now
[15:58:25] <cradek> also make sure you have setp hm2_5i20.0.gpio.040.is_output 1 and setp hm2_5i20.0.gpio.040.invert_output 1
[15:58:36] <cradek> or at least I think you want the invert - you will have to test
[15:59:02] <cradek> yep it is 040: hm2/hm2_5i20.0: IO Pin 040 (P3-33): IOPort
[16:00:47] <Jotabe> cradek: Now i think i understand, I must have say 10x faster servo period than my (smallest curve)/(feeding rate)
[16:01:41] <cradek> Jotabe: not sure what the derivation is, but for normal machine tools I think you want around 1kHz, and for very fast machine tools you may want higher
[16:02:56] <cradek> Jotabe: also consider that if your motors are positon controlled, even if you give them the new position command at the same time (which you probably can't with serial) they will not give coordinated motion. you really want velocity control.
[16:05:04] <mozmck_work> is freenode booting everyone or what?
[16:05:27] <cradek> yeah it's been bad lately
[16:05:57] <cradek> they walled earlier with an apology and they said they're working on it
[16:06:04] <mozmck_work> I see, it didn't boot me last couple of times, wonder why?
[16:07:10] <cradek> don't know how it all works...
[16:07:20] <Jotabe> cradek: my ideia is to send them to axis inverting point's the cyclically change the speed. Do you think this is correct?
[16:07:51] <cradek> I don't understand what you mean by that
[16:08:48] <danimal_garage> works now, thanks cradek
[16:08:55] <cradek> yay
[16:09:01] <cradek> now you're cookin
[16:09:13] <danimal_garage> now i gotta setup the flood coolant
[16:10:51] <Jotabe> cradek: I send them to the next position where they invert the running direction and in that trajectory i control the speed to fit emc trajectory. Basically it is speed controlling.
[16:14:40] <Jotabe> Thank you guys learned and lot.
[16:28:52] <eric_unterhausen> I feel bad now, McMaster did send me my order on time. The even sent bonus parts, but they are rubber air springs and they're stinking up the house
[16:33:16] <eric_unterhausen> wow, they cost hundreds
[16:53:07] <jimbo8388> Eric: I was successful in getting 2 interfaces up. with one being on a 2nd machine. 100mb net not quite fast enough for axis I am going to try a 1 gig net and see if that is workable.
[17:01:31] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[17:13:37] <JT-Work> 5i20 , 7i33, 7i37's are on the way :)
[17:15:01] <jimbo8388_> jimbo8388_ is now known as jimbo8388
[17:19:00] <Jymmm> T-Mobile stores are running a pre-paid promo... Nokia phone + 135 minutes + new number for $15
[18:49:20] <danimal_garage> hmm i'm missing somethnig here... i have my coolant working, but i want to add an external button on my front pannel as an override. I tried doing it how i thought would work but it says hal pin iocontrol.0.coolant-flood was already linked
[18:50:20] <danimal_garage> which it is, i guess, but i dont see how to do it otherwise
[18:50:42] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, as the europeans among us are already aware from earlier, we are experiencing heavy DDoS directed at several locations. For further information please /mode yournick +w or join #freenode. Thank you for your patience.
[19:07:36] <cradek> Use Promo Code: HLD99 - Free UPS Shipping & SAVETEN - 10% Discount
[19:07:40] <cradek> ^ enco
[19:16:59] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[19:33:32] <cradek> (in case people missed it) Enco: Use Promo Code: HLD99 - Free UPS Shipping & SAVETEN - 10% Discount
[19:34:35] <issy> hi all
[19:34:38] <cradek> hi issy
[19:35:27] <cradek> that gets the kurt D675 I want down to $368 shipped - but I still can't quite push the 'buy' button
[19:40:33] <danimal_garage> thanks cradek
[19:41:17] <danimal_garage> i'm having issues configuring hal for my push buttons
[19:41:24] <cradek> rarely, they have 20% off but no free shipping - for heavy stuff this is probably the best deal they ever give
[19:42:40] <danimal_garage> i got the estop to work, but i cant get feed hold, run, coolant, or spindle on to work
[19:44:38] <danimal_garage> the estop is like this: net estop-loop {board name and pin number} iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[19:45:42] <bill20r3> dooo iiiiit.
[19:46:33] <danimal_garage> and i would assume the other buttons would be similar, so for coolant i thought it would be like "coolant-flood [board name and pin number] iocontrol.0.flood-control
[19:47:39] <danimal_garage> i think iocontrol.0.flood-control is wrong, but i have yet to find what it's supposed to be
[19:48:51] <cradek> don't guess pin names. use the hal tools to see what they really are.
[19:49:13] <danimal_garage> i figured that but i have yet to see a list of hal names
[19:49:16] <cradek> for instance, you can start halmeter and scroll through the list. or, run halshow. or, run 'halcmd show' at the shell
[19:49:30] <danimal_garage> ah
[19:52:13] <Linuxboy> I know this is covered in the FAQ, but i was wondering if there's anything new or possible; does the EMC architecture support replacing the code responsible for outputting realtime pulses? I'd love to know that USB output to a buffered USB microcontroller for pulse generation was possible someday.
[19:54:14] <cradek> Linuxboy: same answer as always - you'd lose a lot of features of emc for no good reason - we already have several external pulse generators that work perfectly and are not the unfortunate compromise that a usb solution would be.
[19:55:30] <Vq_> Vq_ is now known as Vq
[19:55:36] <cradek> some people seem to want a buffered usb solution anyway - of course it could be done, it's free/open source software
[19:56:06] <Linuxboy> "external pulse generators" may be the key phrase that i'm looking for. i'm not tied to USB in any way, i'd just love to get rid of the reatime latency problem.
[19:58:03] <archivist_emc> the person that needs usb most needs to write a synchronous bidirectional driver only available un usb2 iirc
[19:59:07] <archivist_emc> the usb2 docs are a heavy read
[20:00:10] <cradek> ok what is the problem you're trying to solve exactly? you have a machine with high latency?
[20:04:46] <Linuxboy> i have a machine with great latency until i try to do more with it like remotely control it from my bedroom over ethernet.
[20:13:29] <Linuxboy> no, i'd want opensource openhardware still. :)
[20:13:31] <cradek> the pci mesa solution is superior to any usb device, and we have it today, and it's affordable, and it doesn't compromise any of what emc can do
[20:13:31] <Linuxboy> pic and arm both have plenty of usb capable controllers.
[20:13:33] <cradek> (true it is not open source hardware, but then neither is any existing usb step generator that I know of)
[20:13:34] <Linuxboy> i will look at that. does it eliminate the need for realtime so that EMC can run as just another program under any old distro?
[20:13:34] <cradek> no
[20:13:35] <cradek> it loosens the requirements somewhat though, since you only need a servo cycle thread
[20:13:37] <cradek> software step generation is what causes the tight requirements that are sometimes a pain
[20:13:54] <Linuxboy> so otherwise really bad numbers would work, that's a step in the right direction.
[20:14:08] <cradek> well depends what you mean by really bad
[20:14:22] <cradek> there are some machines that are unsuitable to run even a servo cycle
[20:14:53] <cradek> some machines (especially laptops) will stop doing what you tell them for 0.1 seconds
[20:14:57] <cradek> (!!!)
[20:15:11] <cradek> you are just not going to be able to use that machine
[20:16:22] <Linuxboy> old p3 desktops are getting more rare in my world, if this one craps out, i'd probably have to buy a new mb/cpu which probably means core2duo.
[20:16:27] <cradek> my mill moves 3/4 inch in that time!
[20:17:44] <Linuxboy> 0.1 sec is nothing to most people, i can see why lappys might be built like that for general consumption.
[20:17:46] <cradek> er up to 1.3 inches in that time, I guess
[20:18:07] <cradek> Linuxboy: right, but useless for machine control
[20:18:13] <Linuxboy> yep
[20:19:00] <Linuxboy> which mesa card do you use, or recommend?
[20:19:17] <cradek> I have three 5i20
[20:19:23] <danimal_garage> ok i got the flood on with the button....but it doesnt shut off via the button. It isnt a momentary pushbutton, it's latched
[20:19:24] <cradek> but all their stuff is good.
[20:20:15] <cradek> danimal_garage: that's not what you want, because you can't control it from the gui and/or gcode then. what you want is a button for on and another one for off. also, a bidirectional center-off momentary toggle is nice for that.
[20:21:35] <danimal_garage> so momentary, huh
[20:22:12] <danimal_garage> i was thinking about running another pin to the n/c part of the button for coolant off
[20:22:39] <cradek> Linuxboy: according to http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test there are core2duo systems that work great
[20:22:48] <danimal_garage> but i guess you're right
[20:22:58] <Linuxboy> cradek: thanks. will look into it as one of the long term possiblities. today is just thinking about the future more than planning anything specific.
[20:25:50] <danimal_garage> cradek: it looks like it doesnt have to be momentary
[20:26:43] <danimal_garage> the button can be overrided
[20:26:50] <danimal_garage> even if latched
[20:27:01] <cradek> sure but that's a crappy "user experience"
[20:27:24] <danimal_garage> i dont follow
[20:27:46] <cradek> another thing to consider is a 3 position switch off/auto/on - just hardwire it
[20:28:28] <Linuxboy> cradek: yeah some are better than what i was seeing. now that i see that chart again i remember being in the 13K jitter neighborhood and jumping to 33k when any ethernet was connected.
[20:28:34] <danimal_garage> i thought about that but i'm really treying to learn how to configure this
[20:28:44] <danimal_garage> trying*
[20:28:50] <cradek> Linuxboy: 33k is fine unless you need very fast software step generation
[20:29:19] <cradek> Linuxboy: often people worry about those numbers even though they're working on very low performance stepper machines where it doesn't matter one bit
[20:29:51] <danimal_garage> with the way i have it now, i can ovveride the program with the button, and i can override the button with the program
[20:30:14] <Linuxboy> my hope is to get decent rapids but my spreadsheet is on the machine that's not connected so i don't remember the numbers.
[20:30:44] <cradek> if you have the button in, and you program MDI M9, what do you get?
[20:31:09] <cradek> then if you want to turn coolant on with the button but it's already in, what do you do?
[20:31:57] <danimal_garage> push it twice
[20:32:36] <cradek> I think that's a lot of crappiness for want of a proper button, but obviously it's up to you what you do
[20:33:13] <danimal_garage> m8 and m9 override the button
[20:33:44] <danimal_garage> a momentary toggle would be nicer, i agree
[20:34:10] <danimal_garage> but this'll work till i can order one that will fit my pannel
[20:34:36] <danimal_garage> i'm integrating in the existing machine pannel
[20:36:45] <Linuxboy> thanks cradek, i'm out to go play with hardware again. back another day.
[20:45:08] <danimal_garage> so what signal would i use for a run button?
[20:45:22] <danimal_garage> program-line?
[20:48:29] <danimal_garage> when i press my run button is says "cannot do that (emc_task_plan_run) in manual mode
[20:49:39] <kanzure__> kanzure__ is now known as kanzure
[20:50:52] <danimal_garage> i see there is a halui for auto mode, but do i have to have a seperate button for that?
[21:07:02] <archivist_emc> wee just found a lost book :) "Precision Measurement in the Metal Working Industry" its by IBM circa 1952
[21:14:21] <awallin> danimal_garage: I used toggle2nist for interfacing physical momentary-on buttons to halui: http://www.anderswallin.net/2008/04/toggle2nist/
[21:14:42] <awallin> its in emc2 too (at least the git version), not only on my blog
[21:42:33] <L84Supper> archivist_emc: old engineering and tech books are great!
[21:42:45] <archivist_emc> sure are :)
[21:43:50] <archivist_emc> been searching ages for the book... damned sitting on a shelf where it was supposed to be
[21:44:10] <archivist_emc> I forgot the title
[21:44:47] <L84Supper> they were written very clearly
[21:45:28] <L84Supper> funny how the "old" math is still the same :)
[21:45:50] <archivist_emc> I also have one that goes into the process of reconditioning machine tools including the scraping etc
[21:48:54] <archivist_emc> some of the optical techniques still apply
[22:02:45] <L84Supper> heh cuneiform tablets on how those wheels might be the next big thing
[22:06:49] <MattyMatt> well we still use babylonian degrees for angles
[22:07:10] <frallzor> yo yo
[22:07:35] <MattyMatt> and babylonian yoyos yeah :)
[22:07:43] <frallzor> * frallzor slaps MattyMatt around a bit with a large trout
[22:07:58] <frallzor> power of ze trout
[22:08:29] <MattyMatt> mm mIRC. have you ever tried the whiteboard plugin?
[22:08:39] <frallzor> nope
[22:08:58] <MattyMatt> I really should pull my finger out and do a version for xchat
[22:09:48] <MattyMatt> IRC + doodles is loads better, once people stop drawing childish graphitti
[22:12:30] <bill20r3> everything but MS ComicChat it's crap!
[22:12:34] <bill20r3> err, is.
[22:13:39] <MattyMatt> yeah even netmeeting was good in its way
[22:13:48] <bill20r3> haha
[22:13:57] <bill20r3> * bill20r3 re-suppresses that memory.
[22:14:22] <bill20r3> can anyone suggest a [good|free] dxf to stl converter?
[22:14:37] <MattyMatt> blender will do it
[22:15:57] <MattyMatt> iirc it's worse than other solutions with regard to dealing with hatching automatically etc
[22:16:15] <MattyMatt> I forget what the better ideas were
[22:17:53] <MattyMatt> stl is a dreadful format. md2 has more info
[22:23:15] <bill20r3> well, I just need to cut out some dxf's, maybe I'll try that 'dxf2gcode' program. (and lots of hand editing)
[22:37:37] <frallzor> * frallzor throws a kitten at MattyMatt
[23:01:17] <micges> archivist_emc: can you recoment some books about taper on lathe?
[23:02:16] <JT-Work_> JT-Work_ is now known as JT-Work
[23:34:59] <ds3> 8
[23:35:36] <SWPLinux> 9
[23:35:45] <ds3> OverFlow
[23:36:14] <SWPLinux> 3 roll 2 + dup +
[23:36:43] <ds3> BAH RPN
[23:36:47] <SWPLinux> heh
[23:39:55] <ds3> getting fluffy white stuff yet?
[23:47:50] <SWPLinux> no idea, I'm at O'Hare airport