#emc | Logs for 2009-12-05

[00:40:20] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:20:26] <danimal_garage> ugh i just found out spindle bearings are like $540 for my mill
[01:30:04] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[01:43:00] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:53:02] <eric_unterhausen> danimal_garage: I know someone who bought a brand new Bridgeport manual series I, the bearings went out at 3 years, 1 month
[01:53:14] <eric_unterhausen> right after the warranty expired
[01:53:28] <eric_unterhausen> BP sent a guy to replace, cost thousands
[01:53:31] <coldelectrons> A question for the devs: Why is parport mode EPP preferred over ECP?
[01:54:01] <eric_unterhausen> coldelectrons: does that cause any problems?
[01:54:44] <coldelectrons> I'm just curious - I've been reading datasheets, and I can't see exactly why use one over the other
[01:55:16] <eric_unterhausen> just because, that's why
[01:55:26] <eric_unterhausen> usually there is no issue
[01:55:54] <coldelectrons> If I wanted that kind of explanation, I'd go over to #theology :P
[01:55:56] <eric_unterhausen> who wrote the module?
[01:56:43] <coldelectrons> No particular module
[01:57:19] <eric_unterhausen> well, there is no particular dev then I suppose
[01:57:27] <coldelectrons> Just in all the discussion and mailing-list that I've read, EPP is talked about, but I don't ever recall seeing ECP
[01:57:58] <eric_unterhausen> I think that's correct, only one works
[01:58:46] <eric_unterhausen> there may be no particular reason, I wrote some code for an emc device driver once, and I used the pp code that worked
[01:59:05] <coldelectrons> Huh.
[01:59:30] <eric_unterhausen> but some chipsets don't support both modes
[01:59:43] <coldelectrons> If ECP mode could be used, that means all those NetMos parport cards with the EPP timing bug might be usable
[02:01:17] <coldelectrons> I have a couple of Netmos cards, which is why I'm looking into it :)
[02:02:15] <eric_unterhausen> I would prefer the devs spend time on stuff that matters to large numbers of people, and they probably will
[02:04:30] <coldelectrons> This might matter to a large number of people - Netmos cards are quite cheap and prolific
[02:04:46] <coldelectrons> I already know they work fine in SPP mode
[02:05:19] <Jymmm> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NetMos
[02:05:57] <coldelectrons> Yes, Jymmm, I know - I made the original wiki entry
[02:08:40] <Jymmm> \ignore coldelectrons
[02:11:08] <SWPadnos> ECP adds DMA to EPP, which is unnecessary
[02:11:58] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't assume that a card that has a timing error in a slower mode will not have an error in a faster mode
[02:12:31] <coldelectrons> I guess I have more reading to do
[02:13:44] <SWPadnos> well, that's just my understanding of the situation - I might be the one who needs to do more reading
[02:14:28] <SWPadnos> as far as I know, an ECP port simply adds DMA modes to the EPP standard
[02:16:01] <SWPadnos> I have this feeling that I'm about to be corrected
[02:16:14] <pcw_home> :-)
[02:17:32] <pcw_home> EPP and ECP use different handshaking protocols
[02:17:33] <pcw_home> ECP uses 9 wires (well maybe 7 would be enough)
[02:17:35] <pcw_home> for hand shaking, EPP only 4
[02:19:31] <SWPadnos> from a driver standpoint though (specifically a HAL driver that uses all the pins for I/O), they're effectively identical, no?
[02:21:10] <pcw_home> I know the 7I43 cannot easily support ECP, dont know about the Pluto or Jon Elsons stuff
[02:21:11] <pcw_home> I know EPP mode is compatible with SPP mode, not sure about ECP
[02:21:35] <SWPadnos> ok, I guess that's the point anyway
[02:21:58] <SWPadnos> that ECP probably doesn't help in terms of making things more compatible with the HAL parport driver
[02:22:22] <Jymmm> Yeah, it always was a BIOS compatibility issue iirc
[02:22:38] <SWPadnos> (and parenthetically that an EPP timing problem is unlikely to magically disappear in ECP mode)
[02:23:08] <pcw_home> I think the NetMos problem is EPP only
[02:23:42] <SWPadnos> oh. well OK then :)
[02:23:57] <Jymmm> lol
[02:24:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I wanted to ask you something
[02:24:16] <SWPadnos> I really wanted to answer too
[02:24:29] <SWPadnos> but I didn't knowwhat to say
[02:24:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, then can you go ahead and answer, so I can rememebr the quesiton
[02:24:48] <SWPadnos> 42
[02:25:07] <Jymmm> No, I already know the maning of life
[02:25:12] <Jymmm> next
[02:25:17] <SWPadnos> 43?
[02:25:22] <Jymmm> LOL
[02:25:27] <Jymmm> OH I know
[02:25:39] <SWPadnos> some LED thing?
[02:25:40] <Jymmm> anyone pay with ardunio yet
[02:25:43] <Jymmm> play
[02:25:51] <SWPadnos> jepler has, AFAIK
[02:26:34] <Jymmm> oh ok , I just wanted to know if it's worth it, seems to be
[02:27:17] <Jymmm> I was thinking of controling a LM317 usign ardunio like a dimmer flasher
[02:27:27] <Jymmm> am I nuts?
[02:27:32] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:27:37] <Jymmm> why?
[02:27:45] <SWPadnos> oh, just on general principles
[02:27:50] <SWPadnos> your scheme may work fine
[02:28:10] <Jymmm> Well GP I already know <rolls eyes>
[02:28:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:28:41] <Jymmm> ok, so it is realisitc to be able to do this?
[02:29:00] <SWPadnos> no, I don't think so
[02:29:11] <Jymmm> *SMACK*
[02:29:39] <SWPadnos> I believe those regulators work by sinking a small current through the adjustment terminal, something you can't control with a microcontroller
[02:30:22] <SWPadnos> it might work, if the current is just to make a voltage on that terminal, but I'm not sure
[02:30:28] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&ved=0CBUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.national.com%2Fds%2FLM%2FLM117.pdf&ei=ucUZS421DYjWtgP69JD3Bw&usg=AFQjCNHyNOOG7CYQWmoTlg9RaDHV1pMuIA
[02:30:44] <SWPadnos> I'm looking at the datasheet now
[02:32:33] <Jymmm> pg19 has a current limiter
[02:33:55] <Jymmm> bottom of pg20 is sorta what I had in mind
[02:34:51] <Jymmm> oh man, I like "Digitally selected outputs" on pg22
[02:36:38] <SWPadnos> well, sort of
[02:36:53] <SWPadnos> that's a selectable voltage output, not a selectable current limit
[02:37:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well it has a MAX Vout setting too
[02:37:23] <SWPadnos> still not a current limit
[02:38:22] <SWPadnos> not also that in the current-limiting setup, all the current still goes through the resistor, thus not saving any power (but being more accurate with varying load)
[02:38:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, I know you keep saying current limiting, and I know I don't get it, but I'm going to be mix and matching different voltages of LED's and that's how I keep thinking.
[02:38:49] <Jymmm> brb... coffee
[02:38:56] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:41:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: See, If I have a 3VDC PS, and I have two 1.5V LED's in series, I don't get why I need to have to consider current limiting
[02:42:29] <SWPadnos> well, what happens if the supply is at 3.1V, and the LEDs are actually 1.497V @ rated current?
[02:42:59] <SWPadnos> you now have 3.1V across two LEDs that want a total of 2.996V, so the current goes up drastically
[02:43:05] <SWPadnos> err, 2.994
[02:43:18] <Jymmm> ok, it goes poof
[02:43:28] <SWPadnos> well, at least one does, yes
[02:43:31] <SWPadnos> it might save the other one
[02:43:51] <SWPadnos> incidentally, note that the LM317 needs about 3V of supply headroom to provide proper reguilation
[02:43:55] <Jymmm> but I'll have a hard time mix and matching 1.8V@20ma and 3.2V@40ma leds
[02:44:11] <Jymmm> on the same chain
[02:44:14] <SWPadnos> and that power is all dissipated in the LM317 - it's a linear regulator, so the power is I*V
[02:44:29] <SWPadnos> for each chain, you get exactly one current setting
[02:44:47] <SWPadnos> so you wouldn't be able to mix and match, as you said
[02:44:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, which will kinda suck
[02:45:18] <Jymmm> btw, I kinda play it safe in wiring them up, not MAX OUTPUT
[02:46:20] <SWPadnos> I think your best bet is to wire up chains of all LEDs to run from some fixed voltage, say 12V
[02:46:43] <SWPadnos> you use as many LEDs as you can "fit" into 10-11V, and then use a resistor to set the current for that chain
[02:47:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, that was the intension
[02:47:09] <SWPadnos> for the 1.8V ones, you'll get 5 or 6 LEDs in a chain (probably 5, 6 would be too close to the 12V mark)
[02:47:14] <Jymmm> the resistor when I have to customize the chain
[02:47:42] <SWPadnos> yes, each chain of a particular type of LED is already "custom", so it might as well have its own current-limiting resistor
[02:47:43] <Jymmm> Ok, what about uC controlled? PWM ?
[02:47:48] <SWPadnos> sure
[02:48:06] <Jymmm> what to use for that? 2n2222 ?
[02:48:12] <SWPadnos> I have some code that does 16 channels of 8-bit PWM in about 40 CPU cycles on an AVR
[02:48:18] <SWPadnos> sure, or a FET
[02:48:29] <SWPadnos> or a darlington resistor, if you want more current
[02:48:45] <SWPadnos> (I think the FMMT4401 is one such, in an SOT-23 package)
[02:48:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I only know 4 silicon, and I told you two already =)
[02:49:23] <eric_unterhausen> there are open source led current regulators out there, takes a little looking to find them
[02:49:25] <SWPadnos> darlington transistors are basically two BJTs in a single package, so they have current gain in the tens of thousands instead of a few hundred
[02:49:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: so nothing like the uln2003?
[02:49:50] <SWPadnos> no
[02:50:02] <SWPadnos> unless you want relatively low current limits
[02:50:03] <eric_unterhausen> could have feedback
[02:50:48] <Jymmm> * Jymmm checks the ghetto parts house
[02:51:03] <SWPadnos> http://www.instructables.com/id/EK2XAPS11GEWOF2YSD/
[02:51:43] <eric_unterhausen> or for $30 you can have a maxflex that does whatever you want
[02:51:45] <Jymmm> I'm goig to assm those 3 leds are all the same specs
[02:51:52] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: ?
[02:51:56] <eric_unterhausen> or for $20 you can have a buckpack that does whatever you want
[02:52:03] <SWPadnos> the voltage doesn't matter, only the current
[02:52:11] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: links or they dont exist
[02:52:27] <eric_unterhausen> ok, one minute
[02:52:35] <SWPadnos> which is also true when you make your own 12V chains - you can use 2x3.1V + 2x1.8V if you like
[02:52:56] <SWPadnos> as long as the currents are the same
[02:52:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: cant find that fmmt4401 http://www.taydaelectronics.com/servlet/Categories
[02:53:08] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.taskled.com/order.html
[02:53:33] <eric_unterhausen> voltage source will determine which you want
[02:53:40] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: oh that's way too expensive, but thanks
[02:54:09] <eric_unterhausen> http://ledsupply.com/wired-buckpuck.php
[02:54:29] <SWPadnos> OK, how about this instead: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BCV27TR-ND
[02:54:36] <SWPadnos> (DK is out of stock on the FMMT4401)
[02:54:44] <SWPadnos> (and it's not a darlington either)
[02:54:48] <eric_unterhausen> rob some schoolkid of their lunch money, you can pay for one
[02:55:08] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: I would need one per chain too
[02:55:28] <eric_unterhausen> that could add up
[02:55:31] <Valen> Jymmm what are you trying to do?
[02:57:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what's so different from what you gave to this http://www.taydaelectronics.com/servlet/the-200/ULN2003AN-ULN2003-ARRAY-dsh-7-NPN/Detail
[02:57:35] <Jymmm> other than the contorl pin =)
[02:57:51] <SWPadnos> current, for one
[02:58:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: but i thught we were tlking abotu using a resistor for that
[02:58:41] <SWPadnos> it may not make any difference, but if you want to parallel multiple chains on a single output (say 10 white strings of LEDs that are all one PWM channel), you'll want to have higher current available
[02:58:50] <eric_unterhausen> zetex is the led current regulator chip everyone uses because it's easy
[02:59:19] <Valen> I was after something to run ~100-200 LEDs preferably with variable current, all individually controlled on/off
[03:00:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: OT, but can the ULN series be PWM controlled output, for saw a motor or whatever?
[03:00:23] <Jymmm> s/saw/say/
[03:00:28] <SWPadnos> sure. it's a bundh of transistors
[03:00:30] <SWPadnos> bunch
[03:00:30] <Jymmm> like speed control
[03:00:35] <Valen> making this up for a guy http://www.vapourforge.com/hotness/capri-dash%20MK1.png
[03:01:25] <Jymmm> max2930 iirc 5x7 led driver
[03:01:37] <Jymmm> it's older, abotu $7/ea@1K
[03:01:48] <Jymmm> Valen: ^^^^^
[03:01:54] <Jymmm> you can cascase them too
[03:01:57] <Jymmm> cascade
[03:02:04] <eric_unterhausen> I was just thinking about charlieplexing a batch of leds for a desktop christmas tree
[03:02:47] <Jymmm> it'll control up to 8 5x7
[03:02:47] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: chrliewho?
[03:02:47] <Valen> hmmm, interesting
[03:02:51] <eric_unterhausen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlieplexing
[03:03:59] <eric_unterhausen> I'm impressed I remembered the name this time
[03:04:04] <Jymmm> heh
[03:04:13] <Valen> we made the clock you can see in the backround here
[03:04:15] <Valen> http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/762378/spark.jpg
[03:05:06] <Valen> thats just done with darlingtons
[03:05:22] <Valen> stings of 4 or 5 blue LED's with a resistor on each
[03:05:32] <Valen> 4 strings in parallel per segment
[03:06:12] <Valen> (one resistor per string, I think it was 10 ohms or something like that, more of a "just in case" than anything else)
[03:06:21] <Valen> all our LED's came from one batch though
[03:06:28] <Jymmm> What would you saw the lead gauge is on a 1/4W resistor? 22?
[03:06:35] <Jymmm> s/saw/say/
[03:06:50] <Valen> nfi about guages they dont make sense to me
[03:07:01] <Valen> bout half a mm I'd say
[03:07:17] <Jymmm> that dont mean crap to me =)
[03:07:42] <Jymmm> I just need to know if it's bigger than 22awg
[03:07:45] <Valen> yeah but at least you can measure it
[03:07:52] <Valen> google?
[03:08:14] <Valen> what are you trying to do anyway?
[03:10:15] <SWPadnos> funny. I've done something like charlieplexing for jumper inputs to a microcontroller
[03:10:41] <SWPadnos> standard pull up/down for the jumpers, plus detection of shorting two input pins together for more options
[03:11:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Huh? isn't that sorta pseudo floating?
[03:11:39] <SWPadnos> no
[03:12:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what to you "see" when polling the pins?
[03:12:19] <SWPadnos> as an example, they'd be pulled up in the micro, if a pin is seen as a low, the jumper is installed "normally"
[03:12:49] <SWPadnos> if pairs of adjacent pins are both high, then you output low on one, and see if the next one changes also. if so, they're shorted together
[03:12:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: but what to you "see" when polling the pins? (when shorted together)
[03:13:20] <Jymmm> 110?00
[03:13:29] <SWPadnos> you get 29 combinations on 4 port pins
[03:13:37] <Jymmm> err 11??00
[03:13:53] <SWPadnos> err, no. you need to flip one or more bits to output low and see if the other inputs change as a result
[03:14:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ah, ok
[03:14:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: so it's not the static state, as much is a dymanic state of the pin
[03:14:50] <SWPadnos> yes, it's a dynamic read method that you start using if the number of jumpers turns out not to be ebough :)
[03:14:56] <SWPadnos> enough
[03:14:58] <Jymmm> A=1; If xyz change, there ya go
[03:15:14] <Jymmm> ok, I get it =)
[03:15:26] <SWPadnos> yes. if I read 1111, then look for shorted pins
[03:15:40] <Jymmm> cool
[03:16:43] <Jymmm> I think I'm ging to order a ardruino and the wing thing too
[03:17:20] <Jymmm> but nobody has the wings in stock =(
[03:19:00] <eric_unterhausen> there aren't regular shields with screw terminals?
[03:19:27] <Jymmm> "regular"
[03:19:28] <Jymmm> ?
[03:19:41] <eric_unterhausen> a normal sheild is just one board
[03:19:56] <eric_unterhausen> also spelled shield by the literate among ust
[03:19:59] <Jymmm> I like the fact that you can add/remote it easily
[03:20:04] <Jymmm> remove
[03:20:20] <Jymmm> and you STILL have the normal sockets there too
[03:20:44] <Jymmm> you dont even have to unwire anything
[03:21:49] <eric_unterhausen> funny, the shield layout was a mistake
[03:22:15] <Jymmm> I hate that term "shield" they used for add-on boards
[03:22:25] <eric_unterhausen> too late
[03:22:27] <Jymmm> it's a daughter card damnit!
[03:22:38] <Jymmm> and has been for 40+ years
[03:22:41] <eric_unterhausen> arduino means difficult in italian
[03:23:10] <Jymmm> or daughterboard, either one is fine with me
[03:23:38] <eric_unterhausen> otoh, you know exactly what they are talking about when they say shield
[03:23:38] <Jymmm> and wth is the deal with (what they call software)
[03:23:57] <Jymmm> actualyl no, a shield to me means EMI/RFI shield
[03:24:11] <eric_unterhausen> of course, now they are going to get everyone to call their daughtercards "shields" and the advantage will be lost
[03:24:15] <Jymmm> not a fscking knights of the round table crap
[03:26:02] <Valen> I like daughters
[03:26:07] <Valen> MUWHAHAH
[03:26:11] <SWPadnos> jymmm: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps61042.pdf
[03:26:19] <SWPadnos> $2.00 or so each from DigiKey
[03:26:38] <eric_unterhausen> zetex I say
[03:26:40] <SWPadnos> the big advantage being that they actually have a step-up regulator inside
[03:27:40] <SWPadnos> oh - that TI part was just in one of my tabs. I figured I'd say something before shutting it down :
[03:27:42] <SWPadnos> :)
[03:28:18] <eric_unterhausen> actually, there may be better chips
[03:28:30] <eric_unterhausen> but in the diy led world they all use zetex
[03:28:54] <eric_unterhausen> there used to be something called the LEDuino, but I'm not finding it
[04:24:41] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: links or they don't exist =)
[04:25:38] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, I guess I could wire a resistor to each led, but I don't think any of these are going to be able to handle mixed led types
[04:26:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Consider the RGB LED's as example red is what 1.8 and blue is like 3.2v or soemthing like that
[04:26:58] <Jymmm> If I overvolt the led, it's gonna blow
[04:27:56] <SWPadnos> it's overcurrent that blows them
[04:28:10] <SWPadnos> (though too high a voltage causes too much current, so more or less same thing)
[04:28:47] <Jymmm> if the red needs 20ma and the blue needs 40ma, limiting current might make the red dim, no?
[04:29:00] <Jymmm> err blue I mean
[04:29:02] <SWPadnos> you wouldn't run them in series
[04:29:40] <SWPadnos> so you would have all reds on a chain (supply voltage permitting), all blues on another chain (with its own current set resistor) and all greens on another chain
[04:29:51] <Jymmm> Well how can I mix different coltage leds in parallel?
[04:30:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I want to mix types of leds in the same string
[04:30:22] <SWPadnos> unless you can't do that due to the LED pinout, in which case you'd have to use a constant current (or current-settable) scanning driver
[04:30:41] <Jymmm> $$$
[04:30:55] <Jymmm> I will if I REALLY have to, but that's $8/ea
[04:31:02] <Jymmm> mroe for RGB
[04:31:08] <Jymmm> more for RGB driver
[04:31:28] <SWPadnos> well it depends on the devices you use
[04:31:52] <SWPadnos> something with RGB LEDs and 4 terminals can't be chained, because it has a common cathode or anode
[04:36:58] <danimal_garage> i have a choice of 2 computers for my next emc conversion, one is an asus board powered by an amd xp2800 and the other is a dell tower powered by a 2.6ghz pentium 4 without hyperthreading. both have 1gb ram. I realize it comes down to the latencey test, but do either stand out as better for emc?
[04:37:33] <danimal_garage> both have integrated sound and video, but i have a radeon card i can use
[04:39:57] <danimal_garage> i'm excited, all i need is a couple more pieces to do the conversion
[04:40:37] <eric_unterhausen> probably the amd
[04:40:59] <danimal_garage> any good reason?
[04:41:25] <eric_unterhausen> intel architecture was controlled by idiots until fairly recently
[04:42:01] <SWPadnos> I'd say whichever one does better on the latency test is probably better
[04:42:11] <SWPadnos> either has way more CPU than you need
[04:42:24] <danimal_garage> cool, thanks
[04:42:34] <danimal_garage> yea, the price was right on both
[04:42:48] <eric_unterhausen> do the test, but you asked for a guess
[04:42:51] <danimal_garage> one was a dumpster find, and the other i basically got free with a monitor
[04:43:29] <danimal_garage> yea, I was just curious if one consistently outperforms the other
[04:43:52] <eric_unterhausen> no, it depends on the motherboard pretty much
[04:44:13] <danimal_garage> the amd box has windows installed with all my cad software, so i'd rather use the dell if possible
[04:44:17] <eric_unterhausen> but intel decided latency didn't matter, marketing did
[04:44:24] <danimal_garage> ha
[04:44:30] <eric_unterhausen> do it with the livecd
[04:44:36] <danimal_garage> oh yea, huh
[04:44:40] <danimal_garage> good idea, thanks
[04:44:48] <tom3p> cool, i modified siggen to get a new wave. the hal manual showed how to make x&y run circles with sine & cosine. i added 'xbox' 'ybox' which walk around a box rather than walk around a circle. (good for edm :)
[04:45:44] <eric_unterhausen> i'm going to ride my bike 200k tomorrow, why am i not in bed sleeping?
[04:46:20] <tom3p> wow, whats your average pedals/minute?
[04:46:37] <danimal_garage> you should be drinking
[04:46:37] <eric_unterhausen> i dunno, I take forever, that's the secret
[04:46:54] <danimal_garage> dirt or road?
[04:47:01] <eric_unterhausen> snow
[04:47:05] <danimal_garage> haha
[04:47:14] <eric_unterhausen> road
[04:47:14] <danimal_garage> so road i take it
[04:47:40] <danimal_garage> still a healthy ride
[04:47:43] <eric_unterhausen> hopefully it will just be flurries
[04:47:58] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, people always tell me it's a short ride
[04:48:07] <tom3p> had friends ride a lot in taiwan, they had very high rates while i thought big low gears was cool, theyd always be pedalling fast, on flat on hills, just always.
[04:48:30] <eric_unterhausen> which it is in comparison to 300k, 400k and 600k like we often ride
[04:48:47] <danimal_garage> whats that in miles
[04:49:07] <SWPadnos> 120
[04:49:12] <SWPadnos> (for the 200k)
[04:49:13] <danimal_garage> thanks
[04:49:37] <danimal_garage> i'm bad with the metric systyem
[04:49:43] <SWPadnos> apparently
[04:49:44] <danimal_garage> and spelling apparently
[04:50:10] <tom3p> SWPadnos: this is fun, if i change the amplitude, i change the side of the square, and it 'expands'
[04:50:42] <SWPadnos> yes. around the center even
[04:50:46] <danimal_garage> the most i've ridden at one time is 100 miles, but that was in Brian Head, Utah on dirt
[04:51:02] <danimal_garage> on a single speed
[04:52:27] <tom3p> SWPadnos: no not about center yet, thats on the todo list. if i begin a circle or sqr using sin/cos/xbox/ybox, its assumed i'm on the perimeter
[04:52:33] <eric_unterhausen> that's ridiculous
[04:52:48] <danimal_garage> what is?
[04:52:52] <SWPadnos> oh - I thought you were using siggen
[04:53:03] <SWPadnos> (which I thought would expand around zero)
[04:53:17] <eric_unterhausen> 100 miles on dirt
[04:53:28] <tom3p> SWPadnos: yes i rebuilt siggen to do sqrs, siggen begins on perimeter
[04:53:39] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[04:53:46] <SWPadnos> did you add a phase parameter/pin?
[04:53:50] <danimal_garage> no worse than 600k on road lol
[04:54:05] <eric_unterhausen> I rode 375 miles in 32 hours back in may
[04:54:14] <danimal_garage> it was a race, the brian head epic 100
[04:54:39] <danimal_garage> took me 9 hours 6 minutes
[04:54:50] <danimal_garage> 32 hours is a long time on a bike
[04:54:52] <eric_unterhausen> danimal_garage: I figured, nobody rides 100 miles on dirt except for a race
[04:55:10] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, my night riding companions were slow
[04:55:11] <tom3p> SWPadnos: 2 new pins one, theyre 90 degree out of phase truncated triangle waves ( clipped & out of phase so one axis stops while other moves )
[04:55:24] <danimal_garage> we rode 60 for fun last week
[04:55:36] <tom3p> SWPadnos: 'walkin the dog'
[04:55:50] <SWPadnos> oh - I was thinking of a phase pin that would offset all the waveforms by that fraction of a cycle
[04:55:52] <danimal_garage> not too many miles, but there was 12k feet in elevation gain
[04:56:10] <SWPadnos> then you could set one siggen to 90 degrees offset, and use any of the waveforms
[04:56:58] <tom3p> SWPadnos: its built in, sorta, there's a % of done he called 'index' , it goes 0 to .999999 in one cycle, you just offset from that to get phase shift
[04:57:27] <danimal_garage> hopefully the new compressor is loadas quieter than my old one
[04:57:58] <tom3p> SWPadnos: the big change is that just phase wouldnt do a square motion, you need to stop x when y moves, thus the truncation
[04:58:12] <eric_unterhausen> danimal_garage: what compressor?
[04:58:16] <eric_unterhausen> I need one
[04:58:18] <SWPadnos> err - the square wave should do that
[04:58:34] <danimal_garage> picked up a new compressor today.... a 80 gallon curtis
[04:58:36] <SWPadnos> if you offset one by 90 degrees (unless you're using it as velocity)
[04:58:50] <tom3p> SWPadnos: no his sqr is bipolar +/- 1 not ttl ish like 0 1
[04:59:20] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:59:20] <danimal_garage> i was running a 20 gallon piece of junk from autozone
[04:59:22] <eric_unterhausen> danimal_garage: is it a rotary screwjob?
[04:59:44] <danimal_garage> na, 2 stage 3 cylnder
[05:00:03] <eric_unterhausen> the lbs has an old compressor that makes no noise
[05:00:06] <danimal_garage> i'm too poor for a screw compressor
[05:00:13] <eric_unterhausen> how much was yours?
[05:00:32] <danimal_garage> i got a killer deal on it, the guy didnt know what it was worth
[05:00:38] <danimal_garage> $175
[05:00:41] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[05:00:44] <eric_unterhausen> ho
[05:01:00] <danimal_garage> it's a $1700 unit, and it's only 4 years old
[05:02:14] <eric_unterhausen> how many horse?
[05:03:02] <danimal_garage> 5
[05:03:04] <danimal_garage> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/DSCN0725.jpg
[05:03:31] <eric_unterhausen> are those mufflers?
[05:03:47] <danimal_garage> yup
[05:06:52] <danimal_garage> i dont really have room for it, but i guess i'll make some
[05:07:17] <danimal_garage> i guess once i ditch the GE controller on my lathe, it'll fit
[05:10:04] <tom3p> SWPadnos: i was thinking of adding a second amplitude input so sine & cosine could generate ellipses, so xbox, ybox could create rectangles
[05:10:18] <SWPadnos> just use two siggens
[05:10:26] <tom3p> will they sync?
[05:10:52] <SWPadnos> I would think so, if you (a) connect the enables to the same signal and (b) run them in the same thread
[05:11:05] <SWPadnos> and of course set them to the same frequency
[05:11:18] <tom3p> yep sounds interesting, but will look into that later
[05:12:04] <SWPadnos> that was the scheme I was envisioning for the 90 degree offset square (or whatever) waves
[05:12:34] <tom3p> next i want them to expand to a radius/side and return to center nicely ( driven by external voltage )
[05:13:08] <SWPadnos> sure - connect amplitude to the external voltage, and they expand around the center already
[05:13:21] <SWPadnos> so when amplitude goes to 0, they go to center
[05:14:26] <SWPadnos> I'll bet if you run an axis output into the offset input (which was a parameter, but may now be a pin), you'll have a variable orbital offset to the commanded machine position
[05:15:21] <tom3p> still trying to grok that
[05:15:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:16:26] <SWPadnos> it may be better to use an external sum2 - that way you can ensure that the offsets are disabled by disabling the siggen
[05:16:36] <SWPadnos> which would set the offset to zero, not the axis position ...
[05:17:21] <tom3p> i'm not using emc at all
[05:17:25] <tom3p> just hal
[05:17:36] <SWPadnos> oh. well a sum2 is still appropriate for the same reason
[05:17:59] <SWPadnos> whatever generates the axis position would then have a "pass through with no offset" option simply by disabling the siggen
[05:31:46] <tom3p> i didnt think it'd return to zero, but i had been just slammin new radii into it. if you walk thru the values from 0.001 to 5 nicely, and then back, it looks like it returns. thats great
[05:31:55] <tom3p> mm
[05:32:39] <tom3p> time to document, remove debugs, & get to sleep, thx SWP
[05:32:51] <tom3p> logger_emc: bookmark
[05:32:51] <tom3p> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-12-05.txt
[10:43:38] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[12:30:59] <ries> hey all, if I buy a mini desktop PC with integrated video card, would this be a problem for EMC2? I would like to have one of these because fits in my control box
[12:32:49] <archivist_emc> take a live cd to the seller and test latency
[12:33:16] <archivist_emc> some integrated videos are a problem
[12:35:08] <ries> archivist_emc not a bad idea... next week I am going to the US and hoping to buy something affordable...
[12:35:54] <ries> is a system of 350 USD a good deal?? last time I bought a PC was Hmmmm 8 years ago, and I got it from my employer
[12:36:38] <archivist_emc> I use old freebee pc's for emc
[12:36:40] <jthornton> I usually build my own from parts
[12:40:18] <ries> I just want a nice closure so it fits in my control box next to the rest of the electronics... I could buy it from pats, but still I would need to buy parts and the mini enclosure for the PC...
[12:40:31] <ries> we don't have freebee PC's here in this country...
[12:47:15] <alex_joni> then try looking for one that has known latency results
[12:47:32] <alex_joni> there's a list that you can find at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/
[12:48:06] <jthornton> I get barebones from http://stores.ebay.com/MICRO-ONE-COMPUTERS
[12:48:18] <jthornton> parts from newegg usually
[12:50:35] <ries> well, I don't have easy access to online stores :s
[12:55:45] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:02:22] <jthornton> alex_joni: I went with a script and used the ftp command to upload the image of the lathe control
[13:03:13] <jthornton> I have to use Cheese atm to capture the picture LOL as I have not got any of the command line capture programs to work
[13:56:44] <Valen> ey swpadnos, any ideas on the Z axis being heavy and how to deal with that wrt tuning PID loops?
[13:57:36] <Valen> or anybody else for that matter
[14:19:02] <MrSunshine> fail on casting :/
[14:19:14] <MrSunshine> and i blame the foam :P
[14:19:29] <MrSunshine> to dense foam
[14:19:34] <MrSunshine> and BAD finnish on the piece :/
[14:26:37] <tom3p> ries: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5530098&CatId=332 or , if you have hd cd &vid already http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5367062&CatId=332 these mobos are listed at wiki as passing the latency tests acceptably. cheap too.
[14:42:13] <ries> tom3p: I will try to find a store were they sell that stuff, the computer case is rather big though
[14:50:36] <coldelectrons> Has anyone here used the debian lenny packages on the wiki?
[14:52:49] <Dave911> Valen: Counterweight the Z axis ???
[14:54:37] <Dave911> I don't know if it would work with EMC2 or not but sometime on a system with a big force offset like you are describing, the tuning parameters are changed based on the direction of the axis movement.
[14:54:39] <Dave911> That is pretty common in hydraulic servo system where one side of a cylinder has more surface areas than the other side due to the cylinder rod.
[14:55:53] <Dave911> Of course if you don't want to go fast or have fast response you can tune it as a compromise in both directions
[14:56:18] <coldelectrons> Hm...everything seems to be working (latency tests, etc), but I'm getting a bunch of "HAL: Error: Could not open shared memory" and stuff
[15:02:13] <tom3p> Valen: gas spring counterbalances ( new machinery uses them rather than counterbalances ) http://www.hysonproducts.com/liftstrutcounterbalance_hyson.html http://www.kaller.com/web/Hem.aspx counterbalances are cheap tho
[15:50:16] <Dave911> Valen: You can also use an air cylinder to counterbalance a heavy axis, use a decent size accumulation tank to feed the cylinder and put an air regulator on the accumulation tank - makes a good controllable balancer.
[15:50:36] <alex_joni> jthornton: I think the problem is that the cam is only supported by v4l2 not v4l
[15:50:44] <alex_joni> and most command line programms assume v4l
[16:08:16] <oPless> you can LD_PRELOAD a v4l app to talk to v4l2 drivers
[17:15:01] <cemede> hi all
[17:20:01] <alex_joni> hi
[17:26:45] <cemede> I trying to move a unipolar stepper motor with an uln2003a, using 4 wire like this http://axis.unpythonic.net/etchcn, What configuration I need to apply to emc2?
[17:27:15] <cemede> sorry, this http://axis.unpythonic.net/etchcnc
[17:40:13] <tom3p> cemede: look at youremcdir/configs/stepper/README, likely has the info you need.
[17:41:19] <cemede> ok, i go to see that
[17:43:22] <cemede> tom3p I using the live-cd 8.04
[17:44:14] <tom3p> cemede: sorry, i just looked at the schematic for that... you have something special there, 4 wires per motor connected to the parport. read up on 'stepconf' a utility to design the hal files and determine the parallel port pinout.
[17:46:50] <cemede> yes, that's what I trying to do, use stepconf, but by default there has only "X Step" + "X Direction" on pin 2&3, and 4&% has the Y axis config
[17:47:00] <cemede> pins 4&5
[17:48:28] <tom3p> cemede: i just ran stepconf, you're right its not set up to handle 4 wire motors. sorry, i have no answer, someone else may know a file for you to look at.
[17:50:37] <alex_joni> you need to do it the old way .. e.g. yourself ;)
[17:50:51] <alex_joni> start by reading the stepgen docs (integrator's manual)
[17:51:54] <tom3p> yes the lower level component 'stepgen' can handle 2 control modes for unitpolar motors ( type 5 &6 esp )
[17:52:58] <tom3p> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&diff=1&id=Stepgen
[17:53:24] <cemede> wow :S
[17:54:29] <cemede> why the guy from the url above (etchcnc), does not mention the config that he used?
[17:57:31] <cemede> I also tryed this circuits http://www.8051projects.net/stepper-motor-interfacing/unipolar_stepper.gif
[17:57:53] <cemede> and this http://www.tigoe.net/pcomp/img/unipolar_stepper.png
[17:58:06] <cemede> but with no luck
[18:01:41] <LawrenceG> cemede, I just dropped in, but with those circuits, you will need to use stepping type 2 (I think) or one of the higher step types... step/dir will not work
[18:03:02] <cemede> aha, I understand
[18:03:09] <tom3p> cemede: the simplicity of the driver chip you used, creates the need for a complex wiring a:) but, you can put a unipolar driver between the computer and the motor (not the uln2003) and get simple step & direction control from computer to driver. the motors just wire to the drivers output. example :http://kitsrus.com/pdf/k179.pdf
[18:05:43] <cemede> well, yesterday, I take apart a old fax to take some motors and It comes with this uln2003a and a L6219
[18:09:50] <tom3p> you can drive it with the uln chip, but you have to figure out how to connect motor to chip output, and parport to chip input, and how to control the parport from emc.
[18:09:50] <tom3p> ´╗┐you spend time or you spend money. (dont hook to motherboard parport unless you are willing to risk it , try to use a pci parport card instead )
[18:12:00] <tom3p> sure it's unipolar? the l6219 is designed for bipolar http://www.genesis-microchip.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/1377.pdf
[18:12:14] <tom3p> maybe you can just hack to old control board
[18:12:47] <cemede> yes, fax come with two motors
[18:12:55] <cemede> bipolar and a unipolar
[18:13:10] <cemede> I also have tons of uniplar motors
[18:15:54] <dimas_> how to visually recognise wheither it bipolar or unipolar?
[18:16:08] <cemede> I want to build PMinMO L297-8, but actually I don't have the hardware, I just try to play with what I have
[18:17:08] <cemede> dimas_ unipolar has 4 wires normally
[18:17:22] <celeron55> bipolar has 4 wires
[18:17:26] <cemede> yes
[18:17:28] <celeron55> unipolar has more
[18:17:29] <cemede> bipolar xD
[18:18:12] <dimas_> i have one with 5
[18:18:25] <celeron55> it's unipolar then
[18:19:21] <celeron55> (the kind of unipolar that you can't drive in a bipolar configuration)
[18:19:21] <dimas_> and when 6 - it's unipolar as well?
[18:19:30] <tom3p> dimas_: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?StepMotorWireIdentification
[18:19:39] <celeron55> that's unipolar, but you can drive it with a bipolar drive
[18:19:51] <dimas_> thanks guys
[18:30:24] <micges> pcw_home_: hi
[18:31:35] <micges> I remember that you answered this but: how is ot going with more than one pwm frequency per mesa/hm2 card?
[18:38:40] <tom3p> cemede: look into these, 6$ per chip, simple emc2 compatible interface, drives unipolars and with external fets can get some power. ( replaces classic 5804) http://www.stepgenie.com/
[18:39:49] <cemede> tom3p interesting
[18:41:26] <cemede> tom3p I have acces to some free texas instrument parts, for example this http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/drv8811.html can I use it for that job?
[18:42:10] <pcw_home_> micges: What is it the you need maybe I can figure a way to do it with whats already there
[18:44:14] <micges> I have pwm controlled laser and servo and I need 20kHz for servo and 100kHz for laser, and on other machine I have 20kHz for servo and 1Khz or lowe for THC DC motor
[18:44:54] <micges> I saw something about two pwms from one mesa you're talking some time ago
[18:44:58] <micges> so I'm asking
[18:47:05] <pcw_home_> Well if its for analog out you can use PDM for that and PWM for devices that need PWM (PDM and PWM rates are different)
[18:50:15] <tom3p> cemede: it looks ok to me, but you must study the sheet to see how o wire to emc2 ( step & dir ) and study the motor to see if this chip can drive it. you would be able to use step conf to design the ini & hal files.
[18:50:41] <pcw_home_> Also if you bypass the driver, you can get binary multiples of the PWM rate on different channels
[18:50:42] <pcw_home_> (the PWM generators are individually 9,10,11 or 12 bit resolution so for example if the reference counter
[18:50:44] <pcw_home_> has a base rate of 24 KHz at 12 bit resolution, choosing 10 bit resolution would give you a96 KHz 10 bit PWM channel)
[18:51:33] <micges> pcw_home_: I don't know if pdm can be used for laser but if so first problem will be solved
[18:52:04] <micges> I see
[18:54:07] <micges> thanks
[18:57:19] <tom3p> can i plug a pci video card into a pci-e x1 or x16 slot? ( no idea what pci-e is but its on a mobo i'm looking at )
[19:01:08] <tom3p> no
[19:01:24] <alex_joni> pci-e = pci express
[19:01:30] <alex_joni> lots smaller connector
[19:04:01] <pcw_home_> PCIE is 1mm pitch instead of .050 inch also
[19:05:29] <pcw_home_> PCIE cards have a specific PCB card extension to prevent plugging PCIE cards into PCI slots
[19:06:22] <pcw_home_> I think the keying and lengths prevent plugging PCI cards into PCIE slots
[19:10:31] <cemede> tom3p the drv8811 has 2 pins for step & dir (19 & 3), but I don't know how to wire the rest of it, for example USM0-1 (microstep mode), decay, and other sensing things..
[19:26:20] <tom3p> cemede: microstep mode is something set on the chip (like a jumper or pull up resistor) it does not 'talk' to the emc, or parport. if you are not comfortable with such problems, look into higher level solutions.
[19:27:38] <tom3p> cemede: how to wire it is: read the chip docs, read the emc2 docs, design on paper, try with no load, try with load.... go back to step 1 and repeat ;)
[19:27:57] <cemede> hehehe
[19:28:19] <alex_joni> catch the smoke too
[19:28:29] <cemede> yeah, but I'm totally a newbie now :P
[19:30:55] <renesis> so give up
[19:31:52] <tom3p> alex_joni: pcw_home: thx about pci-e i finally looked at wikipedia to see pci just doesnt fit ( pci-e 1x is teeeny! i got one of those & wondered what that was )
[19:33:11] <alex_joni> tom3p: ;)
[19:42:25] <alex_joni> http://cheezburger.com/View.aspx?aid=2880049408
[19:48:11] <micges> hehe
[19:48:54] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I don't see the problem with that... easy access for the burglars and the 16yo hormones to enter
[19:54:58] <Jymmm> jepler: What do you think of the arduino? I'm thinking of getting one.
[20:03:00] <issy> hi all
[20:03:52] <micges> hi
[20:05:15] <issy> any idea for gaintry servo hal file on mesa 7i43?
[20:19:12] <numen> hi
[21:02:48] <micges> issy: you can start of study this: http://axis.unpythonic.net/01162326817
[21:03:36] <issy> thanks mic , many thanks.
[21:22:32] <toast_> toast_ is now known as toastydeath
[21:43:59] <dimas_> for different conversion kits can i find exactly what timing belts and pulleys they contain?
[21:46:46] <dimas_> the smallest one
[22:06:18] <jt-plasma> alex_joni: it is v4l2 type... xawtv can see it, now to get it to capture a picture :)
[22:06:36] <jt-plasma> a
[22:07:56] <jt-plasma> :)
[22:08:29] <jt-plasma> alex_joni: yes it is a v4l2 device... at least xawtv can cee it
[22:14:59] <alex_joni> 18:05 < oPless> you can LD_PRELOAD a v4l app to talk to v4l2 drivers
[22:21:52] <jt-plasma> thanks alex_joni I missed that
[22:23:51] <alex_joni> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Webcam
[22:48:08] <Jymmm> DAMN DAMN DAMN I can't decide to keep or get rid of this 14U full depth portable rack =(
[22:48:55] <alex_joni> got a pic?
[22:49:01] <Jymmm> hang on
[22:50:02] <Jymmm> Front view: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2365/2341661963_262a8a0e38.jpg
[22:50:35] <Jymmm> Top View: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2095/2341662349_0325bac986.jpg
[22:51:02] <Jymmm> Even has front retractable wheely bars
[22:51:41] <Jymmm> rolls around as smooth as can be, can hold a 1000+ lbs easily
[22:52:54] <Jymmm> It be perfect if it wasn't so deep
[22:53:24] <alex_joni> looks great
[22:53:45] <Jymmm> Yeah, i know.
[22:55:04] <Jymmm> I got rid of the 4U switch a ways back, have a 1.5U Cisco catalyist now + a 1U 24p 10/100
[23:04:23] <MrSunshine> tom3p, my casting went to shit :P
[23:04:42] <MrSunshine> http://pici.se/511881/ http://pici.se/511882/ http://pici.se/511883/ too small details etc .. :)
[23:04:51] <MrSunshine> to thick foam maybe
[23:04:58] <MrSunshine> as it took ages for the aluminium to eath throught it
[23:27:33] <tom3p> MrSunshine: i think you have a sprue problem also, the 'rest of the ring' didnt fill and you could extend your sprue to the far side, also at the furthest filled points, add small pocket outside so fill flows past the problem and occurs in the garbage extra bit
[23:27:49] <tom3p> fwiw, i'm not a lost foam caster, just ex mold maker
[23:28:11] <MrSunshine> tom3p, aye .. dont know at all how to make the sprue system :)
[23:29:02] <MrSunshine> tom3p, but like i said ..the foam seems to thick
[23:29:28] <MrSunshine> on the middle of the thick piece in the middle of the part on the far side from the metal intakes it hasnt filled fully
[23:29:35] <MrSunshine> telling me that the foam took to long to burn off
[23:29:54] <MrSunshine> so the metal got under poring temp even before it filles the 10mm thick part
[23:30:11] <MrSunshine> and on top of that expecting it to fill a 5mm thick piece like the extruding part is just silly :P
[23:31:12] <MrSunshine> and ive been warned about jackofoam before
[23:31:15] <MrSunshine> as its a bit dense
[23:34:56] <jepler> Jymmm: the arduino is fine. it's a 16K or 32K flash AVR with 2KB flash used by the bootloader.
[23:35:23] <jepler> Jymmm: I am not in love with the arduino environment, but you can also program the devices with regular C programs at the commandline
[23:35:52] <jepler> Jymmm: having the usb/serial bootloader really makes the program-debug-by-printf cycle easier
[23:36:06] <cemede> tom3p done, I found circuit and EMC2 config to use the DRV8811 ! The circuit uses a Allegro A3979 which is compatible with the DRV8811 (pin and function compatible) http://hobbymechatronics.com/electronic-projects/11-projects/14-diy-microstepping-motor-driver here the breakout board http://hobbymechatronics.com/projects/29-mechanics/11-sherline-cnc-conversion?start=4 and here the EMC2 config http://hobbymechatronics.com/projects/29-mechanics/11-sherline-
[23:36:07] <cemede> cnc-conversion?start=5
[23:36:10] <jepler> if you have a spare 30 bucks and a project, it's worth a look
[23:36:20] <jepler> bbl
[23:37:16] <tom3p> MrSunshine: ok, i have no feel for how thick molten aluminum is
[23:39:19] <MrSunshine> not realy thick until it starts to solidify :()
[23:39:20] <MrSunshine> :)
[23:39:34] <MrSunshine> and burning of material takes heat from the metal right? :)
[23:40:04] <MattyMatt> the sprue lets hot gas escape too, so it doesn't cause back-pressure
[23:40:50] <MattyMatt> maybe drinking straws glued to the foam?
[23:41:52] <MrSunshine> mm
[23:42:11] <MrSunshine> i like open cavity molds more realy .. there you know theres nothing that stops the metal more then stuff traveling to far :P
[23:42:38] <Jymmm> jepler: how close is the dev lang to native AVR c?
[23:42:43] <tom3p> cemede: looks nice, you buying the pcb ? and soldering the smt's yourself? (you got better eyes and hands than I ;)
[23:43:33] <jepler> Jymmm: arduino is C plus limited C++ plus basic functions for pin I/O and serial I/O plus add-li libraries for stuff like onewire and the like
[23:43:40] <tom3p> MrSunshine: yes a gas vent would be good
[23:43:41] <MattyMatt> that motor mount would work in an open face mould, if you don't mind drilling the holes
[23:43:44] <celeron55> soldering smd's relly isn't a big deal
[23:43:51] <DaViruz> the "sketch" naming convention bugs me
[23:44:07] <Jymmm> jepler: Ok, I'd have to re-learn c, is why I ask
[23:44:11] <MrSunshine> tom3p, thats what the small one was supposed to be .. but figured after ive done everything that nothing would be able to escape throught it :P
[23:44:16] <Jymmm> DaViruz: 'shield" bugs the shit out of me
[23:44:24] <cemede> tom3p yeah, I have great soldering skills :P
[23:44:41] <DaViruz> i huess most their names bugs me
[23:44:48] <jepler> bbl really this time :)
[23:46:00] <tom3p> but i like to say 'arduino milenove' to the girls at the bar " buono note signorina dove pose una arudino milenova?'
[23:46:25] <tom3p> sounds better after afew drinks
[23:46:40] <DaViruz> i like words i can pronounce
[23:47:02] <MattyMatt> and then you find out the hard way that arduino means "itchy fanny"
[23:47:21] <MattyMatt> don't try it in Naples :)
[23:48:56] <MrSunshine> tom3p, arduino as a pickup line? :)
[23:50:19] <MrSunshine> aparently one of my gym friends has been a NC programmer for 10 freakin years .. never used a cad program to do the g-code .... how the hell :P
[23:50:31] <MrSunshine> 4 axis g-code in the head ?
[23:51:27] <tom3p> MrSunshine: only if im sure the girl doesnt speak Italian
[23:51:54] <MrSunshine> tom3p, hehe :)
[23:52:16] <tom3p> and your friend, yes, 4 axis, a calculator and 10 yrs of experience, no cam needed
[23:53:16] <MrSunshine> i cant wrap my head around thatr :P
[23:54:33] <MattyMatt> MrSunshine: did you leave the foam in the riser & the sprue?
[23:55:07] <toast_> toast_ is now known as toastydeath
[23:55:21] <MrSunshine> MattyMatt, foam everywhere
[23:55:22] <MrSunshine> :)
[23:57:26] <MattyMatt> pencils would hold a hole in the sand open while you packed it
[23:58:10] <MrSunshine> MattyMatt, usinga ceramic shell i do not pack any sand
[23:58:24] <MrSunshine> i just have dry sand aroun dit .. .shake it in place and cast
[23:58:41] <MrSunshine> so a pencil hole would collapse on itself quite fast :)
[23:58:51] <cradek> are you talking about lost wax?
[23:58:59] <MattyMatt> lost foam
[23:59:06] <cradek> ah
[23:59:13] <cradek> why not a foam sprue?
[23:59:46] <MattyMatt> it won't let gas out until it's melted itself