#emc | Logs for 2009-11-30

[00:16:16] <andypugh> These look useful: proto-boards for SMT devices. http://www.schmartboard.com/index.asp?page=products_clearance
[00:48:42] <jimbo655> How would one interface a rotary encoder into the touchy interface? my encoder will be attached to two pins A and B.
[00:52:21] <andypugh> Are there likely looking pins in halui?
[00:54:06] <skunkworks> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob_plain;f=src/emc/usr_intf/touchy/design.notes;hb=HEAD
[00:58:01] <jimbo655> the example file for touchy.hal shows a diferent input pin for each direction. I want to use an encoder and have it work only with the selected input.
[01:00:28] <andypugh> You can probably install an encoder module, wire that to the encoder wheel in HAL, and then wire the encoder velocity to the jog velocity
[01:01:10] <andypugh> Assuming that you still have the same halui pins in the toucjy interface
[01:01:52] <jimbo655> what is the parameter in hal for the encoder/
[01:01:54] <jimbo655> ?
[01:02:46] <jimbo655> I have looked for it...... not easy to find.
[01:03:06] <andypugh> I think I might be over-complicating things.
[01:04:12] <andypugh> Have you read the section in the link above which begins:
[01:04:20] <andypugh> Touchy has several output pins that are meant to be connected to
[01:04:20] <andypugh> the motion controller to control wheel jogging. They are:
[01:05:10] <jimbo655> there in an input called touchy_wheel_counts is this where i would attach my encoder?
[01:05:55] <andypugh> That is where you would connect the encoder "counts" pin, I think.
[01:06:34] <andypugh> I admit I am just wildly guessing in the hopes that I will say something so blatently stupid that cradek will feel obliged to step in
[01:07:27] <andypugh> Are you using p-port alone?
[01:07:57] <jimbo655> so i am assuming that there is a encoder counts pin in hal? If so what is the command to attach this pin to two physical input pins A and B
[01:08:18] <jimbo655> what is p-port?
[01:08:21] <andypugh> OK, this is all guesswork...
[01:08:28] <andypugh> (Parallel port)
[01:08:47] <jimbo655> No I am using two pins on a 5i20...
[01:09:24] <andypugh> Does your 5i20 config include any quadrature encoders?
[01:10:58] <jimbo655> I have used all of these for the servos and head speed. so i am down to using two inputs to creat the quadrature encoder.
[01:11:36] <andypugh> No spare pins on the 5i20?
[01:11:57] <andypugh> Or, rather, no space to add an encoder?
[01:12:50] <andypugh> If you increase the number of encoders in the loadrt hm2_pci.... line does it fall over?
[01:13:59] <andypugh> (Note that this stands a fair chance of reassigning all your GPIO pins,,)
[01:14:14] <jimbo655> I have lots of spare pins. I have not tried to increase the number of encoders.
[01:15:05] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:15:28] <jimbo655> I have a complete 50 pin header unused.
[01:15:31] <andypugh> Bear in mind that I am not even sure that an encoder module is the best way to interpret your jog wheel: But you could either try running an extra one in the 5i20 then connecting the wires to the physical pins there
[01:16:04] <andypugh> Or use two if the GPIO pins and wire them to a new sofware encoder module in HAL
[01:16:08] <jimbo655> so worst case I would have to readdess all of my pins.... doable
[01:16:33] <andypugh> It isn't a huge problem if you skip encoder counts on a jog wheel, so either way will work
[01:17:03] <jimbo655> how do you create an software encoder in hal?
[01:17:26] <andypugh> To add a quadrature decoder to HAL you need a line something like
[01:17:29] <jimbo655> point me in a direction please
[01:17:31] <andypugh> addf encoder
[01:17:35] <andypugh> I think.
[01:18:01] <andypugh> Let me see if I can find any config files on this computer (the CNC one is in bits)
[01:18:42] <jimbo655> I will look in hal. so once the encoder is created it gets linked to touchy wheel-counts.
[01:19:23] <andypugh> Hmm, one simple way to see what is needed is to create a dummy config with stepconf and see what that does when you say you have a spindle encoder
[01:19:30] <andypugh> I think it is going to be:
[01:20:20] <andypugh> loadrt encoder num_chan=1
[01:20:20] <andypugh> addf encoder.update-counters base-thread
[01:20:20] <andypugh> addf encoder.capture-position servo-thread
[01:20:21] <andypugh> setp encoder.0.position-scale 1
[01:20:21] <andypugh> setp encoder.0.counter-mode 1
[01:21:27] <andypugh> Then net encoder.0.phase-A and ...phase-B to your chosen GPIO pins
[01:21:59] <andypugh> You probably want to put that stuff in the touchy.hal file
[01:23:02] <jimbo655> Thank you you have been a great help. Off to wiring and stuff. Again thanks
[01:23:32] <andypugh> Good luck, and don't expect any of what I said to work as-is
[01:23:57] <jimbo655> I f not I'll be back.........
[01:24:04] <andypugh> I am going to bed....
[02:05:34] <roh> Ÿhm. any tips on optimizing the base peiod without knowing the stepper-amp specs?
[02:55:28] <cradek> skunkworks: thanks again for all these tapes - what luxury to not have to figure out which ones to overwrite
[03:22:12] <tom3p> microchip (the PIC people) had a capacitive touch sensor kit, it had 'rotary knobs' that you 'rotated' by spinning your finger tip on a flat picture of a knob. worked pretty well in Taiwan last year, might be adapted to touchy as a jog device. i think same is used on some kitchen appliances now.
[03:42:44] <fenn> like an ipod?
[03:45:47] <fenn> arent required/recommended backwards? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui_touchy.html
[03:46:52] <cradek> 1.1.1 are required for touchy
[03:47:28] <cradek> 1.1.2 is something every machine needs but is unrelated to touchy
[03:47:41] <cradek> 1.1.3 are optional for touchy
[03:49:31] <fenn> why is cycle start and single block required?
[03:49:48] <fenn> and abort too, for that matter
[03:49:49] <cradek> because you can't start a cycle or execute a single block without them
[03:49:52] <cradek> or abort
[03:50:04] <fenn> but but but
[03:50:11] <fenn> why arent they just controls on the screen?
[03:51:40] <cradek> the short answer is because that's not the design: see this http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob_plain;f=src/emc/usr_intf/touchy/design.notes;hb=master
[03:58:13] <cradek> I did some work on the mill today using just the continuous jog switches. it's nice - just like a manual mill with power feeds and DROs.
[04:04:11] <tom3p> 'work', like cutting with jog buttons?
[04:05:34] <cradek> yes
[04:05:52] <cradek> simple facing/squaring/sizing stuff
[04:06:38] <tom3p> beats wrapping a rag around the hand crank and turning for hours
[04:06:47] <fenn> today i blew the fuse in the mill control box, maybe
[04:07:03] <fenn> there were no replacement fuses so nothing else happened
[04:07:36] <cradek> ouch
[04:07:42] <cradek> maybe?
[04:08:24] <fenn> you see it wouldn't turn on, so i started poking around with a multimeter. little did i know the meter probe was plugged into "10A" so it just shorted whatever i was measuring
[04:09:05] <cradek> eek
[04:09:24] <cradek> that's so easy to do
[04:09:34] <cradek> also metering voltage on the ohms setting
[04:24:20] <tom3p> ok, touch controls are out of spec (boohoo no arm waving gestures at a theramin to jog)
[04:38:13] <cradek> haha theremin feed override
[04:40:16] <cradek> I hear some people use wireless usb gamepads ... not much better
[05:44:17] <Danimal> cradek: do you know how many amps the servos are on the hnc?
[06:30:22] <pouss1n> hello / salut francais ici ?
[07:41:24] <alex_joni> pouss1n: rarement
[07:46:20] <roh> hm... anybody able to help with stepper tuning?
[07:46:48] <roh> i have this stepperdriver http://www.syilamerica.com/docs/CNC_stepper_driver.pdf
[07:46:56] <archivist_emc> run them slow enough not to lose steps
[07:48:19] <roh> thats what im doing. but i want it faster for the g0. but i have no datasheet and get spurious latency errors sometimes (which seem not to have been hurting me so far)
[07:48:57] <roh> i'm a bit irritated how to work without knowing which timings the stepperdriver needs, regardless of how good or bad the machine is
[07:49:06] <pouss1n> i use gentoo, and i want to kwon if tht possible to get EMC on gentoo ??? only source downlaod ?
[07:51:39] <archivist_emc> pouss1n, you can but you need to install the rtai kernel
[07:52:22] <pouss1n> how to somewhere ?
[07:52:35] <pouss1n> k i will found
[07:54:27] <pouss1n> what is the different's between rtai and habitual kernel ?
[07:54:42] <archivist_emc> real time
[07:55:28] <archivist_emc> all the wotk is done for you if you use the ready made live ubuntu CD
[07:55:34] <archivist_emc> work
[07:56:08] <pouss1n> i just reading some line fastess, i need to change my system to vanilla source and apply patch of rati
[07:56:21] <pouss1n> then it s gonna work i think
[07:57:19] <pouss1n> or... a little computer control on my CNC and dialog with ssh, that is a way acceptable :)
[07:57:41] <pouss1n> like this i no change my gentoo install
[07:57:55] <roh> weird... the machine doesnt have smi afaik (too old) but still does spike occationally. but not timed or in regular intervals
[07:58:27] <roh> 22000ns jitter max usually, but something like once a boot it get 2000000
[08:02:17] <alex_joni> roh: bummer
[08:02:27] <alex_joni> sounds like not really useable
[08:17:33] <roh> * roh has a suspect... pulseaudio
[08:18:04] <roh> it does some high-prio shit and tries to get realtime prios even on regular desktops (which is ok there) ,, but it could be its not harmonic with rtai
[08:18:20] <roh> and its spiking when i try doing audio
[08:23:29] <roh> alex_joni so far it worked well, even with that
[08:24:06] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[08:30:32] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[08:39:47] <roh> the only timing info i got are measured from a demo of mach3 with a config for another syil machine *sigh*
[08:45:22] <roh> any clue in what units mach3 saves values?
[08:47:05] <roh> <Steps2>25400.</Steps2>
[08:47:05] <roh> <PulseWidth>1011</PulseWidth>
[08:47:06] <roh> <DirPulse>511</DirPulse>
[08:48:27] <alex_joni> roh: no idea
[08:48:45] <alex_joni> it should be in the mach manual I guess
[08:49:51] <roh> did not find it there
[09:06:51] <alex_joni> sorry.. no idea about Mach
[09:07:51] <_Poincare> _Poincare is now known as Poincare
[09:10:42] <pouss1n> archivist_emc, i kwon that seem to not be recommended, but can i patch my "habitualy" kernel with the rtai patch ??? that will work s ?
[09:11:38] <pouss1n> the how to say : use a clean lernel, but i down wan to pass 2 day for remake a kernel working :oF
[09:14:38] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[09:19:53] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[09:34:26] <pouss1n> archivist_emc, i would like to apply the patch on my kernel, but i haven t the good number for my kernel, i got the lastest source 2.6.30 and rtai patch have only 2.6.23 at maxx, so i apply this one ??? should that work's ? plzz help me :p
[09:34:56] <archivist> I have never patched a kernel
[09:35:06] <archivist> I use the live cd
[09:35:32] <pouss1n> but i don t want to reboot every time i use emc ....
[09:36:04] <pouss1n> i m on gentoo 2.6.30, i m trying to apply the patch manualy
[09:36:51] <roh> you dont want to use the same computer for controlling your mill like for the daily work.
[09:37:01] <roh> get a dedicated one. doesnt have to ne new
[09:37:46] <pouss1n> i haven t any machine yet, i want to learn how to prod with the linux interface
[09:37:55] <pouss1n> my machine is under construction
[09:38:26] <acemi> the patch is in base/arch/x86/
[09:38:36] <pouss1n> i would like to use EMC
[09:39:00] <pouss1n> acemi, yes but that will works for another version of kernel ?
[09:39:30] <acemi> there is a patch for 2.6.30
[09:41:10] <pouss1n> rtai-3.7 ??
[09:41:32] <acemi> 3.7.1
[09:41:52] <pouss1n> k i try it
[09:50:09] <pouss1n> 3.7.1 have also patch for 2.6.23 , no patch for my kernel version ....
[09:54:56] <acemi> which directory did you look?
[09:56:42] <acemi> i386 or x86
[10:17:36] <pouss1n> i386 i look in x86
[10:18:55] <pouss1n> lol that better but still no have 2.6.30
[10:19:03] <pouss1n> i only ound 2.6.39
[10:19:11] <pouss1n> 2.6.29
[10:19:14] <acemi> try 3.7.1
[10:19:27] <pouss1n> i m on it :)
[10:19:45] <pouss1n> shoud i try 2.6.29 ??
[10:19:47] <acemi> 3.7.1 has the patch for 2.6.30
[10:21:06] <pouss1n> i have download rtai-3.7.1.tar.bz2 and i have only
[10:23:01] <acemi> hmm that's true. you can get it from om
[10:23:08] <acemi> http://cvs.gna.org/cvsweb/magma/base/arch/x86/patches/?cvsroot=rtai
[10:23:37] <acemi> hal-linux-2.6.30-x86-2.4-05.patch
[10:25:36] <acemi> this is for the vanilla kernel 2.6.30
[10:25:45] <roh> pouss1n you really would be done by now had you taken that old p3 computer from the attic ;)
[10:25:46] <acemi> and it works with 3.7.1
[10:26:49] <pouss1n> roh want ?????? (i m french i haven t understand what u say :p )
[11:12:49] <celeron55> umm...i once tried the x86 patch
[11:12:57] <celeron55> it didn't work with emc
[11:13:09] <celeron55> i had to use the i386 one
[11:13:15] <celeron55> just get the .23 kernel
[11:13:52] <celeron55> no big difference to .29, it just lacks some wlan drivers or so
[11:15:50] <Valen> setting up the limits and estop on our mill, Planning on having the limit switches take out the low voltage supply and it'll lock itself out
[11:16:59] <Valen> IE the relay that power to the mesa drivers goes through also powers itself, so if power is lost it cant be re-applied without a manual override
[11:17:13] <Valen> Was wondering how EMC should interact with this
[11:18:04] <Valen> I imagine I can get EMC to send a signal out on it triggering an estop that will open the circuit through the mesa I/O card
[11:18:43] <Valen> but I would like the power on/power off state of emc to mirror that of the actual system
[11:18:59] <Valen> such that If we press the override it powers on again and if we manually trip the estop it knows that the power is off
[11:20:55] <archivist> I dont believe you should just dump power in all cases, eg do a safe powered stop, an unpowered stop can free run and cause more damage
[11:21:28] <Valen> hmmm interesting point
[11:22:04] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[11:23:40] <Valen> so what cases should cause a power dump?
[11:31:04] <archivist> the subject is a minefield with opposing views
[11:31:24] <Valen> lol, whats your view?
[11:33:08] <archivist> each machine needs a separate design, one size fits all does not apply
[11:34:56] <archivist> read a nice one the other day that had a rotating element, safety boss said this must stop in x secs, so the implemented that and tested, it broke away from the floor and flipped over on the first test
[11:35:14] <Valen> lol
[11:35:17] <Valen> but did it stop?
[11:36:03] <Valen> I read one about an OH&S inspector checking a vacuume chamber, (*big, one, walk in style) at a uni
[11:36:03] <celeron55> probably partially a matter of taste also
[11:36:18] <archivist> a previously safe machine (it was very old) now jumps off the floor!
[11:36:20] <Valen> as it was a "pressure vessel" it needed to be inspected etc
[11:37:15] <Valen> the inspector saw that there were valves for venting to the room and insisted that it be closed down until the vents were ducted away incase the vacume started drifting around the lab
[11:37:38] <celeron55> :D
[11:38:04] <Valen> sanity eventually prevailed
[11:39:22] <Valen> I am thinking that limit switch hit should mean power off, but now I am thinking a powered halt would be faster
[11:39:34] <Valen> unless its the computer/driver thats gone nuts in the first place
[11:40:16] <celeron55> that's what a manual safety switch is for
[11:40:18] <archivist> sanity also was employed on that one I mentioned, it was a friction welder, instead of a separate brake to frame they just used the bring together for weld action
[11:41:14] <Valen> after they stood it up again I'm guessing ;->
[11:42:20] <Valen> celeron55 this thing is able to hit 6 meters a minute + under full control, a full table traverse is about 4 seconds on the long axis, manual stop isn't going to cut it
[11:43:50] <celeron55> well, what is going to cut it?
[11:45:12] <Valen> currently I am planning on cutting power to the drives
[11:46:29] <Valen> and hoping it stops travelling before it hits the hard stop
[11:46:47] <Valen> (aka cast iron on iron bang noise)
[11:47:18] <MattyMatt> shunt the motors through a load, so you get engine braking
[11:47:57] <celeron55> if it goes so fast, it probably doesn't matter if you cut power at the limit or do nothing
[11:47:57] <MattyMatt> easy with a dual pole relay, but that will leave the driver hanging while the power dies, but e-stop shouldn't care
[11:48:17] <celeron55> yep, i was thinking the same
[11:48:18] <MattyMatt> dual throw
[11:48:32] <Valen> the limit switch is 10mm before the stop
[11:48:53] <Valen> I might look at putting some shocks in on there as well
[11:49:22] <Valen> the full speed traverse into the stop is a worst case affair obviously
[11:49:34] <Valen> most often is going to be running a program and being off center
[11:52:53] <MattyMatt> can't emc put soft stops in? do you have absolute encoder?
[11:53:52] <Valen> no, just linear scales with no absolute
[11:54:35] <MattyMatt> extra limit switches 10cm from the end, could emc be made to enter a "no fast moves" mode?
[11:55:21] <Valen> mmm doesn't feel "right"
[11:56:34] <MattyMatt> it would work quite well, because you get a snapshot of absolute position when you cross the threshhold, so emc would know where the end is and could abort the job if there's no room
[11:57:20] <Valen> I'm not as concerned about it intentionally doing a rapid into the stop
[11:57:43] <MattyMatt> you just said you were :)
[11:57:54] <MattyMatt> "job running off centre" that's human error
[11:57:56] <Valen> that was more a case of the PC or controller latching
[11:58:36] <MattyMatt> yeah one stuck motor driver and you've got worst case scenario
[11:59:01] <Valen> thats what I'm thinking,
[11:59:25] <Valen> I just want to make sure that handling that at all doesn't prevent handling the better stop modes
[11:59:45] <Valen> (and hopefully more common)
[11:59:47] <MattyMatt> e-stop is your friend, although I'm thinking emc could keep an eye out when idle, and trigger it auto
[12:00:09] <Valen> currently our Estop is the 25A fuses on the motors ;->
[12:02:11] <MattyMatt> have both kinds. one with a sledgehammer icon, the other with a scalpel
[12:04:25] <MattyMatt> with a machine that big, you have to kill the power, because the dude with his leg squashed into the motor is getting rather twitchy
[12:05:14] <Valen> its not really that big
[12:05:28] <Valen> its just got 500W motors on it ;->
[12:06:07] <MattyMatt> you just said 25A fuses
[12:06:22] <MattyMatt> I heard you, and so did the ambulance driver
[12:06:29] <Valen> lol
[12:06:58] <Valen> we were blowing the 15A ones while I was tuning it up
[12:07:27] <Valen> How to void your warranty on mesa hardware http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0071.jpg
[12:10:18] <MattyMatt> what's that? 4 channels into 1?
[12:10:54] <archivist> with mods like that one should cut the power :)
[12:11:28] <Valen> its bypassing the current limit
[12:11:52] <Valen> a common failure mode of the fets is short from gate to source
[12:11:58] <Valen> drain to source sorry
[12:12:04] <Valen> IE they can fail on ;->
[12:12:37] <MattyMatt> nasty. never used more than NPN myself. even PNP is a bit oo-er
[12:13:08] <Valen> its all mosfets and digital electronics for me, none of this analog voodoo
[12:13:49] <MattyMatt> he said soldering inch thick cables to the power amp
[12:14:17] <Valen> lol they arent *that* big
[12:14:29] <Valen> I was just worried about the extra current frying the board
[12:14:35] <Valen> burning the traces off style
[12:14:50] <Valen> these are small compared to the stuff we use in robots
[12:14:59] <Valen> If i do blow the fets i'll up rate them
[12:15:47] <Valen> we haven't actually managed to heat those up yet though
[12:16:10] <Valen> those should be good for ~30A cont with a bit of cooling
[12:23:00] <MattyMatt> if it is, mesa could copy you
[12:23:41] <Valen> lol mesa was just playing it safe
[12:24:01] <Valen> think of it as the aftermarket turbo charger modification
[12:24:30] <MattyMatt> like in mad max?
[12:24:47] <Valen> and they wanted to make sure that the thermal cutout would work fast enough to stop a mesoplasma event
[12:26:15] <MattyMatt> I'd wanna see a thermal sim in spice+fea before I plugged it in
[12:28:46] <Valen> you can do that, I'll run my mill and let you know if it breaks
[12:29:38] <Valen> cos as yet it hasnt even gotten warm driving these http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0026.jpg
[12:30:33] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0025.jpg is a nice shot
[12:49:21] <MattyMatt> chubby motor
[12:56:03] <MattyMatt> mm wasting daylight
[12:58:28] <Valen> its a phat motor ;->
[12:58:36] <Valen> and not bad for $36 new ;->
[14:00:47] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:12:56] <tlab3> tlab3 is now known as tlab
[14:57:54] <tarzan> Valen, anti backlash nuts adapted?
[15:17:01] <skunkworks_> Good morning. everyone survive turkey day?
[15:19:49] <tarzan> i did
[15:51:51] <Valen> tarzan?
[15:53:39] <tarzan> on the mill, does it have special nuts, or are original ones?
[15:53:48] <pouss1n> archivist_emc, i have lunch the patch but no verbose appear, should it s normal ?? how mutch time aproximatly ?
[15:54:31] <archivist> pouss1n, did you miss the comment I have never patched the kernel
[15:55:27] <Valen> its running ballnuts with a belville washer antibacklash setup
[15:55:37] <Valen> didn't trust the chinese anti-backlash
[15:55:57] <pouss1n> k sry
[15:57:20] <tarzan> Valen: great work
[15:59:53] <JbLb_> JbLb_ is now known as JbLb
[16:03:06] <skunkworks_> Valen: how many lbs of force do you think you have between the ballnuts?
[16:03:51] <Valen> about "that" much
[16:04:58] <Valen> ttyl, 3:00AM here night
[16:23:10] <archivist> belville washers can be very powerful
[16:26:30] <cradek> enco has their cheapest hss end mills for half price, and free shipping
[16:27:40] <cradek> a favorite pastime of mine is breaking off 1/4 end mills in aluminum...
[16:30:06] <archivist> hehe I was at last years model engineer show when the CamBam stand did the same on his demo machine
[16:30:47] <cradek> my biggest problem is my naive gcode generating software only knows how to plunge into a cut
[16:31:01] <cradek> I'm often too lazy to manually edit it
[16:31:09] <cradek> (maybe cam bam is the same way?)
[16:31:33] <cradek> in aluminum that's a sure way to leave part of the end mill behind :-)
[16:31:38] <archivist> he was traversing in a cut ..bang
[16:32:38] <archivist> dont eat too much in sticky ally without a flood coolant on a flimsy machine in his case
[16:33:03] <skunkworks_> that was my plan for inexpensive zero backlash ballscrews. (belville washers - cheap ball screws and 2 nuts)
[16:33:46] <archivist> I expect "some" friction with that method
[16:35:50] <skunkworks_> sure
[16:38:54] <archivist> I used a stack to press two rollers together, but the paper I was rolling wrinkled, the pressure was then concentrated and the paper put grooves in the steel rollers
[16:39:39] <archivist> I had about two tons of force iirc to roll A4 paper
[16:41:05] <skunkworks_> for a circuit board mill - I would think anything over 20lb of force would be enough. (depending on accelleration ;))
[16:41:49] <archivist> thats at the bottom end of belville pressures
[16:42:53] <cradek> skunkworks_: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/anti-backlash.jpg
[16:43:03] <cradek> I had this setup on max - it worked perfectly fine for PCBs
[16:43:47] <cradek> you can see the spring there - it was just enough to move the table back if you'd pull on it
[16:43:48] <skunkworks_> cradek: I was actually thinking about dumpstercnc nuts also.
[16:43:59] <cradek> it really doesn't take much to take the slop out
[16:44:26] <cradek> no force cutting pcbs. not much speed either, so accel won't throw the table around except during rapids
[16:44:31] <cradek> brb
[18:26:25] <jimbo7555_> jimbo7555_ is now known as jimbo7555
[18:59:00] <skunkworks_> cradek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S1NIhwCzB0
[19:10:57] <robh> skunkworks, dont forget the other video i put up ;)
[19:17:18] <skunkworks165> logger_dev: bookmark
[19:17:23] <skunkworks165> heh
[19:17:28] <skunkworks165> logger_emc: bookmark
[19:17:28] <skunkworks165> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-11-30.txt
[19:18:48] <robh> jt-plasma, you about?
[19:41:56] <cradek> skunkworks165: thanks again for all those tapes. They are really handy.
[19:44:03] <skunkworks165> cradek: no problem - glad you could use them.
[19:44:51] <cradek> hey, nice superslant video! that's cool.
[19:45:04] <skunkworks165> should last you another 10 years? ;)
[19:46:51] <cradek> is all that noise a hydraulic pump? not a quiet machine.
[19:48:13] <robh> yes cradek that blumin hydrolic stack under spindle unit
[19:48:15] <cradek> ooh, is that a peck drill cycle with G17.1G83W?
[19:48:47] <robh> i couldt get it work on W axis does some very odd things in display on axis, like its trying to use it as an offset axis
[19:49:06] <tarzan> whats the advantage of a ball nut against a spring one?
[19:50:56] <robh> gtg
[19:52:34] <archivist_attic> tarzan, less friction and better accuracy from ballscrew
[19:54:00] <tarzan> lifetime could be the same?
[19:54:38] <archivist_attic> less frictions make for a longer lifetime
[19:54:42] <awallin> does 0.37kW sound too small for a live-tool spindle on a small lathe? Maybe max 6mm diam endmills would be used, spindle max rpm would be 12krpm
[19:55:44] <cradek> = 1/2 hp on 1/4" tool, seems fine
[19:56:04] <awallin> there's a 0.37kW VFD I could pick up for 120eur
[19:56:11] <awallin> siemens micromaster 420
[19:56:58] <awallin> the motors run at max rpm with 400Hz 3-phase AC. they sell them with either ER11 or ER16 collet spindle
[20:00:15] <cradek> sounds neat
[20:00:46] <cradek> ER is perfect for that - you can get a range of mm collets and hold any size - taps and reamers have odd sizes.
[20:01:16] <cradek> welll it won't have the power for that kind of thing, will it
[20:01:28] <cradek> more for engraving and cutting flats and stuff?
[20:01:51] <dimas> awallin, what model of AC motor is suitable is such case?
[20:03:13] <awallin> not sure, I'm looking at these http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/spindle-motors-c-71.html?osCsid=0f9ad975b8cb8c0ff64b7dfde1f9a0aa
[20:03:17] <awallin> and similar
[20:07:59] <danimal_garage> afternoon fellas
[20:24:13] <danimal_garage> cradek, do you think the stock servo amps and the pico resolver converter board would be better than going with the pico servo amps, assuming they could both be done for the same price?
[20:24:55] <awallin> resolver converter was only up to 1000rpm
[20:24:59] <awallin> is that a limit for you ?
[20:25:18] <danimal_garage> i think i can get those amps and some encoders for roughly the same cost as the resolver converters
[20:25:23] <awallin> the servo amp probably wants only hall-signals if you drive it in torque mode with EMC2
[20:25:55] <danimal_garage> i'd have to check the ballscrew pitch
[20:26:25] <danimal_garage> the stock servo amp, or the pico one?
[20:26:39] <awallin> what power servos do you want to drive?
[20:26:41] <cradek> awallin: 1000 RPS RPS RPS
[20:26:50] <awallin> oh :)
[20:26:59] <cradek> I think I keep correcting you on that...
[20:27:08] <danimal_garage> i'm not sure yet, the labels are long gone
[20:27:16] <danimal_garage> i doubt they are over 20a though
[20:27:24] <awallin> the pico-systems amps want only hall signals. a stock servo amp should want only hall-sigs in torque mode I think
[20:27:25] <danimal_garage> they look like brushed dc servos
[20:28:37] <awallin> pics?
[20:28:59] <danimal_garage> no pics yet... it's a hardinge HNC if it helps
[20:29:22] <cradek> yes they're brushed DC
[20:29:29] <cradek> this is a late 70s machine
[20:29:48] <danimal_garage> you lost me on the torque mode.. i havent gotten that far yet
[20:30:14] <cradek> I"m sure pico has a drive that will run those motors in torque (~= current) mode
[20:30:34] <awallin> 20A momentarily I think, not continuous
[20:30:42] <danimal_garage> i did see that the pico amps used hal signals
[20:30:54] <cradek> you would have to buy and mount encoders of course
[20:31:02] <danimal_garage> yea thats no biggie
[20:31:21] <danimal_garage> i can get encoders cheap locally
[20:31:41] <awallin> hall-signals are only for brushless. HAL is something else... :)
[20:31:42] <danimal_garage> lots of machines getting parted out around here lately
[20:31:50] <cradek> if you have working, stable, velocity mode amps - I can't see replacing them. velocity control is superior to torque.
[20:31:50] <danimal_garage> hmm
[20:32:17] <danimal_garage> they seem to work well cradek
[20:32:36] <cradek> torque can approach it - if you get the highest encoder resolution possible
[20:32:43] <danimal_garage> just want to explore my options before pulling the trigger
[20:33:07] <cradek> maybe you should call and talk to jon elson
[20:33:44] <cradek> kirk wallace (I think it was kirk) has one and he used the pico amps. from watching his videos and talking to him, I think he could not get anything like the original amps' acceleration
[20:33:55] <danimal_garage> really
[20:34:00] <danimal_garage> wow
[20:34:02] <cradek> his machine looks really sluggish compared to mine
[20:34:16] <cradek> but maybe he's just conservative with it - I don't have a lot to go on
[20:34:20] <danimal_garage> yea, the machine moves suprising quick
[20:34:37] <danimal_garage> WAY faster than my shizuoka
[20:34:54] <danimal_garage> i gotta call on those fanuc converter boards
[20:35:02] <danimal_garage> that pico makes
[20:35:13] <danimal_garage> i cant tell if it's only for 1 encoder, or 4
[20:35:21] <danimal_garage> looks like 4 from the picture
[20:36:01] <danimal_garage> fanuc encoder converter boards*
[20:37:10] <awallin> still wondering if you can get one index pulse per rev from a resolver?
[20:37:27] <awallin> anyway I will be mounting an incremental encoder on my resolver-servo
[20:38:06] <cradek> awallin: yes you can. they are an absolute positioning device.
[20:38:20] <danimal_garage> i need to get some home/limit switches on my machine
[20:38:52] <cradek> awallin: the pico board has an index pulse out
[20:38:54] <danimal_garage> i kinda think i need to so i can easily home my toolchanger
[20:40:09] <danimal_garage> i think i need to have it tool out before i home the turret, which means the machine needs to be in a certain spot, meaning i need home switches to do that easily
[20:40:55] <danimal_garage> (on my mill, not the lathe)
[20:46:43] <dimas> awallin, thanks
[20:51:32] <andypugh> awallin: Won't the encoder have an index?
[20:51:46] <awallin> yes. I will not use the resolver at all
[20:53:24] <andypugh> Though I think that resolver is just an ac voltage ratio, so a bit of A/D and DSP would work it.
[20:54:14] <awallin> sure... I'm just trying the KISS principle with everything this time round
[20:54:27] <awallin> for the mill I was eager to build and design everything myself
[20:54:30] <awallin> not anymore
[20:56:36] <andypugh> You could easily waste 24 or more IO bits trying to do it in software too
[20:56:36] <awallin> if there's a way of getting 20+ bit angle resolution out of them I'm interested for a telescope mount
[20:56:44] <awallin> that's over one million pulses per rev
[20:57:53] <andypugh> I was thinking two lots of 12 bits.
[20:58:39] <awallin> was looking at ebay item 110462725615 for a telescope mount...
[20:59:46] <andypugh> It's all in foreign!
[21:00:09] <andypugh> Nice thing though.
[21:01:13] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_variable_differential_transformer
[21:01:44] <awallin> infinite resolution
[21:04:35] <numen> hi
[21:07:12] <awallin> hm, some resolvers are listed as having +- 5 arc min electrical error
[21:07:18] <MrSunshine> anyone here familiar with heekscnc ? :)
[21:07:20] <awallin> http://www.moog.com/products/resolvers/low-cost-brushless-pancake-resolvers/size-22/
[21:07:39] <awallin> still about a factor 300x from the arc-sec resolution required
[21:07:56] <awallin> MrSunshine: I know there's been nice progress with heeks lately
[21:08:12] <awallin> but I guess the build-process is not trivial, and there are a lot of bugs still
[21:08:33] <MrSunshine> well, i need help with the zigzag operation in heeks ... :)
[21:12:01] <numen_> re
[21:20:21] <MrSunshine> yeey my first real heekscnc cadding is to become reality tomorrow =)
[21:20:28] <MrSunshine> hope it works :P
[21:20:41] <MrSunshine> problem is my motors losing steps for some reason on Z ... now and then :/
[21:24:33] <numen_> MrSunshine too fast?
[21:25:17] <MrSunshine> numen_, nah .. i think its something with the screw going a bit heavy ... have to look into it :) .. it screams of the screw when i run it fast even tho ive lubricated it
[21:25:40] <MrSunshine> numen_, cant go over like 400 mm/min without it hicking up while other axis i can take well above 1000
[21:26:16] <numen_> what a kind of screw?
[21:26:39] <MrSunshine> i think its a M10 they have grineded down the edges on :P
[21:26:45] <MrSunshine> im converting a seig X1
[21:27:16] <MrSunshine> gonna try with real fat as lubrication .. atm its just oil
[21:28:00] <numen_> normal m10 screw?
[21:28:09] <numen_> can you show a pic of the mill?
[21:32:51] <MrSunshine> not atm more then the pics that is on the net of the stock mills =)
[21:32:55] <DaViruz> no its trapezoid leadscrews on the X1
[21:32:58] <DaViruz> with 2mm pitch
[21:33:37] <MrSunshine> DaViruz, on Z ? :P
[21:33:40] <DaViruz> oooh
[21:33:43] <MrSunshine> on X and Y yes
[21:33:44] <DaViruz> never mind
[21:33:59] <MrSunshine> on Z its some grinded down M10 screw :P
[21:34:21] <DaViruz> indeed it is
[21:34:38] <DaViruz> i use grease on mine, oil didn't quite cut it
[21:34:54] <MrSunshine> i guess it wouldnt harm to put a cogged belt drive on it to make it a bit stronger as the mill head is kinda heavy
[21:35:23] <DaViruz> i have a compressed gas s pring to counter weight it
[21:50:51] <numen_> i hate beeing in train
[21:51:25] <Casainho> hello :-)
[21:51:44] <Casainho> I am getting a problem with EMC2, it's crashing at begin
[21:52:15] <numen_> what do you mean with crashing?
[21:52:37] <andypugh> What does dmesg say?
[21:52:42] <Casainho> numen_: oh, I saw just now the error message: /msg NickServ identify
[21:53:26] <Casainho> it says: /home/cas/emc2/configs/zenbot-emcrepstrap/repstrap-extruder.hal:20: pin 'pyvcp.extruder-connection' does not exist
[21:54:26] <andypugh> Do you have a link to your pyvcp file in the ini file?
[21:56:32] <andypugh> And does that create the pin?
[21:56:43] <Casainho> yes... but maybe something is wrong.. can you please verify on my ini file? http://pastebin.com/m48b63ccc
[21:57:34] <Casainho> I am trying to follow the instrctions on this page, for making a 3D printer using EMC2 and my CNC: http://objects.reprap.org/wiki/EMCRepStrap
[21:59:03] <andypugh> can you pastebin the pyvcp file too?
[22:00:06] <Casainho> here: http://pastebin.com/m7ca35eeb
[22:02:22] <andypugh> Ah, wait. A bit of reading indicates the problem. You can't refer to pyvcp components until the GUI is loaded, so the pyvcp references need to go in cutom_posgui.hal
[22:04:18] <Casainho> I don't understand...
[22:07:31] <Casainho> I got it... but after uncommented line #POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal
[22:08:08] <Casainho> well, after commented that line, under [HAL] section...
[22:08:26] <Casainho> EMC2 is now running with that custom gui :-)
[22:12:53] <jt-plasma> anyone know how to broadcast a web cam to a web page
[22:12:55] <jt-plasma> ?
[22:13:56] <Casainho> andypugh: thanks ;-)
[22:22:42] <alex_joni> jt-plasma: there are various ways
[22:22:56] <alex_joni> the easiest is to set up periodic snapshots, then ftp them up
[22:23:09] <alex_joni> more complecated scenarios involve mpeg streaming
[22:23:13] <alex_joni> or motion jpeg
[22:23:24] <jt-plasma> using w3web or something like that?
[22:23:24] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, you around??????????
[22:23:31] <Jymmm> no
[22:24:18] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Leave a message at the beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
[22:24:26] <LawrenceG> hey... have you ever heard of a windows live CD? I have to update the firmware in my dvdrw and all they provide is a windows exe..... doesnt work in wine
[22:24:52] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Yes, but it's a pita.
[22:25:11] <Jymmm> It might work for that though, hang on.
[22:25:45] <Jymmm> http://www.intowindows.com/create-live-xp-cd-how-to/
[22:26:02] <jt-plasma> the snapshots sound like what I need
[22:28:06] <Casainho> andypugh: ping
[22:38:43] <andypugh> Huh?
[22:38:43] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, looks easier to plug in a spare hd and install xp then do the update...
[22:38:43] <Casainho> andypugh: can you please give a quick look at this instructions: file:///media/disk/reprap/sam0737-hrepstrap/README/README.html#setup_guide
[22:38:43] <Casainho> andypugh: I mean here: http://github.com/sam0737/hrepstrap/raw/master/README/README.txt
[22:38:43] <numen> re from home
[22:38:43] <Casainho> it refers to [AXIS] section on init filebut I don't see that section on my init... :-(
[22:38:43] <numen> here are 30cm snow...
[22:48:12] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Heh told ya it's a pita =)
[22:55:16] <numen> why is it so cold here?
[23:08:15] <andypugh> Sorry Casainho, I was in the workshop
[23:50:55] <andypugh> I feel vaguely guilty that Casainho left before I came back. But if he need help from me he really does have problems.