#emc | Logs for 2009-11-29

[01:15:21] <MattyMatt> you might as well get a an a/d card
[01:16:13] <MattyMatt> a USB one
[01:18:03] <MattyMatt> 200 squiddles isn't excessively excessive
[01:19:10] <MattyMatt> 425 for the 100Mhz one is
[01:23:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping
[01:28:19] <Jymmm> convert 1156.375 cubic inches to gallons of water
[01:29:40] <MattyMatt> 5.00595238 US gallons
[01:29:53] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: how did you get that?
[01:30:17] <MattyMatt> pasted into google (except 'of water')
[01:30:25] <Jymmm> doh
[01:32:36] <Jymmm> Wait, that doesn't make sense. Water is !8lbs per gallon, Milk is ~10lbs per gallon.
[01:32:41] <Jymmm> ~
[01:33:19] <cradek> ~$ units 1156.375in3 gal
[01:33:20] <cradek> * 5.0059524
[01:33:27] <Jymmm> wouldn't the density of the fluid account for the capacity?
[01:33:40] <cradek> no, a gallon is a measure of volume
[01:33:51] <cradek> whether it has air or lead in it, it's still the same volume
[01:34:16] <cradek> ~$ units gal
[01:34:16] <cradek> Definition: gallon = usgallon = 231 in^3 = 0.0037854118 m^3
[01:34:38] <Jymmm> Hmmm, dont know what I was thinking. It's still 40lbs, which is what I wanted to know =)
[01:34:51] <cradek> what's 40 lb?
[01:34:51] <Jymmm> TY
[01:34:53] <SWPadnos> of water
[01:35:03] <Jymmm> yeah of water
[01:35:08] <SWPadnos> dirt would be closer to 200 pounds
[01:35:34] <SWPadnos> (well, average-earth-density dirt, that is)
[01:35:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Check out this website, shipping is like $0.99 http://www.taydaelectronics.com/servlet/the-94/MAX232-MAXIM-RS232-DRIVER/Detail
[01:36:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: they even have some of those ULM drivers too
[01:36:28] <SWPadnos> ULN280x?
[01:36:32] <Jymmm> yeah
[01:36:49] <Jymmm> even fpga's
[01:37:59] <SWPadnos> they're more expensive than DigiKey (which is rare)
[01:38:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: for?
[01:38:32] <SWPadnos> oh, just a sample FPGA I chose (400k gate, 208PQFP Spartan 3)
[01:38:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ah. Well $0.70 for a MAX232 is cheap
[01:39:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: look at OTHER IC's
[01:39:19] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:39:43] <SWPadnos> they don't seem to have a good selection of surface mount stuff, which is about all I use (other than connectors)
[01:40:03] <Jymmm> Dallas 1 wire temp $1.60/ea
[01:40:43] <Jymmm> LM335 $0.75
[01:41:12] <Jymmm> MAX232 $0.44 http://www.taydaelectronics.com/servlet/the-94/232-CONVERTER-DRIVER-MAX/Detail
[01:41:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: LN2803A $0.35 http://www.taydaelectronics.com/servlet/the-197/ULN2803A-ULN2803-TRANSISTOR-ARRAY-dsh-8/Detail
[01:42:01] <Jymmm> ULN2803a
[01:42:57] <cradek> for my rs232 run from the greenhouse to the basement I used a venerable 1488 because I didn't know if a MAX232 would drive it successfully
[01:43:10] <cradek> have either of you tried them with a long serial run?
[01:43:21] <SWPadnos> RS232 is only rated for something like 9600 baud beyond 25 feet
[01:43:32] <cradek> I used 2400 in this case
[01:43:47] <SWPadnos> and it's not rated for much more than a couple hundred feet at all
[01:43:57] <SWPadnos> 488/422 is much better
[01:43:58] <L84Supper> you won't know until you get the order but there are lots of Asian sources for components, you just don't always know how the parts were stored and handled
[01:44:32] <cradek> you are right, but that's not an answer to my question :-)
[01:44:32] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, yep, some good deals there, if that's stuff you need
[01:44:36] <SWPadnos> gotta run - got guests
[01:44:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:44:49] <cradek> the 1488 worked great, I get a perfectly square +-11v signal
[01:44:49] <SWPadnos> never used a max232 beyond 15 feet or so
[01:45:23] <cradek> http://geektrap.com/greenhouse/48hr
[02:21:37] <Jymmm> cradek: 1488 being?
[02:22:14] <Jymmm> I need to do a 50 ft run
[02:24:11] <spasticteapot> Is there any reason I can't take a big power drill and use it as a rotary buffer?
[02:24:25] <spasticteapot> I figure I can use a smaller wheel to compensate for the higher speed and lower torque.
[02:24:45] <Jymmm> spasticteapot: buffing what?
[02:25:21] <Jymmm> cradek: why is the air temp so dramatic on that graph?
[02:25:37] <spasticteapot> Jymmm: Steel, probably.
[02:25:40] <spasticteapot> Or aluminum.
[02:25:52] <spasticteapot> Actually, mostly aluminum.
[02:26:04] <eric_unterhausen> spasticteapot: did I see you post in framebuiding on bikeforums
[02:27:18] <spasticteapot> Yep.
[02:27:51] <spasticteapot> I can't actually ride anymore, but since I'm using what appears to be surplus bicycle tubing for a project....
[02:28:00] <spasticteapot> Arthritis sucks. Arthritis at age 19 sucks more.
[02:44:53] <Jymmm> Hawt damn! Looks like MAX3070 might do the trick!
[02:52:43] <jimbo655> Where does one find information on touchy? I am interested in input output pins etc.....
[03:29:33] <spasticteapot> If I'm making a router table, is there any reason I can't make the mounting plate out of aluminum?
[03:31:53] <MattyMatt> none. if you use extrusions you get free T slots
[03:32:46] <MattyMatt> There's someone on ebay selling milled steel tables if you want stronger
[03:33:19] <cradek> not faced flat I hope
[03:33:29] <MattyMatt> with T slots
[03:33:52] <cradek> man I wouldn't want to cut T slots in steel...
[03:35:28] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/18x6x1-1-4-Cast-Iron-Milling-Machine-Table-T-Slots-CNC_W0QQitemZ330380176418
[03:35:35] <MattyMatt> he does wider ones too
[03:36:10] <MattyMatt> "MADE FROM SOLID GREY CLASS 40 CAST IRON "
[03:36:15] <MattyMatt> sorry not steel
[03:36:38] <spasticteapot> MattyMatt: thanks much.
[03:36:51] <toast_> it takes forever
[03:36:55] <toast_> (t slots in steel)
[03:37:18] <spasticteapot> I'm on a very limited budget, and I'd rather not buy a $40 phenolic mounting point from Woodcraft.
[03:38:02] <spasticteapot> I'm just learning all of this stuff, but I figure that drilling a few holes in some aluminum can't be too hard - especially considering I just bought a great big drill press. :)
[03:38:20] <spasticteapot> Is there a good place to get carbide bits on the internet? Also, is it possible to resharpen solid carbide bits?
[03:38:23] <MattyMatt> ah, the tool mounting plate
[03:38:37] <cradek> an expert can resharpen carbide
[03:38:51] <cradek> takes special equipment of course
[03:38:57] <tom3p> you can build tslotted plates by addition: plate, flat bars with space between, thin wider flat bars with less space between
[03:38:58] <cradek> for small bits (1/4) it's surely not worth it
[03:39:06] <MattyMatt> I tried to regrind a hss bit with dismal results
[03:39:19] <MattyMatt> no special equipment
[03:39:26] <toast_> also something worth mentioning is just to bolt an aluminum plate to whatever you've got
[03:39:33] <toast_> and drill and tap holes whereever you need them
[03:39:41] <toast_> you'll get a surprising amount of mileage out of one plate
[03:40:20] <MattyMatt> mm that's a plan
[03:40:21] <toast_> unless this is a discussion about making a machine table, in which case disregard that
[03:40:26] <MattyMatt> for my plywood table
[03:41:09] <toast_> It's really nice because you can also drill holes for pins
[03:41:18] <MattyMatt> but we're not discussing tables, but mounting plates. I've made that out of plywood too :)
[03:41:23] <toast_> and so you just throw the plate up and drill 2 pins on one axis, and 1 on another
[03:41:31] <toast_> bolt or toe clamp, and then pull the pins out
[03:42:09] <toast_> a co-worker does this so much he made little L pins specifically to do it, they're great.
[03:43:20] <MattyMatt> 1/4" photo registration pins are what my users are used to
[03:43:39] <toast_> not sure what those are
[03:43:54] <MattyMatt> pretty much like LP spindles
[03:43:58] <toast_> oh
[03:44:24] <toast_> good analogy.
[03:44:31] <MattyMatt> but with 2 flats, so punched holes can't twist
[03:45:40] <MattyMatt> I haven't really thought about clamping yet, but toe clamps would be nice
[03:46:44] <toast_> camlocks also work and are cheap if milling forces aren't too high
[03:46:52] <toast_> the little eccentric hex bolt kind
[03:47:18] <MattyMatt> yeah, tedious to make by hand tho
[03:47:26] <toast_> yeah but they're cheap to buy
[03:47:50] <MattyMatt> I wish this guy lived in UK -> http://cgi.ebay.com/ACME-1-2-10-Leadscrew-Delrin-Nut-Bearing-Block-Set_W0QQitemZ230404120433
[03:50:01] <eric_unterhausen> that sucks, no output from the 7i33
[03:50:08] <MattyMatt> locally, walking distance :) $25 would go a long way then
[03:51:36] <cradek> MattyMatt: my thoughts when seeing that auction: "well that looks pretty easy to make with a mill and lathe" very quickly followed by "how the hell does he sell it for $25?"
[03:52:19] <MattyMatt> maybe this is what he makes when he's thinking about what to do
[03:52:23] <eric_unterhausen> usually his stuff isn't that cheap
[03:52:47] <eric_unterhausen> his little routers go for $600 or something
[03:53:20] <MattyMatt> well, he does hand make all the leadscrews :)
[03:53:30] <MattyMatt> that's class
[03:53:48] <cradek> how can that possibly be cost-effective?
[03:54:26] <toast_> if he has machines set to one pitch...
[03:54:37] <MattyMatt> because if he doesn't sell some before the wife finds out about the induction hardener, he's in trouble
[03:57:07] <spasticteapot> Induction hammer?
[03:57:41] <MattyMatt> it's like a furnace, but shaft-shaped
[03:57:54] <MattyMatt> for heat treating shafts
[03:58:14] <fenn> is $25 for some acme rod, nut, and bearings expensive or cheap?
[03:58:52] <MattyMatt> it seems about right to me, which means it's cheap
[03:59:53] <fenn> people are bidding ~$30 on his other auctions with just 3 bearings or 3 nuts
[04:00:01] <MattyMatt> single start so he's not optimising them for cnc
[04:00:29] <fenn> single start acme is cheap
[04:00:49] <MattyMatt> the nuts aren't
[04:01:06] <MattyMatt> unless you mooch them from a jack or sth
[04:01:27] <fenn> huh? the nuts are made from plastic and tapped
[04:02:18] <MattyMatt> yeah it's not bronze :)
[04:03:20] <fenn> meh
[04:03:24] <MattyMatt> I'll stick to allthread until I can mill sth better
[04:03:44] <fenn> unplated allthread is not too bad actually
[04:03:54] <fenn> with a brass nut
[04:04:14] <MattyMatt> this is zinced
[04:11:14] <MattyMatt> I notice he uses deep groove bearings as thrust bearings too. that's just gotta be worng
[04:14:28] <Jymmm> fenn: 1/2" acme ?
[04:15:00] <fenn> ~$10/6ft from enco
[04:15:20] <Jymmm> and a couple bucks per nut
[04:15:58] <MattyMatt> you use a lot of nuts when you can't machine the ends
[04:16:23] <Jymmm> and of course enco is offline atm
[04:17:30] <fenn> i wouldnt use acme if i couldnt machine the ends
[04:18:06] <Jymmm> fenn: no lathe here =)
[04:18:09] <MattyMatt> tapped connector and a locknut solves most ills
[04:18:20] <fenn> hire a machinist
[04:18:29] <Jymmm> fsck that
[04:18:36] <Jymmm> cheaper just to use more nuts
[04:18:50] <MattyMatt> with that kinda $olution I'll buy a lathe :)
[04:19:05] <fenn> heh
[04:19:40] <fenn> actually i'd just use 5/16 in that situation
[04:19:59] <MattyMatt> M8 is what I can buy
[04:20:02] <fenn> with crap skate bearings (608)
[04:20:13] <fenn> m8 is better
[04:20:13] <MattyMatt> yep them too
[04:22:29] <MattyMatt> a bit flexible on my Y, 1m long
[04:22:58] <MattyMatt> I'd like to arrange proper bearings thrust bearings to stretch it a bit
[04:24:36] <MattyMatt> or I'll live with it until I switch to sth stiffer
[04:25:53] <MattyMatt> I may convert Y to belt drive when I can afford a big motor etc, I've got a ballscrew on X and then I want acme on Z so the tool doesn't droop on e-stop
[04:26:24] <fenn> you could counterbalance Z
[04:26:34] <fenn> so it goes up instead :P
[04:27:21] <MattyMatt> that would interfere with my headchanger plans, unless all heads are carefully weighted :)
[04:27:58] <MattyMatt> hmm yeah up instead
[04:28:51] <fenn> headchanger?
[04:29:10] <MattyMatt> yeah 4x $20 spindles
[04:29:17] <MattyMatt> easier than changing tools :)
[04:30:49] <MattyMatt> the heads are stored in a rack above the gantry. and can be lifted off by hand when not in use
[04:32:14] <MattyMatt> I'm not building it yet :) but I'm keeping it in mind when designing the spindle mounting plate
[04:33:02] <MattyMatt> I'll have quick change heads before auto
[04:33:09] <fenn> $20 spindle probably wont last long
[04:33:23] <MattyMatt> another good reason to buy 4
[04:33:30] <fenn> blah
[04:34:18] <fenn> buy treadmill motor, timing pulleys, and some bearings, and find someone with a lathe to borow
[04:35:03] <MattyMatt> it'll make it easier to change brand. I can have a 1.5", 1.75" etc.
[04:35:07] <fenn> is this a mill or router?
[04:35:22] <fenn> i guess router if you're using allthread
[04:35:22] <MattyMatt> 8" Z
[04:35:33] <MattyMatt> light mill :)
[04:35:42] <fenn> ok so the question becomes "are you cutting plastics"?
[04:35:50] <MattyMatt> probably
[04:36:05] <MattyMatt> mostly wood and I'll attempt alu & brass
[04:36:13] <fenn> then you want a spindle with the ability to go slower than 5krpm
[04:36:30] <MattyMatt> that'll be the old pre-hammer B&D
[04:36:54] <fenn> huh ok.. is that loud?
[04:36:54] <MattyMatt> that's what I need the 38mm (1.5") mounting for
[04:37:22] <fenn> * fenn hates noisy power tools
[04:37:27] <MattyMatt> not too bad. nice bearings, cast shell
[04:38:21] <MattyMatt> 900 or 2400 rpm
[04:39:13] <MattyMatt> other spindle is 3/4" ring mount, same as dremel, and won't go below 11krpm
[04:40:34] <MattyMatt> then if I'm rich enough to get a proper spindle, I can make a mount for that, and still have room for a couple of $20 ones
[04:40:53] <MattyMatt> 20 gbp actually, but keyb is still bugged
[04:41:41] <MattyMatt> I'm building the whole machine in a sound/dust proof box.
[04:42:18] <MattyMatt> I'd get more grief about sawdust, but I'll appreciate the quiet myself :)
[04:42:43] <fenn> less sawdust going everywhere sounds good to me
[04:43:40] <MattyMatt> it means I can have a blower in the tool nozzle. better
[04:44:18] <MattyMatt> and no guard needed, as the box is the guard
[04:47:51] <MattyMatt> I suppose with the right tools, I should be able to mill steel
[04:48:04] <MattyMatt> certainly drilling
[04:48:58] <MattyMatt> ah it depends how stiff my woodwork is when it all starts vibrating
[04:53:39] <eric_unterhausen> When used with HostMot2 firmware, the PWM generators PDM
[04:53:40] <eric_unterhausen> option should be chosen with a frequency of 6 MHz
[04:54:08] <eric_unterhausen> trying to figure out how that translates to a hal command
[05:04:33] <eric_unterhausen> is this true? value '005B8D80' invalid for U32
[05:05:35] <MattyMatt> just a guess, 0x005B8D80?
[05:06:10] <eric_unterhausen> ok, but I'm still confused
[05:06:26] <eric_unterhausen> I have a line right after that that uses leading zeros
[05:07:31] <eric_unterhausen> it stops giving errors after the first one
[05:08:17] <eric_unterhausen> the halrun "save" command is not exactly up to snuff
[05:10:26] <eric_unterhausen> which would explain why my system didn't run before
[05:14:48] <toast_> victory is yours.
[05:15:23] <eric_unterhausen> or something
[05:27:22] <cradek> in C and therefore often in C-based programs, a leading zero is octal notation. MattyMatt is right that leading 0x means hex.
[05:28:05] <cradek> in that case, 005B8D80 may just be an invalid number, same as 123zzz456 is
[05:28:47] <eric_mill> needed a leading x
[05:29:14] <eric_mill> well, progress at least, I was bit by the watchdog
[05:29:18] <cradek> ok that agrees with what I was guessing
[05:30:40] <eric_mill> apparently, halrun save command spits out hex numbers without the x
[05:30:59] <cradek> oh really, and then it can't load them back in?
[05:31:03] <cradek> that's surely a bug then
[05:31:07] <eric_mill> nope
[05:32:43] <cradek> is that a param?
[05:33:40] <eric_mill> yes
[05:34:59] <Jymmm> looks like a mac address to me
[05:35:42] <eric_mill> really? which manufacturer?
[05:39:20] <Jymmm> not listed
[05:40:17] <Jymmm> where's that number from?
[05:42:24] <cradek> eric_mill: fixed in git master
[05:42:41] <Jymmm> 0, 91, 141, 208
[05:43:49] <eric_mill> cradek, thanks
[05:44:47] <eric_mill> I whine a lot while I'm learning, sorry about that
[05:45:15] <cradek> reporting a bug is not a whine
[05:45:42] <cradek> I bet that's an old one too. I don't think U32 are used much. I don't think halcmd save is used much.
[05:45:48] <cradek> but the combination was certainly wrong
[05:46:29] <cradek> depending on the value it could have been misinterpreted as octal or decimal when rereading. in those cases it would have given wrong results instead of an error - ick.
[05:46:33] <eric_mill> probably not, I'm trying to make sure my circuitry is right before I hook up some fairly powerful servos
[08:22:49] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[09:39:52] <numen> good morning
[09:51:05] <roh> morning
[09:52:37] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[10:03:46] <micges> hi
[10:14:00] <roh> hi micges
[10:14:20] <roh> micges you are the right guy to ask for lasercutters with emc2, right?
[10:14:34] <micges> I hope so
[10:14:48] <micges> I have few
[10:15:35] <micges> what's the problem
[10:15:36] <micges> ?
[10:16:46] <roh> i am not quite clear about the z axis and what or how one regulates laser power and state from gcode
[10:16:58] <roh> what do you use to generate the toolpaths?
[10:18:43] <roh> ive seen from some screenshot that you got emc2 with axis running on X and Y only.. did you patch it or is that possible by config only?
[10:18:44] <micges> I use my own dxf->cam 2d generator
[10:19:12] <micges> it is possible by config
[10:20:02] <roh> cool. what does the on/off switching of the laser? some custom M-code?
[10:20:03] <micges> laser power is regulated by simple hal component
[10:20:47] <micges> based on current velcoity
[10:21:15] <micges> I use simply m4/m5
[10:21:57] <roh> so its basically on/off tied to the spindle and attach power-level to speed to get a constant cut depth independant of feedrate?
[10:22:34] <micges> but I have laser cutters that on/off time and such are less importand that THC
[10:23:59] <micges> roh: can you describe what do you want to do (or problem you have)?
[10:24:16] <roh> we have ordered a 2keuro 40x40cm china laser unit
[10:24:27] <roh> 40x40cm workpiece max
[10:24:48] <micges> source + table?
[10:25:01] <roh> it will have supposedly 50watt and does have a manual pot for laser power and some ugly sw called moshidraw
[10:25:29] <roh> they have some cpu in the box which executes a toolpath copied into a 32kbyte sram on the box
[10:26:10] <roh> micges http://cgi.ebay.de/CO2-Laser-Gravieren-Gravur-Stempel-Schneiden-USB-PC-CO_W0QQitemZ170403314418QQ such a box
[10:26:42] <roh> we will propably remove the controller and use the existing stepper amps and controll it from emc2 via parport then.
[10:26:58] <roh> if thats too slow, get some mesa card i guess.
[10:27:38] <Jymmm> roh: When you get that laser, PLEASE let me know what you find out
[10:27:54] <roh> will do for sure
[10:28:16] <Jymmm> roh: Also, I *think* they use a security dongle for the software
[10:28:37] <roh> that too. but since moshidraw will die as fast as possible i dont care much
[10:29:01] <Jymmm> roh: LOTS of hi-res pics and video of everything would be nice. even before you unpack the boxes
[10:29:17] <micges> chinese soft was used here by 10 min or so :)
[10:29:38] <roh> http://www.imajeenyus.com/v6/laser_cutter/laser_cutter.shtml got the small brother (less cutting table size) of the same class of machine
[10:30:47] <roh> http://www.synthfool.com/laser/ also got one, in bad condition
[10:30:50] <roh> but lots of pics
[10:31:14] <Jymmm> roh: Remember the naked eye can't see the beam, But a video camera CAN
[10:32:15] <Jymmm> roh: that might help during alignment
[10:32:22] <roh> i know.. i use my phone for ir a lot
[10:32:33] <roh> my hd cam does have a sinister good ir filter
[10:32:59] <micges> roh: those pics remind me when chinese waterjet was delivered :D, same high qality contructions :D
[10:33:03] <roh> so for checking optical fibre wiring it helps holding a razr in front of the patchpanel *g*
[10:33:17] <Jymmm> heh, I'll have to remember that
[10:35:49] <Jymmm> roh: I've wanted a laser FAR longer than I wanted a cnc router. but back then this chinese stuff wasn't really around
[10:36:07] <micges> Jymmm: we have to rebuild all mechanics in chinese waterjet that costs 100000$
[10:36:19] <Jymmm> roh: So, keep me informed, or toss up as much details as you can on a blog somewhere
[10:36:38] <roh> it will end up in our planet
[10:36:38] <Jymmm> micges: even the motion?
[10:37:03] <micges> yep
[10:37:04] <micges> HUGE fail
[10:37:14] <micges> next time we build one ourself
[10:37:33] <Jymmm> micges: colaminator too?
[10:37:41] <roh> heh.. we tried buying a used trodat box, but it peaked from 500 euro to 1500, which was too much for a 25W box with worn down lasertube
[10:39:25] <micges> Jymmm: what's colaminator?
[10:39:47] <roh> micges we got a syil bf20 vario 3axis cnc mill which seems to be from china too and found it to be ok for the money so far.
[10:39:55] <Jymmm> micges: the last thing the laser beam hits before hitting the material
[10:40:14] <Jymmm> micges: it taper the beam to a tight spot
[10:40:34] <Jymmm> micges: it tapers the beam to a tight spot
[10:40:38] <roh> the make it parallel again -lens?
[10:40:53] <micges> I see
[10:40:56] <Jymmm> =====>------
[10:41:06] <micges> Jymmm: I was talking about waterjet
[10:41:08] <Jymmm> suck ascii drawing
[10:41:46] <roh> micges have you ever tried lasering a pcb?
[10:42:14] <roh> means vaporizing the 0.35 micron copper on the fibre plate
[10:42:31] <Jymmm> micges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collimator
[10:42:32] <micges> nope but its interesting
[10:42:34] <roh> i wonder how mmuch power iss needed for that and if its possible at all
[10:42:59] <roh> heard that steel is easier to laser than copper, brass and alu, due to some reflection being stronger there
[10:43:20] <micges> yes
[10:43:35] <micges> what do you want to burn is that box?
[10:43:40] <micges> pcb only?
[10:44:18] <roh> nah.. different kinds of things. cutting plywood, platics, acryillic stuff.. soem engraving.
[10:44:39] <Jymmm> roh: Do NOT use PVC with a laser
[10:44:41] <roh> pcbs would be nice, but we got a new proxxon spindle now, which will be used for pcbs as soon as mounted on the mill
[10:45:11] <roh> the big millhead is too slow for pcb (3000rpm)
[10:46:07] <Jymmm> roh: Do not use any plastics with "chrloride" in the name
[10:46:48] <roh> Jymmm hehe.. ive heard of that.. we will make a list whats do and donts
[10:47:13] <roh> and find a way to blow the dirty air outside
[10:47:18] <Jymmm> roh: besides killing yourself, it's a great way to kill your laser too
[10:47:53] <Jymmm> roh: it will outgas and coat the lenses
[10:47:57] <roh> Jymmm i think we dont have a mirror and optics air pressure inpiut yet.. that will be one of the first addons.
[10:48:21] <Jymmm> roh: you mean you still need a blower
[10:48:21] <roh> got a compressor already, just need to fetch it
[10:48:52] <roh> also need it for the mill
[10:48:56] <Jymmm> roh: you need a blower to exhaust the gases with 3-4" diam hose
[10:49:14] <roh> Jymmm there is some delivered with the laser i think
[10:49:16] <Jymmm> 4" or bigger is better, two 3" otherwise
[10:49:26] <Jymmm> roh: ok
[10:49:46] <Jymmm> alright, I'm outta here
[10:49:47] <roh> will need to do some brazil 'ducts' scene on one point but that will work
[10:51:22] <micges> roh: for simple cutting materials emc 2D with m4/m5 gcodes without power control will be enough
[10:51:38] <micges> but for engraving it's much more complicated
[10:52:01] <micges> we didn't build any engraving only machine
[10:52:03] <roh> micges ok. thanks for that info... do you have your dxf-gcode code somewhere?
[10:53:05] <micges> http://sourceforge.net/projects/vec2ngc/
[10:53:40] <roh> thanks
[11:05:54] <micges> roh: only loading DXF works, gcode output will be fixed soon
[11:08:09] <roh> we'll see what we use then
[11:08:29] <roh> found some inkscape-gcode plugin in the wiki too we want to try out yet
[11:08:45] <roh> eventually heeks should get a button for that *g*
[11:08:57] <roh> eh. possibly
[11:09:28] <roh> micges where are you located? i'm in berlin, germany
[11:09:54] <micges> I'm thorn Poland
[11:09:59] <micges> Thorn
[11:10:12] <micges> 400km from you
[11:10:14] <roh> ah.. cool.. thats atleast europe ;)
[11:11:25] <roh> well.. hopefully the machine arrives still this year
[11:32:56] <jthornton> micges: vec2ngc is cool
[11:33:07] <jthornton> can you zoom in and out?
[11:33:12] <micges> nope
[11:33:32] <micges> jthornton: but I saw that gcode output hangs
[11:35:28] <jthornton> ok
[11:40:05] <numen> roh du bist aus deutschland?
[11:40:18] <roh> numen ack
[11:41:04] <numen> was hast du denn an cnc?`
[11:41:52] <roh> ne syil bf20 vario mit kugelumlaufspindeln in der raumfahrtagentur.
[11:41:57] <roh> hackerspace in berlin.
[11:42:29] <roh> mit reprap extruder zum links dranklemmen. laeuft auch mit emc
[11:42:53] <numen> ok
[11:43:06] <roh> raumfahrtagentur.org hat ein paar photos
[11:48:01] <numen> nice
[11:48:21] <jthornton> micges: did you write the code for vec2ngc?
[11:48:51] <micges> yes it's ripped out from my axis
[11:49:52] <jthornton> cool
[11:50:10] <micges> My Axis have build in cam, import dxf, plt, ngc, cf2
[11:50:36] <jthornton> cool
[11:51:42] <roh> have that documented somewhere?
[11:54:27] <micges> nope
[11:56:30] <micges> bbl, food time
[13:22:55] <numen_> numen_ is now known as numen
[13:43:06] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[13:50:40] <MattyMatt> I wish I had money to burn http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MATROX-QUAD-32MB-PCI-G2-QUADP-PL-DMS59-TO-VGA-CABLES_W0QQitemZ250495271929
[13:51:40] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:26:09] <tom3p> roh: did you have scaling problems?
[15:06:15] <ries_> Hey All, I was reading about chatter on CNC machine, now my machine isn't cutting yet, but what causes chatter??
[15:06:48] <awalli1> backlash
[15:06:54] <cradek> incorrect tooling, incorrect speed or feed, inadequate work holding, inadequate machine stiffness
[15:06:57] <awalli1> sloppy ways/linear-rails
[15:06:58] <cradek> .....
[15:07:45] <cradek> it's a constant battle on some kinds of work (like boring)
[15:07:50] <ries_> so... many things...
[15:07:55] <cradek> many many
[15:08:08] <Jymmm> My new scope... http://hackaday.com/2009/10/19/dso-nano-oscilloscope-reviewed/
[15:08:39] <Jymmm> (potentially =)
[15:08:57] <ries_> let me rephrase my question, what happens during chatter? Is it resonance in the machine + parts?
[15:09:42] <cradek> Jymmm: bleh
[15:09:43] <ries_> Jymmm: that's a cool little device :)
[15:10:01] <cradek> I wouldn't want it as an only scope, but it is cool
[15:10:05] <andypugh> Yes. But there is a feedback, you "record" the chatter on the part surface, then replay it (possibly with amplification) next time round...
[15:10:10] <Jymmm> cradek: You know you like it =)
[15:11:25] <Jymmm> cradek: You know you just wan the girls to say "Is that a scope in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"
[15:11:34] <andypugh> Hmm, is there an iphone oscilloscope app? You would need a dongle to interface to the audio channels, obviously.
[15:11:36] <tom3p> Jymmm: really nice, i was surprised it was a kit, not just a hack
[15:11:57] <Jymmm> I'm still reading the review.... http://www.justblair.co.uk/seeed-studio-dso-nano-pocket-digital-storage-oscilloscope-review.html
[15:13:22] <ries_> andypugh: ic ic... understood
[15:14:20] <tom3p> ries: the chatter is the tool >not<cutting and just pushing stock (due to some looseness or dullness..) then the tool has advanced to where the looseness is 'taken up and the cutter cuts again. this 'lump' is repeated over and over, aggravating itself and chattering ( whats all this chitter chatter... i'm shattererd [stones])
[15:15:47] <Jymmm> It's going to be open source
[15:16:21] <Jymmm> video http://vimeo.com/6791008
[15:18:40] <Jymmm> Simply put, I like it. you could toss it in your toolbox easily enough.
[15:19:12] <Jymmm> I think I'd wait to Gen 2 though.
[15:23:04] <andypugh> This is probably a daft question, but where should I look to see which 7i43 / Hostmot2 config file is which?
[15:39:57] <tom3p> seeed design (behind nano dso) has lots of interesting products, see catalog (even another teeny diy dso)
[15:40:30] <tom3p> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/digital-storage-oscilloscope-with-panels-p-514.html
[15:41:58] <Jymmm> $50 or 490 for the cool color one =), and spare probes for it are $1.50 =)
[15:42:03] <Jymmm> $89
[15:44:32] <tom3p> i dont like micro hooks instead of probes, but it might be easy to adapt a regular probe. micro hooks are really suited to 90 degree connections, and being able to bare the probe tip is handy ( remove the witches cap from the probe tip )
[15:44:39] <tom3p> bbl
[16:26:17] <tom31> ah, it was gweepprefect that had scaling issues. he discovered he had imperial screw not metric. he had been entering '20320' for scale and changed to '20000'. but he must have changed unit of measure someplace also. i dont find the final explanation on emc logs.
[16:32:24] <andypugh> Does anyone know what the Stepgen Table 1/2/3/4/5 pins are in the 7i43 pinout tables? Are they available as GPIO?
[16:33:19] <andypugh> I am trying to work out how to maxmise my GPIO and it seems that the plan might be to choose a 12 stepper config, then not use 8 of them so that their allocated pins are GPIO pins.
[16:34:23] <andypugh> I can't really sort out my wiring until I know, and I can't fire it all up and see what I get until it is wired...
[16:36:38] <jt-plasma> andypugh: any unused pins are GPIO
[16:37:30] <andypugh> Yes, I got that bit, I am wondering whether stepgen.1.Table4 is GPIO or not.
[16:37:53] <jt-plasma> where are you looking?
[16:38:01] <andypugh> The .pin files allocate all pins.
[16:39:32] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma tries to remember where the .pin files are but can't
[16:40:39] <andypugh> I got them as part of the software pakage from Mesanet
[16:41:41] <jt-plasma> the firmware you use needs to match the pinout of the daughter card your using
[16:42:03] <andypugh> I don't have any daughter cards
[16:42:55] <jt-plasma> oh, you have the 7i43 as I read back
[16:42:59] <andypugh> I am mainly using it as a parallel port with extra pins, though I will use the onboard stepgens and encoders
[16:43:58] <andypugh> Looks like I need to do it in 2 stages. Wire up the power and comms, and then start a config, and see what pins I end up with in HAL
[16:44:38] <andypugh> Then if the 4-stepper config allocates all the pins, I will use a 12-stepper config and only declare 4 steppers.
[16:44:40] <jt-plasma> will emc load up with your 7i43 card?
[16:44:55] <jt-plasma> do you only need steppers?
[16:45:11] <Nick001> I have a problem with a newly installed emc and ubuntu 8.04. Trying to do comp --install turret.comp and I am getting all kinds of garbage with the comp command. No such thing pointing me to two email programs but that is also a no go. Comp is also listed as command unknown. What am I missing?
[16:45:48] <andypugh> Not yet, EMC is in the garage, the 7i43 is on the table next to the computer, and the power supplies and drivers are upstairs in the spare bedroom / indoor workshop
[16:45:49] <cradek> what's the all kinds of garbage?
[16:46:18] <jt-plasma> andypugh: do you need only steppers?
[16:46:30] <andypugh> At the moment, yes.
[16:46:57] <Nick001> No such command, points me to two email programs one of which downloads and the other one isn't there but after that still no comp command (unknown command).
[16:46:58] <andypugh> Though I just ordered a couple of servos from that eBay for messing about with.
[16:47:20] <jt-plasma> you need the card installed to see what pins are used by what
[16:47:42] <jt-plasma> is your card a 200k or 400k gate
[16:48:32] <andypugh> OK, so I need to wire up the card and parallel interface, put the box together, boot it up to see what pins are what, then dismantle it all again to wire the physical pins to the stepper drivers.
[16:48:45] <cradek> oh it sounds like you don't have comp installed. maybe you have not installed the emc2-dev package?
[16:48:48] <andypugh> 400k gate (as They were out of stock of 200k ones)
[16:50:07] <Nick001> Is that the name of it and would I use the apt-get install emc2-dev command?
[16:50:08] <jt-plasma> you will have to use a firmware that ends in B
[16:50:29] <andypugh> B?
[16:50:44] <jt-plasma> like SVST4_4B
[16:51:13] <jt-plasma> not SVST4_4
[16:51:39] <andypugh> cradek: I just checked, it seems that ubuntu guesses that the "comp" command is part of some email packages.
[16:51:49] <andypugh> OK, thenks JT
[16:52:18] <jt-plasma> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//drivers_hostmot2.html#r1_11
[16:52:29] <Nick001> The only two extra packages I put in was build-dep emc2 and was told to install build-essential autoconf and the second one wasn't there.
[16:53:14] <andypugh> Nick001 sudo apt-get install emc2-dev is what you need
[16:53:30] <jt-plasma> andypugh: put your card in and run one of the sample configs then do a dmesg to see the pinout and look at Hal Configuration to see the pin names
[16:54:14] <jt-plasma> anyone know how to set up streaming video from my web cam so robh can look at my display on my Hardinge?
[16:54:24] <andypugh> Thanks JT. It is just a bit of a pain to part-build the box with the card in but unwired, boot it up, then dismantle it all again.
[16:54:49] <jt-plasma> I followed this but something is borked as there is no video http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1194630
[16:55:09] <jt-plasma> andypugh: that seems to be the only way I think
[16:55:15] <andypugh> <disappears to the land of the Soldering Iron>
[16:56:23] <jt-plasma> andypugh: I think the main differences are where the stepgens and encoders etc are
[16:56:23] <jimbo7555> Any body up for questions on touchy interface?
[16:56:27] <andypugh> It also means that I have to totally disable the machine while I get it reconfigured, whereas I was hoping to do the groundwork on paper first
[16:56:42] <cradek> dataja
[17:01:17] <jt-plasma> the table ones are gpio
[17:01:48] <jt-plasma> andypugh: I just looked at my dmesg print out of my 5i20 and all the Table.. one are GPIO
[17:03:54] <Nick001> thanks - I'll go try it and get back
[17:13:22] <cradek> jimbo7555: dataja means "don't ask to ask, just ask". it means if someone sees your question they will answer it if they can, but they won't promise to be able to help (by ansewring "anyone up for questions?") without knowing what you want exactly
[17:15:05] <andypugh> jt-plasma: Thanks, that's a big help.
[17:16:21] <jt-plasma> np
[17:17:41] <andypugh> (I came back down to check if RS sell a way to mount PCBs to DIN rail. I think I would be sharpening pencils and tidying desks if I they worked as excuses to not just settle down and get started)
[17:31:26] <tom31> i love it, the supplied ini for the sable-2015 had SCALE at 533.3333 for its 1.5mm pitch lead screw, but now, with 532.500, my 123 blocks fit perfect at 0,25.4,50.8,25.4,0 sweet :)
[17:38:18] <mikunos> hi guys I'm a newbie. I would like to start to build my first CNC router. Does anybody here help me?
[17:38:28] <mikunos> I'm a linux user too
[17:38:43] <tom31> just ask , maybe someone knows how to help
[17:38:55] <tom31> tom31 is now known as tom3p
[17:40:05] <tom3p> does anyone use G17.1? ( does anyone have a uv axis?)
[17:40:32] <Danimal> cool i didnt know emc2 could do a uv axis
[17:41:04] <Danimal> a homemade waterjet or wire edm would be sweet
[17:41:24] <tom3p> or oscilating head for jig grinder
[17:41:25] <Danimal> although a major PITA
[17:41:40] <Danimal> oh yea that too
[17:41:50] <cradek> tom3p: I've used G17.1 G83 W-1 ... to drill in W on a 5 axis setup
[17:41:51] <Danimal> might be cool for a plasma as well
[17:41:54] <tom3p> or upper guide for hot wire cheese slicer
[17:42:23] <Danimal> haha
[17:42:24] <tom3p> cradek so it has application with W even tho no uv
[17:43:01] <cradek> yes for drill cycles
[17:43:40] <Danimal> cradek: i priced the bulk of the stuff i need for my hmc emc2 conversion, and it works out to about 700
[17:44:10] <mikunos> guys any help?
[17:44:31] <cradek> mikunos: go ahead and ask your questions. if someone knows the answer, they will answer.
[17:44:38] <Danimal> so for less than $2000, i'll have a cnc lathe
[17:44:47] <mikunos> cradek ok
[17:44:54] <cradek> Danimal: what is the list of things included in that price?
[17:45:43] <mikunos> I need to know which is the right way to start a new cnc router
[17:45:48] <Danimal> the 2 pico resolver to encoder converters, a 5i20, a 7i42 breakout board, and a 7i33
[17:46:10] <mikunos> have you a plan? or a tutorial to do it?
[17:46:26] <mikunos> I have seen on the web and there are many cnc routers
[17:46:37] <andypugh> Has anyone on here found a neater way to connect to the 50-way headers on the Mesa boards than using standard IDC then seperating the wires and ignoring the grounds?
[17:46:45] <mikunos> but I don't want waste time
[17:47:02] <mikunos> but I would like to create it all by myself
[17:47:32] <andypugh> mikunos: The best way is to look at lots of other projects, and decide where they went wrong.
[17:47:43] <SWPadnos> andypugh, DIN-rail mounted header -> terminal adapters
[17:47:54] <SWPadnos> and/or opto-22 I/O cards, depending
[17:47:59] <mikunos> andypugh ok
[17:48:25] <tom3p> andypugh: winford engineering, din rail mount breakouts
[17:48:34] <Danimal> cradek, doesnt the spindle have a resolver on it as well?
[17:48:46] <Danimal> i thought there was some sort of feedback
[17:48:50] <andypugh> mikunos: You need to make so many decisions about what you will use for slides, actuators, drives etc.
[17:48:50] <tom3p> http://www.winfordeng.com/products/cat_brk.php
[17:49:11] <SWPadnos> mikunos, it's impossible for us to tell you how to go about building a machine, since we don't know what you want to do with it, we don't know your skill level (for mechanical, electrical, or computer things), we don't know your budget, we don't know what tools you have access to, and we don't know what you already own
[17:49:13] <cradek> Danimal: if it's like mine, it has a resolver AND an encoder with one phase missing
[17:49:30] <mikunos> andypugh I would like to create depron and wood planes
[17:49:49] <mikunos> SWPadnos ok depron and wood planes
[17:49:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:50:21] <mikunos> why are u surprised?
[17:50:47] <SWPadnos> I'm not surprised (though I don't know what depron is)
[17:51:04] <andypugh> Thanks chaps. I think for $45 + shipping + customs duty + handling charge the scruffy approach starts to look more attractive.
[17:51:06] <Danimal> cradek, did you use it or did you swap it out for something else
[17:51:12] <mikunos> http://www.baronerosso.net/forum/attachments/aeromodellismo-progettazione-e-costruzione/12938d1142351782-costruire-ala-centinata-depron-dscn0545.jpg
[17:51:24] <cradek> Danimal: I took out both and put in a modern encoder, since I wanted to be able to rigid tap
[17:51:29] <mikunos> SWPadnos that is depron
[17:51:31] <cradek> there is plenty of room in there for an encoder
[17:51:43] <Danimal> thats what i was thinking
[17:51:51] <andypugh> mikunos: Polystyrene?
[17:52:01] <Danimal> did you use the encoder on the turret, or did you replace that too?
[17:52:02] <cradek> Danimal: the encoder that's there (if it's like mine) is a 12v light bulb model, hard to interface to 5v mesa
[17:52:03] <mikunos> andypugh yes it is the same
[17:52:06] <SWPadnos> mikunos, that doesn't tell me much, but I can see that it looks like some sort of plastic
[17:52:10] <tom3p> ok depron is some kinda of coated foam,,, foamcore, used in rc airplanes
[17:52:11] <andypugh> Hot-wire is more normal for polystyrene.
[17:52:28] <mikunos> tom3p esact
[17:52:32] <mikunos> exactly
[17:52:34] <cradek> Danimal: it's not an encoder, it's a bunch of reed switches encoded to give absolute position - I used it as-is
[17:52:38] <SWPadnos> in any case, there are a lot of things you need to decide for yourself, so you can come back and ask more specific questions
[17:53:00] <tom3p> mikunos you want to build a machine or learn to run a machine?
[17:53:07] <Danimal> oh ok i thought my book said encoder, the reed switches would be easier it sounds like
[17:53:13] <mikunos> build a CNC router
[17:53:24] <andypugh> Basic questions are: Servo motor or stepper, belt/chain/rack/leadscrew or ballscrew
[17:53:40] <mikunos> tom3p and then install a driver + emc
[17:54:59] <cradek> andypugh: using something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220308379636
[17:55:01] <andypugh> CNCzone.com forums might be a better place to start than here. This is mainly about EMC software questions rather than machine building . Most of us have some experience and more opinions on the building phase too, of course
[17:55:22] <cradek> andypugh: oh someone else already sent you a link to something similar
[17:55:24] <Danimal> cradek, is there any flexibility with the 7i33, meaning can i use the unused servo channels for something like an analog output for a vfd drive, or a encoder input for the spindle?
[17:55:29] <tom3p> mikunos, some planes are big some are small, the machine must be bigger than the thing built. have you decide the size? and know the speed of travel and rpm for depron... lots of things for you to know even if you buy machine. these thing tell you how to build the machine, not us.
[17:55:57] <cradek> Danimal: yes of course - you have 4 dac outputs and 4 encoder inputs. you can "wire" them to whatever you please in HAL
[17:56:07] <Danimal> oh great
[17:56:18] <Danimal> that saves $$
[17:56:18] <cradek> probably you'll want two encoders for axes, one for spindle, one for jogwheel
[17:56:23] <tom3p> mikunos: in order to build the automatic plane building machine, you need to be some expert
[17:56:29] <Danimal> true
[17:56:41] <cradek> two dacs for axes, one for vfd speed command, one for the disco ball (?)
[17:56:49] <Danimal> haha
[17:56:54] <mikunos> tom3p yes I know. I would like to create plans with 2mt wings
[17:56:56] <Danimal> and 1 for smoke machine
[17:57:02] <cradek> did yours come with the disco ball option?
[17:57:11] <mikunos> have I build a 2 mt of cnc router?
[17:57:31] <Danimal> mine was serial 417, pre disco ball
[17:57:56] <andypugh> Yes, thanks to both of you. Unfortunately I am in the UK, and in a hurry. So I was more looking for standard components that I can get from RS or Farnell. (I can find lots of IDC conectors of the right type, but I was hoping there was a screw-clamp version.)
[17:58:33] <cradek> andypugh: I wish that kind of stuff was cheaper and more plentiful, but it really isn't
[17:58:33] <tom3p> mikunos: when these decisions are finished, you will have some unfinished work, (if you use step motors for example) you will have to connect motors to amplifiers to a pc. at that point we can help you. at that point it is not a plane making machine to us, just a set of motors
[18:00:01] <Danimal> i guess i should start browsing craigslist for an old pc for the lathe
[18:00:27] <andypugh> The Wiki page for the 7i43 has a link to http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=281-1062-ND
[18:00:39] <andypugh> But that doesn't actually look right
[18:01:03] <Danimal> i wonder what i can sell my old stepper motors and drives for
[18:01:18] <Danimal> the nema 43's from my shizuoka
[18:07:44] <Danimal> well it's time for breakfast, thanks for the info cradek
[18:07:46] <Danimal> adios
[18:23:36] <cradek> huh, I think I successfully patched the plastic air oiler bowl on the mill
[18:23:39] <cradek> it was cracked all the way around
[18:24:27] <cradek> I cleaned it with alcohol and smeared super glue on it, then backed it with a piece of .001 brass shim stock around the inside
[18:26:26] <eric_unterhausen> this is a way oiler?
[18:28:38] <cradek> no, air
[18:29:02] <cradek> so the bowl has about 85psi in it
[18:29:31] <eric_unterhausen> what does it deliver the oil to?
[18:29:38] <eric_unterhausen> the part?
[18:29:55] <cradek> no, the air operated soleniods that do various stuff on the tool changer and spindle
[18:30:08] <eric_unterhausen> which mill is it?
[18:30:49] <cradek> the mori vmc
[18:31:33] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg
[18:32:08] <eric_unterhausen> that tool changer must be fun to watch
[18:32:57] <cradek> much funner than changing tools manually!
[18:39:44] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[18:46:04] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[18:46:46] <numen> * numen needs a tool changer, too ^^
[18:48:33] <danielfalck> cradek: that's a nice looking machine now
[19:30:11] <andypugh> nice easy mill conversion in the UK. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Matchmaker-AN-S-Vertical-Turret-milling-machine-CNC_W0QQitemZ130346313916
[19:31:09] <andypugh> £200, 30 mins, no bids
[19:33:06] <eric_unterhausen> andypugh: looks... large
[19:33:42] <andypugh> that's why it still has no bids, or I would have it.
[19:35:05] <eric_unterhausen> I have a big mill, makes life harder
[19:35:14] <dimas> wonder how much it would take to mail it to russia..
[19:36:20] <dimas> how costly that is
[19:37:18] <andypugh> Probably not worth it, surely there are lots of second hand russian machines in Russia?
[19:37:30] <eric_unterhausen> it costs me about $250 to move something from my driveway to my basement
[19:38:50] <eric_unterhausen> my mill cost me $1000, $500 to get it home
[19:40:22] <Poincare> i moved a schimmel piano for half that price to another city
[19:40:51] <eric_unterhausen> does a piano weigh almost 6000 pounds?
[19:41:34] <Nick001> missing comp command dl emc2-dev - loaded ok- now command returns turret.comp:0: License not specified - now what?
[19:43:13] <dimas> andypugh, a lot of equipment just destroed, what is saved is much costly
[19:43:43] <micges> Nick001: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//hal_comp.html#r1_4
[19:43:49] <fenn> eric_unterhausen: is that what you tell the neighbors when they complain about all the crap in the driveway?
[19:43:56] <micges> Nick001: look at licence section
[19:44:21] <eric_unterhausen> fenn, I like driving giant forklifts around, so it's worth the money
[19:45:06] <eric_unterhausen> last year I finally fixed the last rut in the yard,and then the electric company put it back in
[19:45:07] <andypugh> Well, if you fancy driving a giant forklift from Bromsgrove to Russia you have about 15 minutes to say so.....
[19:45:37] <dimas> lol
[19:45:39] <eric_unterhausen> that sounds like fun, would they let me drive it in the chunnel?
[19:47:04] <andypugh> With a big enough forklift, how would they stop you?
[19:48:51] <Nick001> GPL What do I do with it?
[19:54:33] <Nick001> I guess how do I use license "GPL" and where do I put it in a command?
[19:54:56] <eric_unterhausen> andypugh, sorta like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbG9i1oGPA&feature=related
[19:55:50] <micges> Nick001: in header, just like pins
[19:56:13] <Danimal> ugh ladder diagrams suck when you're new to them
[19:57:45] <Poincare> eric_unterhausen: i think it weighs less, but you dont want to take it to the 5th floor on your own
[19:57:47] <toast_> i made a girl cry once because I understood ladder diagrams immediately
[19:58:04] <Danimal> you'd make me cry too and i'm a grown man
[19:58:19] <toast_> we all have our sensitive sides
[19:59:13] <Nick001> This is the first readable line in turret.comp
[19:59:15] <Nick001> ;;
[19:59:16] <Nick001> MODULE_LICENSE("GPL");
[19:59:18] <Nick001> FUNCTION(_) {
[20:01:46] <Danimal> so i have a 24 position turret, and position 1 has a reed switch. obviously i need to use a counter, but i'm a little confused on how to do it. i know i need to home the turret at the start, but should i do it so everytime it passes position 1 it resets the counter, or can i have the counter only go to 24 so it resets automaticaly without a physical switch?
[20:02:44] <micges> Nick001: read again page I've pasted link, in that section there are all answers you are asking
[20:03:15] <Danimal> and would the counter start at 0 or 1? (0-23, or 1-24)?
[20:05:18] <Danimal> this is using classicladder obviously
[20:07:39] <Danimal> anyone?
[20:08:41] <awallin> I would probably write my own comp to deal with toolchange, since I don't know classicladder...
[20:08:46] <awallin> is this a lathe turret?
[20:09:51] <Danimal> mill
[20:10:09] <toast_> i hate homing a huge mill magazine
[20:10:11] <toast_> it takes like 3 minutes
[20:10:13] <Danimal> quickdraw II toolchanger
[20:11:31] <Danimal> true toast_, but having a toolchanger means i dont need to stand at the machine all day
[20:11:37] <toast_> yeah
[20:11:48] <toast_> i'm not dissing it, i'm just saying I hate homing large ones
[20:12:03] <Danimal> yea i hear ya
[20:13:27] <Danimal> i figured i'd just use a momentary push button to home it so i dont need to mess with too much logic
[20:13:32] <awallin> do you have the turret moving already?
[20:13:41] <Danimal> not with emc
[20:14:09] <Danimal> the toolchanger works manually
[20:14:55] <Danimal> i am just starting to learn classicladder so i can get it working with emc
[20:15:28] <awallin> ok, can't help with classicladder, sorry...
[20:16:56] <Danimal> that makes 2 of us
[20:44:33] <andypugh> awallin: Are you there? I have just spotted a spindle motor and driver on eBay, but <4 mins to go. (In Finland)
[20:45:15] <andypugh> (Or is it you selling it?)
[20:51:35] <eric_unterhausen> andypugh, you missed your chance on that mill
[20:51:52] <andypugh> Found a better one anyway:
[20:53:40] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bridgeport-Series-1-CNC-Milling-Machine_W0QQitemZ200408393285
[20:53:50] <andypugh> Complete CNC Bridgeport currently at £250
[20:54:09] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, but it's flipped over on its side
[20:54:35] <andypugh> Probably to aid swarf clearance
[20:54:50] <toast_> and thus the principle behind horizontal mills was discovered.
[20:55:34] <andypugh> (And I won't be bidding on that one either)
[20:56:02] <eric_unterhausen> there was a guy near me that offered me one of those for $750, I was tempted but I have a mill
[20:56:26] <andypugh> I noticed a few people in that eBay section with spoof adverts for HIAB trucks @ 99p. I wonder if they want a trip to Russia?
[20:56:58] <numen> ^^
[21:04:01] <cradek> old stepper machine + "sold as seen" = not worth any more than 250 I bet
[21:05:17] <andypugh> Are those large finned things steppers?
[21:05:20] <cradek> yes
[21:05:55] <andypugh> Ah. I am even less interested then.
[21:06:18] <cradek> this was before chopper drives. they used saturating inductors to control max current. the steppers ran super hot and I understand the whole setup barely worked when new.
[21:06:28] <cradek> also they are famous for constlantly blowing driver transistors.
[21:06:45] <andypugh> I was imagining that it would get a full refit anyway.
[21:07:01] <eric_unterhausen> geckos can work with those steppers
[21:07:03] <cradek> if that means including motors and drives, yeah
[21:07:09] <cradek> eric_unterhausen: only badly
[21:07:14] <eric_unterhausen> yeah
[21:07:21] <eric_unterhausen> and they are nema 42
[21:07:30] <andypugh> And it would almost certainly be better than my current machine as it is.
[21:07:47] <eric_unterhausen> some of those machines did one part over and over
[21:07:50] <cradek> heh, as it is, it's probably only good for holding something down
[21:07:51] <eric_unterhausen> and have massive wear
[21:08:04] <eric_unterhausen> some were never used, and are great
[21:08:33] <cradek> the servo ones are probably worn much worse - since they actually worked day after day
[21:08:57] <andypugh> Yeah, broken machines suffer little wear
[21:09:00] <celeron55> that machine does look quite respectable in a way 8)
[21:09:13] <eric_unterhausen> I think the iron is ok
[21:09:33] <andypugh> Iron is what my current toy lacks.
[21:09:38] <eric_unterhausen> cradek, do you still have your bp?
[21:09:44] <cradek> these model 1s have small saddles so X (underside of table) wears in an arc
[21:09:51] <cradek> eric_unterhausen: yes
[21:10:04] <cradek> eric_unterhausen: I even put it back together - it is working again.
[21:10:20] <eric_unterhausen> I decided not to get a series I because of the travel
[21:10:34] <cradek> 12x18 not enough? or you mean the quill?
[21:10:44] <andypugh> Bed wear is correctable with patience and an angle grinder (and scraper) though.
[21:10:58] <eric_unterhausen> I didn't think the x was enough
[21:11:29] <eric_unterhausen> I thought the cnc version had less travel
[21:11:30] <cradek> eric_unterhausen: I surprisingly never had much trouble with the small travel. My new one is only a tad bigger.
[21:11:50] <cradek> pretty sure they are 12x18 - I know mine (slightly newer servo model) is
[21:12:12] <cradek> I have not personally used one of the old stepper models
[21:12:15] <eric_unterhausen> I remember something like 9x15, but I'm probably wrong
[21:12:23] <cradek> I've only heard people complain about them :-)
[21:12:31] <eric_unterhausen> and your mechs look like the old ones
[21:12:38] <cradek> eric_unterhausen: I'm almost certain you are wrong about 9x15
[21:12:57] <cradek> yes same basic machine I think
[21:12:58] <eric_unterhausen> probably
[21:16:57] <cradek> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8148.html
[21:31:40] <dimas> i have small steppers with 5mm shaft and my screw end is 7mm, what would be suitable coupler for that?
[21:32:10] <cradek> one with 7mm on one end and 5mm on the other
[21:32:22] <cradek> the kind with a little flex are best if the motor is firmly mounted
[21:32:29] <andypugh> cradek: Or the other way round
[21:32:40] <cradek> yes, that would work too
[21:33:54] <dimas> can i choose them with different holes ready?
[21:34:12] <cradek> yes I've done that - check mcmaster
[21:34:22] <dimas> what seller to look from?
[21:34:35] <dimas> ok mcmaster
[21:34:35] <cradek> or if you have a lathe, buying two reamers might be cheaper
[21:34:56] <andypugh> dimas: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4779867
[21:35:16] <dimas> reamer is a new word for me, looking...
[21:35:38] <andypugh> Or, even better, http://ru.rsdelivers.com/product/ruland/pcmr19-6-5-a/clampal-short-coupling-6x5mm-bore-215nm/4779867.aspx
[21:35:59] <cradek> andypugh: he said 7,5
[21:36:10] <andypugh> Yeah, some modification will be needed
[21:36:42] <andypugh> I don't think anyone does a 7x5 off the shelf
[21:36:47] <cradek> ah
[21:37:23] <andypugh> I thought I did well finding a russian-language supplier.
[21:37:24] <cradek> better to bore but 7mm is a bit on the small side for boring
[21:37:59] <cradek> could also turn the screws down to 5mm but that sure seems small
[21:38:06] <andypugh> With a 6mm starter hole drilling would probably work. Though reaming the last bit would be best
[21:38:31] <andypugh> Would you prefer the screw or the motor to break first?
[21:38:33] <dimas> andypugh, second link is great, thanks :)
[21:38:55] <cradek> yeah since it's a flex coupling it doesn't have to be nearly as perfect - you are right about drilling
[21:39:23] <cradek> assuming you don't get out into the screws with that extra mm
[21:39:57] <cradek> andypugh: and the coupler will definitely break first :-)
[21:40:17] <cradek> be sure the couplers are somewhat stronger than the motor stall torque, or they'll just fly apart
[21:40:29] <andypugh> I wouldn't be so sure, you win strength vary quickly with diameter.
[21:41:10] <cradek> I broke two of these on my lathe before I got everything adjusted right
[21:41:26] <cradek> they are between the ballscrew and tach/resolver module
[21:41:40] <cradek> and of course the axis runs away as soon as it breaks...
[21:43:23] <dimas> cradek, what is the right link to mcmaster?
[21:48:29] <dimas> ok, reamers are recognized..
[21:48:31] <andypugh> Do I need to install HostMot2 or is it already there?
[21:48:34] <andypugh> hm2_7i43: Unknown symbol hm2_register
[21:48:34] <andypugh> hm2_7i43: Unknown symbol hm2_unregister
[21:48:34] <andypugh> RTAI[math]: unloaded.
[21:55:21] <dimas> mcmaster looks like that - http://www.mcmaster.com/, strange it was not found with my previous search..
[22:02:45] <andypugh> Sorry to bother you all again, but is there a way to unload rtai_hal? rmmod says that it is in use.
[22:03:05] <andypugh> But I can't start emc because it is already loaded...
[22:12:40] <Jymmm> New machining method.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbD0I1FuJKA&NR=1
[22:18:53] <andypugh> If you ever want huge current and low voltage you can do it by deliberately ignoring the instructions on toroidal transformers and deliberately putting a shorted turn through the middle. The heat-treatment technician at Leeds Uni had used that technique to use a 3" diameter thin-wall stainless steel tube as a resistive heating element.
[22:40:28] <andypugh> Bah! I wish restart really did on my CNC machine, it would save me a fair bit of trudging round the block in the rain.
[22:42:17] <L84Supper> andypugh : are you working on the "teleoperated" version of EMC?
[22:43:18] <andypugh> Sort-of
[22:43:50] <andypugh> I am messing with config files with VNC
[22:44:38] <andypugh> The problem is that when the hal file fails the rtai modules sometimes get in a tangle, and so I need to restart.
[22:45:34] <L84Supper> I'm doing similar here since I have EMC+Linux for motion on one board and XP on another for some other operations with one display for all
[22:46:12] <andypugh> But it looks like I am nearly there, it has made its way all the way through the new Hal file.
[22:46:56] <L84Supper> I noticed the same here working with HAL
[22:47:27] <L84Supper> I hope to have HAL sorted out over the next few weeks
[22:47:55] <andypugh> I hope to have it sorted out in the next few minutes
[22:49:07] <andypugh> Though I am struggling with the # key, as there isn't one on my Mac keyboard, (alt-3 is the combination but that doesn't work) so I am having to copy and paste them in with VNC
[22:53:16] <L84Supper> it looks like I have to write a HAL module to support digital IO and ADC/DAC realtime synced/triggered by position
[22:53:45] <L84Supper> since the gcodes aren't flexible enough
[22:55:00] <toast_> the scope of gcode is like, really specific
[22:56:38] <L84Supper> M62/63 would be nice if you didn't have to have a move right after in order to trigger them
[23:00:23] <L84Supper> I can also see applications that could use proportional or differential output based on position changes, but maybe that's getting too far from CNC and into the realm of mechanical control like HVAC
[23:07:46] <andypugh> L84Supper: I am not clear on what you mean there , but it sounds like the sort of thing that the PID module already does?
[23:20:46] <ries_> what software does the open source community usually use to create g-code ?
[23:20:55] <L84Supper> andypugh: yes, similar
[23:21:00] <eric_unterhausen> vi
[23:21:24] <andypugh> I use Gedit, as I am not quite so hardcore
[23:21:31] <numen> ries_ inventorcam
[23:21:50] <andypugh> InventorCAM?
[23:22:06] <numen> yes
[23:22:07] <andypugh> Is that related to Autodesk Inventor?
[23:22:29] <numen> its solidcam for autodesk inventor
[23:22:45] <L84Supper> andypugh: only not for controlling a motor, not sure of all the details and limitations on its current state
[23:23:37] <ries_> numen: but, is it free or cheap?
[23:24:16] <numen> ries_ its not free
[23:24:23] <numen> i dont know how much it cost
[23:24:44] <ries_> ic ic...
[23:25:35] <numen> i have it at work
[23:26:39] <ries_> Ahhh..we used to use pro engineer at work... but I don't work there anymore (I still have they copy though ;) )
[23:27:29] <numen> ive an student version of inventor ^^
[23:28:12] <ries_> that helps...
[23:29:32] <toast_> i HATE inventor
[23:29:34] <numen> im student
[23:29:38] <toast_> haaaate
[23:29:44] <numen> toast_ why?
[23:30:11] <toast_> I don't want to rag on it if you like it, I just hate it and how it operates compared to the other packages I've used.
[23:30:51] <numen> what do you use?
[23:30:51] <andypugh> Odd, I love Inventor compared to the other similar packages I have tried.
[23:31:12] <alex_joni> * alex_joni pets his alibre
[23:32:17] <numen> i tried pro/e wildfire4 but dont like it ^^
[23:32:29] <andypugh> I tried Alibre, but it seemed willfully imprecise
[23:33:18] <andypugh> (Actually, I think I am confusing it with Ashlar Vellum)
[23:33:34] <andypugh> Alibre was the one that used to be free, but stopped being?
[23:34:22] <toast_> nots, I use solidworks at work
[23:34:30] <toast_> *numen
[23:34:45] <toast_> i have used pro/e and it is wildly more powerful than either
[23:34:48] <toast_> of the other two
[23:35:05] <tom3p> try medusa4 , google CAD Schroer, i installed it but havent had time to look into it yet
[23:35:40] <andypugh> I used an old version of Alibre, but it couldn't handle the kinematics of the 3d model I built, whereas Inventor did
[23:35:45] <alex_joni> andypugh: they still have a free version, though you need to register to get the download link
[23:36:05] <alex_joni> same goes for Alibre CAM Xpress I think
[23:36:18] <tom3p> also gCAD gCNCcam APT360 HeeksCAD HeeksCNC
[23:36:26] <alex_joni> v12 is pretty nice
[23:36:36] <andypugh> I can use the company Inventor license at home. Though what I really want is a Mac-compatible 3D CAD system
[23:37:00] <alex_joni> MAC-CAM ? :P
[23:37:20] <numen> andypugh what a cam solution do you use?
[23:37:29] <andypugh> TexTedit...
[23:37:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed.. night all
[23:37:59] <numen> and for 3d parts?
[23:38:02] <ries_> andypugh: I feel the same... I use wildfire 4 in Parallels now :s
[23:38:12] <tom3p> gnite alex
[23:38:32] <andypugh> I haven't done any true 3D yet, so hand-written G-code is fine.
[23:40:25] <numen> takes to much time ^^
[23:41:34] <andypugh> So far I have only made parts for the machine, and they can be simple. I expect I will want a more complete solution in time.
[23:44:46] <andypugh> Hmm, Sketchup looks promising...
[23:50:40] <numen> time for midnight pizza ^^