#emc | Logs for 2009-11-26

[00:16:16] <ybit_> ybit_ is now known as ybit
[00:22:12] <andypugh> byde
[00:56:32] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:57:00] <Jymmm> ries: iirc, most laptops will go the safe route, fan on 100% when ACPI is disabled. Kinda has to or it burn up stuff. disable ACPI/APM in BIOS and restart the laptop at a grub menu (no power mgmt there) and listen foe the fan in high or not.
[01:57:26] <eric_unterhause1> my desktop does that
[01:57:28] <eric_unterhause1> really annoying
[01:57:34] <ries> Jymmm: working on that as I type
[01:57:50] <ries> there was a mention about nvidia drivers.. and I am checking this out
[01:58:02] <ries> On debian I knew how to change it
[01:58:15] <ries> but on Ubuntu I am lost on how to change X11 graphic drivers :s
[01:59:03] <Jymmm> dont ask me, if it doesn't work out of the box, say fsck it =)
[01:59:29] <Jymmm> other than VGA=791 nosplash verbose
[02:00:04] <ries> good call... let me try that (assuming it's a kernel option)
[02:00:06] <Jymmm> and I ALWAYS forget to disable the shutdown splashscreen
[02:00:23] <Jymmm> ries: No, thst's in grub menu config
[02:00:35] <Jymmm> ries: nothing todo with X
[02:01:36] <ries> Jymmm: but I need to add that on the kernel line... right?
[02:02:40] <Jymmm> I add a new section to menu.config myself
[02:02:58] <ries> trying that now...
[02:06:44] <ries> I hope to get this coumputer running (DELL Latitude) because it's nice to hear that it will make more noise (fans) then the spindle I am planning to buy :D
[03:19:33] <cradek> plumbing flux is conductive
[03:19:48] <eric_unterhause1> that sounds like hard earned information
[03:19:58] <cradek> yeah, thought I'd share it with everyone
[03:20:44] <eric_unterhause1> maybe it's not and the little electrons decided to have a jailbreak
[03:26:43] <ds3> has anyone tried running multiple machines at once on a single PC with multiple parallel ports?
[03:27:13] <cradek> currently you can't run emc twice at the same time
[03:27:20] <ds3> Oh
[03:27:36] <ds3> can I switch machines w/o rebooting?
[03:27:41] <cradek> sure
[03:27:51] <cradek> just run a different config
[03:28:08] <ds3> so the kernel half won't get confused?
[03:28:26] <cradek> no, it all cleans up and unloads when you exit emc
[03:28:55] <ds3> is it recommended to do that?
[03:29:13] <ds3> much rather have more tools in the shop then more PCs
[03:43:47] <ds3> Ayieeeeeeee
[03:55:24] <ries> anybody happen to know how I can start Ubuntu in text only mode?
[03:55:35] <ries> the NVIDIA drivers I want to try needs text mode only install
[03:55:46] <ries> runlevel1 is problamatic according to the installer :s
[04:10:56] <L84Supper> hold on for the answer
[04:11:35] <L84Supper> we used to run into this with that driver
[04:12:27] <L84Supper> there are a few different ways to boot into text ....
[04:16:31] <Neo_The_User> ries: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1097993&page=2
[04:16:58] <Neo_The_User> page 1
[04:45:01] <Neo_The_User> you can also install the nvidia drivers in recovery mode
[04:49:12] <Neo_The_User> although the closed nvidia drivers have problem with latency. i suggest you use the nouveau drivers with KMS (kernel mode setting) enabled as it pretty fast as well and doesnt have problems with EMC.
[06:17:50] <rsp2k> Where should zero for the Z axis be, top of the workpiece, or top of the table?
[06:18:26] <MattyMatt> top of the table seems right to me
[06:19:11] <rsp2k> so, there should never be negative Z coordinates?
[06:20:11] <MattyMatt> not in an absolute space, but you often work with local co-ords from an arbitrary origin
[06:20:41] <MattyMatt> e.g. you might set your tool to the surface of the work and zero the Z there
[06:21:03] <rsp2k> should machine home be somewhere in the middle of the table, or in the corner?
[06:21:56] <eric_mill> that doesn't really matter
[06:22:06] <MattyMatt> I don't think it matters, unless you attach scales to your table
[06:22:23] <eric_mill> it's nice to have it in the corner so it knows which way to go to go home
[06:22:55] <rsp2k> do you just jog the spindle to the corner of the workpiece and hit play?
[06:23:21] <eric_mill> no home switches?
[06:23:45] <rsp2k> I do have them, but my parallel port inputs aren't working.
[06:23:55] <eric_mill> soft home then
[06:24:01] <MrSunshine> wrong settings in bios rsp2k ?
[06:24:08] <MrSunshine> for the parport
[06:24:33] <rsp2k> tried them all, then realized the off-mobo connector only has enough wires for outputs
[06:24:37] <rsp2k> doh!
[06:25:02] <MrSunshine> the cable or the connector ?
[06:25:04] <MrSunshine> on the mobo
[06:25:10] <rsp2k> both.
[06:25:14] <MrSunshine> oh ?
[06:25:21] <MrSunshine> seems strange if the mobo wouldnt have the actual inputs :P
[06:27:35] <rsp2k> I was looking at the serial port :)
[06:29:09] <rsp2k> I tried all 4 BIOS settings, outputs always work, I just can't get any inputs to change state (monitoring with show hal conf)
[06:30:01] <rsp2k> I tried using a jumper wire straight off the breakout board to eliminate external wiring and switches
[07:21:00] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[07:26:07] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[07:33:10] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[08:49:24] <numen> hi
[09:36:54] <Valen> SWPadnos you around?
[11:52:06] <alex_joni> Valen: try again in a couple hours
[11:52:09] <alex_joni> night over there atm
[11:52:23] <Valen> ahh
[11:52:38] <Valen> trying to see a nice way to compensate for gravity on my Z
[11:53:17] <Jymmm> Valen: It's called a counterweight
[11:53:31] <Valen> uh huh
[11:53:46] <Valen> and all the machines that run without counterweights have magic
[11:53:57] <Jymmm> Valen: steppers?
[11:54:03] <Valen> servo
[11:54:10] <Valen> plenty of power
[11:54:19] <Valen> runs up and down at 1500mm/minute without a problem
[11:54:36] <Valen> and plenty of room to spare
[11:54:40] <Valen> its just the ferror is +ve in one direction and -ve in the other
[12:04:11] <crudhog> * crudhog slaps crudhog around with a small 50lb Unix Manual
[12:04:20] <crudhog> * crudhog slaps crudhog around with a small 50lb Unix Manual
[12:04:24] <crudhog> * crudhog slaps crudhog around with a small 50lb Unix Manual
[12:06:45] <jthornton> morning alex_joni
[12:07:41] <numen> hi alex_joni
[12:23:49] <ries> L84Supper: I found a good way to put into text, I simply removed from runlevel 3 GDM, then first I boot into rescue, then init 3 brings me to runlevel 3
[12:30:29] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[12:32:35] <jt-dev> jt-dev is now known as jt_dev
[12:34:13] <jt_dev> jt_dev is now known as jt-dev
[12:37:47] <Guest800> hello, i need to know if emc2 applies to my project, someone can help me ?
[12:42:03] <alex_joni> if you say what it's about, then maybe someone can help you
[12:42:10] <jthornton> we won't know until you ask the question
[12:43:47] <Guest800> ok, thank's, i need to control a 2D cnc machine at 10 m/ss acceleration and 1m/s speed, it is posible ?
[12:44:49] <MrSunshine> 1m/s? :P
[12:45:11] <MrSunshine> well maybe if its springloaded with a big spring and you just release the table and let it fly ;P
[12:45:15] <Guest800> yes, plotting
[12:45:39] <jthornton> servos?
[12:45:54] <MrSunshine> well 1m/s sounds like a bit much ? :)
[12:46:03] <Guest800> steppers
[12:46:15] <Guest800> yes i know
[12:46:21] <Jymmm> Guest800: ink?
[12:46:32] <Guest800> is standard in leather cutting machines
[12:46:39] <ries> * ries is going to give up running emc2 on this laptop... waiting for a new computer
[12:46:50] <jthornton> EMC can drive steppers to their limit with no problem
[12:47:10] <Jymmm> Guest800: Is the tool ink or a drop knife?
[12:47:16] <jthornton> can your hardware go 1 m/s?
[12:47:18] <MrSunshine> Guest800, well if you have a driver that can take enough voltage so motors wont stall out ? :)
[12:47:27] <MrSunshine> at speeds
[12:47:31] <Guest800> thank's jthornton, i think you will see me again soon
[12:47:44] <Guest800> oscilatoy knife
[12:48:03] <Jymmm> Guest800: how think is the leather?
[12:48:05] <Jymmm> thick
[12:48:37] <Guest800> at 3 mm, or textile
[12:48:50] <Jymmm> Guest800: Good luck with that.
[12:49:26] <jthornton> that's 2340 inches a minute
[12:49:47] <Guest800> maximum, in rect lines
[12:49:58] <Guest800> but is not real medium speed
[12:50:04] <Jymmm> Guest800: Have you seen a machine do what you want before?
[12:50:15] <Jymmm> at these speeds
[12:50:37] <Guest800> yes, in market there are machines of several brands
[12:50:54] <Jymmm> Guest800: at 1m/s ?
[12:51:40] <Guest800> real cut speed could me 30% of that but positioning with up tool must be very fast
[12:53:28] <Guest800> thank's all
[12:53:34] <jthornton> good luck
[13:00:52] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[13:21:35] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[16:16:23] <tom3p> i wonder how small a radius those leather cutting machines can handle? i guess the masses are extremely low.
[16:20:20] <tarzan> pneumatic actuators may do the task
[16:24:03] <tom3p> heck i found 72 ips , autometrix, and their multiple head machine seem to handle 'tool offset' really fast
[16:27:24] <tom3p> ah, i see fishtails on one mfctr, where he turns a corner too fast and gets a loop like a fish tail. well these machines are damn fast.
[16:34:29] <tom3p> http://www.novamaxinternational.com/ nice swiss machines, drag knife (tangential knife)
[16:36:35] <tarzan> very small run it makes easier to move head
[16:36:44] <tom3p> some use laser, knife & ultrasonics all in 1 machine with multiple heads, also rotary punches for notching. at 72 ips
[16:37:13] <tom3p> hese cut sail patterns so are huge, i do see lo Z (just pen up/down sort of stuff )
[16:37:42] <tom3p> and they run HPGL ( some ), not gcode
[16:38:19] <tom3p> i spose ultrasonics is binding/edging
[16:38:46] <tom3p> wow max cutting speed 1500mm/sec
[16:38:47] <tarzan> pneumatic may provide faster movement but machine should be heavier
[16:39:25] <tarzan> those maybe use toothed belt
[16:43:17] <tom3p> still havent seen driving mechanisms, just the claims of great speed.
[16:43:18] <tom3p> overall looks say they are bridge style, short Z stroke, Zmoves along long Y axis which is aluminum extrusion box beam, and X is the long travel stationary bed traverse by the ZY bridge http://www.bwcutters.com/mastercut/mastercut-range-2.html
[16:50:07] <tarzan> cost?
[16:50:39] <tom3p> lots i imagine, i am old school, and swiss means $$$$
[16:53:45] <eric_unterhause1> I'm guessing that something that high speed has to be servomotor
[17:02:00] <tom3p> i'm quite impressed with the diy attempts at same technology http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De4BwjVnqKc
[17:25:45] <jt-plasma> robh: hi
[17:25:59] <Jymmm> HAPPY EASTER!!!
[17:29:46] <Jymmm> jt-plasma: Dude, where's our smoked turkey!!!
[17:29:56] <jt-plasma> on the counter
[17:30:05] <jt-plasma> waiting for the Big Easy
[17:30:43] <Jymmm> How many did you smoke?
[17:31:06] <jt-plasma> I smoked jerky today, the turkey is going in the Big Easy
[17:31:17] <jt-plasma> brb
[17:31:40] <Jymmm> jt-plasma: What type of jerky?
[17:39:44] <tarzan> Jymmm, is easter the same as thanksgiving?
[17:40:13] <Jymmm> what's thanksgiving?
[17:45:40] <roh> .c0
[17:45:47] <roh> oops
[18:12:25] <Jymmm> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/11/26/fl.orphan.squirrel.new.baynews9
[18:20:57] <Guest346> hello
[18:21:06] <Guest346> please i have one doubt
[18:21:17] <micges_work> ask
[18:21:27] <Guest346> how make spindle in emc
[18:21:28] <Guest346> ?
[18:21:47] <Guest346> how control it?
[18:22:10] <alex_joni> depends on your hardware
[18:22:16] <alex_joni> either through a DAC
[18:22:20] <alex_joni> or serial control
[18:22:25] <alex_joni> or pwm over parport
[18:22:29] <alex_joni> or on/off
[18:22:31] <alex_joni> or ...
[18:22:42] <Guest346> please one time
[18:22:54] <Guest346> i need a driver for control this?
[18:23:10] <Guest346> if exemple
[18:24:39] <Guest346> variador of frequenc
[18:25:22] <Guest346> how control a frequency variator?
[18:25:36] <Guest346> i need a drive?
[18:28:20] <Guest346> heloo
[18:28:34] <jt-plasma> hi
[18:28:35] <tom3p> Guest346: emc can output a variable frequency ( the word is PWM ) some hardware is needed to interface the pc output to your spindle drive
[18:28:51] <Guest346> ok
[18:28:55] <Guest346> thanks
[18:29:09] <Guest346> how find this hardware?
[18:29:29] <robh> jt-plasma, Hi sorry was away from PC
[18:29:56] <robh> i have some info for you
[18:30:05] <micges_work> Guest346: but if you have Varable Frequency Driver you must only control on/off by emc
[18:30:34] <tom3p> Guest346: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[18:30:43] <jt-plasma> hi robh I just got back myself
[18:31:08] <robh> good timing for us both then
[18:31:18] <Guest346> i dont know this driver
[18:31:28] <Guest346> i see the link
[18:35:33] <tom3p> Guest346: an example ( there are many solutions ) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Analog_Spindle_Speed_Control
[18:39:19] <Guest346> ok very thanks
[18:40:07] <Guest346> for this i need this driver Mesa Electronics M5i20/7i33?
[18:44:21] <Guest346> on this in parport?
[19:24:11] <tom3p> Guest346, for that example, a mesa 5i20 card and a 7i33 interface are used ( emc outputs control commands to 5i20 to create PWM and the resulting PWM is translated to analog 0-10V by the 7i33)
[19:28:06] <celeron55> an analog voltage of 0-10V could also fairly easily be made with amplifying the 0-5V of one parallel port pin to 0-10V and filtering it to a DC voltage level with a lowpass filter
[19:28:14] <celeron55> more importantly. very cheaply
[19:28:31] <celeron55> by outputting a pwm to that pin
[19:29:09] <celeron55> with 0%-100% meaning 0-10V then
[19:33:53] <Guest630> please the mesa m5i20 this it: http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/5i20ds.pdf
[19:33:57] <Guest630> ?
[19:35:20] <L84Supper> Guest630: yes, that is the PCI version of the FPGA card
[19:35:35] <tom3p> Guest630: yes, that is one of the 2 devices used in the method described
[19:36:00] <tom3p> the other http://mesanet.com/pdf/motion/7i33man.pdf
[19:38:05] <Guest630> i nedd 2 devices?
[19:39:00] <L84Supper> guest630: the m5i20 only has PWM output if you want +/- 10V you need the 7i33 to convert the PWM to analog
[19:39:29] <Guest630> ok
[19:39:40] <Guest630> i dont speak inglesh very whell
[19:39:55] <Guest630> you can speaks for me?
[19:40:02] <L84Supper> no problem, many Americans have the same problem :)
[19:40:15] <Guest630> hahahaha
[19:40:19] <tom3p> re: tangential cutting, the 2nd way AGie wedm's tapered ( moved something normal to a path ) was the AGieconic.
[19:40:26] <tom3p> a separate nc that tapped into the xy steps and calculated how to turn a rotary cam to lean the upper wire guide perp to the path ( according to G41/42, at the 'radius' defined by cam adjustment).
[19:40:26] <tom3p> this was an XYC machine in effect, with C slave dto xy trajectory. i bet hal could create the tangency motion for such a rotary.
[19:40:34] <Guest630> ok
[19:40:46] <tom3p> Guest630: yes 2 devices in that solution
[19:41:05] <Guest630> hava a schem to on this?
[19:41:56] <tom3p> Guest346: just this "an example ( there are many solutions ) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Analog_Spindle_Speed_Control "
[19:42:14] <tom3p> i do not have a spindle control, just a switch :)
[19:42:24] <Guest630> and [Digi Speed GX interface]
[19:42:30] <Guest630> ?
[19:42:52] <tom3p> Guest630: no, the Digi Speed is a special case, it does not affect you
[19:43:01] <tom3p> e/a/??
[19:43:09] <tom3p> e
[19:43:09] <Guest630> ?
[19:43:13] <Guest630> e?
[19:43:25] <tom3p> i am not so good at english either :)
[19:43:36] <Guest630> a sory
[19:43:50] <Guest630> how you live?
[19:44:00] <tom3p> Chicago ! :)
[19:44:10] <Guest630> I from Brazil
[19:44:32] <tom3p> nice
[19:45:53] <Guest630> in the page no have a schema for on
[19:46:13] <tom3p> some people in Brazil use emc, look up this info "FISL will be held in Porto Alegre - Brazil."
[19:46:25] <Guest630> yes
[19:46:31] <Guest630> i Gaucho
[19:46:31] <tom3p> Guest630: no schematic as picture, just words about connections
[19:46:45] <tom3p> i Cowboy ( same same )
[19:46:58] <Guest630> i natarual for porto alegre
[19:47:18] <Guest630> in brazil i for afist person a use emc
[19:47:50] <Guest630> you a cowboy?
[19:48:03] <Guest630> BAH TRI LEGAL TCHE
[19:48:18] <Guest630> undesrtand?
[19:48:48] <tom3p> Filipi Vianna IDÉIA/PUCRS - Instituto de Pesquisa e Desenvolvimento 3320-3500 ramal: 7794 http://www.pucrs.br/ideia
[19:49:18] <tom3p> Guest630: no, sorry
[19:49:23] <Guest630> ok
[19:49:37] <tom3p> the above person uses emc
[19:50:04] <Guest630> yes
[19:50:14] <Guest630> i start to use in 2004
[19:50:32] <tom3p> ! great
[19:50:33] <Guest630> i speak very with a alex joni
[19:51:04] <tom3p> alex is still here and very good person
[19:51:16] <Jymmm> eh
[19:51:53] <Guest630> yes
[19:52:09] <Guest630> help me any
[19:53:44] <tarzan> spanish?
[19:53:52] <Guest630> ablo
[19:54:02] <tarzan> dispara
[19:54:07] <Guest630> ok
[19:54:12] <Guest630> buenas tardes
[19:54:29] <tarzan> ya pregunta...
[19:54:45] <Guest630> mi amigo ai en riba ai me ajudado
[19:54:47] <Guest630> ...
[19:55:13] <Guest630> fazer uno controle de la rpm del mi spindle
[19:55:29] <tarzan> usando emc?
[19:55:33] <Guest630> si si
[19:55:57] <Guest630> e la mostrada lo seguinte sitio:
[19:56:11] <Guest630> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Analog_Spindle_Speed_Control
[19:56:42] <Guest630> neste sitio hai pieças de la empresa mesa
[19:57:13] <Guest630> tu sabes como se liga estas cosas en lo emc?
[19:57:56] <tarzan> tienes ya todo conectado?
[19:58:23] <Guest630> no no
[19:58:34] <tom3p> uhh... it uses HAL and the schematic is on that page ( the 'scheamtic' is words for HAL )
[19:58:57] <Guest630> estoy a aprender esto para adquirir los componentes
[19:59:27] <Guest630> pelo que entendo uno se liga em la PCI del PC
[19:59:55] <tarzan> se ven un poco caros dejame preguntar por algo mas barato, te parece?
[20:00:25] <celeron55> here's a cheap suggestion: http://celer.oni.biz/~celeron55/random/2009-11/lpt010v.png
[20:01:43] <tarzan> celeron55, is it for a servo, stepper drive ?
[20:02:04] <Guest630> esta sujestao faz el spindle funcinar por el software?
[20:02:06] <celeron55> it is for making a 0-10V control voltage for a spindle speed control
[20:02:43] <Guest630> for exemple:
[20:02:48] <Guest630> s1000
[20:02:59] <tarzan> Guest630, no el spindle necesita un servo motor o stepper
[20:03:28] <Guest630> jo desejo a usar uno motor normal
[20:03:45] <Guest630> ligado a uno variador de frequencia
[20:03:56] <Guest630> dela weg
[20:04:00] <tarzan> Guest630, fresado o torneado?
[20:04:43] <Guest630> fresado
[20:05:25] <tarzan> Guest630, spindle es el cortador de la fresa?
[20:05:51] <tarzan> Guest630, o un eje de coordenada?
[20:06:40] <Guest630> cortador de la fresa
[20:07:34] <tarzan> solo quieres saber como se controla su velocidad y como controla desde el pci?
[20:07:46] <Guest630> si si
[20:07:59] <tarzan> ok voy a preguntar
[20:08:20] <Guest630> muchas gracias
[20:08:35] <Guest630> jo a lido la pagina
[20:08:51] <Guest630> e jo a entendido o que ai escrito
[20:09:06] <Guest630> lo metodo em la pagina funcona?
[20:09:20] <Guest630> esta pagina
[20:09:21] <Guest630> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Analog_Spindle_Speed_Control
[20:11:10] <tarzan> Guest630, no lo e probado pero parece cara las tarjetas
[20:11:32] <Guest630> uno pouco
[20:11:42] <Guest630> ai otro metodo?
[20:12:09] <tarzan> celeron55, any other way or schematic?
[20:13:05] <Guest630> la m5i20 u$ 300
[20:13:51] <Guest630> la 7i33 u$ 70
[20:16:41] <tarzan> question for all : sorry he wanna know how to control a spindle speed from emc, is there any schematic for this?
[20:17:51] <tarzan> it is meant for a flying cutter on a small milling task
[20:22:22] <celeron55> i don't know anything but that that small circuit would do just fine in most situations of spindle speed control :P
[20:23:31] <celeron55> but of course that's not a "pro" solution in any way
[20:24:51] <tarzan> what is 7810?
[20:25:03] <celeron55> a 10V voltage regulator
[20:26:37] <tarzan> output seems to be for a small motor, what if a dremel is used?
[20:27:29] <celeron55> umm... it's not for any motor
[20:28:30] <celeron55> it just makes a voltage of 0-10VDC with very little current supplying capability, which i thought was needed
[20:28:54] <tarzan> controls an axis?
[20:30:10] <tom3p> tarzan: i tried to show him one implementation, i dont think he's gonna find a lot of ways. he just can start there. scroll back to see all the links, and you been around long enuf to know theres no such thing as a 'full list'
[20:30:49] <celeron55> anything that takes 0-10V of lazily responding [4~control voltage
[20:31:48] <tom3p> celeron55: he 'wanted' 0-10V for control of spindle rpm ( he's looking at control solutions )
[20:32:58] <tarzan> yes but 10v is not common on milling motors
[20:33:51] <celeron55> well, the same circuit goes with little changes for any analog control voltages, if you want to do it cheaply
[20:34:02] <archivist_attic> tarzan, its normal for the drive controller
[20:34:36] <celeron55> though i guess stuff that takes analog voltages for control are so expensive you can easily buy all that 7i33 stuff etc for doing it
[20:35:01] <celeron55> am i right? :P
[20:36:40] <tarzan> yes ac motor control is expensive
[20:41:33] <tom3p> tarzan: +-10V and 0-10V are very common, they have been superceded by controls that directly take digital velocity, but you cant chuck a brick in a USA industrial park w/o hitting a bunch of 10V analog controls.
[20:42:04] <tom3p> its 10V >>>>control<<<
[20:43:27] <tom3p> and Guest630 >can< use the peter hohman digi-speed if he wants to, he still needs something like the mesa 5i20 or some code to a parport.
[20:44:25] <tom3p> its hard/impossible/not a good idea to tell him how to implement it. just suggest and show resources
[20:45:59] <tarzan> i see http://www.homanndesigns.com/
[20:50:36] <tom3p> it looks like he could use parport OR mesa to the hoh,man digi-speed to a an Automation Direct GS2 vfd.
[20:51:17] <tom3p> or a UHU or... many many ways but no 'schematic', its DIY
[20:54:24] <tom3p> he could start with a generic schematic for the vfd... http://www.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/gs2m/ch2.pdf
[21:05:27] <tarzan> homann board is designed for sherline type motors http://www.sherline.com/33050pg.htm
[21:06:24] <tarzan> what if a 120 vac dremel is being used?
[21:07:54] <dimas> tom3p, has not UHU published schematics?
[21:09:07] <MattyMatt> stepper + variac = reliable speed changer
[21:10:23] <tom3p> dimas: yes, schematics of the UHU but not of how to connect to EMC
[21:11:28] <tom3p> tarzan: homann controls more than sherline, also asian mill drills, also automation dorect gs2,...
[21:11:36] <MattyMatt> an AC dremel will never reverse, unless it is really DC inside
[21:13:06] <MattyMatt> you'd need to rewire it between the commutators and the coils I think, so you'd need a dual pole relay attached to the rotor that can handle 36krpm
[21:15:25] <dimas> tom3p, thanks for clarifying
[21:15:39] <tom3p> np, do you use UHU ?
[21:16:24] <celeron55> i have a cheap dremel copy that uses a series would dc motor
[21:16:29] <celeron55> 120vac
[21:17:53] <celeron55> i think it can be reversed by installing relays in it to reverse the current direction on the rotor or stator
[21:18:01] <dimas> tom3p, of course not, but seen links to it as a servo drive example
[21:18:32] <tom3p> dimas, the internet has hacks for a tiny xy slide using old cdroms, i thought it might be used for a wedm uv head ( not very strong, but cnc and cheap ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STkjY-KBqgI
[21:21:16] <celeron55> that's quite easy to do as they're just basic bipolar steppers
[21:21:55] <tom3p> yes, i thought it was an interesting cheap way to get the mechanism.
[21:22:14] <celeron55> i wonder how precise you can get it that way
[21:22:28] <celeron55> they're probably fairly precise with the original light load on them
[21:22:29] <tom3p> dunno, a cd rom tack is not sloppy
[21:22:46] <celeron55> but what about when you put another drive mechanism on it
[21:23:03] <dimas> have not seen steppers in cdroms
[21:23:28] <tom3p> happy thanksgiving! found this " Turkey language pcb driller Pic 16f877 opensource EDU project "
[21:23:28] <tom3p> http://ogrenci.hacettepe.edu.tr/~b0164043/maximus/index.htm
[21:23:43] <dimas> tom3p, anything besides youtube about that?
[21:24:35] <celeron55> dimas: no? i just took one i broke apart one day and it has
[21:24:58] <celeron55> and it's the cheapest newish LG you see everywhere
[21:25:08] <tom3p> dimas: still looking, the original links are broken, but maybe similar MAKE or HackADay inforamtion might be used. not sure yet ( and i pulled 2 1x cdroms out of the junk pile to look at :)
[21:26:01] <dimas> celeron55, ok, may be i need to destroy more.. :)
[21:27:29] <celeron55> this seems to have some backlash if you put any load on it because of a fragile connection to the screw
[21:30:40] <celeron55> here's a stupid gif showing a very similar one: http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Cd-rom-drive-reading-head-movement.gif
[21:30:52] <celeron55> some of the older drives do have dc motors
[21:31:05] <celeron55> that way http://www.ixbt.com/optical/nec3500/nec3500-mech.jpg
[21:31:23] <celeron55> hmm... that looks fairly new, though
[21:31:33] <celeron55> maybe they're still both used
[21:32:07] <tom3p> another vid, clearer... http://www.youtube.com/user/sparktronics i think its not worth looking more, better to hack more
[21:33:08] <tarzan> do a cd motor may be good to do axis movement?
[21:33:32] <celeron55> i think you can get the axis position data from reading the cd rom
[21:33:42] <celeron55> so it's not necessary to have the information in the drive system itself
[21:34:05] <tom3p> http://news.jeelabs.org/2009/08/20/cd-drive-as-xy-table/
[21:34:12] <celeron55> you can just jog the dc motor a bit when you have to move a bit to a direction
[21:34:24] <celeron55> the read head anyway has the magnetic fine positioning system
[21:35:01] <dimas> mine all was with dc's
[21:35:47] <dimas> should i attach openservo to them? :)
[21:39:28] <awallin> does mesa electronics have a distributor in europe?
[21:41:25] <tom3p> awallin: i think not, there was some talk about how much startup cost would be
[21:41:42] <tom3p> but idont know that mesa even wants such
[21:43:02] <awallin> ok
[21:43:12] <celeron55> dimas: that could be done with adding a slide potentiometer to it also :P
[21:43:14] <awallin> anyone have a m5i20 for sale?
[21:45:57] <dimas> celeron55, :) but servo somehow controls position where potentiometer would not?
[21:46:39] <celeron55> umm what?
[21:47:19] <celeron55> openservo is designed for an rc servo which have a dc motor and a potentiometer coupled to the output
[21:47:28] <celeron55> has*
[21:51:24] <dimas> yes but magnetic encoder is also tested, of cource it's not for cnc
[22:00:05] <tarzan> optical encoder?
[22:02:08] <dimas> let me find
[22:08:44] <dimas> http://openservo.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=940&highlight=magnetic+encoder
[22:12:20] <dimas> http://www.openservo.com/ConstructionTutorial_MG995_open-encoder - wiki page
[22:12:48] <dimas> the chip is AS5046
[22:15:48] <dimas> http://www.austriamicrosystems.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Rotary-Encoders/AS5046
[22:21:37] <celeron55> not precise but durable
[22:21:42] <celeron55> indeed
[22:23:38] <dimas> celeron55, could you show it with numbers? how much is precise?
[22:27:11] <celeron55> i don't know
[22:28:16] <awallin> there was one with 14-bit also
[22:29:44] <awallin> MLX90316
[22:30:17] <tom3p> i think that an rc-type servo can be used for cnc. it has feedback, but it goes to the hardware control. if the pot/encoder went to emc control , then it become 'computer numerically controlled' or cnc
[22:30:26] <tom3p> the term 'servo' is overloaded ;)
[22:31:03] <awallin> I saw a haas video which has a programmable coolant nozzle, I was thinking that could be done with an RC-type servo...
[22:31:09] <celeron55> hmm... maybe it is fairly precise then... i wonder if all magnets are precise?
[22:31:40] <tom3p> awallin: i've used servo controlled flush valves for edm. you can but 256 step valves off the shelf
[22:31:49] <tom3p> buy
[22:32:06] <celeron55> tom3p: you can control them with emc directly by making the control signal for the original electronics at the parallel port :P
[22:32:35] <tom3p> we made them on taiwanese machines, every change required going home and counting back to the desired posn ( kuldge in PLC )
[22:32:41] <celeron55> they just have overly large backlash in the gearing and control loop, at least cheap ones
[22:32:54] <tom3p> celeron55: yes
[22:33:07] <celeron55> maybe openservo fixes that a bit
[22:33:56] <tom3p> the feedback should be a flowmeter, the actuator a stepper connected to the valve screw
[22:34:59] <numen> hi
[22:35:20] <tom3p> hi
[22:35:29] <tom3p> cauliflower rice is pretty good :)
[22:35:39] <tom3p> bbl
[22:39:27] <numen> why you dont speak german? ^^
[23:02:31] <awallin> can anyone recommend a cheap opto-coupler? needs to be fast enough for PWM, ca 50kHz signal or so
[23:32:40] <L84Supper> awallin: like these http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=784 http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/ps2501.pdf
[23:35:01] <L84Supper> awallin : they come in lots of flavors , Logic Output, Triac, SCR. etc http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&WT.z_homepage_link=hp_go_button&KeyWords=optoisolators&x=0&y=0
[23:35:27] <jt-plasma> IT's ALIVE!
[23:41:05] <pcw_home> awallin for accurate isolation of 50 KHz PWM you need a very fast coupler (no optos probably)
[23:41:07] <pcw_home> We use the Analog Devices 100 mbit i-couplers for such tasks
[23:49:24] <jt-plasma> pcw_home: on the 7i33 if you just need 0-10v like for a spindle on one axis that is ok?
[23:50:19] <jt-plasma> the X and Z require +-10v but the spindle requires 0-10v plus fwd and rev bits
[23:52:04] <pcw_home> Yes I think you may need the absolute value comp also so you only request + values
[23:52:06] <pcw_home> (but I'm no HAL expert)
[23:53:02] <jt-plasma> LOL neither am I but I get by... with some help from my friends
[23:53:28] <jt-plasma> this is for my Hardinge Lathe
[23:56:11] <pcw_home> I looked at your pictures, looks like a nice machine!
[23:56:13] <pcw_home> amazingly clean for it age
[23:56:27] <pcw_home> (its)
[23:56:48] <jt-plasma> yes it was very clean and the electrical cabinets are clean as well