#emc | Logs for 2009-11-25

[00:00:14] <Engineer> I will ask
[00:00:24] <andypugh> If they can post to the UK or the US for free, then Iraq _shouldn't_ be all that much more.
[00:01:57] <archivist_emc> awallin, dan heeks should see that
[00:02:37] <Engineer> guys.. what vga cards does emc2 support ?
[00:03:06] <Engineer> my 128MB Nvedia didn't work
[00:05:04] <andypugh> Engineer: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Nvidia_Card_configuration_issues
[00:06:10] <Engineer> thanks man
[00:06:20] <Engineer> now I had a lot of reading to do
[00:06:23] <Engineer> BRB
[00:06:31] <Engineer> have*
[00:06:40] <archivist_emc> we have sleeping to do
[00:06:44] <awallin> is ATI any better?
[00:07:14] <Engineer> what time is it out there ?
[00:07:26] <Engineer> it's 3:07 am here
[00:08:02] <Engineer> half of my brain is already asleep
[00:08:52] <andypugh> 3am is traditional linux kernel compiling time, when you can't make noise in the workshop...
[00:09:37] <Engineer> hahaha didn't get there yet
[00:09:57] <andypugh> Engineer: Does your computer have on-board video? Or is that the Nvidia one? You might be able to just remove the card and use on-board. EMC2 graphics requirments are modest
[00:10:13] <Engineer> but if my machine starts working I wouldn't care about the time
[00:10:54] <Engineer> no it has no on-board chip
[00:11:05] <Engineer> :(
[00:11:54] <Engineer> it pops up 800x600 screen
[00:12:00] <andypugh> Try the cheapest non NVidia you can find. You might even be able to just swap the card for a worse one.
[00:12:36] <Engineer> does ATI work fine with ubuntu?
[00:13:28] <andypugh> I am no expert, but I think everything ought to work with Normal Ubuntu, but the real-time kernel does not work with the Nvidia drivers.
[00:14:01] <Engineer> yeah .. I just read that in the page you send me :(
[00:14:23] <andypugh> Are you booting from the Live CD? Is it just that it defaults to a small screen, or can you not see anything?
[00:14:50] <Engineer> I'm booting from a live cd yes
[00:15:09] <Engineer> the screen is 800x600
[00:15:22] <andypugh> And you can't change it?
[00:15:52] <Engineer> I'm no expert in Linux
[00:16:00] <andypugh> Neither am I.
[00:16:01] <Engineer> I tried to
[00:16:13] <Engineer> but didn't find the settings
[00:16:39] <jt-plasma> ubuntu might not know what driver to use for your video card
[00:16:40] <andypugh> (I am booting a VM to see)
[00:17:02] <Engineer> what a VM ?
[00:17:14] <andypugh> Virtual Machine, I am on my Mac here
[00:17:34] <Engineer> I have never used Mac
[00:17:42] <andypugh> And thinking about it, the LiveCD won't use the daft Nvidia drivers. SO you can ignore all that
[00:17:45] <jt-plasma> If you can't go to System/Preferences/Screen Resolution and change it then Ubuntu can't figure out your video card
[00:17:55] <Engineer> but I think it's weak just like windows
[00:18:26] <Engineer> Thanks JT I'll try that
[00:19:03] <jt-plasma> np
[00:19:34] <jt-plasma> ubuntu defaults to 800x600 when it don't know what to do
[00:19:34] <Engineer> isn't there a version of emc that works on Windows?
[00:19:38] <jt-plasma> no
[00:19:41] <andypugh> No
[00:19:46] <Engineer> :(
[00:19:57] <jt-plasma> windoz is not a good real time enviroment
[00:19:57] <Engineer> it would be a lot easier
[00:20:13] <Engineer> yeah it's not indeed
[00:20:25] <jt-plasma> mach is windows and works somewhat
[00:20:33] <andypugh> EMC needs real-time threads, and windows is truly hopeless at it.
[00:20:44] <Engineer> and may be a virus will type its name using my cnc lol
[00:21:36] <jt-plasma> Engineer: is this an onboard video card or a laptop?
[00:21:43] <andypugh> I am growing to like the way that Linux/EMC works, especially the way that problems get fixed (or you can fix them yourself, with a big enough brain)
[00:21:56] <Engineer> there's another problem
[00:22:02] <Engineer> I have a laptop
[00:22:19] <jt-plasma> not good for real time due to the power saving "features"
[00:22:26] <Engineer> but it has no parellel port on it
[00:22:26] <awallin> like if there is no 5-axis CAM code available, you write it yourself...
[00:22:30] <andypugh> Some work, I think
[00:22:51] <eric_unterhause1> somewhat unlikely for a laptop to be suitable
[00:23:04] <andypugh> Do you only have a laptop, or is the Nvidia card in something else?
[00:23:26] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma wanders away to the house
[00:23:41] <alex_joni> Engineer: there was a version of emc running on windows
[00:23:47] <Engineer> come to think again .. i have an old laptop with parelell port .. it's compaq
[00:23:47] <alex_joni> but it was sim only
[00:23:51] <alex_joni> no hardware control
[00:24:18] <andypugh> An old laptop might work, it is more likely to than a new one.
[00:24:23] <Engineer> alex .. what's good about it then
[00:24:37] <alex_joni> Engineer: it's running on windows.. what should be good about that?
[00:24:42] <andypugh> Try booting that from the LiveCD and running the latency test.
[00:24:53] <Engineer> nothing i guess
[00:25:05] <Engineer> I did
[00:25:13] <andypugh> You could use it to check out your G-code and that sort of thing.
[00:25:21] <Engineer> max jitter 43000 !
[00:25:27] <alex_joni> andypugh: you can do that in a VM too
[00:25:47] <andypugh> High, but probably usable.
[00:26:35] <Engineer> God ! I need to do a lot of study on these manuals
[00:26:45] <Engineer> I'm totaly new to emc
[00:27:03] <andypugh> alex_joni: Aye, I have a live-cd install VM on my Mac here for testing things out in the warm.
[00:27:40] <andypugh> You could just dive straight in and search the Wiki pages when you get stuck. That's what I did.
[00:27:51] <alex_joni> most of the time I have a dapper and a hardy VM handy when I'm on a doze box
[00:29:50] <Engineer> BRB
[00:29:53] <andypugh> I would say that 43,000nS jitter is right on the top end of what is usable, but there is no reason not to try it and see how you get on. For a simple stepper-based machine without encoders it would probably be OK.
[00:30:14] <andypugh> (Feel free to disagree chaps)
[00:30:39] <alex_joni> might be ok on low step rates
[00:30:52] <alex_joni> otoh it depends how long he ran the test..
[00:31:05] <alex_joni> if it was only for a couple of seconds, maybe it's actually worse
[00:31:10] <andypugh> Yes. And what he did at the same time.
[00:31:21] <alex_joni> I have a laptop (the one I'm writing from) which most of the time works great
[00:31:30] <alex_joni> about 10-12usec latency
[00:31:40] <andypugh> Mine was 250,000 every 64 seconds, but you needed to wait long enough to see that.
[00:31:40] <alex_joni> unless I use the Fn-functions
[00:31:46] <alex_joni> then it jumps to couple msecs
[00:31:58] <alex_joni> for example Fn-F3,4 for screen brightness
[00:32:13] <andypugh> Hardware interrupts?
[00:32:24] <andypugh> I guess they could be handled by the Evil SMI?
[00:32:28] <alex_joni> probably BIOS handling the stuff
[00:32:42] <alex_joni> as long as I don't do that it's fine
[00:32:55] <alex_joni> even hardware accel works ok for the graphics
[00:33:02] <alex_joni> intel mumble
[00:33:40] <andypugh> Have you tried the SMI patch? Just out of curiosity to see if it kills the Fn keys?
[00:37:05] <alex_joni> nope
[00:37:18] <alex_joni> I actually like cooling my laptop properly :D
[00:37:26] <alex_joni> and since it works ok.. why bother?
[00:37:36] <alex_joni> anyways.. close to 3am here.. off to bed for me
[00:37:58] <andypugh> Aye, time I stopped for the night too.
[01:01:27] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:22:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping
[01:34:28] <spasticteapot> Is there a forum where I can offer money for something to be made on a CNC machine?
[01:35:09] <roh> spasticteapot not sure. i dont know such a place atm
[01:36:15] <eric_unterhause1> cnczone has a forum for that
[01:36:47] <spasticteapot> eric_unterhause1: Thanks.
[01:38:09] <spasticteapot> I'm trying to build a waveguide, which is basically just a bowl carved into one side of a polyethylene cylinder 4" in diameter and 1" high. How much should I offer?
[01:38:28] <eric_unterhause1> ask for quotes
[01:38:33] <spasticteapot> It's a simple shape, and polyethylene is supposed to be easy to mill. And I don't need terribly high precision.
[01:38:46] <spasticteapot> Good idea.
[01:39:02] <eric_unterhause1> try to quantify the precision needed
[01:40:06] <spasticteapot> +/- 0.1mm.
[01:40:40] <spasticteapot> Although, to be honest, I can work with less than that if I smooth it out afterwards with some sandpaper. It need not be hugely precise.
[01:41:19] <spasticteapot> It's like the dented-looking square bit around the tweeter on this speaker: http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/graphics/genelec-ht208.jpg
[01:41:50] <eric_unterhause1> that kind of waveguide
[01:42:31] <eric_unterhause1> try it, worst case is that some guys on the internet will be annoyed with you
[01:43:49] <spasticteapot> Yep.
[01:43:58] <spasticteapot> Even a crappy homemade milling machine should be able to do the job.
[01:44:18] <spasticteapot> I'm going to electroplate a pretty thick layer of copper over the top afterwards anyway, which should hopefully cover up any imperfections.
[01:44:28] <eric_unterhause1> if you're lucky, you'll find someone with a cnc lathe
[01:44:47] <eric_unterhause1> I think electroplating usually makes things worse
[01:48:18] <tom3p> spasticteapot: found it.... http://www.emachineshop.com
[01:48:24] <tom3p> you'll have to get real specific, like a cad dwg, and you'll get a quote 1st
[01:48:53] <tom3p> they give you a cad system to draw it up (W$)
[01:52:10] <eric_unterhause1> the blue saw is another option
[01:52:41] <eric_unterhause1> http://www.bigbluesaw.com/
[01:52:55] <eric_unterhause1> I've seen emachine shop run specials
[01:53:16] <spasticteapot> eric_unterhause: Why does electroplating make things worse?
[01:53:21] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping ping ping
[01:53:39] <eric_unterhause1> shiny makes imperfections more obvious
[01:54:00] <spasticteapot> I'm going for a rough surface, and I'm going to sand and polish it first by hand.
[01:54:02] <tom3p> big blue looks waterjet only, good for flat stuff
[01:54:34] <spasticteapot> A slightly rough surface reduces acoustic reflections. (Also, every other studio monitor in the cosmos does it, so when in rome....)
[01:55:27] <eric_unterhause1> tom3p, they mentioned cnc
[01:55:53] <tom3p> k, didnt see that
[01:56:32] <tom3p> hey, where the similar software e-shop 'SMOPbeUS' ?
[01:56:55] <eric_unterhause1> for software?
[01:57:00] <tom3p> yeh :)
[01:57:03] <eric_unterhause1> it's in Romania
[01:57:49] <eric_unterhause1> when I hung out in programmer forums more I probably could have tracked some people down to do that for you
[03:13:22] <Engineer> hi
[03:15:18] <kanzure> hello Engineer
[03:15:57] <Engineer> what's up
[03:27:58] <coldelectrons> hm...I definitely need a 74AHC573
[03:28:33] <coldelectrons> or a timewarp portal to tell my past self to get into CPLDs :)
[03:29:37] <coldelectrons> Oh yeah, and I could tell Past Me what the lottery numbers would be, so I could afford FPGAs and other real equipment XD
[03:31:10] <ries> hey all, I was just reading this : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration#Run_a_Latency_Test
[03:31:47] <ries> Wouldn't it be possible for teh computer itself to configure itself correctly rather then the user (with or without the spreadsheet) to make the needed settings?
[03:34:03] <L84Supper> ries: most tweaks are BIOS settings, so no
[03:35:10] <ries> L84Supper: ic.. I thought I needed ovl max and do some more calculations on it... I am still downloading teh CD... so I am not sure, it's jus what I did understood from the text
[03:38:37] <L84Supper> ries : I was referring to latency and latency jitter
[03:38:50] <ries> Ahhh ic...
[03:39:14] <ries> Need to look into the BIOS thing then once I have it installed.... it has been a very long time since I touched a PC...
[03:40:00] <ries> I hope to get my test PC tomorrow
[04:44:36] <tom3p> some success in gEDA for HAL schematics http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem
[04:45:31] <tom3p> gotta re-do all the symbols, and write some translation/parser tools
[04:45:39] <eric_mill> if all I want to do is set an output using HAL, do I need threads?
[04:46:24] <tom3p> yes, nothing happens unless its connected to a thread, and the thread is started
[04:46:59] <tom3p> the hal manual is good
[04:47:06] <tom3p> try the examples
[04:50:14] <tom3p> i try to get a 1/2 hr of hal in every evening now :) i hooked one parport up to a breadboard just for that.
[04:53:48] <eric_mill> did all the pins on the hostmot2 driver get renamed between the release and the current trunk?
[05:33:42] <roh> funny question: what do lasercutters usually use for modulating the laser power?
[05:33:49] <roh> z axis? spindle speed?
[05:34:11] <roh> if the latter, is it a '2d device' means, it doesnt have a z axis?
[05:38:01] <eric_unterhause1> a laser doesn't have a z axis
[05:38:17] <eric_unterhause1> people try to use the z axis motion to trigger with generally poor results
[05:49:08] <roh> eric_unterhause1 so whats used for power? the 'spindle speed' ?
[05:49:22] <eric_unterhause1> that's a problem
[05:49:54] <eric_unterhause1> my understanding is that spindle speed doesn't work either
[05:51:42] <eric_unterhause1> my understanding is that it's not a solved problem
[05:51:51] <eric_unterhause1> or that if someone has solved it, they aren't talking
[05:51:54] <roh> thats bad
[05:52:09] <eric_unterhause1> not for me
[05:52:28] <roh> any suggestions? i mean.. how do professional boxes do it?
[05:52:41] <roh> don't they use gcode?
[05:53:03] <eric_unterhause1> did you see the discussion 12-13 hours ago?
[05:53:15] <eric_unterhause1> with cradek and jmkasunich?
[05:53:46] <eric_unterhause1> I don't think the professional machines use gcode
[05:54:17] <roh> hm.. scrolled out (the discussion)
[05:54:26] <roh> what do they use instead?
[05:54:44] <eric_unterhause1> the ones I have seen are raster
[05:54:52] <roh> we are discussing buying something like this: http://cgi.ebay.de/CO2-Laser-Gravieren-Gravur-Stempel-Schneiden-USB-PC-CO_W0QQitemZ170403314418QQ
[05:55:01] <eric_unterhause1> they probably have their own data representation
[05:55:01] <L84Supper> roh: what type of modulation do you need? how fast and how many steps?
[05:55:06] <roh> but the software is pretty much crap
[05:55:12] <roh> L84Supper dont know yet.
[05:56:37] <L84Supper> roh : do you want to control it from the same UI as EMC?
[05:57:46] <roh> L84Supper the device seems to have only a analog pot by default. i'd like it to be able to switch different profiles by itself, like engraving and cutting
[06:01:52] <L84Supper> from what I've read the problem with using z axis to trigger the laser is dwell time
[06:02:09] <roh> ?
[06:03:12] <roh> ah.. ok.. i guess modifying the power levels 'while moving' isnt really something needed. so (ab)using spindle speed as power-level settings makes more sense
[06:03:19] <roh> can emc be used XY only?
[06:04:55] <eric_unterhause1> not without modification
[06:06:12] <roh> so leaving the axis in, but not connecting it anywhere is what others do?
[06:07:42] <L84Supper> I wonder what the problem would be with using spindle speed?
[06:08:12] <eric_unterhause1> same kind of problem, it waits til it's up to speed
[06:09:02] <L84Supper> looks like HAL needs some additional features
[06:09:36] <eric_unterhause1> you should be able to do it with a hal component that runs at base period
[06:10:14] <roh> what wait?
[06:10:39] <roh> does emc delay execution somehow when setting spindle speed?
[06:11:02] <eric_unterhause1> unless it's up to speed
[06:11:56] <roh> how does it sense it? i thougt usually its just a dir and a pwm out
[06:12:24] <eric_unterhause1> it either senses it or you tell it, either way it's problematic as a trigger
[06:13:38] <roh> i still dont know why that should be a problem
[06:13:54] <eric_unterhause1> try it
[06:17:12] <roh> i will.. just wanted to check out potential issues beforehand
[06:21:46] <eric_unterhause1> did you see the post in the support forum and in cnczone about this?
[06:22:56] <roh> nope
[06:22:57] <L84Supper> I can see a few new HAL modules that would come in handy for lasers and printers
[06:23:28] <roh> currently sifting through emc code to find out more about spindle handling
[06:23:53] <L84Supper> triggers for digital IO and DAC's and ADC's
[06:24:37] <L84Supper> based on position info
[06:25:45] <L84Supper> someone mentioned that EMC only looks ahead to the next segment, maybe this could be extended so m62/63 could handle some apps
[07:08:00] <cnc_valen> quick question got the zaxis running now, what do i twiddle so emc knows that up is harder than down?
[07:08:12] <cnc_valen> bias?
[07:08:15] <awallin> "harder" ?
[07:08:20] <awallin> stepper or servo?
[07:08:50] <cnc_valen> servo
[07:10:03] <awallin> usually people use counterweights, or gas-springs to help against gravity
[07:10:44] <cnc_valen> i havent seen a professional mill done that way
[07:10:59] <cnc_valen> but it isnt actually answering the question
[07:11:02] <eric_unterhause1> you didn't look
[07:11:02] <awallin> or maybe hydraulics
[07:11:41] <eric_unterhause1> bridgeport series II has a pneumatic assist on the knee
[07:12:02] <cnc_valen> right so short answer is you dont know then
[07:12:05] <eric_unterhause1> the pros may just tune it
[07:12:51] <eric_unterhause1> most quills are probably close enough not to matter
[07:13:51] <cnc_valen> this is moving a 100kg head
[07:14:15] <awallin> and you want slower acc and max vel upwards?
[07:16:23] <cnc_valen> no I want more "power" I spose
[07:17:10] <cnc_valen> I'll just play for a bit
[07:17:13] <eric_unterhause1> bigger motor
[07:17:26] <awallin> I guess different PID gains could be done but will it help
[07:18:16] <cnc_valen> stop with hardware changes, the mill is here it is as it is,i have a specific question If you cant answer it dont bother
[07:19:23] <eric_unterhause1> yes massa
[07:19:36] <cnc_valen> the power is more than sufficent, its the fact that it drives differently in different directions
[07:20:14] <cnc_valen> I was trying to reduce ferror from .5mm to something more reasonable
[07:22:13] <eric_unterhause1> i hate to try to help now, but generally it's very difficult to do something like that
[07:22:27] <eric_unterhause1> what if you are moving up, but get ahead?
[07:22:32] <eric_unterhause1> then your pid gains will be off
[07:23:08] <cnc_valen> see now you might actually be helping
[07:23:14] <eric_unterhause1> so the most reasonable approach is to find something that works
[07:23:21] <eric_unterhause1> for both
[07:23:48] <cnc_valen> A static offset of the unbalanced force should be sufficent I'd imagine?
[07:24:54] <eric_unterhause1> it seems to me that lifting controls are something that people have studied
[07:27:44] <cnc_valen> should be
[07:29:55] <awallin> anyone tried these "free shipping" sellers from china on ebay? any good?
[07:30:16] <eric_unterhause1> I have bought from dealextreme
[07:30:50] <eric_unterhause1> it can be a hassle, they may wait for orders before they get stock
[07:32:30] <cnc_valen> deal extreme are good
[07:32:36] <cnc_valen> some shipping delays
[07:32:52] <cnc_valen> half of my xmasshopping is comiing from there
[07:33:30] <cnc_valen> but no i havent seen/used a free shipping from china place on ebay
[07:38:19] <cnc_valen> back later putting mill computer into new hole
[09:26:04] <archivist> I have bought from china shipping was not free but was now to expensive (ballscrew)
[09:32:47] <roh> heh .... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/DSC00084.JPG says atleast somebody got emc to run with 2 axis only
[09:38:57] <archivist> roh I found another last night, an etch a sketch driven by emc
[09:39:26] <Jymmm> archivist: cradek made one I think, maybe jepler
[09:39:50] <archivist> it was on jepler's pages
[09:42:02] <Jymmm> archivist: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/etchcnc It was jepler
[09:53:22] <micges_work> roh: it's my child ;)
[09:53:46] <micges_work> roh: I'm using hal comp for laser power modulation computed from actual velocity
[10:16:47] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:43:33] <Valen> so wassup all
[10:54:22] <jthornton> morning
[11:36:02] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,24/id,1191/lang,english/#1191
[11:39:33] <archivist> jthornton, another excuse for one of us over here to distribute mesa cards, /me hates start up costs though
[11:41:04] <jthornton> yea, you gotta have the dough to make the dough
[11:45:16] <jthornton> what options do you guys have over there for servo drives?
[11:45:59] <Valen> whats wrong with importing them?
[11:47:09] <Valen> mesa were quite nioce to deal with for shipping to aus
[11:48:44] <jthornton> I wonder how bad the import fees are in Italy
[11:56:18] <archivist> we have shipping fees, import duty and VAT to import to UK
[11:58:29] <Valen> we only have to pay dutys if its over $1000 by post or $500 by courier
[11:59:57] <archivist> I dont think there is a legal minimum here but they do turn a blind eye to low value single items by post
[12:00:18] <Valen> might want to check that
[12:00:36] <Valen> the minimum that is
[12:02:09] <archivist> heh £7 or over
[12:02:15] <Valen> bastards
[12:02:32] <archivist> http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_001454&propertyType=document
[12:03:05] <archivist> I have brought stuff in over that and not had to pay luckily
[12:04:19] <Valen> was it declared higher?
[12:05:25] <archivist> I think the hong kong supplier marked down :) cant remember on the others recently
[12:06:13] <Valen> find somewhere in the EU that doesn't do all that import stuff and drop ship it via there?
[12:06:44] <archivist> heh EU is harmonised
[12:07:04] <Valen> they all have the 3 duties to pay on imports?
[12:07:25] <archivist> should be same rules for all in the EU
[12:07:46] <archivist> except for inter EU transfers
[12:09:48] <Valen> some of them may have higer limits
[12:15:19] <archivist> if you google an item you will tend to find a retail $ price in the US becomes a £ price over here nearly a doubling in cost to the user
[12:30:43] <Valen> how would importing them in bulk differ though?
[12:32:11] <Valen> oh that reminds me, any idea how I could compensate for gravity making the Z axis easier to drive in one direction over the other?
[12:43:52] <jthornton> in EMC or mechaniclly?
[12:45:00] <Valen> emc
[12:45:06] <Valen> pid style
[12:45:34] <Valen> on a servo system
[12:47:40] <jthornton> Z+ lags behind and Z- overshoots?
[12:47:46] <Valen> yeah
[12:52:32] <Valen> dont be coy cmon out with it man ;->
[12:53:00] <jthornton> LOL, I don't have a clue
[12:53:11] <Valen> oh so cold
[12:53:40] <jthornton> other than mechanical fixes
[12:54:06] <Valen> tried some of those, wernt nice
[12:54:31] <jthornton> did they help at all?
[14:07:20] <MrSunshine> jthornton, weight that makes it about +-0 in weight? :P
[14:07:34] <MrSunshine> ahh other then mechanical fixes :P
[14:26:01] <jt-plasma> I have figured out which two terminals on the Semens servo drive take the speed signal from the controller and that one is + and one is - but no clues on what the volts are...
[14:28:12] <jt-plasma> and they come straight from the controller
[14:28:38] <jt-plasma> s/Semens/Siemens
[14:37:57] <jt-plasma> it's a DC chopper drive what ever that is :)
[14:41:41] <jt-plasma> Ahh, Speed Setpoint is +-10v
[14:44:17] <jt-plasma> looks like I need a 7i33ta
[14:45:33] <jt-plasma> can I test run the drive with a lab power supply?
[14:46:08] <archivist> I imagine yes with care
[14:47:23] <archivist> does the drive need any enables setting
[14:48:34] <jt-plasma> yes it is 24v
[14:50:01] <archivist> * archivist expects a youtube vid this evening then :)
[14:50:39] <jt-plasma> LOL
[14:51:06] <jt-plasma> I would have to go out an purchase a video camera first
[14:53:26] <celeron55> doesn't everyone have a phone or something these days which is able to record video :P
[15:02:31] <Jymmm> take a bunch of still photos ad make a flipbook, then convert it to an animated gif
[15:08:31] <jt-plasma> or I could sketch some up and upload them to pastebin
[15:10:06] <cradek> jt-plasma: did you find any signs of tachometers?
[15:10:16] <celeron55> you can use emc to push the button of the still camera at constant intervals and move really slowly
[15:10:23] <jt-plasma> yes, between the drive and the motors
[15:10:33] <celeron55> and then make a gif of the images
[15:11:11] <cradek> cool. since you know it's velocity mode it should be safe to drive it around carefully with a 1.5v battery
[15:11:14] <jt-plasma> seems like the encoder feedback went to the controller and the speed command came back and the rest is internal to the drives
[15:11:43] <cradek> yes that's very normal for the era
[15:11:44] <jt-plasma> the x and y are positively +- 10v
[15:11:50] <cradek> (and exactly what you want!)
[15:12:09] <jt-plasma> now I'm trying to verify the spindle drive input
[15:12:15] <cradek> ah
[15:13:40] <jt-plasma> it too seems to have very little connections with the control just like the axis drive
[15:15:02] <cradek> seems like there must be an encoder or something similar on the spindle
[15:16:23] <jt-plasma> yes encoders everywhere including the turret :)
[15:25:25] <jt-plasma> whew... I finally found the model number of the spindle drive... I had to stand on my head :)
[15:26:16] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[15:32:32] <jt-plasma> the spindle is a digital ac spindle servo unit model 6 6000 rpm
[15:36:45] <numen> hi
[15:41:02] <ries> a 14GB partition for EMC2 should be plenty enough, right?
[15:45:40] <jt-plasma> I'm still waiting for properties to finish it's up to 7 gb now
[15:47:14] <jt-plasma> I have a bunch of stuff besides EMC and it topped out at 7.6GB
[15:47:27] <celeron55> ries: well, it's ubuntu that eats most of the space, but 14GB should be more than enough for the usual system you install from the live cd
[15:47:52] <jt-plasma> cradek: the spindle drive appears to be 0-10v with fwd and rev signals as well as the usual enables etc.
[15:48:18] <ries> celeron55: jt-plasma : great.. I am just planning to put some files on it... that's all
[15:53:09] <tom3p> hal files have a mechanism to read data from the .ini file ( var_name=[Section]TOKEN), if i use hal without emc, can i use the same trick?
[15:58:41] <Jymmm> http://www.hobbyengineering.com/H1918.html
[16:08:31] <Jymmm> anyone need any 2n3904's?
[16:09:07] <cradek> ries: I think the install is about 3-4GB. last I tried on a 4GB disk it was tight. 8GB disk is very roomy.
[16:09:45] <cradek> jt-plasma: that's great. sounds like you just need to wire it all up.
[16:10:24] <ries> cradek: going to get a printer cable now... and this afternoon I can start testing :)
[16:11:02] <Jymmm> ries: Make sure all 26 pins are wired end-to-end
[16:11:16] <ries> Jymmm: Hmm good remark...
[16:11:26] <ries> I cannot 'see' this, right?
[16:12:10] <cradek> not directly
[16:12:21] <Jymmm> ries: Sometimes it's deceptive. They'll use thick insulation - sometimes it'll say on the package.
[16:12:21] <cradek> sometimes the packaging will say it
[16:12:28] <cradek> having all the pins is a good clue
[16:12:40] <cradek> having a nice fat wire is a good clue
[16:12:45] <cradek> nothing's sure
[16:12:50] <ries> I will see what they have... this is Ecuador.... so anythign can happen...
[16:14:17] <Jymmm> ries: sometimes an "extension" cable will be fully wired, as it can be used for serial or parallel
[16:14:48] <ries> W'll see what I can find...
[16:15:34] <numen> does anyone know a highside driver, which works on the a3986?
[16:15:34] <Jymmm> ries: Like a DB25 M-F, then you can also pick up a gender changer if needed, like this: http://www.microbarn.com/itemimages/ADA-25M25M.jpg
[16:16:22] <ries> Jymmm: good ideas.... let's see what they have in the little shops around me
[16:19:00] <skunkworks> numen: I thought the a3986 had a high driver in it..
[16:19:29] <skunkworks> *high side
[16:20:28] <skunkworks> 'The above-supply voltage required for the high-side N-channel MOSFETs is provided by a bootstrap capacitor.'
[16:22:48] <numen> skunkworks yes, but i want to use more than 50v on the mosfets
[16:23:00] <skunkworks> ugg
[16:23:53] <numen> so i think, if i put the c1a pin to the vreg pin, i will have only 12V on the output?
[16:23:57] <numen> i that right?
[16:24:33] <numen> cause then i can use an highside driver on the output pin for the high side mosfet
[16:26:31] <numen> could this work? so i dont have more than 12V on the output pins ^^
[16:26:53] <skunkworks> I don't think anyone here is willing to guess.
[16:27:15] <archivist> numen, if you redesign the output bridge and add catch diodes
[16:27:29] <archivist> some thinking required
[16:29:51] <numen> archivist i know, but i want to use a higher voltage than 50v
[16:30:28] <archivist> you said that 6 times already
[16:31:08] <numen> so i think, if the c1a, c1b c2a c2b inputs are on 12v, the output voltage on the gate drivers can not be higher than 12v?
[16:31:16] <numen> http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/3986/3986.pdf
[16:31:49] <archivist> I am not going to look, this has to be your design work
[16:32:13] <numen> and the s1A to gnd
[16:33:10] <numen> archivist i dont want a finished project from you, just the question, that this could work?
[16:33:28] <archivist> I dont know!
[16:33:41] <numen> ok
[16:34:02] <archivist> I also think its likely to let the smoke out with your level of experience
[16:35:32] <numen> so you think, this could not work?
[16:37:02] <jt-plasma> the cooling fans and the work light work :)
[16:37:24] <archivist> small steps :)
[16:37:55] <archivist> just a few hours to get chips off the machine by end of work day
[16:38:00] <jt-plasma> yea, I'm being real careful not to let any more smoke out :P
[16:38:33] <archivist> will the old control come back up
[16:41:01] <celeron55> hmm, what is numen trying to do
[16:41:33] <archivist> abuse a chip beyond its spec
[16:41:42] <celeron55> what chip
[16:41:50] <archivist> a3986
[16:42:46] <numen> celeron55 i want to use an highside driver on the highside output of the a3986 for higher mosfet voltage
[16:44:00] <numen> and i search for a solution, that the output voltage on the highside is not higher than 12v
[16:44:32] <archivist> numen, look harder, it uses a capacitor
[16:46:06] <numen> yes, but if i dont use the cap, there would bi no higher voltage on the output than 12v, cause there were 12V +ucap
[16:46:31] <jt-plasma> archivist no it is doa
[16:46:48] <archivist> they already take the gate further than 12v
[16:46:52] <L84Supper> I'm just starting to look into writing new HAL components. Will it be a problem to have IO triggers for digital IO or ADC/DAC's based on position info?
[16:47:32] <archivist> jt-plasma, I thought you may entertain 5 minutes to get the controller up, or has that 5 mins passed :)
[16:48:38] <numen> archivist i think, it takes the gate to 12v, if there is no cap connected? prehabs ive to connect the s1a, s1b s2a and s2b to gnd
[16:53:45] <skunkworks> numen: maybe try #electronics
[16:59:27] <jt-plasma> archivist: all ready spent that time up days ago :)
[16:59:53] <archivist> :)
[17:01:00] <jt-plasma> the spindle brake works :)
[17:02:01] <archivist> you are enjoying yourself over there!
[17:02:52] <jt-plasma> yes so far
[17:07:56] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[17:39:22] <MrSunshine> tomorrow its me who go and buy some new bolts so that i can get the Z axis of the machine in place :P
[17:43:51] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[17:44:36] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[18:30:49] <jt-plasma> darn don't have enough power out of my vfd to get past the inrush of the transformer...
[18:32:16] <MOGLI> can i use PCI express Anything IO card from MESANET with EMC2???
[18:33:05] <MOGLI> or which MESACARD is native for EMC2???
[18:34:08] <archivist> you can see some mesanet cards that work here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[18:34:45] <archivist> more than one card :)
[18:37:58] <MOGLI> thanks archivist: i read that and dint found PCI Express... should i choose EPP or PCI????
[18:38:30] <MOGLI> any specific model no. knownn working with EMC2 .. for step/dir
[18:38:36] <archivist> iirc he is bringing out a pci express real soon
[18:39:01] <MOGLI> IIRC?? plz forgive me for bothering but can you give a link
[18:47:40] <robh> jt-plasma, if you are the one with the CHNC with simens drives, if u need a manual or info let me know i have the full setup manual and have just done a machine with thoes drives and motors and any other info for machine u may need happy to help out
[18:48:25] <jt-plasma> robh: yes that is me and thanks for the offer. I think I have most of the manuals and drawings...
[18:48:56] <robh> only thing i dont think i have is full maintence manual for spindle drive, ours has a fanuc drive and motor, how about yours
[18:49:21] <jt-plasma> Yes it is a fanuc drive and motor
[18:49:38] <jt-plasma> A06B-6055-H106
[18:49:46] <robh> big digital drive
[18:50:11] <jt-plasma> I have the connections to the axis drive figured out but not exactly sure yet on the spindle drive
[18:50:21] <robh> i see you have locking pin fitted also, so u should be abel to index and lock spindle every 2.5deg
[18:50:41] <jt-plasma> cool
[18:51:10] <jt-plasma> I wondered what engage and retract spin lock was :)
[18:51:36] <robh> its crude, what they do is, jog the spindle in very slow speed, fire the pin when you get near to postion and pin locks in place (there is disk with groves init) and then turn spindle off put brake on also, and then u can mill flat, put keyways in etc its the budget spindle indexing option
[18:52:27] <jt-plasma> I guess you would have to have more than the normal tool turret to do that
[18:52:45] <robh> u can get speshial tools to go into the turet block
[18:53:10] <robh> they are lowd little air tools, so just need air supply to them, they mega £££
[18:53:18] <jt-plasma> ok, like a ... planer tool
[18:53:26] <robh> like they have on sliding heads
[18:53:56] <robh> u could maybe take a off shelf airtool and make it fit to something if u wanted
[18:54:20] <jt-plasma> I just want to move the axis and spin the spindle atm :)
[18:54:35] <robh> i always looked at moutning one to the top slide for parting off so could drill a hole in abit, as alot of jobs need a hole drilling in it.
[18:54:58] <robh> ill have a look and see what info i have on the spindle
[18:55:34] <robh> if you speak to fanuc they will tell you, email u a doc for it. very helpfull they are now days
[18:55:47] <jt-plasma> I have the maintenance manual for the A06C-xxxx for some reason in addition to the one for the A06B
[18:56:06] <jt-plasma> cool
[18:56:38] <robh> axes u can move just giving a voltage on the setpoint in they call it. and it will do Velocity mode. u may have to reset the tacho speed ref and drift, from the old control as i had to do mine
[18:57:43] <jt-plasma> I have to get a phase converter my little VFD ain't got enough umph to get past the 3-phase transformer inrush
[18:57:58] <jt-plasma> wonder what size I should build
[18:58:30] <jt-plasma> I found the terminals for the axis and the spec +-10v
[18:58:39] <jt-plasma> in the manuals
[18:59:23] <jt-plasma> is that a reset on the drive?
[18:59:27] <robh> yea 10V give u 3000RPM on them motors, they are good little motors run out of puff at 3000rpm tho i found so i caped them down alittle
[18:59:54] <robh> reset? spindle or axes
[19:00:14] <jt-plasma> axis
[19:00:26] <jt-plasma> u may have to reset the tacho speed ref and drift, from the old control as i had to do mine
[19:01:07] <robh> on control board, there are some pots, which set the tacho feedback ref voltage, drifft for analog in, P & I Gain
[19:01:16] <robh> yes
[19:01:30] <jt-plasma> ok, I kinda remember reading about them
[19:01:31] <robh> do you have the Simens Drive manual or just machine manual for axes?
[19:01:56] <jt-plasma> the data sheet on my spindle drive says 6000 rpm
[19:02:17] <robh> depends on spindle motor, as the drive is the same as they fit in the mill
[19:02:35] <jt-plasma> ok, didn't know that
[19:02:53] <robh> if u do not have all 3 phases into it blanced and in phase it will alarm out, and near to its neeeded voltage, word of warning there if u plan to run it on a phase converter etc
[19:03:36] <robh> in the mill u get a extra board that plugs in that 50pin connector on the front, to do spindle orientation
[19:03:38] <celeron55> btw, how much does the X axis move? just thought it might be possible to attach a small spindle for milling on the other side of the work piece to the X axis if you can lock the spindle of the lathe to position 8)
[19:03:41] <jt-plasma> ok, all I have is single phase so I'll have to build another phase converter out here
[19:04:18] <jt-plasma> we built one for the other shop and it is real close on the generated leg
[19:04:20] <ries> hey Guys, my jitter-test runs quite fine, as long as I abuse my system... but as soon as I stop abusing my system then the jitter values jump up (big time) is that a worry?
[19:04:35] <celeron55> hmm... actually, milling wouldn't make too much sense without and additional Z...
[19:04:41] <robh> nice u will know if it does not like it as it will stay in estop
[19:05:04] <jt-plasma> ok thanks for that info
[19:05:22] <pfred1> ries I shouldn't laugh too hard I'm about to install and test my system!
[19:06:05] <pfred1> reis can I ask what kind of a computer?
[19:06:13] <ries> pfred1: craptop :9
[19:06:27] <ries> I know.. I know... I don't have enything else
[19:07:06] <pfred1> ries PC I'm going to run off of is a dumpster diver special
[19:07:08] <celeron55> if they jump up only when you stop abusing, it's some power saving feature for sure
[19:07:20] <celeron55> make sure they're all disabled in the bios
[19:07:52] <ries> celeron55: thought so already..... I checked BIOS, all power saving features are off... and I wonder if Ubuntu does this.... Or may Ubuntu can turn off power savings?
[19:08:09] <jt-plasma> celeron55: about 12 inches for Z and about 6 for X
[19:08:09] <robh> X is slower on speed also (rapid)
[19:08:14] <jt-plasma> robh: thanks for all the tips and help, I gotta run to town now
[19:08:14] <jt-plasma> talk to you later
[19:08:18] <robh> sure ill see what i can find for you
[19:08:18] <robh> speak soon
[19:08:21] <celeron55> the kernel which comes with the live cd doesn't have the power saving features even compiled in i think
[19:08:24] <jt-plasma> thanks
[19:08:47] <pfred1> jt drive its easier
[19:08:48] <celeron55> so it doesn't know anything about power saving, neither about disabling not enabling them 8)
[19:08:56] <celeron55> nor*
[19:09:41] <celeron55> (supposing that what i said about it not including any power saving things was correct)
[19:10:03] <ries> so I guess I should watch Video's on my computer then during my work :)
[19:11:15] <numen> anyone knows a lot about electronics?
[19:11:53] <celeron55> numen: if it's about over volting the same chip, nobody's going to help in that
[19:11:56] <mozmck_work1> someone does
[19:13:18] <numen> celeron55 i dont want to overvolt the chip ^^
[19:13:43] <celeron55> well, maybe for some money even i could. it's a matter of adding an additional regulator and fet drivers to the circuit in the datasheet
[19:13:49] <celeron55> i think
[19:14:35] <celeron55> but don't they have any proper chips for doing it
[19:14:46] <celeron55> that chip sure is meant to be used without any external fet drivers
[19:14:52] <numen> no they dont have
[19:14:56] <celeron55> because it is a fet driver
[19:15:10] <numen> i want to use an externel fet driver for the high side
[19:15:26] <celeron55> that's what you'd have to do
[19:16:39] <celeron55> add a regulator to supply the chip's Vcc pin and add fet drivers to the high side
[19:16:48] <numen> the question is, does it work if i put the bootstrap c input to vreg output and the s1a input to gnd?
[19:18:58] <celeron55> where is bootstrap c input
[19:21:41] <numen> c1a
[19:25:35] <ries> Hmm.. After a reboot I get 'Waiting for component 'lat' to become ready....... anyone? No hits in google...
[19:35:30] <numen> celeron55 or dont use the bootstrap input ^^
[19:35:36] <numen> then it has internel vreg
[19:36:59] <tlab> tlab is now known as tlab_away
[19:39:12] <mozmck_work> ries: lat would be a hal component. what are you trying to run - latency test?
[19:39:41] <ries> mozmck_work: indeed.... mouse works, but I cannot do much after that.... it worked before
[19:40:16] <frallzor> $300. what to buy for the mechmate build. shoot ries!
[19:40:40] <ries> frallzor: I need to check prices here in Ecuador for a PeeCee
[19:40:49] <ries> I had this hold computer and was hoping......
[19:41:56] <frallzor> I got $300 to spend but I cant buy something useful :P
[19:42:42] <mozmck_work> I guess used computers are probably not plentiful in Ecuador?
[19:44:34] <mozmck_work> frallzor, you can't get a good computer for $300?
[19:45:56] <ries> mozmck_work: no, they are not... they are used to death.... even very old mac computers (G5) are sold for a lot of money
[19:46:08] <ries> I will figure something out :=
[19:46:48] <frallzor> mozmck_work not really =/
[19:48:03] <mozmck_work> guess I'm spoiled here...
[19:48:53] <mozmck_work> ries: are import taxes high there? would it be worth buying a used computer from the US?
[19:49:19] <ries> mozmck_work: hehehe... I don't like importing into Ecuador
[19:49:27] <ries> taxes are not high, just weird
[19:49:28] <cradek> wish the ones USians throw out could get elsewhere where people can use them
[19:49:51] <tlab_away> tlab_away is now known as tlab
[19:50:05] <ries> cradek: I whish that this countries duty office wasn't corrupt :)
[19:50:07] <mozmck_work> cradek: my thought. someone gave me the computer for my router table because it wasn't worth anything when he upraded.
[19:50:21] <ries> good thing is, you can still pay under teh table...
[19:50:26] <eric_unterhause1> you can't sell a used computer
[19:50:37] <cradek> yeah, here, the going price for used computers is often $0
[19:50:53] <cradek> especially right after microsoft releases a new OS
[19:50:57] <eric_unterhause1> I just thinned the herd, all went to metal scrap I think
[19:51:39] <mozmck_work> seems like I heard you can import direct to some cities much less expensively
[19:51:59] <eric_unterhause1> I'm building a pile of comps on the front porch to go to the recycling center
[19:52:18] <cradek> I have a barrel for that
[19:52:27] <cradek> no complete stuff in it though - only parts
[19:52:38] <mozmck_work> ries: are you in Quito? I've heard that the corruption there varies by city.
[19:52:52] <mozmck_work> bleh, my connection seems flaky...
[19:52:55] <eric_unterhause1> that's a good idea, I should thin the component herd too
[19:54:27] <ries> mozmck_work: yup... Quito.. or actually close to
[19:55:14] <frallzor> anyone know of an alternative to igus overpriced energy chaines?
[19:55:59] <eric_unterhause1> getting igus overpriced energy chains in a pile of junk for $10
[19:56:21] <eric_unterhause1> but on a more serious note, there were some people making energy chains on cnczone
[19:56:43] <eric_unterhause1> you can also get flexible conduit that will work ok, I got some on a robot
[19:57:17] <frallzor> making chains? link?
[19:59:02] <mozmck_work> what is an energy chain?
[19:59:14] <L84Supper> http://www.igus.com/echain.asp
[19:59:27] <L84Supper> Cable Carriers
[19:59:47] <mozmck_work> ah, hadn't heard them called energy chains.
[20:00:21] <L84Supper> brand names
[20:02:04] <frallzor> Im surprised there isnt shitloads of chinese copies
[20:02:46] <L84Supper> http://www.techno-isel.com/tic/H834/HTML/H834P175.html
[20:03:08] <LawrenceG> logger_emc, bookmark
[20:03:08] <LawrenceG> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-11-25.txt
[20:03:39] <L84Supper> page 133
[20:04:18] <frallzor> no pricing?
[20:04:56] <L84Supper> heh Kabelschlepp... great name
[20:05:53] <L84Supper> http://www.drillspot.com/brand/Kabelschlepp
[20:06:32] <frallzor> ouch on pricing
[20:06:39] <andypugh> I missed an eBay bargain today, I am not sure if I am glad or sorry
[20:07:04] <andypugh> 760 reels od surface mount resistors. 1.3 million in total. Went for £30
[20:07:33] <L84Supper> all the same value? :)
[20:07:50] <archivist_emc> cheap, you could cut to smaller strips and resell on fleabay
[20:07:51] <andypugh> No, about 30 different values
[20:08:15] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[20:08:25] <andypugh> Yeah, I thought about that. 100,000 13 item lots...
[20:08:27] <L84Supper> would have been good if they were between the range of 5k-20k
[20:09:25] <tom3p> kabelschlepp is the word i learned, but it just mean cable carrier ( the verb 'to schlepp' )
[20:10:02] <tom3p> and theres loads of taiwan/chinese knockoffs of igus
[20:10:13] <andypugh> Mainly high and low values. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180434323364
[20:11:22] <L84Supper> nice values for the caps
[20:16:08] <andypugh> tom3p: You were talking cable chain?
[20:16:28] <tom3p> haha no kabelschlepp ( same thing )
[20:16:33] <andypugh> It's actually quite cheap from RS (who are normally horribly expensive)
[20:16:46] <tom3p> heres another 'energy chain'
[20:16:58] <numen> can anyone tell me an good highside driver?
[20:18:10] <L84Supper> numer : why don't you spend some time reading through app notes from the power FET manufacturers?
[20:18:48] <tom3p> numen, that chip wont drive another layer of amplification at a higher than 50 volts, it wont do it. its 50V max period cuz its wired that way internally. if you just want high side drivers for something else, look at international rectifier, they got lots.
[20:18:53] <andypugh> Igus chain, £12 per meter. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4868664
[20:19:29] <numen> tom3p i found a solution for using higher voltage
[20:19:42] <tom3p> then follow that solution, we dont know it
[20:20:28] <awallin> andypugh: are you sure that is not one link for 12gpb? :)
[20:20:32] <numen> tom3p im just looking for a driver ^^
[20:20:41] <andypugh> Yes, I used it on my lathe.
[20:20:42] <numen> the solution is in my brain ^^
[20:21:07] <awallin> hm it's just 15x16 in size?
[20:21:10] <awallin> mm
[20:21:16] <andypugh> Yes, 'tis the tiniest size.
[20:21:24] <andypugh> Bigger is spendier.
[20:21:39] <andypugh> Click the link at the top for other sizes
[20:22:06] <tom3p> numen: look at international rectifier for a device that meets the criteria of your solution
[20:22:11] <andypugh> I only needed room for stepper and encoder cables, so that size was fine.
[20:26:25] <awallin> I'm thinking flexible plastic/rubber tubing should work too
[20:26:33] <L84Supper> kids
[20:29:30] <andypugh> The chain is handy as it is self guiding.
[20:35:51] <tom3p> cheap trick: some cables had to follow X&Y on a large machine. I used fishing rod at corner, pointing straight up, the cables tied to it and ending at the head. no impairment and large travels ( 1.5x1x.8m) the commercial name is a 'spline'
[20:38:05] <tom3p> also, with these chains you need a pc for x and one for y and one for Z, the spline is xyz in one shot and less wire
[20:40:31] <danimal> anyone have experience with keling servos?
[20:41:16] <awallin> danimal: I'm thinking of getting the nema23 brushless servos
[20:41:35] <awallin> they are 59 on Keling's site and jon elson sells them for 120 with an encoder
[20:41:58] <awallin> not sure if the encoder could be had for less than 60, I looked at USdigital's site but they are pretty expensive
[20:42:32] <danimal> yea, they looked pretty cheap
[20:42:44] <danimal> i need a pretty big set
[20:43:05] <danimal> i hsve nema 43 steppers oon the machine now
[20:43:10] <awallin> incremental encoder with differential outputs and index pulse, for 6.35mm axle, anyone?
[20:43:20] <awallin> 1000ppr
[20:43:56] <awallin> for the mill we replaced nema34 steppers with nema34 dc servos (direct drive) works very well
[20:44:13] <awallin> for this lathe build I am doing there are 1:2 timing belts, so the smaller nema23 should be ok
[20:44:21] <danimal> i'm thinking nema 34 might be enough
[20:44:37] <danimal> what kind of mill?
[20:44:57] <awallin> it's a tuned Opti BF20
[20:45:20] <awallin> http://www.youtube.com/jmi80
[20:46:05] <awallin> http://www.youtube.com/aewallin#p/u/19/fx96sb3PPDw
[20:46:27] <awallin> http://www.youtube.com/aewallin#p/u/20/cJFXrI--YxQ
[20:46:51] <awallin> nema34 servos direct coupled to 2.5mm/rev ballscrews work well on that machine
[20:46:59] <awallin> they were from dan mauch/camtronics
[20:47:09] <awallin> that might be keling motors also?
[20:47:38] <danimal> nice
[20:48:22] <awallin> not sure which model it is but they seem to have 600-800ozin peak torque
[20:48:23] <danimal> i think my machine is alot bigger though, wonder how nema 34's would move it
[20:48:39] <awallin> do you have any gear reduction
[20:48:44] <danimal> no
[20:48:46] <awallin> and what is the lead on your ballscrews
[20:48:56] <danimal> .200"/rev
[20:49:22] <awallin> that is double what we have.
[20:49:47] <awallin> I think we could do 7500mm/min rapids if we really tried, but we normally use 5m/min
[20:49:55] <awallin> that maxes out the torque on the motors
[20:50:13] <danimal> i have a shizuoka, it's a good 5000lb machine
[20:50:15] <awallin> if your table is much heavier then you must accelerate quite slowly
[20:50:35] <tarzan> is keling the cheapest servo around?
[20:50:43] <danimal> seems to be
[20:51:05] <awallin> our motors seem to be 1.6Nm continuous torque
[20:51:33] <andypugh> There is an all-in-one solution that might be cheaper, but then you can't tune the drive in EMC
[20:52:25] <awallin> usdigital website is slooow
[20:53:49] <andypugh> http://www.dmm-tech.com/Pricing.html
[20:54:04] <awallin> hrm, base price is usd51 for a reasonable encoder from usdigital
[20:55:09] <dave_1> anyone used the logic function .... for a multi-input OR?
[20:56:36] <awallin> danimal: this is the mill-setup about two years ago http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/2007_11servos/servos.jpg
[20:57:45] <danimal> cool
[21:01:48] <andypugh> wierd, a few really cheap 1024 pulse encoders on eBay, in Australia.
[21:02:00] <andypugh> Which is almost no good at all to me.
[21:02:59] <awallin> 390095569391
[21:06:15] <andypugh> Is there an encoder in a CD drive?
[21:06:50] <andypugh> (It also occurs to me that you could make a cheap n-bit absolute encoder by carefully writing to a CD-R)
[21:08:33] <tom3p> i think alex joni or (fenn ?)did that using the kind of cds that can be printed on by the cd writer.
[21:09:12] <tom3p> since there isnt a lot of people doing it, i spose it wasnt all that effective a solution
[21:09:31] <andypugh> Seems you can use the motor itself as an encoder, but not a very good one by the looks of things.
[21:09:32] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/user/StashaMircho
[21:10:55] <tom3p> oh yeah , using steppers as low rez mpgs has been around on the net a while, again not so good for any speed or precision
[21:11:32] <andypugh> Seems you might as well drill some holes and use optos
[21:14:06] <tom3p> that thread is broken (about the cd spindle as encoder) :(
[21:14:49] <danimal> my local machinery mover has a bunch of fanuc servos and drives in stock
[21:15:14] <danimal> used
[21:15:26] <danimal> he wants like 300 each
[21:15:39] <danimal> but will give me some off if i buy a few
[21:15:48] <andypugh> They are cheaper on eBay..
[21:16:01] <danimal> yea i kinda thought they might be
[21:16:45] <tom3p> its good stuff ( red caps etc) but get the manuals and study before buying. fanuc is built to be controlled by fanuc.
[21:17:03] <andypugh> $200 each here, job lot of 18...
[21:17:07] <danimal> do they play nice with emc2 (system 0, 6, or 10)
[21:17:17] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/18-FANUC-SERVO-MOTORS-AO6B-1375-B390-OB41-14OF_W0QQitemZ270488118887
[21:17:49] <andypugh> All serious big ones though, like 18-22kW
[21:19:11] <dave_1> jon elson now has the stuff to handle red cap fanuc ... interesting coding of the shaft.
[21:20:16] <andypugh> Hmm, what's this? One axis?
[21:20:17] <dave_1> just enough different to make it unique
[21:20:18] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GE-Fanuc-Series-90-Micro-programmable-controller_W0QQitemZ160379741806
[22:01:35] <dave_1> exit
[22:03:35] <awallin> fail.
[22:15:36] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[22:16:58] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[22:34:31] <tom3p> on friday, many places thru us will have augen mini netbooks onsale for 120$ , might be of interest ( not for emc control but terminal )
[22:34:35] <tom3p> http://bfads.net/Netbook-Computer-at-Menards
[22:34:50] <tom3p> albertsons out west
[22:40:56] <alex_joni> any specs?
[22:42:07] <alex_joni> nm... CE on it
[22:42:29] <alex_joni> 533MHz proc.
[22:45:02] <ds3> anyone tried indexable EM's in the smaller machines?
[22:49:59] <awallin> 40mm face-mill
[22:50:10] <ds3> how big of a machine?
[22:50:12] <awallin> not good with 750W spindle, OKish with 1.5kW
[22:50:24] <ds3> Hmmm
[22:50:33] <tom3p> alex_joni: not sure of processor make, only heard it was risc
[22:50:39] <awallin> light cuts in alu, even lighter in steel
[22:50:39] <ds3> and all I was thinking about was a 0.75" indexable EM
[22:50:49] <awallin> that's probably very OK
[22:50:54] <ds3> but my spind is on the order of 500W
[22:51:20] <awallin> my friend was saying he want's smaller diameter carbide-insert cutters. cheaper in the long run compared to solid carbide
[22:51:43] <ds3> more repeatable if you manage to chip the cutter
[22:52:17] <ds3> I just wish someone made one in 3/8" shank...the 1/2" shank ones need work to be useable on the small machines
[22:53:54] <awallin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yft-aFfmvNo
[22:53:59] <awallin> mmm
[23:04:16] <L84Supper> alex_joni: it looks like it's a Mips Snapdragon, they sell tons in China
[23:05:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed before dreaming of dragons
[23:07:08] <andypugh> That's a serious miller I reckon...
[23:11:47] <DaViruz> anyone know of a PC104 supplier?
[23:12:00] <DaViruz> that list prices..
[23:12:01] <awallin> http://mesanet.com/
[23:12:30] <awallin> http://mesanet.com/prices.html
[23:12:56] <DaViruz> thanks, but i'm thinking more modern cpu modules
[23:13:07] <DaViruz> like atom boards and such
[23:14:16] <ds3> Kontron I think makes some
[23:15:13] <L84Supper> http://www.intelcommsalliance.com/kshowcase/view
[23:15:33] <tom3p> http://www.advantech.com/products/PC-104-Modules/sub_1-2JKLUR.aspx
[23:16:25] <DaViruz> L84Supper: wow, pretty nice search engine
[23:17:01] <L84Supper> http://www.pc104.org/products.php
[23:18:12] <L84Supper> http://www.pc104.org/products.php?keywords=atom
[23:19:22] <DaViruz> all very nice, but i'm looking for a retailer
[23:27:40] <DaViruz> oh, the mesa anything-io is available for pc104 too
[23:27:43] <DaViruz> that's really nice
[23:28:53] <ries> I se where the high latency comes from, at least from the fan controller... as soon as the computer changes fan speed, then my talency goes through the roof
[23:29:18] <awallin> bios setting?
[23:29:30] <ries> awallin: i8kctl fan 2 2
[23:29:44] <ries> I wonder if there is a setting to just turn the fan on, and leave it like that...
[23:30:37] <L84Supper> ries: laptop or atx motherboard
[23:31:27] <ries> L84Supper: craptop....
[23:31:40] <ries> @numen, I might have found a second hand computer here....
[23:32:02] <L84Supper> it's controlled by an embedded controller via ACPI
[23:32:24] <ries> L84Supper: I thought so already....