#emc | Logs for 2009-11-23

[00:52:52] <roh> hmm.. anybody a clue of spindle-drivers?
[00:53:10] <roh> i got this one: http://www.sh-belong.com/BC2000.htm
[00:53:30] <roh> works well, with manual pot. now i want to control it from emc
[00:53:55] <roh> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=cn&tl=en&u=http://www.sh-belong.com/BC2000.htm helps a bit, but i am at a loss when it comes to 'usual behaviour'
[00:54:09] <roh> does 0-10V override the pot?
[00:56:57] <eric_unterhausen> did you buy theoptional isolated input card?
[00:57:43] <roh> of course not. we got it with the mill
[00:57:52] <roh> the card doesnt seem to exist in the internetz
[00:58:19] <eric_unterhausen> peter homan know what to do with it?
[00:59:10] <roh> ive started drawing a schematic of the card, but its a lengthy process. i am that far that i can tell it is having 2 thyristors and 2 diodes making 'regulated dc' from the line-ac
[00:59:36] <eric_unterhausen> you just need to figure out which KB card it is a ripoff from
[00:59:39] <roh> the thyristors are driven via a small ring-transformer from what seems to be a oamp based analog circuit
[01:00:40] <roh> the pot which is connected to P 123 is fed with a z-diode regulated dc and has 3 extra trimmers, one for upper, one for lower boundary and one for 'accel' which is bridged by a diode and connected to I1
[01:00:55] <roh> I2, F2 are same potential.
[01:01:06] <roh> A- is F- via some shunt
[01:01:26] <roh> A+ is thytistor regulated '+
[01:01:36] <roh> F- is basically 'gnd'
[01:02:42] <roh> my current guess is: I1 and I2 are my '0-10V input' when i take care of the opto-isolation
[01:10:01] <L84Supper> anyone interested in adding the Howto on EMC2 with ArchLinux to the wiki? http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-arch
[01:12:55] <L84Supper> the Howto with recent versions of Ubuntu (9.04, 9.10 ..etc) is also at http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-ubuntu
[01:13:15] <BigJohnT> you can add it yourself... did you know
[01:13:29] <L84Supper> wiki access is public?
[01:13:35] <BigJohnT> yes
[01:13:41] <BigJohnT> user supported
[01:13:57] <L84Supper> no account necessary?
[01:14:48] <BigJohnT> read the basic steps link at the bottom of the main page
[01:15:11] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[01:15:28] <L84Supper> wow, and no problems with spammers
[01:16:14] <BigJohnT> we kill spammers with a laser beam from Michael
[01:16:50] <BigJohnT> or weld them to the floor with Alex
[01:18:00] <Valen> CnC em?
[01:18:02] <L84Supper> every other project I've ever worked on has only granted edit rights to trusted devs.
[01:19:19] <BigJohnT> wiki is community maintained
[01:19:54] <BigJohnT> yea, Valen we grind them to plasma dust
[01:24:41] <L84Supper> any suggestions on the simplest way to setup EMC to control 1 servo for position, I finally have some time to try a Mesa 7143 with HostMot2
[01:25:50] <BigJohnT> are you using dev or 2.3?
[01:26:04] <L84Supper> 2.3.4
[01:26:31] <BigJohnT> use one of the samples then
[01:26:37] <BigJohnT> and modify it
[01:26:46] <BigJohnT> to suit your needs
[01:28:03] <L84Supper> someone mentioned that I could just use HAL
[01:28:53] <BigJohnT> use a sample config then mod it to suit
[01:30:04] <roh> * roh measured I2 to I1 and gets 1.1-8.7V DC
[01:30:46] <L84Supper> yeah, it looks like I'll be stripping it down, I'm just looking for where I can enter values for position from another program for position
[01:31:31] <BigJohnT> I don't understand
[01:32:56] <L84Supper> I'd like to just send position info to EMC to move a motor , not a GUI front end with a user interface
[01:35:27] <eric_unterhausen> or you could use nml
[01:35:54] <L84Supper> I'm still trying to see how EMC connects to HostMot2, since the FPGA servo controller is doing all the encoder counting for position and ramping the servo +/- 10vdc
[01:36:33] <eric_unterhausen> hostmot2 is the interface to the fpga
[01:41:57] <Valen> hostmot2 basically just runs the encoders
[01:42:01] <Valen> and the PWM outputs
[01:42:15] <Valen> the "host" tells the FPGA what PWM rate to put out
[01:43:55] <roh> how is a spindle usually wired?
[01:44:11] <Valen> with copper
[01:44:13] <roh> i mean how does manual userinterface and pwm control 'interact'
[01:44:15] <Valen> ;-P
[01:44:33] <roh> whats overriding what and how do you wire it?
[01:44:34] <Valen> I think most spindles have some kind of square wave input
[01:45:17] <Valen> you would typically I'd image do all the setup on the VFD then let the VFD take the input from the PWM line
[01:45:20] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.homanndesigns.com/ check this guy out
[01:45:41] <eric_unterhausen> roh has a dc motor
[01:45:44] <L84Supper> valen: so what is actually controlling the ramp for the PWM output?
[01:45:51] <Valen> the host
[01:45:57] <Valen> HAL/emc etc
[01:46:01] <L84Supper> host = EMC2?
[01:46:03] <roh> i am reverse-engineering our controller currently and still not sure how i want to make it 'being used'
[01:46:04] <eric_unterhausen> emc tells hostmot2
[01:46:07] <L84Supper> ok
[01:46:41] <roh> eric_unterhausen i've seen that stuff, but will propably brew something up myself
[01:47:40] <eric_unterhausen> roh, he has already done what you want to do, you could try to understand what he is doing
[01:48:29] <L84Supper> I wasn't sure if EMC just set vales in the fpga so that it would compute the ramp up and down itself
[01:48:58] <roh> eric_unterhausen i know. but buying anything from the us is more pain than soldering smd by hand for a year.
[01:49:10] <Valen> no that is another mode that is possible with mesa stuff
[01:49:11] <roh> eric_unterhausen so i wouldnt buy it even if its 10$
[01:49:11] <eric_unterhausen> he's in australia
[01:49:15] <Valen> but emc doesn't use it
[01:49:24] <roh> eric_unterhausen doesnt matter.. same shit money-wise
[01:49:26] <Valen> yeah, australians are awesome
[01:49:49] <Valen> ;->
[01:50:51] <roh> eric_unterhausen nothing against the guy, but buying anything from outside europe isnt going to happen if there is not a _extremely_ good reason
[01:52:08] <roh> eric_unterhausen sometimes it really feels like somebody is trying to make me not buy stuff from overseas ;)
[01:55:05] <Valen> whats wrong with buying from australia?
[01:55:05] <Valen> we know the rest of the world exists
[01:55:05] <roh> raster eric_unterhausen what i dont get from the descriptions is: why 10 models, if nearly all do exactly the same?
[01:55:33] <eric_unterhausen> I don't know about that , but it seems like you would want the most expensive one for some reason
[01:55:43] <roh> Valen sure, australia is less hassle than the us, the uk, or americas in general, but shipping is expensive and or takes ages and moving mones isnt exactly fun.
[01:56:10] <roh> Valen i have neither creditcard, nor paypal, and am not planning to change that soon.
[01:57:02] <roh> Valen moving money within europe (which excludes UK) is joy compared to what ive had in other experiences.
[01:58:20] <roh> ordering in europe as b2b usually means i have the stuff 24-48h later, and the money transfer doesnt cost a cent. with asia i have experiences with like 12E booking fees
[01:59:01] <roh> my beagleboard from the us never arrived since of some braindead export crap... i think they must have confused it with WMD or so
[01:59:07] <Valen> normally you should be able to do a bank to bank transfer for about 2-3% fee on the exchange rate
[01:59:43] <roh> Valen the bank already earns from having the money either on the start or the end of the transaction for some time. so there is no reason for transfer fees.
[01:59:57] <Valen> thats a nice world that you live in
[02:00:05] <L84Supper> roh: were you working on the port of EMC to ARM?
[02:00:20] <roh> L84Supper nope, but i am happy when it does one day.
[02:00:34] <roh> Valen well.. its the law afaik
[02:00:54] <Valen> thats not a transfer fee its a currency conversion fee
[02:01:00] <roh> Valen when using IBAN/BIC transfer codes any money-order withing europe shall be free of charge
[02:01:16] <roh> and conversion isnt an issue since its all euro
[02:02:56] <roh> remark that i exccluded uk.. they really do not want to trade. its so evil that one couldnt even sell them something fairly since they seem to have no way of transfering money without extreme fees (like 9E or so per transaction)
[02:04:08] <roh> also its difficult to get a proper invoice which your tax-office likes ;)
[02:27:42] <tlab2> tlab2 is now known as tlab
[02:40:06] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, ho
[02:40:21] <Jymmm> yo
[02:40:47] <LawrenceG> sorry about yesterday... got real hectic here and I had to go out
[02:40:54] <Jymmm> ah
[02:41:12] <LawrenceG> that kit link you sent looks interesting
[02:42:33] <Jymmm> Yeah, would like to simplify it to a ref and clock
[02:43:28] <LawrenceG> I still think using a 5328a as a base is good.... it gives you the case, power supply, 10mhz oven oscillator and a nice piece of test gear
[02:43:48] <Jymmm> why a counter?
[02:44:04] <LawrenceG> just add gps correction to the counter internal reference
[02:44:38] <Jymmm> how much are they?
[02:44:54] <LawrenceG> well... you probably need a counter anyway and they have very stable 10,hz osc...... about $25 on epay
[02:45:34] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-5328A-Universal-Counter-w-option-031-to-1-3GHz_W0QQitemZ320449907049QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9c4d8969
[02:45:36] <Jymmm> for a 5328a?
[02:45:58] <LawrenceG> that one has the 1.3ghz channel c option
[02:47:17] <LawrenceG> add you ardinio and a gps module
[02:47:28] <LawrenceG> s/you/your/
[02:47:42] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I dont know, take sthe fun out of it, and makes you dependant upon HP availability
[02:49:47] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-5328A-Universal-Counter-W-Option-020-3475_W0QQitemZ320443853058QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9bf12902
[02:50:11] <LawrenceG> that one has the volt meter option, but no channel C... only counts to 100mhz
[02:51:36] <Jymmm> untested
[02:51:39] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-Agilent-5328A-010-130-Universal-Counter-W-010-130_W0QQitemZ140359534937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae148959
[02:51:51] <LawrenceG> the above guy likes them a lot!
[02:52:03] <Jymmm> $555
[02:52:42] <LawrenceG> hey... thats why I bought several and only use one on the bench... cheap spare parts
[02:53:43] <Jymmm> ok, not to be a smartass but what else could I use the counter for?
[02:54:11] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-5328A-UNIVERSAL-COUNTER-0_W0QQitemZ230387676026QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a42cf37a
[02:54:18] <LawrenceG> 30day return
[02:54:23] <Jymmm> FUCK I hate when ppl make the website so big on ebay!
[02:54:23] <L84Supper> http://www.linuxcnc.org/images/stories/EMC_Control_LG.gif why did I just find this now?
[02:55:03] <Jymmm> ... and the text jsut doens't wrap
[02:55:09] <Jymmm> damn CSS bullshit!
[02:56:05] <LawrenceG> I am sure CSS stands for something rude
[02:56:23] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Yes it does... Cascading Style Sheets
[02:56:40] <LawrenceG> that wasnt what I was thinking!
[02:56:44] <Jymmm> and the idoiots that dont know how to use them properly!
[02:57:11] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: and sloe your a55 down on the links, I'm still reading the first one =)
[02:58:10] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: ok =)
[02:58:23] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I'm gong to say no on the counter.
[02:59:19] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: It's nice and all, but what I was thinking is it might be nice to turn this intp a nice lil project others could be for a reasonable price and without depenancy on something specific
[02:59:26] <LawrenceG> hey..... you are lucky... half those guys wont ship to Canada... it must be too hard to spell
[02:59:51] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: waiting in line for customs form processing.
[03:00:15] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: But if there's something you need, I'll take care of you.
[03:00:50] <LawrenceG> I was cruising the Usps site today and they have all the shipping and customs forms online for priority international mail
[03:01:10] <LawrenceG> even a $5 discount if you do it online
[03:01:20] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Right, but you have to get in line to send the package
[03:01:36] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: you can't just leave it with normal mail
[03:02:42] <LawrenceG> hmmm could be..... they probably want to check your id before they will accept the package
[03:03:52] <Jymmm> No, just must take all international packages to post office
[03:04:10] <Jymmm> anyway.... back to ref project =)
[03:06:18] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: One issue I've come across is how to get a remote GPS antenna that has 100 feet back to the GPS itself.
[03:06:36] <Jymmm> without degrading the signal
[03:08:13] <LawrenceG> that is a challenge ... I have 1 antenna with a 20' lead..... probably better to remote the gps and the antenna... I wonder if a bluetooth module would be good for beaming data around (serial data)
[03:08:37] <Jymmm> Need the PPS signal
[03:10:08] <LawrenceG> does ardiniio have bluetooth? yea... I guess you have to have your lab withing 20' of a view of the sky... attic??
[03:10:44] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I really would want to use a transmitter on a refernece if oyu know what I mean
[03:12:51] <LawrenceG> I have thought of using mine as a reference for the rig, but there are several rig xtals that would have to be replaced with synthesized signals, and the phase noise will get bad in a hurry
[03:13:59] <LawrenceG> could be good with an SDR project
[03:14:41] <LawrenceG> then you need the sound card ref locked to the standard
[03:15:09] <Jymmm> Maybe, but my intensions are to have a stand alone box. to external dependancies
[03:16:20] <cradek> ha, I just made a pcb on jr
[03:16:30] <cradek> so silly to see it drilling with a .020 drill
[03:16:34] <LawrenceG> yay
[03:16:54] <Jymmm> poor kid
[03:17:45] <cradek> ha, don't tell me your machines don't have names
[03:18:51] <Valen> ours is milly
[03:18:56] <LawrenceG> cradek, hope you balanced that 0.020"drill dont want jr to hop across the shop
[03:19:34] <LawrenceG> what is the top spindle speed on jr?
[03:19:45] <cradek> only 6000
[03:20:13] <LawrenceG> better than the 3000 I have on the shoptask
[03:20:59] <cradek> yeah the bp is about that - makes small tools less fun
[03:21:15] <LawrenceG> pcb's are slow to make when the spindle is so slow.... I mill about 3 or 4 "/min
[03:21:16] <cradek> for doing pcbs you really need 20-40k...
[03:22:12] <LawrenceG> bumping up the feedrate by 10x would be quite noticeable!
[03:23:12] <cradek> yeah that would be very nice
[03:23:39] <roh> heh..thats why we bought the proxxon
[03:25:01] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.ca/view/RRFIsDw.html ... my next plexi machining project... side lit with leds's and a small rear piece mounted on a stepper to display antenna headings
[03:26:39] <cradek> that sure looks cool
[03:26:39] <Jymmm> that's a lot of math
[03:27:11] <LawrenceG> it should look cool
[03:29:22] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: is that the artwork you are going to use?
[03:29:44] <Valen> bags not writing the gcode for that by hand
[03:30:40] <LawrenceG> yes... it imports nicely into vcarve... I have a script that will generate the map for any co-ordinates....
[03:31:05] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: If you want vector art, let me know.
[03:32:01] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: what size stepper?
[03:33:38] <LawrenceG> http://filebin.ca/nsaajs/map1.ngc I have the vector art, but converting it to gcode loses the line width info.... vcarve cuts it from the png preserving the line width
[03:34:16] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: ah
[03:34:23] <LawrenceG> 47572 lines
[03:34:28] <LawrenceG> of gcode
[03:34:40] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: See PM
[03:36:39] <L84Supper> ok added HOWTO for EMC2 on 9.04 and 9.10 plus ArchLinux to the wiki
[03:37:22] <LawrenceG> L84Supper, thankyou... that stuff can be a pain to figure out
[03:39:09] <L84Supper> no problem, we suffered through it a couple of weeks ago
[03:39:48] <L84Supper> now I just have to master EMC itself :)
[03:43:54] <cradek> I guess I need a couple more 1/8 ER40 collets...
[03:57:22] <LawrenceG> cradek, I bought a http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220431098460&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:ca ... maybe build a spindle from it
[03:57:46] <LawrenceG> er11 collets will be a lot cheaper than er40's
[03:58:58] <cradek> cool
[04:00:21] <LawrenceG> there is another listing that included a set of collets
[04:00:27] <LawrenceG> looking
[04:02:10] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110432317758 this was the one I bought..... would work nicely in jr
[04:03:00] <LawrenceG> cradek, price is hard to beat
[04:03:17] <cradek> very true
[04:03:44] <cradek> thanks for the pointers
[04:03:58] <LawrenceG> maybe the guy would sell it with 9 1/8 collets
[04:05:21] <DaViruz> why would you want multiples of ER collets?
[04:05:45] <cradek> I have several chucks and sometimes want to use several 1/8" tools
[04:05:58] <DaViruz> oh, ok
[04:07:51] <LawrenceG> I mostly use 3 tools for pcb's.... a #63 drill, a 60degree vbit and a 0.1" rasp for cutouts
[04:22:57] <roh> hm... how is direction usually switched? relay?
[04:36:26] <L84Supper> LawrenceG : do you etch or mill the PCB traces?
[04:38:34] <cradek> since he says 60 degree V bit, he definitely mills the traces
[04:39:06] <coldelectrons> Learning curves suck
[04:39:24] <coldelectrons> I'm trying to program in C :/
[04:39:57] <cradek> I feel that way when I try to use any language but C
[04:40:03] <cradek> <- old dog
[04:40:29] <coldelectrons> Well, my current problem is deciphering a compiler error
[04:41:00] <coldelectrons> "error: expected ')' before ';' token"
[04:41:52] <cradek> sometimes those mean just what they say, and you can fix it on the line it gives. other times, the error is earlier in the file and it finally got suitably confused at the given line
[04:52:17] <roh> hm. you you all use vfd or how do you wire up your spindles?
[04:52:41] <roh> do you still have 'manual control' or just a 'power switch' and let the pc controll it all the time?
[04:53:10] <roh> fighting paper on planning how to wire up the relais and or which ones to use/get
[05:00:52] <cradek> spindle on/off under computer control and a manual speed control knob is just fine for a mill
[05:01:08] <cradek> for a lathe you really want full speed control for CSS
[05:01:37] <cradek> well manual speed control is fine for a manual tool change machine - if you have a tool changer, you sure want cnc speed control
[05:02:52] <roh> it would be easy to make it pure 'automatic use' XOR 'manual use' .. but here we need both
[05:03:21] <roh> thats what makes it complicated right now
[05:16:16] <coldelectrons> Well, my test code works - at least well enough to determine that I have a hardware problem :/
[05:17:24] <coldelectrons> The 74ALS573 I'm using is either fried or too slow - the datasheets say to use a 74AHC573
[05:30:22] <L84Supper> coldelectrons : how fast a switching sped do you need?
[05:30:32] <L84Supper> speed even
[05:33:44] <coldelectrons> L84Supper: I'm trying to use the external memory bus feature of an AVR atmega1280, and it's clocked at 16MHz
[05:38:06] <L84Supper> AHC is only a couple ns faster than ALS typically and they are both suitable for 16MHz
[05:39:07] <coldelectrons> I just found one bug in my breadboarding - I forgot to enable the latches' output XD
[05:39:25] <L84Supper> that will do it
[05:39:37] <L84Supper> was is floating?
[05:40:23] <coldelectrons> Yes, I tied it to low
[06:35:01] <MrSunshine_> i want to get emc2 just for simulation on this computer ... but i dont get the git stuff on this page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git
[06:35:10] <MrSunshine_> do i first have to check out the latest branch THEN go over to 2.3.3 ?
[06:36:19] <L84Supper> you can checkout any version you wish
[06:36:31] <MrSunshine_> but i dont know how to work git ..
[06:36:36] <MrSunshine_> so HOW do i check out any verison i wish
[06:36:43] <MrSunshine_> what is the exact line to check out release 2.3.3 ?
[06:38:11] <MrSunshine_> maybe dont even need to use git :P
[06:38:20] <L84Supper> git checkout RELEASE_2_3_3
[06:38:38] <MrSunshine_> yes i do ...
[06:38:59] <MrSunshine_> L84Supper, ye, biut cant just write that ... how does it know the server? :)
[06:42:03] <L84Supper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git has all the steps
[06:42:42] <Neo_The_User> MrSunshine_, make sure you are in the source directory for emc2 e.g. /home/sunshine/emc2
[06:43:34] <MrSunshine_> L84Supper, but if i do the "first step" git clone git://git.linuxcnc.org/git/emc2.git emc2-dev downloads the head of the source doe right ?
[06:43:35] <MrSunshine_> code
[06:43:48] <Neo_The_User> Yes.
[06:44:01] <MrSunshine_> so i need to download the head first then convert that to a branch ?
[06:44:05] <MrSunshine_> feels a bit stupid :P
[06:44:17] <Neo_The_User> yes exactly
[06:44:19] <MrSunshine_> but then again, never liked git nor understood it
[06:47:34] <Neo_The_User> I tend to avoid anything but git.
[07:15:26] <MrSunshine__> http://pici.se/505814/?size=fullsize that doesnt look quite right at the bottom there does it? :/
[07:16:52] <awallin> no
[07:17:11] <awallin> probalby libarea or smth that generates that path?
[07:18:52] <MrSunshine__> dunno .. i guess so :)
[07:21:24] <MrSunshine__> its a damns tupid place to start at atleast :P
[07:22:19] <celeron55_> set the start and end points elsewhere
[07:23:14] <L84Supper> it's not elegant but it's easier to control my servo position through generating GCODE than talking directly to EMCTASK with NML
[07:24:12] <MrSunshine__> celeron55_, well ... then i get huge circles all over the place :P
[07:24:17] <MrSunshine__> however i try and change the values :P
[07:24:53] <celeron55_> you also could try to disable the start and end curves
[07:25:18] <celeron55_> ...or something, i don't like the way the profiling operation works anyway
[07:26:56] <MrSunshine__> changed rolloff to 0 and it looks better atleast
[07:28:22] <MrSunshine__> what are those roll off stuff and that good for ?
[07:34:37] <MrSunshine__> anyone familiar with heeks ? ... i have a sketch .. and i want to zigzag it .. but it says i have no solids ... wtf to do? :)
[09:21:57] <Jymmm> bi-directional opto... http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=A10351
[09:51:59] <alex_joni> Jymmm: not bi-directional in that sense
[09:52:19] <Jymmm> pants on fire
[09:52:25] <Jymmm> yors that is
[09:52:33] <alex_joni> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/motorola/H11AA2.pdf
[09:52:56] <alex_joni> they mean you can apply forward or reverse voltage to one side, and the other side gets triggered
[09:53:14] <alex_joni> but you can't connect it to a parport for example and use it as input or output without rewiring
[09:53:25] <Jymmm> liar
[09:53:31] <Jymmm> the datasheet lies too!
[09:53:42] <Jymmm> it's a conspiracy I tell ya!
[09:54:11] <alex_joni> I'm sure it is
[09:54:14] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Well, it was almost a nice find =)
[09:58:11] <alex_joni> almost :D
[09:59:05] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Gonna get a few of these though... http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16267
[10:00:07] <alex_joni> did you look at switch life?
[10:00:17] <Jymmm> no. why?
[10:00:19] <alex_joni> datasheet says 15000 operations min.
[10:00:23] <alex_joni> that's 1000 rotations
[10:00:53] <alex_joni> rotation life: 15000 T min (no idea what T means)
[10:00:55] <alex_joni> turns maybe
[10:01:02] <Jymmm> yeah
[10:01:08] <archivist> domestic use crap
[10:01:11] <alex_joni> probably more than enough if you turn it by hand
[10:01:21] <alex_joni> but surely not ok if you plan to use it as an encoder
[10:01:34] <Jymmm> no, no, just as a control.
[10:01:46] <alex_joni> then it's probably fine
[10:02:05] <alex_joni> otherwise you'll replace it every other hour
[10:02:26] <Jymmm> * Jymmm wants to build this http://www.hanssummers.com/images/stories/gpsref/circuit/circuit.gif
[10:03:39] <alex_joni> the power supply part is pretty stupid
[10:03:54] <Jymmm> why do you say that?
[10:04:13] <alex_joni> there's a 5V regulator powered from a 8V regulator, powered from a 12V regulator?
[10:05:14] <alex_joni> and another 5V regulator powered directly from the 12V regulator
[10:06:01] <alex_joni> I'm not saying it won't work..
[10:07:12] <MrSunshine__> well if they want 12V, 8V and 5V
[10:07:14] <MrSunshine__> its not htat stupid :P
[10:07:22] <MrSunshine__> more then that they waste the power that the 8V can give
[10:07:44] <Jymmm> I think it's for added regulation
[10:08:24] <Jymmm> There's also a 7803 not on that schematic
[10:11:10] <alex_joni> MrSunshine__: sure it is
[10:11:19] <alex_joni> there are 5V regulators you can plug into 40V
[10:11:25] <alex_joni> no need to use the 12V one
[10:11:42] <alex_joni> you only get higher consumption on the 12V one
[10:11:50] <alex_joni> and you add the convertion losses
[10:12:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I think it's for added regulation
[10:12:34] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I doubt it helps
[10:12:55] <alex_joni> anyways.. I used the same thing in the past 7812->7805 and it wasn't optimal
[10:15:22] <Jymmm> I'll email and ask him. i am a little curious myself why he went that route. more so why he used two 7805's
[10:16:31] <celeron55_> well, if you take lots of current from the 5V linear regulator you might want to use 12V for it rather than something higher to spread the heating of the regulators
[10:17:03] <archivist> see added series R to one 5v reg
[10:17:21] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:17:27] <Jymmm> archivist: what?
[10:17:49] <celeron55_> archivist: yes, that looks strange
[10:17:50] <archivist> two 39 ohm in parallel
[10:18:13] <Jymmm> archivist: where do you see that?
[10:18:23] <Jymmm> oh, I see it now
[10:18:40] <celeron55_> why does one want to use inductors in regulating 5V for an AVR
[10:18:46] <celeron55_> seems quite overkill
[10:18:52] <archivist> I would tend to say the guy is a nut with his regulation
[10:19:00] <celeron55_> yes, very
[10:19:13] <Jymmm> No, it's a reference
[10:19:30] <celeron55_> i've used avr's with 7805's even without any capacitors and they work well (though that's not very clever either)
[10:20:00] <archivist> 7805 is a poor reference
[10:20:14] <Jymmm> not voltage, time
[10:21:09] <Jymmm> But even so... why would he use different caps on the 7805's
[10:21:47] <archivist> he has no clue
[10:22:20] <Jymmm> Well, i woudn't say that... http://www.hanssummers.com/gpsref.html
[10:22:43] <celeron55_> what is that circuit used for
[10:22:57] <Jymmm> Just builds a LOT of stuff by hand
[10:23:04] <Jymmm> celeron55_: see link
[10:24:06] <archivist> I see errors in the control of the ocxo
[10:25:26] <Jymmm> oh, he does explain it... I found it wasn't capable of supplying much current and in any case, the microcontroller ins't supposed to like a supply voltage as high as 6V. Instead, I powered the microcontroller off its own separate triple-regulated chain, consisting of +12V -> +8V -> +5V. The +5V supply to the microcontroller was then further filtered. Probably overkill, but should ensure a really stable noise-free supply voltage to the microcon
[10:25:28] <Jymmm> troller, which is important because it will determine the stability of the pulse width modulation (PWM) output which I use to control the OCXO frequency.
[10:26:52] <MOGLI> hello anyone knows how to get the current position as variable in EMC2 GCODE??
[10:28:25] <archivist> MOGLI, I tend to maintain a variable of my own
[10:30:04] <Jymmm> archivist: what do you see with the OCXO ?
[10:31:23] <archivist> Jymmm, low value R there will be a pwm rate modulation on the signal
[10:31:55] <Jymmm> archivist: That's exactly what he's doing
[10:32:06] <Jymmm> using PWM to control the OCXO
[10:32:13] <archivist> thats bad
[10:32:20] <MOGLI> but how you maintain variable??
[10:32:26] <archivist> should be using a d-a
[10:32:49] <archivist> MOGLI, set it to a value at the start of the routine
[10:33:07] <MOGLI> archivist: i mean to say my gcode is in absolute position with the center of 0 0 0 and i want to start cutting from any position you get my point???
[10:34:46] <archivist> MOGLI, O lot of us have relative moves in the subroutine and out side we move to x,y etc
[10:36:31] <archivist> I think you are really asking about the touch off at the start of your program
[10:36:33] <MOGLI> archivist: ok got your point.. i should use relative moves.. but now the problem is whenever i want to Re-start program than i need start point positions
[11:09:25] <alex_joni> you can use G53 G0 x,y,z<abs pos>
[12:57:31] <jthornton> any PHP programmers around?
[12:58:59] <jthornton> * jthornton finds a php channel :)
[13:06:42] <archivist> ##php
[13:19:44] <archivist> xml parsing can be "fun"
[13:29:38] <MattyMob> my first thought was "why tie myself to an XML lib" but then you find you're reinventing a wheel
[13:30:07] <MattyMob> libxml2 is my current choice
[13:30:57] <MattyMob> one is pretty much like another :)
[13:31:27] <MattyMob> once you've loaded it, it's just a tree
[13:42:36] <jthornton> archivist I'm still trying to get to the XML parsing part :)
[13:43:10] <MattyMob> btw libxml2 is C, not php afaik
[13:44:05] <gweepprefect> there are wrappers for various languages, i'm not sure about php though
[13:44:11] <MattyMob> it may have a C++ version too, but I wouldn't know about that either :)
[13:44:14] <gweepprefect> i've used the C++ wrapper
[13:44:16] <archivist> not working ? <Viper-7> $doc = new DOMDocument(); $doc->load('http://example.com/somefile.ext');
[14:02:04] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:13:52] <jthornton> archivist I'll have to test it this evening I'moff to work now :)
[14:14:01] <archivist> ok
[14:18:01] <piasdom> G01 F#14 Z[0-#5]...what does the [o-#5] mean? does it mean z will move from 0 to #5 or will z go to #1..#2...#3.......?
[14:18:34] <cradek> [o-#5] is a syntax error
[14:18:47] <cradek> [0-#5] means zero minus the value in variable 5
[14:19:10] <piasdom> that's what's in the file mpictor sent
[14:19:22] <piasdom> it works
[14:19:51] <cradek> you can read about expressions here http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_overview.html#sub:Expressions
[14:19:58] <piasdom> #5 = .06
[14:20:44] <piasdom> cradek; thanks
[14:33:18] <MattyMob> I'm tempted to cantilever my X. It may be easier than putting a belt between the Z sfor insurance
[14:34:28] <MattyMob> and I'd get a free 20 deg of B axis
[14:35:41] <MattyMob> and there's fewer jamming worries if the 2 Zs aren't perfectly aligned
[15:33:54] <piasdom> ok i understand the minus sign...but why would i write that instead of g01 f#14 z[-#5] ?
[15:36:38] <MattyMob> crappy parsers. emc may handle it but old machines may not
[15:37:49] <piasdom> MattyMob; Thanks
[15:43:41] <MrSunshine_> gah, i need a face milling program! =)
[15:43:48] <MrSunshine_> just a zigzag over a given face area
[15:44:24] <archivist> MrSunshine_, write the gcode
[15:44:38] <MrSunshine_> bit its lots of lines :P
[15:44:53] <archivist> no its very few lines
[15:45:33] <archivist> use a subroutine and iterate
[15:46:46] <MattyMob> simple loop would do, you move one axis at a time, Shirley
[15:47:10] <archivist> dont call me Shirley
[15:47:27] <MattyMob> left, right, shuffle forwards, repeat
[15:47:41] <MattyMob> </disco>
[15:57:18] <skunkworks_> my wifes name is shirley... She still has not made it though the whole airplane movie.
[16:01:38] <JT-Work> its a good thing you can get the RK Suppressors with a quantity discount :/
[16:27:42] <numen> hi
[17:43:25] <Guest880> Does the difference between coarse-pos-cmd and joint-pos-fb give f-error?
[17:50:52] <eric_unterhause1> Guest880 that doesn't look quite right to me, but are you having following errors?
[17:54:45] <xkurtx> Hello?
[17:56:07] <Neo_The_User> Hi!
[17:56:15] <Guest880> eric No, just playing with servo tuning, but I'm not sure if I'm interpreting halscope correctly
[17:56:23] <xkurtx> hi there
[17:56:41] <xkurtx> I go to this website linuxcnc.org I wonder which I should download?
[17:57:05] <xkurtx> the 6.06 or the 8.04
[17:57:22] <eric_unterhause1> xkurtx, probably the 8.04
[17:57:37] <Neo_The_User> I would go with 8.04
[17:57:40] <xkurtx> eric_unterhause1 OK I give that a try thank you.
[17:57:55] <xkurtx> why are there two though?
[17:58:13] <Neo_The_User> http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj13-i386.iso
[17:58:22] <Neo_The_User> That iso has emc included
[17:58:31] <xkurtx> yes that is what I want
[17:58:39] <eric_unterhause1> I don't really know, some older version might work better on older comps
[17:58:49] <Neo_The_User> There are two because only the LTS releases are officially supported.
[17:58:51] <eric_unterhause1> but I don't think that 6.06 would help with that
[17:58:56] <xkurtx> yes I have an older computer I wish to try the program on
[17:59:07] <Neo_The_User> 8.04 is suitable for old pcs
[17:59:18] <xkurtx> Neo that is good
[17:59:25] <Neo_The_User> Everything is still i486. It's not like i686 like archlinux.
[18:00:56] <xkurtx> I have a Pentium III 500
[18:01:07] <xkurtx> emc will work on it?
[18:01:27] <Neo_The_User> That is i686 :)
[18:01:28] <eric_unterhause1> it's hard to know. It should
[18:01:43] <xkurtx> eric yes that is why I must try it out
[18:01:47] <Neo_The_User> It should since your architecture supports it.
[18:01:50] <eric_unterhause1> I have a PIII that I couldn't get the latency down
[18:02:06] <eric_unterhause1> depends on the bios
[18:02:07] <xkurtx> eric so only way to know is try and see?
[18:02:13] <eric_unterhause1> yes
[18:02:27] <xkurtx> eric yes thank you what I thought but I did not know.
[18:02:27] <eric_unterhause1> make sure to follow the wiki on reducing latency
[18:02:38] <xkurtx> eric wiki?
[18:02:47] <MattyMob> eric, was that w a matrox gfx?
[18:03:14] <eric_unterhause1> I tried a matrox
[18:03:42] <eric_unterhause1> pretty sure it was the bios
[18:03:49] <MattyMob> so it's not a universal cure then
[18:03:57] <eric_unterhause1> no
[18:04:05] <eric_unterhause1> it was a later pIII
[18:04:29] <xkurtx> I probably need to see if I can find a better PC
[18:04:52] <eric_unterhause1> if you are doing software stepping you probably do
[18:05:06] <eric_unterhause1> but the early P4 are not good candidates usually
[18:05:30] <xkurtx> eric my motor drivers are step and direction is that software stepping?
[18:05:37] <eric_unterhause1> yes
[18:05:43] <Neo_The_User> xkurtx, keep in mind that I have a 2.2 GHz CPU and a Radeon 4650 PCI E 2.0 and my latency is around 60,000
[18:06:04] <Neo_The_User> unless I am writing /dev/null to /dev/zero :P
[18:06:06] <xkurtx> Neo I am not sure if that is good or bad
[18:06:14] <Neo_The_User> It's pretty bad.
[18:06:16] <eric_unterhause1> Neo_The_User: that's not very good
[18:06:29] <Neo_The_User> I'm not using emc on this computer anyway so it's ok
[18:06:46] <eric_unterhause1> my desktop has really good latency, but I'm not hooking it up to the mill
[18:06:51] <Neo_The_User> and I know a quick fix! sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null
[18:07:08] <xkurtx> yes i have a better PC but it is not for machine
[18:07:28] <eric_unterhause1> my last desktop is going on the mill, worst case latency was 12000
[18:07:34] <xkurtx> now I worry this will not work for me
[18:07:44] <eric_unterhause1> you can try it
[18:07:54] <eric_unterhause1> there are a lot of PIII that will do fine
[18:07:58] <xkurtx> eric yes I will try and see
[18:08:06] <xkurtx> eric that is great news!
[18:08:21] <xkurtx> I can only hope mine is one of those
[18:08:23] <eric_unterhause1> Intel started goofing around with their architecture, and made real time a lot harder at the p4 generation
[18:08:32] <MattyMob> worst case is you won't be able to use your machine full speed
[18:08:36] <eric_unterhause1> things seem to be getting better
[18:08:54] <xkurtx> so Intel P4 not so good?
[18:08:54] <eric_unterhause1> the Intel Atom seems to be able to do real time
[18:09:05] <xkurtx> how AMD?
[18:09:14] <eric_unterhause1> I've had good luck with AMD
[18:09:18] <Neo_The_User> on my athlon 1800 its really god
[18:09:23] <Neo_The_User> *good
[18:09:25] <xkurtx> eric yes luck is what I need.