#emc | Logs for 2009-11-21

[01:14:08] <fenn> how do they get those groovy colors on the multifix tool holders?
[01:16:36] <fenn> awallin: tool on back upside down (in tension) is stronger
[01:17:44] <fenn> awallin: "groz" style toolpost looks pretty easy to make: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/v.ford/gt.htm
[01:18:09] <fenn> if you make your own you get an infinite supply of tool holders
[02:02:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-TDS210-TDS-210-Digital-Oscilloscope-Probe-C_W0QQitemZ350280164986QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item518e53267a
[02:05:08] <SWPadnos> that's not bad
[02:05:45] <SWPadnos> not enough channels for real work, but still :)
[03:06:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Dude, I'm gonna kick your ass come April!
[03:07:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You gotta help me out here, I'm not inventing a Y Flux capacitor v2.0
[03:07:16] <SWPadnos> Y not?
[03:07:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: If it's a Spectrum Analyzer, ok
[03:07:38] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: B cause
[03:07:50] <SWPadnos> r u sure?
[03:08:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I want to make a reference. then a CW transmitter.
[03:09:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: not exactly like this, but sorta kinda.... http://www.hanssummers.com/gpsref.html
[03:11:00] <SWPadnos> most spectrum analyzers, even relatively expensive ones, are only good to ~10 PPM
[03:11:37] <SWPadnos> and almost no scopes are that accurate with timing, unless they're (a) very fast scopes (1 GHz or higher bandwidth), or they have an obscenely expensive precision frequency reference
[03:11:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It's would be for playing with antennas
[03:11:57] <Jymmm> the SA that is.
[03:12:03] <SWPadnos> you probably need a network analyzer for that, not a spectrum analyzer
[03:12:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: an antenna anaylyzer
[03:12:26] <SWPadnos> a network analyzer
[03:12:40] <Jymmm> but I think a SA would be more generic
[03:12:42] <SWPadnos> like, networks of components, not networks of computers
[03:12:49] <SWPadnos> yeah, but it won't work for antenna testing
[03:13:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, that's WAY down the road.
[03:13:16] <Jymmm> REF
[03:13:18] <Jymmm> now
[03:13:30] <Jymmm> pay later
[03:13:38] <SWPadnos> a spectrum analyzer analyzes the spectrum of the input signal, a network analyzer outputs a signal and analyzes how that signal is changed by what's attached
[03:13:53] <SWPadnos> to do SWR measurements, I'm pretty sure you need a network analyzer
[03:14:07] <SWPadnos> and SWR is a "big thing" for antenna design
[03:14:29] <Jymmm> 499 swr meter, will buy ust after cw transmitter is to be built
[03:14:32] <Jymmm> $99
[03:14:46] <Jymmm> Need REFERNCE
[03:14:50] <SWPadnos> suer
[03:14:52] <SWPadnos> re
[03:14:56] <Jymmm> to build cw transmitter
[03:15:08] <Jymmm> and eventual VFO
[03:15:25] <Jymmm> mostly the coolness factor
[03:16:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what do you think of that link I gave?
[03:16:25] <SWPadnos> the GPS reference?
[03:16:42] <Jymmm> and OCXO
[03:16:55] <Jymmm> I do have a gps I'm willing to use
[03:17:25] <Jymmm> and I'm thinking Arduino
[03:18:50] <Jymmm> I'll have to buy a different 2x16 LCD, as the Indigo Blue one I have uses an inverter for the EL backlight.
[03:19:06] <SWPadnos> I guess I don't know what you mean by "CW transmitter" (CW = continuous wave in my book)
[03:19:14] <Jymmm> correct
[03:19:53] <Jymmm> 2n2222's variable cap, couple hand wound inductors, etc
[03:19:57] <SWPadnos> wow. digikey has some pretty cheap/accurate OCXOs
[03:20:02] <Jymmm> yeah?
[03:20:11] <Jymmm> stable?
[03:20:13] <SWPadnos> only $168 for a +/-5 ppb one
[03:20:23] <Jymmm> thats not cheap
[03:20:26] <Jymmm> $40 is
[03:20:44] <SWPadnos> prepare to wait a looooong time (or find one on eBay or something)
[03:21:21] <Jymmm> you think 10MHz?
[03:21:57] <SWPadnos> what?
[03:22:20] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/High-Precision-PIEZO-10MHZ-OCXO-frequency-standard_W0QQitemZ130292941160QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e56108168
[03:23:28] <SWPadnos> sure, that looks nice
[03:23:41] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/CMAC-10mhz-ocxo-oscillator-square-wave-sc-cut-small_W0QQitemZ290328944228QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4398f41e64
[03:24:10] <SWPadnos> sure, I'm sure ebay is full of them
[03:25:03] <SWPadnos> hard to know the precision of that one though
[03:25:09] <Jymmm> the last one?
[03:25:13] <SWPadnos> the nice yeah
[03:25:15] <SWPadnos> yeah
[03:25:27] <Jymmm> why is that?
[03:25:29] <SWPadnos> the counter they have attached is probably no better than 10 ppm
[03:25:35] <SWPadnos> as well as the scope
[03:26:23] <Jymmm> well, it's not a $40K USD reference
[03:26:52] <Jymmm> Could two of them together help to unbias the results?
[03:27:04] <Jymmm> brb, coffee
[03:29:20] <Jymmm> back
[03:32:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I cant' find one OXCO on digikey
[03:33:05] <Jymmm> nm
[03:33:20] <SWPadnos> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=535-10099-ND
[03:33:33] <SWPadnos> under $100 in 5000 quantity! :)
[03:34:00] <Jymmm> that one is 5ppm, wouldn't I want something like 10ppm?
[03:38:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I have a vacuum pump. Maybe I could vacuum seal it =)
[03:40:47] <L84Supper> cq cq dx :)
[03:45:29] <L84Supper> Jymmm : what frequency CW transmitter and antenna are you planning?
[03:53:37] <L84Supper> http://www.minicircuits.com/ for inexpensive and fun RF parts
[03:56:35] <dmess> HI ALL
[03:59:33] <oPless> L84Supper, the blue cable with the black boot in the forground is a very bad photoshop :(
[04:01:39] <L84Supper> heh, I think that is same pic from the 80's
[04:07:14] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[04:10:45] <oPless> the perspective is off and hurts my brain :)
[04:13:32] <LawrenceG> try .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ04ce9Tn00&feature=player_embedded
[04:32:54] <L84Supper> anyone know a good source for fluid pressure sensors in the range of 0-5 inches of water?
[04:34:28] <ds3> how accurate?
[04:37:12] <L84Supper> a few percent over the range
[04:39:12] <L84Supper> fluid viscosity 1-20 cps
[04:46:16] <L84Supper> to be clearer, a differential pressure sensor with (air) atmosphere on one side and fluid 0 to +5 inch water on the other
[04:47:21] <ds3> was going to say what about a magnetic sensor with on a tube andhave a floating magnet
[04:47:33] <ds3> but that probally isn't too precise
[04:49:36] <L84Supper> a nice earphone may work as well with a plastic diaphragm as a transducer, but I don't want to reinvent this
[04:51:13] <SWPadnos> are you looking for a pressure sensor or a flow meter?
[04:51:33] <L84Supper> differential pressure
[04:51:44] <SWPadnos> oh - I must have misread something - it looked like you talked about flow rates for a sec
[04:53:09] <SWPadnos> hmmm - is that really ~0.2 PSI?
[04:53:19] <L84Supper> yeah, low pressure
[04:53:58] <SWPadnos> through hole or surface mount?
[04:54:07] <SWPadnos> or "other" :)
[04:54:57] <L84Supper> any
[04:55:13] <SWPadnos> Motorola has a pretty good line of sensors
[04:55:32] <ds3> Is that On now or freescale?
[04:55:36] <SWPadnos> MPX is the prefix (I have a couple of MPX5050GP in my hand)
[04:55:41] <SWPadnos> dunno
[04:55:44] <DaViruz_> freescale
[04:55:47] <SWPadnos> it's been a few years
[04:55:59] <SWPadnos> Freescale got the processors and DSPs, I don't know about the sensors
[04:56:08] <ds3> honeywell might also
[04:56:29] <DaViruz_> like i said, the mpx line is freescale now
[04:56:36] <SWPadnos> ok
[04:57:43] <DaViruz_> www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MPX4115.pdf
[04:59:23] <ds3> has anyone gotten a laser running off EMC and has written about it?
[04:59:39] <SWPadnos> ah - Fujikura - that's another good one (if you need lots of them)
[05:00:16] <SWPadnos> http://www.fujikura.co.jp/00/sensor/press/2e.html
[05:01:44] <L84Supper> thanks, I'll have to check for fluid compatibility and sensitivity
[05:02:50] <SWPadnos> I think you can get fluid compatibility by attaching the sensor to an air bladder with a diaphragm separating that from the liquid
[05:03:10] <SWPadnos> small bladder, very flexible diaphragm, and some twiddling with the ratio of volume to area
[05:03:21] <SWPadnos> or just get one that's liquid compatible
[05:03:33] <L84Supper> http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MPXV7002.pdf?pspll=1
[05:08:17] <L84Supper> MEK is the tough fluid
[05:08:18] <Jymmm> L84Supper: 20, 40, or 80m, but I have to pass my general first
[05:09:40] <L84Supper> maybe a 1 mil polypropylene barrier
[05:10:44] <Jymmm> Hmmm, would a 100MHz ref be harder or easier than a 10MHz one?
[05:11:18] <Jymmm> Though, more of a bitch to verify =)
[05:11:51] <fluorine> wow, it's crowded in here
[05:11:54] <L84Supper> I saw some double oven 10MHz references for ~$10 with better specs than the rubidium xo's
[05:12:57] <Jymmm> link?
[05:13:24] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/10mhz-double-oven-crystal-oscillator_W0QQitemZ300367656226QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45ef4eb522
[05:14:17] <L84Supper> phase noise was much lower
[05:14:36] <Jymmm> where did you see that?
[05:14:57] <L84Supper> bottom of that page
[05:16:06] <L84Supper> at least better than the rubidium sources from the same seller
[05:16:55] <L84Supper> for under $100
[05:17:16] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/Efratom-FRS-10mhz-frequency-standard-with-the-board_W0QQitemZ290295929282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4396fc59c2
[05:20:57] <Jymmm> L84Supper: This is what got me started on the idea... http://www.hanssummers.com/gpsref.html
[05:24:22] <L84Supper> that reminds me, is there a long wave ISP anywhere? for Internet in remote locations that lack G3
[05:24:43] <Jymmm> satellite?
[05:25:00] <Jymmm> typically $4/minute
[05:25:09] <Jymmm> well $4-$6/minute
[05:25:17] <L84Supper> do you know how far north they have coverage?
[05:25:33] <Jymmm> you ging to artic circle?
[05:25:35] <Jymmm> going
[05:25:43] <L84Supper> maybe :)
[05:26:32] <Jymmm> no idea. I only checked on SatPhone ater I was told I need to stay on the planet.
[05:30:20] <oPless> if you're a radio ham you might be able to do packet radio on the 2M band
[05:30:30] <oPless> if someone is nice
[05:31:06] <Jymmm> oPless: I have a TM-D700A with built in TNC and APRS =)
[05:31:16] <oPless> :)
[05:31:26] <L84Supper> didn't they drop the morse code requirement for a few HAM licenses?
[05:31:36] <Jymmm> yep
[05:31:43] <Jymmm> all of em
[05:31:44] <oPless> it's been 20 years since I looked at ham radio :)
[05:32:33] <oPless> one of my mates was the youngest guy in the uk at the time
[05:32:50] <oPless> (with a ham licence obviously)
[05:32:52] <L84Supper> we used to get excited as kids when it was a good night for skip
[05:33:33] <oPless> I was excited at the bbs someone in range had running
[05:34:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CBAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt66.com%2F~shera%2FQST_gPS.pdf&ei=eXoHS6TCB4SAsgOF7aHACQ&usg=AFQjCNHK1COFey299Z-BbTC8X7gUcOIf9Q
[05:40:17] <L84Supper> oPless : was C-Band satellite TV available in the UK back then?
[05:53:48] <Jymmm> http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?79821
[08:20:00] <MattyMatt> ds3, a laser would simply be a binary output like a spindle switch, wouldn't it?
[08:21:20] <MattyMatt> I'd imagine you'd have to keep it moving in your gcode, to stop it lasering your table/floor
[08:46:04] <MattyMatt> 1/2" 10SWG tube has an ID less than 1/4" ? Is there any reason to prefer drilled round stock to tube for motor connectors?
[08:48:46] <MattyMatt> and is brass more/less likely to fail than steel, if I don't saw flex slots in it?
[08:50:28] <MattyMatt> am I caring too much ? :) most tutes at my end of the market say connect the motor with rubber hose
[08:51:49] <MattyMatt> I spent 11 quid yesterday on tap+drill for grubscrews
[08:53:57] <MattyMatt> the local metal stockist has a better range of imp sizes than metric. that surprised me a bit
[08:54:37] <awallin> are you making motor-connections yourself?
[08:54:47] <MattyMatt> for my sins yeah
[08:55:05] <MattyMatt> I'll have saved about 50p by the time I'm finished
[08:55:28] <awallin> here's one http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/2007_04rails/stepper.jpg
[08:55:31] <awallin> :)
[08:55:45] <awallin> not really that flexible
[08:56:05] <awallin> but tough guys line up the ballscrew and motor perfectly anyway
[08:57:20] <MattyMatt> my bearing housings and motor mounts are all wood anyway, so it should align itself >:)
[09:02:29] <MattyMatt> I suppose longer = better. I was going to make mine 20mm long
[09:15:59] <MattyMatt> hell yeah I will. M8 studding is all the flexure I need, even if the wood isn't
[11:08:17] <robh_> hi having some problems setting the max_velocity slider value, running axis gui with 3 axis at 10m/min i have jog slider going to 18m/min ok, but can not get the velocity slider set its stuck at 10m/min any ideas?
[12:10:34] <numen> does anyone know a good stepper controller for 6A, 60-80V with microsteps? for self building
[12:12:10] <MrSunshine__> never seen that huge stuff for home building =)
[12:23:42] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[12:26:31] <celeron55> i'd just take a good design and put big enough components on the power side
[12:30:07] <celeron55> that's quite small anyway compared to this home-built dual 80A 22.2V (single-directional) motor controller i'm testing at the moment... :P
[12:39:09] <toastydeath__> toastydeath__ is now known as toastydeath
[12:48:35] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,1167/lang,english/#1168
[12:52:13] <archivist_emc> jthornton, we had a brit in sheffield use emc some time ago seems a similar application
[12:52:44] <jthornton> archivist_emc: thanks
[12:53:05] <archivist_emc> cant remember his name though
[12:53:57] <archivist_emc> should be in the irc logs somewhere
[12:54:18] <jthornton> what would you search for?
[12:55:08] <archivist_emc> from what I remember he was drilling rsj's for making buildings
[13:02:29] <numen> c
[13:02:41] <numen> celeron55 show me an good design ^^
[13:14:17] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:46:53] <oPless^2> oPless^2 is now known as oPless
[15:07:20] <archivist_emc> a challenge for cradek http://dvice.com/archives/2009/10/wozniak-shows-o.php
[15:40:49] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma challenge is moving a 5k lbs lathe 3' to the south
[16:08:16] <tarzan> jt-plasma, any pics?
[16:10:57] <jt-plasma> 3 1/2" down 32" to go... I love it when a plan comes together
[16:11:24] <jt-plasma> tarzan: http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/
[16:18:42] <cradek> jt-plasma: slick! very nice that it's indoors.
[16:22:54] <tarzan> * tarzan looks amazed
[16:26:31] <jt-plasma> cradek: not only indoors but 24" away from the final X-Y position in the shop
[16:26:51] <jt-plasma> it is actually pretty easy to move with my rollers and the floor jack
[16:28:10] <jt-plasma> tarzan: is it less than 5000 lbs but it looks heavier than that with all the sheetmetal
[16:29:12] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma goes to move it another 3"
[16:29:52] <tarzan> which takes more time tooling or programming on these lathes?
[16:30:34] <archivist_emc> programming when you start out I think
[16:56:48] <jt-plasma> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/hardinge04.jpg
[16:56:55] <jt-plasma> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/hardinge03.jpg
[17:05:56] <cradek> jt-plasma: can you explain how that setup works? I'm not seeing it.
[17:07:21] <frallzor> like the old loggers dig
[17:07:23] <frallzor> *Did
[17:07:28] <archivist_emc> it rolls to the stop , roller is in a sandwich
[17:10:24] <jt-plasma> I have one each side they work like bearings
[17:10:38] <jt-plasma> the stops on the 3" square tubing limit my travel :0
[17:10:51] <jt-plasma> so I don't roll backward or off the deep end
[17:11:27] <jt-plasma> the 2x4 is a safety stop while I'm rigging the next move, when all is ready I take the 2x4
[17:11:30] <jt-plasma> s out
[17:11:50] <cradek> I see, thanks
[17:12:08] <jt-plasma> the 1/2" plate provides a good rolling surface for the bar to roll on
[17:12:20] <jt-plasma> the underside of the Hardinge is kinda lumpy
[17:12:25] <cradek> I've used all sorts of tricks to prevent a runaway (have not had one yet) but your system looks much safer
[17:12:52] <jt-plasma> yea, it can not jump the stops for sure
[17:13:30] <jt-plasma> I can actually steer it to some degree as I move it by rotating the floor jack
[17:24:14] <MattyMatt> are you going to keep the original contol panel operative?
[17:25:03] <MattyMatt> the screen at least?
[17:27:54] <jt-plasma> no, I might keep the crt if it works till I get a Touchy
[17:28:14] <jt-plasma> it has a bad board of some kind
[17:28:41] <MattyMatt> is it separate ram, cpu etc?
[17:28:52] <jt-plasma> I'll have power to it this afternoon and see what works and what doesn't work
[17:29:00] <jt-plasma> I've not looked yet
[17:29:31] <jt-plasma> there is one small control board in the back, dunno what is behind the crt and keypad
[17:29:54] <MattyMatt> could just need a jiggle :)
[17:30:37] <MattyMatt> too much faith was placed in edge connectors back then
[17:31:53] <MattyMatt> crt is probably too low freq to get a decent res for emc
[17:32:22] <MattyMatt> CGA or EGA at best
[17:35:11] <MattyMatt> VGA was for workstations when bezels were that colour
[17:35:23] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt guesses 1983
[17:37:01] <celeron55> you could run the keystick UI in text mode :P
[17:38:42] <MattyMatt> or a terminal of some sort, even with another screen
[17:39:48] <MattyMatt> I'm guessing the keyb isn't IBM compatible, unless you're lucky. industrial stuff was still mostly Z80
[17:40:41] <MattyMatt> quite a lot of it still is :)
[17:41:58] <MattyMatt> there might be a neat little market in retrofit kits
[17:43:48] <MattyMatt> my momma used to pay horrendous prices for spare boards for her typesetting machines
[17:46:01] <MattyMatt> until I took over servicing, and did it with spit & string
[17:47:32] <MattyMatt> 600 gbp for a new keyb etc
[17:49:43] <jt-plasma> and I though my Anilam parts were expensive
[17:51:15] <MattyMatt> the boards were all utterly servicable too. 16K static ram boards etc
[17:52:02] <MattyMatt> it turned out that none of the boards were ever actually dead, but they were an easy 150gbp for the servicedude
[17:54:54] <MattyMatt> I showed her Calamus on the ST. the first real wysiwyg dtp, and told her she'd be out of business in 5 years, but she ignored me (with prejudice, she had me locked up)
[17:56:43] <MattyMatt> but that machine was massive. the font changing mech was practically the same as a tool turret
[17:57:08] <MattyMatt> not as strong, but just as large and precise3
[17:57:32] <jt-plasma> for printing books?
[17:58:21] <MattyMatt> yep occasionally books, but most books were done on IBM golfballs for economy
[17:58:40] <MattyMatt> advertising was the main use for phototypsetting
[18:01:04] <MattyMatt> I wish that machine was still here. nice bits in it. the steppers from the 8" floppies for one
[18:02:18] <MattyMatt> and all the servos. 3 at least
[18:02:52] <MattyMatt> 2 big buggers for spinning the drum with the font strip, and for changing font
[18:03:17] <MattyMatt> and at least one for zoom & focus
[18:03:53] <MattyMatt> and then film feed, film cutting etc, but I never touched the optics
[18:08:11] <MattyMatt> I think she was permanently high on spraymount & developer fumes back then
[18:08:48] <MattyMatt> it's hard to tell with artists :)
[18:25:07] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma wanders off to take a well deserved nap :)
[18:26:13] <MattyMatt> what's the diff between cored bar and tube stock?
[18:26:39] <jt-plasma> tube is usually welded seam and cored is just that
[18:26:55] <jt-plasma> nap time here
[18:27:03] <MattyMatt> k, happy zzz
[19:56:00] <frallzor> * frallzor is bored
[19:58:52] <awallin> so I went and bought that lathe project...
[19:59:51] <awallin> pics coming in a moment or two
[20:06:12] <tarzan> * tarzan waiting to look a nice lathe
[20:07:20] <MattyMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk-r1MNHYX4&feature=related
[20:08:14] <MattyMatt> fancy lathe
[20:08:27] <frallzor> * frallzor wants to keep building!
[20:09:05] <MattyMatt> awallin will yours do that?
[20:10:29] <MattyMatt> I presume that stuff needs 2 full headstocks
[20:13:27] <MattyMatt> and extra building insurance for when it crashes
[20:13:29] <awallin> MattyMatt: I'm not going to do a spinning toolholder
[20:13:45] <tarzan> what if a complex tooling on 4 jaw chuck needs to be done?
[20:14:12] <tarzan> does it will be and advantage for an old lathe?
[20:15:00] <MattyMatt> what that spinning tool?
[20:15:16] <oPless> that spinning tool head is amazing
[20:15:47] <MattyMatt> you'd need bloody good encoders, I'd imagine. that's the first time I've seen that done
[20:17:07] <MattyMatt> I suppose you could sync with gears, you only need a few x:1 ratios
[20:18:22] <awallin> Now uploading pics: http://picasaweb.google.fi/anders.e.e.wallin/JHQLathe2009_11_21# in a while all of them are uploaded.
[20:18:48] <MattyMatt> you showed us pics the other day
[20:19:11] <frallzor> ahh he is a swede =)
[20:19:30] <MattyMatt> before you took it apart :)
[20:19:42] <frallzor> or well allmost :P
[20:19:50] <oPless> .fi is finland you dumbass :)
[20:20:14] <frallzor> I just looked at the normal name that isnt PEKKA :P
[20:21:36] <MattyMatt> I like that scissored shield. they would work on my table
[20:23:11] <MattyMatt> I don't think I'll worry too much about sawdust on my mk1 tho, until it stops it moving
[20:27:46] <awallin> the shield is an old one from a mazak mill
[20:28:11] <awallin> costs $$$ as new according to the seller. more than I paid for the whole machine
[20:29:00] <awallin> celeron55: is there still a finnish cnc irc-channel around? #cncfi or something?
[20:30:11] <tarzan> awallin, which is the advantage vs. a brand name lathe?
[20:30:33] <MattyMatt> 1st public pic http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5959/p1010043j.jpg
[20:31:19] <frallzor> your mill?
[20:31:35] <MattyMatt> yep. not much to show for 6 weeks work
[20:31:52] <frallzor> well better than nothing :)
[20:31:55] <MattyMatt> but it's coming together
[20:31:57] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: is there a 2x4 behind that front plate??
[20:32:45] <MattyMatt> Jymmm no, plan A was a stiff box
[20:32:58] <MattyMatt> that's an oak plate. it'll do for now
[20:32:59] <frallzor> what is the work area on that? =)
[20:33:36] <MattyMatt> down to 450 x 14.5" x 200 at last count
[20:33:51] <MattyMatt> not very much for the size of it
[20:34:18] <MattyMatt> I've spent too much time looking at metal mills
[20:35:31] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I mention a 2x4 for rigidity
[20:36:46] <MattyMatt> Jymmm yeah, that's the weakest flexure mode atm
[20:36:50] <celeron55> awallin: i don't know of any, though i haven't searched for any (i'm not a machinist anyway)
[20:36:54] <frallzor> what are you using as linears?
[20:37:12] <MattyMatt> filing cabinet drawer slides
[20:37:24] <frallzor> ah thought I recognized them
[20:37:45] <MattyMatt> and that one standing up will be the Z
[20:37:51] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Wait, huh? Are these ballbearing slides or the plastic wheel ones?
[20:37:59] <MattyMatt> ballbearing
[20:38:08] <Jymmm> ok
[20:40:42] <MattyMatt> those sides have put the pressure on me to get the cuts right. I can't afford to replace it
[20:41:14] <MattyMatt> I shoulda done a bolt-on gantry first
[20:46:18] <MattyMatt> the design of the Z is pretty settled now tho. I can start that tomorrow
[20:47:55] <MattyMatt> also, doing the sides like that used up all my 3/4" ply
[20:48:16] <MattyMatt> I need an overdraft
[20:50:29] <MattyMatt> on Monday I go to spend my remaining budget on new brass and nylon. I've given up examining scrap for likely chunks
[20:51:55] <MattyMatt> total cost so far is less than 200gbp including motors & driver
[20:52:12] <MattyMatt> so I think I'm winning
[20:55:59] <MattyMatt> perspex back and canopy will double that, unless I get lucky or buy a scrap van and use the glass
[20:59:12] <awallin> tarzan: the advantage of this project compared to converting a manual lathe is that it is built from the ground up to be a cnc-lathe. it has linear rails, ballscrews, designed for flood-coolant, etc.
[21:05:46] <tarzan> awallin, what if compared to a brand name cnc ?
[21:06:24] <tarzan> cost, durability?
[21:14:14] <awallin> tarzan: cost is certainly lower if you buy stuff on ebay and you have access to the machines for making the frame of the lathe and you don't charge yourself for hours spent :)
[21:14:30] <awallin> performance might be similar if you engineer it carefully
[21:15:32] <mikegg> this morning at the thrift store, I got two shirts, a belt for the wifey, a pack of four forks, a bobble head shitzu doll, a copy of dianetics, and a Carl Hiasson book for $20
[21:15:46] <mikegg> thats value
[21:17:46] <tarzan> awallin, how you will control a thread cut advance, pitch?
[21:18:47] <awallin> the spindle will have an encoder, EMC2 "slaves" the z-axis to the spindle
[21:19:29] <awallin> no gears and belts and shafts and stuff like on a manual lathe :)
[21:19:44] <tarzan> awallin, estimated total cost?
[21:21:59] <awallin> hm, I paid what JHQ asked for those parts, 1300euros. I think that is about what he paid for all parts and materials. But there are countless hours of welding the frame together and machining and design in addition.
[21:22:21] <awallin> electronics and tooling will add another 1000euros to get going, probably more in the long run
[21:22:52] <awallin> this assumes I have a lot of electronics to start with and do a bit of dumpster-diving, and I have the computer for emc2 control also at no cost
[21:23:54] <tarzan> awallin, good cost for a new cnc
[21:24:33] <eric_unterhausen> I take it you didn't buy the Porsche
[21:25:02] <awallin> nope :)
[21:25:58] <eric_unterhausen> that is a nice machine you got anyway, Porsches are just a time/money sink
[21:38:38] <awallin> it's this one: http://www.loisteputki.liitin.net/TLP/possu.jpg
[21:58:51] <MattyMatt> you can make a porsche, if you team up with frallzor when his mechmate is up
[22:01:17] <MattyMatt> Porsche salesman to MattyMatt after test drive : "Why is there silicone in the crevices?"
[22:01:56] <MattyMatt> me to salesman "because I didn't want to mess up your car with parting powder"
[22:04:34] <MattyMatt> Do Lotus still make fiberglass cars? Is the Tesla FG?
[22:06:19] <andypugh> As far as I know
[22:06:25] <MattyMatt> the only other FG car I've ever heard of was the Plastic Pig
[22:06:31] <awallin> hm, a bit worried about the limited X-axis movement, in theory it's 120mm... not sure if that is going to be enough with varying tooling
[22:06:33] <MattyMatt> only in England :)
[22:06:34] <andypugh> Reliant Scimitar
[22:07:33] <awallin> if I want to turn something that is 200mm in diameter all the tool tips need to be within +/- 10mm, or something like that
[22:07:46] <MattyMatt> I thought Scimitar were swedish or sth
[22:08:16] <awallin> koenigsegg? Didn't they buy Saab or something?
[22:08:57] <MattyMatt> I thought GM owned Saab at the moment
[22:09:43] <awallin> "an announced buyer of Saab Automobile from General Motors."
[22:09:48] <awallin> from wikipedia
[22:09:51] <MattyMatt> they are keeping the local Vauxhall plant open yay \o/
[22:10:26] <MattyMatt> ah they announced they were selling Vaux to Magna but they withdrew that last week
[22:11:46] <MattyMatt> awallin, can yo rework the design to increase the X. the base looked wide enough
[22:12:00] <MattyMatt> what's the swing above the bed?
[22:12:32] <awallin> I think 200mm diam parts will fit
[22:12:37] <awallin> so 100mm swing at least?
[22:12:50] <MattyMatt> yep
[22:13:08] <MattyMatt> swing is radius
[22:13:40] <MattyMatt> how big is the chuck?
[22:13:43] <awallin> but I would probably need new rails and ballscrew for X
[22:14:06] <awallin> The spindle plate, to which the chuck attaches, is 100mm diam. I haven't got a chuck yet
[22:14:25] <MattyMatt> ah it looked bigger in the first photos
[22:14:46] <MattyMatt> to my untrained eye
[22:15:14] <awallin> and, If I get new longer X-rails they will stick out beyond the Z-plate, which isn't exactly ideal.
[22:16:26] <MattyMatt> could you have a way of mounting the X slide so your 120mm movement is e.g. 60mm from the centre?
[22:17:16] <awallin> it is offset towards the rear, don't know how much but I can measure tomorrow
[22:17:23] <MattyMatt> a bit of a chore rebuilding and realigning it each time, but it'd give you the capacity when you need it
[22:17:31] <andypugh> You could use two aternative toolpost mounting points.
[22:17:56] <MattyMatt> duh yeah :) or that
[22:18:57] <awallin> all-out gang tooling would require much more travel anyway, but I would be much more comfortable with say 200mm instead of 120mm like now
[22:19:35] <MattyMatt> yeah I'm sticking with 200mm on my Z on a "routing table"
[22:20:06] <MattyMatt> I'm trading stiffness for flexibilty (of use)
[22:20:54] <andypugh> Do you have the power/gearing to turn 200mm Dia?
[22:21:24] <awallin> on a router type machine, I found you really want the tip of the tool to clear the workpiece quite high up, that means having the Y/X cross slide on at least 200mm height, and having the Z-slide and spindle motor way HIGH up
[22:21:36] <awallin> andypugh: 3000rpm 1.75kW AC servo is the plan
[22:21:54] <andypugh> Might still struggle at <100 rpm..
[22:22:41] <awallin> 7Nm was torque rating, not sure if that can be achieved at low rpm. I wan't to drive it with a servo-drive though so I can do C-axis live-tool operations eventually
[22:22:47] <andypugh> But I expect you can use little cuts if there is an issue.
[22:22:52] <MattyMatt> that's when you kick in the clutch on the stepping auxiliary :)
[22:23:49] <awallin> gearbox?
[22:24:24] <andypugh> I would probably have a reduction drive, mine maxes out at 1500rpm and I have never wanted more speed
[22:24:33] <MattyMatt> I'm thinking a big stepper motor, synced in software, with a dog-clutch that only engages at RPM the stepper can handle
[22:25:11] <awallin> MattyMatt: I think the 1.75kW AC spindle pretty much eats all steppers I know alive
[22:25:23] <MattyMatt> probably
[22:25:58] <awallin> andypugh: what are the smallest parts you work with? the manual lathe I use maxes out at 1500rpm...
[22:26:46] <andypugh> I have a 750W motor on a VFD. That is perfectly good at 75mm radius. Your servo has more than twice the power and probably much better low speed torque. You will probably be fine
[22:27:30] <MattyMatt> first thing to make with it, a bigger servo :)
[22:28:23] <awallin> andypugh: look what the seller also has http://www.loisteputki.liitin.net/TLP/sorvi/Kuva024.jpg ! speak of the devil...
[22:28:32] <andypugh> Yes, that was my point. Anything over 1500rpm spindle speed is probably pointless
[22:28:57] <andypugh> Looks good
[22:29:15] <andypugh> I see a parting tool holder too.
[22:29:54] <awallin> probably not T0 size, looks bigger? T1?
[22:32:02] <andypugh> Bigger = better
[22:32:40] <awallin> they were from some vocational school, so probably not run-down by 3-shift production machining
[22:33:01] <andypugh> I have a T1 (I think) and had to make a riser block as I removed the compound slide
[22:33:25] <andypugh> Probably from a Colchester student. Buy the lathe too.
[22:34:10] <awallin> :)
[22:35:00] <awallin> have this one at work already http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/lathe2.jpg
[22:35:11] <awallin> although it's OLD and not really for precision work
[22:35:28] <awallin> well a good machinist can do precise work with anything they say...
[22:36:32] <andypugh> Nice lathe. I suspect that a tweak on the head bearings and a gibs adjustment would make it very accurate
[22:36:35] <archivist_emc> they say...but a warn spindle bearing effects the work
[22:36:45] <archivist_emc> worn
[22:37:01] <awallin> this one is 1949
[22:37:16] <andypugh> That looks like adjustable split plain bearings to me.
[22:38:07] <awallin> how come HSR20 doesn't give any hits on ebay?
[22:39:20] <MattyMatt> nobody wants to sell 'em?
[22:39:48] <awallin> HSR25 is there, maybe the 20mm standard is less popular
[22:44:09] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/schaublin/
[22:45:33] <archivist_emc> awallin, I seem to own one od those schaublins now :)
[22:45:52] <awallin> archivist: seem?
[22:46:11] <archivist_emc> I believe it when it arrives home
[22:46:23] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:46:26] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/schaublin/page13.html
[22:46:36] <andypugh> Seems I was wrong about the bearings.
[22:47:06] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, dud! how are ya?
[22:47:20] <archivist_emc> the 120 is a nice lump
[22:47:44] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Man, I want to make a refercne like yours
[22:48:32] <archivist_emc> andypugh, the 120 at the ex work has a slight fault in the spindle bearing which shows its not plain
[22:48:34] <LawrenceG> lots of designs around.... I would make the next version with a dspic written in C...
[22:49:00] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I'm thinkng a vsco gps and an ardunio
[22:49:40] <LawrenceG> I think my design is the only one that uses the 10mhz ref for the gps card as well as the ref.... ardinio should work
[22:49:43] <andypugh> Spindle bearings were of the highest quality with that at the front being a double-row cylindrical roller (usually an SKF NN 3011-K-SP) and at the rear two ball bearings of the "magneto type" (SKF 7208-C15).
[22:49:46] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: http://www.hanssummers.com/gpsref.html
[22:50:45] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: PM
[22:51:10] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: /join #jymmm
[22:51:25] <LawrenceG> ok
[22:52:35] <archivist_emc> awallin, is you can get that shaublin its well worth having
[22:52:40] <archivist_emc> is/if
[22:54:05] <awallin> archivist: it's at work, I can use it any time I want. Don't even remotely have room for it at home...
[22:54:50] <awallin> what are you guys doing with GPS references?
[22:54:52] <archivist_emc> I have to make space for mine to come home
[22:55:24] <andypugh> The more I fiddle with my chinese lathe conversion, the more I wish I had started with an old british machine.
[22:55:51] <andypugh> A DSG for preference. Colchester is a bit Southern
[22:56:59] <archivist_emc> yup old and well built cand just do things the week chinese machines cannot do
[22:57:20] <andypugh> The canteen cutlery was stamped "DSG" and the appearance of the work-force was also special - their overalls (white starched) being made to measure for each man by Speaks of Keighley.
[22:58:05] <andypugh> I can watch my saddle wobble. I think I need to scrape it in again, looks like it has distorted some more.
[22:59:45] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/dsg/index.html
[23:00:18] <andypugh> Sadly now a mere shadow of themselves, doing recon work. I bought a headstock off of them for a cam plastometer that I made.
[23:03:13] <numen> re
[23:03:26] <archivist_emc> I have seen some dsg's on fleabay
[23:04:18] <awallin> is ebay.com search somehow broken, I get no results with very common search terms...
[23:05:30] <archivist_emc> yes very borked
[23:06:19] <awallin> .co.uk seems the same. .de works
[23:07:14] <archivist_emc> a search for sandvik fails for me on .co.uk
[23:11:53] <andypugh> sandvik is working fine for me
[23:12:59] <archivist_emc> it is now here
[23:18:57] <awallin> anyone know a webshop for hiwin linear rails and ballscrews?
[23:19:20] <awallin> metallstore.de has the rails and they used to have ballscews, but now the ballscrews have been removed
[23:23:08] <andypugh> www.slidesandballscrews.co.uk
[23:23:55] <andypugh> No, wait, not necessarily Hiwin
[23:26:35] <andypugh> http://www.marchantdice.com/ do HiWIn
[23:29:50] <awallin> slidesand... has a nice 400W ER11 spindle that does 24krpm...
[23:43:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: cradek jepler http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16267
[23:44:09] <awallin> hrm, only 15 pulses/rev
[23:44:29] <Jymmm> awallin: not for measurement, but for control
[23:44:52] <archivist_emc> too coarse Jymmm
[23:45:03] <Jymmm> nah
[23:45:25] <awallin> I think we have 40ppr magnetic ones at work, not nearly as expensive as 100ppr jogwheels
[23:45:40] <awallin> maybe 15-20eur for the 40ppr
[23:54:17] <andypugh> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=2509638796
[23:55:49] <andypugh> You might be able to find the same thing at the Finnish site: http://fi.rsdelivers.com/