#emc | Logs for 2009-11-15

[00:00:13] <pfred1> freaking 20 amp diode in there for reverses
[00:00:29] <pfred1> theres one in every computer PSU :)
[00:01:04] <pfred1> L84Supper want the schemo for it?
[00:01:11] <pfred1> its easy to make
[00:04:03] <pfred1> and if you need more power just add more transistors I stopped at 3 it semed enough to me
[00:05:29] <L84Supper> pfred1 : thank you but no, I was just wondering
[00:14:07] <tarzan_> pfred1, what is the big cilynder in the box?
[00:16:01] <tarzan_> the cap seems huge
[00:16:15] <L84Supper> anyone wanna go in on this with me, I have a $100 or so http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-5-Axis-Gantry-mill-50X-x-18Y-x-10Z_W0QQitemZ120481163021QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item1c0d3ca70d
[00:16:28] <L84Supper> who sells this on ebay?
[00:19:28] <eric_unterhausen> look at the size of the digitizer probe
[00:20:04] <L84Supper> video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqGXQ8RnVCk
[00:20:27] <eric_unterhausen> not a particularly large gantry as large gantries go
[00:21:12] <L84Supper> mills the entire hull of a ship from a solid block of steel
[00:21:32] <eric_unterhausen> 50' could be extended fairly easily
[00:22:38] <L84Supper> I wonder how many items like this actually sell on ebay or if it's just good advertisement
[00:26:55] <frallzor> woow it can mill foam =)
[00:27:38] <celeron55_> why don't they mill something more interesting in the video
[00:27:56] <frallzor> I bet its not very rigid
[00:28:02] <L84Supper> the worlds largest chunk of cheddar or something
[00:30:03] <eric_unterhausen> what is it with you guys and machining food?
[00:32:14] <L84Supper> hungry today
[00:33:21] <mozmck> It says you can make an offer - see if they'll take your $100
[00:33:43] <L84Supper> I wonder if the repeatability is any better than 1mm on that gantry
[00:35:11] <tarzan_> L84Supper, 5 axis ? I never have seen more than 3 axis needed on machines
[00:35:14] <eric_unterhausen> they probably would be happy with 1mm
[00:35:37] <eric_unterhausen> if you're milling a car body without moving the part, you need 5
[00:37:31] <toastydeath> a large number of things need 4 and 5 axis machines
[00:38:01] <eric_unterhausen> milling a new head for the car
[00:38:14] <L84Supper> now if it could also walk to the part....
[00:40:15] <L84Supper> or combine the mill with a 3D printer nozzle to deposit plasticized concrete, you could pour a house and finish with the same machine
[00:44:45] <pfred1> L84Supper done much concrete finishing have you?
[00:45:10] <pfred1> that I'd like to see a machine finishing concrete!
[00:48:37] <L84Supper> pfred1 : the concrete used is more resin than cement since it has to be able to dry quickly, it's poured without the use of forms
[00:51:28] <pfred1> I see not concrete like we use then sometimes we use it with plastiscizer in it or kitty hair
[00:51:35] <pfred1> fiberglass
[00:51:43] <L84Supper> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/16/business/realestate/main2487598.shtml
[00:52:20] <L84Supper> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contour_Crafting
[00:52:55] <pfred1> L84Supper you know what we all say?
[00:53:08] <pfred1> A robot will never replace me until it learns how to drink!
[00:53:38] <pfred1> but seriously in construction we got a long way to go before robots on jobs
[00:54:12] <eric_unterhausen> fascinating, but stupid
[00:54:20] <pfred1> that POS behind that guy would be in little pieces all over the jobsite before morning break I'm afraid
[00:54:44] <L84Supper> the "pleasurebots" will probably roll out first
[00:54:50] <pfred1> indeed
[00:54:57] <pfred1> much less harsh environment
[00:55:26] <pfred1> L84Supper http://wiki.opendildonics.org/Main_Page
[00:55:30] <eric_unterhausen> sometimes I see other people's research, and am cowed by its brilliance
[00:55:53] <eric_unterhausen> in this case, not so much
[00:56:21] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen notquite ready to become a charter member of the open dildonics society are you?
[00:57:14] <L84Supper> the on-site is not so practical, but in the factory for prefab it has potential
[00:57:18] <pfred1> where sourcecode ain't the only thing open!
[00:57:37] <eric_unterhausen> there are factories all over the U.S. that can build you a wall
[00:57:43] <L84Supper> http://www.instantrimshot.com/
[00:57:45] <pfred1> L84Supper factory fab is all CNC
[00:58:00] <eric_unterhausen> my boss' house has a house built on prefab concrete walls
[00:58:21] <tlab> his house has a house, nice...
[00:58:29] <eric_unterhausen> that didn't come out quite right
[00:58:32] <tlab> must be rich
[00:59:15] <eric_unterhausen> the only problem with it is that the people who put it together have to be reasonably competent
[00:59:21] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen yes I've worked on jobs that used precast
[00:59:27] <L84Supper> the point of cnc pouring concrete is to eliminate the forms
[00:59:36] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen made by a bunch of mexicans in Arizona I was told
[00:59:46] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen that'd ake it what MCN ?
[01:00:08] <eric_unterhausen> I think most of the plants are fairly local
[01:00:10] <tarzan_> robot building a house , c'mon
[01:00:29] <pfred1> tarzan_ in modular consrtuction there is a lot of CNC
[01:00:39] <pfred1> all the wood cutting is CNC
[01:01:09] <pfred1> I even saw a guy on TV that has a timberframe company and he CNCs that stuff
[01:01:15] <L84Supper> concrete and t-slot
[01:01:48] <pfred1> yeah you can get higher tensile strength off site
[01:02:06] <pfred1> onsite we don't look for more than say 2,500 maybe 3,000 PSI
[01:02:14] <pfred1> offsie you can achieve 5,000
[01:02:38] <pfred1> bank vaults are precast offsite
[01:03:00] <pfred1> and man they're a bitch to tear down let me tell you!
[01:03:42] <pfred1> L84Supper you'd have loved the gadget they brought onto one job to tear apart a bank vault it was like a robot
[01:04:34] <pfred1> L84Supper like a jeep with a big mechanical arm on it with a jackhammer on the end
[01:05:07] <L84Supper> heh was picturing a 10' dia circular saw on the end of a crane
[01:05:34] <pfred1> nah couldn't get anything big to this vault was inside a building
[01:05:41] <pfred1> or they'd have just used a ram on it
[01:05:56] <pfred1> this was like a mini ram
[01:06:02] <pfred1> but it looked so cool
[01:06:31] <pfred1> it tore up that vault in 45 minutes where as a whole crew of guys working the day before barely put a dent into it
[01:06:50] <L84Supper> very noisy?
[01:07:06] <pfred1> I donno I'd say the whole crew was noiser
[01:07:14] <pfred1> just less effective
[01:07:31] <pfred1> and were beat up and bruised pretty badly themselves by the end of the day
[01:07:41] <pfred1> running jackhammers up walls seriously sucks
[01:07:51] <pfred1> you get as beat up as what you're beating up
[01:08:02] <pfred1> it is sort of a 50 50 deal
[01:08:29] <pfred1> if there's a trick to it I've never figured it out
[01:08:40] <pfred1> trick is don't do it
[01:08:48] <L84Supper> imagining what it would be like having to explain what the thing is if pulled over by the police
[01:08:49] <eric_unterhausen> well cured concrete is very strong
[01:09:01] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen concrete never fully hardens
[01:09:16] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen it is a crystal just keeps getting stronger and stronger as it ages
[01:09:27] <eric_unterhausen> there must be some point...
[01:09:33] <pfred1> must be
[01:09:41] <pfred1> but old concrete is bad
[01:09:43] <eric_unterhausen> but I've heard that after 40 years it's incredibly tough
[01:09:49] <L84Supper> yeah, then it starts to crumble
[01:09:51] <pfred1> you heard right
[01:09:56] <pfred1> well
[01:10:06] <pfred1> prestress crmbles when the rods rot
[01:10:20] <pfred1> the oron is a slow explosion inside the concrete
[01:10:27] <pfred1> iron even
[01:10:39] <pfred1> big business there
[01:11:13] <pfred1> I've busted up more than my fair share of concrete thats for sure!
[01:11:39] <pfred1> my personal best is 7 feet down
[01:12:02] <pfred1> and my advise to anyone busting concrete is just this, Go big!
[01:12:24] <eric_unterhausen> they took out an older building near my work recently
[01:12:26] <pfred1> trying to do it neatly is just a lot more work
[01:12:33] <eric_unterhausen> getting rid of the slab took quite a while
[01:12:51] <eric_unterhausen> in fact they just left the outside foundation and made it into a wall
[01:12:55] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen sometimes you're just better off hiring the cutters
[01:13:07] <pfred1> they can do it fast
[01:13:27] <eric_unterhausen> I don't remember how they got rid of the slab, they had some pretty cool machines to get rid of the upper part of the building
[01:13:31] <pfred1> I've seen cutters take apart a floor faster than you could pour one
[01:14:25] <pfred1> yeah when i had to go 7 feet down it was into a foundation
[01:14:41] <eric_unterhausen> I think it took longer because the guy with the machine was sorting out the steel beams as he went
[01:14:57] <pfred1> yeah no such thing as landfill anymore
[01:14:59] <eric_unterhausen> and if there was one that was too long, he'd snip it with the claws of the machine
[01:15:01] <pfred1> it all gets sorted
[01:15:17] <pfred1> I think thats called a shear
[01:15:34] <pfred1> that attachment
[01:16:08] <eric_unterhausen> i woulda paid to do that job for a day
[01:16:19] <pfred1> operators make good money
[01:16:20] <eric_unterhausen> it's my childhood dream
[01:16:40] <pfred1> you say that til you've been up in one of them machines
[01:16:45] <pfred1> you take quite a beating
[01:17:04] <eric_unterhausen> from what?
[01:17:06] <pfred1> all that slamming around
[01:17:18] <pfred1> when you see the machine move he's in there moving with it
[01:17:24] <pfred1> those things got no shock absorbers
[01:17:39] <pfred1> trust me I been in them it like a harsh amusement park ride
[01:17:40] <pfred1> all day long
[01:17:49] <pfred1> bang! slam!
[01:17:51] <pfred1> bang
[01:17:55] <pfred1> it adds up
[01:18:15] <pfred1> just something outside you don't think abou
[01:18:22] <eric_unterhausen> I can live with it to fulfill one of my childhood dreams
[01:18:26] <pfred1> but you get jostled running a machine
[01:18:44] <pfred1> I never knew til I got inside one never thought of it
[01:19:01] <pfred1> but I was like damn this sucks!
[01:19:27] <pfred1> before that I was always jealous of the operators sitting there all day long
[01:19:56] <pfred1> but they sitting there taking a royal beating
[01:20:10] <pfred1> operators are all drunks
[01:25:04] <L84Supper> eric : I didn't know those Shunk servo finger grippers were so pricey, do they work well?
[01:26:26] <pfred1> Stroking Motor: 1/6hp (40 in-lb torque). Variable power.
[01:26:38] <L84Supper> $70k is 2x the price of the robot I was considering mounting it on
[01:26:44] <pfred1> man the Internet is sick
[01:27:41] <eric_unterhausen> that hand is amazing
[01:27:52] <eric_unterhausen> I don't work with it, I just helped buy it
[01:28:30] <eric_unterhausen> there are youtubes of it working
[01:29:03] <eric_unterhausen> when it was first introduced, it went for twice that much
[01:29:07] <L84Supper> I've seen them at the trade shows, actually Fabtec is here starting Monday
[01:30:21] <L84Supper> woops tomorrow
[01:32:28] <L84Supper> I should try to get a small table space at Fabtech or the Automation show next year to demo EMC
[01:34:55] <pfred1> L84Supper just don't bathe for like a month and run around the parking lot wild eyed trying to hand out home burnt CDs of it :)
[01:35:21] <L84Supper> yeah, been there
[01:35:26] <pfred1> heh
[01:35:50] <pfred1> that'd be how Linux would be promoted most likely
[01:36:11] <pfred1> shame too because it is such good stuff
[01:36:27] <pfred1> man i can't believe people run anything else
[01:37:40] <L84Supper> I'm trying out EMC in some new 3 axis inkjet printers
[01:38:03] <pfred1> L84Supper you're not that guy are you?
[01:38:20] <pfred1> L84Supper on CNCZone?
[01:38:28] <L84Supper> nope
[01:38:34] <pfred1> oh OK good
[01:38:39] <pfred1> because they're cracked
[01:38:45] <L84Supper> I'll have to look now
[01:39:13] <pfred1> they made theirs to diredt apply resist to PCB
[01:39:17] <eric_unterhausen> which guy?
[01:39:38] <L84Supper> UV resist is pretty simple
[01:39:42] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen a thread I read on CNCZone a guy made a machine to direct apply resist to PCB
[01:39:53] <eric_unterhausen> ok
[01:39:54] <L84Supper> we are printing conductive traces directly by inkjet
[01:40:01] <pfred1> L84Supper that is all I could think of while I was reading the thread!
[01:40:15] <pfred1> just get the UV board
[01:40:23] <L84Supper> active components as well
[01:40:29] <pfred1> but nooo this guy had to make this crazy machine
[01:40:54] <pfred1> went through all kinds of troubles wit hthe ink
[01:41:15] <L84Supper> yeah, read the patents as well
[01:41:40] <pfred1> patents?
[01:43:47] <L84Supper> UV and solvent resins resist cuperic and ferric chloride as well
[01:44:14] <L84Supper> yeah, the USPTO approves just about anything these days
[01:57:40] <L84Supper> huh, PCB printing is a popular subject at cnczone
[01:58:11] <L84Supper> mostly printing resist and hacking desktop TIJ's to do so
[01:58:58] <eric_unterhausen> only reason I can see to build PCB at home is convenience
[01:59:27] <pfred1> it can be cheaper
[01:59:37] <pfred1> than a board house
[01:59:51] <pfred1> but I've had spotty results with toner transfer method
[01:59:54] <eric_unterhausen> I doubt it's cheaper
[02:00:02] <L84Supper> the current tech is for RFID and simple single use throw away applications
[02:00:03] <pfred1> for one board?
[02:00:08] <pfred1> you doubt its cheaper?
[02:00:15] <eric_unterhausen> the marginal cost for one board might be less
[02:00:29] <eric_unterhausen> getting to the point where you can make one board may not be cheaper
[02:00:36] <pfred1> cheapest board houses I see are $25
[02:01:04] <eric_unterhausen> and if I set out today to make one board how much would it cost me?
[02:01:05] <L84Supper> using synthetic paper for the boards
[02:01:20] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen what method?
[02:01:26] <eric_unterhausen> cheapest
[02:01:51] <eric_unterhausen> I have nothing, have to buy it all
[02:02:03] <pfred1> board itself say $5 a sheet of toner transfer $2 etchant $7
[02:02:40] <pfred1> you need to buy the drill too?
[02:02:45] <pfred1> that could run you
[02:02:46] <eric_unterhausen> laser printer $100?
[02:02:59] <pfred1> could go to a copy shop
[02:03:15] <pfred1> but you should have laser printer anyways inkjets blow
[02:03:19] <pfred1> :)
[02:03:23] <L84Supper> inkjet printed doesn't use solder, leaded parts are sonic welded
[02:03:45] <eric_unterhausen> color lasers are pretty expensive
[02:03:50] <pfred1> last laser printer I bought cost me $10
[02:03:53] <L84Supper> or conductive adhesive
[02:03:58] <pfred1> at a garage sale HP L4+
[02:04:39] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen but the thing is most people who want to etch a PCB already have things
[02:05:13] <eric_unterhausen> I think most of them are just fooling themselves
[02:05:22] <pfred1> past that I don't want to hire someone else to do my hobby for me
[02:05:34] <pfred1> I mean where's the fun in that?
[02:06:14] <pfred1> I etched my first PCB when I was 13
[02:06:31] <pfred1> used that rub on transfer stuff
[02:07:04] <L84Supper> what! no sharpie?
[02:07:20] <pfred1> nope not sure if there were Sharpies back then
[02:07:24] <eric_unterhausen> I used paint pens
[02:07:29] <pfred1> least I'd never seen one
[02:07:43] <pfred1> this was in the 70s
[02:07:47] <L84Supper> MEK + nigrosine + resin
[02:08:14] <pfred1> the rub on stuff wasn't too bad
[02:08:38] <pfred1> I still have that board
[02:09:27] <pfred1> just a 7490 + 7447 + 7 seg LED counter with a 555 timer clock on it
[02:09:46] <pfred1> but hey I was only 13
[02:10:08] <eric_unterhausen> I need to get some training on the t-tech machine I have access to
[02:10:09] <L84Supper> I did the same with my Craftsman drill press and #60 bits that I'd break every 10 holes or so
[02:10:30] <eric_unterhausen> my last pc board was fun, I drilled a hole in my hand
[02:10:37] <pfred1> L84Supper I had a Dremel talk about breaking bits
[02:10:40] <L84Supper> I'd end up drilling half the holes with a bit 1/4" long
[02:10:47] <pfred1> I was convinced it couldn't be done!
[02:10:48] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: O_o
[02:11:06] <pfred1> I have a mini high speed drill press now
[02:11:17] <pfred1> works OK
[02:12:21] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen past that I know I want more PCBs at a later date
[02:12:45] <pfred1> so investing in some tooling can be spread out over more boards
[02:12:52] <L84Supper> with inkjet we are getting below 1 mil trace and space, <1/3 UL spec right now
[02:13:33] <pfred1> L84Supper what ink conducts?
[02:14:01] <L84Supper> Methode 9101 is aqueous
[02:14:32] <L84Supper> http://www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx?newsitem=30
[02:15:05] <L84Supper> better link http://www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx?newsitem=29
[02:15:58] <pfred1> L84Supper little out of my price range
[02:16:10] <L84Supper> the dev kit is pricey
[02:16:16] <pfred1> The price of the kit is $1,850
[02:16:44] <pfred1> that'd be an awful lot of PCBs before I saw any payoff there!
[02:17:18] <L84Supper> heh, in a year or two the ink price will be down, it's just coming out
[02:17:41] <L84Supper> you should see what we pay for semiconductor ink
[02:18:19] <L84Supper> 100ml= $4k
[02:18:38] <pfred1> L84Supper lets hope a little dab will do ya
[02:19:01] <L84Supper> 3pL will get you a transistor
[02:20:42] <pfred1> thats a pretty little dab
[02:21:17] <pfred1> yeah I could see some peoples time being worth enough to justify it
[02:21:31] <pfred1> just not mine I do this stuff to pass the time
[02:21:56] <pfred1> hobby = pass the time as cheaply as possible
[02:23:44] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[02:24:20] <eric_unterhausen> take up reading then
[02:24:37] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen I do
[02:25:32] <L84Supper> it just gets pricey when I add the single malt to that
[02:25:44] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen but for some reason beyond my coprehension I enjoy electronics
[02:25:57] <eric_unterhausen> I hate to think how much money I've wasted on hobbies
[02:26:35] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen you don't want to hear the quote I've coined for that
[02:27:34] <eric_unterhausen> goferit
[02:32:13] <eric_unterhausen> I have a wood lathe I was thinking about selling, so I looked for one like it on ebay
[02:32:26] <eric_unterhausen> found one, in the metalworking lathe section
[02:32:51] <eric_unterhausen> told the guy it was a woodworking lathe, it didn't sell and he relisted in the metalworking section again
[02:33:21] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen less to be learned never volunteer
[02:33:24] <L84Supper> persistance
[02:33:28] <pfred1> that goes for information too!
[02:33:51] <pfred1> I learned long ago don't pay to try to educate
[02:33:56] <eric_unterhausen> kinda annoying since I would like to see it sell
[02:34:13] <pfred1> can't search completed auctions?
[02:34:40] <pfred1> thats how I price stuff
[02:34:44] <eric_unterhausen> nothing there
[02:34:52] <pfred1> I guess you can't then
[02:35:16] <L84Supper> you have to keep an eye on the item now
[02:35:17] <pfred1> I had this teapot once I was like how unique looked on Ebay there were three being sold
[02:35:40] <pfred1> I was like not so unique after all!
[02:35:50] <L84Supper> "watch this item" to see what it sold for
[02:36:03] <pfred1> L84Supper they did but it didn't sell
[02:36:13] <eric_unterhausen> that's interesting, I did find one, sold for 700
[02:36:23] <pfred1> I'm suprised ebay hasn't sold another sometime
[02:36:47] <pfred1> yeah ebay has probably already sold the freaking Holy Grail by now
[02:37:11] <eric_unterhausen> these things show up occasionally, no doubt
[02:37:19] <pfred1> they seem to have sold everything that ever was
[02:37:41] <eric_unterhausen> the one that sold even has a tool holder just like mine, I thought it was homemade
[02:39:11] <L84Supper> I'm surprised they don't let people bet on what items will sell for just like credit defaults
[02:39:52] <pfred1> Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail Plus + Reverb Sold For:US $140.00
[02:40:44] <pfred1> ebay is a money making machine!
[02:40:57] <pfred1> they're just sitting back letting it all roll in
[02:41:06] <L84Supper> it's everyones online garage sale
[02:41:26] <pfred1> L84Supper worse than that I'm afraid I am a garage sale junky
[02:41:35] <pfred1> L84Supper and ebay is something else entirely
[02:42:04] <eric_unterhausen> too bad businesses have discovered the motion control sections
[02:42:21] <pfred1> ebay is always top dollar
[02:42:50] <pfred1> you're often better off going somewhere else to get it
[02:43:00] <L84Supper> I still come across linear positioners and servo drives for cheap
[02:43:08] <pfred1> no doubt
[02:43:36] <pfred1> but I've seen lots go for way more than it is worth too
[02:44:12] <eric_unterhausen> considering how much most servo drives go for retail, ebay is cheap
[02:44:35] <L84Supper> picked up 2 Parker motion 1 micron repeat. 1m positioners with drives for <$1k together
[02:44:46] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen to me second hand should be 10 cents on the dollar or better
[02:45:07] <pfred1> for it to be a good deal
[02:45:42] <eric_unterhausen> so $1000 going for $100 is a good deal, right?
[02:46:16] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen yes depending on if it is obselete or not
[02:46:27] <pfred1> electronics can be a special case
[02:46:37] <L84Supper> the real good deals tend to be listed with typos or in the wrong sections
[02:46:47] <pfred1> electronics goes obselete more than say fine china or silver might
[02:46:53] <eric_unterhausen> shhhhh
[02:47:04] <eric_unterhausen> servo drives tend to last a while
[02:47:04] <pfred1> yes * finds a lot
[02:47:24] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen thing is is there better technology available today?
[02:47:27] <L84Supper> sorvo drive, steeper moter
[02:47:47] <pfred1> some stepper motors on ebay look out
[02:47:56] <pfred1> they're medical pulls from radiation environments
[02:48:08] <pfred1> radation plays hell with magnets
[02:48:25] <L84Supper> lots with no specs, just nema23 servo
[02:48:45] <pfred1> buyer beware
[02:48:59] <pfred1> as is can mean as if
[02:49:11] <L84Supper> no label and frayed wires :)
[02:49:37] <pfred1> yes all of that has to be taken into account for rice the risk factor
[02:50:04] <pfred1> for risk exposure you should be handsomely rewarded
[02:50:38] <pfred1> and i just ain't seeing it all the time on ebay
[02:51:23] <L84Supper> Chernobyl military surplus
[02:51:54] <eric_unterhausen> I wish the safety ninnies at work hadn't locked up the brake and shear
[02:55:24] <L84Supper> you to can scan your own brain http://cgi.ebay.com/Philips-MRI-Head-Coil-3T-QHC-T-R-4522-131-94501-unused_W0QQitemZ350270928719QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518dc6374f
[02:58:24] <pfred1> Flerb combines flanging with spatial reverb for a unique ethereal sound
[02:59:51] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen the real question is did the safety ninnies at work lock up the demolition saw?
[03:03:56] <eric_unterhausen> I could dismantle the locks, but I'm waiting for an emergency
[03:04:09] <eric_unterhausen> some idiot unbolted the hasps once, and stupidly left them unbolted
[03:04:26] <eric_unterhausen> so they made it a lot harder
[03:05:06] <pfred1> yea my optoisolator works at 5.7 ma input!
[03:05:45] <pfred1> tha should be safe with a parallel port no?
[03:06:03] <pfred1> worst case I've heard of there is 6 ma
[05:40:02] <tom3p> in halrun, following the hal user manual page13, should save all saved.hal save the parameters?
[05:40:03] <tom3p> in the example page13 a param was changed (setp siggen.0.amplitude 5), but it didnt show up after restoring from the hal file ( halrun -I -f saved.hal).
[05:40:38] <tom3p> amplitude was back to 1
[08:37:16] <ds3> to get hold on the McBSP2 signals on the beagleboard.
[08:37:16] <ds3> They now go from ball to ball on the board as I2S tracks.
[09:05:04] <micges1> micges1 is now known as micges
[11:34:26] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[11:53:55] <MattyMatt> I need a brake & shear. those magnetic ones that work in a vice look OK
[12:04:44] <MattyMatt> I bet once you get one of them in the workshop, you immediately need a roller to flatten it all again
[12:15:19] <MattyMatt> ah, flat jaws of vice will press ctl-Z on a bend gone wrong
[12:33:21] <Boon_> hello
[12:33:49] <MattyMatt> hello Boon_. quiet in here today
[12:35:57] <Boon_> Could anyone please recommend me something as simple as possbile for 2.5d milling (all i want to do is jus engrave text ) , that would generate EMC compatible g code?
[12:36:26] <Boon_> just*
[12:40:03] <jthornton_> EMC has ... JT goes to look
[12:40:17] <Boon_> I've been trying to make sense for two days now , the closes i've gotten to anything is with engravelab
[12:40:23] <Boon_> but i think engravelab's 2d
[12:41:03] <Boon_> since it wont lift up while moving between letters ,creating big scratches and in the end making the text barely readable
[12:41:13] <jthornton_> by 2.5D do you mean on a curved surface?
[12:41:56] <Boon_> I mean that i want to be able to controll the depth
[12:42:13] <jthornton_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators#Text_Engraving_Software
[12:42:32] <Boon_> wow , thanks alot
[12:42:39] <jthornton_> Lawrence wrote that one
[13:02:52] <Boon_> VM has too much delay to be usable , so I'll boot to livecd , hope it works and thanks again for the help.
[13:17:03] <MattyMatt> engravelab must have a tool up command
[13:17:19] <MattyMatt> even if it's a binary switch
[13:17:42] <MattyMatt> ah he gone
[13:18:09] <pjm_> I tried some win32 software called 'deskengrave'
[13:18:15] <pjm_> seems pretty good for writing txt
[14:11:27] <Jymmm> pjm_: http://www.majosoft.com/engraving/html/free_software_tools.html
[14:17:03] <pjm_> Jymmm thanks! looks like some interesting stuff to play with there
[14:20:57] <Jymmm> your welcome
[15:01:45] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[15:06:04] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[15:28:54] <tom3p> pjm emc has 'cp1' and it had some engraving, reticles, rules, ( so text wrapped around graduated knobs for xmpl ) and LawrenceG wrote more text extensions
[15:33:02] <tom3p> pjm_: this looks cool, input is svg ( from many grfx apps like inkscape ) , output is .ngc gcode, AND you can run it from online, no software to install http://machinetouch.appspot.com/svgEngraver.py ( from hugomatic )
[15:33:26] <tom3p> sorry wrong winder
[15:37:24] <tom3p> mebee not, looks like cad/cam stuff here in #emc
[15:38:22] <tom3p> in halrun, following the hal user manual page13, should "save all saved.hal" save the parameters?
[15:59:34] <alex_joni> http://workcycles.com/workbike/bicycles/accessories/antitheft-spray.html
[16:07:49] <oPless> lol
[16:11:16] <celeron55_> :D
[16:13:32] <tom3p> alex_joni: http://www.kevincyr.net/index.php?/project/camper-bike/
[16:31:01] <MattyMatt> neat. I found shelf sliders with a very short stiff slider, and balls much closer together in the race so plenty of points of contact, and with a short piece of angle welded across the slider
[16:31:28] <MattyMatt> one pair will do my Z
[16:32:01] <MattyMatt> and they'd make a nice X too, as it doesn't extend
[16:32:34] <MattyMatt> pocket slider for doors, it's described as
[16:33:27] <MattyMatt> 12 quid per pair
[16:33:30] <MattyMatt> B&Q
[16:40:01] <MattyMatt> The only problem is they'll work with either Z at the ends of X, or Z in the middle. I was hoping this shopping trip would decide that for me
[16:40:04] <tom3p> wow they got B&Q in taiwan, about shelf sliders, the kind used in tool drawer are very strong, you can stand on the extended shelf, made for loads
[16:40:24] <MattyMatt> 45kg it says
[16:41:09] <MattyMatt> and I'm sure much less than that would affect their accuracy
[16:41:45] <tom3p> built for load perp to length, ok for vert?
[16:41:59] <MattyMatt> dunno where to get tool drawer ones. the kind I started with were intended for filing cabinets
[16:43:42] <MattyMatt> these ones I got today are OK vertically too. the filing cabinet ones were springy so I used 2 pairs at 90deg
[16:43:49] <tom3p> googled 'heavy duty drawer slide' lotsa hits, 500lbs 22" http://www.amazon.com/Drawer-Slide-Extension-Heavy-Capacity/dp/B0009ODZMM
[16:44:12] <MattyMatt> put UK in there and you double the price
[16:45:38] <MattyMatt> heh, they are the logical step up from mine :) I could make a heavy duty version without switching to proper rail
[16:46:11] <tom3p> in Britain http://shop.comdir.co.uk/Products.aspx?intGroupID=999
[16:46:16] <MattyMatt> the 2 opposed pairs work great under the table
[16:46:22] <tom3p> k
[16:46:52] <tom3p> if you stumble on a 'Lista' tool cabinet, it will have great slides
[16:48:23] <MattyMatt> heh the first ones I looked at from the UK place were 300 quid each :) they are proper slides tho, not pressed
[16:49:35] <MattyMatt> so, I can translate my design into expensive+accurate too
[16:51:29] <MattyMatt> maybe I'll mill new channels and use these races from the cheap ones, when I upgrade
[16:52:05] <MattyMatt> so I should do that before the pressed ones go sloppy, although I reckon they could be revived in a vice once or twice
[16:55:32] <tom3p> drawer slides are built to extend, eliminate the extending, and they are fully supported, and will last longer ( no idea how to achieve that, but it sounds like long frameworks )
[16:56:17] <MattyMatt> yeah 2 opposed pairs. when the vertical supports are fully extended, the horizontal are fully retracted, &vv
[16:57:23] <MattyMatt> on 2 long beams. it was going to be 4 but it was easy to align 2 sliders per beam
[16:59:34] <MattyMatt> and there's 120mm zone in the middle which is always supported, and the X is right in the middle of that
[17:04:12] <MattyMatt> seems like .par and .stl are the prefered file formats for parts directories. at least that's what reprap uses
[17:15:08] <L84Supper> hmmm Mesa 7i33 only has single +/- 10VDC servo output, not differential out?
[17:40:23] <MattyMatt> looks like it
[17:40:57] <MattyMatt> it would need double the circuitry to make it bridged
[17:41:33] <MattyMatt> or a relay for the crossover
[17:41:46] <MattyMatt> hmm forget that
[17:42:40] <MattyMatt> that would be to sneak +/- out of a single +
[17:57:56] <acemi> acemi is now known as Guest63764
[18:03:25] <pjm> pjm is now known as Guest34011
[18:05:24] <_Poincare> _Poincare is now known as poincare
[18:05:27] <poincare> poincare is now known as Poincare
[18:08:01] <tom3p> if it isnt complimentary, make it so with a single op http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/sloa099/sloa099.pdf
[18:09:05] <L84Supper> was just surprised since this is to control motors and other noisy electromechanical components
[18:11:01] <eric_unterhausen> or you can just hook the - input up to ground
[18:11:53] <L84Supper> or just spin a better board altogether
[18:13:57] <L84Supper> machine controls are rarely elegant.... unfortunately
[18:17:15] <eric_unterhausen> I need to go play with my mesa board, I still don't know if it even works
[18:22:10] <L84Supper> I see that TI still makes you look at two different data sheets for mechanical and electrical specs rather than just one like almost every other semiconductor company
[18:25:21] <L84Supper> hey they are combining them now!
[18:33:42] <MattyMatt> if it was AC you could use an isolation transformer
[18:34:26] <MattyMatt> sorry :) irrelevant
[18:36:00] <L84Supper> heh... controlling some dumb Parker Motion servo drives
[18:37:19] <MattyMatt> in a cheapo dremel, what's the first thing that'll wear out?
[18:37:41] <frallzor> bearings id say
[18:37:48] <skunkworks> or brushes..
[18:37:54] <tarzan_> both
[18:38:06] <MattyMatt> brushes are consumables, if I can get new ones
[18:39:36] <MattyMatt> so it could be worth the effort of rebuilding the plastic one in a metal case with servicable bearings?
[18:40:39] <frallzor> or just buy a good one instead of the hassle =)
[18:41:05] <frallzor> good ones arent that expensive
[18:42:32] <MattyMatt> yeah least hassle is just burn through these 19.99 ones
[18:43:22] <L84Supper> is there a heavy duty Dremel available?
[18:43:48] <MattyMatt> and then I've got an old cast 1/4" D&D drill with no hammer action so nice bearings
[18:43:52] <frallzor> as in usable by hand?
[18:43:54] <MattyMatt> B&D
[18:44:06] <eric_unterhausen> a heavy duty dremel is called a foredom
[18:44:38] <MattyMatt> a proper spindle is where I'll go when this one melts
[18:45:05] <roh> hm.. differential output with mesa should be easy if it can do +-10V
[18:45:06] <MattyMatt> or maybe the B&D will have a go first
[18:45:21] <eric_unterhausen> the proxxon looks fairly nice
[18:45:25] <roh> just use 2 outputs and feed it with the same signal, just one time negated
[18:45:32] <frallzor> I've had a proxxon
[18:45:47] <eric_unterhausen> how did it work?
[18:45:54] <frallzor> worked nicely
[18:46:07] <frallzor> 900-6000rpm is pretty ok
[18:46:45] <MattyMatt> beats B&D 900+2400
[18:46:46] <roh> we just got a proxxon as second spindle. not installed yet, but it does up to 20krpm, which is much better for small stuff than our 3krpm spindle
[18:48:51] <MattyMatt> I've decided to put my Z at the ends of the X, so I have much more freedom in spindle mounting now
[18:49:56] <MattyMatt> X motion is simply the ballscrew actuator, the strongest part in my machine
[18:51:30] <MattyMatt> dammit, I've just worked out I'm free to hacksaw these slides shorter, so Z on X is back in the hat
[18:53:54] <pcw_home> L84Supper: 7I33 is single ended because servo amplifiers almost always have differential inputs
[18:53:56] <pcw_home> nothing in particular is gained by differential outputs in this case.
[18:56:03] <L84Supper> as long as your noise is common mode
[18:56:08] <pcw_home> ( and of course if you dont have differential inputs, differential outputs wont help)
[18:57:37] <MattyMatt> am I a wuss for thinking the biggest advntage is reduced rfi emissions? :)
[18:57:49] <roh> only in theory
[18:58:06] <pcw_home> no RFI from audio frequency analog...
[18:58:23] <MattyMatt> square waves have harmonics
[18:58:35] <roh> the power-outputs generate noise, the control cables are no problem there..
[18:58:42] <pcw_home> no square waves...
[18:58:54] <L84Supper> 7i43 has PWM for servo out, more noise there
[18:59:18] <roh> pwm doesnt neccessarily mean noise. only if you dont put the fitting filters behind it
[18:59:30] <roh> usually a cap + coil combination
[18:59:51] <L84Supper> I'm was looking at using the 7i33 to get the 10VDC +/- differential out
[18:59:54] <roh> and yes.. motor coils do the same
[19:03:17] <L84Supper> yeah, depends on slew rates and how you terminate
[19:03:33] <pcw_home> Would would need a unitiy gain inverter and scale by/2, to get +-10 differential, but if you have a differential input amp
[19:03:34] <pcw_home> theres no real gain
[19:05:05] <MattyMatt> is the amp attached to the motor, or close to the driver?
[19:05:30] <MattyMatt> it's the long wires which should be differential twisted pair
[19:06:41] <MattyMatt> if twisted pair is still fashionable for power cables
[19:07:08] <MattyMatt> speaker cables all seem to be ribbons these days
[19:07:26] <MattyMatt> maybe that's just to get them under the carpet
[19:08:28] <tom3p> a heavy duty dremel is called a foredom or du-more or just die grinder ( made for metal, made for lateral forces, made to keep rpm at load )
[19:09:05] <tom3p> and shielded twisted pair may/maynot be fashionable but its a damn good idea
[19:09:09] <MattyMatt> yeah I looked at die grinders but they were very expensive
[19:09:23] <tom3p> used, with all the shops closing...
[19:09:35] <tom3p> esp one that polished moulds
[19:10:18] <MattyMatt> I don't need long & skinny. a fat router would do
[19:10:40] <L84Supper> this one says "Professional" http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40457
[19:10:59] <tom3p> long & skinny is often the bearing set which is good
[19:13:48] <MattyMatt> if this one breaks in the middle of a job, I can run down to the high street and get a new one
[19:14:19] <L84Supper> 10x "professional" vs 1 proxxon
[19:15:04] <MattyMatt> 1/4" collet would suit my machine better I think, esp once I convert Y to belt drive
[19:15:19] <roh> 1 proxxon is about 80-100E here.. for a 100W one
[19:15:25] <L84Supper> I wonder how many you could return under warranty before they'd start to complain?
[19:15:30] <roh> that one is 30$ which is about 20E
[19:15:49] <roh> and it doesnt note any wattage
[19:15:49] <MattyMatt> yeah mine was 20gbp
[19:15:55] <MattyMatt> 140W 240V
[19:16:04] <MattyMatt> 11k to 36krpm
[19:16:45] <roh> http://proxxon.de/en/28481.html
[19:16:49] <roh> that one we just got
[19:17:00] <roh> target use is milling pcb
[19:18:19] <roh> and we got a http://proxxon.de/en/28500.html to be used 'by hand' in the workshop.. if thats not enough i got another one of the latter. they are quite cheap (50-60E or so
[19:19:02] <roh> MattyMatt where did you get a machine that speced for 20pound?
[19:19:09] <MattyMatt> Wilko!
[19:20:16] <roh> ?
[19:20:19] <MattyMatt> Wilkinsons, the discount shop with half decent tools & hardware
[19:20:42] <roh> ah.. so its some no-name spindle?
[19:20:50] <roh> i guess china (like most stuff nowadays)
[19:21:01] <MattyMatt> it's badged Draper, which was a quality British make but they rebadge some dodgy imports these days
[19:21:09] <roh> got a picture?
[19:21:17] <roh> same here ;)
[19:21:43] <roh> only one think i am sure about: old 'green painted' machinery from local vendors i'd take anytime
[19:21:47] <roh> if i can afford the space
[19:21:48] <L84Supper> http://www.kdntool.com/_sgg/f10000.htm proxxon and mini-mills
[19:22:25] <roh> i was recommended kress spindles, but it seems one needs some kind of special parts to make it fit smaller diameter tools
[19:22:33] <MattyMatt> http://www.drapertools.com/b2c/b2citmdsp.pgm?pp_skmno=40967
[19:22:50] <L84Supper> looks like Harbor Freight toys + a cnc kit installed
[19:23:01] <MattyMatt> yeah 1/8" collet max approx (3 supplied)
[19:26:27] <MattyMatt> there was no flexible drive in my kit
[19:27:36] <L84Supper> eric_unterhausen : how well do the flexible shafts hold up on the Foredom units?
[19:27:48] <eric_unterhausen> I don't know
[19:28:19] <eric_unterhausen> the price has stayed the same for the last 10 years, so there may have been corners cut
[19:29:02] <L84Supper> I like the different handpieces
[19:29:42] <eric_unterhausen> I really need to get a decent compressor so I can use die grinders
[19:32:40] <MattyMatt> my friend has an unused one sitting next to his unused MIG welder. big dreams that man
[19:33:23] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/INGERSOLL-RAND-100-HP-ROTARY-SCREW-AIR-COMPRESSOR-99_W0QQitemZ140357748868QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Air_Compressors?hash=item20adf94884
[19:33:25] <MattyMatt> giant thing looks like a harley
[19:34:02] <eric_unterhausen> don't think I have the power to make air with that
[19:35:08] <L84Supper> but a bargain at ~$2K ;)
[19:35:37] <eric_unterhausen> I'm a little afraid to buy a used one
[19:36:12] <MattyMatt> get a new certified tank
[19:36:55] <eric_unterhausen> lotta bids on the rotary screw ones that are home usable
[19:36:58] <MattyMatt> and the rattiest pump you can find
[19:37:27] <eric_unterhausen> quiet would be nice
[19:37:28] <L84Supper> a company I'm doing design work for got a new one that lasted 1 day before the cast housing cracked
[19:37:34] <coldelectrons> Has anyone ever tried to used a National Instrument PCI-DIO card with EMC? It's supposed to be 8255 compatible
[19:38:03] <roh> have documentation bout it?
[19:38:03] <eric_unterhausen> coldelectrons: I've seen discussion about it
[19:38:42] <coldelectrons> eric_unterhausen: So have I, but I haven't seen anyone come back and say "Success!"
[19:39:02] <eric_unterhausen> I think that's because ppt are so cheap and standard
[19:39:13] <coldelectrons> Too busy making chips, I guess :)
[19:40:28] <eric_unterhausen> I argued against it because nobody would maintain the driver
[19:40:47] <eric_unterhausen> there was some pushback on that idea, but nobody wrote one either AFAIK
[19:42:04] <coldelectrons> I know one problem with that is what gets attached to a 8255 isn't necessarily standard
[19:42:14] <eric_unterhausen> exactly
[19:42:29] <MattyMatt> first LPT were 8255 iirc
[19:42:57] <MattyMatt> ibm pc used up intels overstock of 8080 support chips
[19:43:23] <eric_unterhausen> no they were discrete ttl
[19:44:06] <MattyMatt> ls373, in a socket for when you burnt it out :) yeah seen that too
[19:44:35] <eric_unterhausen> pretty sure you can't build a pc compatible ppt with an 8255
[19:45:37] <oPless> first parallel ports weren't bidirectional iirc
[19:45:50] <MattyMatt> if you hard wired it to LPT1 or LPT2 ports (assuming they are available on pci) it should work
[19:46:05] <MattyMatt> yeah I keep forgetting they are now :)
[19:46:17] <MattyMatt> I assume 8 out and 4 in
[19:47:00] <MattyMatt> so yeah making it bidir & compatible with a PIO would be trickier
[19:47:50] <MattyMatt> unless of course, the first bidir ports followed 8255, which isn't unlikely
[19:48:12] <MattyMatt> pure conjecture. nfi
[19:48:22] <frallzor> anyone know of a nice jog pendant compatible with emc? all I find just seems to work with mach3
[19:48:40] <MattyMatt> logitech psx clone
[19:48:44] <roh> frallzor i built my own
[19:49:10] <frallzor> roh works fine with emc?
[19:49:49] <roh> https://m21.hyte.de/blog/jogbox
[19:49:54] <roh> sure
[19:49:55] <MattyMatt> there's one shown plugged into my board with DRO, in the manual
[19:50:05] <MattyMatt> nfi where to buy one
[19:50:22] <MattyMatt> in english
[19:50:26] <roh> its consisting of a plastic case, 7 holes, 6 encoders, one parport cable where i removed one plug and a few pullups
[19:50:36] <frallzor> roh got schematics and stuff to share?
[19:50:42] <roh> the rest is just emc config and a extra parport
[19:51:07] <roh> frallzor nope.. just soldered if freely.. i can do one
[19:51:11] <SWPadnos> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=158
[19:51:25] <SWPadnos> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=162
[19:52:09] <SWPadnos> I believe someone (like jthornton_ ) made EMC2 configs for those, which might be on the wiki
[19:52:34] <MattyMatt> someone here uses a Logitech successfully
[19:52:37] <frallzor> say I get a cheapo from ebay, shouldnt be that hard to make them work in emc then?
[19:52:44] <SWPadnos> anything that plugs into a parallel port or other I/O and works with Mach will likely work with EMC2, once you do the configuration
[19:53:04] <SWPadnos> if it has a serial or ethernet connection or something, then more work is necessary
[19:53:08] <MattyMatt> he wanted something more professional looking, so I suggested rebuilding the logitech in a square box
[19:53:24] <frallzor> pics?
[19:53:32] <SWPadnos> the Logitech game controllers suffer from userspace problems
[19:53:52] <roh> http://pastebin.ca/1672481
[19:53:56] <SWPadnos> ie, they are not actual encoders, and they can only do things that are controlled by the userspace USB input component
[19:54:11] <roh> thats the essence of my config for manual jogging
[19:54:14] <SWPadnos> so smooth jogging like a good MPG is not possible with them
[19:54:38] <MattyMatt> MPG?
[19:54:52] <frallzor> manual pulse generator
[19:54:53] <SWPadnos> Manual Pulse Generator (an encoder wheel_
[19:54:55] <SWPadnos> )
[19:55:26] <MattyMatt> ah yeah. jog shuttle in video editing speak
[19:55:40] <SWPadnos> no, just the jog
[19:57:53] <MattyMatt> I can have Z & Y handwheels at the front of my machine easily. X could be tricky
[19:57:54] <L84Supper> SWPandos : thanks for that link! 26pin LPT to db25 ribbon cable $3
[19:58:12] <SWPadnos> oh cool. I need some of those :)
[19:58:32] <MattyMatt> I kept all mine when the 486s went in the skip
[19:58:51] <MattyMatt> I knew they'd come in handy
[19:58:53] <SWPadnos> actually I need the opposite - I want to connect an LPT port to a PCB
[20:00:06] <SWPadnos> I think warp9td has those for $2.00
[20:00:16] <SWPadnos> (the maker of thte SmoothStepper)
[20:00:17] <SWPadnos> the
[20:04:51] <coldelectrons> Man, I wish I could get XL or MXL gearbelt by the spool. I'm sure it exists, but for finding who distributes it in my area
[20:04:59] <L84Supper> hmmm "Usually ships in: available with purchase of smooth stepper" maybe they don't sell them separately
[20:05:11] <MattyMatt> Oh no. I'm going to make motor to screw connectors out of wood, against my better judgement
[20:06:04] <MattyMatt> it's either that or grind the shaft on these Workmate vice jacks
[20:06:46] <MattyMatt> they have stamped lugs to retain the washer that acts as the axial bearing
[20:08:50] <coldelectrons> MattyMatt: Are you planning on doing a nice job, or is this something that would show up on thereifixedit.com?
[20:09:28] <MattyMatt> a saw wooden blocks before. they were as wide as the motor and looked daft
[20:11:39] <coldelectrons> I can't throw stones - I have a computer rack made of 2x4s.
[20:11:42] <MattyMatt> these screws are too good to ignore tho. 12mm wide 5mm pitch twin start 2off 150mm threaded + nuts for 10 pound + 0 postage
[20:12:30] <MattyMatt> chinese clone of B&D Junior Workmate
[20:12:48] <MattyMatt> nice set of fold out legs for free
[20:13:08] <MattyMatt> in Wilkos
[20:13:54] <MattyMatt> I want 8" travel, not 6", but I'll live with that until 1st overhaul
[20:15:28] <MattyMatt> these have a good 6" of thread on a 12" shaft, so I can have the shafts connected by belt under the table
[20:16:03] <MattyMatt> for safety, or running on 1 motor
[20:18:01] <MattyMatt> with 2 good motors I reckon it could lift a 10kg tool easily
[20:19:56] <MattyMatt> I've tried to think how to use the channels they come in, but I'll just use the screws for mk1
[20:24:04] <MattyMatt> I suppose the unrolled part of the shaft will still be turnable?
[20:24:46] <MattyMatt> dunno anyone with a lathe, so it's irrelevant
[20:26:58] <MattyMatt> 4mm pitch sorry, 2mm acme thread and twin start
[20:44:43] <roh> ive written down some documentation:
[20:44:44] <roh> https://m21.hyte.de/wiki/JogBox
[20:52:07] <tom3p> roh: so the box is 6 encoders? (looked like rotary switches or pots)
[20:54:53] <roh> yep
[20:55:06] <roh> got the for 1E a piece or so from a surplus dealer
[20:55:16] <roh> pollin.de if youre in europe
[20:55:49] <roh> i will make a picture of the box open and from the pyvcp ui snippet in action and add it later
[21:27:49] <sys2> hmm, is it posible to buy servos etc on ebay like you do stepper motors? .. cant find any servos suitable for cncs
[21:30:22] <oPless> servos... like radio controlled ones?
[21:30:46] <pfred1> oPless like motors
[21:31:05] <pfred1> oPless motors with encoders
[21:31:07] <oPless> pfred1, [21:27] <sys2> hmm, is it posible to buy servos etc on ebay like you do stepper motors? .. cant find any servos suitable for cncs
[21:31:28] <sys2> motors with encoders for the axises of a cnc machine
[21:31:51] <pfred1> I'm sure someone sells servo motors on ebay
[21:32:09] <sys2> ye, but its ALOT of those for radio cars etc
[21:32:24] <pfred1> try refining your search some
[21:32:32] <oPless> * oPless asserts that the only ones he's seen cost $lots
[21:32:53] <pfred1> theres lots of reasons lots of low end users opt for steppers
[21:33:16] <pfred1> performance costs!
[21:33:21] <sys2> mm
[21:40:16] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fanuc-AC-Servo-motor-from-Colchester-2000L-CNC-lathe_W0QQitemZ330376648878QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET?hash=item4cebfb98ae
[21:40:49] <anonimasu> wow
[21:41:02] <anonimasu> how stupid to sell it off...
[21:41:47] <MattyMatt> "I'm rebuilding with mach3"
[21:41:55] <anonimasu> how stupid to do that..
[21:41:56] <MattyMatt> haha, serves him right
[21:41:56] <anonimasu> :D
[21:42:01] <anonimasu> wow
[21:42:09] <pfred1> I hear mach3 has high speed
[21:42:15] <anonimasu> how can you be so stupid..
[21:42:18] <pfred1> peole say it is easy to setup too
[21:42:22] <anonimasu> replacing a good motor that's mounted...
[21:42:30] <anonimasu> with a stepper!
[21:42:38] <anonimasu> * anonimasu shakes he's head
[21:42:47] <anonimasu> yeah steppers can work great..
[21:43:03] <anonimasu> but.. not like servos..
[21:43:42] <anonimasu> did anyone machine anything nice?
[21:44:03] <pfred1> I've machined a few nice things
[21:44:51] <anonimasu> I cut the flaps for the throttle bodies I made in friday
[21:46:07] <MattyMatt> no metalwork today
[21:46:17] <pfred1> me either
[21:46:18] <alex_joni> anonimasu: certainly not like an AC servo
[21:46:24] <anonimasu> alex_joni: indeed :)
[21:46:38] <anonimasu> I cant wait to throw the steppers away from my lathe
[21:46:39] <alex_joni> you can match an older DC servo with a modern stepper
[21:46:46] <alex_joni> :P
[21:47:15] <anonimasu> atleast the old servos are silent
[21:47:28] <anonimasu> :D
[21:47:34] <pfred1> hear of some people getting great performance from steppers them people ain't me though!
[21:48:02] <pfred1> mabe someday I'll make a super drive haven't yet though
[21:48:36] <pfred1> my best to date is like 2,000 RPMs
[21:50:18] <SWPadnos> if it was actually moving anything other than the motor shaft, 2000 RPM is very good
[21:50:50] <pfred1> SWPadnos dream on :)
[21:51:12] <pfred1> no afraid I was just getting the shaft with that one
[21:51:35] <pfred1> SWPadnos really screws don't like going that fast
[21:51:40] <SWPadnos> ok, so divide by 5 or 6 for actual work, maybe more
[21:52:01] <SWPadnos> gears don't mind, so you could have been driving a belt reducer or whatever :)
[21:52:10] <pfred1> well I can reverse at 250 RPM and get some torque up to say 1000?
[21:52:45] <pfred1> I mean for a unipolar driver I don't think I can expect much mre from what I've read
[21:52:58] <SWPadnos> oh - for unipolar that's even better
[21:53:00] <pfred1> I can up the voltage some
[21:53:13] <pfred1> I'm only runing like at 23 now
[21:53:34] <pfred1> my driver chip I'm using claims it is good to 46
[21:54:04] <pfred1> so with that I could get better flux change
[21:54:32] <pfred1> seems to be my big limiting factor with steppers changing the flux like collapsing the field
[21:54:47] <pfred1> I guess tha is where bipolar shines
[21:55:05] <pfred1> slamming reverse polarity into the coil
[21:55:31] <pfred1> eventually I'll make a bipolar drive to check it out
[21:55:38] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:56:00] <pfred1> they're expensive the parts
[21:56:07] <yoyoek1> hello
[21:56:16] <pfred1> just the H bridges will cost me $26
[21:57:09] <SWPadnos> might as well get Gecko G250's at that point
[21:57:21] <celeron55_> i have two bipolar 42V 1.5A drivers from printers, i guess they could do quite high speeds
[21:57:27] <pfred1> ah, no
[21:57:33] <celeron55_> but i don't have anything to feed them data fast enough
[21:57:39] <yoyoek1> mGcodeGenerator is now on 0.1.41 (~300 time faster) 3d cam optimalization
[21:57:48] <celeron55_> they're serially controlled
[21:57:58] <pfred1> celeron55_ you mean a sequencer?
[21:58:05] <pfred1> oh them junks
[21:58:11] <pfred1> allegros?
[21:58:31] <pfred1> sla7042s?
[21:59:09] <celeron55_> you feed them +5V, 12-40V power and serial control data (at up to very fast speeds) and connect a stepper directly to them
[21:59:25] <skunkworks> yoyoek1: cool - have you cut anything more?
[21:59:27] <pfred1> celeron55_ yup
[21:59:49] <pfred1> celeron55_ they're obselete I think all new stuff has built in sequencers
[22:00:08] <pfred1> oh wait bipolar not my thing
[22:00:11] <yoyoek1> skunkworks: only work stuff. it is boring.
[22:01:14] <celeron55_> i think they'd be fairly good, if i could make something to feed the data to them
[22:01:44] <pfred1> parallel to serial encoder maybe?
[22:01:46] <celeron55_> I have a circuit using an AVR but the speeds you can get with it are ridiculous
[22:01:57] <yoyoek1> skunkworks: you use mgcode ?
[22:02:14] <pfred1> celeron55_ TTL typically good to 50 MHz
[22:03:20] <celeron55_> hmm, i think they're LB1946
[22:08:22] <celeron55_> the datasheet is a bit obscure but i think they can take a 500kHz serial clock, and they need 12 bits of data, so that'd be 41kHz step clock
[22:10:41] <pfred1> OK if I have a 35.5 uS clock how many HZ is that?
[22:10:51] <celeron55_> hmm... that's 208 revs/s = 12400rpm on a 200 steps/rev motor, if i didn't mess anything up
[22:10:52] <pfred1> like too many decimal places for me to figure out :)
[22:11:26] <celeron55_> that's 28kHz
[22:11:43] <pfred1> OK that is fastest I ever ran my stepper driver
[22:11:45] <yoyoek1> 74ls192 motorola works on 40Mhz
[22:12:03] <pfred1> but .. it was with a .9 degree motor half stepping it
[22:12:17] <yoyoek1> it is only a step up / down counter bat using ands ors and so on you can maka a driver working on 40Mhz
[22:12:44] <pfred1> the 191 has easier up/down input
[22:13:30] <pfred1> worst 191 could be would be 25 MHz
[22:13:35] <celeron55_> i think i can do that fast serial data on the AVR... maybe it's figuring out what to send which consumes most of the processing time on the AVR
[22:14:07] <tom3p> yoyoek1: 300x! sheesh, nice work
[22:14:49] <celeron55_> i'm not actually very sure about this, it might also be a problem with the external interrupts, as i'm not using the fastest one
[22:15:00] <yoyoek1> tom3p: it generate at present time monki from blender in a blink of the eye :P
[22:15:02] <celeron55_> not so easy to debug an mcu :P
[22:15:59] <celeron55_> well, anyway, i've clearly messed something up with the mcu
[22:16:45] <yoyoek1> yyy pfred1: what with the mos and theirs capasity ? on that resolution ?
[22:17:17] <pfred1> yoyoek1 what is who what?
[22:17:23] <tom3p> yoyoek1: i can imagine a lot of the monkeys covering a wall, each with different expressions
[22:17:26] <pfred1> yoyoek1 my motors?
[22:18:24] <yoyoek1> pfred1: if you building a driver working on a 20-40Mhz how do you make power part? mosfets hawe a problem to work on heigh frequency
[22:18:26] <yoyoek1> yes ?
[22:18:47] <pfred1> yoyoek1 oh I'm not my best speed is 35.5 uS clock
[22:19:08] <pfred1> yoyoek1 but the chip is that fast
[22:19:24] <MattyMatt> ooh mgcodegenerator works in blender? neato
[22:19:46] <yoyoek1> :/
[22:20:00] <yoyoek1> MattyMatt: yes it is a script for blender
[22:20:01] <pfred1> yoyoek1 my stepper motors resonate
[22:20:33] <sys2> any good solutions for manual tool change to get the right depth etc of the tools to continue milling with
[22:20:34] <sys2> ?
[22:21:06] <pfred1> sys2 collets
[22:21:18] <archivist_emc> sys2 use a contact to move up to to check length
[22:21:28] <MattyMatt> my idea was to set a cam up so it looks at a silhouette of the fitted tool
[22:21:50] <pfred1> archivist_emc I thought typically tools were preset into collets?
[22:22:02] <archivist_emc> MattyMatt, you need a telecentric lense for that /me does not like the price of them
[22:22:15] <tom3p> deep mike tip to carriage
[22:22:21] <MattyMatt> calbrate the fisheye
[22:22:32] <archivist_emc> pfred1, only if you have loads of holders
[22:22:35] <sys2> archivist, a contact ?
[22:22:44] <archivist_emc> switch
[22:22:56] <pfred1> archivist_emc well yeah or don't run many different tools
[22:22:59] <sys2> but i dont get it how to "use a contact to move up to check length" ?
[22:23:21] <archivist_emc> see docs for probing
[22:23:38] <MattyMatt> or move the tool down until it earths a (sprung) contact
[22:23:41] <archivist_emc> having preset tools is far better though
[22:23:44] <pfred1> archivist_emc I'd imagine a lot of the power of CNCis being able to make a lot of cuts wit hthe same tool letting software compensate
[22:23:46] <sys2> i was thinking as imple tool, like L shaped that i put next to the say endmill, and push it up until it hits the mill holder then just tighten it...
[22:23:53] <archivist_emc> and use the tool table
[22:24:00] <SWPadnos> sys2, in the sample G-code directory with EMC2, there is a file called something like tool-length-probe.ngc
[22:24:09] <tom3p> yep, a flip up hard stop
[22:24:20] <pfred1> archivist_emc like I love how people mill out holes
[22:24:35] <SWPadnos> you need a switch that the tool can contact, probably mounted on the table
[22:24:36] <sys2> SWPadnos, well stuff like that i would have to add manualy to the gcode generated by programs right? :)
[22:24:49] <SWPadnos> yes, but it's a simple subroutine call
[22:24:50] <pfred1> archivist_emc whenever I drill any hold over an inch in steel I need to use a holesaw
[22:25:23] <sys2> Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at cvs.linuxcnc.org.
[22:25:33] <pfred1> archivist_emc so seeing a CNC machine mill say an 1 1/2 hole is pretty exciting for me
[22:25:52] <SWPadnos> we use git now
[22:25:58] <SWPadnos> git.linuxcnc.org
[22:26:40] <tom3p> 3" dia drills rrr rrr rrr rrr BIG chips and sloshy white water, got torque at low rpm?
[22:27:01] <pfred1> tom3p my machine tops out an an inch
[22:27:04] <tom3p> easy to sharpen :0
[22:27:15] <sys2> SWPadnos, anyhow, its like i just put it after each tool change, it will probe the length and set offset or what? :)
[22:27:22] <SWPadnos> yes
[22:27:34] <SWPadnos> read it - I don't know it well, I only know it exists and works :)
[22:28:04] <pfred1> tom3p you should see what I did to make a cam with a holesaw once
[22:28:24] <tom3p> pfred1: using the slug?
[22:28:35] <pfred1> tom3p yup left the center drill out :)
[22:28:58] <pfred1> tom3p welded two of those to 4 standing up nuts
[22:29:11] <pfred1> tom3p it is my tablesaw fence lock
[22:30:06] <sys2> but then i would have to know the exact height of the switch off the table of the cnc right? :)
[22:30:07] <tom3p> pfred1: uh, nuts off ctr? is that the camming part
[22:30:43] <pfred1> tom3p http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/6926185/hr/2127949448/name/Cam.jpg
[22:30:49] <MattyMatt> sys2, yeah. the posh probes return by spring to set position. by posh I mean they are more $5 on ebay
[22:31:35] <pfred1> tom3p once it was welded up I was like what are the odds I'll get the hole centered?
[22:31:36] <sys2> * sys2 does not order stuff on ebay yet ... first of all its all outside my country (sweden) and 2nd of all i might have to wait months for it to arive :P
[22:32:02] <pfred1> tom3p you know when I drilled through it
[22:32:11] <tom3p> pfred1: gotcha
[22:32:17] <archivist_emc> * archivist_emc is doing an ebay pickup tomorrow
[22:32:30] <pfred1> tom3p I couldn't have if I wanted to ;)
[22:32:55] <celeron55_> * celeron55_ has ordered lots of small stuff from ebay to finland with no problems so far
[22:33:10] <Jymmm> archivist_emc: Stop by I'm oly a few blocks away.
[22:33:12] <Jymmm> only
[22:34:00] <sys2> but in general its like a pipe with a spring and a plate in that say GND one of the parport lines ?
[22:34:07] <sys2> or pull them low atleast
[22:34:17] <pfred1> sys2 whatever you order will probably arrive by sun up
[22:34:42] <archivist_emc> Jymmm, Cardiff south Wales to pick up a lathe base for a friend
[22:34:46] <sys2> cant be to hard to make yourself .. :P
[22:34:52] <anonimasu> sys2: more like 2 weeks :)
[22:35:28] <pfred1> sys2 do you live in the artic circle?
[22:35:40] <sys2> not realy ... sweden
[22:35:59] <anonimasu> sys2: I'm a swede too
[22:35:59] <pfred1> sys2 I thought some of sweeden was in the artic circle
[22:36:00] <sys2> and usaly the shipping from ebay costs ALOT more then $5
[22:36:06] <sys2> as far as ve seen
[22:36:20] <anonimasu> pfred1: I'm fairly near it..
[22:36:50] <pfred1> anonimasu yeah i always thought my car was built in the artic circle
[22:37:02] <anonimasu> howcome?
[22:37:07] <pfred1> anonimasu I have an old Volvo
[22:37:15] <anonimasu> ah.. though sweden's a long country
[22:37:53] <pfred1> * pfred1 has a 1966 P1800S
[22:38:08] <MattyMatt> pcb test contacts are similar, but only 20mm long
[22:38:24] <MattyMatt> but that's good, if you want in on your table
[22:38:42] <sys2> and one more problem is my stupid stepper driver board, only gives me as far as i can tell 4 inputs ... might be enough tho (its for limit inputs realy but should be usablye for tool probing also ? as i need 3 of them for the limiting switches im left with 1 open ...
[22:39:36] <pfred1> sys2 I think standard parallel port is only 5 inputs
[22:39:41] <MattyMatt> I want 6 for limit switches, so I'm looking at multiplexing mine
[22:39:55] <roh> pyvcp and more photos ar eup now
[22:40:02] <roh> eh up.. for the jogbox
[22:40:05] <pfred1> MattyMatt yes the thought has crossed my mind
[22:40:06] <sys2> pfred1, well thats only 4 so :P
[22:40:11] <sys2> http://www.brundin.biz/images/datasheets/4-axisdriverboard.htm
[22:40:13] <sys2> its that driver board
[22:40:23] <sys2> giving 4 limiting inputs 1 for each axis
[22:40:28] <pfred1> sys2 4 could get you 16
[22:40:37] <sys2> pfred1, eh ?
[22:40:42] <pfred1> sys2 74154
[22:40:54] <pfred1> a 4 to 14 multiplexer
[22:41:01] <pfred1> 4 to 16
[22:41:14] <MattyMatt> or just use one to interrupt emc, and fetch which limit from serial or usb
[22:41:17] <pfred1> 4 in 16 out
[22:41:32] <sys2> pfred1, but still i wouldnt need more then 4 inputs :P
[22:41:39] <sys2> 3 for the limits and 1 for the tool probe
[22:41:57] <pfred1> 3 homes
[22:42:05] <sys2> limits can be home siwtches at the same time ?
[22:43:00] <pfred1> for 3 axis don't you need a limiter on each side making 6 switches?
[22:43:01] <MattyMatt> no reason why not, if adjusted nicely
[22:43:21] <pfred1> or you'd never know which side you were limited on
[22:43:27] <MattyMatt> yeah but I think they're usually paralleled
[22:43:51] <MattyMatt> it only really matters if you power on
[22:43:58] <pfred1> yeah not so sure i am going to go that route myself
[22:44:24] <pfred1> that is what I'm doing now is making my BOB
[22:46:22] <sys2> pfred1, have same line say limit .. depending on what way the axis is going emc should be able to know what limit it hit imo :P
[22:47:00] <pfred1> sys2 OK so each pair is serial?
[22:47:02] <celeron55_> but if it is in a hitted-limit state when powered on
[22:47:06] <pfred1> like on each axis
[22:47:09] <celeron55_> then it doesn't
[22:47:41] <pfred1> celeron55_ leave machine parked in the middle I guess?
[22:47:41] <celeron55_> (or over limit)
[22:47:45] <sys2> celeron55_, jog it outside of it and home it ? :)
[22:48:20] <sys2> celeron55_, well if its over limit then even if you have 2 limit switches it wont know where it is :P
[22:48:28] <celeron55_> well, of course, but wouldn't it be nice if it didn't matter? :P
[22:48:29] <pfred1> sys2 this is where I found how I am setting mine up http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf
[22:49:48] <MattyMatt> I want an asychronous link eventually for things like error codes, temperatures, spindle speed settings etc
[22:49:55] <sys2> there it states that a input pin can be "Both limits & Home X"
[22:50:34] <MattyMatt> the machine should eventually be fairly idiotproof
[22:50:43] <MattyMatt> for a machine tool
[22:50:57] <pfred1> MattyMatt there is always a bigger idiot
[22:51:23] <MattyMatt> invisible idiot
[22:51:57] <MattyMatt> make it smart but self destructive. call it Amy
[22:53:34] <MattyMatt> I need a "guard lifted" switch, now I'm building a cabinet
[22:53:38] <pfred1> I sure hope the minimum system requirements are a bit high
[22:53:55] <pfred1> all I have for the project right now is a 500MHz machine
[22:54:01] <MattyMatt> me too
[22:54:12] <pfred1> I'll run like a weak WM
[22:54:18] <pfred1> I won't run gnome
[22:54:19] <MattyMatt> k6-2 is dead, but my coppermine celeron is 500Mhz too
[22:54:37] <pfred1> yeah I had an athlon 800 but it got hit by lightning
[22:54:50] <MattyMatt> it'll run Gnome, whether it can run emc2 at the same time is another matter
[22:55:01] <pfred1> so the 500 is the best I think i have right now
[22:55:25] <MattyMatt> I found an athlon 1.3 at the dump, but it's not playing anymore
[22:55:44] <pfred1> yeah all my systems are dumps finds
[22:55:51] <MattyMatt> still, 512MB sticks of pc133 are scarce :)
[22:56:07] <pfred1> yeah I lost one of those too
[22:56:12] <MattyMatt> and it had a good burner
[22:56:31] <pfred1> I don't get much more than a year out of a burner it seems
[22:56:37] <pfred1> they just drop dead
[22:56:52] <MattyMatt> mine don't, but I don't use them much
[22:57:36] <MattyMatt> I try and avoid using them for reading disks, only burning clean new ones,, but I never manage that
[22:57:47] <pfred1> once i get my homemade machine going I have to work on CNCing my mill
[22:58:52] <MattyMatt> I might just upgrade mine axis by axis
[22:59:21] <pfred1> well I have a benchtop mill but I don't want to CNC it first
[22:59:39] <pfred1> I want to do a homemade machine first
[22:59:53] <pfred1> get all the bugs worked out
[23:00:09] <MattyMatt> yeah
[23:00:21] <pfred1> because the mill is going to be harder
[23:00:26] <MattyMatt> i shoulda made a toy one, like a reprap, first
[23:01:08] <pfred1> stepconf looks nice compared to the old hand editing
[23:02:46] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt doesn't know. still not installed emc
[23:03:09] <pfred1> MattyMatt I've run it in the past just looking at the docs now there are screenshots
[23:03:27] <MattyMatt> I noticed there's a a simulator verion for debian
[23:03:43] <MattyMatt> so I could play with it on this machine
[23:03:45] <pfred1> I'm glad emc moved to ubuntu
[23:03:58] <MattyMatt> from what?
[23:04:02] <pfred1> redhat
[23:04:20] <pfred1> I think that is what it used to be based on
[23:04:23] <MattyMatt> ah cool :) I thought my current beau had been rejected
[23:04:32] <MattyMatt> I love debian
[23:04:38] <pfred1> I don't
[23:04:47] <pfred1> never did tried to plenty of times
[23:04:57] <pfred1> too political
[23:05:05] <yoyoek1> su
[23:05:33] <pfred1> but people are free to choose
[23:05:42] <MattyMatt> haha, he was a few keystrokes from needing a new root pw there :)
[23:07:19] <MattyMatt> I don't get into the politics.
[23:07:36] <pfred1> I do just not over OSes
[23:08:17] <MattyMatt> I've never pushed for any changes. I guess that's where it starts
[23:09:14] <pfred1> man I am stoked to see this all put together
[23:11:56] <MattyMatt> it's getting a slog for me now. it's taking far longer than I planned
[23:12:20] <pfred1> pfft I dropped this project for like 4 years
[23:12:36] <pfred1> had to do other things just found time now to finish it
[23:12:58] <pfred1> so I'm like whats the rush?
[23:13:01] <MattyMatt> I'm running out of time. need a job asap
[23:13:22] <pfred1> well CNC isn't going anywhere do what you have to do
[23:13:45] <pfred1> that is what I had to do
[23:13:51] <MattyMatt> yep, I was kinda hoping to generate income with a working machine before xmas
[23:14:15] <pfred1> heh that was my mindset the first time around and it didn't go well
[23:14:25] <pfred1> I wanted it done asap
[23:14:32] <pfred1> in the end things just got messed up
[23:15:40] <pfred1> this time I am being careful about every detail
[23:15:45] <MattyMatt> yeah I coulda cut the slots for the sliding gantry this afternoon, but I held back for another think
[23:17:18] <pfred1> two things totally messed up my last attempt
[23:29:03] <MattyMatt> I'm pretty sure I'm decided on putting the Z in the pillars, at least
[23:29:03] <pfred1> this time I'm going one piece at a time
[23:29:03] <pfred1> was going to say one step
[23:29:03] <pfred1> * pfred1 is stepper happy!
[23:29:03] <MattyMatt> what 2 things?
[23:29:03] <pfred1> one the power supply I was using had a glitch in it
[23:29:03] <pfred1> something that to this day I don't understand
[23:29:03] <pfred1> and two I was unable to squelch the noise in my motor drivers
[23:29:03] <pfred1> together they made my motor drivers really raggy
[23:29:03] <pfred1> I was putting them together when they were really two different problems
[23:29:03] <MattyMatt> drivers are pretty much commodity items now
[23:29:03] <pfred1> so I wasn't solving either of them
[23:29:03] <pfred1> I'm not interested in someone elses work
[23:29:03] <MattyMatt> I'm happy to use quality tools
[23:29:03] <pfred1> I'm happy to make quality tools
[23:29:03] <MattyMatt> I gave up electronics as a hobby when it became hard to match the quality for the price
[23:29:03] <celeron55_> you should be, it's the reason why we have open source, too - just copy, paste and edit a bit 8)
[23:29:03] <pfred1> my 3 axis drivers will cost me $60
[23:29:03] <celeron55_> (should be interested in someone elses work, that is)
[23:29:03] <pfred1> celeron55_ not for something I can do myself
[23:29:04] <MattyMatt> as newton said, if I see further it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants
[23:29:04] <pfred1> long as he giants do't have their hands out that [#emc] long as he giants do't have their hands out that
[23:29:04] <celeron55_> well, i mean that you should google everything you can find about what you're doing and see if you can benefit from that, first
[23:29:04] <pfred1> eah good for newton
[23:29:04] <celeron55_> when making electronics or software
[23:29:04] <celeron55_> or probably anything
[23:29:04] <pfred1> oh sure i get datasheets
[23:29:04] <pfred1> I'm not cracking the chips open to see what makes them tick
[23:29:04] <pfred1> well unless I blow one up
[23:29:04] <MattyMatt> asics spoiled the hobby, but now with fpga it's fun again, once you've tooled up for smt
[23:29:04] <pfred1> I looked a lot for a good BOB schematic I didn't find aything that suited me
[23:29:04] <pfred1> I had to do SMT at work so I choose not to do it for fun
[23:29:04] <celeron55_> well, then indeed you have to design one for yourself :P
[23:29:04] <pfred1> celeron55_ from what I've read a lot you buy can be crap too!
[23:29:04] <MattyMatt> I want to wind my own motors eventually :)
[23:29:04] <MattyMatt> linear steppers for a start
[23:29:04] <MattyMatt> they look easy
[23:29:04] <pfred1> celeron55_ my BOB is optically isolated then there is a driver
[23:30:35] <celeron55_> i've been designing and building a fighting robot which is so exotic you can't find much information on the designing of such... it's fun because you simply have to do it yourself, because the stuff needed isn't commercially available :P
[23:31:00] <MattyMatt> to civilians
[23:31:12] <pfred1> celeron55_ you mean battlebot?
[23:32:38] <celeron55_> that stuff http://www.assembly.org/summer09/asm/gallery/robosota
[23:34:01] <pfred1> celeron55_ yes
[23:34:12] <pfred1> they're remote controlled aren't they?
[23:34:37] <celeron55_> practically all of them, yes
[23:34:50] <pfred1> I didn't think any weren't
[23:35:00] <celeron55_> it's not necessary, though, in finland you can use 2x the weight if it runs on its own
[23:35:02] <pfred1> glorified radio control cars if you ask me
[23:35:56] <celeron55_> technically some of them are just that
[23:36:39] <pfred1> once some popular shaped were developed I thought it was all pretty cut and dried in it
[23:37:09] <MattyMatt> wedge shaped was becoming prevalent in UK robot wars
[23:37:23] <pfred1> yes they seemed successful
[23:37:34] <MattyMatt> usually with hydaulic fork lift
[23:37:42] <pfred1> I guess it depends on the competition
[23:37:58] <pfred1> not pneumatic?
[23:38:32] <celeron55_> we've been having really boring fights in the 6kg and 13,6kg classes in here, because we've had an arena with no walls, though the 150g and 450g fights are very fun to watch
[23:38:38] <MattyMatt> dunno. they were small and I dunno if co2 cyl was legal
[23:38:58] <celeron55_> the robots really break each others in pieces sometimes
[23:39:15] <MattyMatt> I like robocup. that's no-holds-barred
[23:40:56] <MattyMatt> bipeds win in nature
[23:41:13] <pfred1> MattyMatt not in the middle of a 4 lane they don't ;)
[23:41:38] <celeron55_> i'm doing a translational drift robot. that's a kind of robot that spins the whole of itself very fast and moves at the same time
[23:41:45] <pfred1> my cat is so fast its amazing
[23:42:02] <MattyMatt> weight for weight they do. try crashing into an elephant (on its hind legs, to comply with bipedality)
[23:42:28] <MattyMatt> that'd probably be a draw
[23:42:29] <celeron55_> i only know of something like two of this kind around the world
[23:42:39] <pfred1> biped is a lousy form of locomotion
[23:43:01] <MattyMatt> it's great for fighting while locomoting tho
[23:43:31] <MattyMatt> arachnoid should be good too
[23:43:43] <pfred1> MattyMatt tell it to Siegfried
[23:44:19] <pfred1> actually he was the one who got away
[23:44:27] <MattyMatt> wheels are only best for high speed, and in a small arena you can't get that
[23:46:18] <MattyMatt> celeron55_ there was one in robot wars that did very well but met a wedge+forklift in the final
[23:46:32] <celeron55_> are you sure
[23:46:34] <MattyMatt> it tipped the top
[23:46:55] <pfred1> MattyMatt yeah I thought once that one design came out it pretty much wiped all other designs out
[23:47:06] <celeron55_> most people confuse these robots to ones that just spin the top
[23:47:14] <pfred1> unless the operator was a total geek
[23:47:15] <celeron55_> and have normal drive system at the bottom
[23:47:17] <MattyMatt> this was 2 wheels
[23:47:51] <celeron55_> i know that in robot wars there has been one that used a lawn mover engine
[23:47:57] <celeron55_> that is just a basic FBS robot
[23:48:03] <celeron55_> nothing like what i'm building
[23:48:12] <pfred1> down boy! http://www.rd.com/images/rdmag/people/27650SiegfriedRoy.jpg
[23:48:21] <pfred1> nice kitty ...
[23:48:37] <MattyMatt> I said weight for weight :) tigers can be 800lb
[23:48:54] <MattyMatt> or 800kg even, I forget
[23:48:56] <pfred1> MattyMatt what you gonna do throw ultra slim fast at it?
[23:49:33] <pfred1> MattyMatt and there is no possible way you gonna win a foot race with my house cat
[23:49:51] <MattyMatt> a 200lb man would beat a 200lb cat in a faceoff
[23:50:04] <pfred1> yeah with an elephant gun
[23:50:21] <MattyMatt> give the man a pair of shoes
[23:50:37] <pfred1> no way
[23:50:57] <pfred1> without a weapon you're meow mix
[23:51:21] <MattyMatt> well yeah OK, cats are armed and we're not, so we'd get lacerated. the cat would lose unless it got lucky bite tho
[23:52:00] <pfred1> I'm pretty sure the Romans have tested this theory out throughly
[23:52:01] <MattyMatt> we can use our knees to crush etc
[23:55:37] <MattyMatt> as you can't use projectile weapons in these robot contests, I still say limbs are better than wheels
[23:56:06] <pfred1> MattyMatt seems like the spinners are the best weapons
[23:56:32] <pfred1> though i saw once with a carbide circular saw blade that did some damage
[23:56:32] <MattyMatt> a flat scoop can flip it
[23:56:56] <pfred1> I wonder if they'd allow a hopping robot?
[23:57:24] <pfred1> that could be nasty hop up and crush
[23:58:20] <MattyMatt> mount my 14" saw flat with a "come & get me" sign
[23:58:47] <ds3> wonder how well would a few inches of HDPE with embedded diamond dust fair against a carbide saw blade
[23:58:52] <MattyMatt> that thing wants to eat my fingers, I can tell
[23:59:33] <MattyMatt> HDPE fibre? like that starlite body armour?