#emc | Logs for 2009-11-14

[00:10:04] <frallzor> * frallzor has a rule never to trust the reseller
[00:17:57] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[00:53:34] <Jymmm> I can read ppl pretty good.
[00:53:49] <Jymmm> BigJohnT: You old dawg you!
[00:54:08] <BigJohnT> ha!
[00:54:29] <BigJohnT> on the wifes laptop watching bones
[00:54:40] <Jymmm> BigJohnT: Hey, do you do a LOT of smoking?
[00:54:51] <BigJohnT> almost every weekend
[00:55:17] <BigJohnT> gotta install a machine tomorrow... so smoking is out
[00:55:24] <Jymmm> BigJohnT: Any tips for a beginner?
[00:55:31] <Jymmm> who has nothing
[00:55:38] <BigJohnT> what are you looking to smoke?
[00:55:45] <Jymmm> BigJohnT: weed.
[00:56:00] <BigJohnT> can't help with that
[00:56:10] <toastydeath> do you have any smoking apparatus or smoking consumables
[00:56:12] <Jymmm> BigJohnT: dont bogart that joint my friend.
[00:56:30] <BigJohnT> smoked jerky or wings yea
[00:56:48] <Jymmm> BigJohnT: I dun know, baby back ribs, slab of beef, whatever I cna get at the store.
[00:57:18] <BigJohnT> I have a Bradley smoker that I highly modified
[00:57:26] <Jymmm> why?
[00:57:37] <Jymmm> why was it modded?
[00:57:43] <BigJohnT> the original on is ok for higher temps but sucks when you do jerky
[00:58:06] <BigJohnT> temperature control, circulation fan, extra racks
[00:58:19] <BigJohnT> PLC controls it all :)
[00:58:30] <Jymmm> What the hell is this, a smoker or environmental testing?!
[00:58:52] <BigJohnT> ahhh it is an uber JT smoker
[00:58:53] <Jymmm> ^chamber
[00:59:19] <Jymmm> Well, lets say the Junior version
[00:59:44] <BigJohnT> the Bradley smoke generator is the heart fo the smoker
[01:00:13] <Jymmm> Again, this isn't an environment testing chamber... no generators
[01:00:47] <Jymmm> how about wood you like? duriations, good cut of meat for first try, etc.
[01:01:07] <Jymmm> Kinda a try before doing a lot of investment
[01:01:10] <BigJohnT> some recipes here http://suburb.semo.net/jet1024/index.html
[01:02:10] <Jymmm> BigJohnT: All the links goto the same place "About This Place"
[01:02:17] <BigJohnT> for low and slow temperature control is the name of the game
[01:02:36] <BigJohnT> go to food
[01:03:03] <BigJohnT> Jymmm: have you been drinking?
[01:03:27] <Jymmm> No, I went to "Smoking"
[01:03:50] <Jymmm> "Hunting" is the same thing
[01:03:53] <BigJohnT> some of the links are not done yet
[01:04:35] <BigJohnT> anyhow all you need is a chamber a heat source and wood chips to smoke.
[01:11:45] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[01:13:52] <BigJohnT> dinner time here ttul
[01:30:07] <ednspace> is there a way to log a latency-test to a file
[01:30:21] <ednspace> so I can see if I have a periodic problem
[01:30:26] <ednspace> ?
[01:39:03] <ednspace> I believe I figured it out!
[01:39:15] <ednspace> rtai/testsuite/kern/latency
[01:39:18] <ednspace> and ./run
[01:41:39] <ednspace> I tried the one in the user directory
[01:41:51] <ednspace> and its a no go
[01:42:27] <ednspace> the one in the kern directory works though so good
[01:49:44] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:52:11] <leonardo> Hello everybody, i was wondering if it is possible to enable the acpi support to power off the machine with the button in the ubuntu emc distribution without recompiling ?
[01:52:11] <leonardo> thanks in advance
[02:22:47] <LawLoCide> I don't have a question in regards to software but since CNC people are here I think someone might know the answer, does anyone know where I can purchase blocks of HDPE?
[02:24:50] <LawLoCide> anyone?
[02:24:51] <LawLoCide> S
[02:25:47] <toastydeath> did you check mcmaster and msc
[02:26:39] <LawLoCide> no but I will, actually I need to go now - thanks for the suggestions(I just looked them up, I forgot places like those existed)
[02:26:40] <LawLoCide> bye
[03:04:48] <Dave911> >>know where I can purchase blocks of HDPE
[03:04:51] <Dave911> Google "plastic distributors"
[03:05:10] <pfred1> I bought some on ebay
[03:28:24] <tom3p> BigJohnT: nice site, when you get it goin, look at this for spicy sausages http://www.khiewchanta.com/archives/thai-sausages/ them lil' green chiles are hot sombitches!
[03:50:56] <cradek> yay, the bridgeport is back together and working again
[03:52:01] <pfred1> poor bridgeport
[03:52:19] <pfred1> just goes to show it doesn't pay to make too good machinery
[03:53:29] <cradek> it's only 25, jeez, shouldn't be worn out yet
[03:53:29] <cradek> that's pretty much brand new.
[03:54:05] <pfred1> I've run some machine tools from like the 1900s
[03:54:24] <pfred1> and they were still doing production
[03:54:45] <pfred1> we had this one horizontal mill from 1865 I think it was
[03:54:59] <cradek> yeah for a manual machine early 1980s IS brand new
[03:55:01] <pfred1> thing was beautiful
[03:55:06] <cradek> but for CNC it's pretty darn old
[03:55:16] <pfred1> it was all mechanical
[03:55:28] <cradek> some of those with the power feeds etc are really amazing
[03:55:39] <pfred1> yup with the driveshafts all over it
[03:55:51] <pfred1> so namy levers
[03:55:52] <cradek> so many extra parts for want of some motors and encoders
[03:56:25] <pfred1> heck everytime the CNC machine got fired up only one guy in the shop would get close to it
[03:56:40] <pfred1> and he'd puzzle over the notebook for days
[03:56:45] <cradek> heh
[03:56:53] <cradek> I bet everyone's been there a few times
[03:56:56] <pfred1> me i went nowheres near it
[03:57:15] <pfred1> we hardly used the thing
[03:57:28] <pfred1> I think it was for one job in the shop
[03:57:42] <eric_unterhausen> so we had our 120Hz set for a year and then a friend who spent the last 6 months reverse engineering TV sets saw it and said "that's running at 60Hz." Sure enough, the default is 60Hz, don't ask me why. So he changed the setting to 120Hz and it hurts twice as much now.
[03:57:47] <pfred1> guy i used to know got a CNC-1 given to him
[03:57:55] <cradek> cnc is all about cutting arcs... manuals are just fine for many things.
[03:59:01] <pfred1> we had this one mill a Milwaukee #3 thing looked like the prow of a battleship
[03:59:10] <pfred1> you literally walked into it to run it
[03:59:45] <pfred1> something like that I don't think I'd want it under computer control!
[03:59:58] <pfred1> if things messed up it'd eat your house
[04:00:32] <pfred1> I mean I'd run it with a 3" hogging mill on it and it'd go through steel like it was balsa wood
[04:08:36] <eric_unterhausen> there are cnc machines that could hog a new house out of a big enough piece of metal
[04:09:03] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen not in my house there won't ever be!
[05:13:19] <L84Supper> having acpi on will kill the latency
[05:13:36] <roh> anybody here speaking german?
[05:15:08] <roh> anyways.. we wrote together some stuff about our mill and the toolpath parts and put it together on http://camgeeks.de/
[05:17:09] <pfred1> roh what do you use for CAM?
[05:19:04] <roh> heekscam
[05:19:25] <pfred1> roh I'll have to Google that thank you.
[05:19:47] <roh> its linked on http://camgeeks.de/software.html
[05:20:03] <pfred1> roh yes but I don't read german
[05:20:17] <roh> http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/ and http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/
[05:20:31] <roh> the cnc is a plugin into the cad
[05:21:02] <pfred1> bookmarked
[05:21:16] <pfred1> roh I'm still in he process of building my machine now
[05:22:29] <pfred1> this guy needs a squeeze bottle for his coolant milk
[05:22:43] <roh> *g*
[05:22:49] <pfred1> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lpgMldGi1O4/Sl-EwDxhxWI/AAAAAAAAALQ/8vEvuHbhuvA/s1600-h/IMAG0215.JPG
[05:23:03] <pfred1> thats just plain old silly there!
[05:23:39] <pfred1> that and some parallels probably wouldn't kill him to have either
[05:24:09] <pfred1> this guy i mean i thought some of the stuff I did was rough!
[05:26:32] <pfred1> I like this guys style!
[05:26:33] <roh> well.. we are learning bit by bit ourselfes still, but i think it can always be 'uglier' ;)
[05:26:38] <pfred1> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lpgMldGi1O4/Sl-Ewk5GPlI/AAAAAAAAALg/ly8yt9DdVtY/s1600-h/IMAG0224.JPG
[05:26:49] <tom3p> roh: this group, is there 1 machine that several people work on? ( and i read it when you posted it on #cam, but couldnt find out what a SuperBox was )
[05:26:56] <pfred1> it dont get much uglier than that I'm afraid
[05:27:15] <pfred1> that looks like a still out of Quake or something
[05:27:56] <roh> tom3p yes, we only got one mill. its a small shared workshop (<70squaremeters) with different tools
[05:28:12] <pfred1> roh pictures?
[05:28:15] <tom3p> roh: thats a very good idea, esp in a city.
[05:28:19] <pfred1> * pfred1 loves shop pictures
[05:28:31] <roh> pfred1 i think on raumfahrtagentur.org we have more
[05:29:12] <pfred1> wheres Vince with a ShamWoW!
[05:29:35] <pfred1> "You know the Germans always make good stuff!"
[05:31:35] <tom3p> so whats a SuperBox? a parallel port interface?
[05:32:06] <roh> tom3p the #SuperBox is a metal box with 2 powersupplies (for more current) and 3 stepperdrivers are + a board to connect them and the sockets to the parport
[05:32:37] <roh> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/File:Raumfahrtagentur_cnc_mill.jpg is a old picture
[05:32:45] <roh> the box top right
[05:33:44] <tom3p> ah, nice, like a rack mount
[05:34:33] <pfred1> roh well you showed me yours want to see mine?
[05:34:38] <roh> hrr
[05:34:55] <roh> which reminds me.. need to make new pictures of the milling room.
[05:35:24] <tom3p> the spindle has a control panel, can the spindle be controlled by emc also?
[05:35:55] <pfred1> roh how much current is "more current"?
[05:36:11] <pfred1> roh like how much current does your machine use?
[05:36:22] <tom3p> http://www.optimum-machines.com/products/milling-machines/bf-20-vario/index.html
[05:37:02] <pfred1> oh I thought was for the CNC
[05:37:06] <roh> pfred1 for the steppers
[05:37:14] <pfred1> roh yes
[05:37:27] <roh> pfred1 the psu are both 48V and connected in parallel
[05:37:31] <pfred1> * pfred1 has a Rong-Fu 32
[05:38:26] <pfred1> roh yes 48V is voltage current is amperage you could always say wattage I can do the math
[05:38:31] <tom3p> 1500$
[05:38:50] <roh> pfred1 dunno right now. would need to check.
[05:38:57] <pfred1> roh ah OK
[05:39:00] <roh> tom3p thats for the manual mill. no cnc
[05:39:13] <pfred1> my mill cost me $600
[05:39:16] <roh> tom3p and without taxes
[05:39:20] <pfred1> or was it 800?
[05:39:28] <pfred1> I donno was quite a few years ago now
[05:39:56] <tom3p> did your group buy a cnc mill or convert it yourself?
[05:41:54] <roh> we bought it as cnc
[05:42:02] <roh> http://syil.com.cn/index_en.asp is the manuf. afaik
[05:42:47] <pfred1> woo I dig the name, Speedmaster!
[05:43:13] <pfred1> I think i met him once at a biker convention
[05:44:05] <pfred1> wow! if I tried to run my machine at 24,000 RPM spindle it'd holy handgrenade on me!
[05:44:18] <tom3p> i'd like to see them w/o the sheet metal ( syil certainly has gone slick )
[05:45:01] <roh> the syil page doesnt show the machine anymore. seems to be last years model already ;)
[05:45:30] <pfred1> those are some huge nozzles for that tiny bit
[05:45:54] <roh> to be fair, we first thought its a good idea to have a machine with handshweels, so we can learn how to use them that way also, but in the end.. if i need to decide that again, i'd vote 'no handwheels' now.
[05:46:32] <pfred1> roh well it is good to get a feel for the materials speeds and feedrates
[05:46:52] <pfred1> roh you do know how to setup for cuts right?
[05:47:13] <pfred1> roh like different materials and bit diameters need different speeds
[05:47:32] <roh> pfred1 i am aware of the complications. got some people here and loads of books.
[05:47:41] <pfred1> PI X DIA X RPM / 12 = SFPM
[05:47:52] <pfred1> all you need to know is material SFPM
[05:47:54] <roh> i think ive learned the most important bits by now.
[05:48:11] <pfred1> like what you usually work aluminum?
[05:48:17] <roh> sfpm? everything metric here.
[05:48:47] <pfred1> I don't know the right speeds for aluminum in metric it is all the same
[05:49:01] <tom3p> in heekscnc, he actually asks the brinnel hardness of the material, asks carbide/hss tools, teeth, and tries to figure a feedrate
[05:49:18] <pfred1> feed is different than speed
[05:49:40] <roh> speed depends on the cutter, and we usually start at a feedrate of 120 to 200 mm/min in the gcode and start at a feed-override of 50% and up it gradually
[05:50:02] <roh> tom3p thats new stuff.. havent tried that out yet
[05:50:10] <pfred1> but the most important thing is the right spindle speed
[05:50:31] <tom3p> its so new it doesnt work yet, but it was nice hat he's thinking that way
[05:50:39] <pfred1> you don't just crank it all the way up and let it fly you know?
[05:51:06] <pfred1> the cutter has to work at a certain surface speed
[05:51:26] <pfred1> depending on the material and cutter composition
[05:51:41] <roh> pfred1 :) .. we're amateurs, but the first blood has dried up and the cutters got replaced.
[05:51:56] <pfred1> roh yeah what I'm trying to teach you will make it work
[05:52:10] <pfred1> roh for every material and cutter there is only one right speed
[05:52:30] <pfred1> it is called cutter surface speed calculation
[05:52:55] <pfred1> like if I'm off by 20 RPM working steel it screws the cut up
[05:52:57] <roh> doesn't that vary with diameter and toolpath also?
[05:53:10] <pfred1> of course it matters the diameter
[05:53:15] <pfred1> <pfred1> PI X DIA X RPM / 12 = SFPM
[05:53:21] <pfred1> DIA is tool diameter
[05:53:41] <pfred1> PI X DIA is circumfrence
[05:53:42] <roh> why /12?
[05:53:55] <pfred1> DIA in inch 12 changes to feet
[05:54:03] <roh> ouch
[05:54:18] <pfred1> well I'm sure there is a metric equilivalent
[05:54:24] <pfred1> beats trying to thread metric on a lathe
[05:54:35] <pfred1> which is techically impossible to do :)
[05:54:54] <pfred1> so don't go there with metric so much better high and nightyness
[05:55:07] <roh> doesnt that only depend on the gears?
[05:55:18] <pfred1> but anyways steel is 100 SFPM using HSS
[05:55:32] <pfred1> no metric threads run by ratio
[05:55:35] <pfred1> not length
[05:55:43] <pfred1> they're garbage ;)
[05:56:09] <pfred1> learn how to do surface speed calcs
[05:56:21] <pfred1> and you'll be like wholly crap finally it is working
[05:56:42] <roh> it mostly is for now
[05:56:42] <pfred1> stuff will make chips galore and finish will be like a mirror
[05:57:02] <roh> did most of the hacking on emc to have our repstrap working lately
[05:57:03] <pfred1> well if you not figuring out your surface bit speed you just getting lucky
[05:57:15] <tom3p> the larger syil machine use hiwin rails and bearing, not dovetail, quite sophisticated for hobby machines.
[05:57:47] <pfred1> roh you use same bit all the time?
[05:58:09] <roh> bits?
[05:58:13] <pfred1> tool
[05:58:18] <pfred1> cutter
[05:58:20] <roh> nope. we have different ones
[05:58:33] <pfred1> roh OK you change speeds between them?
[05:58:39] <tom3p> fenn: the syil site linked to the NIST of japan, the NAIST http://www.naist.jp/index_j.html
[05:58:40] <roh> of course
[05:58:53] <pfred1> roh OK so bigger bit you go slower right?
[05:59:29] <pfred1> roh because at same RPM bigger bit has faster peripheral speed
[05:59:34] <roh> sure
[05:59:52] <pfred1> roh yeah well with calculation you can know exactly the right speed to run
[05:59:59] <roh> you wouldnt believe how many good books there are about the hands-on part of milling ;)
[06:00:17] <pfred1> I don't need to
[06:00:27] <pfred1> I learned from germans that predate the war
[06:00:29] <roh> especially the school and toolmakers ones from the GDR
[06:00:51] <pfred1> that can tell what kind of steel it is by smelling it!
[06:00:56] <roh> (former) gdr
[06:01:04] <roh> hrhr
[06:01:20] <pfred1> Ok your loss if you never want to know how to do it right
[06:01:33] <tom3p> hoho a swag got me this http://www.naist.jp/index_e.html
[06:01:41] <pfred1> because with machining theres the right way and every other way
[06:02:44] <pfred1> tom3p engrish
[06:06:43] <tom3p> pfred1: i was apprenticed to old volkswagen guys, they'd make you file rounds and whack you with the file if it was round
[06:07:02] <tom3p> volks during the war
[06:07:37] <tom3p> 'kindershiessen' was all you'd do, break edges, drill water lines...
[06:08:04] <pfred1> yeah I got lucky the shop foreman gave me any job and if i could do it I did it
[06:08:09] <tom3p> untill they trusted you and you began to mill, then grind
[06:08:11] <pfred1> and pretty much I could do it
[06:08:34] <pfred1> I'll show you what i used to make let me find one
[06:09:00] <pfred1> http://www.dempseyandco.com/DSCN0117.JPG
[06:09:13] <pfred1> I've made a few of those!
[06:09:24] <pfred1> few thousand
[06:09:34] <tom3p> radius dresser
[06:09:45] <pfred1> well
[06:09:53] <pfred1> it can do any angle od radius
[06:10:00] <pfred1> or angle even
[06:10:05] <pfred1> or combination
[06:10:18] <tom3p> yah, i used them to grind electrodes
[06:10:28] <pfred1> thats an old one there
[06:10:35] <pfred1> that one I didn't make!
[06:10:51] <tom3p> but id' ruf the form in by eye with a norbirtie stick, so the diamond didnt do so much work
[06:11:03] <tom3p> norbrite
[06:11:16] <pfred1> eally selling the diamonds was all that was keeping the company alive when I worked there
[06:11:29] <pfred1> the shop was just the playroom for the founder
[06:11:52] <pfred1> poor old Henry
[06:12:12] <pfred1> but yeah we'd rebuild them and the boss had me do that
[06:12:29] <pfred1> I'd have to take it all apart and resurface the whole thing and reset it all back up
[06:12:40] <pfred1> so it was like new again
[06:13:03] <tom3p> remeber feeling the wheel with you finger, to see if there were any single stones sticking out? then touching it with the crap 6"scale to remove the 1 or 2 stones that did stick out?
[06:13:11] <pfred1> that only cost $3,600 to do :)
[06:13:42] <pfred1> or wait no the new ones were $3,600 a rebuild was only $600
[06:13:54] <pfred1> but I'd do like 4 a day
[06:14:18] <pfred1> good ole jack Shit tools
[06:14:42] <pfred1> that or I'd do production making the clamps
[06:15:59] <pfred1> I wish I could find a pic of the clamps they were engenius
[06:17:20] <pfred1> http://www.jstool.com/WRKHLDG.htm
[06:21:08] <tom3p> nice work, gotta go
[06:58:45] <MattyMatt> do any lathes link spindle speed to cross-slide position, to maintain linear velocity?
[07:01:15] <MattyMatt> if 20rpm off can ruin a cut, it seems to be the only proper way to cut a taper
[07:01:54] <pfred1> MattyMatt I was talking about milling
[07:02:21] <MattyMatt> ah ok
[07:02:55] <pfred1> not to say that itisn't applicable to lates too
[07:03:01] <pfred1> lathes too even
[07:03:22] <pfred1> MattyMatt and speeds are dependant on the machine too
[07:03:35] <pfred1> MattyMatt I ain't ot the worlds greatest machine
[07:03:58] <pfred1> MattyMatt the crappier the machine the more sensitive it is to cutting speeds
[07:04:16] <pfred1> harmonics and all of that
[07:05:47] <MattyMatt> yeah. I put my spindle (cheap demel) on top of my machine and it resonated like a guitar. I need to watch that when I reinforce it
[07:07:06] <MattyMatt> my plan at one stage had bicycle spokes as stiffeners, so they be tuned
[07:08:13] <pfred1> MattyMatt mass is the key
[07:08:29] <MattyMatt> yeah machine gets heavier daily
[07:08:45] <pfred1> theres a reason machine tools are massive and it ain't because machinists fancy fat chix
[07:09:08] <MattyMatt> now the table is on 3x3" timbers, it made the gantry look weak, so I added more wood to them :)
[07:09:56] <MattyMatt> I need some slotted angle for fillets
[07:10:47] <pfred1> MattyMatt Versa-Angle?
[07:11:21] <MattyMatt> that's the stuff. it was called handyangle here when still branded
[07:11:24] <pfred1> nothing soaks up vibrations quite like cast iron
[07:11:32] <pfred1> yeah there are different names
[07:12:14] <pfred1> well to reduce vibrations need to take lighter cuts soetimes
[07:12:24] <MattyMatt> I'm telling myself the wooden parts are patterns for the cast version :)
[07:12:50] <pfred1> I've been wondering lately why more homebrewers aren't using fiberglass
[07:13:12] <pfred1> fiberglass is like superduck tape
[07:13:16] <MattyMatt> you need a large well ventilated shed to do fiberglass
[07:13:31] <pfred1> yeah?
[07:13:45] <pfred1> I never noticed the fumes to be too noxious
[07:13:59] <MattyMatt> duck tape sticks to anything forever. fiberglass doesn't. it won't even stick to itself once it's dry
[07:14:08] <pfred1> really?
[07:14:35] <pfred1> oh i see what you mean if you lay fiberglass onto a dry layer
[07:14:42] <pfred1> no you have to rough it up first
[07:15:03] <MattyMatt> yeah. delamination unless you build it all in one continuous operation
[07:15:04] <pfred1> but it you layer tacky you can just keep going
[07:15:22] <pfred1> I've done lots of fibeglass
[07:15:37] <pfred1> got friends who do boats professionally
[07:15:45] <pfred1> gelcoat the worls
[07:15:51] <pfred1> the works even
[07:16:28] <pfred1> people cry about the dust but well I can't say as that bothers me either
[07:16:47] <pfred1> sanding it
[07:17:06] <MattyMatt> it does stink rather, and homebrewers often have delicate people in the home
[07:17:31] <MattyMatt> in my case momma
[07:17:54] <pfred1> yeah i usually do all my fiberglassing outside
[07:18:15] <pfred1> on cars or boats mostly
[07:18:38] <pfred1> they're hard to get into the kitchen
[07:19:16] <MattyMatt> when I've got a boatshed (huge gantry machine with a roof) I'll rehearse whole hulls and then do them in one go
[07:19:18] <pfred1> butto me fiberglassing is like welding for everything other than metal sort of
[07:20:06] <pfred1> I mean I've seen some people put toether some real rigs with this CNC stuff and it just suprised me I didn't see it used more often is all
[07:21:03] <pfred1> something else I've noticed is the peole putting together the roughest machines seem to have more finished work to show off
[07:21:17] <pfred1> than people making the nicest machines seem to show
[07:21:38] <MattyMatt> yeah reprap is the extreme :)
[07:21:49] <pfred1> and the crappiest machines seem to do rather well
[07:22:09] <pfred1> at least from what I can gather from a picture on the Internet
[07:22:22] <pfred1> you know the drawer slide specials
[07:22:35] <MattyMatt> I sure do. mine is one
[07:22:50] <pfred1> yeah there seems to be nothing wrong with it
[07:23:04] <pfred1> these people running around with their ballscrews and THK slides
[07:23:12] <MattyMatt> I'm using 2 pairs under the table
[07:23:38] <pfred1> it seems like it is the larger formula that matters more not all the gory little details
[07:24:32] <pfred1> I've been researching this a lot and seen a fair sampling I feel now
[07:24:50] <pfred1> some people are just off wit hthe machines they build
[07:24:54] <MattyMatt> I made the tool clamp out of ply yesterday. I swore I wouldn't when I first saw that done, but it was easy to do and it'll work
[07:25:08] <pfred1> like they're gonna clamp their heads to them and do home brain surgery or something
[07:26:01] <MattyMatt> that is one ultimate goal of robotics
[07:26:03] <pfred1> people with their 1200 oz/in stepper blah blah blah
[07:26:23] <pfred1> well it gets annoying
[07:26:38] <pfred1> like they're all in a pissing contest or something
[07:26:48] <pfred1> I'm going the other way
[07:27:05] <pfred1> I want to put as little as possible into it and try to get something out of it
[07:27:36] <MattyMatt> I started with that plan
[07:27:55] <MattyMatt> but now I think, hmm acme would be better
[07:28:19] <pfred1> I got a couple of jacks here with acme screws in them
[07:28:27] <pfred1> I'm going to gut for the leads
[07:28:45] <MattyMatt> yeah these chinese Workmates cost 10pound and have 2
[07:29:18] <MattyMatt> only 6" travel tho, so that's one more limit on my machine. I want 8" Z
[07:29:35] <pfred1> though i may just send away for a few rods too it's not too expensive
[07:29:50] <pfred1> the taps are though!
[07:29:53] <pfred1> wholly
[07:29:59] <MattyMatt> yeah the equations change once you've invested much time
[07:30:11] <pfred1> I may have to make my own if I go with an HDPE nut or something
[07:30:31] <pfred1> ust cut a piece of rod off and grind the cutter on it
[07:30:43] <pfred1> it'd thread plastic
[07:30:43] <MattyMatt> bore the nut on a lathe
[07:30:51] <pfred1> what lathe?
[07:31:14] <pfred1> I only have woodworking lathes
[07:31:36] <MattyMatt> fair point :) ok finish your allthread machine and cnc the nut
[07:32:17] <pfred1> so you use a dremel for a spindle?
[07:32:19] <MattyMatt> or add 2 axis cnc to woodwork lathe
[07:32:25] <pfred1> how's that working out for you?
[07:32:48] <MattyMatt> planning to use dremel, unless I wear it out first building the machine
[07:32:58] <pfred1> easie to just grind a cutter on a piece of rod
[07:33:17] <pfred1> I've blown up a few Dremels in my day
[07:33:24] <pfred1> quite a few in fact
[07:33:47] <MattyMatt> I thought about pressure injection moulding around the screw, but maintaining the pressure would need existing nuts
[07:33:48] <pfred1> so yes go easy on them
[07:34:11] <pfred1> you can lamp black it and just pour over it
[07:34:42] <pfred1> should braek free when whatever sets
[07:34:53] <MattyMatt> i think nylon moulds better under pressure
[07:35:11] <pfred1> ah
[07:35:21] <pfred1> I'm not using nylon
[07:35:29] <pfred1> hdpe here
[07:35:50] <pfred1> nylon is pretty pricy stuff
[07:36:06] <MattyMatt> if you buy it new :)
[07:36:46] <pfred1> I don't have access to a supply of used
[07:36:48] <MattyMatt> one PC psu connector would make a nut
[07:37:16] <pfred1> can you just melt it down?
[07:37:36] <pfred1> I figured you needed something to relax the polymers in it or something
[07:38:18] <MattyMatt> dunno. I'll experiment with solvents, heat & pressure when I have time & space
[07:38:22] <pfred1> one thing i have done is cast aluminum
[07:38:52] <pfred1> ain't nothing to doing that I'd say making a good burger on the grill is harder to do
[07:39:21] <pfred1> * pfred1 made Beercanium !
[07:39:54] <MattyMatt> even for alu, casting under pressure in a die gives better finish
[07:40:33] <pfred1> yeah my surface is rough like chicken skin
[07:41:22] <pfred1> but I do have a milling machine
[07:41:59] <MattyMatt> Lionel scraped his lathe bed with the side of a plane blade
[07:42:26] <pfred1> well I'd be right there with him I'm afraid
[07:42:34] <pfred1> my machine can only mill about 12"
[07:42:53] <pfred1> so unless it was a mighty small lathe
[07:43:16] <MattyMatt> or you milled it in parts. careful repositioning :)
[07:43:34] <pfred1> yeah that don't really work
[07:43:47] <pfred1> milled face is all one go
[07:44:42] <pfred1> you should see the job i did on the top of part of an anvil
[07:44:46] <MattyMatt> I've thought about trucks with 4 wheels and one grinder. up and down a long bed
[07:44:48] <pfred1> man like a mirror it is
[07:45:32] <pfred1> I seen car head facers and they mive the head the cutter remains stationary
[07:45:39] <pfred1> move the head
[07:46:14] <pfred1> big head like 10" in diameter
[07:46:24] <MattyMatt> yeah that's normal I think, for surface grinders. needs big metal
[07:46:29] <pfred1> well the cutter head
[07:46:39] <pfred1> nah this no grinder
[07:46:43] <pfred1> face miller
[07:46:51] <MattyMatt> ah right.
[07:47:06] <MattyMatt> same config machine, afaics tho
[07:47:24] <pfred1> at a shop I worked at we had huge surface grinders
[07:47:38] <pfred1> like 12 foot long beds
[07:48:28] <MattyMatt> it's ironic that machines can build something just smaller than themselves
[07:48:41] <MattyMatt> which is fine if you want nanotech
[07:49:10] <pfred1> well someone has to build the bigger machines
[07:49:23] <pfred1> they told me about the guys who'd come in toe hand scrape
[07:49:50] <pfred1> do the diamond patterns
[07:50:00] <pfred1> with hammers and chisels
[07:50:42] <pfred1> one of my personal quotes
[07:50:55] <pfred1> I can make you anything with a hammer and a chisel but it may take a while
[07:51:29] <MattyMatt> a friend has 2x 11ft pieces of 8x4 steel channel. I want one for a serious size wood lathe
[07:51:45] <MattyMatt> 1/2" thick steel
[07:52:41] <pfred1> I have my big steel collection
[07:52:58] <pfred1> you sure it's a half an inch thick?
[07:53:08] <pfred1> heavy wall structural usually only 3/8s
[07:53:34] <pfred1> that and becareful the legsaren't really 90 degrees
[07:53:45] <pfred1> man this keyboard I got to junk it
[07:53:48] <MattyMatt> I'm thinking if they were laid out as 4 parallel rails, then make a truck with 6 wheels and a grinder on the 4th rail
[07:54:13] <MattyMatt> dunno could be 3/8. more likely 10 or 12mm, this is england
[07:54:21] <pfred1> better off just sliding another bar over it
[07:54:38] <pfred1> stell on steel ain't bad
[07:54:49] <pfred1> grease it up if you need to
[07:55:32] <MattyMatt> this needs to wait until his garage is built. I'm not bringing these home
[07:55:38] <pfred1> I have a tree I'm working into a bench top and I'm going to use a router in a similar fashion to rough it flat
[07:56:14] <pfred1> renting a truck isn't expensive guys with flatbeds haul in their off times too for cheap
[07:56:31] <MattyMatt> I'm finding the dremel very nice for strange cuts I couldn't do with normal tools
[07:56:57] <MattyMatt> I got no land
[07:57:09] <pfred1> ah
[07:57:21] <pfred1> right now my land is a little limited too
[07:57:25] <MattyMatt> all my poperty is intellectual :p so I'm poor
[07:57:41] <pfred1> well I got flooded
[07:58:03] <pfred1> this is my driveway
[07:58:06] <pfred1> http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs042.snc3/12933_100621593297690_100000495491208_16021_3185953_n.jpg
[07:58:27] <pfred1> it usually doesn't look like that
[07:58:35] <MattyMatt> the trees will drink that
[07:58:52] <pfred1> its about a half a foot deep
[07:59:36] <pfred1> my backyard
[07:59:42] <pfred1> http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs042.snc3/12933_100608366632346_100000495491208_15687_6208715_n.jpg
[07:59:58] <pfred1> I own about 200 foot past the treeline there
[08:00:42] <pfred1> whole property is 200x900
[08:00:49] <pfred1> 3 acres
[08:05:43] <MattyMatt> in UK, you are allowed to turn 1/2 your garden into shed, without planning permission :)
[08:06:17] <MattyMatt> I wonder if that limit apples to 3 acre plots
[08:07:10] <MattyMatt> in Holland, you need planning permission to chop down any tree over 5 years old. that would screw you
[08:07:51] <pfred1> yeah i chop down whatever is in my way
[08:08:49] <MattyMatt> the way I se it is, tree cover = no planning permission needed >:)
[08:13:37] <MattyMatt> I think the only way I'll get land now is to get a worn-out farm
[08:13:47] <MattyMatt> in Africa
[08:13:59] <pfred1> we got plenty of land
[08:14:34] <MattyMatt> there's plenty here really, but the planning laws are stupid
[08:16:14] <MattyMatt> 1million gbp per acre for bulding land, but for agricultural it's cheap and they get subsidies
[08:16:46] <pfred1> wow a million?
[08:17:00] <MattyMatt> that's average town price
[08:17:06] <MattyMatt> in London, sky high
[08:17:27] <pfred1> oh well there you go
[08:17:32] <pfred1> I'm out in the woods
[08:18:21] <MattyMatt> but out in the woods here, you won't get planning permission for a new house, although you can "repair" an old farmhouse
[08:18:44] <pfred1> we'll let you slap up whatever wherever just about
[08:18:51] <MattyMatt> but land with that opportunity is expensive
[08:19:42] <MattyMatt> ah wilderness. shame we've run out of new continents on this planet :)
[08:20:06] <pfred1> pfft
[08:20:12] <pfred1> you city folk all alike
[08:20:28] <pfred1> get out of the city and most of the world is still empty
[08:20:49] <pfred1> cities are few and far inbetween really
[08:21:03] <pfred1> lots of nothng in between them
[08:21:09] <MattyMatt> not in UK it ain't. it was all feudal and some ppl think it still is
[08:21:13] <MrSunshine> MrSunshine is now known as sys2
[08:21:30] <pfred1> you guys still got royalty
[08:21:37] <pfred1> lords and dukes and whatnot
[08:21:47] <MattyMatt> it looks like wilderness, but it's actually carefully preserved hunting ground
[08:22:02] <pfred1> don't worry america made its own royalty too
[08:22:06] <MattyMatt> yeah they got little power now, but they own all the land
[08:22:15] <pfred1> mostly hip hop artists
[08:22:24] <pfred1> or sports stars
[08:22:36] <MattyMatt> 2nd generation presidents
[09:50:32] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[10:53:10] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-CS-3-0-E9-Drive-Shaft-Transmission-Can-Deliver_W0QQitemZ170406518207 upgrade your go-kart
[10:57:44] <MattyMatt> what's happened to the diff? has he burned off excess metal with a torch?
[10:59:40] <MattyMatt> I think that axle's seen its best days
[11:01:26] <MattyMatt> sorry, ebay said "you may also like " :)
[11:31:17] <anonimasu> hm
[11:36:47] <MattyMatt> driver board arrived \o/
[11:39:15] <MattyMatt> ah the sweet smell of chinese technology
[11:40:33] <MattyMatt> right., I suppose I'd better build the PC
[12:12:43] <anonimasu> hm
[12:12:55] <anonimasu> I found the toolchanger for the lathe :)
[12:13:34] <archivist_emc> I wand the toolchanger for mine
[12:13:39] <archivist_emc> want
[12:14:09] <archivist_emc> but they sell for silly money here
[12:14:11] <anonimasu> a photocell was misaligned and a bearing was broken
[12:15:04] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[12:15:09] <anonimasu> I were preparing to build one
[12:19:44] <MattyMatt> HTTP 错误 404
[12:20:14] <MattyMatt> no engrish
[12:52:25] <sys2> gaaah i need to manufacture a couple of motor mounts ... but need my mill to make them and i need one more axial bearing to put it together again ... comming on monday
[13:08:44] <MattyMatt> will the mill need the motor?
[13:20:46] <sys2> that im making the mounts for yes :P .. chicken and the egg :)
[13:21:12] <sys2> so ive done some temporary mounts atm that i just need to stabalize some and i will have high enough precision to make the real mounts :P
[13:41:08] <MattyMatt> reprap has appeal
[13:41:48] <MattyMatt> although that doesn't fix itself, tbh
[13:43:19] <MattyMatt> it's just easier to have 2 repraps than 2 mills :)
[13:47:48] <roh> hihi
[13:47:56] <roh> a mill and a reprap doesnt cut it?
[13:48:11] <MattyMatt> yeah as long as you're not a purist
[13:48:17] <roh> naah
[13:48:24] <MattyMatt> and don't mind machined parts on your reprap
[13:48:53] <roh> i think that whole self-replicating shit is a nice idea, but a showstopper for the whole project atm.
[13:49:17] <roh> nice idea, but no sense and productivity gain by that.
[13:49:28] <MattyMatt> normal engineering is self bootstrapping. they are just rediscovering that
[13:50:23] <roh> its ok, but not efficient. from what i could gather only a vanishing glimpse of repraps are printed ones. most are built from lasercut, milled or somewhat improvised mechanics
[13:51:34] <MattyMatt> people are starting to sell kits of printed parts
[13:52:05] <MattyMatt> and then other people sell extruder parts
[13:56:30] <MattyMatt> the developers seem to use self-printed parts, so they get high turnaround
[13:56:59] <MattyMatt> that's what 3d printing is useful for, prototyping
[13:59:34] <MattyMatt> e.g. I wouldn't want to run a mill with motor mounts I printed :)
[13:59:53] <MattyMatt> so no a rerap and a mill doesn't cut it
[14:00:32] <MattyMatt> not any kind of mill that uses proper axias bearings
[14:01:07] <MattyMatt> I'd run my dremelator with them tho
[14:03:16] <MattyMatt> gah. 50mm pillow block in plywood to hold my dremel. the easiest size of U bolt to buy
[14:06:05] <MattyMatt> it'll do until I fashion a steel ring for the 20mm nozzle end
[14:07:11] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt steals washer from truck wheel nut
[14:10:42] <MattyMatt> well my k6-2 is dead. next candidate mobo is a celeron 500
[14:11:12] <MattyMatt> that's my win98 machine tho. gotta back that up thoroughly first
[14:12:50] <L84Supper> http://www.candyfab.org/ didn't make use of EMC
[14:13:56] <MattyMatt> should they have? the limit on that is the hot air gun
[14:14:38] <MattyMatt> that is actually the machine that first inspired me to build one :)
[14:14:45] <tom3p> i think as the process gets slower, the benefit of realtime is smaller ( a 1ms stutter in motion to molten sugar blob doesnt matter much )
[14:14:51] <L84Supper> maybe they didn't want to have a PC involved?
[14:15:29] <MattyMatt> arduino fan
[14:36:15] <MattyMatt> you could probably sinter alu powder in a vacuum
[14:38:18] <MattyMatt> and then when it absorbs oxygen it'll go sapphire hard
[14:39:32] <MattyMatt> something to try on the moon
[14:45:58] <The_Ball> sorry, this is totaly off topic, but does anybody know what sort of pumping principle this pump uses? Doesn't look like a centrifugal pump. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200404380594&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
[14:48:31] <skunkworks> centrafidual(sp)
[14:49:46] <skunkworks> centrifugal
[14:55:32] <The_Ball> hmm, ok, it has a very long pump "housing"
[14:55:50] <skunkworks> multi stage...
[14:56:18] <The_Ball> ah, thanks
[14:56:22] <skunkworks> the impellers are stacked where the output of one feeds the input of the other.
[15:46:16] <tarzan_> L84Supper, which is being used on www.candyfab.org ?
[16:44:38] <Jymmm> If anyone cares... http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/13/google.phone.service/index.html
[17:53:30] <awallin> has anyone built a linear motor? it would need a linear encoder, I wonder if there's a DIY way of making one...
[17:54:11] <cradek> lots of older printers/plotters have linear encoders
[17:54:25] <cradek> they are just the usual module like you get from us digital, and a strip
[17:54:55] <L84Supper> tarzan_: http://wiki.candyfab.org/CandyFab_Software they wrote it using http://processing.org/ I'm still looking for where they post the actual code
[17:56:26] <awallin> I'm guessing hedenhain and renishaw will be a bit out of my price range...
[17:56:35] <L84Supper> awallin : you can fine cheap linear encoder strips and sensors on ebay for cheap
[17:56:47] <L84Supper> heh sp fine/find
[17:57:23] <awallin> ok, I need to do a bit of research on the linear motor bit. I wonder how doable it is
[17:57:47] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/ENCAD-NovaJet-1000i-Kodak-1200i-ENCODER-STRIP-MYLAR_W0QQitemZ290366640000QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPrinter_Accessories?hash=item439b334f80
[17:58:33] <awallin> hm, that is 1200 lines per inch?
[17:58:40] <awallin> and two in quadrature?
[17:59:48] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/ENCAD-ENCODER-SENSOR-NOVAJET-PRINTER-PARTS_W0QQitemZ290366670957QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439b33c86d the sensor
[18:00:16] <cradek> beware you need exactly the right sensor so the spacing gives quadrature
[18:00:26] <awallin> yes.
[18:00:27] <cradek> it's silly for this seller to separate them
[18:01:06] <L84Supper> heh, you should see what the suppliers from China do :)
[18:01:07] <awallin> 1200 lpi is 0.02mm resolution...
[18:01:09] <Jymmm> Item location:Shanghai, China
[18:01:22] <awallin> * awallin -> pizza is ready...
[18:01:31] <L84Supper> they have all the printer parts but no specs
[18:01:42] <Jymmm> awallin: you have 30 minutes to deliver to ALL of us
[18:02:24] <cradek> .0052 mm
[18:03:10] <L84Supper> lots more http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=encoder+strip&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=encoder+strip+encad&_osacat=0
[18:03:28] <awallin> cradek: ah! in 4x mode that sound much better
[18:06:34] <geo01005_> I don't think my last message made it out... Has anybody had any experience with these supper cheapo stepper drives on ebay?
[18:06:36] <geo01005_> http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Axis-CNC-Stepper-Motor-TA8435H-Driver-Board-Mach-2-3_W0QQitemZ250526105456QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5484ff70
[18:08:14] <cradek> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/toshiba/4047.pdf
[18:08:28] <cradek> the TA8435 is a biploar chopper drive, so it might be a perfectly fine board
[18:09:23] <geo01005_> it is cheaper than I could hope to make it.
[18:10:27] <cradek> 1.5A 24V is on the small side but for a very small machine it's probably fine
[18:11:32] <L84Supper> the board is pretty simple to check, I'd check on the four lytics used and double check the temp on the motor drivers to see if the heatsink is large enough
[18:12:03] <geo01005_> I'm looking at some little motors to go with it:
[18:12:05] <geo01005_> http://cgi.ebay.com/Lin-Nema-17-bipolar-stepper-motors-Package-of-4-motors_W0QQitemZ250406974065QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4d6b3271
[18:13:05] <geo01005_> motors are good upto 2 amps, but I wouldn't mind running then at 1-1.5 amps.
[18:13:27] <cradek> you should get and check the spec sheet for those motors - if they are really rated 24V you'll get virtually no performance out of them
[18:13:43] <cradek> you want very low volt rated motors
[18:13:58] <L84Supper> http://www.toshiba.com/taec/components2/Datasheet_Sync//382/3537.pdf
[18:15:46] <geo01005_> the resistance is 1.2 ohms per coil, so I don't think they are actually rated at 24v.
[18:16:03] <geo01005_> 2.6 mH/phase.
[18:16:14] <sys2> sounds a bit high =)
[18:16:22] <sys2> low .. for 24V 2A
[18:16:42] <cradek> yes they are actually 2.4
[18:16:51] <cradek> driving at 24 will be decent then
[18:17:07] <sys2> sucks that my stepper driver cant take 4 amps
[18:17:11] <sys2> then i could run mine ALOT faster
[18:17:21] <sys2> as i have to have serial connection now to get the amps down .. :/
[18:17:29] <sys2> 4V 2A insted of 2V 4A =)
[18:17:39] <MattyMatt> geo01005_ I got the 3.5A version from the same people. it arrived today after ~10 days
[18:17:57] <geo01005_> MattyMatt: how much did that one cost?
[18:18:05] <MattyMatt> 7 quid more
[18:18:06] <geo01005_> Have you tried it out yet?
[18:18:32] <MattyMatt> not managed to read the manual.doc yet
[18:19:09] <MattyMatt> no pics in wordpad, so I couldn't be sure I was looking at the right one
[18:19:54] <geo01005_> hmm, I don't see a 3.5A version for sale right now.
[18:21:17] <L84Supper> here's a3.5A version http://cgi.ebay.com/New-4-Axis-CNC-Stepper-Motor-TB6560-Driver-Board_W0QQitemZ130343937110QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e591aa456
[18:24:25] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-4-Axis-CNC-Stepper-Motor-TB6560-Driver-Board_W0QQitemZ130343937110
[18:24:47] <MattyMatt> different vendor, actually, but same board by the look
[18:25:11] <MattyMatt> hy68.com on the pcb, but their english site is 404
[18:25:45] <MattyMatt> hyu68.com sorry
[18:28:05] <sys2> free shipping to sweden .. not to bad =)
[18:34:34] <geo01005_> did it come with the fan?
[18:34:47] <MattyMatt> I still haven't worked out whether I've got N or M version. both have 25 + 15 ports, wired totally differently
[18:34:57] <MattyMatt> yeah fan attached
[18:35:09] <MattyMatt> nicely made board
[18:35:35] <MattyMatt> powers itself from the motor psu
[18:36:40] <MattyMatt> detachable connector blocks are nice
[18:37:02] <MattyMatt> I'll look for spares for cable extenders
[18:38:37] <MattyMatt> feature list in N version says manual interface, but M version has connector too
[18:39:45] <MattyMatt> I'm going to install my arcade joysticks on it :)
[18:40:05] <MattyMatt> I've used the plywood I was saving for the cab, and given away the TV
[18:41:00] <MattyMatt> and I tried to use the mobo for emc, but it's a longbeeper
[18:41:34] <eric_unterhausen> I decided to use my old desktop for emc, but it doesn't fit in the case
[18:42:56] <MattyMatt> I have a big console design. way overkill for 18" work area
[18:43:34] <MattyMatt> I have the pedestal from an unfinished desk. plenty of room for psu etc
[18:44:06] <eric_unterhausen> it wasn't volume in my case, the heat sink interferes with the mobo tray
[18:46:23] <MattyMatt> geo01005_: I got mach3 with chineses manual, and artcam8 & artcam.pro.8 both chinese. dunno whether they are legal
[18:46:44] <eric_unterhausen> I'm gonna say no
[18:46:51] <MattyMatt> but it's not a factory cd, so yours will probably be different
[18:47:50] <L84Supper> candyfab dev comment on EMC "the exceedingly long instruction manual kind of put me off" " Linux CNC has too many features for me!"
[18:48:02] <L84Supper> http://www.candyfab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=570
[18:49:05] <MattyMatt> I like that it now makes food-standard candy. they were worried about oil in the hot-air blower at first
[18:50:26] <MattyMatt> the food grade blower sounds cheaper than an smt rework tool too
[18:50:36] <L84Supper> maybe one of these days I'll build a 3d printer for chocolate
[18:51:16] <MattyMatt> you could do that either way. powder or extruder
[18:51:30] <dmess> hi all
[18:52:15] <MattyMatt> or, you could cast solid blocks of chocolate and mill it :)
[18:52:47] <MattyMatt> and then use the swarf for the powder printer
[18:57:50] <L84Supper> milling is simple, the deposition approach gets into issues with transition temp for the chocolate
[18:59:06] <dmess> what are we making??? i'm in late
[18:59:11] <MattyMatt> and the non-newtonian properties of good chocolate. you need to stir as you squirt
[18:59:43] <MattyMatt> fused powder would work tho
[19:00:44] <MattyMatt> building candyfabs, with the thin excuse of getting emc running on them :)
[19:01:33] <MattyMatt> excuse would be the only thin thing
[19:01:39] <L84Supper> Staubli sealed stainless robot arm, FDA approved, + mastercam , done for only ~$40K
[19:02:16] <MattyMatt> neat, I'll have 2 for robochoclatier
[19:04:30] <MattyMatt> a big dept store could probably make that pay if it turns out perfect chocs in front of your eyes
[19:06:53] <L84Supper> I never looked for FDA approved linear positioners or rorary tables
[19:07:05] <L84Supper> rotary even
[19:08:18] <Jymmm> You need NSA certification.
[19:08:23] <MattyMatt> lacework chocolate, holding a few hazelnuts together.
[19:08:25] <Jymmm> nnot FDA
[19:08:38] <L84Supper> yeah
[19:09:29] <L84Supper> NFS in the US
[19:10:12] <Jymmm> err yeah, NFS.... http://www.nsf.org/
[19:10:55] <L84Supper> I bet NSA approval is even harder to get :)
[19:10:55] <MattyMatt> dunno if there's approval here. only disapproval when they inspect
[19:10:57] <Jymmm> you HAVE to have that certification to be used n food service and pass health codes.
[19:11:43] <L84Supper> stainless and polypropylene
[19:12:30] <MattyMatt> I've seen frosting inkjets that use standard epson printers. they probably wouldn't pass for factory use but a baker could get away with it here
[19:13:05] <L84Supper> yeah, the starch based films/paper and food coloring inks
[19:13:26] <Jymmm> Yeah, I have nfc how they get away with that commercially.
[19:13:27] <MattyMatt> solid sheets of thin-rolled semi-hard frosting/icing
[19:13:40] <Jymmm> They may not even be doing it legally
[19:14:09] <MattyMatt> there's probably an EU reg to ignore
[19:14:36] <Jymmm> They have those here in the US too Baskin robbins for cake toppings. still no idea.
[19:14:53] <geo01005> I'm going to be building a delta robot with those motors and drives I
[19:14:57] <geo01005> I'm looking at.
[19:15:13] <geo01005> Delta robots are used all the time in food industries.
[19:15:42] <L84Supper> Epson has a legal disclaimer on it's use for food since the printer is definitely not food safe
[19:16:31] <Jymmm> http://www.cake-decorating-supply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=11
[19:16:37] <MattyMatt> most english food is illegal in EU :)
[19:17:02] <MattyMatt> apparently we're not allowed to call it chocolate unless it has some cocoa in it
[19:18:03] <MattyMatt> and sausages have to have meat in them, even during wartime
[19:18:09] <Jymmm> thats a good thing
[19:18:14] <L84Supper> all it takes is one lawsuit in the US from somebody that licked the cartridge to unclog the nozzles
[19:20:02] <MattyMatt> shouldn't kill anyone, if it's the food dye carts
[19:20:27] <Jymmm> But the lube used in the printer MSUT be food grade.
[19:21:05] <MattyMatt> problems will happen when little miss baker runs out to Staples and everyone at little johnny's birthday party gets sick
[19:23:05] <MattyMatt> ah kids are supposed to get sick at cake parties. nobody will notice >:)
[19:24:38] <Jymmm> http://www.nsf.org/business/food_equipment/index.asp?program=FoodEqu
[19:24:45] <L84Supper> http://www.staubli.com/en/robotics/products/6-axis-scara-industrial-robot/specialised-robot/stericlean-robot/
[19:26:37] <Jymmm> NSF/ANSI Standard 169: Special Purpose Food Equipment and Devices
[19:26:37] <Jymmm> Specialty equipment items or devices which have special, complex, or multiple functions.
[19:28:43] <MattyMatt> aha. one version of the 3.5A board has manual jog buttons on the pcb. this one does not
[19:29:45] <MattyMatt> and what looks like controller chip, which may interfere with emc. this one is straight parport
[19:33:04] <MattyMatt> the other one has h/s on back of pcb too
[19:36:14] <MattyMatt> spindle relay rated for 5A at 240V. bonus
[19:37:13] <geo01005> Solid State? or Mechanical
[19:37:57] <MattyMatt> guessing mech
[19:38:25] <MattyMatt> it has a transistor on the coil
[19:40:39] <L84Supper> only $100 for the NSF document http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/results
[19:41:09] <MattyMatt> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.cnicic.com/CP/Show_30966.shtml&ei=mQf_Sr2nK4Gq4QblpYWGDA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBAQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhui%2Bke%2Bhkv6-dc12V-sg%26hl%3Den%26client%3Diceweasel-a%26rls%3Dorg.debian:en-GB:unofficial
[19:41:58] <MattyMatt> yeah mechanical
[19:42:09] <MattyMatt> hui ke hkv6-dc12V-sg
[19:44:21] <L84Supper> Food Industry Grippers http://www.schunk.com/schunk/schunk_websites/products/products_level_3/product_level3.html?country=USA&lngCode=EN&lngCode2=EN&product_level_1=244&product_level_2=250&product_level_3=4103
[19:45:00] <eric_unterhausen> if it comes from schunk, you can't afford it
[19:45:19] <L84Supper> but they do work
[19:45:43] <eric_unterhausen> they make good stuff, no doubt
[19:46:37] <eric_unterhausen> I'll bet the LMG costs most of $100k
[19:46:49] <L84Supper> ok, the Adept Quattro is USDA approved
[19:47:48] <L84Supper> http://www.adept.com/
[19:48:06] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.schunk.com/schunk/schunk_websites/products/products_level_3/product_level3.html?product_level_3=7261&product_level_2=250&product_level_1=244&country=USA&lngCode=EN&lngCode2=EN
[19:48:16] <eric_unterhausen> we have the SGH, it was $70k or so
[19:48:17] <L84Supper> hmmm... maybe a meat carving bot?
[19:49:38] <L84Supper> "forms a lifelike 3d sculpture of your friends and family out of pate in only 60 seconds!"
[19:51:37] <L84Supper> eric : how well does it work so far?
[19:52:19] <MattyMatt> when skynet sends the command, it turns your friends and family into pate
[19:53:16] <MattyMatt> meat is meat, to a robot
[19:54:01] <oPless> * oPless perks up
[19:54:15] <MattyMatt> except for english robots who understand there's no actual meat in a meat and potato pie
[19:55:54] <oPless> * oPless wanders off as there's no talk of actual HKs
[19:57:39] <MattyMatt> HKs?
[19:58:00] <MattyMatt> Haute Kwisiniers?
[19:58:26] <MattyMatt> Humanless Kitchens
[19:59:06] <oPless> you mentioned skynet :)
[20:00:13] <MattyMatt> Horrific Killings?
[20:00:36] <L84Supper> McDonalds worked on humanless kitchens for years, minimum wage workers outperformed them, maybe they used minimum wage engineers as well
[20:01:18] <MattyMatt> you'd need a self cleaning vending machine
[20:02:29] <MattyMatt> or else you'd need Rimmer to clean the chicken soup nozzles by hand
[20:02:33] <Jymmm> Yeah, just make a vending machine that a cow/pig/chicken just walks into and out comes steak, bacon & eggs, pork chops, hot dogs, etc.
[20:02:53] <MattyMatt> frozen deliveries, just like the restaurants
[20:03:34] <MattyMatt> farms have a machine that turns animals into frozen baggies
[20:04:12] <MattyMatt> robowolf, so you don't have to round them up from the field
[20:04:26] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[20:08:00] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[23:03:01] <sys2> any advice on cheap high repeatability home switches for my mill ? :)
[23:03:58] <pfred1> I wonder if keypads would work?
[23:04:05] <archivist_emc> some are using cheap miniature microswitches and getting good results
[23:04:07] <pfred1> you know those rubber things
[23:04:25] <pfred1> archivist_emc cherry switches?
[23:05:03] <celeron55_> things like this, i suppose http://www.ligfiets.net/zelfbouwer/images/NniWhVMA.jpg
[23:05:08] <frallzor> dont cheap out if you want better than good results
[23:05:26] <pfred1> cherry clone
[23:06:06] <pfred1> http://www.drillspot.com/pimages/347/34725_300.jpg
[23:07:02] <pfred1> though I even have some old red cherry switches
[23:07:46] <pfred1> now i guess it is like saying Kleenex they all called cherry switches but it is a brand
[23:08:29] <archivist_emc> I have not tested mine for repeatability yet
[23:09:00] <pfred1> I always thought cherrys were industry standard
[23:09:16] <pfred1> not the "cheap" way out
[23:09:16] <archivist_emc> many makers
[23:09:24] <celeron55_> i guess repeatibility isn't so important for most hobby cnc uses
[23:09:47] <pfred1> I was impressed that emc has debounce code written into it
[23:09:50] <tlab> archivist_emc, did you link me a pdf at one time about pcb smt design?
[23:09:59] <pfred1> I've had to make deboince circuits
[23:10:09] <pfred1> debounce even
[23:11:24] <sys2> what is it that makes bad repeatability with say micro switches?
[23:11:31] <sys2> shouldnt they switch at exactly the same time every time ?
[23:11:47] <archivist_emc> tlab, I dont think so, or cant rember
[23:11:53] <archivist_emc> remember
[23:12:27] <pfred1> most of mine are unimax brand
[23:12:38] <pfred1> I'm going to run with them
[23:13:30] <sys2> would optointerruptors have better repeatability then micro switches but at the cost of being chip sensetive? :)
[23:13:59] <archivist_emc> you can get error from ambient light in an opto
[23:14:06] <pfred1> come to think about it I have a ton of those too
[23:14:19] <pfred1> sys2 I never thought about using those
[23:14:27] <celeron55_> seal it from light and chips and it probably is very good
[23:14:30] <pfred1> how about hall effect sensors?
[23:14:54] <sys2> archivist, i was thinking to put it on then incase it inside a plastic shell
[23:15:02] <pfred1> celeron55_ sort of tough to seal it if you need to interrupt it
[23:15:06] <frallzor> go luxury and get some nice "scales" =)
[23:15:21] <pfred1> frallzor are you buying?
[23:15:31] <archivist_emc> get me some too
[23:15:35] <pfred1> I believe they asked for cheap
[23:15:47] <frallzor> he asked for good afaik :P
[23:16:03] <pfred1> <sys2> any advice on cheap high repeatability home switches for my mill ? :)
[23:16:19] <pfred1> good wasn't in there
[23:16:38] <frallzor> well high repeatability = good in my book =(
[23:16:44] <pfred1> hall effect is tough to run in automotive apps
[23:17:08] <pfred1> must be pretty good with dirt and whatnot
[23:17:45] <pfred1> sys2 but now you do have me thinking about optos
[23:18:20] <sys2> they have to be incased good tho for chips, dust and like archivist_emc said ambient light
[23:19:01] <pfred1> yeah hall effect might be easier than all of that
[23:19:52] <sys2> but will hall effect have any good repeatability .. and are they so they give 0 and 1 .. not 0 ...... 0.1..... ....... 1 ?
[23:20:07] <pfred1> sys2 it is good enough to time car ignition
[23:20:25] <sys2> pfred1, well that can be 0.1 degree off and it wouldnt do much harm :P
[23:20:30] <celeron55_> that doesn't mean very much precision :P
[23:20:39] <pfred1> OK
[23:20:48] <sys2> as my car had 3 kogs off on the timing belt or whatever its called and it still ran quite good
[23:20:57] <sys2> and thats like 5 degrees or more off on the ignition
[23:21:01] <pfred1> * pfred1 remembers not to let these two under his hood ...
[23:21:21] <pfred1> teeth?
[23:21:31] <sys2> teeth .. toothed belt
[23:21:31] <sys2> :P
[23:22:15] <pfred1> yeah havingthose teeth off the belt didn't affect your timing more are in contact
[23:22:27] <pfred1> having the belt jump 3 teeth is different
[23:22:47] <pfred1> car timing is pretty picky
[23:22:52] <celeron55_> didn't he mean just that?
[23:23:01] <sys2> pfred1, it had jumped 3 teeth :)
[23:23:04] <sys2> thats what i mean
[23:23:08] <pfred1> oh
[23:23:10] <sys2> so it was 3 teeth off where it should be
[23:23:24] <pfred1> I thought you meant you sheared belt teeth
[23:23:30] <sys2> no
[23:23:39] <pfred1> your car might have been compensating
[23:23:43] <sys2> it did that after i tightened it ... but that time ALL of the teeth :P
[23:23:44] <pfred1> some can
[23:23:55] <sys2> pfred1, its a 87 non fuel injector :P
[23:24:10] <pfred1> doesn't matter can be in the ignition module
[23:24:23] <sys2> no computer etc etc
[23:24:27] <sys2> just plain mechanical parts
[23:24:35] <pfred1> points?
[23:24:57] <pfred1> even then you have the breaker plate
[23:26:37] <sys2> an opto interrupter, does that ground the cable when its interrupted?
[23:26:40] <pfred1> maybe it is sync that is most important with car ignition I never thought about it like this before but I sure seen plenty of cars screwed with worn distributors
[23:26:42] <sys2> the output
[23:27:16] <pfred1> I'd think it'd ground free
[23:27:28] <pfred1> being as one side would be an NPN transistor
[23:27:38] <pfred1> the detector side
[23:27:53] <pfred1> eally say conduct
[23:28:23] <pfred1> I'm prototyping my BOB right now using optos
[23:28:43] <pfred1> not too happy yet with the ma draw I'm getting
[23:29:03] <sys2> cause as far as i can tell my controller board wants it to be as so, as long as nothing is connected to the limit switch input its high == not at limit, when it hits the limits it should GND the output making it go LOW == at a limit
[23:29:18] <pfred1> you can always use an inverter
[23:29:29] <pfred1> logic can always be reversed
[23:29:40] <pfred1> don't let that concern you
[23:29:52] <pfred1> 7404 easy peasy
[23:29:55] <sys2> pfred1, you testing it out? :)
[23:30:10] <pfred1> what?
[23:30:12] <pfred1> my BOB
[23:30:16] <sys2> what is BOB ?
[23:30:23] <pfred1> Break Out Board
[23:30:31] <sys2> ok =)
[23:30:34] <pfred1> goes between parallel port and whatever
[23:30:44] <sys2> yeah thats built into my driver
[23:30:52] <pfred1> I'm using optoisolators on it
[23:30:52] <sys2> so i just ṕlug the parport right into the driver board =)
[23:31:01] <pfred1> they lot like interrupters
[23:31:05] <pfred1> cept without the slot
[23:31:50] <pfred1> sys2 well your board may have protection built in
[23:32:12] <sys2> pfred1, yes, optocouplers
[23:32:26] <pfred1> not a bad way to go
[23:32:39] <sys2> pfred1, if you get it working, please test it for repeatability also :)
[23:32:43] <sys2> if you can :)
[23:33:01] <pfred1> well opto sutff should work for a long time
[23:33:45] <sys2> pfred1, yes but what i mean is if it stops at 0.001 first time 0.004 2nd time 0.01 3rd time 0.000 4th time etc :)
[23:33:53] <sys2> or if it stops at 0.000 each time :P
[23:36:13] <sys2> http://www.vinland.com/Opto-Interrupter.html
[23:36:16] <sys2> maybe something :P
[23:44:38] <pfred1> sys2 I'm not interested in accuracies like that
[23:45:18] <Jymmm> Anyone interested in a couple of open frame linear PS? 5VDC@6A and 16VDC@12.5A
[23:45:52] <pfred1> Jymmm you ever see the last PS I built?
[23:51:22] <pfred1> hmm, I guess that means they don't want to ...
[23:53:53] <pfred1> sys2 how about you? Want to see a picture of the last power supply I built?
[23:54:56] <sys2> haha
[23:54:59] <sys2> why not :P
[23:55:10] <sys2> whatever floats your boat :P
[23:55:39] <pfred1> OK
[23:55:49] <pfred1> well if you do here is a picture
[23:55:52] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FQE/UXTT/G1BBHIWI/FQEUXTTG1BBHIWI.MEDIUM.jpg
[23:56:08] <sys2> omg, a flux capacitor in therE? :)
[23:56:16] <pfred1> it'll deliver 2-38V adjustable current adjustable voltage
[23:56:17] <sys2> or what is thaT? .. huge :P
[23:56:30] <sys2> is it a capacitor? :)
[23:56:32] <pfred1> the big silver can?
[23:56:37] <sys2> yes
[23:56:44] <pfred1> yes that is a capacitor
[23:56:51] <sys2> heh :)
[23:56:56] <pfred1> you need them to filter
[23:57:04] <pfred1> it is what you need
[23:57:14] <pfred1> it is only 38,000 uF
[23:57:28] <pfred1> which for this sort of a supply is what you need
[23:57:37] <pfred1> supply can deliver 300 watts
[23:58:01] <L84Supper> what was the ESR on that cap?
[23:58:06] <pfred1> cranked up it can sort of weld a little least it makes the wire stick
[23:58:25] <pfred1> L84Supper hell if i know I pulled it out of my cap drawer
[23:59:01] <pfred1> its a pretty nice bench power supply for messing with all of this stepper stuff
[23:59:10] <pfred1> has gobs of power
[23:59:22] <L84Supper> heh, probably high enough to not have issues with inrush current
[23:59:40] <pfred1> oh supply is fast diode bypassed
[23:59:50] <pfred1> so no worries huh?