#emc | Logs for 2009-11-12

[00:07:37] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:27:00] <Jymmm> * Jymmm puts out an APP for jmkasunich
[00:27:46] <skunkworks> APB?
[00:30:12] <Jymmm> That too!
[00:30:54] <Jymmm> I just want to know what jmkasunich's results were with that mini mobo
[00:32:01] <skunkworks> the atom board?
[00:32:10] <Jymmm> Yeah
[00:32:39] <Jymmm> oh crap, discontinued
[00:32:44] <eric_unterhausen> I thought JWPadnos was whining about the network
[00:33:36] <Jymmm> network?
[00:33:59] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, you've heard of it, the thing that allows you to connect to the interwebs
[00:34:16] <skunkworks> there is a network bug - I think it only shows itself with large data transfers.
[00:34:33] <Jymmm> with the chipset or drivers?
[00:34:47] <Jymmm> and are you talking jumbo packets?
[00:34:50] <eric_unterhausen> he didn't know because it was on a customer's box
[00:35:50] <eric_unterhausen> newegg still has them in stock
[00:35:57] <eric_unterhausen> 78 usd
[00:36:16] <Jymmm> skunkworks: large, as in sustained transfers, or like lots of open sockets?
[00:36:23] <Jymmm> (like bittorrent)
[00:37:03] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: Yeah, newegg changed item#'s
[00:37:20] <eric_unterhausen> it finally got cheapah
[00:37:22] <skunkworks> you would have to ask SWPadnos
[00:38:12] <Jymmm> Ok, who has tested the latency on it? I think SWPadnos has one but didn't test latency.
[00:38:30] <skunkworks> I have
[00:38:40] <skunkworks> it is normally slightly under 20us
[00:38:41] <Jymmm> skunkworks: what did you get?
[00:38:45] <skunkworks> not stellar
[00:38:59] <eric_unterhausen> skunky: have you used it with emc?
[00:39:19] <Jymmm> skunkworks: installed or via livecd?
[00:39:31] <skunkworks> the other eric built a smp kernal for it and I think has better performance
[00:39:38] <skunkworks> yes
[00:39:53] <Jymmm> *SMACK*
[00:40:07] <skunkworks> I don't think I have actually run any equipment with it.
[00:40:38] <eric_unterhausen> I wish I knew someone had, can't get myself to believe the latency until then
[00:40:54] <Jymmm> $5 more and get a S-Video output too... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121359
[00:41:43] <eric_unterhausen> Jymmm: I think that's the one people are using
[00:42:00] <eric_unterhausen> too bad it doesn't have a modern video output
[00:42:10] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: Yeah, there are two versions. One with and one without S-Video.
[00:42:21] <andypugh> SMP kernels + EMC are a lot of hassle in my experience, but potentially worth it.
[00:48:23] <mikegg> you guys talking about this little gem?
[00:48:23] <mikegg> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121359
[00:48:35] <mikegg> I just bought one.
[00:48:49] <Jymmm> yep
[00:48:56] <mikegg> will probably test it with SMP kernel in the near future
[00:49:56] <Jymmm> mikegg: Reading the review, it looks like there if a mfg failure in that some of the heatsinks may not be properly attached and letting out the magic smoke.
[00:50:06] <mikegg> ugh
[00:50:14] <Jymmm> specifcially on the video chipset
[00:50:55] <Jymmm> mikegg: jsut grab some heatsink grease
[00:52:03] <mikegg> yeah, the GPU has no fan
[00:52:16] <mikegg> just pulled the sink off
[00:52:27] <Jymmm> anything on it?
[00:52:45] <mikegg> it's got that real tacky thermal compound, not the stuff that comes out of a tube
[00:52:53] <mikegg> like arctic silver I think they call it
[00:53:14] <mikegg> i'll scrape it off and put the good stuff on
[00:53:41] <Jymmm> might want to pull off the cu heatsink too and take a lok
[00:53:44] <Jymmm> look
[00:54:07] <Valen> mikegg whats up?
[00:54:28] <mikegg> I got one of those intel Atom boars
[00:54:39] <Valen> nifty ;-> the dual core?
[00:54:52] <mikegg> I guess some folks have smoked the GPU
[00:54:54] <mikegg> yep
[00:55:07] <mikegg> it's a cute little board for sure
[00:55:24] <Jymmm> mikegg: what case are you putting it in?
[00:55:35] <mikegg> i think it will be custom
[00:55:52] <mikegg> going to use a 5i20/7i33/7i37
[00:56:04] <mikegg> put all of that and some servo amps in one box
[00:56:32] <mikegg> jst_home needs to give up
[00:58:59] <mikegg> time to go to the house.
[00:59:01] <mikegg> later guys
[01:09:16] <skunkworks> Jymmm
[01:09:45] <skunkworks> I used the s-video out of it for a while as a media pc.. now I use the vga port to the hdtv.
[01:09:55] <skunkworks> works ok
[01:10:11] <skunkworks> (xp)
[01:11:56] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Why "ok", because it's not hi-res?
[01:13:47] <Jymmm> I mostly wanted it if it has low latency
[01:14:20] <Jymmm> the s-video is for re-purposing it down the road.
[01:15:30] <Jymmm> skunkworks: If you disable APM etc in the BIOS, I wonder if you'll get better letanecy
[01:15:32] <Jymmm> latency
[01:17:33] <Jymmm> This loks beter for a media pc http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500036
[01:19:28] <Valen> One of those would be nice
[01:19:48] <Valen> No PCI slots though by the look of things
[01:19:55] <Valen> I need them for my TV tuners
[01:23:48] <Jymmm> for what?
[01:23:54] <Jymmm> it has bult in wifi
[01:24:13] <Jymmm> Valen: http://hdhomerun.com
[01:25:04] <Jymmm> fsck tuner CARDS - im done with them
[01:26:16] <Valen> why? mine seem to work flawlessly
[01:26:32] <Jymmm> No need
[01:26:41] <Jymmm> Just access tuner across the lan
[01:26:44] <Dave911> I've purchased three of those Intel 330 boards so far. no problems.
[01:27:02] <Dave911> The CPU does not have a fan, the northbridge does.
[01:27:54] <Dave911> They work well with EMC2. Low latency numbers.
[01:28:23] <Jymmm> Dave911: if you can post soem real numbers - liek a 24hour burn in would be nice
[01:29:47] <Dave911> As I recall the numbers were in the 2500 range. The numbers in the Wiki listing as I recall are pretty close.
[01:30:00] <Jymmm> 2500 what?
[01:30:02] <skunkworks> Jymmm: If I have some ddr2 memory at work - I could run a over night test.
[01:30:18] <Jymmm> also the BIOS version number too
[01:30:24] <Dave911> The latency numbers ...
[01:30:36] <Jymmm> Dave911: 2500ms ? 2500ns?
[01:30:52] <skunkworks> I have one in the box still
[01:31:02] <Jymmm> skunkworks: lol, really?
[01:31:06] <skunkworks> yes
[01:31:12] <Jymmm> door stop?
[01:31:13] <Dave911> I've got two of those boards right here now in fact.. well I would have a big problem if it was 2500 ms! ;-) ns.
[01:31:33] <Jymmm> 2500ns Is EXTREMELY low
[01:31:51] <Jymmm> 20000ns is max usable
[01:32:05] <Dave911> Actually I need to load EMC2 onto one of them tonight. I can let the latency test run overnight if you'd like to see the numbers tomorrow....
[01:32:27] <Dave911> I might be wrong but the numbers in the wiki were really low so I bought one,, then more....
[01:33:40] <L84Supper> Dave911 : are these the Atom mini-itx boards?
[01:33:58] <Jymmm> You're probably measuring lit jitter (or something), not latency.
[01:34:03] <Jymmm> s/lit/like/
[01:34:13] <Dave911> Yes, the latency for these boards is very low. And so was the price. Yep the same board mentioned before. Intel Mini-itx 330 CPU boards
[01:36:27] <Dave911> I'll power one up and load the CD and give you some numbers in a few minutes ...
[01:37:19] <skunkworks> I never saw it that low.. (usually hovered just under 20us.)
[01:37:39] <skunkworks> I think jmk had the same numbers.
[01:38:02] <skunkworks> make sure you run glxgears
[01:47:46] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, the network error was in the RTL8111 or RTL8169 driver, and is fixed as of kernel 2.6.30
[01:48:26] <SWPadnos> I have two units here which I just tested by trasnferring >2TB through the ethernet port, and they both worked great
[01:49:09] <SWPadnos> or at least, there are no dmesg entries about the netdev watchdog or other strange network entries, and the transfers were still going after a couple of days (I finally stopped them because I was happy that the bug is gone)
[01:53:33] <Valen> Dave911 is that the performance with SMP or uniprocessor kernel?
[02:00:26] <SWPadnos> the CD will be the uniprocessor kernel
[02:00:40] <SWPadnos> you have to do an install to get the esperimental SMP kernel
[02:00:48] <SWPadnos> or the experimental one
[02:09:13] <mikeggg> http://dealnews.com/Refurbished-Dell-Optiplex-GX620-Pentium-4-3.2-GHz-Desktop-PC-for-129-free-shipping/328885.html
[02:09:18] <mikeggg> is good deal no?
[02:16:41] <pfred1> I hate Dells
[02:16:52] <Valen> same pretty much lol
[02:17:05] <Valen> that quad core is pretty nice though lol
[02:17:12] <pfred1> proprietary form factors and low performance
[02:17:18] <eric_unterhausen> I've gotten over my hate of dells
[02:17:22] <pfred1> for what they are
[02:17:26] <eric_unterhausen> although some of them have given me a lot ofproblems
[02:17:43] <pfred1> none of them were ever what I expected them to be or should have been
[02:17:59] <eric_unterhausen> generally you have to pay a lot to get a good one
[02:18:06] <eric_unterhausen> the cheap dells are not very good
[02:18:20] <pfred1> how they can take perfectly good parts and get such low performance out of them I'll never know
[02:18:55] <pfred1> yeah PCs in general are pretty light duty equipment I guess
[02:19:23] <eric_unterhausen> thermal management is important with these things
[02:19:37] <pfred1> but typically a clone half the CPU of a big integrators system is the same performance
[02:19:53] <eric_unterhausen> not sure I believe that
[02:19:55] <pfred1> though oddly Gateways aren't too bad
[02:20:09] <pfred1> least the ones I've messed with
[02:20:24] <pfred1> but HP Dell and Compaq are all about the same
[02:20:59] <skunkworks> funny - I hate gateways. (had too many failures)
[02:21:08] <skunkworks> had really good luck with dell.
[02:21:19] <pfred1> skunkworks they seem to be put together the most genericlly to me
[02:21:20] <skunkworks> hp and compaq I don't touch
[02:21:35] <pfred1> skunkworks they're like clones with a badge
[02:21:40] <eric_unterhausen> I've bought so many dells that my experience is all over the map.
[02:21:57] <eric_unterhausen> They are usually really good to deal with, but I wouldn't buy one for home
[02:21:58] <pfred1> know who does badge a wicked system?
[02:22:14] <pfred1> not suprisingly big blue IBM
[02:22:24] <pfred1> their stuff is bulletproof
[02:22:43] <pfred1> least they did
[02:22:57] <eric_unterhausen> they're gone, it's just a brand now
[02:23:15] <pfred1> yeah I've seen some nice IBMs
[02:23:21] <eric_unterhausen> the last one I had to deal with was simply impossible
[02:23:26] <pfred1> well designed and executed
[02:23:38] <pfred1> swing out drive bays nice touches like that
[02:24:09] <pfred1> I always used to run deathstar HDDs too
[02:25:13] <spasticteapot> eric_unterhausen: Yes, but once you're spending some cash, you could buy something with better tech support.
[02:25:21] <spasticteapot> Unless you're corporate, they're a nightmare to deal with.
[02:25:31] <spasticteapot> My next laptop is going to be Apple. They suck, but at least they're not Dell.
[02:25:52] <pfred1> I won't use Apple for moral reasons
[02:25:54] <eric_unterhausen> gateway is no fun to deal with on a personal system either
[02:26:02] <mikeggg> i love my apple!
[02:26:16] <Valen> whiteboxes for me
[02:26:20] <eric_unterhausen> you'll buy an IBM == sweatshop chinese made pos, but not an apple?
[02:26:22] <pfred1> Steve Jobs is the scum of the Earth!
[02:27:17] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen the Chinese have ot work too you know?
[02:27:33] <pfred1> eric_unterhausen and who said anything about buy?
[02:27:57] <pfred1> I pick up PCs at the dumps
[02:28:02] <pfred1> by the truckload
[02:28:28] <pfred1> most of them still work if you say flip a floppy cable around in them or somethng
[02:29:12] <pfred1> one I gotta tell you about this one I take it apart pull out the mobo and what do I find under it?
[02:29:21] <Valen> orangedog
[02:29:26] <Valen> sorry wrong window
[02:29:32] <pfred1> whatever knucklehead that put it together left the pink conductive foam on it!
[02:31:17] <pfred1> * pfred1 had a mad stereo collection too hint check the Tape Monitor button on those
[02:31:44] <pfred1> half I've picked up that was what was wrong with them
[02:33:28] <Valen> I find if you strip and rebuild them most of the time they just start working again
[02:34:55] <pfred1> Valen when I say its broken its done
[02:37:54] <Valen> lol
[02:38:04] <Valen> I meant for computers that were working but have now stopped
[02:38:25] <pfred1> yes
[03:09:31] <Dave911> Whoops, sorry my bad.
[03:09:33] <Dave911> Tested again with gxlgears running 13,000 jitter on the base thread and 10,000 jitter on the servo thread..
[03:09:35] <Dave911> I must have been dreaming. ;-)
[03:09:49] <unter> I have about 20 glx gears running
[03:10:00] <Dave911> This is the Intel Atom 330 dual core Mini Itx board.
[03:10:59] <unter> Dave911 seems acceptable though
[03:11:35] <Dave911> For me it is very acceptable - even when catching pulses on a spindle encoder with the LPT port.
[03:12:26] <unter> I'm using a mesa, so it's even more acceptable
[03:13:11] <unter> just have to figure out how to mount two hard drives -- again
[03:13:30] <Dave911> It would be nice to have less jitter but this is not exactly a hi horsepower board... and for $79 I have a hard time finding anything to complain about! :-)
[03:13:32] <Dave911> Yep, if you are using a Mesa setup then the servo thread should be plenty stable.
[03:13:57] <unter> my desktop has less jitter I think, but I'm not hooking that up to the mill
[03:14:35] <unter> I'm on my old desktop, it gets 9000/12000 for jitter
[03:15:25] <Dave911> The Intel Mini Itx is sweet in that it takes very little power to run and it is small, plus the cost for the entire board and CPU is less than many plug in CPUs.
[03:15:35] <unter> the size is nice
[03:16:02] <unter> I'm tight on space, and the cabinet is bigger than I would like anyway
[03:16:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Oh, good to know
[03:17:02] <SWPadnos> yes. I was happy to (a) find the fix and (b) see that it seems to work
[03:17:51] <Valen> Dave911 If its the dual core board you can run SMP kernel on it and probably hit that 2000 or so latency
[03:17:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Oh man... got 14+1.5 steaks out of it. Tender and flavorful too - best piece of beef I've bought in a very long time. that was one $35 bet that paid off very well.
[03:18:23] <SWPadnos> nice
[03:18:29] <pfred1> * pfred1 is more the seafood eater
[03:18:47] <SWPadnos> either will do
[03:18:51] <unter> * unter knew someone that died of mad cow
[03:18:56] <Dave911> SWPadnos: >>you have to do an install to get the esperimental SMP kernel
[03:18:58] <Dave911> How hard is it to compile an SMP kernal for the Atom 330 CPU?? I would not even know where to start to find the source code.
[03:19:06] <pfred1> well when I'm choosing I tend to go for what swam
[03:19:24] <Valen> you can download it
[03:19:30] <SWPadnos> Dave911, it might be easier to start with the packages in the /experimental directory on linuxcnc.org
[03:19:31] <Jymmm> cows swim
[03:19:35] <Valen> you do need to compile emc though
[03:19:35] <pfred1> not to say that I haven't had some good beef
[03:19:49] <SWPadnos> there are also SMP-aware EMC2 packages there, I beliece
[03:19:52] <SWPadnos> believe
[03:20:01] <Valen> orly, are they current?
[03:20:11] <Valen> that would make life really easy ;->
[03:20:20] <Dave911> Compiling EMC is no problem, I've already done that...
[03:20:29] <pfred1> http://www.omahasteaks.com/servlet/browse/1/Filet-Mignons/Filet-Mignons-4-10oz.;jsessionid=A290CDF83EA0FF29BC777C9C243D79BC?Dsp=148&RAND=24AK6704
[03:20:35] <Valen> then yeah, just get the packaged kernels and recompile emc
[03:20:55] <pfred1> dang that picture is making me hungry!
[03:20:57] <Jymmm> pfred1: those are crap
[03:21:09] <pfred1> Jymmm I've had good luck with it
[03:21:27] <pfred1> Jymmm grilled them up and they melted in my mouth
[03:21:31] <Dave911> Thanks for the tip, I'll go look for them.... so you have to recompile EMC after a new Kernel is loaded, I would not have guessed that....
[03:21:38] <Valen> too raw for my tastes ;->
[03:21:45] <Valen> yeah it links in to the kernel
[03:21:52] <Valen> hold up a minute i'll find the tutorial
[03:22:11] <pfred1> Valen they go down like you're eating pats of butter
[03:22:20] <Valen> I like to chew though
[03:22:22] <Valen> ;->
[03:22:44] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_With_Custom_Kernel
[03:23:05] <Dave911> Cool, Thanks Valen!
[03:23:11] <SWPadnos> Valen, no, the EMC packages there aren't all that current, unfortunately
[03:23:14] <pfred1> I been giving my parallel port breakout board a lot of thought lately
[03:23:16] <Valen> basically you can follow that but don't worry about compiling the kernel, just install the packages
[03:23:24] <Valen> compile emc
[03:23:30] <Jymmm> Didn't jepler test using SMP and found that you have to load up the 2nd cpu to get an performance?
[03:23:35] <SWPadnos> there are also kernels and ECM2 packages for Karmic there, which are pretty current
[03:23:37] <Jymmm> maybe cradek
[03:23:40] <pfred1> hey heres a question how important is it for the port to be bidirectional?
[03:23:40] <SWPadnos> that was me
[03:23:49] <Jymmm> or SWPadnos =)
[03:23:50] <Valen> do the mod to menu.lst so you get the full benefit of the second CPU
[03:23:55] <pfred1> seems like once you're one way or the other you stick with it
[03:23:59] <SWPadnos> but it only works on Intel CPUs, and I haven't checked the Atom
[03:24:09] <Jymmm> ah
[03:24:15] <SWPadnos> it didn't do any good on an Opteron / Athlon X(something) I tried
[03:24:15] <Valen> SWPadnos is that with the isocpu thing?
[03:24:19] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:24:43] <SWPadnos> even with isolcpus, latencies improved drastically when the non-isolated CPU was loaded
[03:24:50] <Valen> is that in an email or something? I'd be interested to see about it?
[03:25:07] <SWPadnos> drastic meaning down to under 1 uS
[03:25:15] <Jymmm> O_o
[03:25:16] <Valen> damn thats pretty good
[03:25:16] <SWPadnos> peaks to 2 uS
[03:25:22] <Valen> double damn
[03:25:28] <Valen> what did you do to cause the load?
[03:25:29] <SWPadnos> though that was a special case - no network, no X
[03:25:38] <Valen> still, it might carry over
[03:25:41] <SWPadnos> while true ; do echo "nothing" > /dev/null ; done
[03:25:46] <Valen> I'll try it in a few hours
[03:25:55] <Valen> off to dads place to fuck with his tv computer ;->
[03:26:03] <Jymmm> for ($i=1;$i=2048:$i*$i){}
[03:26:20] <Valen> wget the_interwebs | grep "porn" ?
[03:26:34] <pfred1> anyone care to share what they're using as their breakout boards?
[03:26:43] <pfred1> parallel port examples
[03:28:56] <Dave911> Thanks for the tips guys on the SMP stuff. That tutorial even mentions the Atom 330 CPU. I think that is a must have since I am going to be using a few of these boards anyway. Might as well get the software tweaked in right.
[03:29:15] <Valen> I found it also let me use the nvidia binary driver too
[03:29:35] <Valen> only issue is starting a new GL window causes a single latency spike of ~30-40k
[03:29:41] <pfred1> I like nvidia over nv
[03:30:17] <pfred1> I understand somes opposition on political stance but hey nvidia does what they can
[03:30:18] <Valen> nothing like busting out some mad urban terror skillz whilst milling stuff huh? ;->
[03:30:37] <pfred1> I've just found it to run smoother
[03:30:48] <Valen> there is an issue with nvida binary causing latency spikes in EMC hence why people dont use it
[03:30:53] <Dave911> Does that mean that if you open up another app while running EMC2 you will see that spike?
[03:31:07] <Valen> only if that app is 3d/opengl
[03:31:31] <Valen> so starting glx-gears causes it
[03:31:48] <Valen> but outside that there are no issues that I could see in a few hours of running
[03:32:00] <pfred1> yes if you're CNCing might be best if you didn't start up a game of CounterStrike
[03:32:28] <Dave911> OK, well if the operator fires up glxgears while cutting metal I think I have a bigger problem!
[03:32:30] <Valen> it only causes the one spike, once its running its fine
[03:32:44] <Valen> yeah, but you wont have that problem on the intel boards i dont think
[03:33:05] <Dave911> Oooooo.... even better!
[03:33:29] <Valen> its something specific to nvidia binary
[03:33:36] <Valen> oh yeah ,you can run compiz too ;->
[03:33:42] <Valen> 3d spinny desktop for the win ;->
[03:33:45] <Valen> gtg bbl
[03:34:22] <pfred1> * pfred1 isn't much of a multitasker
[03:35:27] <Dave911> LPT Breakout boards.... Honestly I try to avoid them. I tend to use PLCs for 24v I/O and for inputs/outputs. I/O that need a direct connect to the LPT port I use a voltage divider to get the 24 volt inputs down to 5v. It seems to work very well.
[03:36:09] <pfred1> Dave911 I plan on connecting right to a plain PC
[03:36:26] <Dave911> That is usually what I do also...
[03:37:50] <Dave911> Hi quality BOBs are not very common unfortunately. PMDX and Campbells seem to be two good ones. CNC4PC quality is all over the place.
[03:38:05] <pfred1> I have no PLC in my project
[03:38:30] <pfred1> well I'm making my own
[03:38:38] <pfred1> its just a breakout board
[03:38:54] <Dave911> If you don't have a lot of I/O then you may not need anything like a PLC.
[03:39:19] <Dave911> Well then "you" are quality control.. ;-)
[03:39:21] <pfred1> oh there'll be no PLC I can guarantee that too advanced for me there
[03:39:53] <pfred1> for what I am doing I don't see the need
[03:40:13] <Dave911> There is no need to make it more complex than it needs to be.
[03:40:29] <pfred1> yeah that is what I'm worried I will do
[03:40:39] <pfred1> make something a lot more elaborate than it needs to be
[03:41:08] <pfred1> from what I've seen of BoBs they seem to just be a bufferor a transciever
[03:41:12] <Dave911> If you are doing your own BOB and you plan carefully and make sure you have a few spare I/O, you will probably be fine.
[03:41:49] <Dave911> Yes, some have OPTO isolation also, but that honestly is usually only required if you really make a big wiring error....
[03:42:11] <pfred1> heh yeah I could see it being useful there
[03:42:18] <pfred1> and I've done it too!
[03:42:22] <Dave911> And even then if you don't have separate power supplies for both sides of the OPTOs you really aren't isolated anyway
[03:42:39] <pfred1> its is the stuff that you say to yourself I'll never do that that you can do
[03:42:54] <pfred1> because you're not looking out for it
[03:44:03] <Dave911> I had a servo drive blow and it killed a PLC that was connected to it and also a power supply, but the LPT port that was wired directly to the drive lived! LPT ports are pretty durable. Still I tend to use PCI LPT cards as an extra layer of protection.
[03:45:21] <pfred1> yeah the BOB I make I want to be like I can screw up beyond it and never have to worry about messing up the PC
[03:45:38] <Dave911> Have you seen this.....
[03:45:40] <Dave911> http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/bob.html
[03:45:40] <pfred1> so I can see having seperate power on the PC side of the optos a good plan
[03:46:00] <pfred1> yeah people keep showing me that
[03:46:14] <Dave911> Sorry.. ;-)
[03:46:33] <pfred1> I don't see what the transcievers would do for me from what I can understand of it all
[03:46:51] <pfred1> seems like once yu've picked your direction that is what you run with
[03:47:24] <Dave911> Well they crank up the source and sink current to 20 ma or so and they act as a fuse (hopefully) in case something goes wrong.
[03:48:27] <Dave911> Watch out also as many or most of the new onboard LPT ports are 3.3v ports not 5v ports. The PCI LPT cards I buy have 5v ports.
[03:48:47] <pfred1> would have to use CMOS then
[03:49:05] <pfred1> 3.3 a little low even for CMOS though
[03:49:25] <pfred1> I still can't get optoing right out of the PC out of my head
[03:49:43] <pfred1> with fet drivers
[03:49:58] <Dave911> On the 3.3 volt ports you can pull up the pins to 5 volts - usually with no problems at all. You just need to be aware of that.
[03:50:20] <pfred1> heh treat them as OC huh?
[03:50:37] <Dave911> Actually I think you can drive optos right from the PC -- exactly treat them as OCs.
[03:51:22] <pfred1> Dave911 yeah well I'm a paranoid spaz I'd do something like have 2M resistors switching signal fets to drive optos
[03:51:42] <Dave911> If you limit the LPT port sinking current to 12 ma or so you should be safe..
[03:52:10] <pfred1> a fet behind a 2M resistor would be like 2uA
[03:52:16] <pfred1> if that
[03:52:48] <pfred1> but yeah whatever i do will be well below 6mA
[03:52:49] <Dave911> PC hardware is pretty cheap. If you use a PCI LPT card you might blow the card, but you would have to really work at it to blow the motherboard..
[03:53:51] <pfred1> my last PC blew up I wasn't even around when it happened I think it was lightning or a power spike
[03:54:00] <Dave911> I get a little concerned if there is not enough current - I don't want stuff to go into oscillation etc
[03:54:17] <Dave911> That happens..
[03:54:40] <pfred1> this PC is the remmnants of that the HDDs lived well one half did
[03:54:51] <pfred1> but most everything else was fried
[03:55:16] <Dave911> I've been losing PC power supplies the last few years. They cheap ones are now really cheap! Didn't use to be that way.
[03:55:52] <pfred1> all PC stuff is horrible quality I'm honestly amazed any of it works
[03:56:03] <pfred1> for what it is
[03:56:14] <Dave911> I live out in the country and the first 7 years we lived here I was having a lot of PC issues so I started using UPSs - that solved that problem. Power line noise and spikes were causing all kinds of problems.
[03:56:22] <pfred1> they don't expect you to run a PC more than 2 years
[03:56:40] <Dave911> Yep, a lot of PC stuff is pretty much junk anymore
[03:56:49] <pfred1> heh a guy from the power company moved down the steet from me since then it has been much better!
[03:57:11] <pfred1> I mean its noticable
[03:57:15] <Dave911> Haha..... sounds like a good neighbor!
[03:57:26] <pfred1> I wave when I see him
[03:57:45] <pfred1> but no seriously he parks the bucket truck in his yard thats how i know
[03:58:01] <pfred1> and it is my power company he works for
[03:58:01] <Dave911> They put a new substation down the road from me and our power problems vanished. Oh I believe you.
[03:58:19] <pfred1> we have two around here
[03:58:41] <pfred1> pfft all I got down the street from me is corn and buffalo
[03:59:06] <pfred1> heck we don't even have copper power lines they're bare galvanized
[03:59:43] <Dave911> corn and buffalo?? We have a guy down the road that raises buffalo. Mean looking critters.
[03:59:53] <pfred1> ah ours are so cute
[04:00:32] <pfred1> this really isn't buffalo country but the guy around the corner has a herd
[04:00:49] <Dave911> The power service in the US at least varies tremendously. Some places in the south like Alabama, it is downright horrible.
[04:00:56] <pfred1> bison are buffalo right?
[04:01:07] <Dave911> That's what I thought!
[04:01:21] <pfred1> yeah me too I'm from the city so what do I know?
[04:01:56] <pfred1> I wouldn't even know they're bison cept for the sign hs has out front
[04:02:01] <Dave911> To me they look like cattle that got hairy and lifted a lot of weights... ;-)
[04:02:26] <pfred1> for cows you have to turn left
[04:02:43] <Dave911> You are in the country....
[04:03:02] <Dave911> Are llamas big around you? They have those around here also.
[04:03:09] <pfred1> alpacas
[04:03:20] <Dave911> Those are some goofy looking animals.
[04:03:40] <Dave911> I'm sorry alpacas.... I get them mixed up.
[04:03:53] <Dave911> I think?
[04:04:38] <pfred1> this is me here
[04:04:42] <pfred1> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.689689,-75.275697&spn=0.001685,0.002116&t=h&z=19
[04:07:57] <pfred1> so I'm out in the sticks
[04:08:05] <Dave911> I like Delaware. I used to travel there quite a bit. I'm in Northern Indiana.....
[04:08:20] <Dave911> sticks are good!
[04:08:26] <pfred1> yeah we get lots of tourists in season
[04:08:46] <Dave911> I spent a few weeks in Manhattan and just about went crazy
[04:09:00] <pfred1> going out to 1 to the grocery store the day before memorial day is funny
[04:09:25] <pfred1> heh I lived most of my live within sight of Manhattan
[04:09:53] <pfred1> but it got to me eventually didn't mind so much when I was younger
[04:10:14] <pfred1> now crowds sort of freak me out
[04:10:46] <Dave911> The weather in Delaware is very moderate compared to Indiana.
[04:10:48] <Dave911> I stayed in Manhattan back in the early 80's and the bus smoke really bothered me.
[04:11:28] <pfred1> were you by the bus terminal?
[04:11:38] <pfred1> because that is an especially bad area
[04:12:07] <pfred1> hey it was cold as hell here last winter
[04:12:18] <pfred1> but yeah usually snow melts by 11 AM
[04:12:33] <Dave911> No, I had to walk from a hotel to my workplace and for some reason the smoke from the buses back then was really bad. I doubt it is so bad now.
[04:12:59] <Dave911> We had a cold winter last year also.... let's hope this one is nicer!
[04:13:06] <pfred1> I went to NYC once in a blizzard and the only things on the road still were the busses
[04:13:24] <pfred1> only time i saw that town sort of quiet
[04:13:45] <pfred1> and I've been to NYC all hours of the day and night
[04:14:03] <Dave911> I had a chance to go back to NYC last year, and I decided not to.. I saw enough of that city...
[04:14:05] <Dave911> That city truly never sleeps.
[04:14:08] <pfred1> it is a bit nuts when you're out at 4:30 AM and theres people all over the place
[04:14:34] <Dave911> Yeah, I don't know what they do... work 2nd shift?
[04:14:36] <pfred1> I saw it sleep once but it took like 2 feet of snow to do it
[04:15:03] <Dave911> crazy .. well I gotta go and get some sleep... later!
[04:15:13] <pfred1> the people out at 4:30 AM in NYC don't look like the regular working type to me :)
[04:15:33] <Dave911> No probably not. ;-)
[04:15:42] <Dave911> bye
[04:15:47] <pfred1> l8r
[06:47:12] <toastydeath__> toastydeath__ is now known as toastydeath
[10:37:41] <piasdom_> g'mornin all
[10:49:17] <MattyMatt> good morning
[10:50:30] <MattyMatt> these chinese Workmates are cheap way to get acme threads. I wonder how accurate they are?
[10:51:13] <MattyMatt> worse than scissor jacks probably
[11:01:28] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[11:11:08] <MattyMatt> they're not too bad actually. all the slop is in the bearings. not much backlash between the screw and the nut
[11:11:45] <MattyMatt> I can feel it, but not see it, so it's probably within my 0.1mm spec
[11:12:08] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt has no dial gauge
[11:12:19] <pjm_> good morning
[11:13:53] <MattyMatt> good morning
[11:17:47] <MattyMatt> 160mm of useful thread on a 300mm shaft. 150mm travel in the slide. I'm thinking Z motion
[11:22:21] <MattyMatt> 10mm diameter. twin start 4mm pitch
[11:23:07] <pjm_> ah yes i use a twin start leadscrew for my Z axis too, seems to be pretty good, its also using them zero backlash plastic 'nuts'
[11:23:31] <MattyMatt> this has metal nuts. presumably potmetal
[11:24:02] <pjm_> i have another of the same type of Z leadscrew here too, just dont know where to get compatible nuts for it
[11:24:07] <pjm_> would be handy for something i'm sure
[11:24:26] <MattyMatt> a Workmate costs 10 quid and has 2
[11:25:38] <MattyMatt> make an epoxy nut
[11:26:09] <MattyMatt> graphite loaded
[11:26:52] <pjm_> yeah that could be something interesting to play with
[11:27:01] <pjm_> how do u get it off the lead screw once it has set?
[11:27:25] <MattyMatt> spray it with teflon first? :)
[11:27:40] <MattyMatt> or wax it
[11:28:28] <MattyMatt> then use a spanner to work it loose
[11:29:51] <pjm_> good thinking re the teflon
[11:30:02] <MattyMatt> I have a can of graphite loaded teflon spray, as it happens. my zinc screws will get a coat of that
[11:31:17] <pjm_> anyway before i do that nut project, i really should crack on with the 4th axis
[11:31:46] <pjm_> i have all the software side done, just need to physically attach the stepper to the rotary table, and find another decant microstepper driver
[11:32:58] <MattyMatt> most gearing schemes I can think of (worm gear, belt) provide big gear ratio. do you need fine steps?
[11:33:42] <pjm_> probably not, but might do in the future
[11:34:00] <pjm_> currently my xyz drivers are set for 51200 steps per rev
[11:34:18] <MattyMatt> neat :)
[11:34:24] <pjm_> which is the maximum that the drivers will do
[11:35:24] <MattyMatt> I expect it increases the demands on the PC, to send pulses that quickly
[11:35:36] <pjm_> ah well its all driven with a 7i43
[11:36:02] <pjm_> so i thought since it can do all that in the fpga, i might as well get it running full bollock so to speak
[11:36:15] <MattyMatt> yeah
[11:47:51] <MattyMatt> I have a very flat nema23 1"+ spindle. that's be nice in the cradle of a 5th axis
[11:48:29] <pjm_> ah yes a nice motor
[11:49:13] <pjm_> btw i watched a prog called 'micromen' the other day about spectrum/acorn rivalry, was very interesting
[11:49:50] <MattyMatt> yeah. I gotta get that sample for a ringtone
[11:49:58] <pjm_> hahh
[11:50:28] <MattyMatt> "All I'll be remembered for is Jet Set Fucking Willy"
[11:50:36] <pjm_> yeah i LOL'd at that
[11:50:38] <pjm_> very amusing
[11:50:51] <pjm_> mind u it was a damn good one, i never completed it however
[11:51:18] <MattyMatt> not many people did. you had to patch the bug, for a start
[11:51:52] <MattyMatt> but that didn't matter until you got into The Attic :)
[11:51:57] <pjm_> ah yes most of the copies of 'your spectrum' had all the pokes
[11:53:13] <pjm_> my only game on the spec was sometihng i wrote called 'apple orchard' in assembler, prestel even wanted it for their downloadable games c**p
[11:54:17] <MattyMatt> I had a vtx2000, but I couldn't afford to plug it in
[11:54:24] <MattyMatt> story of my life
[11:54:40] <pjm_> hahh LOL very good ;-)
[11:55:16] <pjm_> yeah me too, they were good modems, i remember the first 150 quid phone bill, that was basically the end of my online comms, me dad installed a f'ing key switch in the phone line
[11:57:55] <pjm_> ah well the good old days
[11:58:05] <pjm_> i guess if it hadnt been for my speccy i'd not be in IT now
[11:59:47] <archivist> hehe /me never got switched off by dad
[12:00:09] <archivist> it was all to slow to be usable
[12:00:26] <archivist> viewdata
[12:00:52] <pjm_> hahh nah it was cool, 1200/75 was well fast!
[12:01:13] <pjm_> i got a pace linnet after my vtx5000, that did 300/300 which was damn good
[12:01:57] <pjm_> i had some decant hamradio apps for the speccy too, for HF teletype and fax etc
[12:01:58] <archivist> I used prestel for my first online purchase, inmos databook
[12:02:03] <pjm_> ohh
[12:02:23] <pjm_> i found in some c**p me dad give me, our original user agreement for prestel
[12:02:28] <pjm_> dunno if they even are still around
[12:03:00] <archivist> something lasted till about 10 years ago for travel agents
[12:03:35] <pjm_> ah yes that crappy old ABTA system, i remember that
[12:04:04] <archivist> we did some last minute stuff
[12:04:26] <archivist> feeding open slots to agents
[12:08:01] <archivist> most money was made selling printers to them epson with added viewdata modem
[14:52:33] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[17:02:57] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[17:19:04] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[17:45:07] <yoyoek1> hi
[17:52:50] <pjm_> evening
[17:55:48] <MrSunshine> my machine is 0.6 - 0.8mm off, might be due to the backlash tho .. or whatever its named =)
[17:56:46] <archivist> thats a lot
[17:57:42] <MrSunshine> aye
[17:57:43] <MrSunshine> =)
[17:57:48] <MrSunshine> the lock nuts has no lock left
[17:57:53] <MrSunshine> so they screw themselfs up :P
[17:58:02] <MrSunshine> hence the backlash :P
[17:58:13] <MrSunshine> still alot closer then i can do by hand :P
[17:58:51] <MrSunshine> no, thats 0.4 on X and 0.6 on Y
[17:59:00] <MrSunshine> oh well, have to fiddle with it, change lock nuts etc =)
[18:03:12] <yoyoek1> ajjj :) tool size is working !! :))
[18:09:25] <tarzan_> 0.6 - 0.8mm is no precission
[18:09:55] <tarzan_> machine tool should give .001 " +/
[18:10:10] <tarzan_> +/-
[18:28:21] <MrSunshine> tarzan_, aye =)
[18:29:00] <MrSunshine> tarzan_, ive tinkered nothing with it, have wood motor mounts that can bend, and broken lock nuts that do not lock :P
[18:41:19] <MrSunshine> ough think ive got the hugest backlashes in the history of time .. its like 1mm+ off P
[18:41:20] <MrSunshine> :P
[19:07:40] <piasdom_> is there something in emc2 to compensate for my leadscrew backlash?
[19:08:07] <gweepprefect> yes
[19:08:23] <gweepprefect> BACKLASH = [n] in machine units, e.g. .003
[19:08:35] <piasdom_> hal ? ini file ?
[19:08:46] <gweepprefect> and your stepgen_maxaccel has to be 1.5 to 2x max_acceleration figure
[19:08:53] <gweepprefect> it's in the ini, in each [AXIS] section
[19:09:17] <piasdom_> gweepprefect: thanks
[19:09:23] <gweepprefect> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_ini_config.html#sub:[AXIS]-section
[20:37:16] <frallzor> hello girls
[20:44:14] <archivist_attic> !
[20:45:31] <celeron55_> linux + cnc = no girls
[20:46:01] <gweepprefect> haha
[20:46:10] <archivist_attic> you may just get a slap for that
[20:46:25] <cradek> I know for a fact that some women use linux
[20:46:50] <celeron55_> well, do you know a woman who does cnc and uses linux? :D
[20:47:05] <cradek> ...
[20:48:29] <archivist_attic> we had one in a few weeks ago ipink
[20:48:49] <archivist_attic> dunno if she will succeed
[20:51:14] <frallzor> I know of one women that has do to with cnc
[20:51:24] <frallzor> and she runs a company that suck donkey...
[20:51:26] <frallzor> *s
[20:51:33] <frallzor> they do cnc-stuff and shit
[21:22:53] <yoyoek1> biutifull :) http://yoyo.ghost.pl/fb/upload/1258060939_mGcodeGenerator_to_3dcam.jpg
[21:33:23] <Dave911> I once knew a really sharp lady that worked for Kodak in Rochester. CNC, Linux, Unix, VME, process control - no big deal for her. She is the only female I have ever met like that in this business. On top of that she was really good looking also. If you are female and can do this stuff I think you can write your own ticket. My daughter has a friend who is working on a computer...
[21:33:25] <Dave911> ...engineering degree from Purdue and she has companies falling over themselves to try and get her onboard.
[21:33:54] <Dave911> Yeah, what happened to Ipink? She was certainly trying....
[21:34:50] <MrSunshine> what is recomended to use as home switches
[21:34:51] <MrSunshine> ?
[21:37:27] <archivist> looks good yoyoek1
[21:38:04] <yoyoek1> I'w rewrite'd all engin today
[21:38:48] <yoyoek1> I still don't know how to get rithoff that "pixels" after milling :/
[21:40:19] <archivist> better finish is by making the passes closer together
[21:40:28] <toastydeath> pixels after milling?
[21:40:57] <archivist> inherent in the method
[21:41:31] <yoyoek1> one moment I will upload a photo
[21:43:54] <yoyoek1> pixels http://yoyo.ghost.pl/fb/?&tag=mGcodeGenerator&id=1118&subPage=detale
[21:44:49] <yoyoek1> diffrent algorithm off movment head?
[21:45:11] <archivist> yoyoek1, make the passes closer, it will take longer but will look nicer
[21:45:36] <yoyoek1> hyy
[21:45:37] <cradek> smaller tool, smaller step
[21:45:51] <toastydeath> woah
[21:45:53] <toastydeath> much smaller step
[21:46:02] <yoyoek1> one pass cover ~ 1/3 off next pass
[21:46:28] <toastydeath> finish passes for ball nose endmills move over .002" or so
[21:46:28] <yoyoek1> stops I think not smaler gaps bitwine pass
[21:46:28] <archivist> too coarse
[21:46:37] <toastydeath> to get a truly smooth finish
[21:46:52] <yoyoek1> I don't have ball nose end :/
[21:47:07] <toastydeath> oh, that also is why it looks like that.
[21:47:10] <toastydeath> get a ball nose endmill.
[21:48:03] <yoyoek1> ok I will add new button to add "subpass" on finish layer
[21:48:34] <toastydeath> well, no matter how much you do crazy pass things it's still going to look weird because you're trying to use something with sharp edges
[21:49:05] <archivist> smaller the better for high definition
[21:50:02] <yoyoek1> subpass button will be cool 2
[21:59:41] <ftkalcevic> I'm trying to use the touch off dialog in Axis (git master). When I try to set the Z of coordinate system p1 g54, on the dialog it shows "Unable to open file" and won't let me set the value. Any ideas? There are no messages on the console or dmesg.
[22:00:35] <MrSunshine_> hmm, why isnt there a home button in axis? .. that makes it run until it hits all the home switches and homes?
[22:01:09] <cradek> MrSunshine_: there is - it's marked "Home" or "Home All" depending on whether you have a homing sequence
[22:01:23] <cradek> ftkalcevic: which git revision do you have exactly?
[22:01:36] <MrSunshine_> cradek, humm, only does something if i have homing switches i guess?
[22:01:57] <MrSunshine_> i mean the kind of home that runs it until it hits the home switches, the only thing it does now (without home siwtches) is to zero out the values
[22:02:07] <ftkalcevic> About 5 days old. When the dialog pops up, I can hit ok to accept 0, but can't type a number.
[22:02:19] <cradek> MrSunshine_: I'm very puzzled that you don't see it
[22:02:36] <cradek> ftkalcevic: do a git log -1
[22:02:46] <MrSunshine_> cradek, ill look more tomorrow =)
[22:03:13] <ftkalcevic> It shows...
[22:03:17] <ftkalcevic> Author: Chris Radek <chris@timeguy.com> Date: Fri Nov 6 20:00:52 2009 -0600 fix up all the tool tables, yet again
[22:04:29] <cradek> ftkalcevic: it works for me, and I don't see a relevant change since then
[22:04:44] <cradek> ftkalcevic: run-in-place build? tell me more about your setup.
[22:05:47] <ftkalcevic> Yes, in place. The only thing I do different is delete my var file in my start script. I was confused by it reloading offsets.
[22:06:30] <cradek> "doctor doctor, it hurts when I do this"
[22:06:58] <ftkalcevic> Hmmm. I just restarted emc and it started working again. I've had a lot of that recently.
[22:07:10] <cradek> don't delete your var file and see if that helps
[22:07:21] <cradek> the var file is there for a reason...
[22:07:49] <MrSunshine_> http://www.brundin.biz/images/4-axis-driver_board.jpg anyone know how the limiting DB9 port works on those cards?
[22:08:08] <MrSunshine_> 4、The definition of limit input:DB9 (1-6) Corresponding to the PC parallel port P13
[22:08:08] <MrSunshine_> DB9 (2-7) Coresponding to the parallel port P12 DB9 (3-8)---- P 11 DB9 (4-9)----P10
[22:08:10] <MrSunshine_> it says
[22:08:22] <MrSunshine_> so is that i connect 1 to the switch then the switch to the 6 ?
[22:08:31] <MrSunshine_> or is both 1 and 6 connected to P13 ?
[22:08:32] <andypugh> Just straight-through connection to the P-Port pins
[22:08:59] <ftkalcevic> Do you know why it is needed? I read the documentation it said variables would only be written to the file if it was already there. However, it appears to write everything everytime.
[22:10:14] <cradek> many are "required" and always written
[22:10:21] <andypugh> MrSunshine: Probably 1 to ground and 6 to 13, or vice-versa
[22:10:24] <cradek> offsets, reference positions
[22:10:36] <MrSunshine_> andypugh, humm ok .. i guess i could check with multimeter if one goes to GND
[22:10:53] <cradek> for one thing, AXIS uses the var file to communicate between the machine-controlling interpreter and the preview-generating interpreter
[22:10:56] <MrSunshine_> so how do they work then, i just short those two and its active, and when its open its inactive? :)
[22:11:21] <ftkalcevic> Even between sessions?
[22:11:25] <andypugh> Or vice-versa, aye
[22:11:44] <cradek> ftkalcevic: yes those things are preserved between sessions - that's the whole point
[22:12:04] <MrSunshine_> what is recomended to use as home switches? :)
[22:12:31] <cradek> ftkalcevic: maybe you should ask for help with the issue that caused you to delete the file in the first place?
[22:12:52] <cradek> MrSunshine_: that's like asking "how long is a stick" unless you say a little more about the application
[22:13:11] <MrSunshine_> about the application .. well homing the machine :)
[22:13:20] <MrSunshine_> and hard limits
[22:13:22] <andypugh> I am very happy with my reflective optical sensors. The focussed type can be triggered by a metal flag 3mm above a surface, and the surface itself doesn't trigger them
[22:13:22] <cradek> MrSunshine_: both of my machines use proxes
[22:13:31] <MrSunshine_> arent those very expensive?
[22:13:35] <gweepprefect> what sort of machine and will you be using flood coolant?
[22:13:52] <MrSunshine_> no flood coolant as off right now atleast
[22:13:57] <gweepprefect> and will you be able to mount them out of the way of chips and other crud?
[22:14:01] <MrSunshine_> and its a 3 axis Seig X1 conversion
[22:14:10] <andypugh> Repeatability is 0.1mm. If you want better then you can add a second trigger to the leadscrew coupling
[22:14:40] <MrSunshine_> andypugh, shouldnt i get about the same with just an ordenary micro switch ? :)
[22:14:47] <cradek> you could just use any old switch you can physically mount
[22:15:05] <ftkalcevic> Yeah. That was a couple of weeks ago. I can't remember exactly what the problem was. I was struggling with offsets and tool offsets in the tool table. Things started working when there were no work offsets to effect my tool offsets. Deleting the var file seemed the easiest way to ensure all work offsets were zero.
[22:15:11] <gweepprefect> limits are certainly less critical
[22:15:23] <archivist> andypugh, change ambient light level and recheck
[22:15:30] <MrSunshine_> aye limits are, but the homing
[22:15:32] <andypugh> Possibly. I thought that they might have wear issues, and I don't like moveing parts
[22:15:34] <cradek> ftkalcevic: you can clear all offsets on the machine menu, 'zero coordinate system ... [offset name]'
[22:15:35] <MrSunshine_> and limit and homing goes on the same lines
[22:15:53] <MrSunshine_> andypugh, ahh true :)
[22:15:59] <MrSunshine_> but micros might do for me to start with ? :)
[22:16:12] <ftkalcevic> cradek: Can that be done on start up?
[22:16:13] <MrSunshine_> cant afford to throw much more money at the machine :)
[22:17:07] <cradek> ftkalcevic: there is no way to do it automatically, no.
[22:17:23] <gweepprefect> microswitches would be cheap and probably fine to start.. if you make adjustable mounts, you should be able to dial them in reasonably well.
[22:17:44] <gweepprefect> you may need to go to some length to keep chips away
[22:18:18] <MrSunshine_> gweepprefect, very true =)
[22:18:29] <ftkalcevic> cradek: I'll try a script that edits the var file and sets the offset variables to zero and leaves the others.
[22:19:16] <cradek> ftkalcevic: IMO, it would be better to learn what you're doing wrong - saving offsets across runs is a very valuable feature if you EVER leave a job set up on the machine.
[22:19:42] <andypugh> I think my opto-sensors were about as cheap as microswitches.
[22:20:05] <cradek> ftkalcevic: my machines home to index (servo) so all positions are saved across runs to exactly the same encoder count
[22:20:50] <gweepprefect> yeah, it's fairly easy to find photointerrupters for cheap
[22:20:51] <cradek> ftkalcevic: the homing process sets up everything so it's the same as the last run.
[22:21:15] <cradek> bbl
[22:22:06] <archivist> I dont have switches I trust to be same yet
[22:22:36] <andypugh> £2.38 each. http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/02af/0900766b802aff18.pdf
[22:23:49] <archivist> Ive had trouble with ambient light on optos
[22:23:54] <andypugh> Installed: http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5403345722696629362
[22:24:41] <andypugh> Though that installation needs a cover. However being focussed it is surprisingly unaffected by bits of swarf in the gap.
[22:24:46] <archivist> mirror gets dirty as well
[22:25:26] <andypugh> I have a comparator and adjustment on the board with each one, then potted up in Milliput
[22:25:37] <ftkalcevic> cradek: This is for my lathe. X homes, then I use tool offsets so the tool tip is alway at the exact position on a tool change. I never want tool offsets on X. Z changes from program to program. I zero this (or try to set it) using the tocuh off screen.
[22:26:09] <ftkalcevic> typo "never want to use fixture offsets for X"
[22:26:13] <andypugh> Touch-off into the tool table then?
[22:27:16] <ftkalcevic> andypugh: Yes, that's what I do. Once set up, as long as I don't smash the tool/tool post into the chuck, every tool is set up.
[22:27:21] <andypugh> Though I touch-off tool 1 into the G54, and then the others into the tool table.
[22:28:01] <ftkalcevic> Yes, I do that too (I think). Everthing is relative to tool 1.
[22:28:02] <andypugh> I am planning on making a touch probe, though, and that will take the place of tool1 in that scheme
[22:28:30] <pjm_> andypugh nice job on the machine, what make was it originally? the actual milling head looks pretty similar to mine once did
[22:31:34] <ftkalcevic> andypugh: Is your lathe a 9x20 style? Did you replace the cross slide screw with a ballscrew? How did you mount it?
[22:32:17] <andypugh> I have no idea what make it is, I bought it from an ebay seller. http://www.amadeal.co.uk/
[22:32:29] <andypugh> Yes, there is an 8mm ballscrew in the cross-slide
[22:32:35] <andypugh> (£20 from rNay)
[22:32:47] <andypugh> (Sorry, eBay I mean)
[22:33:48] <MarkusBec> does anybody controlled an co2 laser with emc2?
[22:34:24] <andypugh> Details of the cross-slide conversion are at http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63621&page=2
[22:34:52] <pjm_> archivist i have piles of opto switches if u need any, they are opb375L11
[22:35:49] <archivist> pjm_, I have some, just little distrustful of accuracy
[22:36:33] <archivist> I have a method where I can get down to about 4 microns, but only have one
[22:36:45] <pjm_> thats pretty good accuracy
[22:36:54] <pjm_> is this for homing or limit?
[22:37:17] <ftkalcevic> andypugh: Nice. I used a 10mm ballscrew, but the nut was too big. So I ran the screw all the way through and mounted the nut on the back of the cross slide table. It sticks out the back a fair way, but I have room.
[22:37:50] <andypugh> Yeah, with the milling head that wasn't an option for me.
[22:38:25] <archivist> pjm_, that was for homing, but there are other issues for gear cutting and setting that I have not bottomed yet
[22:38:58] <andypugh> I was pleased with the idea of putting the thrust bearing arrangement a long way outboard of the drive pulley though. That solved a headache.
[22:39:05] <pjm_> ah yes makes sense, i'm in two minds as to if i should fit seperate opto switches for home
[22:40:30] <andypugh> If you have the pins, then do so.
[22:40:57] <archivist> my cheap rotaries dont have an easy fit of a homing "switch"
[22:41:03] <andypugh> I get mighty annoyed winding all the way to the end of travel and back again to home. You can put a seperate home close to where you wirk
[22:41:52] <andypugh> And if you have a secondary switch on the screw pulley or coupling you can get very accurate homing.
[22:41:54] <archivist> to carry through a power down the homing position must be fixed
[22:41:57] <pjm_> i have tonnes of free IO so far
[22:49:14] <ftkalcevic> andypugh: I like the design. Nice and compact. My crossslide motor was quite long and makes the whole assembly stick out about 25cm from the bed. Because of this I was able to extend the travel a couple of centimeters. I also did that on the otherside too, when I made the mounting blocks.
[22:49:51] <yoyoek1> s y
[22:51:15] <andypugh> Archivist: You could probably use a reflective opto on your rotary, with a drilled hole as the target. if the surface is more than 1mm away from the focal plane it isn't detected so it need not be a deep hole.
[22:51:45] <andypugh> Archivist: I am imagining something mounted inside the base casting.
[22:52:24] <andypugh> ftkalcevic: 25 _cm_?
[22:57:30] <ftkalcevic> Ok, I measured it exactly. It's only 23 centimeters.
[22:57:57] <andypugh> That still seems like quite a sizable protrusion.
[23:01:08] <tacopimp> I wonder if this is compatible with emc..http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Axis-TA8435H-Driver-Board-for-CNC-Stepper-Motor-NEW_W0QQitemZ200402756894QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_15?hash=item2ea8ef651e
[23:01:53] <andypugh> tacopimp: Definitley
[23:02:12] <tacopimp> so get it?
[23:02:53] <tacopimp> lookin for a good board for under a 100 bucs
[23:03:30] <andypugh> I relaced mine....
[23:03:50] <tacopimp> relaced?
[23:04:08] <andypugh> I kept finding ways to blow up the TA8435H chips. They hate phase to phase shorts
[23:04:35] <MrSunshine_> tacopimp, im using one of those
[23:04:38] <MrSunshine_> but 4 axis
[23:04:58] <tacopimp> working ok then?
[23:05:02] <MrSunshine_> aye
[23:05:21] <tacopimp> I just wanna break 1/4 " bits
[23:05:40] <tacopimp> not 3/8 :)
[23:06:54] <tacopimp> andy what kina power it take b4 it blows?
[23:07:50] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[23:07:50] <andypugh> It is fine as long as you don't accidentally short wires together. Driving the actual motors is current-limits to 2.5A
[23:08:58] <jt-plasma> tacopimp: if you can get these over there it is worth it http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14471
[23:10:08] <andypugh> Aye, 3.5A is usefully more, and 50V is a huge advantage over 24V
[23:10:40] <andypugh> (Bear in mind that you run steppers massively over their DC voltage, and let the driver limit the current)
[23:11:40] <tacopimp> 70 bucs an axis ?
[23:12:47] <gweepprefect> the geckos i bought were more like $140/axis
[23:13:01] <andypugh> Start with the cheap chinese board. But you will probably get the bug and want to upgrade about 12 months down the line
[23:14:42] <andypugh> http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?i=14469 looks promising. (If not inexpensive)
[23:15:12] <gweepprefect> many people do seem to like the G540.. it's got limitations (like 50V supply voltage and limited 3.5A/phase current)
[23:15:20] <gweepprefect> but for smaller machines it's fine
[23:15:39] <gweepprefect> and you get a breakout board of sorts as parto f the deal
[23:15:57] <andypugh> And it already does all the opto-isloating, PWM to voltage for the VFD, watchdog-timer charge-pump etc.
[23:16:35] <andypugh> Though I am not at all sure about using DB-9 connectors for the motors.
[23:17:46] <andypugh> If I was starting again I would use Speakon connectors. 20A rated loudspeaker connectors with a very satisfying latching design. I am running my 750W three-phase spindle drives through them.
[23:18:56] <andypugh> Oc course, really you want servos. You can get those for not a lot more than $300 per axis.....
[23:19:02] <andypugh> :-)
[23:19:23] <tacopimp> hehe with encoders of course
[23:19:40] <andypugh> Feature-creep is a problem. Start with the TA8435 board. It matters less if you break it, or lose interest.
[23:20:12] <gweepprefect> Speakons are nice
[23:20:28] <gweepprefect> military type canon connectors are also nice, sometimes findable on ebay
[23:20:54] <andypugh> I used the CB-radio type connectors, but I am not over-fond of them
[23:22:00] <andypugh> I am considering swapping to Speakons if the rebuild when the 7i43 arrives ends up with a new front panel
[23:22:14] <gweepprefect> some of the milspec connectors are waterproof, which is nice for coolant environments
[23:22:52] <tacopimp> the geko is not chinese?
[23:22:59] <gweepprefect> no
[23:23:03] <andypugh> If I get coolant on the drive box I think that the PC will be in trouble before the motor connectors.
[23:23:28] <andypugh> (It is a 1U server mounted in the same home-made rack as the rest of the kit)
[23:23:30] <gweepprefect> andy: ahh, i was talking more on the mill end.. my steppers are going to be connectorized
[23:23:58] <gweepprefect> tacopimp: gecko stuff is made in USA
[23:24:22] <andypugh> Probably not a bad plan. I hard-mounted flex conduit to mine, which I like, but is a pain if a motor needs swapping,
[23:24:25] <tacopimp> well that sells me
[23:25:14] <andypugh> http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5403345560655766370 shows how I did it. crimped on for minimum servicability :-)
[23:25:53] <andypugh> You in Aus Tacopimp?
[23:29:29] <pfred1> I just ordered all the components for my stepper motor drivers!
[23:30:23] <andypugh> That's another option Tacopimp could consider.
[23:30:41] <mikegg> pfred1: sweet, what kind?
[23:31:01] <mikegg> ...wait, are you building them?
[23:31:06] <pfred1> mikegg yes
[23:31:08] <mikegg> cool
[23:31:23] <pfred1> I'm building PWM half stepping unipolar drives
[23:31:42] <pfred1> they're OK
[23:31:59] <andypugh> Right, I have to be up in 5 hours for an 0700 flight. Time to try to get some sleep.
[23:33:37] <pfred1> I bought myself some goodies too
[23:33:46] <pfred1> gotta have the goodies
[23:35:40] <tacopimp> I can use a soldering gun but thats it
[23:36:24] <pfred1> tacopimp hey when things blow up I figure I have to try it a different way
[23:36:42] <pfred1> tacopimp and some electronic power devices really blow up let me tell you!
[23:37:08] <pfred1> tacopimp a TO-220 package can go off like an M-80
[23:39:18] <tacopimp> 300 bucs for the geko breakout and 70 an axis for the drives
[23:40:18] <tacopimp> 500 bucs for a durable piece of gear or 100 for pos
[23:40:31] <celeron55_> pfred1: i've blown a few, too :-)
[23:40:32] <tacopimp> hmmm
[23:41:34] <pfred1> celeron55_ damned blister pack from Rat Shack was wrong on an LM78XX chip
[23:41:49] <pfred1> celeron55_ and man that puppy blew clean in half!
[23:41:50] <tacopimp> or maybe possible bodily damage and lots of sundays cussing my burnt fingers
[23:42:07] <pfred1> oh there was sharpnel
[23:42:45] <pfred1> tacopimp electronics can be pretty exciting sometimes
[23:42:58] <celeron55_> yes, it's funny how they crac in half
[23:43:01] <celeron55_> crack*
[23:43:24] <pfred1> celeron55_ all that was left was the backplane the tab and the middle leg the rest vaporized
[23:44:20] <pfred1> it was like 2:30 in the morning too when it happened
[23:44:20] <pfred1> I was like up late building and when it was done you know had to fire it up
[23:45:00] <celeron55_> i'm going to make a dual motor controller for two 2kW DC motors powered from 22.2 volts of LiPo battery... a good chance to see some fireworks
[23:45:39] <tacopimp> dewalt cell blew up on my son
[23:45:43] <pfred1> making an electric car?
[23:45:50] <celeron55_> well, 2kW of peak power, not so big motors
[23:46:09] <celeron55_> it's a fighting robot
[23:46:16] <Jymmm> Li-Ion (dewalt) != Li-Poly
[23:46:26] <tacopimp> yup
[23:46:38] <celeron55_> actually, they're 24V dewalt hammerdrill motors
[23:47:11] <Jymmm> celeron55_: Well, just bring over the hammerdrill and a 1" concrete bit
[23:47:35] <pfred1> today while i was buying my parts I noticed lots of out os stock items at places like I never seen before
[23:47:55] <pfred1> I couldn't get a lot of stuff I would have liked to
[23:48:22] <celeron55_> Jymmm: umm?
[23:48:46] <pfred1> Jymmm a cordless hammerdrill will run a 1" bit?
[23:48:47] <Jymmm> celeron55_: I need a 1" diam hole drilled in concrete 4" deep
[23:48:57] <Jymmm> fik
[23:48:59] <Jymmm> fiik
[23:49:10] <celeron55_> ah :P
[23:49:11] <pfred1> Jymmm you'd be better off with a core bore
[23:49:33] <pfred1> Jymmm bosch makes a sweet electro pneumatic hammer
[23:50:03] <pfred1> * pfred1 has run every kind of percussion tool known to man
[23:50:13] <pfred1> including dynamite drills
[23:50:33] <pfred1> all jackhammers
[23:50:43] <celeron55_> here's a picture of the robot (not ready yet) http://celer.oni.biz/~celeron55/random/2009-11/op2/12112009(008).jpg
[23:51:01] <celeron55_> it'll be controlled while spinning
[23:51:33] <Jymmm> pfred1: Great, bring it over.
[23:52:00] <pfred1> Jymmm oh I don't have most of them just run them I work construction
[23:52:28] <Jymmm> pfred1: That's fine, bring it over for 20 minutes, then you can take it back.
[23:52:48] <pfred1> celeron55_ what is the chassis?
[23:52:50] <celeron55_> (like this one, if someone is interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhC8QFtTmuo )
[23:52:58] <celeron55_> PE
[23:53:10] <pfred1> celeron55_ you cast it?
[23:53:20] <celeron55_> just 10mm sheet PE
[23:53:29] <celeron55_> very good for fighting robots, lightweight and won't crack
[23:53:35] <pfred1> hmm looks molded to me in the pic
[23:53:46] <celeron55_> http://celer.oni.biz/~celeron55/random/2009-11/op2/12112009(007).jpg
[23:53:55] <celeron55_> two bended pieces around it
[23:54:10] <pfred1> Jymmm I just put a hole into block at my house to run my ethernet cable
[23:54:26] <pfred1> Jymmm you know the foundation
[23:55:12] <pfred1> I used a half inch plug in hammerdrill for a 5/8s hole but didn't do it all in one shot
[23:55:33] <Jymmm> I just need to shove a 1/2" steel bar into the ground
[23:55:40] <celeron55_> the only thing that worries me now is whether the magnets in the motors will stay in place when it spins _very_ fast
[23:56:01] <pfred1> Jymmm when we cut pads you know concrete decking then patch it we drill for ned rebar
[23:56:06] <pfred1> Jymmm when we cut pads you know concrete decking then patch it we drill for new rebar
[23:56:28] <pfred1> Jymmm but then we epoxy the rods into the holes before we pour
[23:57:14] <pfred1> Jymmm stuff comes in tubes the glue we just jamb the rods into the tubes then stick them into the concrete holes
[23:58:15] <pfred1> Jymmm do you have an air compressor?