#emc | Logs for 2009-11-05

[00:13:06] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:15:17] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[01:43:46] <bluntz_> this gives me wood...heh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WCrqqoZkPg&feature=related
[01:45:20] <bluntz_> omg cradek is that urs *blushs*
[01:53:46] <bluntz_> another 5 axis here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjPCEpZybXs&feature=player_embedded
[01:55:33] <skunkworks> you will probably have to use a tissue after this one then.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EYaM4FkASA
[02:00:08] <bluntz_> mad skillz
[02:02:11] <skunkworks> or this one
[02:02:12] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35tHYaDUmZQ
[02:03:08] <bluntz_> nice arsing
[02:03:25] <bluntz_> arcing oops
[02:03:39] <bluntz_> in the last vid
[02:04:13] <bluntz_> table motor
[02:04:47] <bluntz_> looks like maybe it will be a croket ball or something eventually
[02:05:40] <bluntz_> I saw somewhere a guy using a scanner to map into
[02:06:03] <bluntz_> a cad prog
[02:06:37] <bluntz_> like taking a 3d pic
[02:09:14] <bluntz_> wow I will need a towel for this 1
[02:11:09] <bluntz_> makes climb cuts so smoothe
[02:11:20] <bluntz_> oh yea
[02:20:17] <bluntz_> heavy metal
[02:23:07] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[02:52:20] <fenn> bluntz_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35tHYaDUmZQ
[02:54:03] <fenn> d'eaux.. nevermind
[03:14:42] <bluntz_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNn-Yr7it5s&feature=related
[03:14:58] <bluntz_> tool change 0o my
[03:21:07] <cradek> wow, it's so slow and gentle compared to my mill
[03:24:21] <Valen> I like all the stuff on the table
[03:25:15] <Valen> fenn thats a nice machine ;->
[03:25:49] <bluntz_> I saw a threading vid somewhere and the guy had the endstock rigged up with 4 diff cutters
[03:26:09] <bluntz_> just rotated
[03:26:41] <bluntz_> threading like 3000 rpms or something
[03:26:53] <bluntz_> im lookin for it
[03:26:56] <Valen> those ridgid tapping ones are insane ;->
[03:27:48] <bluntz_> I feel like I was 12 again and found dads playboy stash
[03:27:55] <bluntz_> heh
[03:28:12] <Valen> you have odd feelings towards mechanical devices
[03:28:20] <bluntz_> yup
[03:29:18] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1bJ3YAQdI&feature=related thats coool
[03:34:59] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqokK03BJsM&feature=related
[03:35:00] <bluntz_> I got a sweet tooth for custom made tools
[03:35:32] <Valen> I like 50 meters per minute feed rates
[03:37:20] <bluntz_> wow the whole building is the x axis
[03:37:26] <bluntz_> omfg
[03:37:35] <Valen> ?
[03:38:01] <toastydeath> bluntz_, that is a floor type horizontal router
[03:38:13] <bluntz_> I want 1 !!!
[03:39:19] <toastydeath> that is a ridiculous feed rate for a machine that size
[03:40:04] <Valen> you would need it to get anything done
[03:40:45] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsmiIeAkE-o&feature=related would probably float bluntz boat
[03:42:14] <bluntz_> the matsurra doesnt do it tho
[03:42:44] <Valen> solid V8 engine block with mirror finish not floating the boat?
[03:42:57] <bluntz_> the jap name dont
[03:43:12] <Valen> I'm hoping to make those, for 1 cylinder pocket bikes ;->
[03:44:19] <bluntz_> Im workin on an electric trike conversion for my wife
[03:44:32] <Valen> orly, I'm looking at EVing a car
[03:44:34] <Valen> or 3
[03:44:50] <Valen> whats your build?
[03:45:27] <bluntz_> just an escooter drive
[03:45:34] <bluntz_> front mount
[03:46:20] <bluntz_> 250 watt currie
[03:47:07] <Valen> oh a baby
[03:47:17] <bluntz_> lookin for a curtis controller
[03:47:17] <Valen> I thought you were looking at a full size one
[03:47:22] <Valen> on a 250W?
[03:47:23] <bluntz_> nah
[03:47:25] <Valen> whats the point?
[03:47:35] <bluntz_> longevity
[03:47:44] <Valen> super super overkill
[03:47:59] <bluntz_> well I live in fla
[03:48:02] <Valen> I'd be putting some 3Kw brushless drive in there with a $100 controller
[03:48:12] <bluntz_> golfcarts everywhere
[03:48:23] <Valen> with some A123 drive
[03:48:43] <bluntz_> 3 kw?
[03:48:50] <Valen> by scooter, is this like a mobility scooter, big thing or little stand on thing the kids use?
[03:48:53] <Valen> 3 killowatts
[03:49:05] <bluntz_> schwinn 40 amp
[03:49:20] <bluntz_> motor says 8 amp
[03:49:54] <bluntz_> 24 volt
[03:50:38] <Valen> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5142&Product_Name=Turnigy_80-100-B_130Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_%28eq:_70-55%29
[03:51:43] <bluntz_> omg that lil thing is 3 kw?
[03:51:55] <Valen> actually that one is 6.5Kw
[03:52:04] <bluntz_> omfg
[03:52:42] <Valen> well for a while anyway
[03:52:43] <Valen> ;->
[03:54:26] <bluntz_> I was thinking keep the weight down
[03:54:30] <Valen> use 48 volts worth of A123 batteries
[03:54:36] <Valen> it only weighs 2kg
[03:54:38] <bluntz_> had no idea
[03:55:09] <Valen> buttload of cells
[03:55:14] <bluntz_> I wanna do a minibike now too
[03:55:21] <Valen> what range do you want?
[03:55:34] <bluntz_> 12 mi
[03:56:11] <Valen> assuming say 200 whatthours per mile (a car will normally get 200-300 and a bike a bit better at decent speeds)
[03:56:26] <Valen> is that distance or there + back
[03:56:36] <bluntz_> roundtrip
[03:56:38] <Valen> ie 12mi each way or is that thr return trip
[03:56:38] <Valen> ok
[03:56:58] <Valen> need 2400wh worth of cells at 48 volts
[03:57:15] <Valen> around 50 Ah worth of battery should do
[03:57:31] <Valen> hmm that sounds odd to me one minute
[03:57:40] <Valen> no thats about right
[03:58:09] <bluntz_> 4 deep cycle sla
[03:58:10] <Valen> but then yeah, you could probably get away with half that if your not doing 80km/hr ;->
[03:58:16] <Valen> SLA's suck ;->
[03:58:20] <Valen> and super heavy
[03:58:27] <Valen> and they die in like 18months of use
[03:58:29] <bluntz_> but they last
[03:58:36] <Valen> no they die real quick
[03:58:42] <Valen> you want thundersky cells
[03:58:57] <Valen> 2-3x the price but they should last you ~10 years
[03:59:04] <Valen> and weigh 1/3rd as much
[03:59:12] <bluntz_> nimh?
[03:59:29] <Valen> lithium iron phosphate
[03:59:31] <Valen> lifepo
[03:59:53] <Valen> you want about 15 cells
[04:00:24] <bluntz_> for 48 volts?
[04:00:28] <Valen> yeah
[04:00:33] <Valen> they are ~3.2 volts per cell
[04:00:39] <Valen> 40 Ah cells should do it
[04:00:39] <bluntz_> ahh k
[04:00:44] <Valen> http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_batteries_thunder_sky.php
[04:01:13] <Valen> battery weight is 23kg or so (40-50 pounds)
[04:01:42] <Valen> is sitting ~$1.10 per amp hour or so
[04:01:47] <Valen> to $1.30
[04:01:58] <Valen> $52 per cell
[04:02:06] <Valen> $780
[04:02:21] <Valen> so ~ double a good lead acid set
[04:02:46] <bluntz_> yea double is worth it if they last
[04:02:54] <Valen> they seem to be
[04:03:01] <bluntz_> its so new
[04:03:04] <Valen> they had some quality issues to start with but they seem to have sorted that
[04:03:11] <Valen> been out for a few years now
[04:03:22] <Valen> Personally I'd put 2 of those motors in, one per wheel
[04:03:35] <bluntz_> I thought sla went 3 years
[04:03:50] <Valen> might do, but in cars they don't seem to last that long
[04:04:48] <Valen> only additional bits you need are a slightly funkier charger and a battery balancing system
[04:04:58] <Valen> (they usually just clip onto the tops of the cells)
[04:05:38] <Valen> that would be a 21st century one ;->
[04:05:46] <bluntz_> right
[04:05:53] <Valen> and have a kick ass 0-100km/h time ;->
[04:05:59] <bluntz_> I bet
[04:06:33] <bluntz_> I was thinkin 2 deepcycle marine and a modified starter motor
[04:06:50] <Valen> nah, starters have really really crap efficency
[04:07:06] <Valen> next time the missus and I do a walking holiday I'm making up some scooters (stand on kids type ones) that have a buttload of A123 batterys under the deck and some wheel motors to drive
[04:07:22] <bluntz_> using copper line terminating sequentialy from batt like a 2 speed
[04:07:33] <fenn> those little motors look good for power skates
[04:07:50] <Valen> the batteries would get unbalanced and you can drive the lower one into reverse
[04:08:01] <Valen> if your going to use DC, look at something like a victor to drive it
[04:08:47] <bluntz_> prolly heavier tho rite?
[04:09:07] <Valen> for the power probably
[04:09:11] <Valen> victor is a speed controller
[04:09:18] <bluntz_> 6.5 kw in the palm of your hand is wick3d
[04:09:31] <bluntz_> ahh k
[04:09:41] <Valen> http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V885.html
[04:09:49] <Valen> so you can control the power
[04:10:55] <tom3p> similar rc servo motors http://bit.ly/uF4Ld
[04:10:59] <bluntz_> yea alot cheaper than a zilla too
[04:11:10] <Valen> dear god, zillas are for cars man
[04:11:15] <bluntz_> hehe
[04:12:54] <bluntz_> needs a bimini top of pv cells
[04:14:18] <bluntz_> oh
[04:14:28] <Valen> lol
[04:14:58] <bluntz_> weedeater motor to charge batt increase range
[04:16:00] <bluntz_> its a joyrider recumbent trike
[04:16:07] <Valen> that thing should probably be able to do ~40 miles
[04:16:18] <Valen> if you take it easy
[04:16:22] <bluntz_> wood b sweet
[04:16:40] <bluntz_> as long as its not toheavy to pedal for her
[04:32:54] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[06:10:25] <tom3p> the wiki page for the MPG connected to a parport is slightly different than whats in the Integrators Manual.
[06:10:27] <tom3p> If the wiki page is reduced to 'please see the Integrators Manual" plus a ref to AndersWallin's MPG using the mesa card, then maintaining would be simpler. ( one source one edit )
[06:11:14] <awallin> please do copy/paste whatever is useful from my blog into the manual
[06:12:27] <tom3p> good idea, BigJohnT's been doing that, and the manual has the parport example, your mesa example will be popular.
[06:12:50] <tom3p> .. been writign the manual & editing the wiki
[06:13:18] <tom3p> this info is scattered and in many stages of 'correctness'
[06:26:42] <awallin> good. I haven't had time to work on the manuals lately. I'd like to do some cam-coding and also build a lathe when I have time.... gotta run, changing to winter tyres on the car :)
[06:36:17] <Jymmm> Hey me too! And by winter tires, I mean I'm going to have the tires armor all'ed =)
[08:24:08] <celeron55> how can i build emc without all the graphical UI's?
[09:27:29] <micges_work> celeron55: for run without X?
[09:30:49] <celeron55> yes
[09:31:16] <celeron55> or maybe enable only one of them
[09:32:48] <Valen> it already is "built"
[09:32:59] <Valen> just don't run them
[09:33:15] <Valen> or are you trying to compile it without them?
[09:33:18] <celeron55> i don't want to install tk, for example
[09:33:46] <Valen> probably part of the make config part of things that or it'll be flags to make
[09:33:51] <celeron55> the configure script seems to be quite restricted
[09:34:02] <Valen> take a look at say make menuconfig and see if that gives you any love
[09:34:57] <celeron55> what are you talking about?
[09:35:56] <Valen> many make systems have a config file that tells them what to compile
[09:36:02] <Valen> which bits of the source package
[09:36:19] <Valen> menuconfig is a handy way of ticking boxes to select which bits you want to compile
[09:36:32] <celeron55> i'm right now editing the whole build system because it seems to not have any options to do what i want
[09:36:37] <micges_work> celeron55: try ./configure --disable-python
[09:37:02] <Valen> ergo where you would normally type make to compile
[09:37:05] <celeron55> ...and now it seemed to build without tk
[09:37:06] <Valen> type make menuconfig
[09:37:15] <celeron55> Valen: lol, that doesn't work
[09:37:37] <micges_work> Valen: emc doesn't have menuconfig
[09:37:39] <Valen> does with alot of other bits and pices
[09:37:52] <Valen> was just a suggestion
[09:38:36] <Valen> menuconfig is just a front end for the standard config stuff
[09:38:45] <Valen> theres xconfig as well if your keen
[09:38:52] <micges_work> I know
[09:39:41] <micges_work> hi ysli
[10:22:42] <piasdom_> g'mornin all
[10:23:09] <Valen> zup
[10:24:03] <piasdom_> another day and you ?>
[10:27:06] <Valen> procrastination
[10:28:05] <piasdom_> i'm very good at that.....but once i get started, i can't stop till i finish :)
[10:48:34] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[11:02:08] <MattyMatt> final indecision time. is a TB6560 board worth the extra few quid over a TA8435H one, if I get 2A motors later on?
[11:05:16] <archivist> probably as it will be more reliable if not used to full current
[11:14:24] <MattyMatt> the datasheets aren't explicit on the front page, but it looks like the 6560 does 1/16 steps, but 8435 only does 1/8
[11:15:09] <archivist> I only ever use 1/2 step
[11:16:22] <MattyMatt> if I use this 10mm pitch ballscrew on X, I'll want that as fine as possible
[11:16:57] <MattyMatt> even full step would comply with my 0.1mm precision requirement tho
[11:17:28] <MattyMatt> if I wanted 300dpi I shoulda kept the belt drives :)
[11:17:44] <archivist> remember that parts of a step are not accurate at all
[11:17:54] <MattyMatt> yeah
[11:18:09] <MattyMatt> 1/2 is just as good as full step tho, right?
[11:18:20] <alex_joni> nope
[11:18:25] <alex_joni> lots better
[11:18:41] <archivist> accuracy no acceleration yes
[11:18:44] <alex_joni> it's not about accuracy.. accuracy wise you can always assume full step
[11:19:00] <alex_joni> the way the motors move is better the more microsteps you have
[11:19:13] <alex_joni> although more than 8 microsteps doesn't really cause much difference imo
[11:19:17] <MattyMatt> yeah, and quieter too I believe
[11:20:13] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[11:21:39] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[11:21:45] <jthornton_> that's why I like the Gecko 203v it starts out at 10 mico steps and buy the time it is at full speed it is at full steps
[11:31:15] <MattyMatt> it's at low medium speeds that the sound of 3 motors changing speeds seems to be most annoying. probably irrelevant compared to the spindle and hoover tho
[11:31:47] <MattyMatt> anyway the 3.5A board is on its way \o/
[11:33:35] <MattyMatt> that gives me 2 days to tweak the table for least friction. I'm sticking to my plan of tuning that before I start on the gantry
[11:38:51] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Square-Flange-Self-Lube-Bearing-SF12-UCF201-12mm-Bore_W0QQitemZ200322096650
[11:39:49] <MattyMatt> If I'd seen those before I bought roller skate bearings, I'd be tempted to go straight to acme thread
[11:41:30] <MattyMatt> they look the part for a heavy timber machine too
[11:42:50] <celeron55> btw, i'd say 1/2 step is fairly good in accuracy, smaller that is not
[11:42:59] <celeron55> +than
[11:43:27] <celeron55> hmm... or... well, i'm probably wrong 8)
[11:43:53] <MattyMatt> I doubt I'll notice the difference in wood
[11:44:14] <MattyMatt> mk2 will mill metal tho, by crikey
[11:44:51] <celeron55> of course 1/2 step is closer to halfway of the two steps next to it, compared to any of the two :P
[11:46:22] <MattyMatt> I'll probably just use the half steps to begin with, as my motors are blatently underpowered
[11:46:49] <MattyMatt> 45 degree fullstep, as it were
[11:48:34] <MattyMatt> I've found a good local engineering supply store. I gots to ask them if they stock acme thread
[11:49:32] <MattyMatt> local industry isn't dead yet
[12:12:57] <MattyMatt> I suppose the 8:1 difference in thread pitch between X & Y will be compensated by emc? each axis has its own scale?
[12:13:09] <archivist> yes
[12:13:12] <jthornton_> yes
[12:13:31] <MattyMatt> just checking :) fairly safe assumption I guessed
[12:13:49] <jthornton_> never assume
[12:14:56] <MattyMatt> I still subscribe to Empirical Engineering Monthly :)
[12:16:16] <MattyMatt> grandad's ghost just kicked me
[12:16:46] <MattyMatt> "measure twice, cut once, you grotty little toerag"
[12:16:59] <MattyMatt> he was never that rude when he was alive
[12:33:43] <MattyMatt> he wasn't a woodworker tho. metalworking is more like measure, cut, measure, cut, measure, file, measure, lap, measure
[12:34:34] <MattyMatt> and then do it all again in case it wasn't exactly 20 deg that day
[12:35:37] <MattyMatt> on the subject of my granddad, what is this tool of his called? http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/427/p1010042.jpg
[12:36:16] <MattyMatt> it's a browne and sharpe no 559, but they've reused that number since
[12:36:30] <archivist> ew /me wants
[12:36:58] <MattyMatt> and I want your surface table, if you have one :)
[12:37:19] <jthornton_> yea I finally got lamp to work
[12:37:23] <archivist> but...I want my surface table
[12:38:11] <archivist> MattyMatt, I think its a marking out tool for shafts
[12:39:43] <MattyMatt> the hole seems well finished, and the ends are, and I think the 'legs' are too
[12:40:31] <MattyMatt> so it would sit precisely on a surface table the way I've stood it
[12:41:20] <MattyMatt> should I spray it with WD40 before it goes back in its box? or wait until I get some proper machine oil?
[12:41:50] <Valen> I use lanox for that stuff
[12:41:57] <Valen> wd40 evaporates too fast
[12:41:58] <archivist> it does need protection, its in good contition at the moment
[12:43:48] <MattyMatt> I'll buy a small bottle of machine oil, for my leadscrews too
[12:44:35] <MattyMatt> the pad at the bottom of the box isn't totally dry
[12:48:38] <MattyMatt> it'll survive another week or two. he died in 92
[12:49:59] <MattyMatt> I lost most of his tools in a homelessness incident :( this one stayed at momma's
[12:51:46] <Valen> lanox is nice, it makes a layer that sticks
[12:52:28] <Valen> but its not thick
[12:52:36] <MattyMatt> oh, I expect to be using it before long :) (me is king of wishful thinking)
[12:52:39] <Valen> made by inox
[12:53:00] <Valen> its like a really good wd40, not a penitrating lube just really good for protecting stuff
[12:53:27] <Valen> not a long term thing, I spray it on the bed of the lathe when we aren't going to use it for a few days
[12:53:51] <MattyMatt> I'll look out for it
[12:54:14] <Valen> light blue tin
[12:54:46] <MattyMatt> if it exists in town, it'll be behind the counter of the engineering supplier I found
[12:55:24] <MattyMatt> I need some leadscrew oil anyway, so I'll just get a bottle of that probably
[12:55:53] <MattyMatt> 3-in-1 is better than allthread deserves tho >:)
[12:56:00] <Valen> lol
[12:56:46] <Valen> sump oil ftw
[12:57:02] <MattyMatt> used cooking oil
[12:57:09] <MattyMatt> free gumminess
[12:57:14] <Valen> rice bran oil, lower smoke point
[12:57:31] <Valen> higher smoke point rather
[12:57:53] <archivist> there are proper rust preventing coverings
[12:58:17] <archivist> Shell Ensis is one
[12:58:56] <Valen> whats it like?
[13:00:08] <archivist> A group I was with covered a beam engine bright work, 80-90% was still ok after 20 years
[13:01:07] <archivist> unheated building
[13:02:04] <archivist> failures wore poor application I reckon
[13:02:09] <archivist> were
[13:02:17] <Valen> is it a paint on thing?
[13:02:47] <archivist> yup, its a waxy oil
[13:03:01] <Valen> might put some of that on my car
[13:03:07] <Valen> probably smells less than fish oil ;->
[13:09:53] <MattyMatt> waxy would probably defeat the object of a measuring tool wouldn't it?
[13:10:06] <MattyMatt> except for long term storage, of course
[13:10:07] <archivist> you clean before use
[13:10:27] <MattyMatt> what with? petrol?
[13:11:02] <archivist> parrafin
[13:12:04] <MattyMatt> aha. I just wiped one of the surfaces with a soft linen rag soaked in WD40, and that was worrying
[13:12:46] <MattyMatt> better than leaving sawdust on it, I guessed
[13:14:25] <Valen> that should be ok
[13:14:59] <archivist> I saw some stuff at Fred Dibhah's that looked good but cannot remember the name
[13:15:05] <MattyMatt> I nearly used the hem of my Tshirt, like I do for lenses :)
[13:16:52] <MattyMatt> it's back in its box, awaiting shaftmaking duties
[13:17:54] <MattyMatt> I guess it had a felt pad at the top of the box too, when shipped
[13:19:50] <Valen> where would one get that ensis from archivist?
[13:20:22] <archivist> I think the society bought from Shell
[13:20:34] <archivist> or scrounged
[13:23:11] <MattyMatt> £1,055.00 for a 205L drum
[13:23:38] <Valen> $5 a liter no worries
[13:23:46] <Valen> i'll use it on robots all the time
[13:24:12] <Valen> ;->
[13:24:57] <MattyMatt> http://www.btls.co.uk/LMetal.htm
[13:25:36] <MattyMatt> 35 quid for 20L, that's cheaper than 3-in-1
[13:26:54] <Valen> sounds pretty good really
[13:27:06] <Valen> I wonder if you could put it into a (mechanical) spray bottle
[13:27:58] <MattyMatt> it doesn't say which thickness it is, just 'fluid'
[13:29:06] <MattyMatt> as long as it doesn't eat its way out of the bottle, it has gotta be worth a try
[13:29:40] <Valen> yaknow I wonder what the next lot of playgrounds will have in them
[13:29:51] <MattyMatt> worst that'll happen will be it'll spit out in bigger drops
[13:30:19] <Valen> they all have steam powered traction engines and steam rollers in them now, but what do we make now that would last long enough to go into a kiddies playground
[13:30:35] <Valen> (not that they arent all fenced off now so you cant do anything with em, bastards)
[13:31:20] <MattyMatt> playgrounds have gone very tame in the UK. the opportunities for "learning through death" are greatly diminished compared to my small years
[13:31:34] <Valen> its educational and evolutional
[13:31:50] <Valen> falling from great heights is a bad thing
[13:32:00] <Valen> good for the gene pool though
[13:36:39] <MattyMatt> all you need is rumours. I never saw anyone brained by a wooden swing seat, but there was a story circulating in the playground
[13:40:02] <MattyMatt> the maypole was best. 6 pairs of steel rings on chains hanging from a swivel on a 20ft pole. if a big kid joined in on that you got to practice your deathgrip
[13:41:11] <jthornton_> archivist I finally got past the password screen for phpmyadmin :)
[13:41:25] <archivist> bout time to :)
[13:42:04] <jthornton_> it says I have "No Privileges" under Create new database :(
[13:42:22] <archivist> then add a grant
[13:43:10] <archivist> use the mysql command line client
[13:43:36] <MattyMatt> you can do that from inside phpmyadmin, iirc
[13:44:24] <archivist> not is its not in as root
[13:44:30] <MattyMatt> it has been a long time. I'm sworn off php & sql. too many broken sites
[13:44:37] <tom3p> i think the photo is a kind of cylinder square. stand it upright on 'x' face,
[13:44:47] <tom3p> then one of the 4 vert edges can be brought up next to a vert surface,
[13:44:48] <tom3p> and you look for daylight.its easier to see than with a solid round.
[13:45:23] <MattyMatt> aha, that makes sense
[13:45:52] <tom3p> get a piece of chamois and wipe hand oil off if before storing
[13:46:00] <MattyMatt> although the cylidrical surfaces aren't finely finished
[13:46:17] <MattyMatt> I only touched the milled inner curves
[13:46:53] <tom3p> edges not finished nice?, then not a square.
[13:47:29] <MattyMatt> the edges have flats that are finished. they aren't readily visible in that pic
[13:48:53] <MattyMatt> the cylidrical surfaces are finished too :)
[13:48:55] <tom3p> well stand it up next to something really square, with a light behind and a white sheet of paper behind that, and maybe it can be used as a square
[13:49:04] <tom3p> looking for daylight
[13:49:26] <MattyMatt> so each edge of the X has 3 finished edges
[13:49:52] <tom3p> sounds right
[13:50:15] <MattyMatt> and I probably do need to wipe them. thanks for the tip
[13:51:43] <tom3p> if no chamois, use the 'grinder's chamois', wipe it on fat part of forearm ;) (human chamois, very little oil)
[13:52:23] <archivist> not to be done by humans with rusty fingers
[13:52:36] <MattyMatt> I've got a piece of soft linen. momma gets through her bedsheets on purpose to have a steady supply of quality rag
[13:53:00] <tom3p> not for guys with 'the touch' ( left finger prints on everything )
[13:56:14] <MattyMatt> I'm naturally low-static. dunno my oiliness status
[13:57:22] <archivist> its an acid that causes the worst finger marks
[13:57:28] <MattyMatt> I expect I'm sour tho
[13:57:31] <MattyMatt> yeah
[13:58:18] <archivist> for males its constant but females vary monthly
[13:58:54] <Jymmm> O_o
[14:00:08] <MattyMatt> I'll use barrier cream when I've got a proper machine shop setup
[14:00:57] <MattyMatt> it makes sense now we know how carcinogenic all these hydrocarbons are
[14:01:59] <MattyMatt> and I'll be working in various plastics & composites too
[14:03:15] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt checks prices of breathing gear
[14:05:16] <MattyMatt> bio washing powder is good handwash. leaves you tingling with fluorescent nails and an alkali skin
[14:06:27] <MattyMatt> cheap stuff with no perfume & conditioner of course
[14:08:47] <MattyMatt> would leadscrews prefer gearbox oil to slideway oil?
[14:10:06] <MattyMatt> ah I'm getting ahead of myself again
[14:11:27] <archivist> ballscrew has high pressure like a gear, acme has low pressure but sliding
[14:15:41] <Jymmm> archivist: In respect to acme.... whaaat!?
[14:16:01] <archivist> engage brain
[14:16:39] <MattyMatt> I can see that for single start, low pitch
[14:17:12] <archivist> balls contact on a single point
[14:17:34] <Jymmm> archivist: No, seriously... explain, because the comparison doesn't make a while lot of sense.
[14:17:53] <MattyMatt> so axle grease for ballscrews, 3-in-1 for acme. gotcha >:)
[14:18:25] <cradek> wesson for acme, crisco for ballscrews
[14:18:38] <Jymmm> There are like 68 balls, I'd think there would be more than a single point of contact.
[14:18:53] <archivist> Jymmm, its contact area and type
[14:19:04] <MattyMatt> I'm about 3 orders of magnitude in precision away from needing specialised lubes, methinks
[14:19:07] <archivist> 68 single points
[14:19:22] <Jymmm> cradek: They have food grade gear oil/grease =)
[14:19:58] <Jymmm> archivist: Ok, and what's the distinction of acme in your previous example?
[14:20:41] <Jymmm> archivist: (no, I'm not pulling your chain)
[14:20:44] <archivist> two flat contact areas so you get an oil film
[14:21:13] <Jymmm> archivist: where did you get two from?
[14:21:23] <archivist> screw,nut
[14:21:28] <Jymmm> assuming at least 5 threads are engaged
[14:21:46] <Jymmm> maybe 4
[14:21:49] <archivist> thread is a helix its one wrapped
[14:23:04] <Jymmm> archivist: I'm still not getting it
[14:23:20] <Jymmm> more contact area?
[14:23:27] <archivist> yes
[14:23:27] <celeron55> at least i get it
[14:24:04] <Jymmm> k
[14:25:51] <Jymmm> Thompson recommends something they sell for ballscrews, but I haven't been able to get any details about it to find an alternative.
[14:27:55] <Jymmm> finally got my CF2IDE adapter, can't wait to try it out
[14:33:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Heh.... http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30573
[14:34:16] <SWPadnos> yeah, I should trade in my Agilents for one of those
[14:34:37] <Jymmm> LOL, thought you might like that.
[14:34:47] <MattyMatt> that's a wee bit better than this single channel 10Mhz one I got (free)
[14:35:08] <SWPadnos> buy 3+ and save more!
[14:35:19] <archivist> Agilents/HP will always be better that chinese shi....
[14:35:30] <SWPadnos> really? :)
[14:35:31] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I wouldn't go that far.... DX is great for toys, but homey don't play that!
[14:36:07] <Jymmm> archivist: Tonka Scope beats em all
[14:36:28] <SWPadnos> I'm looking at buying a probe that costs more than that scope
[14:36:34] <SWPadnos> on eBay
[14:36:36] <Jymmm> for?
[14:36:40] <SWPadnos> current
[14:36:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Dude, have I got a deal for you!
[14:37:06] <Jymmm> 0.1ohm 100 Watt resistor
[14:37:15] <Jymmm> $25
[14:37:21] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt sells him a 1 ohm resistor first
[14:37:23] <SWPadnos> got those
[14:37:29] <MattyMatt> dammit beaten :)
[14:37:39] <SWPadnos> and maybe a differntial / high impedance probe
[14:38:53] <MattyMatt> I want an ammeter in the battery lead of my car. I'm surprised they aren't commonly available
[14:39:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: What are you getting yourself into? Do I ned to start collecting bail money?
[14:39:10] <SWPadnos> no, I should be set for that
[14:39:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Underground transportation outside the country?
[14:39:42] <cradek> MattyMatt: surely you can go to any auto parts store and get an old fashioned ammeter
[14:39:44] <SWPadnos> if I told you, I'd have to threaten to kill you
[14:40:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I've been doing that to you for years.
[14:40:09] <SWPadnos> MattyMatt, for that appliaction, a clamp meter is ideal
[14:40:17] <SWPadnos> the currents from a car battery are really quite high
[14:40:32] <MattyMatt> cradek, I suppose, but I'd like one in the battery connector, with a voltage output
[14:40:44] <cradek> you don't want it in the battery cable, you want it in the alternator output, right?
[14:40:58] <cradek> maybe I don't get what you're doing
[14:41:16] <MattyMatt> ideally one of each, but my batteries keep draining etc
[14:41:17] <archivist> a hall effect one should be easy enough to make
[14:41:56] <MattyMatt> aha, hadn't thought of that
[14:42:35] <archivist> its how some/most clamp meter sensors are made
[14:42:45] <SWPadnos> or a clamp, which will be less sensitive to moving around
[14:42:54] <SWPadnos> some use loops of wire
[14:42:56] <MattyMatt> hard to calibrate tho. something off the shelf that shows 200-0-200A as -2.0 to +2.0V would be dandy
[14:43:09] <SWPadnos> eBay, $75
[14:43:12] <SWPadnos> or so
[14:43:56] <MattyMatt> I'll look harder next time. but the next $75 is going on another new battery
[14:43:58] <cradek> amazing how fast a modern car runs down its battery when sitting - so many loads to keep alive
[14:44:20] <archivist> and teeny batteries they fit these days
[14:44:31] <MattyMatt> mine was fine until I fitted a new radio (with dvd player)
[14:44:59] <cradek> maybe it's wired wrong
[14:44:59] <Jymmm> cradek: Just some car alarms alone (w/o false alarms) can drain to the point you cant start the car
[14:45:08] <MattyMatt> tell a lie, I changed the radio because the battery flattened unexplainedly
[14:45:42] <MattyMatt> or maybe I left the lights on that time. long time ago now
[14:46:36] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: you need something like this... http://www.measureamps.com/p6456/amprobe_acd-16_pro_data-logging_clamp-on_multimeter_%281000a%29.php
[14:46:39] <MattyMatt> but anyway, I want to know the actual current at the battery, to eliminate wiring losses etc
[14:47:11] <MattyMatt> and I'll use 2 batteries when the computer is in the dash
[14:47:22] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: In a car wiring lose is useless. you just need to know the load drain. you can easily pull fuses till the load goes down and isolate the draw.
[14:48:14] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Unplug the alarm and see if the issue goes away
[14:48:22] <MattyMatt> alarm?
[14:49:00] <MrSunshine__> heh chemical metal to the resque with my leadscrews that i turned to small :P
[14:49:04] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Well, is sounds like you've been mocking around in your car wiring all kinds of things up. Have to suspect there's an alarm or stereo/amps too
[14:49:09] <MrSunshine__> just slab it on and re-turn them :)
[14:49:11] <MrSunshine__> voila :)
[14:49:14] <MattyMatt> it has been stolen 3 times :) nobody ever got it more than a mile :)
[14:49:14] <Jymmm> s/mocking/mucking/
[14:50:01] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: So, how much wiring in the car have you done?
[14:50:08] <MattyMatt> I changed the radio, that's all
[14:50:14] <Jymmm> no lights?
[14:50:33] <MattyMatt> one brakelight once, iirc
[14:50:42] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: What kind of car?
[14:50:49] <MattyMatt> 91 fiesta
[14:51:02] <Jymmm> for fiesta?
[14:51:04] <Jymmm> ford
[14:51:06] <MattyMatt> last one woyhout a cat
[14:51:27] <MattyMatt> ^without
[14:52:05] <MattyMatt> yeah UK ford. the US fiesta was a totally different car
[14:52:13] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Does that thing even have an alternator, or does it come with hampsters?
[14:52:37] <MattyMatt> the new ones are the same in US I think, now that small cars are acceptable
[14:53:12] <MattyMatt> gerbils. hamsters don't squeak this loud :)
[14:53:18] <Jymmm> lol
[14:54:07] <MattyMatt> ah yes I remember. I had to ditch the factory radio because the battery died because the alternator belt was slipping. fixed that
[14:55:24] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I had a battery replaced. They came out, replaced the batery, then had this neat tool that clamped on to the battery lead and the computer. and went thru a load test. was pretty cool. But a clamp n was all that was used and read down to mA's
[14:57:32] <MattyMatt> that amprobe looks nice, but overkill for me
[15:00:21] <Jymmm> it's a data logging one
[15:03:24] <MattyMatt> I want central logging of all parameters, to eventually make a self-aware car
[15:03:59] <MattyMatt> but bugger all that for now. I just want a working car. I'll make the robosapien self aware first :)
[15:05:54] <MattyMatt> I'm sure the cars on sale in 5 years will have more sensors than I could fit to mine
[15:07:50] <MattyMatt> mostly for engine management, which I'm not too concerned with, but they'lll be there
[15:13:02] <MattyMatt> posher cars have cameras in the bumpers already
[15:14:15] <MattyMatt> I want internal cameras and wifi most of all tho. I want to see who keeps smashing my dash and bending my doors
[15:15:20] <MattyMatt> I'll go and bend something of his next time
[15:21:45] <MattyMatt> telemetry. that's the word I've been trying to remember :)
[15:48:50] <tomp> measuring dc current that's pwm'd is expensive. the probes cost a lot and often are low freq anyway, beware of manufacturers claims, dont use anywhere near edge of spec.
[15:52:12] <MattyMatt> thermometer is the only indicator worthwhile in the driver/motor setup :)
[15:53:15] <MattyMatt> I only briefly considered inserting my multimeter in there
[15:53:16] <archivist> you intantaneous current for problem solving
[15:53:47] <archivist> the spikes are huge
[15:54:52] <MattyMatt> if there was a current limiting resistor in the circuit anyway, putting the volts across that on a scope could be useful I suppose
[15:56:04] <archivist> yes but that fails unless you have proper connections to the resistor
[15:56:29] <archivist> you can get 40 wire resistors for sensing
[15:56:32] <archivist> 4
[15:57:44] <MattyMatt> I'm playing it safe with my driver. power amplifiers is not my area of expertise
[15:58:28] <MattyMatt> only metric I'm concerned with is length of guarantee
[16:00:10] <MattyMatt> with 3.5A driver and 1A motors, the first thing to melt will always be the motor windings, I think
[16:01:09] <MattyMatt> or the psu. I'm cheaping out on that too :)
[16:09:28] <MattyMatt> I still can't understand why 2 motors in parallel on a chopper won't work
[16:10:42] <MattyMatt> ah maybe I can, if it uses feedback for sensing
[17:05:02] <skunkworks523> heh - I am supprised I have not been bit by this before
[17:05:13] <skunkworks523> ?int(39.564/13.188)
[17:05:15] <skunkworks523> 2
[17:06:14] <SWPadnos> what program are you using to get those wrong numbers?
[17:06:17] <skunkworks523> VBA
[17:06:23] <SWPadnos> oh, no wonder :)
[17:06:26] <skunkworks523> ;)
[17:06:52] <SWPadnos> I wonder what the actual representation of 39.564 or 13.188 is
[17:06:54] <archivist> its ish ..what do you expect
[17:07:01] <skunkworks523> This fixed it int(cdec(39.564)/(cdec(13.188))
[17:07:03] <SWPadnos> ie, one may be a little high or the other a little low
[17:07:20] <skunkworks523> must be 2.9999999999999999
[17:07:35] <skunkworks523> http://www.cpearson.com/excel/rounding.htm
[17:07:59] <skunkworks523> applies to access vba also
[17:10:13] <archivist> floats bite many people
[17:14:11] <Jymmm> Has anyone needed to replace the TPR valve on their hot water heater?
[17:14:21] <eric_unterhausen> yeah
[17:14:27] <eric_unterhausen> flooded my basement
[17:15:01] <Jymmm> Oh. Mine is dripping every couple of minutes. Not sure if it need to just be clenaed/flushed out, or replaced.
[17:15:09] <eric_unterhausen> I would replace
[17:15:25] <eric_unterhausen> you can pull the test lever, but that may not fix things
[17:15:34] <eric_unterhausen> they cost > $20
[17:15:43] <eric_unterhausen> sorry less than
[17:15:44] <Jymmm> $8 USD at home depot
[17:16:19] <Jymmm> Are they all 3/4" pipe? Mine looks like 1"
[17:16:36] <eric_unterhausen> I do think there are different sizes
[17:16:46] <eric_unterhausen> specifically lengths
[17:16:59] <Jymmm> Hmmmm, crap. I didn't want to remove it till I had a replacement in hand.
[17:18:34] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: How old was yours when you had the great flood?
[17:24:23] <eric_unterhausen> less than 10 years
[17:25:46] <eric_unterhausen> I decided my son needed to learn how to wash pots and pans, but the water never got warm
[17:25:47] <jthornton_> WEEE my lathe is here
[17:26:06] <cradek> wooo! photos!
[17:26:12] <archivist> pics, picc pics we demand pics
[17:26:19] <eric_unterhausen> if I hadn't done that, it would have _really_ flooded the basement because the sump pump was broke
[17:27:04] <eric_unterhausen> I always liked the pictures of Jon Elson's lathe and the forklift up to its axles in mud
[17:29:23] <eric_unterhausen> if jthornton_ is still reading this, there is something wrong with him
[17:29:31] <archivist> hehe
[17:30:12] <celeron55> :P
[17:31:26] <archivist> we can talk about him now and he will be to busy playing
[17:31:50] <eric_unterhausen> there used to be an IRC reader
[17:31:56] <eric_unterhausen> IRC to voice
[17:32:21] <eric_unterhausen> it would be ok if it could filter out the "entered the room" notices
[17:32:25] <skunkworks523> eric_unterhausen: what have you been up to?
[17:32:46] <eric_unterhausen> not as much as I should have been, that's for sure
[17:33:56] <celeron55> you can make an irc reader with some linux tools
[17:35:09] <celeron55> just pipe the logs through a some filter script and then to http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/
[17:36:01] <eric_unterhausen> would that run on my mill? :)
[17:36:25] <jt-plasma> it's still on the truck :)
[17:36:55] <archivist> get back out to drool over it
[17:37:09] <archivist> and dont forget your camera :)
[17:37:32] <eric_unterhausen> what kind of lathe?
[17:37:44] <jt-plasma> I just got the call from the dispatcher so I'm hooking the trailer ...
[17:37:55] <jt-plasma> to go get it
[17:38:01] <jt-plasma> bbl
[17:38:02] <Guest510> hello all; I was here a few days ago as guest756, I couldn't get the realtime modules to load and couldn't start emc
[17:38:20] <Guest510> had lots of suggestions here and I tried them all
[17:38:41] <Guest510> but none would work
[17:39:19] <Guest510> so I ended up removing emc2 and compiling it from scratch in simulator and it works now!
[17:41:02] <celeron55> well, that's not very surprising, as now it doesn't use the realtime stuff at all and isn't able to control your cnc machine
[17:41:46] <Guest510> well, I don't have the machine yet; I'm still saving money to make it and just wanted to start practicing with the software
[17:42:28] <celeron55> well, then no problem
[17:42:32] <Guest510> by the time I have the actual machine ready to run, I will probably just get an old cheap computer to dedicate to run the machine
[17:43:00] <Guest510> wich of the simulator gui's you recommend for a beginner?
[17:43:17] <archivist> axis is ok
[17:44:02] <celeron55> axis is the newest, looks best and has the most features... and takes the most resources 8)
[17:44:34] <Guest510> ok
[17:46:32] <Guest510> thanks to everyone that tried to help me the other day, celeron55 is the only name I recognize today
[18:24:59] <skunkworks523> still no pictures of jthornton_ lathe..... ;)
[18:26:58] <eric_unterhausen> he's still chasing the truck
[18:28:04] <eric_unterhausen> if you read what he actually said above, it was on a truck headed in his direction -- according to a rumor
[18:28:33] <skunkworks523> oh - I usually only read what I want to hear...
[18:28:35] <skunkworks523> ;)
[18:29:01] <eric_unterhausen> archivist has a computer in his attic?
[18:29:24] <skunkworks523> doesn't everyone? I use it to keep track of the bats.
[18:29:41] <eric_unterhausen> my attic sadly has very weak trusses
[18:30:01] <skunkworks523> I actually don't know what is in my attic. afraid to look...
[18:30:15] <eric_unterhausen> I think you'd know if you had bats
[18:32:57] <skunkworks523> oh - we do.
[18:33:00] <skunkworks523> :)
[18:33:15] <skunkworks523> I just don't know if they are all the way into the attic
[18:33:29] <eric_unterhausen> probably
[18:33:34] <eric_unterhausen> I would try to get rid of them
[18:33:35] <skunkworks523> our house is the neighborhood bat house.
[18:35:40] <tom4> tom4 is now known as tom3p
[18:41:18] <PCW> motioncontrol: we hacked the ispi comp into working with the 7i64. Do you know who wrote it originally? maybe they would like a working versiion...
[19:00:31] <archivist_attic> have you upgraded it yet JT-Work ?
[19:02:52] <JT-Work> dev?
[19:03:13] <archivist_attic> the new lathe
[19:04:40] <JT-Work> no, waiting on the truck to show up... he called from the other side of the state about 5 hours ago
[19:04:48] <JT-Work> he should be close
[19:05:09] <archivist_attic> aw
[19:05:21] <archivist_attic> the waiting.....
[19:15:25] <tom4> this is cool , the public library always had poor inet. but now its working great. they never had wifi before, just locked down wired stations that wouldnt let you onto freshmeat cause it sounded funny.
[19:21:05] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[19:45:45] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[19:50:42] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[19:51:22] <eric_unterhausen> Is there a good way to test mesa boards without the led diagnostic boards?
[19:51:56] <eric_unterhausen> I was thinking about some of the pyvcp panels, haven't tried them yet though
[19:55:25] <mozmck_work> there's a mesa test pyvcp panel I saw somewhere on the wiki I think...
[19:57:18] <alex_joni> pncconf has a test panel
[19:57:21] <JT-Work> pncconf has a mesa test panel
[19:57:29] <JT-Work> LOL
[19:57:30] <alex_joni> ha
[19:57:41] <skunkworks523> wait - aww I wanted to post that also..'
[19:58:31] <eric_unterhausen> skunkworks523: you mean about the test panel that comes with pnc?
[20:00:20] <skunkworks523> I think the pncconf has a mesa test panel
[20:00:40] <alex_joni> you think?
[20:00:59] <skunkworks523> ;)
[20:02:17] <PCW> Simple question on components:
[20:02:19] <PCW> How is the instance #available to the component
[20:02:58] <alex_joni> if I understand what you're asking, then it should be available
[20:03:05] <alex_joni> each instance is a separate entity
[20:03:21] <alex_joni> shouldn't*
[20:03:48] <alex_joni> but there are components and components..
[20:04:06] <PCW> I wanted to change address based on the instance number
[20:04:25] <alex_joni> for a driver?
[20:04:39] <alex_joni> I'm asking because there are more ways to get instances
[20:04:49] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[20:04:56] <alex_joni> some componets use count=nr. to know how many instances to spawn
[20:05:10] <alex_joni> others use cfg="addr1, addr2, addr3,.."
[20:05:19] <SWPadnos> mesa autodetects
[20:05:28] <alex_joni> for the hm2 driver it's a bit more complicated, as it gets called from autodetection
[20:05:32] <SWPadnos> the addresses anyway
[20:05:33] <PCW> well it should be in the driver but this is a temporary hack to allow a component to drive a SPI device
[20:05:47] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[20:06:13] <SWPadnos> the driver would be told how many SPI devices are attached, wouldn't it?
[20:06:23] <SWPadnos> per SPI channel
[20:06:31] <PCW> (via the raw-read- raw-write capabilities of hm2)
[20:06:44] <SWPadnos> oh
[20:09:25] <PCW> Just wanted our hacky component to work for multiple SPI channels
[20:10:42] <PCW> (each of which requiring different register addresses)
[20:13:35] <PCW> but the real solution is for HM2 to support SPI. I still think the chip specific massaging belongs in a comp
[20:13:36] <PCW> the driver just doing the requested SPI reads and writes
[20:16:28] <mozmck_work> what kind of spi devices do you drive?
[20:19:10] <PCW> This current hack is for the 7I64
[20:19:32] <PCW> (24 isolated in 24 isolated out)
[20:20:02] <mozmck_work> so there are spi devices attached to the 7I64?
[20:20:23] <PCW> (the 7I64 is a SPI device)
[20:20:58] <mozmck_work> oh, and you need to talk to it through another card with spi?
[20:21:42] <PCW> Yes a FPGA card with SPI hardware (5I20 in this case)
[20:21:44] <PCW> We also want to support the 7I65 with HM2 (8 axis analog servo interface)
[20:22:20] <PCW> (and perhaps the Granite devices amps)
[20:23:34] <mozmck_work> I see, so what you want is an spi_read and write in the hm2 driver. I've seen spi mentioned several times but didn't know what it was for.
[20:26:42] <PCW> Yes, I still think a comp will be needed to keep the chip specific stuff out of the driver but the driver needs to provide the basic
[20:26:44] <PCW> services (resource location, read,write, control, I/O pin setup)
[20:47:51] <celeron55> hmm... wtf
[20:51:19] <celeron55> i compiled a kernel 2.6.23 with the realtime patch, rtai 3.7 and emc 2.4.0, and now when i run emc, after it says "RTAI[usi]: enabled", it starts to use the hard disk continuously and halts pretty much everything
[20:51:55] <celeron55> it's a 133MHz pentium MMX with 48Mt of RAM
[20:53:35] <celeron55> i can't stop the program, i can just change vt's with alt+fN (i run it in text mode)
[20:54:13] <micges> log in in another terminal an type 'top' to see what happens
[20:54:18] <celeron55> can't
[20:54:33] <celeron55> can't type anything
[20:54:57] <celeron55> and if top is already open, it's pretty much completely stopped at that point
[20:55:07] <skunkworks523> 133mhz pentium? that seems very very underpowered...
[20:55:22] <celeron55> should be enough
[20:55:40] <celeron55> actually, i can type at the login prompt, the characters appear veeeeery slowly
[20:55:53] <celeron55> but no hope in logging in, or opening a program
[20:55:58] <skunkworks523> how much menory?
[20:56:01] <archivist_attic> heh not enough ram and its in terminal swap
[20:56:05] <skunkworks523> 48mb?
[20:56:11] <celeron55> seems like the realtime stuff take all the resources
[20:56:30] <micges> yep I think so
[20:56:33] <celeron55> how can they take 48M
[20:57:09] <celeron55> how can't 48 megs of RAM be not enough to control a CNC machine in text mode linux? lol?
[20:57:51] <PCW> 48M is probably hopeless for a modern linux not setup for a small system
[20:58:00] <mozmck_work> heh, it seems these days it takes 128 MB to say "Hello world!"
[20:58:17] <celeron55> i can even run firefox on this thing
[20:58:26] <celeron55> well, it's a pain but i CAN!
[20:58:29] <mikegg> hey guys
[20:58:31] <mikegg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Db1gZhwGs
[20:58:32] <celeron55> if i wanted to
[20:58:35] <mikegg> am I doin it right?
[20:58:41] <archivist_attic> firefox will soon gobble that 48meg
[20:59:02] <celeron55> it sure does
[20:59:06] <celeron55> but hey, what does emc and rtai use the 48 megs for?
[20:59:08] <micges> celeron55: is it original ubuntu distro you run?
[20:59:12] <celeron55> i can't think of anything reasonable
[20:59:24] <celeron55> it's debian
[20:59:42] <celeron55> i built a version of emc with none of that X bloat
[21:00:02] <skunkworks523> I ran dapper on 400mhz pentium II - it worked 'ok'
[21:00:20] <celeron55> but this seems-to-be piece of bloated... something doesn't still work!
[21:00:29] <skunkworks523> that was with probably 256mb ram atleast - knowing me it was probably 512
[21:00:51] <celeron55> i have run emc on a machine with 128 megs of ram
[21:01:02] <celeron55> with axis
[21:01:08] <celeron55> it's a bit on the slow side 8)
[21:01:14] <skunkworks523> yes
[21:01:54] <celeron55> are there any emc developers in here?
[21:02:07] <celeron55> i'd like to hear if there's something i could do to make this work
[21:02:21] <celeron55> there's pretty much no way i can stuff more ram into this old thing
[21:02:36] <micges> get NEWER thing
[21:02:47] <celeron55> no, it wouldn't be as fun
[21:02:53] <celeron55> i already have a newer thing
[21:03:11] <mozmck_work> there are numbers of things you can do to par down the linux kernel, which I would think is part of the problem.
[21:03:17] <micges> This mean you have a lot of time ;)
[21:03:58] <celeron55> umm... you think the kernel is the problem?
[21:04:12] <celeron55> i'm pretty sure it's not
[21:04:51] <mozmck_work> http://elinux.org/Linux_Tiny
[21:05:11] <celeron55> hey, the linux kernel takes maybe a few hundred k's
[21:05:19] <celeron55> that's not the problem
[21:05:56] <micges> celeron55: do you know this^^ ?
[21:06:07] <micges> or you assume this
[21:08:13] <mozmck_work> It may be part of the problem anyhow, I don't know what you can do for the emc side. If your base period is too fast it would slow it down like that.
[21:10:13] <celeron55> i wonder what scripts/realtime does even actually start
[21:12:08] <micges> celeron55: did you run emc and pc hang or you run relatime start and pc hang?
[21:12:22] <celeron55> running emc runs realtime start
[21:12:23] <celeron55> which hangs
[21:12:40] <celeron55> realtime start seems to only load some modules
[21:13:57] <micges> I did some checks and (probably) emc + realtime + hal >35 MB
[21:14:10] <micges> but it may VERY vary
[21:14:23] <celeron55> check what realtime+hal takes
[21:17:34] <skunkworks523> celeron55: what config are you trying to run?
[21:19:18] <celeron55> nothing
[21:19:30] <mozmck_work> micges: that does seem like a lot of memory
[21:20:21] <celeron55> it will get to the eat-all-resources mode just when i only run scripts/realtime start
[21:20:44] <micges> mozmck_work: it was quick check so it may be all wrong
[21:23:49] <mozmck_work> celeron55: maybe some rtai/kernel settings are not right for your processor? I think that cpu does not have a TSC which I believe rtai needs (or maybe just does better with)
[21:25:19] <celeron55> TSC? hmm... i guess the amd k6 -machine doesn't have it either, and it works straight with the prebuilt ubuntu version
[21:26:29] <celeron55> now i loaded all the rtai modules by hand, no problem as far
[21:26:37] <celeron55> now the two emc ones
[21:27:22] <celeron55> umm... now i loaded them all
[21:27:27] <celeron55> and no problem
[21:28:02] <mozmck_work> see what the realtime start script does
[21:28:27] <celeron55> i looked at it already, it loads some modules, and i just loaded them by hand with no problems
[21:29:21] <celeron55> one of them (can't remember which one) caused some high hdd usage for a while but it stopped after a few seconds
[21:36:07] <celeron55> okay, now i got emc running
[21:36:57] <mozmck_work> neat! I wonder what the problem was before?
[21:37:58] <celeron55> my best guess as of now is that one of the realtime modules needs to be given a bit of time to load before continuing to load more of them
[21:38:44] <mozmck_work> maybe so. some folks are working on getting emc and rtai ported to the beagle board - they may run into similar issues.
[21:39:08] <celeron55> beagle is quite fast compared to this
[21:39:36] <mozmck_work> oh. does it have as much memory?
[21:40:55] <celeron55> seems to have 128 or 256M, depending on version
[21:41:26] <celeron55> so not very low-end. a bit, though
[21:42:53] <JT-Work> no lathe till tomorrow the truck is running late...
[21:43:06] <JT-Work> back to the house to take care of sick one
[21:44:22] <celeron55> the module needing some time after loading might be rtai_sched.ko
[21:50:45] <celeron55> (oops)
[22:05:20] <celeron55> strange, now it works nicely without any hacks
[22:06:35] <celeron55> except the fact that keystick is awfully buggy
[22:07:31] <celeron55> it doesn't crash but neither does it keep the stuff on the screen nicely
[22:09:03] <celeron55> might work better on a 80x25 terminal but who uses that when you can use a full 800x600px framebuffer 8)
[22:11:53] <oPless> you can get a reasonably fat kernel in 1Mb ... with lzma compression :)
[22:12:19] <celeron55> i have a quite minimal one... tried to remove everything i don't need
[22:12:27] <oPless> * oPless has a handful of bifferboards
[22:12:40] <celeron55> to the point it didn't even boot, and then made it boot again
[22:13:01] <oPless> 32Mb ram i486sx clone ... 1Mb flash
[22:13:01] <celeron55> the way to make a small enough kernel (tm)
[22:13:29] <oPless> just enough to boot from usb, and everything else as modules
[22:16:06] <celeron55> an ide->cf-adapter and a 2GB cf card would be nice for this
[22:16:16] <celeron55> doesn't have any fans
[22:23:41] <celeron55> hmm, does an old laptop boot from a pcmcia->cf adapter?
[22:44:25] <cradek> celeron55: no, but ide->cf yes
[22:49:47] <MattyMatt> celeron55 depends on the bios
[22:50:26] <celeron55> at least there's no config option in the boot settings for pcmcia
[22:50:42] <MattyMatt> pcmcia is an intermediate form between CF and IDE, it was designed for booting
[22:51:11] <MattyMatt> is that with one plugged in?
[22:51:17] <celeron55> no
[22:51:20] <celeron55> i don't have one :P
[22:52:19] <MattyMatt> as cradek said tho, on ide it will boot. it won't know it's not a hdd
[22:52:28] <celeron55> i know that
[22:52:49] <cradek> I have two laptops like that, slow but quiet and easy on batteries
[22:52:59] <MattyMatt> I saw a fast 32GB ide ssd yesterday
[22:53:27] <celeron55> speed isn't an issue, as it's the 133MHz 48Mt one
[22:53:30] <MattyMatt> 60MB/s fast anyway, but that's probably as fast as an old lappy can handle
[22:53:44] <celeron55> would be interesting to make it not have any moving parts
[22:54:24] <MattyMatt> a touch ironic in a machine tool? :)
[22:55:05] <celeron55> well, it'd last to the end of the world then
[22:55:40] <MattyMatt> put the self lube in cron.daily
[22:55:44] <celeron55> i love this thing because it will take any size of hdd for example... the bios just ignores the part going over 8GB
[22:56:01] <celeron55> my other old laptop's bios will jam if you give it bigger than 6GB
[22:56:17] <celeron55> or, well, 6 is small enough, 40 is too big
[22:56:41] <MattyMatt> 486 bios would be easy to disassemble
[22:57:17] <celeron55> the bad sides are that it's cdrom drive can't read any cd's any more and same for the floppy drive
[22:57:22] <celeron55> and it doesn't have usb
[22:57:26] <celeron55> or ethernet
[22:57:42] <celeron55> well, the port replicator has but it's a strange unsupported chipset
[22:57:55] <cradek> heh, I've got some parport ethernet dongles somewhere...
[22:58:04] <MattyMatt> I got a 2 port usb2.0 for my win98 lappy, but it doesn't know what a usb drive is
[22:58:05] <celeron55> do they work under linux? :P
[22:58:43] <MattyMatt> needs 98SE
[22:58:53] <celeron55> i guess i could get a pcmcia usb card for it if i get the ide->cf adapter
[22:58:53] <MattyMatt> ^mine does
[22:59:41] <MattyMatt> cheap as chips and I'm gonna steal it for my thinkpad because that's only usb 1.0
[22:59:44] <celeron55> i had to install debian and wireless-tools to the hdd on an another laptop so i could continue with using a pcmcia wlan card
[22:59:56] <celeron55> i have a pcmcia lan card too but i guess it's broken or something
[23:01:45] <MattyMatt> I sank about 100gbp into dead thinkpads on ebay until I had a whole one
[23:02:34] <MattyMatt> I hoped for 3 good ones from the pile, so I could sell 2
[23:03:40] <andypugh> I wish days contained more hours.
[23:04:12] <MattyMatt> T30s in this nick fetch 160, so I could still cash in, but I want to keep it
[23:05:18] <andypugh> You might need to translate those first 6 words into the other sort of english :-)
[23:05:51] <MattyMatt> they've seen The Sweeney
[23:06:45] <MattyMatt> 51st State. the 'nightclub' is the old warehouse next to where we parked the U Boat
[23:07:17] <andypugh> You have a U-boat?
[23:07:24] <MattyMatt> U Boat was cut up and moved, and the building is flats now
[23:07:46] <MattyMatt> it's in Birkenhead somewhere know. they've reassembled it
[23:07:51] <MattyMatt> ^now
[23:08:16] <Valen> damn thats gonna suck
[23:08:30] <MattyMatt> it's only a mile or so away :)
[23:08:37] <Valen> gonna come stumbling out of the club "I swear guys i parked it right here"
[23:09:07] <MattyMatt> like my car, the 3 times it's been stolen
[23:09:55] <MattyMatt> first time he bent 2 doors, smashed a window, smashed the dash, and got it ten yards
[23:10:52] <celeron55> lol, i have sound on the laptop now
[23:11:35] <celeron55> takes 32% CPU to play 112kbps ogg
[23:11:53] <MattyMatt> that's a win. is RTAI running?
[23:12:00] <celeron55> yep, the realtime kernel
[23:12:18] <celeron55> i have yet to see what kind of latencies this will give
[23:12:22] <celeron55> with sound
[23:12:51] <celeron55> it's an ES1688 on the ISA bus
[23:12:52] <MattyMatt> if ogg is RTAI aware it could be minimal. doubt it tho
[23:12:55] <andypugh> Presumably sound cards are hardware realtime?
[23:13:21] <andypugh> Ogg is just a codec, it knows nothing
[23:13:38] <MattyMatt> yeah you'd want the real time scheduler pumping buffers to the chip
[23:14:00] <MattyMatt> so ALSA
[23:14:51] <celeron55> i guess the driver will try to use DMA to transfer big chuncks of data to the card, which is bad
[23:15:01] <MattyMatt> smaller buffers = lower latency but more cpu
[23:15:36] <celeron55> btw, i just got rtai to the resource-eating-mode again
[23:16:09] <celeron55> by just running /usr/realtime/testsuite/kern/latency/run
[23:16:56] <gene> Hi Guys, can I get some help with a g2 move?
[23:17:11] <andypugh> Sprockets?
[23:17:16] <gene> Yup
[23:17:25] <MattyMatt> in python still?
[23:17:30] <celeron55> the laptop has a hardware suspend-to-ram function, which is totally OS-independent
[23:17:33] <gene> nope, gcode
[23:17:48] <andypugh> OK, I have used G3 once, that's the same, right/
[23:18:44] <andypugh> What is the question>
[23:19:03] <andypugh> There is a section in the Wiki which I found almost helpful.
[23:20:44] <celeron55> max latency of 44us, 10us average
[23:21:06] <andypugh> That's not great, is it?
[23:21:12] <celeron55> good enough
[23:21:15] <gene> I need to terminate the thing at less than a full circle
[23:22:03] <gene> For that I need to spec the x, but that seems to be arc endpoint errors
[23:22:13] <andypugh> Start point, end point, centre should work
[23:22:37] <celeron55> considering the machine has a 7.5us clock cycle
[23:22:42] <andypugh> Start, end, radius is deprecated but easier to make work, I found
[23:23:08] <celeron55> at 133MHz
[23:23:09] <andypugh> celeron55: What is it? Built by Babbage?
[23:23:33] <gene> I'm using I,J and gettiung full circle with the start and stop where its at, taint what I want
[23:23:34] <celeron55> um?
[23:24:16] <andypugh> Are you putting in an X and Y as well as the I K
[23:24:21] <andypugh> (IJ)
[23:24:34] <gene> No, just x, do I need y too?
[23:24:47] <SWPadnos> are you trying to make half circles?
[23:24:51] <SWPadnos> exactly half
[23:24:53] <andypugh> Yes, I think so. Otherwise it will guess the current Y
[23:25:02] <gene> And its I, J, not K
[23:25:16] <SWPadnos> he's a lathe guy :)
[23:25:18] <andypugh> Aye, I hit the wrong key
[23:25:28] <andypugh> I break a lot of bits that way
[23:25:41] <gene> Closer to 90 degrees might save damaging the adjacent tooth
[23:26:15] <andypugh> Are you doing the teeth by coordinate rotation, or explicitly using geometry?
[23:28:08] <gene> I am doing the tooth, or attempting to, in the same format as the buyblueprint article shows for a single gullet, repeat as needed
[23:28:14] <andypugh> I confess I find myself quite fancying writing a parametric G-code program for sprockets.
[23:28:47] <andypugh> X, Y, C or pure X,Y?
[23:28:49] <gene> The table is rotating by the required angle to bring the next gullet into position.
[23:29:14] <gene> X,Y,C
[23:29:25] <gene> and Z of course
[23:29:42] <andypugh> Ah, OK. I suspect that X,Y,Z might turn out to be easier.
[23:30:15] <andypugh> Though fixed Y and doing arcs in X,C sounds like fun....
[23:30:27] <gene> Let me comment the problem starter out, and post the code and some screenshots on my web page. Back in a short
[23:30:45] <gene> Yeah, that would be, lots of math fun.
[23:31:04] <celeron55> hah, it seems that i have to load the rtai modules before i bring my wlan adapter up
[23:31:14] <SWPadnos> you keep using that word - I do not think it means what you think it means
[23:31:15] <celeron55> well, good to know
[23:32:11] <andypugh> SWPadnos: Inconceivable!
[23:32:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You know what I mean
[23:32:39] <SWPadnos> isn't that "incontheevable" :)
[23:33:44] <gene> Nother dumb q, can I use either G41 or G42 to make the back trace show the actual line bing cut?
[23:33:51] <Valen> oooh look at me i'm creating randomness
[23:34:03] <Valen> go keygen thingie go
[23:34:14] <gene> s/bing/being/g
[23:34:54] <Valen> you want it to show the edge or the center of the cutter?
[23:35:08] <SWPadnos> you could always try using G41/G42 when cutting
[23:35:33] <SWPadnos> in which case you turn that off (use conditional block delete) when you want to see the cut edge in the preview
[23:35:37] <Valen> I wish emc supported G15, so we could face things off with spirals
[23:35:41] <andypugh> FWIW, were I making sprockets I would be using G41/42
[23:37:48] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[23:38:39] <gene> I want the preview to show the edge being cut
[23:38:49] <gene> and I'm dig cutting
[23:39:19] <SWPadnos> there is no way to get the preview to show the edge of the tool, it always shows the controlled point (which is expected to be the center of the tool)
[23:39:19] <gene> so that would be g41?
[23:39:33] <gene> Gahh....
[23:39:50] <SWPadnos> is "dig cutting" climb or conventional?
[23:40:03] <SWPadnos> (ie, pull along the work or push into it)
[23:40:18] <gene> so forget that idea then, I'm doing tool radius comp in my math already, conventional, not climb\
[23:40:30] <SWPadnos> ok
[23:40:33] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[23:40:59] <celeron55> hmm, pressing the hardware volume buttons (fn+up/down) make big latencies
[23:41:40] <celeron55> same for display contrast etc
[23:41:43] <andypugh> My dodge was to use G41 and tell it the tool was zero diameter to get a preview
[23:41:52] <gene> You can see what I've got so far at http://gene.homelinux.net:85/gene/emc> look for *procket*
[23:42:22] <SWPadnos> celeron55, those are probably ACPI-controlled buttons, which you will not be able to do anything about latency-wise
[23:43:28] <celeron55> this laptop has never heard of acpi
[23:43:37] <gene> Humm, that might work, Andy, thanks
[23:43:52] <SWPadnos> ah, ok - so those full circles should just be the 70-80 degrees that's "inside" of the rectangular cutouts
[23:43:54] <celeron55> and yes, you can do nothing to them
[23:45:01] <SWPadnos> ACPI came out in 1996 - there may have been something similar, but not standardized, before then
[23:45:23] <celeron55> well, they go somewhere through the hardware anyway
[23:45:32] <celeron55> blocking emc's precious cpu access!
[23:45:36] <SWPadnos> right
[23:46:29] <gene> Yes. and what I want to do now is start another cut at "pitch_diameter", that is chain link length from either "-bit_radii" or "bit_radii", pointed at the bottom of the next tooth gullet, but stopped at the major diameter
[23:46:35] <celeron55> have to remember not to change brightness or volume when driving somethning :P
[23:46:51] <celeron55> ...or connect an external keyboard which doesn't have the buttons
[23:47:01] <gene> before it gets there.
[23:47:31] <Valen> they probably talk to bios stuff
[23:47:46] <Valen> esp if they are changing screen stuff
[23:48:44] <gene> and because the table isn't turning, the anchor point of the far end of the arc will be a few thou inside (left) of the y line.
[23:49:53] <gene> And I can never remember if that slight reduction is a cos, tan, or sin function....
[23:50:01] <celeron55> also toggling the lid switch makes big delays (which isn't surprising)
[23:50:18] <andypugh> If it is small, it's generally a sin
[23:50:34] <gene> Ok, thanks
[23:51:19] <andypugh> However, it might help to think of your sprocket as a polygon rather than a circle.
[23:51:30] <gene> 25 degrees equivalent table motion translated to the X position. Plus or minus.
[23:51:44] <gene> Polygon? 15 sided?
[23:51:58] <andypugh> Exactly
[23:53:03] <gene> Ok teacher, I'm listening, and have you looked at it yet?
[23:53:26] <andypugh> Not at the G-code, no.
[23:54:22] <gene> I'm having trouble believing a sine wave repeated at pitch length intervals as the table turns would be the right profile though.
[23:54:35] <gene> Its there too.
[23:55:12] <andypugh> No. There is a function relating radius to angle, but I have no idea how you would program that in G-Code
[23:55:51] <gene> It will take a ferw minutes to run because it drills 4 holes in the sprocket web, then moves the machine out of the way so screws
[23:55:53] <andypugh> Are you determined to use the rotary table?
[23:56:11] <gene> can be installed to hold it in position for the rest of the program.
[23:56:36] <andypugh> Cunning.
[23:57:15] <gene> Seemed like the best way to do step & repeats, carve one tooth, advance the table till its done.
[23:57:31] <andypugh> (Hmm, do you have a spindle encoder? EMC could drive the screws with a G33...)
[23:58:20] <gene> No spindle encoder, yet....
[23:59:01] <gene> that head/spindle is a bitch to hang stuff on.