#emc | Logs for 2009-11-03

[01:08:18] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:47:55] <tom3p> how do i check emc version on a run-in-place?
[01:47:58] <tom3p> i just did git pull --rebase , and python ->import emc->print emc.version reports 2.4.0~pre , console that emc is run from reports 2.4.0~pre
[01:48:38] <tom3p> i rna git pull --rebase from the directory that gave me those reports
[02:37:19] <MattyMatt> waah. I had just resolved myself to buy a controller board, and then I saw I can buy a whole tube of chips from digikey for the same price
[03:04:27] <mozmck> aha! I have latency-test running on ubuntu 9.10 now!
[03:04:48] <tom3p> 12$ dual parport pci cards using netmos 9815 at newegg Item#:N82E16815104231
[03:06:51] <MattyMatt> newegg don't ship internationally, unfortunately
[03:08:52] <mozmck> now emc2! it works! Ubuntu 9.10 with realtime...
[03:10:35] <SWPadnos> yY!
[03:10:36] <SWPadnos> UH
[03:10:39] <SWPadnos> yay!
[03:10:51] <SWPadnos> what kernel/RTAI version?
[03:11:27] <mozmck> I'm actually using the ubuntu kernel sources 2.6.31 that I patched with the cvs vulcano rtai
[03:11:56] <mozmck> I had a rejection on one file that I fixed by hand and it all worked after that
[03:11:56] <SWPadnos> oh - did they have a patch for 2.6.31, or did you have to mess around with it?
[03:12:01] <SWPadnos> cool
[03:12:25] <mozmck> no they had a patch for 2.6.31, but the ubuntu patches made the aforementioned rejection
[03:12:26] <SWPadnos> hmmm. with the Ubuntu kernel rather than vanilla?
[03:12:30] <SWPadnos> right
[03:12:37] <mozmck> yep
[03:12:47] <tom3p> newegg charges 3$ usps for 1 card but 8.13 ups for 2, better to make 2 purchases
[03:13:17] <mozmck> looks like my latency is around 8us without using isolcpus on an amd 5800+
[03:13:26] <MattyMatt> postcard rate. stick a stamp to the card :)
[03:13:34] <tom3p> yeh
[03:14:49] <MattyMatt> that would backfire here, because the mailmen are on strike, but not the parcels
[03:15:09] <MattyMatt> still no sign of my bleeding motors yet tho
[03:16:23] <tom3p> SWPadnos: i wanted to update emc to 2.3.4
[03:16:28] <tom3p>  i did git pull --rebase then ./cfg....
[03:16:29] <tom3p> yet the terminal that runs it still says 2.4.0~pre
[03:16:51] <SWPadnos> did you checkout whatever the 2.3 branch is called?
[03:17:14] <tom3p> my original git?
[03:17:20] <SWPadnos> no
[03:17:41] <SWPadnos> I don't know exactly what --rebase does, but I gather it has something to do with merging different branches
[03:17:56] <SWPadnos> in your local directory, you need to check out whichever version you want to use
[03:18:07] <tom3p> god the docs seem to say --rebase is the way to stay current
[03:18:15] <SWPadnos> git checkout v2.3_branch (or whatever it's called)
[03:18:26] <tom3p> thx will try that
[03:18:27] <SWPadnos> yes, you now have the current state of the entire repository, including all versions
[03:18:43] <SWPadnos> so you need to tell git which version to make "visible"
[03:19:16] <MattyMatt> is rtai.org supposed to have a self-signed certificate?
[03:19:35] <tom3p> SWPadnos: huh? do i still checkout v2.3_branch?
[03:19:38] <SWPadnos> they've had weird certificate annoyances as long as I can remember
[03:19:48] <SWPadnos> I don't know what it's called, but yes, you do
[03:19:57] <SWPadnos> with git, checkout is a local operation
[03:20:25] <SWPadnos> you have the entire history in the git checkout
[03:20:35] <tom3p> ok, im searching for the identifier for the new release ( that i already have on my local system )
[03:20:58] <SWPadnos> there's a way to track a certain tree as well, but I don't know how to do it
[03:21:15] <SWPadnos> I haven't messed with git much - haven't had much time for EMC since the switch
[03:28:19] <tom3p> git checkout RELEASE_2_3_4 error: pathspec 'src/RELEASE_2_3_4' did not match any file(s) known to git. git add RELEASE_2_3_4 fatal: pathspec 'src/RELEASE_2_3_4' did not match any files
[03:28:50] <SWPadnos> don't add
[03:29:02] <tom3p> i tried add after it didnt work
[03:29:04] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, I don't know how to list the releases
[03:29:23] <SWPadnos> ah - git show tags
[03:30:14] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe not - that's just a common google search term :)
[03:30:41] <tom3p> git show RELEASE_2_3_4 fatal: ambiguous argument 'RELEASE_2_3_4': unknown revision or path not in the working tree.
[03:31:01] <SWPadnos> where did you get the RELEASE_2_3_4 term from?
[03:31:21] <tom3p> typed it in
[03:31:41] <SWPadnos> ok, I'm betting that's not what it's called
[03:31:43] <tom3p> since RELEASE_2_3_3 'works' , seemed a good guess
[03:31:52] <SWPadnos> ah, well, maybe it is ;)
[03:32:30] <tom3p> git show-branch [master] make (print, messages) available immediately
[03:32:31] <SWPadnos> from Jeff's email, it looks like the tag is "v2.3.4"
[03:33:18] <tom3p> yes, ( well it filled 2 screens with stuff
[03:34:10] <tom3p> and left me at a prompt for godknowswhat ( q exits )
[03:34:29] <SWPadnos> git checkout v2.3.4 did that?
[03:34:51] <tom3p> no,, git show v2.3.4
[03:34:56] <SWPadnos> oh
[03:35:03] <SWPadnos> that was less
[03:35:14] <tom3p> les nessman?
[03:35:15] <SWPadnos> it runs the output through your pager by default
[03:35:26] <SWPadnos> no, Herb Tarleck
[03:35:59] <tom3p> git checkout v2.3.4 HEAD is now at 45d27a3... bump version for release
[03:36:11] <SWPadnos> there you go
[03:36:50] <tom3p> now cd src ./configure --run-in-place make clean make sudo make setuid ??
[03:37:02] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:37:13] <tom3p> thx very much :)
[03:37:16] <SWPadnos> and I think you can omit the --enable-run-in-place now, it's default
[03:38:45] <mozmck> is it default on 2.3.4 or just in master?
[03:41:50] <SWPadnos> no idea
[03:42:13] <SWPadnos> it seems it's been that way for a while though, so I imagine that 2.3.x is that way as well (but I don't know for sure)
[03:42:55] <tom3p> ah... now the terminal says "EMC2 - 2.3.4" :))
[03:43:41] <tom3p> and its printed on the splash screen
[04:24:17] <tom3p> goodnight & thx
[04:27:13] <ftkalcevic> Sometimes when jogging with my pendant, I can't, because emc is not in manual mode. Is there a neat way to automatically jump to the correct mode when jogging (obviously I don't want to be able to jog when running a program)
[04:39:43] <ds3> 9
[05:12:42] <dgarr> ftkalcevic: if it is because you are in mdi mode and you are using axis and git-master, then there is a patch that adds a hal pin to change to manual mode: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commitdiff;h=5de7d64b28e3c8a6fe7f44c0e4c1aad2e488e325
[05:13:25] <toastydeath> i know it may be a bit of an inconvenience
[05:13:37] <toastydeath> but why you want the machine to EVER move when not explicitly in jog
[05:13:41] <toastydeath> er, manual
[05:15:06] <dgarr> sometimes you might use axis and put _it_ in mdi, then want to do something with the pendant without going back to the keyboard to change axis to manual
[05:15:23] <ftkalcevic> Just then, I ran a program and it finished. So I went to jog the head away, but I wasn't in manual mode. I had to walk to the other side of the work shop and select manual mode in axis. walk back. Still didn't work. Back to the PC and manually jog a bit with the buttons in axis, then walk back and use my pendant
[05:16:01] <ftkalcevic> (the otherside of the workshop is 4 paces :)
[05:16:19] <dgarr> the patch i mentioned lets you connect a halpin (from your pendant) so it will make axis go to the manual mode
[05:16:26] <ftkalcevic> Thanks dgarr, I'll have a look.
[05:17:46] <ftkalcevic> Has the patch been applied to master, or do I have to apply it? What's the name of the pin?
[05:19:17] <dgarr> its in master so you must git pull to update your checkout -- there are other ways to apply the patch but if you are using git, that is probably the easiest
[05:20:07] <ftkalcevic> I only just grab master the 2 days ago, so should I already have it? What component.pin should I look for?
[05:20:51] <dgarr> you also need a postgui_hal file and a POSTGUI_HALFILE setting in your ini file to use hal pins created by the axis-ui
[05:22:12] <dgarr> ftkalcevic: if its that recent: yes (i think) run :$ halcmd show pin "axisui*"
[05:22:42] <ftkalcevic> axisui.set-manual-mode ?
[05:23:00] <dgarr> that's it!
[05:24:09] <ftkalcevic> I was browsing the pins. halui also has an input, halui.mode.manual. Do you know if this is the same?
[05:24:58] <dgarr> that one talks to emc, the axisui one talks to axis
[05:26:34] <ftkalcevic> Ah ha. I had that problem before, loading a gcode program. You can load it through emc, but then axis has no idea what is happening.
[05:27:01] <dgarr> if i remember, axis may be able to supersede if it is in mdi, the axisui-set-manual-mode solved the problem for me
[05:27:12] <ftkalcevic> Thanks
[05:27:25] <dgarr> using multiple interfaces simultaneously can be confusing
[05:29:40] <ftkalcevic> Yep. I've got a menu on my pendant, and it has been tough getting everything working. But it's getting there.
[05:30:18] <dgarr> a pendant and especially a mpg is worth the effort
[05:32:04] <ftkalcevic> Yes. I've only just started using it. I was concerned about how well an mpg would work, but it's great. The axis selector switch can be hard to remember. This is for my lathe. I might add an Activate X and Activate Z buttons.
[05:33:17] <toastydeath> just sort of an additional question - why doesn't your program go home
[05:33:22] <toastydeath> to a convenient spot after it finishes
[05:34:25] <ftkalcevic> I've been using wizards - simple things like face a bit off some stock. After that I want to move around a bit.
[05:34:33] <toastydeath> ah
[05:34:57] <ftkalcevic> Normally my routines use G31 (?) to return where they started, but that's not always the best spot.
[05:35:49] <MrSunshine_> what to use as limit switches?
[05:35:51] <toastydeath> i don't know which codes emc supports, but I always send all the machines I use to a convenient spot to inspect and work around the part
[05:38:42] <toastydeath> that usually consists of sending any axes I don't care about (z and Y) to home (via g28) and any axis that I need to orient specifically to reach the part (x) using g52
[05:38:57] <ftkalcevic> I only have homing on my lathe X axis. Z is always dependent on the task, whether I'm using the collet, or chuck, and whether I'm using the tailstock
[05:39:48] <ftkalcevic> I have a sliding limit switch in the ways near the headstock, and another one on the tailstock. These cut the power to my whole system.
[05:40:24] <toastydeath> on lathes I just home everything
[05:40:52] <toastydeath> but from your statement it sounds like you are using an engine lathe type setup
[05:41:32] <ftkalcevic> Maybe. What's an engine lathe? Mine is a hobbyist 9x20 lathe.
[05:41:46] <toastydeath> yeah, that's a type of engine lathe
[05:42:08] <toastydeath> just refers to the general layout and configuration of the machine.
[05:43:12] <toastydeath> engine lathes are good general-purpose machines, traditional flat bed with two way surfaces, tailstock
[05:45:16] <ftkalcevic> What type do you use? How is is different?
[05:46:25] <toastydeath> i use cnc slant bed lathes mostly
[05:46:41] <toastydeath> they usually don't have a tailstock, but if they do they're on an entirely seperate set of ways
[05:47:05] <toastydeath> so you can position the turret anywhere you want
[05:47:11] <toastydeath> and it won't run over the tailstock
[05:47:37] <toastydeath> also the tailstock on most of them is hydraulic, and the position itself can be programmed
[05:47:50] <ftkalcevic> Nice. Beats my toy.
[05:47:55] <toastydeath> * toastydeath shrug
[05:48:41] <toastydeath> the 10"x15" machines I use are 5'x10'x6' LWH and weigh 5000-6000 lbs
[05:48:47] <toastydeath> not exactly garage friendly
[05:49:08] <ftkalcevic> My workshop is the back room of my house. Wooden floors!
[05:49:10] <toastydeath> it would be too hard to get into machining if everyone had to have one of those
[05:50:32] <toastydeath> and they're a pain to use for one off stuff
[05:50:46] <toastydeath> they're good if you have to make 50 of something
[05:53:20] <toastydeath> little tools and parts I have to make i still walk over to an engine lathe to work on
[05:53:21] <toastydeath> manual
[05:54:47] <ftkalcevic> I sacrificed my lathe to CNC. It will take a bit of time to get used to not having the feel when turning.
[05:55:22] <toastydeath> just takes a different kind of feel
[05:55:32] <toastydeath> all things in time, i suppose, like you said.
[05:56:38] <ftkalcevic> I'm building a small collection of wizards (GCode subroutines) to run from my pendant, and I'll also be able to run them from GWiz.
[05:56:59] <MrSunshine_> what should i use for any kind of precision limiting switches ?
[05:58:11] <ftkalcevic> MrSunshine: Limit switches don't need to be precision unless you want to home on them. On my small lathe, I use small microswitches because that is all I can fit
[05:58:23] <MrSunshine_> its for homing and limiting= )
[05:58:42] <MrSunshine_> is those light switches used in like printers any better then a microswitch ? :)
[06:00:54] <ftkalcevic> That's what I use for homing. I think they have better repeatability. But, I also use the index pulse on the servo.
[06:02:03] <ftkalcevic> My setup will home until the optical sensor triggers, then it reverses and looks for the servo index pulse.
[06:02:49] <MrSunshine_> well i have no servo :P
[06:03:04] <ftkalcevic> I use the Omron EE-SX?? type
[06:03:36] <ftkalcevic> I also have a limit switch that will trigger if the machine goes beyond the home sensor too far.
[07:32:42] <micges_work> good morning
[08:02:58] <MrSunshine_> hah, the motors can take the minimill without a hitch =)
[09:12:16] <mik__> mik__ is now known as mik_
[09:28:24] <MattyMatt> pata ssd. shame they cost more than my lappy. only a bit tho 75 quid ain't bad
[09:38:20] <MattyMatt> bleh, cardbus->cf adaptor would make more sense. Almost as fast and more flexible
[09:41:14] <MattyMatt> I dunno why SSD like they used first on the ISS aren't mainstream. a 3.5" box stuffed with CF (SD in my consumer dream)
[09:41:52] <archivist> flash based has a limited life
[09:42:16] <MattyMatt> which makes having loads of reduncy and replacability good
[09:42:46] <MattyMatt> and spinning media has a limited life too
[09:43:08] <MattyMatt> it returneth to dust
[09:44:37] <MattyMatt> Atari ST was my last machine with the whole OS in ROM
[09:44:42] <MattyMatt> I miss it
[09:48:53] <MattyMatt> hmm circular reasoning. making a 3.5" raid box out of SD is one of the things I wanted the CNC for :)
[09:49:02] <MattyMatt> I remember now
[09:51:12] <MattyMatt> right I'm off to practice welding M4 bolts in a hole without melting the rail
[09:53:02] <MattyMatt> bloody stupid shelf rails. whose idea was this? :)
[09:57:45] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[09:59:46] <MattyMatt> I've bolted it mostly together with 4 rails, and it seems pretty smooth and solid. It's not too bad with 2 rails even, but the end of the table waggles when extended. the rotation right around the tool working line tho so that might be acceptable for some 2d work like that instructables plotter
[10:08:17] <MattyMatt> argh. no welding to sheet steel rails. I'll hold the bolts in with locknuts and 'mill' space in the slots for them
[10:09:03] <MattyMatt> the slots under the table, that is (pics to follow)
[10:09:39] <MattyMatt> mill = stanley knife & chisel
[10:28:44] <piasdom_> g'mornin all
[11:44:27] <MattyMatt> turned out mill = mill. using the end mill in a dremel hand-held is a rather pleasant way to carve wood
[11:44:48] <Valen> be a pretty small end mill?
[11:45:07] <MattyMatt> rather tiny yes
[11:45:21] <MattyMatt> 2mm or so
[11:45:34] <Valen> they even called an end mill at that size?
[11:45:38] <Valen> ;->
[11:45:51] <MattyMatt> it was the biggest one in the set
[11:46:41] <MattyMatt> the rest seem to involve rubbing a single grain of diamond dust against a point
[11:50:36] <MattyMatt> I'll need to buy these "end mills" by the dozen when the machine is working. this seems like the tool of choice
[11:51:50] <MattyMatt> I 'm quite pleased with the solidity of the machine tho. it'd probably handle a 1/4" router at least
[11:52:23] <MattyMatt> I'll wear out this dremel first
[12:02:56] <Valen> look at a spindle rather than a router
[12:03:06] <Valen> you can get them pretty cheap and they should last longer
[12:03:14] <Valen> (and they are way less noisy)
[12:07:24] <MattyMatt> less noise = good :) yeah I'll ask for advice before buying, unless I see something shiny & cheap on ebay first
[12:08:48] <Valen> linearmotionproducts2008
[12:09:22] <Valen> have had many good dealings with ballscrews from them
[12:36:10] <frallzor> what day is it today sir? Well its christmas day!
[12:46:02] <alex_joni> frallzor: sudo ntpdate time.nist.gov
[12:58:14] <frallzor> no sir, for me, it is christmas
[13:01:24] <Valen> frallzor got some ;-P
[13:02:17] <alex_joni> Valen: then it's christmas every 4 years now
[13:03:11] <Valen> lol
[13:04:24] <frallzor> frallzor got packages!
[13:23:08] <alex_joni> yeah, well.. if you can't find the real deal, order a blow-up version
[13:26:03] <archivist> hmm blow-up plus emc
[13:26:16] <archivist> all the right moves
[13:26:21] <frallzor> steel parts!
[13:26:26] <alex_joni> just use non sharp tools
[13:42:43] <jthornton> archivist what is the difference between MySQL client and server?
[13:42:56] <jthornton> or anyone that knows :)
[13:43:15] <archivist> er...the client...asks the server, for the data
[13:43:41] <archivist> many clients one server
[13:44:00] <jthornton> so I need to install the server if I'm using javascript to query the database?
[13:44:28] <jthornton> it looks like they all get intalled
[13:44:36] <archivist> yes, but js does not normally call the db directly
[13:45:47] <jthornton> I'm just starting to work through a shopping cart tutorial that uses php and mysql
[13:46:25] <archivist> php is the client talking to the server
[13:46:43] <archivist> js talks from the browser client to php
[13:47:00] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[13:49:44] <jthornton> looks like I need Apache too :)
[13:50:01] <archivist> normally yes
[13:51:55] <roh> hm. is there a way to get 'all ui output' via network from a emc2 install?
[13:52:40] <roh> not remote axix, but additional to the local axis, some readonly-view would be nice (to generate a osd-overlay for a video for example)
[13:53:01] <roh> s/axix/axis
[13:53:11] <SWPadnos> vnc might have a "snoop" mode
[13:53:16] <SWPadnos> but I don't know
[13:53:25] <roh> nah.. not the ui directly, more like 'the data'
[13:53:32] <SWPadnos> what data?
[13:53:34] <roh> a datastream of 'what is it doing'
[13:53:43] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[13:53:51] <roh> basically anything the core sends to axis for display/rendering
[13:53:59] <SWPadnos> that's not how it works
[13:54:22] <SWPadnos> all of the display "stuff" is in AXIS, that's why it's called a user interface
[13:54:25] <roh> so i could pick single values like feedrate, position, toll etc and generate an osd for the camerafeed
[13:54:42] <SWPadnos> ok, that's a little different
[13:55:13] <SWPadnos> remember, you can run more than one UI at a time, so you can have the local AXIS running the machine, and run another thing on a remote machine, connected to the same instance of EMC
[13:55:16] <SWPadnos> via NML
[13:55:43] <roh> ah. i see.. so nml is the 'interface' .. is it a socket or how does that work?
[13:55:44] <SWPadnos> that remote thing can be halui, axis, keystick, or something you write yourself, ie. any UI
[13:56:15] <SWPadnos> it's a shared memory thing, with "servers" that will move messages across network or serial links as well
[13:57:43] <roh> SWPadnos ok.. so i would need to run what to make that 'ip based' ? remote-axis?
[13:57:50] <SWPadnos> no
[13:58:04] <SWPadnos> look in the configs/common directory, I think
[13:58:22] <SWPadnos> there should be an example there for server and client side nml configs
[13:58:45] <roh> ok
[14:01:23] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/1654814
[14:03:12] <SWPadnos> too funny - I knew that was Mark from the first paragraph
[14:06:31] <skunkworks> heh
[14:06:52] <skunkworks> he used to be so mach-centric
[14:06:53] <cradek_> Are a lot of people with lathes checking out emc because of dissatisfaction with ... other software? I wonder if that's why the cabal has stepped up the attacks lately.
[14:07:02] <SWPadnos> still is, but getting fed up
[14:07:02] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[14:09:21] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/p/ubWYcoyUn/ tadaaa
[14:10:10] <archivist> somebody been to the laser cutters!
[14:10:45] <skunkworks> frallzor: Lots of parts :) do you have a 'togather' picuture?
[14:11:47] <frallzor> as in assembled?
[14:12:03] <skunkworks> yes
[14:12:07] <frallzor> nope then, just unpacked them =)
[14:12:52] <frallzor> funny how it got cheaper to order them from the UK than nationally
[14:15:23] <frallzor> decent deliverytime too, week exactly
[14:32:46] <cradek> what is it?
[14:34:35] <skunkworks> heh - I just figured it was some sort of gantry kit
[14:34:53] <cradek> we need to make a cnc drafting machine
[14:35:27] <skunkworks> ?
[14:35:43] <cradek> the parts are sitting on a drafting machine
[14:36:23] <skunkworks> ah
[14:36:25] <skunkworks> ok
[14:36:56] <frallzor> cradek what is what =)
[14:37:12] <cradek> what do the parts make when put together?
[14:37:13] <frallzor> the "table"?
[14:37:16] <frallzor> ah
[14:37:20] <cradek> I know what the table is :-)
[14:37:32] <frallzor> mostly gantry assembly
[14:40:18] <frallzor> Im making a mechmate you see
[14:43:12] <Dave911> >>>parts are sitting on a drafting machine
[14:43:14] <Dave911> Ha ha ....I use my "drafting machine" to support my monitors which are connected to my Cad PC!
[14:43:15] <Dave911> A lot of younger guys don't know what those are anymore.. :-)
[14:43:44] <frallzor> I know what its used for :P
[14:44:39] <frallzor> I'm a future designer :P
[14:45:04] <frallzor> but hey, it was available and big enough!
[14:48:16] <Dave911> They still work .... I have one quite a bit bigger than that. The one I have now, I actually bought an identical new table back in the early 80's and I think it was $2500 back then.
[14:48:18] <Dave911> I was hot stuff, tilt, raise and lower all with a foot pedal and a lever..... It must weigh 400 lbs. The ideal drafting machine.. ;-)
[14:48:37] <frallzor> I got mine for like $25 =P
[14:48:55] <archivist> I last did PCB tape ups on one
[14:49:24] <frallzor> they are great when used as boards, I tend to tape drawing and suck on it
[14:49:36] <Dave911> The one I have now, identical to the one I spent $2500 on years ago, I got for free.... Who wants a 400 lb table.
[14:50:19] <frallzor> ppl dont know what they sell/give away
[14:50:21] <frallzor> its great
[14:51:09] <Dave911> I like mine, but it was a horrible to get down into my basement office....
[14:51:38] <frallzor> pretty clear way into this room, but it still was a bitch getting in it
[14:51:47] <frallzor> base weighs like shit
[15:26:13] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[15:33:11] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[15:43:31] <obinou> ls
[15:43:45] <obinou> (sorry)
[15:48:41] <skunkworks> woo hoo - power has been restored and everything is fuctioning normally. (the house is now backfed from the garage)
[15:49:13] <Jymmm> No more bicycle electricity?
[15:50:03] <skunkworks> that would be cool ;)
[15:50:43] <skunkworks> no smoke either. (yet)
[15:51:04] <skunkworks> I should clamp the incoming and see what the house takes at an idle
[15:51:12] <skunkworks> but my clamp meter is at work
[15:51:20] <Jymmm> What happened?
[15:51:59] <Jymmm> Just converted over to the new breakerbox?
[15:52:03] <skunkworks> nothing - the house was 125 amp service - and I wanted a 200a service in the garage. instead of running the garage from the house - I reversed it.
[15:52:17] <skunkworks> right
[15:53:02] <Jymmm> I still think you should have got a 400A service for the garage alone =)
[15:53:07] <skunkworks> heh
[15:53:11] <Jymmm> Muhahahahahaha
[15:53:27] <Jymmm> It's... It's.... IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:53:56] <kanzure> i'm not :(
[15:53:57] <skunkworks> well - I asked the lineman how hard it would be to get 3 phase in the future... He said not too hard - the 3 phase feed is 1/2 block away - but he would have to quote it first. ;)
[15:54:07] <archivist> usless ex boss has just caused smoke to get out of the wiring
[15:54:20] <skunkworks> so I wouldn't have a big suprise
[15:54:42] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Oh, that would be cool.
[15:55:30] <mozmck_work> skunkworks: seems like it costs several thousand last I heard.
[15:55:36] <skunkworks> he said atleast one pole would have to be replaced - and then 3 transformers
[15:55:50] <skunkworks> I was afraid to ask.
[15:55:56] <mozmck_work> then there's the monthly fee
[15:56:23] <skunkworks> right - dad has 3 phase at the shop (in the country) and I think around here it isn't bad
[15:56:34] <skunkworks> (monthly fee anyways)
[15:57:22] <skunkworks> like the meter fee is about twice normal - but I could ask dad
[15:57:42] <mozmck_work> yeah, it probably varies a bit depending on location. but the hookup fee I've heard has always been terrible.
[15:59:22] <JT-Work> the hook up fee depends on your distance and the expected amount of usage. For us the 3 phase is 50 feet from the shop and the hook up fee would be $10k
[15:59:33] <skunkworks> yikes
[16:00:20] <Jymmm> JT-Work: comercial or residential?
[16:00:27] <skunkworks> hmm when dad did it - they worked with him - letting him do a lot of the work. I wonder if I could supply the tranformers ;)
[16:00:51] <Jymmm> skunkworks: No, you can't wind your own xmfrs! ;)
[16:01:11] <JT-Work> the shop is in a residential area
[16:01:26] <mozmck_work> JT-Work: that's the kind of stuff I've heard. Some places if the usage won't be high enough they won't even hook you up.
[16:03:22] <skunkworks> this is a little town - and the township takes care of it.. (the town buys the power from the outside and takes care of all the lines and such)
[16:03:23] <mozmck_work> From what most people tell me it is more cost effecient to use a rotary converter. I have one in the corner and I can run all my 3-phase stuff off of it.
[16:03:35] <MattyMatt> $10k would buy a 3phase generator and a big bucket of fuel
[16:03:44] <JT-Work> that's what we do too
[16:04:03] <skunkworks> hwh
[16:04:03] <skunkworks> heh
[16:04:23] <JT-Work> one of these days I'm going to hook up the VFD to my mill instead of the phase converter
[16:04:26] <Jymmm> skunkworks: No, no, you have to get a three seater bicycle =)
[16:05:05] <skunkworks> then again - anything I will probably use in the garage could be converted to single phase..
[16:05:52] <mozmck_work> VFDs are nice, but for me they would cost way more. I have a number of 3phase machines, and I made my converter with an old motor and some caps and a magnetic contactor and a potential relay.
[16:06:24] <mozmck_work> probably only cost $50 to $100 total
[16:06:34] <cradek> I have a big rotary converter (homemade from motors) and it works great. I put it out in the garage so I don't have to listen to it.
[16:07:25] <skunkworks> neat
[16:07:32] <mozmck_work> I actually convert my single phase to 3 if a motor goes out on something, because I can get good used motors generally from $5 to $15 for about any size.
[16:08:00] <cradek> vfd for a spindle is great, but the mill has 3 phase motors all over it
[16:08:17] <JT-Work> my mill will drop out if I start the lathe spindle in any of the higher speeds, that is why I'm putting the VFD on it
[16:08:29] <archivist> I converted to 3 phase so I could use a vfd
[16:08:53] <mozmck_work> JT-Work: you need a bigger rotary sounds like!
[16:09:16] <mozmck_work> mine is a 7.5 hp motor
[16:09:39] <JT-Work> the VFD is much more quiet... ours is 15 hp I think
[16:09:54] <cradek> what do you mean drops out?
[16:10:11] <cradek> you should have all the electronics on the real phase
[16:10:36] <cradek> that synthesized leg is just for motors IMO
[16:11:01] <cradek> I've had to do [very minor] rewiring on both mills to get all the electronics together on the same phase
[16:11:09] <JT-Work> There is a potential relay that drops out the servos if the spindle quits
[16:11:47] <JT-Work> all the electronics are on a separate 120v circuit
[16:12:03] <mozmck_work> so the spindle quits if the voltage drops to low?
[16:12:03] <cradek> aha
[16:13:23] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/ZP_DR8SA.jpg
[16:13:31] <JT-Work> mozmck_work: no, if I lost 3 phase like a breaker tripping I don't want the mill to continue moving so the potential relay drops the servos out but it is a little sensitive to voltage
[16:13:40] <skunkworks> now if I could get the cable company to burry the cable
[16:14:10] <mozmck_work> oh I see.
[16:14:16] <JT-Work> cut it a bunch of times and they will skunkworks
[16:14:42] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Turn the cable into 3ph
[16:14:52] <JT-Work> mozmck_work: I'm not near the mill all the time when it is running.
[16:15:42] <skunkworks> Jymmm: that would sure be the wild leg..
[16:15:51] <JT-Work> so it was a safety feature that I added
[16:20:51] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Do you have conduit to the pole that cable is run from?
[16:21:05] <Jymmm> Cable
[16:22:08] <Jymmm> tap tap tap... is this thing on?
[16:22:53] <skunkworks> heh - I could have them drop the cable into the garage - the same as the power. Then I could run the cable to the house in the 4" conduit I barried
[16:22:59] <skunkworks> burried
[16:23:08] <cradek> buried
[16:23:13] <skunkworks> sorry
[16:23:14] <cradek> :-)
[16:23:21] <skunkworks> I didn't think it looked right
[16:23:25] <Jymmm> berried
[16:24:07] <skunkworks> our cats name is barry
[16:24:11] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Right, but is the garage ariel or underground drop?
[16:24:16] <skunkworks> I like my cat
[16:24:21] <skunkworks> my cat is fuzzy
[16:24:35] <Jymmm> Cats are good for one thing... dog food.
[16:24:37] <cradek> if he attacks you, you could say you've been barryed
[16:24:47] <Jymmm> lol @ cradek
[16:25:02] <skunkworks> ariel
[16:25:18] <SWPadnos> if he hisses at visitors, you could say there's a barryer to entry
[16:25:24] <skunkworks> heh
[16:25:29] <archivist> groan
[16:25:43] <cradek> haha
[16:27:03] <skunkworks> he had a high piched squeek when he meows.. So my wife said 'he is no barry white...' and it stuck
[16:27:26] <skunkworks> (he is mostly white)
[16:27:51] <archivist> ceiling cat
[16:28:51] <skunkworks> well - it is ariel to the pole right at the corner of the garage (the pole is actually all but touching the corner of the garage) and then goes underground to the meter box
[16:29:50] <Jymmm> skunkworks: BAck wall of garage closest to the man door?
[16:30:07] <Jymmm> I don't remember seeing a pole in any previous photos
[16:30:17] <Jymmm> but I didn't look for one either.
[16:33:58] <skunkworks> hold on
[16:36:20] <mozmck_work> aerial
[16:36:30] <Jymmm> Arial
[16:36:40] <mozmck_work> :)
[16:37:24] <cradek> oriole?
[16:38:03] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/RApeg5J.jpg
[16:38:07] <SWPadnos> oreo
[16:38:49] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Shit dude, just cut the drop from your house =)
[16:39:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Double Stuff
[16:39:37] <SWPadnos> ewww
[16:42:52] <mozmck_work> double stuff are 90% artery clogging synthetic grease like stuff. used to like them but I don't feel so good after eating a few...
[16:43:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Mint Double Stuff
[16:43:13] <SWPadnos> I prefer "single stuff", which are only 45% artery-clogging goo
[16:43:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Pumpkin Double Stuff
[16:43:27] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I should go get some now
[16:43:31] <Jymmm> Oh Chocolate fudge dipped double stuff!
[16:43:36] <SWPadnos> I like the Mint ones
[16:44:01] <SWPadnos> used to get "grasshoppers" all the time, before they started coating them in chocolate
[16:44:57] <skunkworks> wait - I thought a grasshopper was an alcoholic drink
[16:45:09] <Jymmm> it is, SWPadnos is a lush
[16:45:21] <SWPadnos> more or less anything with chocolate and mint is called a grasshopper-something
[16:45:33] <skunkworks> ah
[16:45:42] <SWPadnos> I do like grasshopper pie, which is a chocolate cookie crust with a mint (and chocolate) alcoholic cream pie center
[16:46:06] <SWPadnos> creme de menthe and creme de cacao make a good combination with whipped cream :)
[16:46:15] <SWPadnos> (and other secret ingredients)
[16:46:46] <SWPadnos> though one person said "oh my god, it's just like toothpaste" when I gave her some
[16:47:17] <Jymmm> lol
[16:53:55] <skunkworks> mmmmm toothpaste
[16:54:31] <Jymmm> Yeah, so you can just brush your teeth with Grasshopper pie instead!
[16:54:50] <Jymmm> chocolate graham cracker crust and all!
[18:13:36] <MattyMatt> this is a tidy little machine -> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving_W0QQitemZ190345794137
[18:28:08] <tom3p> MattyMatt: got one running on my desk now
[18:28:40] <tom3p> indeed very tidy, and plug & play too, the guy gives you a stepconf for emc2
[18:28:40] <skunkworks> tom3p: switched to servos yet?
[18:29:01] <tom3p> skunkworks: nope, just got the mill outta the box last nite
[18:29:26] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:30:26] <tom3p> MattyMatt: you wont find similar as solid, this feels like... a machine ;)
[18:30:46] <tom3p> you dont feel any play anywhere
[18:31:49] <tom3p> i was just running 'personal apt' in dosbox on ubuntu, had to find a floppy drive and read old .lzh files
[18:34:52] <MattyMatt> yeah it looks solider than a meccano one. half the price too
[18:35:26] <MattyMatt> just needs an umprella for the table motor so you can run it wet :)
[18:36:30] <MattyMatt> or put the machine in a deep kitty litter tray with a slot for the motor
[18:37:16] <tom3p> ummm, maybe a tray on the table , the walls could capture spray
[18:38:49] <MattyMatt> yeah the table goes over the motor, not much clearance for a water shield either
[18:40:04] <tom3p> not much z either, the 2 are the same, maybe 3" ( i dont have limits on it yet , so cautious about finding max stroke )
[18:40:48] <MattyMatt> this ad says 200x150x60mm. did you get that size?
[18:42:25] <tom3p> certainly that much screw is available, again didnt run to edges yet ( 60mm Z sounds right, its ctrd and i got a bit more than 1" either side of Z block)
[18:46:58] <MattyMatt> so big enough for timing covers but not for chaincases :)
[18:51:09] <MattyMatt> I need walnut dashboard in my fiesta first
[18:52:11] <tom3p> i bet the strokes listed are true, and thats small, its just solid, cheap(ish) and desktop sized
[18:52:54] <MattyMatt> yep. rather good looking too. that black anodising looks laquered
[18:53:48] <frallzor> hmmm servomotors using step/dir, good or anus?
[18:53:56] <MattyMatt> my motors arrived today. 5V of 1A goodness
[18:56:18] <MattyMatt> I'll need 2 to move my table I think. the action is smooth & stiff but rather heavy
[18:57:30] <MattyMatt> 50g spring won't do it. I'll fit the screw and a 1" radius pully
[19:01:48] <andypugh> Would one expect to be able to set the analog/digital mode of a gamepad in software? I keep confusing myself because it starts up in digital mode.
[19:02:35] <MattyMatt> probably not, is my guess
[19:02:58] <andypugh> I think that some playstation games can. But this is not a Playstation.
[19:03:20] <tom3p> uh, the buttons are digital, but the little wiggly sticks are analog. in linux, such jstix connect to gameport and 'just work'
[19:03:22] <MattyMatt> ah in that case, it's driver dependent
[19:04:05] <tom3p> i use an xbox joypad, hacked to a real USB connector ( xbox is usb but funky plug)
[19:04:08] <MattyMatt> if the controller itself has a software switch, it's just a case of flipping it somehow
[19:04:45] <MattyMatt> tom3p playstation ones start in a backward compatability one with dead analogs
[19:04:56] <MattyMatt> ^mode
[19:05:01] <andypugh> Aye, but I can't see it as a pin or a paremeter in HAL
[19:05:16] <tom3p> ah
[19:05:29] <andypugh> But I might not be looking in the right place.
[19:05:58] <MattyMatt> if it isn't exposed in the joystick api, you'll have to hack the driver
[19:07:00] <andypugh> I suspect that might be a little beyond me.
[19:07:18] <tom3p> try the debugging tool jscalibrate, it checks teh analog and the digital side (its in the ubuntu repositories )
[19:07:56] <andypugh> See if that can switch the mode you mean?
[19:08:29] <tom3p> i just used it to hook a dancepad up, hacked thru a usb joypad, i bet my niece breaks her neck on that slippery thing
[19:08:48] <MattyMatt> jscalibrator
[19:08:52] <tom3p> andypugh: no, i mean see what it says, i dont know where tyhat'll take you
[19:10:41] <tom3p> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-set-up-a-gameportgamepad-or-joystick-in-ubuntu.html
[19:10:55] <MattyMatt> this reminds me, I've got a Logitech FF joystick to play with
[19:11:44] <MattyMatt> if these 1A motors won't move my machine, they'll go in that >:)
[19:11:54] <andypugh> Looks like there is a driver or permissions issue with jscalibrator, so I might just leave a working system alone.
[19:12:15] <andypugh> What's the torque rating on the motors Matt?
[19:12:22] <MattyMatt> 60oz-in
[19:12:42] <MattyMatt> Superior Electric. old ones
[19:13:06] <MattyMatt> 8 wire
[19:14:21] <MattyMatt> modern ones the same size have 2x that torque, but wth these were £12 for 4
[19:14:23] <andypugh> 0.4Nm sounds small.
[19:14:38] <andypugh> Is that rating in unipolar mode?
[19:15:09] <andypugh> You might be able to run them bipolar.
[19:15:27] <andypugh> (ie, they might be so old that they assume a unipolar driver)
[19:15:39] <MattyMatt> yeah could be :)
[19:16:10] <MattyMatt> I'll draw real curves with the pulley & weights with a few homebrew drivers
[19:16:57] <andypugh> The problem with that approach is that the static torque isn't a dreadfully useful metric.
[19:17:26] <MattyMatt> long string, wide pulley
[19:17:37] <andypugh> What did you have in mind for a homebrew driver?
[19:17:49] <MattyMatt> dead printers for a start
[19:18:33] <andypugh> You ought to be able to emulate a brake dyno, if you let the string slip on the pulley and see what tension stalls the motor at any given speed.
[19:18:40] <MattyMatt> then I'll either give in and buy a 4 axis board, or buy a tube of chips
[19:19:04] <andypugh> You might as well jump straight to option 1 there, to be honest.
[19:19:38] <MattyMatt> yeah it would be nice to see this working asap now :)
[19:20:34] <MattyMatt> I can order one, and then race the chinese postman by hacking one together
[19:21:14] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250519515520
[19:21:43] <MattyMatt> that's the one
[19:21:56] <andypugh> <£50. I doubt you would build one for that, once you allow for "natural wastage"
[19:22:23] <MattyMatt> oh I can solder OK, and a tube of 25 chips is $80
[19:22:39] <MattyMatt> that same chip
[19:22:46] <andypugh> I started with a previous version (without the fan on the heatsink) and it was fine till I blew it up one time too many.
[19:23:22] <MattyMatt> does it just sulk for a while then come back to life?
[19:23:58] <andypugh> Not when you have shorted two phases together and vapourised the pins...
[19:24:16] <MattyMatt> I dunno where I'd buy my copper clad board these days. no tandy
[19:24:39] <andypugh> Maplin
[19:24:42] <MattyMatt> and all the little places have gone now
[19:25:11] <MattyMatt> yeah maplin prices are as crazy as tandy :) I'll get them on ebay thanks
[19:25:41] <andypugh> Not on a sunday afternoon within 20 minutes you won't. Call me impatient.
[19:26:03] <MattyMatt> Maplin do that gold plating stuff. could be a laugh for the production version
[19:26:29] <MattyMatt> because naturally if I make one I'll make 25 and flog some
[19:26:37] <andypugh> Tell you what, though. I have a 3 axis TA8435H board here with at least two chips that haven't obviously exploded. Do you want it?
[19:28:31] <MattyMatt> only to play with :) I will order a new one tonight
[19:29:11] <andypugh> The one I linked to claims to be in the UK, so mine probably wouldn't beat that one.
[19:30:46] <MattyMatt> I've spent 4 weeks on this so far, been relearning woodwork. I'll probably spend 2 days mounting the screw(s)
[19:31:02] <andypugh> Reading the feedback, a false claim, but the other negatives seem very petty.
[19:31:17] <MattyMatt> and then I still need to make a nut. no promising bits of brass have presented themselves yet
[19:31:26] <andypugh> I have been at this a year, and still not started on the actual project I am building it to do.
[19:32:23] <MattyMatt> this machine is only to carve some wood for cash to build the next machine :)
[19:32:46] <MattyMatt> and patterns for the casting too, while I'm at it :)
[19:35:30] <MattyMatt> or I'll just build the next one out of fancy carved wood
[19:36:04] <MattyMatt> with black iron fittings & acme screw this would look 19th century chic
[19:37:08] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/p/fWcEznIhO/ sexy ey
[19:39:38] <MattyMatt> a railway wagon?
[19:40:06] <frallzor> Y-car =)
[19:41:23] <MattyMatt> are you going to cut slots in the table for the bits in the middle?
[19:41:36] <frallzor> ??
[19:43:27] <MattyMatt> it looks like the bits in the middle with 4 slots are holding the frame away from the table
[19:43:31] <MattyMatt> to me
[19:44:03] <frallzor> cant recall the correct name for this type of mill
[19:44:16] <frallzor> but that car will travel above the table
[19:44:27] <frallzor> and Z will go in the big slot
[19:44:36] <frallzor> gantry! =)
[19:44:58] <MattyMatt> ah yes I see
[19:45:28] <MattyMatt> I think %)
[19:45:59] <frallzor> im making a mechmate, so not my own drawings
[19:46:51] <MattyMatt> I wish I'd bought solsylva plans now. my time is worth more than $35
[19:47:39] <frallzor> make a mechmate, free plans and support =P
[19:48:01] <MattyMatt> when I have somewhere to do serious metalwork
[19:48:42] <MattyMatt> my friend wants a torchmate. that'll solve a lot of problems :)
[19:51:41] <frallzor> ehhhh use a saw :P
[19:52:13] <MattyMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGVQQf_iQpI
[19:52:20] <MattyMatt> i DO see :)
[19:52:44] <MattyMatt> will yours be blue?
[19:52:57] <frallzor> yellow :P
[19:53:34] <frallzor> or whatever nice color I can get hold of thats good for protecting the steel
[19:53:44] <frallzor> everythin BUT blue =)
[19:53:45] <frallzor> *g
[19:56:42] <frallzor> do you know of a nice HF spindle?
[20:30:56] <andypugh> cradek: Just tried that 4mm pitch thread that was the problem before, still with the paper-wrapped-round-the-spindle 50 line "encoder". It worked like a charm till the tool broke.
[20:31:00] <Richmond100> Richmond100 is now known as slavetolove
[20:32:01] <cradek> I guess that's good?
[20:32:14] <archivist> thats when you realise how strong a machine needs to be
[20:32:30] <andypugh> All the bits you have had any control over are excellent.
[20:32:52] <cradek> excellent, that's good to know
[20:32:56] <archivist> reduce the cut per pass and try again
[20:33:57] <archivist> I bust a parting tool the other day, tailstock support on the lathe is not up to the job
[20:34:24] <cradek> 4mm is huge - try cutting to half depth (with compound feed Q30) then move Z over by half the pitch and cut to full depth still with Q30. this will keep you from ever having to cut the full depth.
[20:34:49] <cradek> you can even do it in three steps if it would help
[20:36:16] <archivist> material lifting and screwing itself over the tool is not fun
[20:36:43] <cradek> yep
[20:38:45] <cradek> did that make any sense? can you picture it?
[20:39:15] <archivist> when I did a valve spindle thread about 20" long I had a travelling steady that had 1/2" pitch
[20:40:17] <archivist> taking bites and moving sideways for another bite makes sense to me
[20:40:52] <archivist> I see some threading algorithms have that built in
[20:41:00] <andypugh> Sorry, I was telling the same story in the mailing list.
[20:41:41] <andypugh> I guess you are saying to move back half a pitch, not forwards?
[20:41:44] <skunkworks> that is why on a manual lathe for cutting a normal thread the compound is set to 29deg
[20:41:52] <cradek> it doesn't matter which way you move
[20:42:09] <SWPadnos> if you move 1/2 pitch that is
[20:42:11] <andypugh> No, of course not. I shall hand back my geometry books.
[20:43:08] <andypugh> I can even imagine coding it into a G-code routine. Three bites at the cherry sounds right.
[20:43:18] <cradek> andypugh: thanks for keeping the list updated. often I don't let list readers know everything that's going on.
[20:43:33] <cradek> andypugh: yeah, just use 2-3 G76 lines instead of 1
[20:43:48] <andypugh> IRC is a bit new-fangled for me, I am more familiar with mailing lists.
[20:44:36] <kanzure> are there any emc-related mailing lists that are not the emc develop/users lists?
[20:44:52] <cradek> as for how to pick up an existing thread in cnc - not sure how to do that
[20:45:02] <kanzure> http://heybryan.org/mailing_lists.html i'd be interested in subscribing
[20:45:08] <cradek> if you don't have much cut, it's probably easy - just get your peaks to be somewhere that's not cut yet
[20:45:17] <cradek> if you need just two more passes, ouch.
[20:45:33] <gene_> Gene is back! Does anyone have some python code to generate a 14 tooth sprocket for #35 chain?
[20:45:36] <cradek> BUT if you haven't removed it, you can just run the program again - index is still in the same place
[20:45:47] <andypugh> Only the dev and the users lists, what other info were you looking for?
[20:45:53] <kanzure> gene_: if you find some, please bring it to my attention
[20:46:15] <kanzure> andypugh: nothing in particular. just exploring :)
[20:47:18] <andypugh> Why Python? I would have thought it was easy enough in pure G-code. Probably even parametrically.
[20:47:51] <kanzure> fenn and i have been working on some python software to come up with screws and helices
[20:47:54] <kanzure> no sprockets yet
[20:48:14] <gene_> doing some prelim work on scrap paper, I see I can fit 14 teeth insode a 2" wide alu strap, but it would seem easier to use my A table.. Darn
[20:48:54] <andypugh> I think sprockets are pretty simple, a ring of holes then an arc-out to let the rollers clear the points.
[20:49:22] <archivist> most are :)
[20:49:51] <cradek> are the sides involute so the chain can unroll? clearly the bottom is just round...
[20:50:33] <archivist> the arc is from the center of the next pitch
[20:50:34] <gene_> That is a turn of something over 25 degrees per tooth, but the bottom of the gullet is only .2" wide, so I'd have to use a .125" mill
[20:50:46] <andypugh> Involute assumes you want to drive during the unmesh. I am pretty sure you don't want that at all.
[20:51:25] <cradek> so anything more "open" than involute?
[20:51:31] <gene_> Easy enough to calculate the turn, but the gullet involute clearance might be beyond my math ken
[20:51:43] <archivist> they are shortened a bit
[20:52:07] <archivist> but plain arcs will do
[20:52:07] <andypugh> So you can just count round, mill a circle centred on the current position then an arc centred on the previous position, and one on the next. Fotunately G-code has sin and cos...
[20:52:19] <gene_> Yes. at 14 teeth, the gullet is .180" deep, near right.
[20:52:19] <cradek> have to get the PD exactly right...
[20:52:44] <Jymmm> say something addressed to me please
[20:52:53] <andypugh> Yes, you need to work on a polygon, not a circle, especially at 14 teeth
[20:52:56] <archivist> I use a rotary to divide
[20:53:17] <cradek> http://www.buyblueprint.com/article/40/
[20:53:27] <archivist> * archivist ignores Jymmm
[20:53:36] <Jymmm> thanks
[20:55:22] <gene_> That link looks like it has enough for me to do this, thanks.
[20:55:39] <cradek> hope you get it, looks finicky
[20:55:40] <andypugh> I have an irritating problem with my lathe at the moment. Sometimes (but not always) when the spindle starts, the Z-axis amp turns off...
[20:55:55] <cradek> andypugh: turns off?
[20:56:34] <andypugh> Yes. I spent ages on the amp-enable circuit, and now I am wishing I hadn't bothered.
[20:57:23] <archivist> noise ?
[20:57:36] <andypugh> As all the amps are on the same "enable" pin and the others stay on it can't be related to the HAL setup or sofware, must be hardware.
[20:58:06] <tom3p> nail it with a pull up (or down) till the jobs done
[20:58:23] <cradek> sounds bizarre. are all the amp grounds equally good?
[20:58:39] <andypugh> Just unplugging the amp-enable plug would do the trick.
[20:58:51] <andypugh> Should be.
[20:59:11] <tom3p> if you nail it and it happens again , it aint the enable
[20:59:32] <andypugh> I will be back in the box again before I do any more work to reconfigure for a 3-phase spindle drive, I will investigate then.
[21:00:31] <andypugh> And then the whole thing is likely to change as I need more pins for a milling spindle encoder so a 7i43 is on the shopping list.
[21:00:59] <andypugh> (Any other UK-ers want to combine orders, the postage is about half the cost of the boards)
[21:05:56] <cradek> sounds like pcw needs a UK distributor
[21:06:16] <archivist> yup postage to this side costs
[21:06:33] <andypugh> And then you pay duty on the cost price + postage
[21:06:43] <andypugh> And then you pay VAT on that total
[21:07:07] <andypugh> (Yes, you do pay tax on a tax!)
[21:07:34] <archivist> the poorest in the UK are taxed the most
[21:09:08] <tom3p> this morning, that cheap 4 axis stepper driver, if the chinese keep making products aimed at mach, then more people will go that way ( vendor only needs to include a nice set of pix showing how to set up in mach )
[21:09:21] <andypugh> i might investigate getting my german friend to buy me an early christmas present from the german distributor
[21:09:42] <maxd> howdy
[21:09:45] <tom3p> ask them to send via usps
[21:09:51] <andypugh> I bought one, and didn't use it in Mach :-)
[21:10:08] <tom3p> make a b\nice set of pix on how to use with emc ;)
[21:10:47] <andypugh> Just send him a Stepconf screenshot, he might use it.
[21:11:22] <maxd> maxd is now known as maxstor
[21:11:40] <maxstor> anyone else from hackerspaces in here?
[21:14:10] <maxstor> also, I have been wondering how to route on the inside or outside of shapes, not right on the line...
[21:14:22] <cradek> maxstor: cutter compensation
[21:14:43] <maxstor> cradek, is that in cam or right in emc?
[21:14:44] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_tool_compensation.html#sec:Cutter-Radius-Compensation
[21:15:08] <cradek> in emc
[21:15:27] <maxstor> ok
[21:15:29] <cradek> some cam does it too, but it's nice to be able to set the tool diameter in the tool table and have emc compensate
[21:15:39] <cradek> ... without regenerating all the gcode
[21:15:54] <maxstor> ok
[21:16:43] <andypugh> If I was milling sprockets I would definitely be using diameter compensation to make the maths easier
[21:17:15] <cradek> oh, no kidding...
[21:17:40] <archivist> I hand filed the last one I did
[21:18:37] <archivist> and part hand milled on a rotary table
[21:19:18] <andypugh> I had my last ones wire-eroded. 10-tooth bicycle pitch. It was the only way to get low enough gearing on the RobotWars robot
[21:19:52] <cradek> I'd be fool enough to try milling it... would probably succeed, too :-)
[21:20:09] <archivist> http://gears.archivist.info/gears/P1010013.JPG antique bicycle
[21:20:31] <andypugh> Block chain?
[21:20:38] <maxstor> thx a bunch cradek
[21:20:39] <archivist> yes
[21:20:40] <cradek> neat
[21:21:14] <archivist> milling to a line on that one
[21:21:18] <andypugh> I would mill the sprockets without a second thought now, but at the time I was on good terms with a wire-eroding shop.
[21:21:19] <cradek> maxstor: welcome (make sure you're using emc2.3, not emc2.2, if using cutter compensation)
[21:21:57] <andypugh> Hmm, could you use coordinate rotation to make sprockets?
[21:22:12] <cradek> sure
[21:22:29] <cradek> but unless you're hand-calculating it, why bother
[21:22:54] <andypugh> Mill a pocket, rotate the coordinates, do it again.
[21:23:09] <cradek> yeah, it would definitely work to do that
[21:23:31] <cradek> I did a similar thing yesterday, wanting the same feature at four different places/rotations
[21:23:35] <andypugh> But yes, a bit of sincossery in G-code would be just as easy
[21:25:06] <archivist> I rotate the item not the coordinates because the mill is small, the rotary hangs to one side
[21:26:37] <andypugh> Incidentally, the robotwars robot used Portal Axles based on Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs. They never broke.
[21:37:59] <tom3p> http://www.sturmey-archer.com/ wow i remember the stranded wire pulling the little chain to shift
[21:42:54] <andypugh> Clever devices.
[21:43:30] <tom3p> adapt one for a 'speeder' ( spindle rpm increaser ) ?
[21:44:28] <andypugh> It would probably work, the materials are top notch in them.
[21:54:08] <bluntz_> bluntz_ is now known as Bluntz_
[21:56:14] <Bluntz_> andy u on?
[21:57:21] <andypugh> Which Andy?
[21:58:06] <andypugh> Sanity check: My calculations show that a 6mm wide 5mm pich timing belt can easily take 750W / 3.5 Nm
[21:58:13] <Bluntz_> you
[21:58:31] <Bluntz_> your running gantry router right?
[21:58:37] <andypugh> No, not me.
[21:58:45] <Bluntz_> oh srry
[21:59:07] <Bluntz_> was just wondering about handling the cables
[21:59:11] <celeron55> 3.5Nm does sound reasonable
[21:59:16] <andypugh> I might still be able to convincingly bluff an answer though
[21:59:36] <celeron55> and i guess at quite high speed, it'll probably make 750W
[21:59:51] <andypugh> On reflection, yes, as they are having no trouble at lower speed with my 3.5Nm steppers on much smaller pulleys
[22:00:32] <andypugh> I am looking to swap the open-air gear drive on my milling head to belt drive.
[22:02:23] <Bluntz_> multi pulleys?
[22:03:33] <andypugh> No, just the first-stage from the motor to the input shaft to the gear box.
[22:03:55] <Bluntz_> was thinking drillpress parts
[22:04:19] <andypugh> It effectively is one.
[22:04:25] <Bluntz_> right
[22:05:13] <Bluntz_> brb
[22:05:42] <andypugh> I have decided that 2 off 24 tooth pulleys (38mm PCD) at 35mm centres will do the job. I am glad I spotted the error there before purchasing.
[23:11:00] <Bluntz_> andy you got a pic of your rig around?
[23:17:18] <andypugh> Anyone tried slotting on a CNC mill or lathe to make keyways?
[23:19:00] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:19:06] <Guest718> like? http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/keyways-12-28-07.html
[23:19:53] <Guest718> Guest718 is now known as skunkworks
[23:22:28] <andypugh> Ah yes, exactly like that, in fact
[23:23:02] <skunkworks> then yes. someone has. ;)
[23:23:07] <tom3p> needs a lever for the stroke, cranking the slide in and would put you to sleep
[23:23:22] <Bluntz_> oh thats your rig andy?
[23:23:54] <andypugh> No, That's John Kasunich's I am guessing
[23:23:55] <Dave911> >>My calculations show that a 6mm wide 5mm pich timing belt can easily take 750W / 3.5 Nm
[23:23:56] <Dave911> Sounds undersized Andy.... I would think a 12 mm wide belt would be closer... Gotta factor in drive life.
[23:24:15] <andypugh> I am going with 16mm
[23:25:10] <Dave911> Oh, I thought you said 6mm.. Make sure you use a big enough pulley also. Too small and he belts have problems...
[23:25:30] <andypugh> And I ordered 2 belts. However the calculations are all based on 8000 hours life, and that says 6.5mm is what is needed
[23:25:53] <andypugh> Well, with 35mm centres there is a limit to how big the pulleys can be
[23:26:13] <Dave911> 35 mm is really tight...
[23:26:36] <andypugh> Yeah. Originally it was a pair of gears.
[23:27:10] <Dave911> Compromises sometimes are better than what you have (gears ) Sounds like you have a spare belt in mind anyway ;-)
[23:27:38] <andypugh> I can stick with the gears, but only by dismantling the motor when it comes and machining the shaft. And then I would need to mill the keyway, and it is the milling spindle motor...
[23:28:09] <Bluntz_> did you consider chain?
[23:28:10] <andypugh> I am just not happy with gears running 3000rpm in air.
[23:28:38] <andypugh> I briefly considered chain, but it seems a bit fast.
[23:29:22] <andypugh> Small V-belt might work.
[23:29:46] <Bluntz_> sure but maintainence
[23:30:00] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/zaxis.JPG
[23:31:24] <Bluntz_> may save large bit breakage tho
[23:31:43] <Bluntz_> belts are a lil more forgiving
[23:31:52] <Bluntz_> and quieter
[23:32:05] <andypugh> Quiet was one of the things I was hoping for.
[23:32:38] <Bluntz_> small radius is hell on beltlife tho
[23:32:44] <andypugh> I have already converted the handfull-of-grease lubricated gear head to oil-bath
[23:33:14] <Bluntz_> maybe kevlar
[23:33:46] <Bluntz_> there are some timing belts that are
[23:33:54] <andypugh> As I said, I went through the calcs and it said 8000 hours life @ 750W 3000rpm. In practice it will be running a lot lighter than that most of the time.
[23:34:41] <andypugh> The belt is steel-wire reinforced.
[23:35:32] <Bluntz_> better than kevlar?
[23:36:05] <andypugh> Possibly, certainly higher-modulus
[23:36:52] <Guest478> how do you set x axis zero for css on lathe
[23:38:01] <andypugh> At the centre?
[23:38:15] <andypugh> It works off the current relative coordinates
[23:39:02] <Guest478> set g53 g10 command isnt there could not see it in the docs
[23:39:05] <andypugh> I set mine up for constant surface speed and constant feed per rev, it works very nicely.
[23:39:37] <andypugh> Normally I use touch-off in the manual screen.
[23:41:05] <andypugh> Either measure the part and the gap to the tool with calipers, or take a first cut, measure the work and then touch-off X to the measurement. I like to use G7 bit I think EMC is smart enough to use either radius or diameter mode,
[23:42:12] <Guest478> ri now machine is home and g53 x0 is there also, when g53 x0 should be center of spindle
[23:42:43] <andypugh> Yes, you need to tell the machine where the tool tip currently is.
[23:42:58] <andypugh> Which can be done in a number of ways.
[23:44:47] <andypugh> You might find http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_coordinates.html#cha:Coordinate-System instructive
[23:46:55] <andypugh> Ah, he left. I was about to explain about G10
[23:47:48] <archivist_emc> new users dont have lurking power
[23:47:54] <skunkworks> the first time you use the irc client on linuxcnc.org - if you click a link someone posted - it actually kicks you off
[23:48:04] <skunkworks> (only the first time)
[23:48:33] <andypugh> Once users become lurkers they are l-users.
[23:48:38] <skunkworks> with IE anyways
[23:54:27] <Bluntz_> go ahead andy explain please
[23:54:51] <Bluntz_> I got the handout..
[23:55:27] <Bluntz_> g53 so far
[23:56:08] <Bluntz_> I thought some kina auto sense was built in
[23:56:39] <andypugh> No, it works on the current X coordinate.
[23:57:36] <Bluntz_> so manually turn the screws to zero out?
[23:57:39] <andypugh> Normally you would use the touch-off buttons on the Axis screen, but I am pretty sure that just issues a G10 L2 P1 (or whatever) or a G10 L1 if you choose to touch-off with the tool-table option.
[23:59:43] <andypugh> No, jog to a known position (maybe a feeler-gauge away from your work.) Then hit the "touch off" button and type in the diameter plus thickness into the box. The Diameter (or radius) value will change on screen
[23:59:47] <Bluntz_> do you have markings for gaging on your z axis?