#emc | Logs for 2009-10-17

[00:11:17] <cradek> yay!
[00:11:21] <cradek> now you're unstoppable
[10:19:17] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[15:06:31] <jymm> Howdy
[15:19:18] <pcw_home_> doody
[15:21:00] <bjt-plasma> bjt-plasma is now known as jt-plasma
[18:43:30] <Guest865> Guest865 is now known as skunkworks
[18:54:39] <skunkworks> 1's run from the house to the garage.
[18:54:59] <alex_joni> nice.. do 0's get stuck?
[18:55:09] <skunkworks> heh
[18:55:11] <alex_joni> if they do, you need bigger wires
[18:55:15] <alex_joni> 0 > 1
[18:55:20] <skunkworks> they slid thru the 2 inch conduit nice.,,
[18:55:27] <alex_joni> it won't fit in here: =
[18:55:41] <alex_joni> ;)
[18:56:30] <skunkworks> sure am glad I have connections... I was able to get it from the local electric supply for 1.20/ft
[18:58:05] <alex_joni> conduit?
[18:58:17] <skunkworks> #1
[18:58:35] <skunkworks> 1awg
[18:59:02] <alex_joni> ah, I see..
[18:59:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to convert that to real units
[19:00:10] <skunkworks> I guess there is probably a metric equiv?
[19:00:34] <alex_joni> sure there is
[19:00:52] <alex_joni> e
[19:01:15] <alex_joni> 7.34 mm diameter
[19:01:40] <alex_joni> more common to express it in section: 42mm^2
[19:01:58] <alex_joni> that's a thick enough cable for welding.. up to 100A or so
[19:02:30] <skunkworks> yes - it is going to run the house.. (garage has a 200a service - house only 125)
[19:02:40] <skunkworks> well - it will be subfed with a 100a breaker.
[19:03:32] <skunkworks> needed to get the rest of the conduit in the ground before it froze
[19:03:49] <cradek> whee, jr likes my 2.25" face mill much better than the bridgeport did
[19:03:58] <alex_joni> yeah, that makes it easier to dig ;)
[19:03:58] <skunkworks> Great!
[19:04:00] <alex_joni> cradek: cool
[19:04:02] <cradek> faced steel with it dry, no problem
[19:04:03] <alex_joni> we need pics
[19:04:23] <cradek> now I'm slotting steel dry with carbide - never done it before
[19:04:43] <cradek> 3 flute carbide (looks like it was 4 originally, haha)
[19:04:50] <andypugh> Slotting with a slotter? Or milling?
[19:04:56] <cradek> end mill
[19:05:11] <andypugh> <pedant> Not slotting then :-)
[19:05:13] <cradek> junker end mill I found in a box, so I don't care if it breaks
[19:06:55] <skunkworks> cradek: what are you making?
[19:06:59] <cradek> andypugh: maybe it's regional? even 2 flute mills are sometimes called "slot drills" because you can cut full width with them (slot)
[19:07:59] <alex_joni> maybe andypugh was talking about a T-slot?
[19:08:02] <cradek> skunkworks: an old but nice jack my dad likes has a pin that used to fit up in the car body. new car doesn't have a hole, needs a slot
[19:08:02] <andypugh> Good point. I might have been being pedantic and wrong. Incidentally I think that they are slot drills because you can plunge-cut with them,
[19:08:22] <skunkworks> cool
[19:08:22] <cradek> andypugh: I've been pedantic and wrong before!
[19:08:59] <alex_joni> and you aren't now anymore?
[19:10:20] <andypugh> I am beginning to wish I had just bought a new stepper driver rather than try for a warranty replacement. 2 weeks downtime < £35
[19:14:02] <cradek> ouch
[19:20:25] <andypugh> It's only a hobby machine, but still.
[19:22:54] <AchiestDragon> grrrr thinks i am going to look at having to be able to get the right gas and wire to be able to weld stanless steel ,,.,,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teQXaqeEnl8&feature=related
[19:28:27] <mIreland> I am having a blast with this... a lathe is so simple to program that I can easily do it by hand, and us axis to verify my paths.
[19:30:13] <mIreland> I'm too dim to calculate circle moves tho. I will be seeking cam tools that are a match to my machine
[19:31:49] <cradek> mIreland: can we help with a circle problem?
[19:37:41] <mIreland> nah. they work like they are supposed to.. but it would be nice to sort out a minimalist but functional point clicky path calculator. for now i like constructing the progs from textfile. later, when i have confidence in the boilerplate i wil streamline the process
[19:39:02] <mIreland> proofing out the mechanics has had more of my attention, anyway.
[19:49:52] <BJT_Shop> * BJT_Shop is signing off for the last time
[19:50:06] <BJT_Shop> * BJT_Shop is being replaced with jt-plasma
[19:50:30] <BJT_Shop> this was my first computer to get Linux to run on and EMC
[19:50:38] <jymm> * jymm grabs the shutgun and a shovel
[19:51:09] <BJT_Shop> it ain't dead yet jymm
[19:51:48] <jymm> Was just gonna put it out of it's isery
[19:51:53] <jymm> misery
[19:53:18] <jymm> BJT_Shop: So, gonna turn it into a smoker or something?
[19:53:37] <BJT_Shop> that's not a half bad idea there jymm
[19:54:07] <BJT_Shop> mIreland: have you looked at the arc buddy and other g code generators on the wiki site?
[19:54:28] <jymm> BJT_Shop: What is it, an old full tower?
[19:54:58] <BJT_Shop> yea a P4 something or other
[19:55:04] <mIreland> nope thanx that mite be it...
[19:55:37] <jymm> BJT_Shop: Oh, then you don't want to do that, smokey goodness of PVC not a good thing
[19:56:31] <BJT_Shop> mIreland: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[19:56:59] <BJT_Shop> jymm: too small for a smoker but it might make a good smoker controller
[19:57:25] <BJT_Shop> if I can find a cost effective way to get the temperature into the PC
[19:57:55] <jymm> BJT_Shop: Ah, there ya go. How many temp probes do you need, 2?
[19:58:09] <BJT_Shop> yes, one for the cabinet and one for IT
[19:58:49] <BJT_Shop> thermister is ok for cabinet but thermocouple is a must for the IT of the meat
[20:01:57] <jymm> http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=15&zenid=02a147367619bd65e452b39a912e52c8
[20:03:18] <jymm> http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=112&zenid=02a147367619bd65e452b39a912e52c8
[20:03:31] <BJT_Shop> that's where I get my thermocouples from :)
[20:03:42] <jymm> oh, heh
[20:04:12] <jymm> the last link is a smoker theremometer
[20:04:27] <jymm> wrieless too
[20:04:37] <andypugh> Thermocouples are definitively not magic. All you need are the two different wires and an electrical connection between them at the point you want to measure temperature.
[20:05:02] <BJT_Shop> the magic is getting that info into your PC
[20:07:05] <jymm> BJT_Shop: http://www.web-tronics.com/indmmwrspcin.html
[20:07:37] <andypugh> Does the PC have USB? Look at the Phidgets range
[20:08:03] <BJT_Shop> yes it has a few USB ports
[20:08:42] <andypugh> http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=6&product_id=1124 for ambient (ish)
[20:09:24] <BJT_Shop> now that is cost effective
[20:09:25] <andypugh> http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=6&product_id=1051 for the thermocouple
[20:11:04] <andypugh> Ah, perhaps not the first one, as it isn't actually USB.
[20:11:33] <jymm> I say get one of these and just hack it... http://www.maverickhousewares.com/et73.htm
[20:12:01] <BJT_Shop> that is what a lot of smokers use
[20:12:23] <andypugh> Yeah, get a $5 webcam to OCR the display :-)
[20:15:02] <jymm> BJT_Shop: Buy two and hack em up... http://www.virtualvillage.com/digital-probe-30020c-max-temperature-thermometer/sku003820-026?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shcomp&utm_campaign=Digital%20Probe%2030020C%20Max%20Temperature%20Thermometer
[20:16:15] <jymm> WOW cheap probes... http://www.virtualvillage.com/diy/temperature/thermocouples-and-sensors/~category_id=USDY04003
[20:16:51] <jymm> DAMN, even the controllers are cheap
[20:17:30] <jymm> http://www.virtualvillage.com/industrial-temperature-controller-and-adjuster/sku001480-034
[20:18:49] <BJT_Shop> that is cheap for a temperature controller
[20:19:33] <jymm> and I think that was the "expensive" one too!
[20:19:38] <jymm> lol
[20:21:11] <andypugh> Yeah, there is a $35 one
[20:21:15] <jymm> OF COURSE *THE* Solar Control that *I* need is one of the expensive ones <rolls eyes>
[20:23:53] <jymm> Oh, they're out of Shanghai
[20:24:11] <jymm> shiping charges were cheap enough
[20:24:39] <jymm> Hey, they have a CNC section
[20:25:41] <BJT_Shop> your having way too much fun jymm
[20:26:26] <jymm> BJT_Shop: Why you say that? You never go eDumpster Diving?
[20:26:44] <BJT_Shop> any how shutting this computer down for the switch out
[20:26:55] <andypugh> I think I have one of their 3-axis stepper controllers.
[20:27:05] <andypugh> The odd name is familiar
[20:27:49] <andypugh> http://www.virtualvillage.com/cnc-micro-stepper-driver-board-mill---3-axis/sku007807-097
[20:28:06] <jymm> lot of cutters
[20:28:27] <andypugh> It's not too bad actually, and has an on-board pulse generator for jogging.
[20:28:43] <jymm> cool
[20:29:19] <andypugh> But I kept on blowing up the controller ICs, and couldn't find a cheap source.
[20:30:06] <andypugh> (TA8435H)
[20:30:08] <jymm> lol. Wel, don't do that!
[20:31:43] <jymm> Hmmm, is this good pricing? http://www.virtualvillage.com/3-x-aluminum-flexible-coupler-for-stepper-motor/skuS09101-003-3
[20:34:04] <andypugh> Reasonable: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&Ne=4294922322&Ntt=coupling&Nr=AND%28avl%3auk%2csearchDiscon_uk%3aN%29&Ntk=I18NAll&Ntx=mode%2bmatchallpartial&N=4294962535+4294653664+4294916970&Ns=stockPolicy_uk%7c1%7c%7cnew_uk%7c1&Nty=1&binCount=343&multiselectParam=4294962535%204294653664&selectSubRange=Flexible%20Shaft%20Couplers%20-%20Aluminium#breadCrumb
[20:34:43] <jymm> that url is way too long for me to muck with
[20:34:53] <andypugh> Let me try agian
[20:35:52] <andypugh> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=3643076
[20:36:19] <jymm> LawrenceG: Motorolal programming cables... http://www.virtualvillage.com/business,-retail-and-industrial/handheld-radio-accessories/programming-cables/~category_id=USBI03005
[20:39:56] <andypugh> I _think_ that Virtual Village is the same as Onlineseller68 on eBay
[20:39:58] <andypugh> http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/onelineseller_USA-Site_W0QQ_fsubZ19621942QQ_sidZ372635320QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322
[20:42:33] <jymm> LawrenceG: $50 for a dual band swr http://www.virtualvillage.com/digital-vhf&47;uhf-power-&amp;-swr-meter-for-yaesu-ft-8800r/sku001531-050
[20:54:47] <andypugh> BJT-Shop is dead, long live jt-plasma?
[20:57:14] <jymm> KILL THE IMPERSONATOR!!!!
[20:58:20] <jt-plasma> pulled the plug out LOL
[21:00:53] <jymm> lol
[21:01:19] <jymm> jt-plasma: DO IT AGAIN! DO IT AGAIN!
[21:05:02] <jt-plasma> I'm sure I will before it is all over
[21:05:17] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma listens to wall of voodoo
[21:10:25] <jymm> never hearde of them but that doens't mean anything. There ae lots of things I like, but have no clue on artist/title.
[21:11:42] <danny> hello
[21:12:29] <andypugh> welcome back
[21:13:37] <danny> I am hoping I can pick someones brain about configuring my hal file to the spindle control from CNC4PC model c6
[21:14:11] <danny> There is a sample hal configuration on the cnc4pc website but I do not know what to do with it.
[21:16:19] <danny> hello, is there anybody here today?
[21:16:27] <andypugh> Yes, sorry.
[21:16:37] <andypugh> Is it an actual HAL file?
[21:16:43] <AchiestDragon> was going to say no
[21:17:26] <danny> no, the sample given is to modify a hal file
[21:17:57] <andypugh> Is it a simple stepper and parallel port setup?
[21:18:02] <danny> I have my cnc router running on emc, I used the stepconf setup
[21:18:05] <danny> yes
[21:18:13] <jt-plasma> get a little hal basics under your belt with http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html
[21:18:43] <jt-plasma> and only modify the custom.hal file if you used stepconf wizard
[21:18:53] <andypugh> Well. first I would do a similar stepconf setup for your lathe.
[21:19:16] <andypugh> Wait, sorry, wrong end of the stick
[21:19:23] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma just figured out why that guy sold me the 12" cast iron table saw for $100
[21:19:43] <danny> I have been reading a bit of the integraters manual. I have a steep learning curve ahead of me.
[21:19:55] <jt-plasma> he had a B pulley on the motor and an AX belt :)
[21:20:49] <andypugh> That would work poorly
[21:21:25] <andypugh> Having looked at that CNC4PC C6 board I am left wondering "Why?"
[21:22:02] <andypugh> Why would you want to control spindle speed with step-up/step-down when PWM is so straightforward?
[21:22:50] <danny> Because I don't know any better. I have a Hitachi SJ200. I control it manually. I just want to control throuogh my gcode.
[21:23:32] <danny> Can I set up a hitachi VFD to use PWM?
[21:23:33] <andypugh> A perfectly sensible thing to want to do, I agree
[21:24:13] <andypugh> Not directly, probably. You would need to convert the PWM to an analogue voltage. In principle that only takes a resistor and a capcitor.
[21:25:27] <danny> OK, but if I already have the C6 board that converts a step signal to analog, I'll try to stay on this road.
[21:25:42] <andypugh> In practice you would probably want to go through an opto-isolator to protect the parallel port, then a constant current source to the resistor and capacitor, then buffer the voltage with an OP-amp. So you need 10 components rather than 2.
[21:25:59] <danny> The hal modifiaction sample is here. http://cnc4pc.com/Files/EMC2.txt
[21:26:07] <andypugh> Yeah, now you have it, you might as well use it. I am sure it will work fine.
[21:26:11] <danny> 10 components?
[21:27:09] <andypugh> I counted to 8 and then aded some for luck.
[21:27:45] <andypugh> OK, simplest for you would be to paste that HAL file into your custom.hal file (which I guess is empty?)
[21:27:53] <danny> I pasted the sample into my hal file and started emc. I was just trying to see if the pin would become active. I got an error so I removed the code.
[21:28:02] <danny> yes the custom hal file is empty
[21:28:14] <andypugh> Then edit it to suit the actual p-port pins you are using.
[21:30:08] <danny> I cannot tell if the sample hal code has enough info to call out the pin. Or do I need to add more code to call activate the pin. The code refers to pin 14, which is fine for me.
[21:30:11] <andypugh> Try just doing that and rebooting EMC2 and see what error message you get. I suspect that you will have to put the loadrt line in the main HAL file, but it would be simpler not to if it works in custom.hal
[21:30:36] <danny> I'll try it now.
[21:31:15] <andypugh> It is using pin 14 for speed up/down and pin 16 for direction I think.
[21:32:39] <andypugh> Sorry, Pin 16 is on-off
[21:33:01] <danny> pasting the code into custom hal still produced errors
[21:33:25] <andypugh> Just scroll right to the bottom of the error list and see what it says?
[21:34:25] <andypugh> You can paste the whole error log into www.pastebin.ca and pass us back the URL if you want.
[21:35:54] <danny> Thanks, I'm doiing it now
[21:38:31] <danny> http://pastebin.ca/1625916
[21:39:08] <andypugh> As I suspected.
[21:39:35] <andypugh> You need to move that loadrt stepgen line into the main .hal file.
[21:39:51] <alex_joni> andypugh: it is there
[21:40:06] <andypugh> There will be an almost identical line in there, but with one fewer parameters
[21:40:09] <alex_joni> that's why there's a duplicate component error message
[21:40:18] <alex_joni> right.. change that one
[21:40:22] <andypugh> "There can be only one"
[21:41:04] <danny> so do i remove the loadrt from custom hal?
[21:41:19] <alex_joni> you could use an unload stepgen
[21:41:31] <alex_joni> but it's better to remove the loadrt from custom hal
[21:41:38] <alex_joni> and change the one in the main hal file
[21:41:45] <alex_joni> just remember to not run stepconf again
[21:41:51] <alex_joni> it'll overwrite your changes
[21:43:55] <danny> What do I change in the loadrt line in the main hal?
[22:13:55] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[22:18:25] <andypugh> G92 applies to all tools and all coordinate systems. (I think, I am not sure about the last bit)
[22:19:04] <mIreland> I'm hoping for a tool table with everything zeroed off the front of my partoff slide on g54, then apply a z offset in g92 equal to the length of my part. looks like it should work that way, i just have to man up and trust my setup.
[22:20:11] <cradek> yes g92 and tool offset are separate
[22:20:18] <mIreland> i got worried when i cancelled (g92.2) and found that my centerline had moved... this is a lathe my centerline should never be overridden by g92
[22:20:19] <andypugh> What are you trying to do?
[22:20:40] <andypugh> You would G53 to absolute centreline, I think
[22:20:43] <cradek> if you changed X with g92, you bet it will move the centerline
[22:21:00] <cradek> I agree you usually don't want to do that
[22:21:03] <mIreland> this is probably operator error as always. if i made such a change it was an accident
[22:21:48] <cradek> IMO the tool offset should be the only one with an X component
[22:22:32] <cradek> I have mine set up so Z0 is turret face touching spindle nose, X0 is center of turret at centerline of spindle
[22:22:51] <cradek> this is the HNC's original coordinates if I understand right
[22:23:14] <cradek> then the tool offsets are easy to understand - measure how far it sticks out from the turret face, etc
[22:23:36] <mIreland> so, g54 is arbitrary, since the tool table handles x and z, but if i manually set g54 i can have one tool at offset x0z0
[22:23:52] <andypugh> You probably touched-off with a G92 active?
[22:24:10] <mIreland> likely. i was flailing a bit at first
[22:24:27] <cradek> g54 is only as arbitrary as any origin is - I like to set G54 Z0 to the right end of the part
[22:25:57] <mIreland> yes, but because there is always an offset active, whatever value g54 takes can have a compliment in the tool table
[22:26:19] <cradek> yes one of the g5x is always active
[22:28:43] <mIreland> i meant an h value. i expect to leave g54 active for all normal work
[22:30:09] <andypugh> I am considering setting up the other G5x systems to suit the steps on my chuck.
[22:30:48] <mIreland> but whatever g54 is, the tool table can be the opposite, hence it is arbitrary. whatever values i choose for all fixture offsets should be the same in x, and can wander in z, but g54z0 will be taken from front of cutoff slide.
[22:31:01] <danny> thanks again guys. I'm getting a signal I control now. I just have to play with scaling now. Cheers.
[22:31:09] <andypugh> And leaving G54 for touching off to workpiece-end like cradek suggested. I can't see any reason to not have them all have x=0 as the centreline, though.
[22:31:14] <mIreland> enjoy!
[22:32:31] <andypugh> I have G54 origin as the tip of my normal turning and facing tool.
[22:33:14] <andypugh> Take a skim, measure diameter, set X. Then the other tools all work
[22:33:40] <andypugh> T1 has zeros in the tool table.
[22:34:14] <andypugh> Better might be to have a probe tool with a tip as the origin.
[22:34:15] <mIreland> being arbitrary, g54x0=0.000 is fine i suppose. but i like your idea-- then you can read the relative position of tips in each position out of tooltable
[22:35:52] <andypugh> I do it that way because I don't have anything to measure gaps from the toolpost with, mainly. I can measure from tooltip to work or tooltip to chuck face with the digital calipers.
[22:36:18] <andypugh> But measuring from the toolpost the toolpost gets in the eay
[22:37:32] <mIreland> so, it works like expected and i have to just run it... and at any time a g92.2 jumps my zero to my chuck face, and x should never be overridden by a g92
[22:39:11] <andypugh> I don't use G92 at all, I change G54. I can see arguments for both, but I am going to start using G92 as a sneaky way to get the current X and Y into G-code parameters.
[22:39:28] <andypugh> And to do that I need to leave it clean.
[22:43:56] <mIreland> Is there a clean way to set g54 within the program? i had the idea they were set in var file, i assume by text editor
[22:44:44] <mIreland> dont answer i kno this...
[22:45:12] <mIreland> lights are coming on. jeesh learning is painful.
[22:49:25] <andypugh> It would help if the programming language was a bit less arcane. It makes assembler look legible. I think only raw hex makes less immediate sense
[22:56:22] <mIreland> okay, maybe i'm still confused. when i pick g54 from 'zero coordinate system' menu i see no change in displayed coordinates. I was kinda hoping to see x0z0
[22:57:32] <mIreland> either it isn't changing or something else is changing as well. How do i set g54 without ambiguity?
[22:57:42] <andypugh> Touch-off
[22:57:52] <mIreland> o rite
[22:58:16] <andypugh> I confess I am still fuzzy on parts of it.
[22:58:42] <andypugh> You can do it with G-codes too.
[22:59:16] <mIreland> one should always fear and respect zero in this line of work.
[23:05:36] <mIreland> that's better. g92.2, touch off, zero g54. tools should have all moved with respect to zero in tandem; now i zero and then offset z in g92 and start choppin.
[23:05:47] <mIreland> sounds simple enough.
[23:06:14] <mIreland> i think i've had a g92 offset active withou\g
[23:06:17] <mIreland> t
[23:06:29] <mIreland> my knowledge for some time....
[23:06:38] <andypugh> Easily done
[23:48:37] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[23:57:15] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away