#emc | Logs for 2009-10-13

[00:04:38] <skunkworks> we call that super speeding.
[00:06:02] <dmess> I call it flying LOW
[00:06:16] <andypugh> 7 hrs at Warp Speed is what? 800 miles?
[00:06:31] <dmess> 535 miles
[00:06:49] <dmess> its MOOSE country
[00:07:15] <dmess> and our thanksgiving long weekend
[00:07:44] <andypugh> I guess that is a lot more illegal there than here.
[00:08:33] <andypugh> But a 76mph average takes some doing for 7 hours anywhere.
[00:08:33] <dmess> and the lower end is just the cottagers... luckily only about 80-90 miles of that caca
[00:09:04] <dmess> ive done it in under 6 hrs
[00:10:22] <dmess> the machines i drive learn the road.. i just get in and hold on for the ride. ;)
[00:12:34] <andypugh> Hmm, is there a car-driving HAL module?
[00:12:53] <andypugh> Convert the road map data to G-code...
[00:13:20] <andypugh> Adaptive cruise control sensors for feed rate..
[00:13:48] <andypugh> <Yeah, time I went to sleep I think>
[00:24:14] <dmess> i have done this same trip well over 250 times in the last 22 yrs...
[00:26:38] <dmess> its IMPRINTED in the back of my retnas.. AND my sub consience... i have skimmed a moose .. my son says that was close... i asked how close...he says... HIS poop is on MY window.... ;)
[00:35:25] <Dave911> I narrowly missed a deer a couple years ago in Ohio. His back end folded my right mirror over as he ran in front of my truck. Way too close!
[00:35:27] <Dave911> Scared the crap out of me. I didn't even have time to hit the brakes.
[01:09:12] <AchiestDragon> got some pics of a bmw that hit one ,,, guy driving it said he hit it , and it vanished ,,, when you look at the car the only real damage looks to be a broken radiator grill ,,, but the pics show where the dear went when the bonnet is open ,, that the whole dear managed to sort of wrap itself arround the engine
[01:15:11] <dmess> seen that 1 goog thing it was a smallish deer
[01:15:25] <dmess> good
[01:15:42] <dmess> stuffed
[01:15:48] <AchiestDragon> well not for the dear i guess
[01:16:08] <dmess> for all
[01:16:17] <dmess> no fatality
[01:16:46] <AchiestDragon> or the mecanic that had to remove it i gues ,, dont know if that car was a write of because of it or not
[01:17:13] <AchiestDragon> but yea the close shaves do shake you up just as mutch as if you hit it
[01:20:57] <AchiestDragon> the ex rolled her car last week ,, no one hurt including her but shes been a bit shaky since
[01:27:07] <dmess> rolls are WIERD situations...
[01:28:06] <dmess> my last 1 was with a propane powered Suburban.. tanks in back as should be..... but
[01:30:14] <dmess> Black ICE and boom im facing the wrong way with 2 big rigs barrelling down on me... i hit the shoulder and the throttle.... going backwards still...
[01:31:04] <AchiestDragon> my last scrape was while reversing down a country lane ,, car slipped of the road edge into a dran gully and scraped a wall ,, got big scrape down the drivers door rear door and rear wing
[01:31:19] <dmess> missed the trucks but barrel rolled in backwards expecting the 2 tanks to blow me to heaven
[01:31:30] <AchiestDragon> but first scrape in 19 years
[01:31:49] <AchiestDragon> since last
[01:33:07] <dmess> the way i look at it is if you can walk away... ITS only a vehichle..( tool)
[01:35:04] <AchiestDragon> well with me driving that is ,, one of my ex bosses was on way to a job ,, over a hump back bridge car in front stoped but he couldnot till too late ,, car was brand new on lease that morning we had only just picked it up ,, total write off ,, only injury was i got a cut on my nose from the dash plastic when the airbags went off
[01:35:30] <dmess> fyi a moose would NEVER fit in the bonnet of a BMW.. but it WOULD decappitate it
[01:37:00] <dmess> WOW... and i thought MY 11 hr write off was the fastest.. NOT
[01:37:09] <AchiestDragon> only ever hit 2 animals ,, one a rabbit many years ago , and the other a bird srike on the window at 80mph
[01:37:29] <AchiestDragon> lucky that the window did not break on that one
[01:37:50] <dmess> where do you live??
[01:38:26] <AchiestDragon> chirk ,, on the engish welsh border , about 15miles south of wrexham
[01:38:31] <dmess> im driving from southrn ontario to northern ontario
[01:38:45] <dmess> canada
[01:39:23] <dmess> do you hunt?
[01:39:27] <AchiestDragon> theres quite a lot of wildlife arround here that gets on the road ,, phesants and rabbits most commanly
[01:39:32] <AchiestDragon> no
[01:40:07] <dmess> phesants are delish..
[01:40:20] <AchiestDragon> although theres qute a lot of phesant shooting in this aria
[01:41:17] <dmess> if they are on the roads.. there are many...
[01:42:13] <dmess> as long as the are shooting the males only
[01:42:35] <AchiestDragon> was talking to one of the farmers here ,, he releses 500 phesants a year for shooting ,, says most of them get shot each year ,, quite a lot of the london "snobs" come up to shoot them but they dont take them to eat them after
[01:43:28] <AchiestDragon> he says theres only so many ways to cook phessant and theres realy only so many times a year you want to
[01:44:10] <AchiestDragon> its cheaper than chicken to get hold of localy , but not keen on it eather
[01:45:14] <AchiestDragon> i dont object to hunting if its for food but for sport its a waste
[01:50:32] <dmess> well if the hunt semi-free range phesant... who knows what your getting... we use transplanted and bred birds
[01:51:43] <dmess> still a young transplant program.. so if you get 1.. you are lucky or good
[01:52:15] <AchiestDragon> they dont survive the winter here ,, so those not shot end up beeing food for some of the other wildlife arround here like foxes and badges
[01:52:28] <dmess> all birds are WILD
[01:53:05] <dmess> we have -40F and the live
[01:53:16] <dmess> they
[01:53:45] <AchiestDragon> there usualy all accounted for at the end of the year
[01:53:47] <dmess> in 6-7 feet of snow
[01:54:04] <dmess> really
[01:54:13] <AchiestDragon> aparantly
[01:54:23] <dmess> i think thats BS
[01:55:08] <AchiestDragon> they tag the ones they relese so if you shoot one you can usualy find where it came from
[01:55:14] <dmess> NO hunt is that controlled
[01:55:47] <dmess> are all bird tagged??
[01:56:16] <tom3p> you aint been fishin in england "NO, stand over THERE!", hunting is more anal
[01:57:13] <AchiestDragon> yea , thats nothing to the control there is on cows here ,, they have pasports and the paperwork for one is an horrendus task ,, since bse
[01:57:36] <AchiestDragon> and foot and mouth
[01:58:10] <AchiestDragon> all food stock animals have qute strict controls
[01:58:28] <dmess> its more crowded there i here... i'm used to my 45 square miles worth of lake.. or my little creek with just me
[01:59:43] <AchiestDragon> yea farms are rather compressed here some are only in 12 to 24 acers of land
[01:59:45] <dmess> you hold beef
[01:59:48] <dmess> ?
[01:59:54] <AchiestDragon> me ,, no
[02:01:48] <AchiestDragon> its a mix of beef , sheep and forestry arround here , as its a hilly / semi mountanus aria
[02:02:19] <dmess> we in canada hold up 90 % of our population in 10% of our space..... I come from the northern areas... so survival rules...
[02:03:44] <AchiestDragon> this aria is rural but your never more than 15 miles away from a town or vilage
[02:04:30] <AchiestDragon> and usualy not more than a mile away from the nearest house with a phone
[02:07:29] <AchiestDragon> still prefer it to city life ,, city comforts like 24/7 shops are not far away , like 15 mins drive at most , but the advantages of beein out into the countyside also
[02:07:59] <dmess> i could show you 450 miles without a house and limited cell service thru northern ontario OR quebec
[02:09:52] <dmess> im a boy some-one took out of the bush...but they didnt take the bush out of the boy...yet
[02:09:54] <AchiestDragon> yea i know , somehow though having a bad memory means i would usualy have to make quite a few trips to the nearest shop for things i forget ,,, the nearest here is like 100 yards away
[02:11:10] <AchiestDragon> its what your used to i suppse
[02:11:35] <dmess> been removed for 20 yrs
[02:12:39] <dmess> love/lust wife.. kids...ex-wife... situation...
[02:12:55] <AchiestDragon> the town i live in has about 1000 houses so not big for uk but big enough
[02:13:37] <AchiestDragon> ha yea that tends to put a damper on everthing
[02:14:27] <AchiestDragon> and usualy ends up costing a fortune in the process
[02:14:34] <dmess> 3 wonderful kids... it does have some Gold
[02:15:10] <AchiestDragon> only the 1 , but yea love him to bits
[02:16:10] <dmess> ya got to theses days
[02:16:53] <AchiestDragon> i read about climate change and wonder if he has a future
[02:17:26] <dmess> huh?
[02:18:12] <AchiestDragon> global warming ,,, the data does not look good
[02:19:00] <dmess> whom's data?
[02:19:25] <AchiestDragon> could be less than 60 years , and worse it could just switch in one season
[02:20:26] <AchiestDragon> the ice records from previous changes have shown that it was not a gradual change to a ice age but the change happend in the space of 1 year
[02:20:54] <AchiestDragon> ie it will reach a point and just flip
[02:21:28] <AchiestDragon> not good
[02:21:59] <dmess> OLD INDian says... the height of the black wasp's/honey bees is 12-18 inches over where the snow will land
[02:22:45] <AchiestDragon> but most of the beed in the usa have died out ,, there not doing well here also
[02:22:59] <dmess> my dad has 2 large hives about 20-24 feet up
[02:23:03] <AchiestDragon> beed / bees
[02:23:15] <dmess> bees
[02:24:16] <dmess> honey bees have been i caca for 2-3 yrs
[02:24:45] <AchiestDragon> yea
[02:25:28] <dmess> last yr sourthern ontario had near nothing
[02:25:52] <dmess> and MANY bees swarmed
[02:27:08] <dmess> not a good thing with the colonized african bees making their way up thu the states
[02:27:20] <AchiestDragon> true
[02:29:01] <AchiestDragon> but however you look at the current environmental problems it does not look good , and we can only hope the polatitions will actualy do something about it rather than take back handers not to
[02:32:00] <AchiestDragon> theres no justification saying well it gives say 200 oil workers a job when there would be 300 jobs created in a newer tech that would replace it , its not the jobs that are the issue its the fact that the investors would need to invest in develoment and traning rather than sucking the porfiets
[02:32:12] <AchiestDragon> profits even
[02:34:16] <AchiestDragon> from the workers point of view it may be a case of they work infornt of a diferent machine pressing a diferent button watching a diferent porduct pass them all day long for the same $$$ regardles
[02:34:26] <dmess> I advovated solar power 30 yrs ago... and demonstrated it... no $$$ ever came
[02:35:32] <AchiestDragon> no because the oil compnaies would rather you spent it on oil powered kit so they can sell you more oil
[02:36:03] <AchiestDragon> example in the uk to get a ground source heat pump fitted would require a bore hole
[02:37:23] <AchiestDragon> now in say finland to get a bore hole for one is a fraction of the cost of what they charge here as its compulsary on new biulds there so theres lots of companies set up to drill them , all make a profit and employ lots of people
[02:38:10] <AchiestDragon> here because its not compusary theres only one or 2 specialist companies doing it and they charge like 5 to 6 times the rate
[02:38:57] <AchiestDragon> so if you get a heating system in the uk it would be £2500 for a gas one , and £5500 for a ground source heat one
[02:39:39] <AchiestDragon> now £3000 of that is for the bore hole , that would be £1000 if the rates where the same as in finland
[02:42:14] <AchiestDragon> the £5500 would pay for its self in fuel over 5 years ,, but if it was made compulsary here it would drop to £3500 making fitting a gas system totaly unviable
[02:43:35] <AchiestDragon> as for jobs well rather than fitting gas pipes the workers would need training for the ground source systems but its still going to need the same total of workers so theres no loss in jobs
[02:44:16] <AchiestDragon> otherthan the gas company investors would have to invest in ground source and spend a bit on retraing there employes
[02:45:09] <AchiestDragon> no job issues only investors that would rather make a porfit selling toxic products than clean up there act so to speek
[02:46:02] <AchiestDragon> the smart ones will make the change the others will just go bust as they wont invest
[02:47:49] <dmess> THAT my FIEND is good info... my dad taught me to drill with ANYthing when i was 16
[02:49:53] <AchiestDragon> some tools are more fun to try to drill with than others ,, usualy the one in your pocket seems to give satisfing results if attempting the correct surface
[02:50:05] <dmess> my folks have a hole started... 575 feet hand drilled/punded by the previous old guy
[02:51:45] <AchiestDragon> sounds like that would make a nice pool
[02:51:45] <terrym> Is anyone out there?
[02:51:55] <dmess> dm
[02:51:57] <AchiestDragon> probablay
[02:52:09] <terrym> oh,
[02:52:10] <dmess> terry??
[02:52:23] <terrym> Yes, that is me.
[02:52:45] <dmess> a brother from texas??
[02:53:00] <terrym> I'm trying to tune the PID loops on a new CNC convertion.
[02:53:07] <terrym> I'm in FL
[02:53:37] <terrym> Anyone here understand PID loops?
[02:54:37] <dmess> AchiestDragon : bed time here.. be good
[02:54:41] <AchiestDragon> there is usualy
[02:55:01] <AchiestDragon> bed for me also soon
[02:55:51] <terrym> When the docs say to increase P untill it oscilates, does that mean chaning motor direction back and forth? or just veriing in the same direction?
[02:55:56] <AchiestDragon> terrym: yea should be someone who can help arround ,, ask and wait for a reply you will get an aswer when they read the scroll back
[02:56:33] <terrym> OK
[03:03:52] <dgarr> terrym: you'll know the its oscillating when it happens, have halscope showing ferror, be ready to stop the machine
[03:04:07] <dgarr> s/the/that/
[03:04:34] <terrym> OK, I've done that.
[03:05:30] <terrym> I've seen oscillations where the signal is always in the same direction, and also where the motor is driven back and forth.
[03:06:12] <terrym> That is, in the first case the motor speeds up and slows down rapidly, but always goes the same way.
[03:06:44] <terrym> Actually I was not looking at ferror...
[03:07:07] <terrym> I was looking at the pid output I think.
[03:09:24] <terrym> I'll take a look at ferror, and I'll leave this irc up for awail incase anyone else has something.
[03:09:42] <terrym> Thanks
[03:11:38] <dgarr> a good way to get help for tuning is pastebin a screenshop of halscope trace and identify the problems/conditions/etc.
[03:23:56] <tom3p> oscillate means shudder, shake, a violent thing... not pleasant at all... "be ready to estop" ( and reduce the P to 70 or 0 % of what you had so you're ot too close to that edge )
[03:25:38] <tom3p> 70 or 80 %
[03:27:10] <tom3p> the nicest it gets is a scary buzz (audible) without any errors
[03:28:12] <tom3p> the worst is the machine starts to walk around the floor like an off balanced washing machine.
[03:43:07] <terrym> Ah, right now I'm trying to tune the PID for a 4inch rotary table, very small grear motor, a bit under-powered.
[03:43:24] <terrym> So even when it does shack, it is nothing violent.
[03:44:36] <terrym> I see what f-error looks like now, it looks like an AM signal on the Oscope
[03:44:37] <terrym> .
[03:45:56] <terrym> shack==shake
[04:26:00] <tom3p> try it unloaded to see the cyclical error isnt mechanical
[05:23:31] <terrym> OK, it mostly works now, acurate to the 2nd decimal place, not too bad for angles in degrees.
[05:26:41] <terrym> With I and D set to 0, the lowest P that caused oscilation was 725, with a period of 0.16 sec., which I plugged into the formulas given in the integrators manual. This is the best it has worked yet, and possible good enough.
[05:26:47] <terrym> Thanks again.
[05:28:08] <terrym> Why do I always see my typing mistakes AFTER hitting enter?
[05:28:39] <terrym> Thanks and good night
[06:30:06] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[06:30:12] <MattyMatt> oh neat, I've found a use for these puny inkjet steppers. run in reverse they make good rotary encoder -> http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/20m/encoder.htm
[06:42:15] <tom3p> fenn: got opinion on ktechlab?
[08:11:47] <fenn> meh. might be useful
[08:12:11] <fenn> haven't touched it in years so my opinion isn't worth much
[08:14:51] <tom3p> any suggestions for simulators?
[08:15:50] <archivist> simulate what
[08:22:43] <tom3p> a few opamps , a couple filters, given a repetitive waveform input file
[08:23:08] <tom3p> looking at when a discharge occurs, to trigger a timer
[08:24:41] <tom3p> anyway, ktechlab as dloaded from ubuntu repos blows ( a full wave bridge on a 5V ac source is generating teravolts )
[08:25:00] <tom3p> crap 3am gnite!
[08:26:08] <archivist> just found faults on the website, not looking promising
[08:26:20] <archivist> but he went!
[08:26:21] <tomp> fwiw: QUCS seems better
[08:26:31] <tomp> now, bye bye
[08:26:48] <archivist> there is other stuff as well
[08:39:51] <archivist> tomp see also http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/FEL/ qucs is in there as well as all sorts of toys
[09:38:46] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:40:30] <micges_work> hi
[09:40:42] <pjm> good morning
[10:38:31] <jthornton> hmm http://www.linuxcnc.org/ must be down
[10:39:28] <archivist> does seem to be
[10:40:50] <archivist> * archivist posts some duct tape so jthornton can fix it
[10:41:00] <jthornton> :)
[11:07:12] <alex_joni> it should be fixed now
[11:07:17] <alex_joni> http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/2009/10/12/dreamhost-network-is-down/
[11:47:52] <jymm> WOW, that's bad for *SO* many reasons... a single core router, no redundancy, DataCenter ins't manned 24/7, No out-of-band management,
[11:50:52] <jymm> I blame alex_joni or hat
[11:50:58] <jymm> for that
[12:36:19] <Dave911> Hi guys .... if I have a rear toolpost lathe and want to buy a threading tool holder to cut external threads - what is best - a right hand tool holder or a left hand holder? I can run the spindle in either direction and cut on the top or the bottom of the cutter... what do you think ... or is this the wrong place to ask? I'm thinking a right hand tool holder with the cutter facing...
[12:36:21] <Dave911> ...down and the spindle running CCW (facing the chuck) Does this make sense...
[12:36:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hides in the hat
[12:36:51] <alex_joni> Dave911: it's just as good as any other place to ask ;)
[12:36:56] <jymm> * jymm fills the hat with "Foam-in-a-can"!
[12:37:16] <Dave911> OK .. thanks :-)
[12:37:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni enjoys it cozy and warm
[12:37:25] <Valen> they may well have had redundancy and it didn't fail over because it looked like it was working
[12:37:41] <alex_joni> Valen: that part might be ok
[12:37:44] <jymm> alex_joni: And UBER sticky! (No solvent for that stuff)
[12:37:49] <alex_joni> but the 20 minute drive there is not ok
[12:38:21] <Valen> depends, they may well have had OOB but if its only 20 minutes away and its a complex problem then just going there might be the fastest way to fix it
[12:38:38] <jymm> alex_joni: Did you know that stuff has an exothermic reaction?
[12:38:40] <alex_joni> Valen: right, but I would expect to have an technician there
[12:38:53] <alex_joni> jymm: that's why I said warm and cozy
[12:39:11] <Valen> all the data centers I've been to are unmanned
[12:39:26] <alex_joni> Valen: odd ;)
[12:39:29] <Valen> theres people there sure but they are on an as needed basis
[12:40:33] <jymm> Every one I've been to/worked at are manned 24/7
[12:41:25] <Valen> It depends I spose, if it was their data center or if they sublease it
[12:41:55] <Valen> it might well have been manned by the new kid but he sure as shit isn't going to start power cycling edge routers lol
[12:43:05] <jymm> Tha'ts what phones are for
[12:44:01] <jymm> NetAdmin's are usually manning 24/7, but they are available and can give instructions to the person who is.
[12:44:15] <jymm> aren't
[12:44:43] <Valen> like I said, for the sake of 20 minutes theres nothing like being there
[12:45:02] <Valen> I just get a little shitty when people make snippy comments about stuff without knowing the full story
[12:46:00] <jymm> Heh, they shouldn't be down 20 seconds, much less 20 minutes.
[12:46:31] <archivist> downtime is related to price you pay
[12:46:45] <jymm> Unless a fiber cut, which is out of your control.
[12:47:09] <jymm> archivist: Big deal, you get refunded $2000, but lost $10K
[12:47:44] <archivist> if you buy cheap hosting you must expect downtime
[12:48:16] <SWPadnos> I buy cheap hosting
[12:48:21] <Valen> so no system you have ever run has had a 20 second down time?
[12:48:50] <SWPadnos> no mission-critical system that you build should have downtime longer than an acceptable time for that mission
[12:49:00] <jymm> Valen: system and network are two different things.
[12:49:03] <alex_joni> certainly not the case here..
[12:49:21] <archivist> part of my stuff was down all weekend, because I was not here, no one pays me , no big deal
[12:49:22] <Valen> yeah, theres a difference between should and does though
[12:49:33] <SWPadnos> so when you're an ISP, you should have backups for everything, and either automatic failover or someone there to flip the switch
[12:49:51] <Valen> the problem is when you have a half failure
[12:49:59] <SWPadnos> yeah, those are annoying
[12:50:11] <Valen> when it looks up but isn't working
[12:50:39] <jymm> Valen: there are no excuses for core router failure, that's a lack of failover and reundancy.
[12:50:55] <archivist> * archivist pokes jymm for the ##php bot down time :)
[12:50:56] <jymm> (less a fibercut of course)
[12:51:00] <Valen> and you know every possible way they can fail?
[12:51:07] <SWPadnos> well, one excuse is that it is cheap hosting, and they had it fixed in a half hour :)
[12:51:35] <Valen> there is no possible way for it to fail, and for it not to fail over, given that failover may well require action on the part of their providers
[12:51:37] <SWPadnos> jymm, even a fiber cut shouldn't be catastrophic - there should be two feeds, from different providers
[12:52:07] <Valen> those sorts of things often take time to propigate changes through networks outside your own too
[12:52:09] <jymm> SWPadnos: I'm tlaking like when there's street construction and some idiot digs before checking.
[12:52:24] <SWPadnos> oh, a many-fiber cut
[12:52:38] <Valen> IE if you failover, it might take an hour or 2 for the routing changes to get out to the rest of the interwebs
[12:52:47] <jymm> LOL
[12:52:49] <SWPadnos> in that case, the demarc for each hard line should be in a different place :)
[12:53:16] <SWPadnos> they should use wi-fi, so there are no cables to cut
[12:53:22] <jymm> SWPadnos: shoulda coulda, not always the case.
[12:53:32] <Valen> I reckon they should use lasers, they are way cooler
[12:53:37] <Valen> lasers through open air
[12:53:38] <jymm> SWPadnos: NY and LA particularrly
[12:53:50] <Valen> and powerfull enough to fry any birds that get in the way
[12:54:08] <jymm> SWPadnos: 1 Wilshire is one example.
[12:54:11] <SWPadnos> or annoying children
[12:54:22] <Valen> you get in shit for frying children
[12:54:26] <Valen> even with mint sauce
[12:54:37] <SWPadnos> damn. time to move
[12:54:53] <Valen> you should come to my space station
[12:55:04] <Valen> I would call things like that "educational"
[12:55:11] <Dave911> Here is a link showing my choices regarding threading tool holders.... Looks like I need a right hand holder to cut threads towards the lathe chuck and let the chips come off the bottom of the cutting surface?
[12:55:12] <jymm> Valen: that explains SO much.
[12:55:13] <Dave911> Otherwise I would need to use a left hand holder and start at the chuck and cut away from the chuck - in that case chips would come off the top of the cutter... Hmmm perhaps I should buy both...
[12:55:15] <Dave911> http://www.carbidedepot.com/topnotch-application-threading.htm
[12:55:58] <Valen> Here we have "school zones" which are 40km/h during peak hours, even on 80-100km/h roads
[12:56:10] <Valen> so the kiddies get run over less
[12:56:22] <Valen> I reckon school zones should be minimum 80km/h
[12:56:34] <Valen> they are there to learn dammit
[12:57:37] <Valen> I think the handedness of the holders is to do with the handedness of the thread not the lathe so much
[12:58:38] <Valen> you just need to decide if your cutting internal or external threads
[12:58:46] <Valen> I believe our holder does both?
[12:59:31] <archivist> all depends which shoulder and direction, user decides
[13:00:26] <archivist> I have been known to make my own tip holders for threading
[13:04:26] <tomp> writing the XIlink WEB Pack dvd now, a 5.6G dload ( dload was a tarball ) using a DL DVD, hope it works ( 2h36min to go :/
[13:05:04] <tomp> archivist: thx for head up on that EDA suite, i'll look into it
[13:20:27] <archivist> tomp also gEDA set has a spice iirc
[13:26:00] <pjm> is anyone here using 7i43 I/O with EMC2?
[13:26:14] <pjm> I'm looking for a "pyVCP m5i20 HOSTMOT-4 test panel" but for the 7i43, before I write one myself
[13:40:05] <tomp> archivist: wow, the dbl layer dvd is done in < 1/2 hr, cool. yes i got gEDA, but writing all the spice files got me down ( lazy )
[13:43:24] <tomp> pjm: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?M5i20_Halvcp_Test_Panel
[13:43:52] <tomp> thx to anders wallin for that
[13:44:13] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[13:44:57] <pjm> tom3p yeah that is just what i need but for the 7i43
[13:46:35] <SWPadnos> sed could help there
[13:46:56] <SWPadnos> s/hm2_pci/hm2_7i43/g
[13:47:00] <SWPadnos> or something like that
[13:50:18] <pjm> yeah that is a good idea re sed ;-)
[13:50:21] <pjm> i will try it
[13:51:10] <tom3p> can you hack the 5i20 panel into 7i43?
[13:53:06] <pjm> i guess so, i will try
[14:33:04] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[15:04:29] <teh-JaR> hi
[15:05:00] <teh-JaR> can anyone tell me, if there is a more elegant solution than suiding halcmd ?
[15:05:19] <teh-JaR> otherwise emc just runs, when i sudo it
[15:05:53] <SWPadnos> you shouldn't need to have halcmd SUID
[15:06:25] <teh-JaR> i installed emc2 on knoppix 6, everything works fine, as long as i'm root, what can i do?
[15:07:12] <cradek> you need root permissions to insert and remove kernel models ONLY. this is done by emc_module_helper being setuid
[15:07:36] <teh-JaR> yes, and emc_module_helper is suid
[15:08:09] <cradek> well that's not quite true. you also need it to load firmwares (bfload, pci_write, pci_read)
[15:08:32] <cradek> that may or may not matter depending on what hardware you're using
[15:08:39] <teh-JaR> hm...
[15:09:28] <cradek> um, you could help us guess by telling us what error you get
[15:10:41] <teh-JaR> i see a . (i guess from the init script) and then RTAPI: ERROR: failed to map shmem
[15:10:55] <SWPadnos> ulimit
[15:11:30] <teh-JaR> means i just have to change the memlock and reboot?
[15:11:53] <SWPadnos> that might do it (though you don't need to reboot, just re log in)
[15:12:10] <SWPadnos> ulimit -a (something I don't remember)
[15:12:13] <SWPadnos> I think
[15:14:05] <teh-JaR> whoops... max locked memory (kbytes, -l) 64
[15:14:11] <teh-JaR> restarting x...
[15:16:38] <teh-JaR> still nothing more
[15:17:49] <SWPadnos> you need a lot more I think
[15:18:02] <SWPadnos> something like 20480 is what I'm seeing in the IRC logs
[15:18:07] <SWPadnos> (yes, 2M)
[15:18:51] <SWPadnos> err, 20M
[15:20:42] <teh-JaR> /etc/security/limits.conf says * hard memlock 8192
[15:20:59] <SWPadnos> try ulimit -l 20480
[15:22:23] <teh-JaR> i can only do so as root...
[15:22:33] <SWPadnos> reallly?
[15:22:38] <SWPadnos> -l
[15:23:25] <teh-JaR> ok i changed it in a root shell and su - <username> afterwards
[15:23:47] <teh-JaR> now the display variable isnt set :-D
[15:25:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:26:06] <teh-JaR> ah!
[15:26:07] <teh-JaR> works
[15:26:12] <teh-JaR> lots of thanks
[15:26:44] <teh-JaR> tell me, if i reboot, i should be able to run emc as a regular user, right?
[15:29:46] <SWPadnos> should be able to
[15:29:51] <SWPadnos> or not reboot, and just log in again
[15:30:04] <SWPadnos> the ulimit is applied at login, not at reboot AFAIK
[15:30:25] <teh-JaR> ok, i guess it's just the terminal i was using to run emc
[15:30:44] <SWPadnos> yeah, you have to log out completely, to the GDM/KDM/whatever screen
[15:30:51] <teh-JaR> it seems to be working, if i run it directly from the desktop
[15:30:58] <teh-JaR> i did init 2; init 5
[15:31:16] <SWPadnos> oh hmm, that should do it
[15:46:16] <Guest274> hello
[16:33:05] <Dave911> Valen: This is just for external threads.. Wow the numbers for carbide inserts for threading is about as confusing as possible. There are standards for normal cutters but when it comes to threading cutters there seems to be virtually no standard naming - although the cutters conform to certain types and the inscribed circles are standard so they are interchangeable if you can figure out...
[16:33:07] <Dave911> ...the naming scheme!
[16:33:08] <Dave911> I finally figured it out though and I bought a right hand holder that I will mount upside down in the tool turret. That will allow me to turn the spindle CCW and cut right hand threads and move into the chuck. Now to find some decent inserts that don't require a arm and leg or my first born. It is hard to believe how much some of these inserts cost. Ebay has some good deals though if...
[16:33:09] <Dave911> ...you can wade through the hundeds of listings. Also there are some huge Ebay store inventories that don't show up in simple searches..
[19:03:11] <motioncontrol> good evening. I use xemc, and have 4 decimal point position view on windows.Is possible visualization only 2 decimal point?
[19:04:09] <cradek> yes I'm sure you can make that change. you would need to recompile xemc.
[19:05:24] <motioncontrol> cradek, i change the ini file or you thing is necessary mofification the source?
[19:06:55] <cradek> source
[19:09:59] <cradek> sprintf(string, "X %9.4f", newX); etc
[19:10:28] <motioncontrol> cradek, ok thanks
[19:17:46] <aystarik> top
[19:17:59] <aystarik> ups.. sorry
[20:36:56] <andypugh> Can someone rmind me how to disable homing on the rotary axis? Considering it isn't even plugged in it is a trifle annoying to be told that I can't do MDI moves if not homed
[20:38:01] <archivist> I get a little peeved by that too
[20:38:09] <alex_joni> NO_FORCE_HOMING in TRAJ iirc
[20:38:13] <alex_joni> but it should be in the manual
[20:38:53] <archivist> it needs to be per axis not global imo
[20:40:24] <andypugh> Aye, I only want A to home instantly, not turn of homing altogether. That was the behavior, but I just re-stepconfed after swapping all my pins around.
[20:42:46] <cradek> that's easy to do - you set the homing velocities to zero
[20:43:44] <archivist> then you never reach a non existent switch.....?
[20:44:39] <skunkworks> It probably then assumes to home where it is.
[20:50:02] <cradek> don't make me url you
[20:51:25] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_homing.html
[20:51:59] <andypugh> I knew it was something simple like that. Setting the homing sequence to -1 was the wrong guesss :-)
[20:52:15] <cradek> hm, "homing type none" should probably say immediate or something
[20:52:33] <cradek> or "no search"
[20:53:57] <alex_joni> use current position
[21:08:03] <andypugh> Perhaps stepconf should put in a zero for axes with no limit switches?
[21:13:31] <sed_> in axis is there a quick way to set tool length offset or is it just file/edit/tools ?
[21:31:01] <skunkworks> ? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G10-L1-Set-Tool-Table
[21:31:54] <andypugh> Or the transient tool? (I have forgotten the G-Code) G43.1 or something?
[21:32:50] <andypugh> Or, I suppose, Touch-off into the tool table?
[21:45:08] <archivist> anyone done gas flow/viscosity through effing small holes .3mm dia 20psi and length of hole 9mm or .13mm dia length .9mm
[21:45:50] <archivist> air bt the way
[21:47:54] <oPless> nope, but it sounds that it might be pretty nasty
[21:48:01] <andypugh> No, but I think there are equations in machinery's handbook
[21:48:15] <andypugh> Very high Renolds number, at a guess
[21:48:57] <andypugh> http://www.lenoxlaser.com/calculator/orifice.asp\
[21:49:10] <andypugh> Looks good, they default to micron hole sizes
[21:49:15] <oPless> does anyone know of a safe fume-free polymer emulsion (think wood/PVA glue) that sets very hard?
[21:52:09] <archivist> that looks interesting andypugh , I drilled those sizes the last few days
[21:52:41] <andypugh> I confess I was rather proud of my Google-Fu there
[21:53:28] <archivist> better than the stuff I was finding
[21:53:48] <archivist> I see they dont mention length of hole
[21:54:18] <andypugh> I find putting "online calculator" (in the quotes) in such web searches pays dividends
[21:54:22] <archivist> cust is looking to lose 20 psi in 20 secs ish
[21:55:20] <andypugh> I seem to recall that it doesn't matter up to a point, and that point is when pipe friction matters. I suspect it matters at 9mm x 0.3mm
[21:55:47] <archivist> yup but thats still too large a hole
[21:56:07] <archivist> hand peck drilling at that size
[21:57:34] <andypugh> The calculations (and machining) would be far easier with a counterdrilled hole
[21:58:31] <archivist> I do counter drill for the smaller sizes
[21:58:51] <archivist> but fun getting inline
[21:59:32] <archivist> the bung im drilling has pips both ends that have to be removed
[22:01:33] <andypugh> Make a fixture to locate on the pips?
[22:02:52] <archivist> standard cheap 1/2" pipe bungs/blanks, the pip is about the size of the hole one is about to drill
[22:03:26] <archivist> smallest center drills are on the big side
[22:04:40] <archivist> drilled 7 holes this afternoon , no drills broken , now have to wait to see if they work
[22:06:09] <andypugh> At that rate I would have thought EDM was the way to go.
[22:06:37] <andypugh> Though there might be some mileage in a drill guide that locates on some other feature of the part
[22:07:35] <archivist> no the part has been riveted so outer shape is a bit off
[22:08:06] <archivist> I machine part of that off to get the nut off
[22:08:55] <andypugh> Build a homebrew EDM. You know you want to
[22:11:45] <archivist> I dont have the money
[22:12:41] <oPless> EDM?
[22:13:04] <archivist> electric discharge macining
[22:13:16] <archivist> spark eroding
[22:13:33] <oPless> like arcwelding in reverse?
[22:13:58] <archivist> yes
[22:14:04] <archivist> ish
[22:14:16] <oPless> oooh, google helps, wikipedia fails
[22:14:30] <oPless> looks a bit like a foam cutter
[22:14:54] <AchiestDragon> oPless: if its liquid form emulsion your looking for then your going to be out of luck as in order for it to harden it would give of some fumes the best you would get is one that gives of none toxic fumes
[22:16:04] <oPless> AchiestDragon, I'm surprised that the PVA glue I have actually appears to fit the requirement
[22:16:05] <AchiestDragon> best i could suggest is the hot melt glue stick type polomars , or polymorph that have verry low fume emmitions in use
[22:16:19] <oPless> I have polymorph
[22:16:21] <oPless> :)
[22:16:55] <oPless> unfortunately it doesn't really like having a dremel cutting it
[22:16:59] <AchiestDragon> yea got a 500g bag of polymorph here ,, not used it as yet though as not found any use for it
[22:18:31] <oPless> I was thinking about using it as a mould of sorts, but to make any kind of mould my shapes have to be hard enough not to warp
[22:19:03] <AchiestDragon> tries to remeber name of other stuff ,, miliput ,, usable underwater and safe for mounting living corral in a marine tank , sets like ceramic no fumes but not a plastic so may be a bit brittle
[22:19:12] <oPless> and my shapes are made out of card/thick paper at the moment
[22:19:28] <oPless> * oPless recognises the name
[22:20:09] <AchiestDragon> its like 2 sticks of clay that you mix together and form , it sets after there worked together
[22:21:21] <andypugh> Aye, Milliput is good stuff, machinable too
[22:21:29] <AchiestDragon> sets even under water is not toxic and hard like a clay pot once set
[22:21:32] <andypugh> They sell it on eBay.
[22:21:51] <andypugh> (They sell it other places too, but eBay is open now)
[22:21:55] <AchiestDragon> may be a bit brittle though
[22:22:54] <andypugh> Not that I have noticed
[22:23:42] <oPless> hmmm reading quickly about it, it might be the kind of stuff I'm looking for
[22:23:52] <AchiestDragon> some of the hot melt glue sticks may be suitable ,, they do a pva style one and some other ,, some are good enough to machine , my not be totaly fume free and toxic levels depend on type of glue and tend to be reletivlyt safe
[22:24:41] <AchiestDragon> they are simlar to the polimorph with a higher melting temp
[22:26:17] <AchiestDragon> some 2 part epoxy resins may be usable but some fumes and verieing toxitacy on the type ,, avalble with properties that are comparable with dicast alli
[22:26:54] <oPless> ahhh that's where I've heard it from :D
[22:27:23] <oPless> it used to be a type of car repair epoxy putty
[22:27:32] <AchiestDragon> often avalable for reparing broken castings on cars yea
[22:28:12] <AchiestDragon> miliput is a simlar sort of thing to that but theres other types some set to give you a abs type substance
[22:29:33] <AchiestDragon> by totaly safe i have to ask whats it going to be used on ,, safe as in constant skin contact or safe as for toy paint that may get chewed or eaten
[22:30:22] <oPless> base material for an animatronic model
[22:30:59] <oPless> it'll have a metallic chrome finish eventually (work area permitting)
[22:31:10] <AchiestDragon> then would suggest some 2 part epoxy that sets to about the strenth and properties of about abs
[22:31:47] <oPless> but I don't currently have much in the way of work area where I'm living at the moment
[22:32:47] <AchiestDragon> neather do i
[22:33:59] <oPless> AchiestDragon, pm :)
[22:56:48] <andypugh> Consider Fimo too, oven-hardening modelling clay
[23:03:30] <oPless> night chaps
[23:06:01] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:11:52] <dmess> hi all
[23:12:07] <andypugh> hi
[23:12:17] <AchiestDragon> hi
[23:19:36] <andypugh> Do you think i-pink lost interest in the project?
[23:28:21] <andypugh> Ooh! Nice! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KEARNS-S-TYPE-HORIZONTAL-BORING-MACHINE_W0QQitemZ390105364319QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item5ad417775f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_500wt_956
[23:28:42] <andypugh> My dad has one of those, pretty much a universal machine if you are patient.
[23:30:03] <andypugh> 4 axis manual machine, it would make an interesting conversion.
[23:31:08] <andypugh> (The 4th axis is a radial slide in the chuck, I have always wondered about the mechanism, but assume a differential is involved)
[23:42:57] <andypugh> Whoah! I found a video of the S-types Daddy
[23:42:59] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jGlNH0aW88