#emc | Logs for 2009-10-12

[00:00:13] <Himanshu12> no no.. i dont knwo pwm cycles. i mean i need that much speed
[00:00:17] <Himanshu12> at the max.....
[00:00:32] <SWPadnos> 100 kHz is not a speed when you're talking about PWM
[00:00:39] <Himanshu12> :(
[00:01:15] <Himanshu12> ok let me explain you ... right now i am using NextStep Stepper Drive.. with 256 micro stepping
[00:01:32] <jymm> SWPadnos:
[00:01:32] <Himanshu12> and it can drive at 200kHz .. i dont need 200khz speed
[00:01:43] <SWPadnos> servos don't have steps like that
[00:01:48] <Himanshu12> but around 100khz step rates..
[00:01:55] <Himanshu12> i know servo dont steps like that
[00:02:01] <Himanshu12> it need 3-6 pwms
[00:02:02] <SWPadnos> jymm,
[00:02:14] <jymm> SWPadnos: did you get the flux capacitor?
[00:02:16] <Himanshu12> MOSFET or IGBT.. but i was talking abt comparision
[00:02:19] <SWPadnos> jymm, no
[00:02:23] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:02:28] <jymm> SWPadnos: Finally... http://www.geekalerts.com/back-to-the-future-flux-capacitor-replica/
[00:03:07] <jymm> If you missed that, yo missed the others...
[00:03:23] <jymm> NOW we're talkin.... 38,000,000 Candlepower flashlight http://www.geekalerts.com/maxblaster-the-handheld-sunbeam/
[00:03:26] <andypugh> Himanshu12: Also look at http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i43ds.pdf
[00:03:33] <andypugh> That's $79
[00:03:45] <jymm> SWPadnos: Amazon sells Electronic components, including surface mount.
[00:03:54] <jymm> SWPadnos: http://www.geekalerts.com/transistor-cufflinks/
[00:04:03] <SWPadnos> jymm, I saw the links, but didn't get one ...
[00:04:30] <jymm> SWPadnos: Well, I din't mean order it
[00:04:45] <SWPadnos> I get that now
[00:04:51] <jymm> =)
[00:06:01] <Himanshu12> hey SWPadnos, andypugh , can you explain me how emc communicate with Pluto servo, i mean by PWM , or Control words or any other methods??
[00:06:31] <SWPadnos> control words which are trasnferred through the parallel port
[00:06:35] <andypugh> I thought it used magic?
[00:06:44] <Himanshu12> :))
[00:07:12] <Himanshu12> ok that means choice is right.. i mean i get good pulse rate even if the latency his higher right??
[00:07:49] <jymm> andypugh: That's a really stupid answer. Especially when you know it's voodoo, not magic. Eeeeeeeesh
[00:07:50] <Himanshu12> i tried to reduce latency but the minimum i got was 9000 ...
[00:07:58] <andypugh> (I need to talk less, people keep popping in here and because I can't keep my mouth shut they think I know what I am talking about. I am one of the newbiest newbies here)
[00:08:18] <andypugh> What PC architecture?
[00:08:40] <Himanshu12> sounds funny but it was latest CORE2DUO 2.2 ghz :))
[00:09:03] <Himanshu12> and you know more funny thing is my old P4 delivers the almost same
[00:09:35] <andypugh> I got mine down from 17,000 to 2,500 by using a SMP aware kernel. You should be able to dedicate a whole core to the RT stuff and see a similar improvement
[00:09:46] <Himanshu12> p4 is 1.8 GHZ give me latency 9500-14000 and core 2 duo 9000-1300
[00:09:54] <SWPadnos> there are experimental SMP kernels that could help, and there are other things that may also help (like using ext2 so you don't have kjournald running)
[00:10:15] <Himanshu12> which pC you are using ANDY
[00:10:15] <SWPadnos> and of course, if you can run without X and network drivers, that's even better :)
[00:10:35] <Himanshu12> without X??? are you serious SWPandos??
[00:10:50] <jymm> run x remotel
[00:10:56] <jymm> run x remotely
[00:11:14] <SWPadnos> Himanshu12, if you have any budget at all, I would get the Mesa 7i43 rather than the pluto, the Mesa cards are actually designed for industrial environments, whereas the pluto is a hobby board with no protection whatsoever
[00:11:23] <Himanshu12> sorry not my cup of tea i am in linux enviroment since 1 month only
[00:11:28] <andypugh> I have a rather old dual Xeon server
[00:11:30] <SWPadnos> yes, without X or network is best
[00:11:53] <andypugh> Have a look at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_With_Custom_Kernel
[00:11:56] <SWPadnos> but that's awfully hard, since you can't use the graphical interfaces
[00:12:03] <SWPadnos> there are text only ones
[00:12:18] <SWPadnos> oh, I forgot to mention that the 7i43 is only about $10 more than the Pluto
[00:12:21] <andypugh> You can skip straight from section 1 to section 2.3 and just use the binary builds.
[00:12:24] <AchiestDragon> X as in xorg /xwindoes not x axis incase of confusion
[00:12:27] <Himanshu12> WHICH OS u are using andy for 2000 latency and u SWPANDOS??
[00:12:49] <SWPadnos> I made a HAL-only application for an embedded system
[00:13:09] <Himanshu12> let me check 7i43
[00:13:11] <SWPadnos> that machine usually had 200 (yes, two hundred) latency, sometimes spiking to 2000
[00:13:24] <Himanshu12> GREAT....
[00:13:27] <andypugh> Ubuntu, live-cd install then the patches in that link. Dedicatiing a whole cpu to the RT is an enormous help
[00:13:41] <SWPadnos> more or less the same CPU as you, and using an Intel ICH7-based motherboard
[00:13:46] <SWPadnos> err, ICH9
[00:14:02] <SWPadnos> which is the slowest chipset available when it comes to PCI bus transfers
[00:14:23] <Himanshu12> wht you guys think abt ATOM??
[00:14:32] <SWPadnos> with network, ext3, and X, the latency numbers would get to 16000
[00:14:41] <Himanshu12> i got one small CUTE BOARD 7x7 inch only
[00:14:46] <jymm> Himanshu12: They're nice, so are molecules
[00:14:59] <SWPadnos> Atom 330 is pretty good, but there's a networking bug in kernels prior to 2.6.30
[00:15:10] <jymm> SWPadnos: nice to know
[00:15:29] <SWPadnos> (for most ATOM boards, which are generally based on the ICH7 or 9 or whatever, and with the Realtek network driver)
[00:15:31] <Himanshu12> hey i am interested in that 200 latency .. do you have documentation online??
[00:15:35] <SWPadnos> no
[00:15:59] <SWPadnos> like I said, I used ext2 instead of ext3, and turned off X and networking
[00:16:02] <andypugh> Try the SMP build, I was very pleased
[00:16:12] <SWPadnos> you probably can't do that, so it's not really relevant for you
[00:16:25] <Himanshu12> hmmm you are right....
[00:16:33] <Himanshu12> SMP build you meann lenny??
[00:16:43] <andypugh> No, Hardy
[00:16:52] <SWPadnos> luckily, it does tell us that with the right changes to certain kernel drivers, "regular" machines might get to that stage eventually
[00:17:03] <SWPadnos> www.linuxcnc.org/experimental/
[00:17:19] <SWPadnos> there are SMP builds there, but as the URL says, they're experimental
[00:17:24] <andypugh> All I did was download the .deb files in that link and blindly follow the instructions
[00:17:26] <SWPadnos> so don't ask for support ;)
[00:17:48] <andypugh> As in this link http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_With_Custom_Kernel
[00:17:53] <SWPadnos> (or at least, try things on the stock RTAI kernel before asking for support)
[00:18:05] <andypugh> But only step 6.3 onwards. It took about 10 minutes
[00:18:14] <jymm> Cool, I got a graphing calc for $1 =)
[00:18:29] <Himanshu12> hmmmm
[00:19:09] <andypugh> I figured if I messed up I could always just reinstall from the LiveCD
[00:19:52] <Himanshu12> but you know guys i must drop ubuntu coz it gives sexy problem with RTAI, mmy screen get striped horizontally and vertically when i boot with RT kernel
[00:20:17] <Himanshu12> with generic kernel it just works fine...
[00:20:21] <L84Supper> anyone have experience with EMC on RTAI kernels as host along with XP running in Virtualbox?
[00:20:27] <SWPadnos> generic 8.04 kernel?
[00:20:39] <Himanshu12> yes
[00:20:49] <Himanshu12> i think both kernel version is different..
[00:21:11] <SWPadnos> did you try installing from the 8.04 CD, then installing EMC2 and the RTAI kernel?
[00:21:26] <Himanshu12> yes i do the same..
[00:21:33] <Himanshu12> i downloaded 8.04 cd
[00:21:46] <Himanshu12> than from the install script i installed EMC2 with RTAI
[00:22:06] <SWPadnos> I think there are a couple of driver packages that don't get installed when you install from the EMC2 liveCD, even though we do have EMC2/RTAI compatible builds of them
[00:22:07] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:22:26] <SWPadnos> what motherboard/video chipset?
[00:22:36] <andypugh> Too late for me chaps.
[00:22:41] <Himanshu12> silliest quesiton of the day .. how to save this chat??? coz i want to try andy's 2000 latency SMP
[00:23:00] <SWPadnos> I had a problem like that when using an ECS GOAL3 motherboard, but it more or less went away when I reduced the resolution to 1280x1024
[00:23:11] <jymm> logger_emc: bookmark
[00:23:11] <jymm> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-10-12.txt
[00:23:11] <SWPadnos> SMP won't get you that far on its own
[00:23:27] <jymm> Himanshu12: ^^^^^
[00:23:27] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[00:23:46] <Himanshu12> i tried it all .. i mean i stepped down to 1024X768..
[00:24:04] <Himanshu12> and OLD kernel works fine so i thought its kernel stuff and i should not go inside it ;)
[00:27:48] <Himanshu12> SWPadnos one personal question, are you software guy or electronics??
[00:28:05] <jymm> yes
[00:28:22] <jymm> electronics > software (iirc)
[00:28:58] <Himanshu12> hmmmmmm....really goood knowlege.. thanks SWPadnos, thank you very much....
[02:15:17] <tom3p> 'i tried it all .. i mean i stepped down to 1024X768.. ' does that mean he hasnt tried vga driver?
[05:25:21] <Spida_> Spida_ is now known as Spida
[08:27:25] <oPless> * oPless goes to work (!)
[09:23:31] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:23:45] <micges_work> hi
[14:03:31] <AchiestDragon> hmmm http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/voyager.jpg makes for an interesting test file in blender format file size is 11mb
[14:04:10] <AchiestDragon> export to autocad dfx it only exports 9/11ths of it and results in a 75mb file
[14:05:10] <AchiestDragon> unfortunatly not able to manage to do anymore with it as altough i can load and view it in autocad seems if i do anything with it autocad crashes out with out of memory errors
[14:07:47] <AchiestDragon> i was trying to ensure that its posible to do a blender to acad to mastercam to nc workflow path with a complex file to see if theres any issues that cause problems
[14:08:35] <AchiestDragon> seem to have fund the first issue by the looks of things rather sooner than i was hopeing for
[14:10:12] <archivist> think stl format probably not dxf
[14:11:18] <AchiestDragon> maybe ,, but i would normaly post edit the conversion in autocad before loading it into mastercam
[14:12:24] <AchiestDragon> the blender to 3ds export only resulted in a 22byte file that failed to manage anything
[14:13:00] <AchiestDragon> will try stl
[14:16:27] <AchiestDragon> stl results in a 84 byte file and acad wont inport that
[15:54:05] <L84Supper> anyone here worked much with CLARAty, OpenJAUS or OROCOS robotics software?
[15:58:14] <alex_joni> L84Supper: not much
[16:01:59] <L84Supper> some of the robot software applications appear to have been developed by philosophers vs engineers
[16:02:45] <L84Supper> but maybe it's just the PR
[16:07:57] <tom3p> i need to program some PEELs, any suggestions for tool chain? ( dloading ghdl,gtkwave & xilink tools now, seem like overkill for a 12 gate 22cv10 )
[16:27:00] <SWPadnos> tom3p, do you have a suitable programming device?
[16:30:55] <tom3p> yes, i make the chips with old JED file now, need to amke a small change
[16:31:05] <SWPadnos> ah
[16:31:13] <SWPadnos> I googled a little, but didn't turn up much
[16:31:38] <SWPadnos> you may need to find some old vendor software and run it in wine or something
[16:31:39] <tom3p> hey its a 5 GIG dload ( and i did this before and misplaced the dvd )
[16:32:04] <tom3p> to burn?, yeh a windows app
[16:32:08] <SWPadnos> do the Xilinx free tools support old devices like that?
[16:32:31] <SWPadnos> they usually drop old stuff and don't add really new stuff for the web tools
[16:33:05] <tom3p> dont know yet ;) ( the 22cv10 is now atmel atf22v10b )
[16:33:18] <SWPadnos> they still make them?
[16:33:20] <SWPadnos> wow
[16:34:03] <tom3p> but more than anything eles, i want to know how to do it and read the PSF file ( i could use discrete gates for the thing if neccesary )
[16:34:34] <tom3p> read the PSF, i mean, make sense of the PSF
[16:35:39] <tom3p> its just text but i'd like to know what the operators were # fred # !ethel ; gimme a clue is # or or and
[16:35:59] <tom3p> or noneoftheabove ;)
[16:36:01] <SWPadnos> heh - no idea
[16:36:31] <tom3p> well dload is in background and there plenty else to do, thx
[16:36:55] <archivist> current from Lattice as well
[16:37:49] <tom3p> and ICT's PLACE but may as well boot windows then
[16:38:02] <tom3p> reading PLACE book now
[16:43:32] <tom3p> haha ubuntu's menu editor wont run from menu... run it from terminal 'sudo alacarte'
[16:44:06] <SWPadnos> right-click the menu, select "edit menus"
[16:46:30] <tom3p> doesnt work, had to sudo
[16:46:46] <SWPadnos> that's odd
[16:48:48] <tom3p> checking, yes, silence, nothing happens, i ran in window to see effect, thats why i did sudo
[16:49:01] <tom3p> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/tomp/.config/menus/applications.menu'
[16:49:23] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[16:49:41] <tom3p> no biggee, whats the command line way to pass pwd to 'sudo alacarte' ?
[16:49:46] <SWPadnos> if you ever ran the menu editor as root, then ownership of the file may have been changed to root
[16:49:58] <SWPadnos> which would prevent you from running it as yourself
[16:50:22] <tom3p> i can chg perms , i'll try
[16:50:24] <SWPadnos> if you sudo chown tomp:tomp that file (and any others that seem likely), you should be able to run it from the menu agail
[16:50:26] <SWPadnos> again
[16:53:27] <archivist> hmm got any spare cash ebay 150378572320
[16:56:59] <AchiestDragon> well not enough for 2 anyway ,, would be struggling fnding the £69,999.99 plus carrage for the one i need first
[16:57:37] <AchiestDragon> yippee found another penny ,, what to do now
[16:59:13] <AchiestDragon> dam was just a reflection of the first one
[17:00:31] <AchiestDragon> shame they dont have a any offers button
[17:00:40] <AchiestDragon> :)
[17:10:01] <AchiestDragon> if i could find a way to get this in my 6foot square workshop , then think it would be ideal for me http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bridgeport-turret-milling-machine_W0QQitemZ200393363032QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item2ea8600e58&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[17:11:22] <AchiestDragon> but the dorway to it is only 2foot 6 wide even if i dismantled the macine first i would not be able to get the castings in though the door
[17:11:51] <archivist> remove wall
[17:12:28] <AchiestDragon> removing the door frame would give another 4" but would not be able to remove the wall
[17:12:57] <AchiestDragon> think the bed travel may be limited in use also by walls in way of it
[17:14:09] <AchiestDragon> would be easyer to get it lowered into the garden then build a shead arround it ,, but think planning may have something to say about having a shead in the front garden
[17:15:15] <AchiestDragon> all for the lack of a garrage ,, would go quie well inside a garrage and be worthwile doing a cnc conversion to also
[17:16:15] <AchiestDragon> not shure on the weight of those , but often see them on ebay for not a lot of £
[17:16:59] <AchiestDragon> anyone know the space requirements for one
[17:17:08] <AchiestDragon> hight widht and depth
[17:17:50] <AchiestDragon> seriously if i can get one to fit then will go that route
[17:18:59] <AchiestDragon> seem to rember they need about 8foot square though but its been many years since i used one
[17:21:09] <AchiestDragon> may arranging to view it and taking a tape mesure with me its only about 15 miles away
[17:21:15] <geo01005> For anybody curious about my EDM stepper motor dilemma from a week or two ago: I got the new micro stepping driver(driven at 1/256th step) and the .9 degree stepper at it seams to have solved most of my problems.
[17:21:36] <geo01005> Rather than the old 1/8th step driver and 1.8 degree motor.
[17:21:36] <AchiestDragon> kool
[17:25:09] <geo01005> I should mention that that is probably not the typical result with most CNC motion controls. This particular application has very low friction and stiction.
[17:27:26] <AchiestDragon> just emailed him asking aobut the size and weight of the machine , will have to mesure up my workshop space properly now
[17:33:13] <tom3p> geo01005: 102400 steps per rev?
[17:33:44] <geo01005> yep.
[17:34:19] <geo01005> rather than 1600.
[17:34:59] <geo01005> Of course I know the motor probably dosen't move every step now. But it is so small that I can't measure it with the tools I have now.
[17:36:12] <tom3p> smaller than detectable sounds good,whats the screw pitch?
[17:38:18] <geo01005> there isn't a screw, just a gearbox to a drive wheel.
[17:38:31] <geo01005> But the effect pitch is .51 inches/rev.
[17:41:24] <tom3p> !5 millionth per step
[18:03:16] <geo01005> Yeah, I'm sure that it isn't moving that little.
[18:03:30] <geo01005> But it is much better than .0003"
[18:10:20] <issy> hi all
[18:12:38] <Dave911> geo01005: Are you using EMC2 to control the EDM?
[18:12:50] <geo01005> just the Hal
[18:13:23] <Dave911> Is this a wire edm - a coiled wire etc?
[18:13:36] <geo01005> can't say much about that.
[18:13:54] <Dave911> I guess I should say through wire - uncoil and coil?
[18:14:34] <geo01005> I suppose I should just say that it is a manufacturing process that is not a machining process.
[18:14:37] <Dave911> confidential stuff?
[18:14:50] <geo01005> Yeah, sorry. I would love to talk about it.
[18:15:34] <Dave911> NP I understand. A guy wants me to get a wire EDM working for him and the controls are really really old but the machine is in good shape etc
[18:16:06] <geo01005> Sounds like a fun project.
[18:16:41] <geo01005> perhaps tom3p is the person to talk to.
[18:17:05] <andypugh> Does EMC handle negative velocity requests? I can see persuading the trajectory manager to back off to maintain the gap might be non-trvial
[18:17:26] <Dave911> If I get to the point where I have to remove and replace the controls - I'll have to do some searches...
[18:17:26] <geo01005> no it dosen't.
[18:17:28] <Dave911> I'm not sure how much effort he wants to expend to get it going, but we will see...
[18:17:29] <Dave911> tom3p - ok thanks for the hint!
[18:18:42] <Dave911> Sounds like there might be a loop inside a loop setup - ala cascaded PID loops to make that work... Pretty deep hal stuff
[18:19:07] <andypugh> So wire EDM might be tricky, but sinking should be OK as you can do that with a servo controller block.
[18:19:29] <geo01005> yeah, that sounds right.
[18:20:51] <andypugh> Bah! I only came donwstairs to pick up a datasheet, and I got sucked in...
[18:21:38] <Dave911> Well we'll see how that goes.
[18:21:40] <Dave911> andypugh: It happens .... Wear very dark sunglasses to block out the screen .... ;-)
[18:25:24] <Dave911> In general..... Are there any pitfalls that should be avoided when doing really odd Hal configurations?
[18:25:26] <Dave911> Is there anyway to tell before hand what will and will not work? Such as - you will run out of resources when you do more than X Pid loops etc or have more than X pins..
[18:25:27] <Dave911> I think the # of PID loops is documented someplace but there must be more limitations.... or not ?
[18:28:54] <cradek> the pid manpage tells about the limit. you can change the limit with a rebuild.
[18:37:46] <Dave911> Hmmmmm.. I'll need to do more reading. :-)
[18:37:48] <Dave911> Say I configure a lot of PIDs and stepper controllers etc and link them together via gearing etc.. If I start running out of real time thread time - how does EMC2 let me know? Is there a RT thread overrun message that starts popping up? These PCs nowadays are a lot more robust than they were 10 years ago so perhaps I am overly concerned about resources.
[18:38:58] <cradek> if your realtime threads start taking too long to run, your remedy would be to run them less often. I can't guess how much you can do without running into trouble - it depends on ... well, everything
[18:42:10] <Dave911> >>- it depends on ... well, everything
[18:42:11] <Dave911> I was afraid that the answer was going to be like that ..... sounds like I need to spend some time doing some configuration and testing
[18:42:13] <Dave911> Thanks!
[18:42:15] <tom3p> how can he tell the problem occurred? ( how can he link the cause and effect )
[18:42:38] <Dave911> good question .....
[18:42:39] <cradek> halcmd show thread will show you the time a realtime thread is taking to run
[18:42:50] <tom3p> great! thx
[18:42:56] <cradek> if the system is unresponsive you might find that the thread is running for most of the given period
[18:44:31] <issy> hi cradec , i have reported to you a gug in the interpreter , please look at it. thanks
[18:44:56] <Dave911> cradek: Thanks
[18:45:15] <cradek> issy: I saw. Sorry I do not know about that.
[18:45:30] <Dave911> tom3p: Have you done a through wire edm machine retrofit before?
[18:49:25] <tom3p> Dave911: no, repaired ;em. upgrade them to new pumps and generators, but the cnc was always proprietary
[18:50:11] <Dave911> OK, Thanks!
[18:51:29] <tom3p> i made an old agie stepper move with emc, but there was no process feedback controlling position, it just ran slower than the process.
[19:20:37] <ZeroFlex> loa
[21:08:38] <frallzor> when bored, make a crapper-sign
[21:08:40] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/p/HTTvBMBUU/ =P
[21:09:32] <AchiestDragon> :)
[21:10:35] <frallzor> I even filmed it :P
[21:13:50] <AchiestDragon> http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/dscf2317.jpg did this one day for something to do
[21:15:32] <AchiestDragon> concidering its was done on a piece of mdf then vanished i am quite supprised how well its stood up to the weather ,, was rather hoping it would fall appart so cound make better attempt
[21:15:40] <archivist> some have bigger sheds http://www.collection.archivist.info/Dad%27s%20Shed!.JPG
[21:15:57] <archivist> not mine :((
[21:16:16] <frallzor> :P
[21:16:59] <pjm> LOL that is what i need!!
[21:17:00] <AchiestDragon> its going to be a mute point at the moment if i can actualy get the machine i am looking at in my workshop atm ,, let alone how easy a conversion its going to be to make it cnc
[21:17:02] <pjm> more space for crape
[21:18:35] <archivist> AchiestDragon, buy a dead cnc, less work to do
[21:19:58] <AchiestDragon> Bridgeport turret milling machine its about 4foot square i think still wating for him to email back ,, diagnaly in the workshop there should just be enough room for it i think ,
[21:20:30] <AchiestDragon> and only got 7foot4" hight thats going to be rather close
[21:20:36] <archivist> 4ft sounds low
[21:21:12] <AchiestDragon> thats the machine with the bed centered not including its travel
[21:21:51] <AchiestDragon> may have to remove the handles from one end to give it a bit more travel in the space i have
[21:21:55] <frallzor> * frallzor is planning a mechmate without a place to store it
[21:22:09] <frallzor> that is a storageissue =)
[21:22:47] <AchiestDragon> but if it fits then the whole workshop is basicaly going to act as a safty cage for it theres not going to be enough room to be in there to opperate it
[21:25:23] <AchiestDragon> ie like this sort of size 160367682302 the pallet i recon is about 4foot square so there would be just enough room for that machine
[21:27:34] <AchiestDragon> but may be a bit limited by the amount of x travel i can get before the bed handles start to plough through the wall
[21:28:20] <AchiestDragon> only realy need about 24" on x so should have just enough clearance
[21:28:29] <AchiestDragon> 19" would do
[21:32:32] <frallzor> hmm anyone know if you can massproduce in emc? :P
[21:32:42] <frallzor> say you have a pattern you want to mill
[21:33:05] <frallzor> when its done, it move a certain distance on say x, then sets home there, and starts milling again
[21:33:18] <archivist> use a subroutine
[21:34:04] <frallzor> cnc-overload for my knowledge :)
[21:34:06] <archivist> and relative movements in the subroutine
[21:35:36] <archivist> g0 some xy, o100 call, g0 next xy, o100 call
[21:36:14] <frallzor> i dont know much manualcoding, but I assume g0 is home
[21:36:27] <archivist> no its a move
[21:37:44] <frallzor> ass stuff like that in the code itself?
[21:37:50] <archivist> all my cutting of gears is done in a similar manner
[21:38:17] <frallzor> can you point me in the right direction if there is somewhere to read about it?
[21:38:40] <archivist> its worth learning some gcode and not relying on cam
[21:39:27] <archivist> I just read the gcode section of the manual, but it helps if you are used to programming
[21:41:29] <frallzor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-6651.html what swami writes
[21:41:40] <frallzor> so add the g-code itself as a sub-routine?
[21:41:44] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#cha:O-Codes
[21:43:12] <frallzor> well I havent done any programming so this was pretty much greek to me =)
[21:44:30] <archivist> there are examples that come with emc
[21:45:22] <archivist> some are a bit short on comments to help you though
[21:50:26] <frallzor> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/G_Code_Trick.html
[21:50:32] <frallzor> this seems about right and simple
[21:51:57] <frallzor> will that format work with emc?
[21:52:06] <archivist> could well be a very poor choice
[21:52:19] <frallzor> how come?
[21:52:56] <archivist> no g23 as far as I can see, its completely different
[21:53:29] <archivist> gcode has many dialects
[21:54:44] <frallzor> *sigh* I hate g-code =)
[22:17:46] <SWPadnos> work coordinate offsets are intended for the exact "mass production" scenario you describe
[22:17:54] <SWPadnos> and G92 can also be used
[22:18:44] <DaViruz> i would suggest repeating the part in CAM if you don't want to learn g-code..
[22:19:23] <SWPadnos> you have to do everything in CAM if you want to avoid learning any G-code
[22:19:39] <archivist> cam makes you lazy, doing it in gcode can be more efficient
[22:19:44] <SWPadnos> much
[22:19:53] <DaViruz> indeed
[22:20:05] <robh_> i have just added a post processor to wiki for Camworks, supports wide range of EMC2 functions, i plan to maintain post keep it up to date also.
[22:20:07] <SWPadnos> as an example, I don't think any CAM packages know how to use EMC2 subroutines
[22:20:41] <robh_> camworks post will also output emc2 sub calls took some doing but it works
[22:20:49] <DaViruz> i'm not advocating the avoidance of manual g-code, i'm just saying that if you really don't want to learn g-code it's probably better to do it in CAM instead of patching in something pre-written into unknown gcode
[22:21:31] <SWPadnos> robh_, cool - can you do arrays and have it use a subroutine for each part?
[22:21:52] <DaViruz> but of course for ten parts you likely multiply the file size by ten :)
[22:21:57] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:22:09] <robh_> as it is u setup a part say 50 parts on grid plate, and 1 tool routine and it will call that sub each time on part as it goes around the grid plate
[22:22:12] <SWPadnos> (or 9.999, you need a few SUB lines ;) )
[22:22:25] <robh_> so cut down on code, and have a easy to edit program file for 50 parts
[22:22:29] <SWPadnos> nice
[22:22:43] <robh_> if u download the same files u can see some test NGC outputs
[22:22:45] <DaViruz> yeah i also usually ends up with 9.999 parts, the first one always has some defects in it
[22:22:50] <SWPadnos> I now know of one CAM program that will use EMC2 subroutines ;)
[22:22:57] <DaViruz> (and yes i know what you meant :P)
[22:23:10] <robh_> rigid tapping also outputs correct, using K as feed
[22:23:15] <SWPadnos> I'm in the US, so 9.999 is just under 10, not one less than 10000
[22:23:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:23:47] <DaViruz> i meant that you get 9 good parts and one that's only 99.9% good
[22:24:04] <robh_> then you lernt for next time ;)
[22:24:13] <DaViruz> stupid joke, never mind :P
[22:24:30] <frallzor> well If i need to learn manual g-code some nice explaining example would be nice =) not just "here is code, use code" =P
[22:29:47] <AchiestDragon> http://www.cnczone.com/ gone dead
[22:31:17] <robh_> if one wants to do left hand rigid tapping how does G33.1 work? do you just reverse the spindle at the start of cycle?
[22:40:48] <andypugh> Hmm, that code all looks rather complicated. I did much the same thing last night with an array of BNC connector cutouts with a subroutine for the shape centred around (0,0) and just shifting the origin with G92 every time. I thought that was what G92 was for?
[22:42:14] <andypugh> robh_ You might need a negative pitch and a negative spindle speed.
[22:42:25] <archivist> I tend to be rotating an axis then calling a subroutine
[22:42:35] <cradek> robh_: I think if the spindle is turning left when you do it, it will just work. is that not the case?
[22:42:44] <robh_> iv not tryed it
[22:43:36] <robh_> andypugh, i think negative spindle speed is rejected?
[22:44:10] <andypugh> I would always go by what cradek says than by what I guess
[22:44:30] <robh_> ill give it a try cradek see what it trys to do. id expsect it to work same for threading on lathe? left and right thread cutting
[22:45:18] <andypugh> On a lathe you would start at the other end rather than reverse the spindle rotation, I think.
[22:45:41] <andypugh> Unless you wanted to put the tool in upside down.
[22:46:03] <robh_> depends which side of part ur tool is ;)
[22:46:05] <AchiestDragon> when it comes to threads i still opt to use my hand opperated tap and die set
[22:46:07] <cradek> I thought we were talking about tapping?
[22:46:37] <robh_> hehe we was ill give it a go in sim if it works ill add it to the post i just made for camworks
[22:46:55] <AchiestDragon> then if i break one i can blame myself not the machine
[22:46:57] <andypugh> Aye, we were, robh_ just said it was like threading on a lathe, but I don't think it is.
[22:47:33] <jymm> Safe for work... http://filebin.ca/cvrahh/Noah_and_the_Bunnies.pdf
[22:47:37] <cradek> it's similar except for the reversing part
[22:49:22] <andypugh> I was just wondering how the trajectory planner coped with an encoder counting down rather than up.
[22:49:54] <cradek> heh, well either it works or it doesn't (and is a bug)
[22:50:25] <cradek> I remember a bug report a long time ago about spindlesync with M4 not working - don't remember whether I fixed it or not
[22:50:25] <andypugh> I was thinking that if it doesn't work then it might work with a negative pitch.
[22:51:02] <andypugh> As position is approximately encoder counts x pitch.
[22:51:39] <andypugh> Ah, not getting synch at all would be a bit of a show stopper
[23:31:32] <AchiestDragon> hell this is going to be a close fit ,,, theres two table sizes for this bridgeport ,,, one is 9" by 49" the other 10" by 86" the small macine would fit in my workshop at a push , but the bigger one is 1 inch too high and 11" too narrow its almost imposible to tell form the pics what size it actualy is
[23:32:35] <AchiestDragon> narrow/wide
[23:33:20] <andypugh> Drill a hole in the floor above to operate the drawbar?
[23:43:01] <dmess> hi all
[23:43:17] <andypugh> hi there
[23:57:22] <dmess> quiet nite...
[23:58:30] <dmess> i'm jus home from a 7 hr drive... @ warp speed... thk god all the cops we seen were pre-occupied