#emc | Logs for 2009-09-26

[01:11:28] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:34:46] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[01:37:08] <Valen> so zup yall
[03:29:10] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[08:42:15] <Jon_geo01005> Jon_geo01005 is now known as geo01005
[08:44:30] <oPless> * oPless wonders if you have to write drivers in (python?) to move custom hardware
[10:00:55] <archivist> oPless, what do you mean by custom hardware
[10:04:40] <oPless> oh, usb-based (serial) items, like motors driven by phidget/pololu controllers
[10:05:13] <oPless> I did see the serial/duodino hal controller, which is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for
[10:05:22] <archivist> emc does not support usb due to latency at the moment
[10:06:58] <oPless> http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294 <--
[10:08:09] <oPless> but this is all research at present - there's not actual hardware to drive right noww
[10:09:30] <oPless> I stumbled across linuxcnc via http://www.engadget.com/tag/cnc+machine/
[10:10:38] <archivist> I have built a mill and also retrofitted a lathe both with emc and cheapo steppers
[10:11:28] <oPless> what did you use to control the steppers?
[10:11:44] <Valen> I used scooter motors
[10:11:51] <archivist> I noticed your hostmask was a UK address when uou joins #emc last night
[10:12:18] <archivist> parallel port and drivers from Arc eurotrade
[10:12:26] <oPless> I was waiting for some activity until I spoke :P
[10:12:32] <oPless> * oPless googles
[10:12:56] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/VIDEO0012.mp4
[10:13:11] <Valen> scooter motors cutting at 200mm/minute
[10:13:59] <Valen> 0.013 or so accuracy http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0083.jpg
[10:14:05] <Valen> milimeters that is
[10:19:20] <Valen> I'm using a 5i23 and a (modified) 7i40 from mesa with linear scales
[10:21:47] <oPless> nice :)
[10:23:15] <archivist> hmm Myford open day and 75th aniv till 3pm.. I should burger off
[10:51:16] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[11:24:49] <ZeroFlex> hmmm indy car is strange
[11:50:59] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[12:33:10] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:17:31] <mozmck1> mozmck1 is now known as mozmck
[17:31:25] <jthornton> what is the proper syntax for using "names" when loading a rt component? I can't find any examples and have not been able to guess...
[17:32:23] <jthornton> for example I have tried loadrt limit2 count=2 names=mycount
[17:33:25] <jthornton> count=2 was count=1
[17:33:55] <jthornton> I have also tried names="mycount"
[17:35:52] <jymm> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/hal_tutorial.html#r1_2_3
[17:36:33] <jthornton> thanks jymm
[17:37:47] <jthornton> that is for naming threads
[17:38:08] <jthornton> count= and names= are mutually exclusive is the error
[17:38:34] <jymm> http://tinyurl.com/y9vacq7
[17:42:11] <jthornton> Ha! I finally guessed the syntax
[17:42:33] <jymm> ?
[17:56:25] <jthornton> well I got it half way guessed it still won't work with count=1 in the line
[18:07:58] <jymm> maybe count is a reserved word?
[19:03:18] <jthornton> If you want more than one you have to use count like:
[19:03:30] <jthornton> loadrt mux2 count=3
[19:40:35] <alex_joni> http://www.techamok.com/?pid=6973
[19:42:22] <jthornton> it didn't even knock him down :0
[20:23:25] <gene> some silly questions about amanda. anybody running it?
[20:24:35] <alex_joni> you mean #amanda ?
[20:25:35] <gene> the backup sw, I run it on the main box, ande was thinking of installing the client so I can get selected pieces of this box too.
[20:25:52] <jthornton> alex_joni: do you know the syntax for using names with loadrt?
[20:26:16] <jthornton> like loadrt mux2 count=1 names=myname
[20:26:18] <gene> But the client in apt-get insstall, has confusing config setups.
[20:26:25] <jthornton> but that doesn't work
[20:27:01] <gene> Or would I be better off to just move the tarball over here and build it with the same scripts I use there?
[20:31:26] <jthornton> * jthornton wanders off to put a RJ45 connector on the other end of the Cat5e cable
[20:31:30] <jthornton> see you in the garage
[20:40:25] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[20:49:48] <jthornton> Yea! I'm a redneck network engineer my two RJ45 plugs worked :)
[20:50:16] <jthornton> now to pick up the cat5e that is all over the floor and the lawn...
[20:52:05] <oPless> :)
[20:52:10] <dgarr> jthornton: try: loadrt limit1 names=limitone,duh,huh (for example)
[21:20:44] <ZeroFlex> attaacckkeeeeeeeeeee
[21:26:40] <jthornton> dgarr: you win the prize it is either use count or use names but not both :) thanks
[21:27:26] <alex_joni> < jthornton> count= and names= are mutually exclusive is the error
[21:27:37] <alex_joni> jthornton: I thought you got that a _long_ time ago
[21:27:51] <jthornton> yea, but it didn't ring a bell and I forgot
[21:28:57] <jthornton> I guess that is what the | means in the discription
[21:31:40] <andypugh> Would anyone care to hazard a guess as to what I am doing wrong with my spindle encoder setup?
[21:31:54] <jthornton> it's wired wrong
[21:32:00] <jthornton> just a swag
[21:32:10] <andypugh> http://www.atp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Encoder.png
[21:32:55] <andypugh> I can't quite see why the velocity varies so very wildly
[21:33:25] <jthornton> nope my guess was wrong
[21:33:35] <jthornton> what method did you use to tune the servo?
[21:34:10] <andypugh> Not servos, it is just a spindle encoder
[21:34:21] <andypugh> Running at a steady speed,
[21:35:11] <jthornton> are you using hardware like 5i20 or the parallel port to get your encoder signal to EMC
[21:35:40] <andypugh> pport
[21:35:58] <jthornton> does it get better at slower speeds?
[21:37:03] <andypugh> That is slow speed
[21:37:15] <jthornton> the parallel port is pretty limited when it comes to encoders with high ppr
[21:37:16] <andypugh> The trace there is 100rpm
[21:37:19] <alex_joni> andypugh: can you pastebin the halcmd show all ?
[21:37:42] <andypugh> I understand as far as "Can you" :-)
[21:37:58] <alex_joni> andypugh: open a terminal, write "halcmd show all"
[21:38:03] <alex_joni> you'll get some text
[21:38:10] <alex_joni> copy/paste that to pastebin.ca
[21:38:21] <jthornton> I knew if I guessed enough someone that knew what they were talking about would chime in :)
[21:39:49] <fenn> i wonder if he's feeding A and B from the same electrical signal
[21:39:50] <jthornton> andypugh: and EMC has to be running when you do the halcmd show all
[21:40:44] <fenn> velocity spikes on the edge of the square wave.. that would happen if A and B were ~0 degrees apart instead of 90
[21:40:56] <fenn> dunno why it's so random though
[21:40:56] <andypugh> I don't have a B, I ran out of channels. Is that a showstopper?
[21:41:18] <fenn> no
[21:47:45] <alex_joni> but you need to tell encoder that
[21:47:56] <alex_joni> so that it's in countermode not quadrature counter mode
[21:48:41] <jthornton> andypugh: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//examples_spindle.html#r2
[21:51:09] <andypugh> Ah,I looked in the HAL manual, but that only mentions 3 properties for the encoder, none of which are actually recognised.
[21:58:08] <jthornton> what do you mean none are actually recognised?
[22:04:17] <andypugh> According to the HAL manual encoder has properties "scale" "max-index-vel" and "velocity-resolution". Trying to set "scale" stopped EMC booting. I didn't try the others
[22:05:14] <jthornton> probley a typo on your part
[22:05:31] <jthornton> did you look at the example link
[22:06:14] <oPless> has anyone build a cnc from a robot arm ?
[22:06:20] <oPless> (here)
[22:06:26] <andypugh> Not yet, I am busy with other stuff and the emc machine is powered down and in the workshop.
[22:07:08] <andypugh> I found that "Scale" needs to be "velocity-scale", so the typo is actually in the HAL manual.
[22:09:07] <jthornton> can you remember where at in the HAL manual and which manual?
[22:09:38] <jthornton> I don't see velocity-scale but I do see position-scale as a parameter
[22:10:38] <andypugh> Sorry, yes. I was working from memory as I was busy elsewhere
[22:10:53] <jthornton> for me I like to use the HAL Configuration window to see what the exact names are like shown here http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html#sec:Hal-Commands
[22:10:55] <andypugh> I have got rid of that distraction now
[22:11:01] <jthornton> lol
[22:11:57] <andypugh> I wish I knew how to copy URLs out of this java client thing
[22:11:59] <alex_joni> oPless: what kind of CNC?
[22:12:03] <jthornton> do you know if you were reading the HAL manual or the Integrators manual (they both have some HAL reading material)?
[22:12:25] <jthornton> are you in linux?
[22:12:29] <alex_joni> andypugh: try selecting the text, and middle clicking in the browser
[22:12:35] <andypugh> I was reading the PDF HAL manual linked from the linxcnc.org documentation link
[22:12:54] <jthornton> ok, I'll check that one
[22:13:48] <oPless> alex_joni, milling probably, I'm a noob at all this, and researching right now
[22:14:30] <jthornton> andypugh: I found the error thanks, I'll fix that
[22:18:35] <andypugh> I might know what the problem is. I think perhaps stepconf has the encoder b wired to the unfiltered encoder a channel, and I am not over-writing that in my custom.hal
[22:19:23] <andypugh> so perhaps noise in the B channel is having odd effects when compared to the debounced A channel?
[22:19:53] <jthornton> that's out of my guesspertice level sorry
[22:21:34] <andypugh> Give me 5 mins I will do that pastebin thing.
[22:27:06] <andy_in_the_gara> what was the command? halcmd show all?
[22:29:38] <jthornton> yea
[22:29:45] <jthornton> with emc running
[22:30:36] <andy_in_the_gara> rats! can't paste the link, no CTRL key on this antivandal keyboard
[22:30:57] <jthornton> use the middle mouse button
[22:31:20] <jthornton> use the middle mouse button like I just did
[22:31:32] <andy_in_the_gara> no middle mouse button. Tracball with 2 buttons
[22:31:46] <dgarr> you can also pipe it to a file with the '>' operator: example: halcmd show >somefilename
[22:32:01] <jthornton> dgarr: to the rescue
[22:32:30] <andy_in_the_gara> i will just email it to myself. Heading back indoors
[22:32:44] <oPless> twobuttons: try chording the two buttons at the same time
[22:32:45] <dgarr> jthornton: did you note: loadrt mux2 names=namea,nameb,namec works i think
[22:33:07] <jthornton> yes, you were the winner of the prize today
[22:33:27] <jthornton> I completly forgot that you can use either count or names but not both
[22:33:49] <dgarr> that names feature is useful -- i wish i had used it from the start
[22:35:31] <jthornton> Yea, I wanted to use it in an example I'm doing to make it more intutitive to follow (I hope)
[22:36:00] <dgarr> the alias feature in hal is very useful also
[22:36:46] <alex_joni> andy_in_the_gara: for machines with no middle button, you can press both buttons at once, it'll be the same
[22:38:13] <andypugh> Sorry, my browser crashed.
[22:38:27] <andypugh> Anyway, the halcmd show all is at http://www.pastebin.ca/1580708
[22:40:04] <andypugh> And I can see for myself that all is not as it should be
[22:41:17] <andypugh> I assume that encoder.0.
[22:42:13] <andypugh> I assume that encoder.0.phase-a and encoder.0.phase-b should both be connected to spindlefilt (my debounced encoder channel)
[22:42:46] <andypugh> Not one to spindleunfilt and one to an unconnected channel
[22:50:14] <andy_in_the_gara> Aha! That looks much better
[23:02:01] <andy_in_the_gara> Does it matter if I fudge the encoder scale to read rpm rather than revs per second?
[23:02:20] <alex_joni> depends what you do with it
[23:02:46] <andy_in_the_gara> I only want it for thread cutting
[23:03:37] <alex_joni> then it matters
[23:05:05] <andy_in_the_gara> Perhaps I can create a spindle speed signal. Is there a multiply function in HAL?
[23:05:33] <alex_joni> sure
[23:06:03] <alex_joni> look for a component that has gain on the inputs
[23:06:11] <andy_in_the_gara> More importantly with a 1ppr index and a 20ppr A channel, should position-scale be 1 or 20?
[23:06:43] <alex_joni> or use mult2
[23:06:54] <alex_joni> 20
[23:09:01] <andy_in_the_gara> 20 seems to work, position-interpolated is in synch with te pulley balance hole rubbing my thumb
[23:14:34] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:15:17] <jthornton> good night alex
[23:21:31] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[23:25:01] <andy_in_the_gara> can i pass an already-linked parameter to mult2?
[23:26:41] <jthornton> a signal can have more than one destination http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html#r1_1_4
[23:27:06] <andy_in_the_gara> net spindle-velocity => mult2.0.in1 doesn't work
[23:27:30] <jthornton> is it the same type?
[23:28:22] <jthornton> mult2.0.in1 expects a float
[23:28:39] <andy_in_the_gara> both floats i thin
[23:29:38] <andy_in_the_gara> is the problem that it is linked in lathe.hal so custom.hal can't have it?
[23:30:02] <jthornton> no, is spindle-velocity a signal?
[23:30:15] <jthornton> or a pin?
[23:30:36] <andy_in_the_gara> I wish I knew knew the diference
[23:30:59] <jthornton> open up HAL Configuration from the Machine menu and see
[23:31:24] <jthornton> also look at the link for an explanation
[23:31:41] <jthornton> It can be confusing at first
[23:31:47] <andy_in_the_gara> I can't get axis up with these errors in the custom.hal
[23:32:00] <jthornton> comment them out with a #
[23:32:08] <jthornton> until it will load then look
[23:33:38] <andy_in_the_gara> I can't copy or paste on this keyboard!
[23:33:55] <jthornton> use the mouse
[23:34:08] <andy_in_the_gara> No mouse
[23:34:25] <Skullworks1> no CTRL key?
[23:34:28] <andy_in_the_gara> trackpad and right-click
[23:34:29] <jthornton> type in the url
[23:34:54] <andy_in_the_gara> no, ctrl key. typing it is then
[23:35:58] <andy_in_the_gara> I will go back inside to read the link, past midnight here anyway
[23:36:46] <jthornton> ok
[23:37:01] <jthornton> dinner time here
[23:44:56] <andypugh> So, you can't connect a signal to a signal?
[23:45:16] <jthornton> no, I don't think so
[23:46:06] <andypugh> what does mult2.0.in0 count as?
[23:46:36] <jthornton> out = in0 * in1
[23:47:33] <andypugh> Yes, I got that bit. Is mult2.0.in0 a signal or a pin? (or neither). ie what sort of thing do I need to net it to? (can you tell I am still _very_ confused)
[23:48:32] <jthornton> a pin
[23:48:59] <andypugh> Earlier in the HAL file is the line
[23:49:00] <jthornton> yes, but it will clear up soon
[23:49:01] <andypugh> net spindle-velocity encoder.0.velocity => motion.spindle-speed-in
[23:49:17] <jthornton> ok spindle-velocity is the signal
[23:49:53] <jthornton> encoder.0.velocity and motion.spindle-speed-in are pins or parameters
[23:50:14] <andypugh> I reckon linking any of those three to mult2.0.in1 would be good, but net mult2.0.in1 <= spindle-velocity doesn't work
[23:50:49] <jthornton> you have to give the new signal a name or use the name of another signal
[23:51:01] <andypugh> and net mult2.0.in1 <= encoder.0.velocity drops out with "pin already linked"
[23:51:09] <jthornton> net spindle-velocity mult2.0.in1
[23:51:44] <andypugh> I _think_ I tried that. Perhaps I didn't
[23:52:19] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html#r1_1_4
[23:52:31] <jthornton> look at this example
[23:52:50] <andypugh> I looked at that. I found myself just as confused
[23:53:04] <jthornton> see the net xStep part?
[23:53:14] <andypugh> Yes, that was totally baffling.
[23:54:04] <jthornton> the signal xStep can be "sent" to different pins even though the example is borked and shows pin2 for both
[23:54:13] <andypugh> Are the one-line and two-line examples meant to do the same thing?
[23:54:29] <jthornton> between you and me we are finding all the mistakes in the manual
[23:54:36] <jthornton> yes
[23:54:53] <andypugh> Yes, the fact that pin8 was not mentioned the second time round rather threw me off course
[23:54:57] <jthornton> * jthornton wanders off to correct the manual
[23:56:41] <jthornton> * jthornton hears the dinner bell and don't want to be late :)
[23:57:09] <jthornton> bbl
[23:57:12] <andypugh> I will try the syntax you said, and succeed or fail, I am going to bed