#emc | Logs for 2009-09-19

[00:11:42] <anonimasu> Mire: get datasheets for whatever hall switch you are using
[00:11:55] <anonimasu> there are 5v ones and 3.3v ones and 12 and 24v ones
[00:15:02] <Mire> 3 terminals seem to be 12v, gnd, and o/p. Machine is Hardinge HNC. terminals to switch +&- read open by ohmmeter, but appear to allow an alarming flow of current when powered. I put 1kohm in line and it drops 11v! I have only reconnected the 12v the machine was wired with. Should see 12v at +-, only seeing 1!
[00:18:29] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[00:20:32] <Mire> If they fail short, maybe lightning struck and it happened to both circuits at once. More likely I am a neophyte and I need someone to point out my error.
[00:23:15] <fenn> it's also possible you broke both of them in the same way
[00:25:46] <Mire> Looking increasingly likely. But do they fail short across + and -?
[00:51:08] <fenn> it's also plausible that they're normally closed switches (hall effect switches you say?)
[00:54:24] <Mire> just the same, these are the supply lines, and the o/p is not connected. It should not overdraw from my 12v supply open or closed. If these items fail short then I have a likely answer. if not i scratch my head...
[01:25:54] <guest_> How do I tell EMC2 that my rotary axis a turns around the z axis or x or y?
[01:35:31] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[01:35:42] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[01:39:09] <Mire> cradek are you there?
[01:41:21] <Mire> I've a question or two now i've looked over .hal files and such...
[01:42:47] <cradek> just ask - often many people can answer a question, and some of us only come out of hiding for the really good or hard ones
[01:43:10] <cradek> on irc this convention is known as "don't ask to ask, just ask"
[01:44:48] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:48:15] <mozmck1> guest_: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Glossary
[01:49:07] <mozmck1> at the top of the page under the description of "Axis" it says A rotates around X, B around Y, and C around Z.
[01:54:36] <mozmck1> how do I change my nick to my normal one?
[01:54:56] <guest__> When I set up my machine/steppers I set it up as xyza. I guess I would like to remap a to c.
[01:57:27] <cradek> in emc2 you can have an xyzc machine
[01:57:52] <cradek> like mozmck1 says, if your rotary table is horizontal, C is the best name for it
[01:58:52] <cradek> (but I don't see much call for that when you can do arcs so easily without it)
[01:59:43] <toastydeath> traditionally any C axis on a milling machine that is IN LINE with the spindle is the actual spindle itself
[02:00:14] <toastydeath> cradek's point is spot on that there's no real use for C on the table
[02:00:35] <toastydeath> i am only aware of one hyper-specialized cnc that uses a C axis like that
[02:00:36] <cradek> maybe say what kind of work you're trying to do and we can give better advice?
[02:02:26] <guest__> Because the rotary table is bolted to the xy, does backplot reflect that the rotary table center has moved when I move x or y? I would like to drill a circular pattern of holes in material mounted to my rotary table. Move x to adjust the radius and then turn the rotary table 10 degrees, drill, turn 10 degrees ...
[02:02:52] <cradek> it is much MUCH easier to do that in plain gcode
[02:03:17] <cradek> you can calculate the hole coordinates with X = R * cos(angle) and Y = R * sin(angle)
[02:03:18] <toastydeath> guest__: that is ridiculously inaccurate
[02:03:39] <cradek> angle=0 is to your right
[02:04:12] <toastydeath> one of the major points of having a CNC is to be able to use the accuracy of a linear slide to preform circular operations
[02:04:27] <cradek> if you don't know trigonometry maybe we can talk you through an example
[02:04:36] <toastydeath> cradek: does EMC support g52/g16
[02:04:50] <Mire> my most pressing q is the one I asked above. Is it plausible tht I have LSs in my turret and carriage simultaneously fail short? aiming at cradek since he's wired the same exact wires...
[02:05:01] <cradek> if that's polar coordinates, no
[02:05:11] <toastydeath> polar coords + local work shift
[02:05:19] <cradek> no
[02:05:22] <toastydeath> rather, the other way around, local work shift + polar
[02:05:24] <toastydeath> oh
[02:05:29] <toastydeath> nvm
[02:05:49] <cradek> Mire: oops I didn't read back. reading...
[02:06:08] <fenn> * fenn suggests that guest__ learn how to use CAM software
[02:07:34] <cradek> Mire: I have seen proxes just stop working, but not fail shorted like that.
[02:08:46] <cradek> Mire: they take power on two leads. you test them by putting your voltmeter between the output lead and the + lead (not ground) - they are always (?) open collector
[02:10:17] <guest__> Thanks, I will probably use Excel to calculate and paste into G-code. I was not aware that rotary tables were not very accurate. If all my holes are at the same radius the only thing that is changing is the angle.
[02:11:12] <cradek> guest__: the most wonderful benefit of CNC is how you can do circular things without centering the circular thing on a rotary table - start thinking this way and you will never go back
[02:12:13] <mozmck1> mozmck1 is now known as mozmck
[02:12:21] <cradek> guest__: do you have a machinerys handbook? they even have the bolt circle coordinates already figured out for you
[02:13:15] <guest__> Easier to convert spherical to Cartesian and cut and paste
[02:13:47] <cradek> yes it's an easy calculation if you know how
[02:13:56] <cradek> since you asked this question I assumed you did not have this knowledge
[02:16:28] <guest__> Most of the things I am building are round such that spherical or polar coordinates work best for design and calculations, cartesian for actually cutting in the real world.
[02:16:50] <toastydeath> guest__: re: accuracy, for very small radiuses a rotary table can be sufficient - but rotary table accuracy is expressed in degrees, and the further out you get from the center, the less accurate it is
[02:17:23] <guest__> First time I have signed in to this group - very helpful. Thanks!
[02:18:39] <Mire> so current limiting resistors are needed for HNC LSs? I'm interfacing to 7i37. I had the idea I could wire them right to the input.
[02:19:39] <cradek> no resistors are needed
[02:20:03] <cradek> +12 and ground to the prox, +12 and prox output to the 7i37
[02:20:04] <Mire> 12v, gnd, signal in?
[02:20:37] <cradek> imagine the 7i37 isolated inputs are just like your volt meter - you have to hook both sides the right way to the right thing
[02:21:12] <cradek> if the prox power lines seem shorted I have no idea what's going on
[02:22:02] <Mire> good then there is hope.
[02:23:49] <Mire> Cant help worrying it needed that megalithic 12v supply from the evil fridge.
[02:24:12] <cradek> I thought mine ran off the tiny little 12v supply in the headstock side cabinet
[02:24:23] <cradek> I'm pretty sure that's what's running them now - or maybe the PC supply
[02:24:32] <cradek> I think they use hardly any current
[02:24:39] <Mire> Me too. I have to have made a mistake.
[02:24:50] <Mire> they use nil
[02:25:28] <cradek> one of mine is bad - I don't think the original control cared
[02:25:52] <cradek> so you might have some defective ones - don't rule it out if you did not recently test them
[02:27:16] <Mire> cradek i was suprised you didn't wire in the switch from the spindle lock pin. Having run a chucker, I'd want that one interlock in place.
[02:27:45] <cradek> it was broken - I fixed it now, but have not wired it up
[02:28:01] <cradek> some day I will finish that retrofit... still some stuff unpolished.
[02:28:20] <cradek> how did you know that? I must have posted it somewhere.
[02:28:44] <Mire> I hope to do mine nicely. You gave me copies of your config files.
[02:28:54] <cradek> oh right, haha
[02:29:39] <Mire> anyhow, I'm in past my waist but I've never done anything like this before...
[02:29:44] <cradek> have you made any sense out of it? I didn't ever do anything to neaten it up.
[02:30:13] <Mire> It helped a lot when I figured out how to start classicladder.
[02:30:19] <cradek> it was my first nontrivial ladder programming - I'm better at it now
[02:30:42] <Mire> well im still a little rough:)
[02:30:43] <cradek> ah yeah that can be hard to get all set up
[02:31:51] <Mire> Well I am mostly following yours but there are differences I'd make.
[02:32:10] <cradek> me too I bet :-)
[02:32:34] <cradek> the enemy of perfect is good enough
[02:32:59] <Mire> hey, i have a blind spot wrt VFD. what mode of comm are you using?
[02:33:23] <cradek> digital IO and analog speed command
[02:34:00] <cradek> vfd fault wired in the estop chain (or did I ever get that done??)
[02:35:04] <Mire> modbus seems to be assumed by examples in docs. You are just running wires direct rite? isn't modbus a serial protocol?
[02:35:14] <cradek> I'm not using modbus
[02:35:31] <cradek> if you have an automation direct GS2 there is a hal module for talking to it with modbus -- I have not tried it
[02:36:35] <Mire> good. just 3 wires? i was unable to determine the mapping of pins to 5i20.
[02:37:08] <cradek> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/user_comps/gs2_vfd.c;h=17ed97b78e681c673ab768eb2e0e62bb0b7daf73;hb=master
[02:37:31] <cradek> if using modbus you just hook it to a serial port
[02:39:45] <Mire> i started up, got a term and typed halcmd show pin |grep 5i20. looked like outputs mapped to vfd fwd, rev, and power. f/b goes to an encoder in on 7i33 if i understand right.
[02:40:04] <cradek> yes that's how I have it set up
[02:40:25] <cradek> modbus is a totally different animal
[02:41:09] <Mire> In the schematics the resolvers on axis appear identical to spindle resolver. Could they be converted to encoder ins the same way?
[02:42:08] <cradek> surely
[02:42:27] <Mire> Marvelous. I like the symmetry.
[02:42:41] <cradek> mine had resolver AND encoder on the spindle - I saw no reason to use the resolver
[02:42:51] <cradek> I have no clue why it had both
[02:43:14] <Mire> You told me to look... collet is closed im stuck for now
[02:43:34] <cradek> ah
[02:45:15] <Mire> Say, how hard is it to damage these IO boards?
[02:46:02] <cradek> no idea
[02:46:18] <cradek> the manual probably says what it can handle electrically
[02:48:44] <tom3p> how do i get that git file? ( the modbus driver for AD vfd ... saving the web page has loads of grbg in it like line numbers etc )
[02:49:26] <cradek> it's in a regular git checkout
[02:49:47] <cradek> or you can probably click 'raw' and save it (but what use without a full checkout to build?)
[02:50:08] <cradek> also, goodnight
[02:50:33] <Mire> gnite thanx
[02:51:47] <tom3p> what use? to see how the driver was built, whats the ins & outs are and not be connected to net while reading
[02:51:55] <tom3p> gnite
[02:52:26] <mozmck> do you have a git checkout?
[02:54:03] <tom3p> yes, older, just wanted to read the file
[02:55:19] <mozmck> I don't think it has changed for a good while, so you should have it under src/hal/user_comps
[02:56:13] <tom3p> ah, raw worked, rt click & save as, a real text file
[02:56:35] <mozmck> ok.
[02:57:11] <tom3p> wah! and it is in the checkout, never saw that before!
[02:57:55] <mozmck> :-)
[09:18:28] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:26:29] <MarkPictor> hi guys
[14:27:16] <MarkPictor> Anyone know how to get hole size info out of eagle?
[14:29:14] <MarkPictor> heh. guess I'll try later :-)
[14:42:39] <renesis> markpictor: hole layer
[14:42:42] <renesis> make it visible
[14:42:52] <renesis> click the 'i' icon at the top of the toolbar
[14:43:02] <renesis> click on the drill symbol for the hole you want to check
[14:43:26] <renesis> also, you can use the cam processor to generate excellon drill files for the hole and drill layers
[14:43:45] <renesis> excellon is basically some tool definitions and a list of drill coordinates
[14:45:24] <renesis> if you mean holes from vias and pads, those are in the drill layer, defined the same way
[14:46:40] <renesis> i dont think you can use the info tool on them tho, you either have to look in the excellon file (i dont remember if it defines tool diamater in some form easy for humans to read)
[14:47:04] <renesis> or look at the footprint in the library containing that part
[14:50:25] <MarkPictor> MarkPictor is now known as MarkPictor-away
[14:56:33] <MarkPictor-away> MarkPictor-away is now known as MarkPictor
[14:56:50] <MarkPictor> renesis: thanks
[14:57:09] <MarkPictor> all I want is a list of which size drills are required
[14:57:18] <MarkPictor> sounds like excellon will do that
[14:59:48] <renesis> markpictor: do you know about pcb-gcode?
[15:00:16] <renesis> it generates a gcode file for drills with comments listing the drill size
[15:00:24] <renesis> like, you have to edit the file so it works in emc
[15:00:48] <renesis> because i dunno the guy who scripted drill output is a retard at rs274 concepts, i guess
[15:01:22] <renesis> but itll give you toolchange info followed by coordinates (remember the first coordinate is after the g82 line with the parameters)
[15:02:16] <renesis> pcb-gcode is a ulp, i dont think it comes with eagle so you have to go to cadsoft.de or whatever the url is and grab it from their ulp downloads page
[15:10:05] <MarkPictor> yeah, I've heard of pcb-gcode. I have yet to download it. I'm just finding the drill sizes so piasdom can see if he has them.
[15:10:20] <MarkPictor> He volunteered to make some pcb's for me.
[15:11:31] <MarkPictor> I think eagle's "CAM" output is for specialized pcb machines and diverged from gcode in the 60's or 70's. So it's similar but different.
[15:12:21] <renesis> yeah excellon and gerbers (rs274d/rs274x) are kinda machine specific simplified gcode
[15:13:01] <renesis> like, excellon just does drill callouts and point coordinates
[15:13:27] <renesis> and gerbers will define an apperture shape (the shape of the light it draws with)
[15:13:46] <renesis> then its just coordinates defining linear movements to draw out the PCB
[15:14:41] <renesis> if you can read gcode you can open em up and figure out whats going on
[15:17:35] <MarkPictor> ok, you were criticizing the guy who did pcb-gcode... I thought you were criticizing eagle. I think pcb-gcode was created for turbocnc and/or mach, so no wonder it's screwy :-)
[15:23:09] <MarkPictor> piasdom: if you read through this, I just sent you a couple emails
[15:32:24] <renesis> yeah i click on the emc compatible output option, it still generates useless drill files
[15:32:28] <renesis> * renesis shrug
[15:41:02] <MarkPictor> renesis: huh. I didn't realize it even had an emc option. I think they have a yahoo group, you could ask on there...
[15:50:15] <MarkPictor> completely off topic, but might be interesting to you guys: at work, the lcd died on a grinder. the quote was high enough that it must be for the entire hmi.
[15:50:28] <MarkPictor> so, guess how much this hmi costs: http://www.kmtgroup.com/opencms/en_ZZ/uva/products/equipment/uvatronic3/
[15:53:13] <renesis> $11k?
[15:55:11] <fenn> gcode.ulp is another eagle->gcode script, but specifically designed for EMC: http://git.unpy.net/view?p=eagle.git;a=summary
[15:57:48] <MarkPictor> hmmm. you were supposed to guess low. :-
[15:57:54] <MarkPictor> :-)
[15:57:59] <MarkPictor> $7k
[15:59:01] <MarkPictor> when I get my mill converted, i'm gonna copy some features of that hmi
[15:59:50] <MarkPictor> mpg for one, it snaps in under the keyboard, has a pistol grip, and magnets so it can be stuck to the machine
[16:01:43] <MarkPictor> the mpg lights up when active, and after 30 seconds without activity it is disabled, gotta turn the axis selector to re-enable it
[16:09:46] <MarkPictor> bbl
[16:09:52] <MarkPictor> MarkPictor is now known as MarkPictor-away
[18:37:12] <ZeroFlex> snie sna snappie
[18:59:07] <ZeroFlex_> ZeroFlex_ is now known as ZeroFlex
[19:10:14] <pcw_home> Roguish: Hi
[19:10:16] <pcw_home> Dont know if this is the appropriate forum but have a potential customer that needs some
[19:10:17] <pcw_home> help with A EMC retrofit (a consulting job). Since you were local (He's in Sunnyvale)
[19:10:19] <pcw_home> I though you might possibly be interested, If so, I'll give you his contact info
[19:14:02] <Roguish> pcw_home: what's up?
[19:16:50] <pcw_home> He just doesnt know where to start
[19:16:51] <pcw_home> Looks like an old time CNC guy, but a little afraid of config files etc
[19:17:41] <Roguish> where are you at?
[19:18:10] <pcw_home> Me? Home ATM
[19:18:21] <Roguish> city, state?
[19:18:42] <Roguish> i definitely do side jobs.
[19:18:52] <pcw_home> I though you had been to Mesa (Richmond Ca)
[19:19:27] <Roguish> yeah, i'm east bay. sunnyvale is south bay, but it's still the bay.....
[19:19:47] <Roguish> oh, dumb me. you're peter.
[19:20:11] <Roguish> yeah, definitely would speak to him.
[19:20:12] <pcw_home> (I thought I had the wrong Roguish)
[19:20:24] <Roguish> no, only one, i hope.
[19:23:12] <pcw_home> OK should I email contact info your way? (dont seem to have your email thats why i did this here)
[19:23:59] <Roguish> i can send you an email to mesa? and you can reply?
[19:24:18] <pcw_home> Yes that would work
[19:24:51] <Roguish> ok. will do that later today. i'm just starting to tear walls out of my only bathroom for a remodel.
[19:25:18] <Roguish> thanks for thinking of me.
[19:25:22] <pcw_home> Plumbing working is a priority!
[19:26:01] <pcw_home> NP, seemed like a good match
[23:24:16] <ZeroFlex1> hmm
[23:59:46] <toastydeath> hmm