#emc | Logs for 2009-09-17

[00:08:29] <tom3p> Valen? to get 'step response' ( measure ture acc time ) on a servo, you just need a battery and a switch.
[00:08:30] <tom3p> Be careful, you have no CNC, and maybe no estop or limits.
[00:08:30] <tom3p> Bullock wrote for many years on servo setup http://www.ctc-control.com/customer/elearning/servotut/pid.asp
[00:08:30] <tom3p> and this is good too http://www.me.berkeley.edu/ME107B_feedback/labdesc.pdf
[00:08:30] <tom3p> but the test you want... its just jack the max Vcmd into a live amp and loaded joint and watch the tacho!
[00:09:46] <tom3p> oh yeah, its nice if the switch goes from 8V to a shorted input ( you can see any drift/offset in the amp )
[00:13:14] <tom3p> and, if you observe the time to accel in AXIS you will be watching the 'closed loop' response.
[00:34:42] <tom3p> Valen: ^^ scroll back or look at irc logs
[00:35:20] <Valen> !log
[00:35:31] <Valen> hmm it was something like that
[00:36:39] <Valen> ahh there it be
[00:36:44] <BJT_Shop> logger-emc
[00:36:53] <BJT_Shop> something like that
[00:37:01] <BJT_Shop> logger_emc log
[00:37:02] <Valen> http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/
[00:37:11] <Valen> google won ;->
[00:37:29] <BJT_Shop> logger_emc:log
[00:37:46] <BJT_Shop> give me a play back Jordi
[00:37:48] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[00:37:48] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-09-17.txt
[00:38:06] <BJT_Shop> yea! skunkworks to the rescue
[00:38:36] <skunkworks> hey - I do what I can! :)
[00:39:37] <skunkworks> so - carbon filled teflon piston rings are good to 500deg F
[00:40:07] <Valen> wouldnt work too good in my car
[00:40:36] <skunkworks> looking for non lubricated application
[00:43:45] <Valen> was there anything in paticular I was sposed to be looking at in the logs?
[00:44:10] <BJT_Shop> YEA! the wing is back together and I'm not bleeding and I found the two lost bits that fell in the middle
[00:45:16] <Valen> building a plane?
[00:46:55] <BJT_Shop> goldwing
[00:47:10] <Valen> so a 2 wheeled truck then ;->
[00:47:27] <Jymm> BJT_Shop: another one?!
[00:48:06] <BJT_Shop> no I put some armrests on for the wife and a volume control for the passenger headset
[00:48:35] <Jymm> BJT_Shop: not built into the helmet?
[00:48:47] <Jymm> oh, headrest. nm
[00:49:18] <BJT_Shop> no and I like the stereo a bit on the loud side
[00:49:34] <Jymm> BJT_Shop: WHAT DID YOU SAY ?!?!?!?!?!?!
[00:49:50] <BJT_Shop> huh
[00:50:06] <Jymm> BJT_Shop: (that's me yelling over your stereo)
[00:50:10] <BJT_Shop> * BJT_Shop is a veteran cosmic rocker
[00:50:40] <Jymm> O_o
[00:50:46] <Jymm> easy rider???
[00:50:56] <BJT_Shop> LOL
[00:51:19] <BJT_Shop> now I gotta get it cleaned up for the weekend we are going a charity ride
[00:51:55] <Jymm> Too early for toys for tots - isnt it?
[00:52:36] <BJT_Shop> yea, this is ms for kids I think
[00:52:45] <Jymm> ah
[00:52:47] <BJT_Shop> or something like that
[00:52:51] <Jymm> heh
[00:52:55] <BJT_Shop> I forget at the moment
[00:53:06] <BJT_Shop> must be sometimers
[00:54:07] <Jymm> fundraising for the endangerment of the wet tshirt
[00:54:51] <BJT_Shop> I'm in favor of no shirt
[00:55:16] <Jymm> Well, that is just implied.
[00:55:27] <Jymm> and usually ends that way
[01:14:57] <BJT_Shop> good night all
[01:21:52] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[05:11:51] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[06:00:02] <jst_home_> jst_home_ is now known as jst_home
[09:04:01] <maximilian_h> Hello, is there a way to display tools in different color in the axis preview ?
[09:04:53] <maximilian_h> say. Green for tool one, blue for tool two, etc. Or maybe just different line styles ? Like dash, dash-dotted etc
[09:06:10] <archivist> that needs an overhaul so shape also matches
[09:07:10] <maximilian_h> hello archivist. Did you answer to my question ? I did not understand what you mean
[10:05:10] <pjm> good morning
[10:06:24] <archivist> good moaning
[10:06:33] <pjm> hows it going?
[10:06:42] <archivist> I hate waiting for the post for spares
[10:07:07] <archivist> the Z drive failed in the starturn
[10:12:02] <pjm> ah yes u mentioned the other day, what went pop?
[10:15:44] <archivist> I changed the L298 and its still borked, must be the L297
[10:26:20] <pjm> i put my mesa cards onto a ally plate yesterday ready to start getting my head around them
[10:26:33] <pjm> i cant wait to try them with the spindle encoder running at full bollock
[10:27:22] <pjm> i have a pair of DRO slides too, 0.5thou resolution, so I'm also thinking if its possible to use those on X/Y axis to give better positioning
[10:30:28] <archivist> im quoting on a job that means I should do the spindle encoder on the mill
[10:34:27] <pjm> excellant
[10:34:55] <archivist> but no moneyz for the mesanet card
[10:35:23] <pjm> i got mine 2nd hand from a mate in the US
[10:35:30] <pjm> only paid him 1$ for them too
[10:35:46] <archivist> lucky bar steward
[10:36:14] <pjm> hah
[10:36:31] <pjm> i had to buy them for him originally though
[10:36:36] <pjm> so it still cost some
[10:39:49] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[11:00:53] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[11:15:09] <numen> hi
[11:39:01] <maximilian_h> Does anybody know if it is possible to have the display show different tools in different colors or line styles ?
[11:42:48] <jthornton> I don't think you can
[11:44:46] <maximilian_h> Hello jthornton, too bad
[11:45:09] <maximilian_h> do you happen to know where the responsible code is ?
[11:50:44] <jthornton> for axis?
[12:16:41] <Valen> hey archivist hows stuff
[12:18:59] <archivist> ok
[12:19:15] <Valen> night off tonight ;->
[12:19:30] <Valen> drinking lolly water and watching junkyard wars
[12:37:16] <Valen> going to get the X-Y table running nicley tomorrow hopefully so it can start cutting bits for the Z
[12:42:26] <Valen> upping the power I had to add a derivative term to the PID loop to keep the control nice
[12:43:02] <Valen> it is 0.015 or so but when it was running at 12v any D term seemed to make it run very rough
[12:43:24] <Valen> hmm I should probably start making up a wiki page on our setup
[12:44:01] <archivist> A few more servo setup cases helps
[12:44:19] <Valen> its the little things like the current limit that throw you
[12:45:05] <Valen> there any designs you know floating about for general purpose I/O connections to mesa stuff?
[12:47:12] <Valen> pjm what sort of accuracy are you hitting now?
[12:47:32] <pjm> well its pretty good, 2 to 3 thou of slop on the X and Y
[12:47:48] <pjm> but replacement ballscrews +bearings could probably fix that
[12:47:49] <Valen> know what that is in mm?
[12:47:55] <pjm> one sec
[12:47:59] <Valen> you using acme?
[12:48:18] <pjm> about 0.05mm
[12:49:01] <Valen> that's still pretty good really
[12:49:11] <pjm> btw did u look at http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/08/optoisolator-cards-for-mesa-5i20-servocard/ re the Mesa IO
[12:49:29] <Valen> is that what your parts come out at or what you can flop the mill about to?
[12:49:40] <Valen> that looks like the stuff ;->
[12:49:55] <pjm> yeah thats what the mill slops around at
[12:50:11] <pjm> if u push hard on the table whilst measing something with a clock
[12:50:23] <Valen> so you using ballscrews now?
[12:50:37] <pjm> yeah
[12:50:51] <Valen> you could try our 2nd ballnut approach
[12:51:00] <pjm> ah yes i forgot to answer, dunno what type, i salvaged them out of some machine
[12:51:22] <Valen> we are still just playing with things but pushing as hard as the both of us can we get ~.01mm or so
[12:51:34] <pjm> http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/cnc_built_photos_etc/xaxisleadscrew.jpg
[12:51:58] <pjm> that is a foto of the screw whilst I was building the machine
[12:52:10] <Valen> shiny ;->
[12:52:30] <Valen> looks like there is plenty of room to stick another nut in if you wanted to try it,
[12:52:31] <pjm> but yeah a 2nd ball nut assy might be the answer
[12:52:52] <pjm> it was a royal pain in the arse populating the last ball nut again with new balls
[12:53:00] <Valen> we were going to use valve springs but wound up with belville nuts and some screw thread arrangement
[12:53:12] <pjm> i thoguht they were captive, so took out the lead screw, all of a sudden they were all over the floor
[12:53:15] <Valen> it will signifigantly increase the friction in the table
[12:53:21] <Valen> rofl, Dad did the same thing
[12:53:27] <pjm> yeah it was amusing
[12:53:36] <pjm> then i had the balls ache of refitting it all
[12:53:40] <Valen> I'm sure it was more amusing to me than either of you
[12:53:52] <Valen> he lost a few of them too
[12:54:02] <Valen> now we have a spare hundred
[12:54:05] <pjm> ended up slopping lithium grease in there, and sticking the balls back into it
[12:54:26] <Valen> I think he did it with a cardboard tube with a hole in it
[12:54:38] <Valen> then slid the whole thing over the end of the shaft
[12:54:53] <Valen> what you using for servos?
[12:54:59] <pjm> its a stepper machine
[12:55:03] <Valen> ahh
[12:55:12] <pjm> one day i'll make it proper
[12:55:18] <Valen> ey if you have a decent scale servo upgrade seems ok ;->
[12:55:34] <pjm> yeah well i did wonder about using scales
[12:55:36] <Valen> I figure with our .001mm scales its like having 5000 counts per revolution
[12:55:52] <pjm> perhaps i'll fit them first and see if its possible to use them for feedback with the steppers
[12:56:06] <Valen> I do wonder if encoders on the motors (high speed ones) will help with the accuracy
[12:56:27] <pjm> re the mesa cards, i cheated and bought some of the terminal block IO cards from mesa
[12:56:28] <Valen> I hear you can't, From what i've heard you can only use scales to give a ferror trip with steppers?
[12:56:38] <pjm> yeah that would make sense
[12:56:42] <pjm> that is a start though
[12:56:55] <Valen> it'll help you calibrate your screw as well
[12:57:20] <pjm> yeah thats a good idea, i could some how use them to cal any non linearity out
[12:57:21] <Valen> (we just got cheap screws of ebay)
[12:57:48] <pjm> mine came out of some glass etching machine that was used to write txt on reed switch envelopes
[12:57:59] <pjm> they wouldnt let me have the laser that went with it though ;-(
[12:58:06] <Valen> i'd imagine they are pretty high spec
[12:58:11] <Valen> that would have been nice ;->
[12:58:27] <pjm> yeah they are not bad lead screws, they certainly seem to do the job nicely
[12:58:45] <Valen> did you make the table or is it a conversion?
[12:58:52] <pjm> the Z axis uses an imperial lead screw with 2 of these plastic nut things that u can adjust the slop out
[12:59:15] <Valen> better than what our mill came with lol
[12:59:15] <pjm> the table was from the scrap yard, originally with handwheels and really crappy screws
[12:59:44] <Valen> it had an acme screw, and the nut had a slot cut in it so you could crush half the nut down
[12:59:58] <Valen> basically just made it harder to turn without actually affecting backlash at all
[13:00:07] <pjm> http://pjm.dyndns.org/cam/cnc_built_photos_etc/zmount3.jpg u can see the red 'nut' for the Z lead screw, there is another one of these at the bottom of the Z
[13:00:22] <pjm> yeah that is what was on this XY table
[13:00:56] <Valen> we are replacing the built in Z axis with this monstorous contraption dad is desiging
[13:01:02] <pjm> anyway my immediate task is to get my machine controlled by the mesa cards rather than parport stepgen
[13:01:15] <Valen> your going mesa + steppers?
[13:01:35] <pjm> initially yeah
[13:01:50] <pjm> i thought i'd do a phased move, first to mesa control of everything
[13:02:01] <pjm> then add the linear scales & play with that
[13:02:05] <pjm> then think about servo
[13:02:15] <Valen> heh we just jumped in the deeeeeeep end
[13:02:16] <pjm> i want to get my closed loop spindle stuff sorted too
[13:02:32] <pjm> ah i am a cheapskate so want to do everything for nothing!
[13:02:39] <Valen> yeah we need to do that too, I'm still wondering how to go about it though
[13:02:54] <Valen> ey our motors cost us $80 or so delivered (for all 3)
[13:02:59] <Valen> and thats new
[13:03:01] <pjm> not bad
[13:03:11] <Valen> 500W scooter motors ;->
[13:03:21] <pjm> i've had some lucky finds that have really helped with my machine build
[13:03:27] <Valen> only down side is they want a few more amps than the 7i40's can put out
[13:03:43] <pjm> plus i have a paying job i'm running on it, so the proceeds from that will go to buy upgrades
[13:03:54] <Valen> nice, what you making?
[13:04:17] <Valen> if its not too intrusive to ask
[13:04:39] <pjm> only some PSU boxes for a friend of mine, it has various cut outs that need doing
[13:04:47] <pjm> so i made a quick change fixture
[13:05:05] <pjm> ah i even have a foto! http://pjm.dyndns.org/fix.jpg
[13:05:31] <pjm> its only injection moulded plastic, so all the cutouts are being done with a 1mm fc3
[13:06:05] <Valen> funky
[13:06:13] <Valen> dad loves over the center clamps
[13:06:23] <Valen> wants to use them for everything
[13:06:37] <pjm> me too, i found a few in my boxes of crap, it was the first time i'd used them and they seem pretty neat
[13:07:09] <Valen> he was blow forming plastic for motor bike screens,
[13:07:22] <Valen> they would get this bit of plastic out of the oven at ~300C
[13:07:43] <Valen> put it onto a felt table that had a small air hole in it
[13:07:59] <Valen> stick a hunk of plywood with the middle cut out into a paticular shape
[13:08:07] <Valen> on top of the hot plastic
[13:08:42] <Valen> then pull on about 4000 clamps all of which were bastard tight, then blow air into the table and inflate the bubble
[13:08:56] <pjm> nice method
[13:09:23] <pjm> how was the bubble properly sized? a known volume of air or something else?
[13:09:26] <Valen> the clamps were his improvement, before that they just had a set of ~8 vice grips that they tried to get on
[13:09:45] <Valen> initally the owner of the shop would just say "thats it" and turn the air off,
[13:10:13] <Valen> he knew by eye (roughly) the size of all the different bubbles for ~300 different bikes
[13:10:25] <Valen> they all had their own wooden bit too
[13:10:31] <pjm> heh cool
[13:10:49] <pjm> that sounds like a nice project to automate
[13:11:01] <Valen> dad made up a system with an IR beam and reciever, a pole with a measuring tape on it and a solenoid
[13:11:30] <Valen> so they could just set the beam to the right height and blow the bubble, It'd then turn the air off and on to keep it at the right height as it cooled
[13:11:46] <pjm> yeah a good idea
[13:12:07] <pjm> btw this double ball nut system sounds interesting, I'll have to see if I can find another suitable ballnut
[13:12:15] <Valen> it was all mounted to a steel bar (the IR setup)
[13:12:24] <pjm> problem is i dont have the spec of the stuff in there because it was all c**p off the scrap yard
[13:12:57] <Valen> only problem was the coldness of the bar would actually cause a dimple in the bubble at the top and for a few bubbles they actually cut a 3rd screen from that bit
[13:13:17] <pjm> ah yes i see
[13:13:20] <Valen> IE 2x type A screens, one from either end, and another type X screen cut from the gap
[13:13:28] <Valen> you wouldn't think it would bother it
[13:13:48] <Valen> It was pretty rare though and i think he just put some big spacers in
[13:14:10] <Valen> linearmotionproducts on ebay seems to have loads of good stuff at super cheap prices
[13:14:25] <Valen> we got all the nuts and screws for our system for ~$500 Au I think
[13:16:04] <pjm> ah right i will check them out, it would be certainly an excellant idea if i could simple fit 2 more nuts to my existing system
[13:16:20] <pjm> it would save a lot of effort in replacing all the screws etc
[13:16:37] <pjm> basically it would need a complete refit of the table
[13:16:58] <Valen> do you have angular contact bearings on the end of the screws?
[13:17:02] <Valen> on one end rather
[13:17:19] <pjm> yeah on the stepper end
[13:17:29] <pjm> and normal ball races on the non motor end
[13:17:40] <Valen> yeah thats all we have
[13:17:59] <pjm> i've put a clock on the end of the lead screw and cannot see it moving length wise
[13:18:07] <pjm> so its pretty sturdy
[13:18:54] <Valen> dear lord you want to be careful searching for stuff on ebay
[13:18:56] <Valen> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LOT-OF-4-18K-GOLD-PLATED-BALL-NOSE-RINGS-SCREWS-18G_W0QQitemZ290341356206QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4399b182ae&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[13:19:50] <Valen> yeah this is the guy
[13:19:52] <Valen> http://myworld.ebay.com.au/linearmotionbearings2008/
[13:19:56] <pjm> ok thanks
[13:20:00] <pjm> i'll have a look
[13:22:43] <pjm> actually that seller has some pretty good value stuff
[13:22:52] <Dave911> Hi guys...
[13:22:54] <Dave911> A question about installing a second parallel port - in this case a Netmos 9805 single LPT port in a PCI slot.
[13:22:55] <Dave911> I am trying to figure out how to use this port. This card normally requires a driver being loaded in Windows. How is this handled in Ubuntu?
[13:22:57] <Valen> yeah like really lots lol
[13:22:57] <Dave911> I read the integrators manual and got to page 94 and found "loadrt probe_parport" which appears to allow the PC to discover Plug and play hardware....
[13:22:58] <Dave911> I get an error back after the command: bash: loadrt: command not found
[13:23:00] <Dave911> Obviously I am doing at least one thing wrong here - does anyone know what I should do next ?? Thanks
[13:23:24] <Valen> odds are just sticking it in will let linux see it
[13:23:38] <Valen> the loadrt stuff needs to go into a HAL file somewhere, that bit i'm not too sure of
[13:23:43] <Valen> are you on the machine now?
[13:23:57] <pjm> no i'm on my laptop
[13:24:00] <Dave911> The PC is in the other room from me ...
[13:24:11] <pjm> ah not me ;-)
[13:24:28] <Dave911> sorry - I'm jumping in here I guess
[13:24:46] <pjm> no prob, i have gone thru this pain with multiple parports
[13:24:52] <Dave911> How do I know if linux sees it - sorry linux newbie
[13:25:00] <pjm> the way i did it was to modprobe parport_pc
[13:25:14] <pjm> then dmesg to see if it was probed properly
[13:25:19] <pjm> if so, lspci -vv
[13:25:24] <pjm> to check the addresses
[13:25:39] <pjm> then rmmod the parport pc and add the addresses into your emc config
[13:26:44] <Valen> odds are you dont need to do the modprobe
[13:26:48] <Valen> just do the lspci first
[13:26:53] <Dave911> So I do this from the terminal screen correct?
[13:26:57] <Valen> yes
[13:27:06] <Valen> applications accessories terminal
[13:27:18] <Valen> first up just do lspci and see if you see anything that looks right
[13:27:43] <Dave911> Yep, that is where I was before - I'll go check this and report back in a minute .. Thanks!
[13:27:46] <Valen> the manufacturer etc might come up as something completley different to whats on the actual card
[13:27:52] <Valen> is the machine on the internet?
[13:28:20] <Dave911> Yes, the PC is plugged into my router
[13:28:29] <pjm> ah yes i had to do the modprobe with one of my cards to initialise it
[13:28:45] <Valen> if thats the case your best off getting on here from there
[13:28:53] <Valen> it'll make your life easier ;->
[13:29:01] <pjm> i currently have 5 parports in my machine, hopefully not much longer!
[13:29:28] <Valen> pjm that is really not nice ;->
[13:29:44] <Valen> what mesa card are you looking at?
[13:29:46] <pjm> LOL yeah it is nasty, but at the time was all i could have!
[13:29:47] <Dave911> Well, this PC is about to go into my truck and then visit the shop where my lathe is for some tests ... I have a lot PCs .. ;-)
[13:29:55] <pjm> i have bought a 7i43 + a couple of IO cards
[13:29:59] <Dave911> I'll be right back
[13:32:11] <Valen> does 8.04 have the add remove button in applications?
[13:33:11] <pjm> not sure without firing it up!
[13:33:18] <Valen> heh same
[13:33:30] <Valen> I was thinking of getting Dave911 to install xchat
[13:33:39] <pjm> my emc box is the only ubuntu linux box i have here, the rest are slackware
[13:33:52] <Valen> everything I have is ubuntu ;->
[13:33:57] <Valen> i am a fanboy
[13:34:10] <pjm> hahh i'll not say anything nasty about it then!
[13:34:14] <Valen> there is one windows machine in the house for the missus to play games on
[13:34:53] <pjm> i should reinstall a proper OS on this laptop, all it is for is multiple ssh sessions and xchat
[13:35:09] <pjm> its a crappy old thinkpad, about P3 450 or something
[13:35:22] <Valen> I've been burnt for red-hat style distros, because people keep asking me to get new hardware working on 5 year old versions of stuff
[13:35:23] <archivist> I use ubuntu here mostly now
[13:35:37] <Valen> I hear nice things about slackware though
[13:35:47] <pjm> its alright if u dont like bloat
[13:36:03] <Valen> I thought it was good for that (in terms of servers)
[13:36:05] <pjm> i hear that if u install a gui on it u then get a lot of helpers
[13:36:16] <pjm> yeah i use it for servers, its quick and generally secure
[13:36:32] <pjm> i haev some boxen at work with hundreds of days uptime running slack
[13:36:38] <Valen> oh I do have a debian VM or 2 running a mail server or 2, mainly due to version differences between ubuntu and debian
[13:36:48] <Valen> nice
[13:36:58] <pjm> i must update my email some time, i'm still using pine
[13:37:20] <Valen> I use thunderbird
[13:37:28] <Valen> for some reason I hate evolution
[13:37:31] <pjm> does that need a gui ?
[13:38:35] <pjm> if so i'd have to replace my CGA monitor
[13:39:01] <Valen> I have 2x 24" 1080p monitors
[13:39:12] <Valen> they might be 23"
[13:39:12] <pjm> very nice indeed
[13:39:20] <Valen> tax time was good to me ;->
[13:39:26] <pjm> brb just need to pop up to the post office
[13:39:31] <Valen> I used to have a 17" and a 19"
[13:39:35] <Valen> have the fun
[13:39:41] <Valen> or a pie
[13:39:45] <Valen> yaknow whichever
[13:40:02] <Valen> damn I could so go a pie but its 11:40PM here
[13:57:32] <Dave911> Hi guys - I'm back - I ran the lspci -vv command and linux sees the PCI Netmos card
[13:57:53] <Dave911> But it shows a number of I/O ports - starting at 1000
[13:58:16] <cradek> try 'em all
[13:58:17] <Dave911> Ironically the command does not show the onboard LPT port that is at 378
[13:58:32] <cradek> that is normal. it only shows pci cards.
[13:59:23] <Dave911> Ohh..... ok...
[13:59:25] <Dave911> Say - since I am a linux newbie - is there a place where these commands are described??
[14:00:02] <Valen> which ones?
[14:00:10] <pjm> * pjm back
[14:00:18] <Valen> get a pie?
[14:00:28] <pjm> hahh no, i had to post off my expenses to work
[14:00:41] <Dave911> Like "lspci -vv"
[14:00:57] <Valen> the command is lspci
[14:00:58] <cradek> commands are generally described in man pages
[14:01:01] <archivist> man lspci
[14:01:05] <Valen> the -vv is an option to tell it to be more verbose
[14:01:13] <Valen> most commands have an associated man page
[14:01:15] <cradek> yeah if you run 'man lspci' you'll see all the options for that command
[14:01:16] <archivist> -vvv is more
[14:01:42] <Valen> you can also do things like lspci | more and it'll give you the info a page at a time
[14:02:05] <archivist> less is better than more
[14:02:32] <pjm> hah is it?
[14:02:36] <Valen> I prefer more than less
[14:02:37] <archivist> yup
[14:02:40] <Dave911> >> lspci | more
[14:02:42] <Dave911> Very dos like - I can handle that .. ;-)
[14:02:43] <Dave911> Yes I can see how you can get into info overload with some of these verbose options..
[14:03:13] <Dave911> Well I really meant to say a much more basic question - how did you know to use the lspci command?
[14:03:16] <archivist> * archivist bets parts of less being folded into more
[14:03:29] <Valen> but yeah now that i have tried less i think i like it more ;-.
[14:03:36] <Dave911> I think I may need Linux for dummies or something similar
[14:03:46] <Valen> or just play around with it for a while
[14:03:54] <Valen> if you hit a problem google it ;->
[14:04:06] <archivist> Dave911, man lspci in a terminal window
[14:04:22] <Valen> archivist, he was asking how we knew to use the lspci command
[14:04:34] <archivist> old age
[14:04:46] <Dave911> OK... google - I don't know how I lived without that before ..
[14:04:49] <archivist> and its in the emc manual
[14:04:58] <Valen> I'm 26 don't call me old *sob* i already have grey hairs
[14:05:12] <Valen> ey does that mean i can be a young greybeard?
[14:05:16] <archivist> heh kids
[14:05:22] <skunkworks_> I have been grey since highschool.
[14:05:25] <Dave911> What is the best way to "try" - a lpt port? Hey at least you have hair!
[14:05:33] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:05:43] <Valen> I think theres less of that than there was
[14:06:06] <Valen> plug a printer into it?
[14:06:13] <Dave911> I'm thinking attach stepper driver - go back to step conf - add port - reassign pins etc?
[14:06:20] <Valen> although in linux thats probably a bad idea
[14:06:22] <Valen> cups sucks
[14:07:04] <Valen> Dave911 next time your on that machine in the terminal window put in "sudo apt-get install xchat" (no quotes)
[14:07:07] <Dave911> >> plug a printer into it? >although in linux thats probably a bad idea
[14:07:09] <Dave911> Whew that was close - I was going to look really silly if that was the answer.. :-)
[14:07:50] <Valen> then in applications internet you should have an irc client, so you can talk to us
[14:08:03] <Valen> when it asks for a password its your login password
[14:08:26] <Valen> Oh i don't know if its mentioned in the docs but you can set it to auto login as well, just to make life a little easier
[14:10:23] <Dave911> Auto logon - that is an excellent idea.... I'll stick the IRC chat client on the computer - good idea ..
[14:10:48] <Valen> twas invaluable to me
[14:12:02] <archivist> one of the first jobs now is install xchat and browser and setup networking
[14:12:34] <Valen> we were thinking about running wireless, but I pushed for wired
[14:12:37] <Dave911> After I loaded this new PC off the Hardy Heron live CD - I had it plugged into the net and it told me that I should do some updates.. should I do the updates - or is that a bad idea??
[14:12:39] <Valen> somewhat glad i did
[14:13:04] <Valen> they are generally a good idea
[14:13:08] <Valen> especially if you havent used it and changed the setup much
[14:13:30] <Valen> there could be quite a large amount of them so watch for that if your bandwidth is tight
[14:14:05] <Dave911> The Hardy Heron install is about 24 hours old - I have a pretty big internet hose so bandwidth is not a problem - I just didn't want to update something and screw something up
[14:14:20] <Valen> also your ISP might provide a mirror of the ubuntu stuff, If you use that normally its unmetered and way faster than using the ubuntu servers
[14:14:44] <Valen> nah you shouldn't have a problem installing updates until you start doing more funky stuff
[14:14:52] <Valen> (custom video drivers, or emc versions etc)
[14:15:29] <Dave911> The browser and networking was hot as soon as I loaded the live cd - Ubuntu is pretty impressive! I think I am hooked!
[14:15:54] <Valen> oh if you can use an up to date linux hardware support is way better than windows
[14:16:10] <Valen> except for wireless cards ;->
[14:16:17] <Valen> most of those suck ass
[14:16:42] <Dave911> What is the best way to do wireless with Ubuntu?
[14:16:52] <Valen> run cat 5 ;->
[14:16:59] <pjm> LOL
[14:17:28] <Valen> basically before you buy a card, look for ones that work out of the box
[14:17:29] <Dave911> I like the cat 5 solution also ---- when I forget to plug it in - I call that wireless .. ;-)
[14:17:37] <Valen> then go and try to find the exact same model
[14:17:58] <Valen> lots of times changing between a V2 and V3 of the same Ma311 or whatever will kill it
[14:18:13] <Valen> sometimes its nice
[14:18:51] <Dave911> >>look for ones that work out of the box
[14:18:52] <Dave911> Via google - etc?
[14:18:55] <Valen> I had a MA111 USB wifi adaptor that I got all settled in to bash into getting working, plugged it in, and then network manager popped up asking me which wireless network i'd like to steal
[14:19:00] <Valen> i mean login to
[14:19:14] <Valen> yeah, look for results in the forums etc
[14:19:29] <Valen> or use the words "out of the box"
[14:19:56] <Valen> but yeah, do homework before buying stuff like that or you can wind up with a real pain in the ass
[14:21:07] <Dave911> I just did a quick search on the MA111 USB adapter and found references for it via the Linux questions page
[14:21:41] <Valen> heh yeah 2.4 kernels are some years old
[14:21:48] <maximilian_h> about the wifi stuff: Be very careful with model numbers because vendors change chipsets but call the thing the same name
[14:22:09] <Dave911> Perhaps an easier way would be just to grab a wireless router and let it setup a DHCP server and then plug into that?? I think I have one of those lying around here someplace ..
[14:22:11] <Valen> that stuff is now out of the box
[14:22:39] <Valen> if you have wifi adaptors floating about stick them in the box and try it
[14:22:48] <Valen> wifi support has been getting better of late
[14:23:01] <Valen> dunno how much of that will be in 8.04 but it shouldn't be too bad
[14:23:53] <Dave911> Looks to me like everything Linux and EMC2 has improved greatly over the last few years ... I'm really impressed.
[14:24:24] <pjm> EMC2 is certainly awesome
[14:24:38] <Dave911> Does anyone know right off hand if a Netmos 9805 PCI card is a 5 volt port card?
[14:24:58] <pjm> PCI bus voltage?
[14:25:42] <Dave911> Heck if I know ... This is the Intel 945 Mini Itx Dual core atom board ... I forget the model number
[14:25:54] <Valen> oh nice
[14:25:57] <cradek> Dave911: I use one of these on my mill: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130330592506
[14:26:31] <Valen> if your using the parallel port you might think about compiling your own EMC and linux kernel
[14:26:35] <cradek> it has an ethernet plug on the back. linux doesn't even know that it has a wireless connection.
[14:27:03] <Valen> I did that on ours, by default the kernel that ships with emc only uses one cpu
[14:27:15] <Dave911> I've got one of those Net11 units - they are nice - but if I unplug it my daughters will be mad at me as it connects their PC to the net :-)
[14:27:27] <Valen> if you do it you can get really spectacular latency numbers
[14:27:31] <pjm> Dave911 the datasheet for the netmos 9805 says its a 5v device with 5v IO http://asemglobal.com/pdf/Nm9805.pdf
[14:27:43] <cradek> get another one - they're cheap - so much easier than messing with crappy usb wireless adapters
[14:27:54] <Valen> yeah
[14:28:17] <Valen> compiling kernels and emc and the like isn't for the faint of heart though
[14:28:29] <Dave911> OK, I'll grab another one off I guess - I doubt that still make those now..
[14:28:51] <Valen> if you have any spare wifi devices stick them in the machine, you could well be plesantly suprised
[14:29:01] <cradek> yeah I wouldn't know how to pick out a new-modern equivalent to this simple device
[14:29:11] <Valen> they do exist
[14:29:17] <cradek> consumer network stuff is getting crappier and crappier as they try to add features they think people want
[14:29:21] <Valen> I put some into a display somewhere
[14:29:30] <Valen> but yeah, they were a bit crappy
[14:29:43] <Valen> I am not buying any linksys stuff anymore
[14:29:49] <Dave911> >>consumer network stuff is getting crappier and crappier
[14:29:50] <Valen> tired of their crap overheating and dying
[14:29:51] <Dave911> I agree. I think the quality of PC hardware in general is going downhill
[14:30:05] <Valen> gigabyte motherboards are really good nowdays
[14:30:12] <Valen> the all solid capacitors etc
[14:30:21] <Valen> really quite bulletproof
[14:30:29] <Valen> intel core2 series stuff also nice
[14:30:35] <Dave911> I've had a number of PC power supply failures - I replace them and the replacements last half the lenght of the ones I replaced! :-(
[14:30:46] <Valen> buy heavy ones
[14:30:56] <Valen> seriously, i purchase them by weight
[14:31:05] <Valen> and check to make sure there are no steel weights in them
[14:31:09] <Valen> I have seen that done
[14:31:28] <Dave911> Steel weights ?? That is crazy.
[14:31:38] <Valen> also don't cheap out on them, I get the heaviest $50 psu in the shop
[14:31:39] <skunkworks_> best latency I have gotten is with the goal3 boards so far. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/goal3screenshot.png
[14:32:13] <Valen> thats not bad
[14:32:13] <Dave911> I had some problems with Gigabyte MBs before - and I have stuck with Asus for a while. But I bought a bunch of supermicro boards for a customers and they are really nice - but not cheap
[14:32:27] <Valen> for some reason I dislike supermicro
[14:32:39] <Valen> don't know what it is
[14:32:50] <skunkworks_> I have used a lot of supermicro motherboards for servers.
[14:33:17] <Valen> skunkworks, my SMP machine was hitting ~3000 while runing with the nvidia binary driver and pushing 14kfps or something in glxgears
[14:33:19] <Dave911> I bought 3 supermicro cases recently for a customer with 645 watt power supplies - nice and heavy cases - like the old days
[14:33:37] <Valen> might have just been the job i was doing that put me off
[14:34:45] <Dave911> I saw a working 7 year old supermicro MB on ebay for sale the other day - it was a running dual cpu model that was a running take out -- pretty impressive I thought
[14:34:46] <Dave911> I have about 12 systems I assembled with supermicro boards 3 years ago and none have failed.
[14:35:37] <Valen> ey pjm how much did the vfd and encoder cost?
[14:36:06] <skunkworks_> yep - I have never had a supermicro board fail.
[14:36:18] <Valen> I had a gigabyte solid cap board fail
[14:36:25] <Valen> but that was after a mouse had nested on it
[14:36:32] <skunkworks_> I just retired one that I built pre2000
[14:36:39] <Valen> (with all the associated peeing and crapping everywhere)
[14:36:43] <Dave911> Valen - what is a SMP machine?
[14:36:55] <Valen> simetric multi processing
[14:36:58] <archivist> coffee killed one gigabyte board
[14:37:00] <Valen> IE multiple CPU's
[14:37:48] <Dave911> >IE multiple CPU's
[14:37:50] <Dave911> Ahh... I thought it was a brand I was not familar with..
[14:38:01] <Valen> oh yeah archivist, mysql question for you, in the 5 series can you get it to send heartbeat packets for replication
[14:38:06] <Dave911> Mice can do tremendous damage
[14:38:21] <archivist> Valen, slave sucks
[14:38:24] <Valen> atm i have a nasty hack involving a cron job a spare table and a now() statement
[14:38:39] <Valen> I have multi-master replication setup
[14:39:03] <archivist> multimaster requires expertise
[14:39:33] <Valen> well it is all working currently, and i know there is an actual heartbeat option in 6
[14:39:46] <pjm> Valen the VFD was £5 initially, plus £50 when i accidentially blew up the module
[14:39:50] <archivist> 6 is retired
[14:39:56] <Valen> its just the firewall at the other end drops the connection after a few minutes
[14:39:58] <pjm> and the 360ppr encoder was something like 8£ off ebay
[14:40:13] <Valen> damn, I need better scrap yards lol
[14:40:36] <pjm> Valen most of it is written up at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
[14:40:59] <Valen> yeah thats what i was looking at
[14:41:04] <Valen> somebody posted it on the list
[14:41:17] <pjm> ah really, today?
[14:41:37] <pjm> the rigid tapping on the mill is as smooth as
[14:41:42] <Valen> could be
[14:41:43] <pjm> never broken a tap yet
[14:41:56] <Valen> 17/09/09 3:30 sam sokolik
[14:42:56] <skunkworks_> ?
[14:43:09] <Valen> person who posted pjm's wiki page
[14:43:12] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:43:21] <Dave911> PJM - Thanks for the lookup on the 9805 card!
[14:43:22] <Dave911> Does anyone have experience with the GS2 (Automation direct) driver for EMC2?
[14:43:22] <skunkworks_> I always post his video... ;)
[14:43:34] <Valen> think it would work to have something like a hall pickup on the spindle for rigid tapping?
[14:43:49] <Valen> IE 1 PPR
[14:44:07] <skunkworks_> no
[14:44:08] <Valen> having some difficulty working out where to put an encoder on our mill
[14:44:38] <Valen> I'd like it to be on the spindle so it doesn't get confused with all the backlash in the gear train
[14:44:47] <Dave911> >>IE 1 PPR
[14:44:49] <Valen> problem is the spindle moves a whole bunch
[14:44:49] <Dave911> Is that possible?
[14:45:01] <Valen> evidently not ;->
[14:45:24] <pjm> i did make an encoder disk to fit around the spindle on my mill before doing it properly
[14:45:26] <cradek> how would you tell which way the spindle is turning with 1ppr?
[14:45:39] <cradek> PULSE PULSE ... PULSE ..... PULSE PULSE ... PULSE
[14:45:40] <cradek> uhhh
[14:45:57] <cradek> emc2 is good but not magic :-)
[14:46:26] <Dave911> >>emc2 is good but not magic :-)
[14:46:28] <Dave911> The bubble has burst ..... ;-)
[14:46:50] <Dave911> What about just doing threading with 1PPR?
[14:47:04] <cradek> that can work ok if your spindle speed is very stable
[14:47:24] <cradek> better on a powerful lathe than a light one
[14:47:45] <Dave911> So do you just feed the index pulse input and leave off the encoder A and B pulse inputs?
[14:49:35] <cradek> yes the software encoder component has a single-input mode (counter mode) and interpolated position output - you use those
[14:50:00] <cradek> but a real encoder is always better
[14:50:58] <Dave911> The manual also says you can just use the Index and A pulse for threading and not go quadrature - obviously direction will not be known then also
[14:51:59] <cradek> right, that's the same as what I just said, but less detail of how to hook it up in hal
[14:52:36] <Dave911> If you aren't doing rigid tapping and no noise issues from the encoder then quadrature really shouldn't matter a far as accuracy ? correct?
[14:54:29] <Dave911> I have a lot more reading to do in the integrator manual - but is the details for the spindle encoder setup (single pulse, index plus A, index plus A and B) in the Hal section?
[14:54:31] <cradek> I don't understand the question
[14:55:42] <cradek> an encoder with many counts per revolution lets the Z axis track the spindle position. With one count per revolution, you must guess where it is between pulses - the best guess is to assume it is moving a constant speed - this is sometimes fairly valid if the lathe is powerful - sometimes grossly wrong if the lathe spindle is less powerful
[14:56:20] <cradek> if you have a desktop lathe and hear the spindle slow down when you thread, you will get drunken (wandering) threads with 1ppr
[14:56:38] <cradek> with an encoder you will still get good threads.
[14:57:02] <Dave911> Sorry.... My quest is for max spindle speed while threading with an existing spindle encoder. I believe if I hook up just the index and only channel A and I don't have noise issues that I will be able to go fast but still maintain max resolution for the software. If I go quadrature I need to half the spindle speed to be able to catch all of the edges of the Quad signal
[14:57:03] <cradek> it is not a noise/interference problem at all
[14:57:50] <cradek> you are right - index plus single pulse (counter mode) will let you turn a certain encoder twice as fast for a certain base period, before you start losing count
[14:58:33] <Dave911> Cool - thanks for verifying my thinking....
[14:58:35] <Dave911> This lathe probably won't be able to do rigid tapping as the spindle is very large and the spindle drive motor is 30 kw - so reversing it quickly is not likely.. ;-)
[14:59:18] <pjm> it should not matter the speed of the reversing process if u have a nice encoder that lets EMC2 track the speed properly
[15:00:24] <Dave911> I see your point but I might run out of tap threads before I can reverse the spindle - it is just very large to stop and reverse - lots of momemtum
[15:01:14] <cradek> yes with emc2 the tap will always go a little deeper than you ask for - how deep depends on how fast you're going and how your spindle accelerates
[15:01:21] <cradek> when in doubt just go slower
[15:01:52] <cradek> this is the tradeoff for being able to tap with any old spindle motor
[15:02:32] <Dave911> >> when in doubt just go slower
[15:02:34] <Dave911> Good point - I need to change my thinking about that then.....
[15:02:36] <Dave911> >>this is the tradeoff for being able to tap with any old spindle motor
[15:02:37] <Dave911> That is a good tradeoff!
[15:04:13] <Dave911> I need to go talk to another guy about a different lathe retrofit today. Probably a very large CNC lathe. This thing will likely have 1980's vintage servo drives with resolvers perhaps..
[15:04:13] <piasdom> skunkworks_; did you hear from MarkPictor lately ?
[15:04:14] <cradek> yeah I like it too - and it's not hard to compensate for
[15:04:14] <Dave911> Anything I should watch out for? I know that someone - Jon Elson sells resolver to encoder boards..
[15:04:24] <skunkworks_> piasdom: no - I have not.
[15:04:34] <cradek> yep I use his resolver boards on my lathe
[15:04:48] <cradek> except mine is 70s not 80s
[15:05:14] <Dave911> 70's ... whoa - how did that work out - any pitfalls?
[15:05:21] <cradek> nope, works great
[15:05:29] <piasdom> skunkworks_; last i heard...he had ordered the pcb and would get it(or them) to me
[15:06:07] <Dave911> So if the feed drives and the spindle drive is ok - then that should be practical with resolver assuming the machine isn't junk..
[15:06:14] <piasdom> skunkworks_; i asked you awhile back about the landing(what i call the landing).....
[15:06:48] <piasdom> skunkworks_; whay i needed to know was the width of the endmill needed and the hole sizes
[15:06:58] <cradek> yep it works for me. is his lathe currently working? if so I doubt it'll be overly hard to retrofit.
[15:07:48] <cradek> with the resolvers I get 1/204800 inch resolution on my lathe
[15:08:04] <skunkworks_> I use pointed mills. (that mills a .008" to .010" isolation)
[15:08:13] <Dave911> This shop owner is looking for a used lathe that can swing a 30+ inch diameter disk and he wants it to basically function but all of the lathes he is looking at have really old fanuc controls on them. Antique stuff.
[15:08:43] <piasdom> skunkworks_; i have a .01" pointed
[15:08:47] <Dave911> So we are going to talk today about doing a retrofit on it after he buys it.
[15:09:09] <skunkworks_> http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/mechmill.htm
[15:09:24] <Dave911> He is looking at some 30,000 lb lathes that are going for as little as $15K - less than 50 cents per pound!
[15:09:44] <cradek> 30" is quite a swing
[15:09:57] <Dave911> Machine prices are really in the dumper in the midwest
[15:10:14] <cradek> rust-belt area yes
[15:10:21] <Dave911> Yes - the one lathe he has spotted can do 37" but he only needs 30"
[15:10:37] <cradek> what tolerance is his 30" job?
[15:10:56] <cradek> something so old might be very worn
[15:11:01] <Dave911> The lathes he is looking at are in NJ but there is a lot of stuff near Detroit that they are being sold really cheap
[15:11:08] <skunkworks_> Dave911: where are you located?
[15:11:19] <Dave911> Near Fort Wayne, IN
[15:11:32] <skunkworks_> Wi here.
[15:12:23] <piasdom> http://www.engraving-machines-plus.com/U-Marq-Carbide-Cutter_p_44.html
[15:12:36] <Dave911> tolerance - I'm not positive but I think in the .010 range is ok for the contouring portions. They are using a hydraulic tracer on a large manual lathe right now.
[15:13:46] <Dave911> >>something so old might be very worn
[15:13:48] <Dave911> Besides the drive condition - the physical wear is my next biggest concern. It would not be hard to spend $15 and buy a worn out machine.
[15:14:15] <Dave911> >> Wi here.
[15:14:17] <Dave911> ???
[15:15:15] <skunkworks_> WI near lacrosse
[15:16:43] <Dave911> Geez - that is pretty close consider the size of the WEB ;-)
[15:17:25] <skunkworks_> stones throw? ;)
[15:17:45] <piasdom> skunkworks_; the tool i use has about a 20 degrees angle /w a .01" flat..would that work ?
[15:18:15] <skunkworks_> carbide?
[15:18:21] <Dave911> Hey if Palin can see Russia from Alaska _ I think a stones throw is about right! ;-) (Sorry to mention Palin ;-) )
[15:18:22] <piasdom> yes
[15:18:28] <skunkworks_> give it a try.
[15:18:31] <piasdom> k
[15:19:52] <Dave911> As usual you guys have been AWESOME - I really appreciate the help and sure hope I can help you guys in the future also! Thanks
[15:19:54] <Dave911> I'm off to do some testing and find my added LPT port! :-)
[16:47:30] <motioncontrol> good evening.A question about the system with gantry axis.Is possible with emc control 2 axis sincronized?
[16:55:50] <Jymm> yes, but *I* dont know how.
[16:57:52] <motioncontrol> Jymm, ok thanks.i have on a maschine 2 axis vertical , meccanical connection with the table on 2 axis, and i want move with master slave system
[17:01:06] <Valen> cradek thats some mighty fine resolvin you got on that lathe
[17:29:07] <ZeroFlex> loa
[17:41:54] <dave_1> using TkEmc and emc 2.3.0 I tried the S for resume and didn't get a response; is this broken or did I do something wrong?
[17:43:33] <dave_1> resume with the mouse works just fine. :-)
[18:09:47] <dave_1> P & S work just fine under 2.2.5 on my other machine
[18:26:35] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89856
[18:29:05] <cradek> "Up to now, I have been searching mainly in SE Michigan. This area has a few things going for it. It is easy to get to for most of the previous attendees"
[18:29:15] <cradek> I wonder why he thinks this is true
[18:29:46] <cradek> they are days away from each other - the old location was much nearer the middle of the country.
[18:29:47] <mozmck> heh, it's a long ways from texas...
[18:30:20] <cradek> it's a long way from almost everywhere except ... uh, near there
[18:30:31] <cradek> yes I do realize that is a content-free statement
[18:31:09] <cradek> in IL we had people drive from CA and VT with about equal suffering :-)
[18:33:52] <mozmck> I like kansas :-)
[18:36:14] <cradek> yep that was nice for us
[18:37:14] <cradek> but heck, I might go to MI
[18:37:57] <BJT-Work_> BJT-Work_ is now known as BJT-Work
[18:41:32] <skunkworks_> I have a big lake between.. ;)
[18:43:58] <archivist_attic> puddle. the atlantic is bigger!
[18:45:11] <cradek> hm, 'which state' is kind of irrelevant for you attending isn't it?
[18:46:06] <archivist_attic> yup which country bugs me :)
[18:57:06] <archivist_attic> I wonder if we should do something during/alongside one of the UK model engineering shows
[18:59:48] <cradek> there are a lot of you uk emc users. you should some day get your shit together and meet up.
[19:00:18] <cradek> I've heard talk of it for years now...
[19:00:36] <archivist_attic> I have met one, spoken to a secone emailed a third....
[19:01:14] <cradek> can't you all just get on a bus and meet in an hour or two? your country is so very small... :-)
[19:01:23] <archivist_attic> actually had a mach user to work and invited Ian W. Wright in an email tonight
[19:01:33] <archivist_attic> hehe
[19:01:36] <cradek> but seriously - I bet you'd get a bunch of other EUers too, if you arranged something
[19:02:19] <archivist_attic> I went to Inverness the other week to fetch the lathe... noticed an emcer up there when I got back!
[19:02:31] <cradek> darn
[19:02:36] <archivist_attic> yup
[19:03:24] <archivist_attic> must have snatched my toy from under his nose :)
[19:29:14] <BJT-Work> http://cgi.ebay.com/1988-HARDINGE-CHNC-1-CNC-LATHE-w-SEIMENS-10T_W0QQitemZ200380373053QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?hash=item2ea799d83d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
[19:30:16] <BJT-Work> does this look like a good candidate for an EMC conversion?
[19:32:09] <cradek> that's my lathe with 16C instead of 5C and in a fancier box
[19:32:11] <archivist_attic> er yes
[19:32:57] <cradek> has collet closer
[19:33:40] <cradek> you can take those little covers off and there are allens in the ends of the ballscrews. take an indicator and make sure they feel right and do not have backlash.
[19:33:43] <BJT-Work> thanks
[19:34:01] <BJT-Work> anyone know those people?
[19:34:23] <cradek> nope
[19:34:47] <archivist_attic> feedback looks ok
[19:35:07] <BJT-Work> yea 100%
[19:35:09] <cradek> I do not see anything obvious that looks wrong
[19:35:16] <BJT-Work> thanks for looking
[19:35:18] <cradek> does not look freshly painted. looks like it's not heavily used.
[19:35:34] <cradek> you must use cutting oil, not water based coolant with these lathes
[19:35:38] <archivist_attic> been used paints ok for 20 years work
[19:35:54] <BJT-Work> special type of cutting oil?
[19:36:29] <cradek> I use soy based stuff - it smells like french fries
[19:36:32] <Skullworks> Will the profile made by Stepconfig work directly with the other gui fronts?
[19:36:38] <cradek> it goes everywhere so it may as well smell nice :-)
[19:36:48] <cradek> Skullworks: I think so
[19:37:21] <cradek> the X "accordion" cover looks shot
[19:37:28] <BJT-Work> dang it is all most to New York City
[19:38:08] <cradek> be aware you can only do about 6" diameter on this, and that's pushing it - it's meant for small work
[19:38:37] <cradek> well obviously I guess, since it's a collet machine
[19:39:21] <BJT-Work> I'm usually doing things that fit in a 5c collet :)
[19:39:44] <cradek> also beware - might have resolvers
[19:40:08] <cradek> but that's a minor problem now that pico makes those cool little convertors
[19:40:09] <BJT-Work> did yours have resolvers?
[19:40:14] <cradek> yes still has
[19:40:47] <cradek> not much room for encoders unless you also take out the tachs and put them directly on the screws
[19:40:55] <cradek> but then you can't use the original amps
[19:43:54] <cradek> wonder what "needs a board" means
[19:44:19] <BJT-Work> is the collet closer built into the spindle?
[19:44:37] <cradek> it's the thing on the back of the head - it pulls on a long tube
[19:44:43] <cradek> it does come out/off
[19:44:59] <cradek> it's run by air
[19:45:09] <BJT-Work> ok
[19:46:02] <BJT-Work> what kind of footprint do think it has
[19:46:49] <cradek> 4x7'
[19:47:18] <cradek> you want room to the left for the bar to stick out (looks like that panel comes off - nice)
[19:47:30] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work gets a tape measure out to see if I have room here :)
[19:47:41] <cradek> heh, don't trust me if it's that close
[19:48:16] <cradek> it is tall too - 5.5-6' with the door closed I bet - maybe 7.5+ with it open
[19:49:52] <BJT-Work> we have 10' ceilings in here
[19:50:17] <BJT-Work> it's just a little deeper than my Samson manual lathe
[19:51:00] <BJT-Work> I see that in the pictures now the door opens up like a clam shell
[19:51:39] <BJT-Work> I see the track the door runs in now
[19:55:21] <BJT-Work> hmm 16c goes up to 1 5/8 diameter
[19:55:48] <cradek> yeah that sounds pretty darn big to me
[19:56:11] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtas5hNyrfI
[19:56:15] <BJT-Work> Does a chuck mount with a D1-6 type of mounting
[19:56:37] <cradek> I don't know about the 16C one. mine (5c) is just threaded.
[19:57:16] <BJT-Work> its hard to tell from the pictures... I guess a call is in order
[20:02:05] <BJT-Work> he said it was threaded
[20:02:36] <BJT-Work> as far as he knows the controller is the only thing that does not work and it has not been repainted
[20:09:43] <BJT-Work> so for $5500 delivered to my door does that seem like a fair price?
[20:10:32] <skunkworks_> funny as far as MI goes... When I was into the stealth/3000gt scene - they always wanted to hold it in MI. Because it was the center of the US... ??
[20:18:03] <cradek> how many miles for that $1500? seems like plenty of $
[20:19:30] <cradek> also, frankly $4k seems like the high end for a non-working machine
[20:21:42] <BJT-Work> I was just guessing at the freight
[20:30:32] <cradek> would you be able to go check it out?
[20:31:51] <cradek> I like the panel with the jogwheel and the little shelf - I bet the shelf drains back into the cutting oil sump - very handy
[20:31:53] <BJT-Work> that would be an option
[20:33:51] <BJT-Work> shipping is $1000
[20:33:58] <BJT-Work> so a total of %k
[20:34:01] <BJT-Work> 5k
[20:34:26] <cradek> 1.5k? to retrofit
[20:35:06] <cradek> 2k?
[20:36:16] <BJT-Work> That part I have not done much research on :/
[20:36:34] <cradek> really depends on how much is already there for you to use
[20:36:48] <cradek> if you need a 7.5hp vfd, $1k
[20:37:14] <BJT-Work> could you run that off of a rotary phase converter?
[20:37:26] <cradek> sure if it's big enough
[20:37:29] <BJT-Work> we have a 15hp rotary phase converter in the shop
[20:37:52] <cradek> on how big a breaker?
[20:38:54] <BJT-Work> 50 amp
[20:39:02] <cradek> this says 45 FLA = amps?
[20:39:04] <cradek> yeah you'd be fine
[20:39:23] <BJT-Work> we run my 7.5 hp lathe and the 2.5 hp manual mill at the same time
[20:40:56] <cradek> wonder if this has the 1/2 or 3/8 turret
[20:41:42] <cradek> I bet 1/2, that blue tool looks too big for 3/8
[20:44:40] <cradek> the top way surface has been polished/sanded/cleaned by hand - it may have been rusty looking or something
[20:45:21] <cradek> you can see right against the cross-slide what it used to look like
[20:45:46] <cradek> they did not move it back and forth to polish underneath
[20:47:10] <cradek> that's a little worrying - I bet it's not remotely flat now
[20:48:14] <BJT-Work> ouch that is scary
[20:48:52] <cradek> yeah I'd sure rather see it in its original condition, even if it's ugly
[20:49:08] <BJT-Work> me too
[20:51:22] <archivist> the polishing wasnt done by a clockmaker/engineer, would have kept the grain in line
[20:51:46] <cradek> heh, yep
[20:51:56] <cradek> or been smarter than to do it :-)
[20:53:17] <archivist> but, grain from a polish does show and its damned hard to take a significant amount of metal off
[20:53:56] <archivist> could well give a worse impression than its real condition
[20:54:34] <cradek> unless some power tool was used I bet it's just fine for normal use still
[20:55:05] <cradek> but I'd still go check it out - at least move the cross slide around and see if it gets loose anywhere
[20:55:31] <cradek> these don't have one shot oil - you have to oil both ballscrews - if it's not done, they might need work like mine did
[20:55:52] <cradek> so I'd want to know that too - you will be able to tell if you just take your set of allen wrenches along
[20:56:08] <archivist> I had to get this little starturn blind, by the looks after I got the rust off, it did almost no work
[20:56:21] <cradek> cool
[20:56:48] <archivist> luckily the seller left the coating of rust on
[20:56:57] <cradek> heh
[20:57:32] <archivist> gave me a far better impression of when it was last used
[20:58:53] <archivist> tail stock oil had dried and it had to be hit to get it moving, no sign of use only of staining from the time it was still
[21:02:47] <Guest108> Hey all
[21:03:18] <cradek> hi guest108
[21:03:28] <Guest108> anybody online familiar with how EMC handles tool offsets?
[21:03:38] <cradek> surely
[21:03:46] <Guest108> N50G00G43Z0.7874H2
[21:04:15] <Guest108> is tool 2 supposed to have the variable updated in the tool file after this command
[21:04:17] <cradek> I answered this yesterday but you were not patient enough to see my answer! this will load the length of tool 2 from the tool table. (H2)
[21:04:42] <cradek> no, g43 does not change the tool table. it uses the number that's in the tool table as the new tool length offset.
[21:05:08] <cradek> is this a mill or lathe?
[21:05:15] <Guest108> mill
[21:05:22] <Guest108> so what does that line do?
[21:05:46] <cradek> it offsets Z by the length of tool 2 in the tool table, then moves Z to the new 0.7874
[21:06:36] <Guest108> so the G00 is associated with the .7874 and the G43 is associated with the H2?
[21:07:26] <cradek> yes
[21:07:47] <cradek> the order of words in a line of gcode have no affect
[21:08:09] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_overview.html#sec:Order-of-Execution
[21:08:14] <jepler> there are two tiny exceptions to that: N and O must be at the start of their line
[21:08:21] <Guest108> Ok, that makes sense
[21:08:43] <cradek> if you look here, you can see that the G43 [step 14] applies the tool offset before the G0 causes a motion [step 20]
[21:09:26] <Guest108> So no gcode will umpdate the tool table file? It has to be edited?
[21:09:42] <cradek> G10 can update the tool table
[21:10:06] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode.html
[21:10:19] <cradek> this is the best document for quickly finding what G codes are available and what they do
[21:10:30] <Guest108> Thanks
[21:10:36] <cradek> you also have it on your applications / cnc menu
[21:10:40] <Guest108> one other question if I may
[21:10:52] <Guest108> G92.1
[21:11:30] <Guest108> I thought it would set the realtive = to the actual but it doesn't so I'm not sure what it does
[21:11:50] <Guest108> machine realtive to machine actual
[21:12:16] <cradek> you have two different kinds of work offsets, G92 and G5x (set by G10 L2). G92.1 resets only the G92 offset.
[21:12:45] <cradek> G92.1 and then G10 L2 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 will clear both offsets [or, you can clear them using the Machine menu / zero coordinate system]
[21:12:50] <Guest108> how can I cancel machine realtive or make realative = actual
[21:12:54] <cradek> ^
[21:13:13] <Guest108> thanks
[21:13:30] <cradek> I have to run, others can help if you have more questions.
[21:13:44] <BJT-Work> thanks cradek
[21:13:55] <Guest108> yes thanks cradek
[21:15:15] <Guest108> ? clear them using the machine menu/ zero coordinate system. Did he mean touch off all axis independently?
[21:15:58] <archivist> thats one way yes
[21:16:37] <Guest108> is there a one button clear?
[23:53:33] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away