#emc | Logs for 2009-09-13

[01:25:30] <Allen_NZ> Hi Everyone
[01:25:53] <Allen_NZ> Are there any devleopers here ? I have a question :)
[01:27:30] <mozmck> There should be some - ask away!
[01:28:55] <Allen_NZ> I am playing with backlash code on a mill with scales and joint->ferror includes joint->backlash_filt .... Can anyone tell me why this is done ?
[01:30:00] <Allen_NZ> Would it not be better for joint->ferror = joint->motor_pos_cmd - joint->motor_pos_fb
[01:30:37] <Allen_NZ> so that joint->backlash->filt and joint->motor_offset are excluded ......
[01:32:24] <Allen_NZ> code is in emc/motion/control.c
[02:18:29] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[02:25:54] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[02:38:09] <ds3> a bit OT, but does anyone know if it is possible to buy real hinges made of ABS (not a live hinge) for gluing onto a ABS sheet?
[02:59:53] <Jymm> ds3: I've only seen acrylic, not ABS
[03:03:24] <ds3> Jymm: that agrees with my search results :(
[03:03:38] <ds3> I'd hate to machine one in the size I want :/
[03:05:34] <Jymm> ds3: Why ABS and what is this for?
[03:07:08] <ds3> Jymm: I want to make a little lid for a electronics thing... the lid will have machined in features so ABS is best suited. I want to solvent weld the hinge on hence the need to match the plastic
[03:09:01] <Jymm> Well, if you don't want to make a simple block type hinge out of ABS scrap you already have, this is the best I could suggest... http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=125&
[03:09:17] <ds3> block type?
[03:10:01] <ds3> I don't want to make something that looks like a door hinge but in 1/10th scale
[03:10:01] <Jymm> Take two blocks of ABS, give them interlocking fingers, and shove a dowel in em
[03:10:41] <ds3> that sounds tricky to do since the hinge needs to be like 1inch wide and no more then maybe 0.030 thick
[03:11:16] <Jymm> then use the acrylic hinge
[03:11:37] <ds3> any suggestions on how to attach it to a thin peice of abs?
[03:11:45] <Jymm> glue
[03:12:05] <ds3> AFAIK, there is no glue that would glue ABS to Acrylic
[03:12:26] <Jymm> two part epoxy
[03:12:34] <ds3> that stuff works on plastic?
[03:12:41] <Jymm> it works on anything
[03:13:03] <ds3> Hmmm
[03:13:04] <Jymm> not the putty stuff, the stuff that comes in a syrenge
[03:13:09] <toastydeath> we use a two-part epoxy to glue graphite to anodized aluminum
[03:13:15] <toastydeath> it is syringe-based
[03:13:23] <toastydeath> stuff does NOT come apart
[03:14:07] <ds3> I used a version before and they recommend mixing it in a dish like molding on the packaging... the dried stuff flakes off the plastic "mixing depression"
[03:14:43] <Jymm> http://www.homedepot.com/Paint-Adhesives-Tape-Adhesives-Epoxies-Super-Glue/h_d1/N-5yc1vZaqrbZ1xr5/R-100670610/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
[03:15:12] <ds3> I'll think about that... alternative would be to pop rivet some brass hinges in place
[03:16:23] <ds3> the reason I don't to make it is i don't want to practice deep hole drilling with a 0.010 drill
[06:15:52] <ZeroFLex> .....
[07:58:46] <motioncontrol> good morning.when i open a partprogram in xemc userinterface the font text for partprogram is small.is possible have the upper fonts ?
[10:52:46] <ZeroFLex> n
[12:00:03] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:44:37] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/u_56HDAT.jpg
[14:47:11] <ZeroFLex> what is that ? a testical of an elephant ?
[14:47:12] <ZeroFLex> :)
[14:47:17] <ZeroFLex> gjees that thing is huge
[14:53:39] <skunkworks> heh - mother hubbord squash
[14:53:51] <ZeroFLex> dont know it :)
[14:54:04] <ZeroFLex> looks like a vegetable (dont get much of those)
[14:54:05] <ZeroFLex> :)
[15:04:22] <skunkworks> scary ;)
[15:16:43] <Jymm> skunkworks: your garage door counterweight - for all three doors!
[15:24:09] <skunkworks> That is a great idea!
[15:24:17] <skunkworks> we have enough of them
[15:24:21] <Jymm> lol
[15:24:45] <skunkworks> right now the whole garage is full of rummage sale stuff..
[15:24:53] <skunkworks> the whole thing.
[15:25:06] <Jymm> Could open a daycare center too.... just attach one of those to each kid. If the kid gives you any trouble, attache two of em!
[15:25:15] <skunkworks> (next week is the village wide rummage sale)
[15:25:40] <Jymm> village?!
[15:25:48] <Jymm> wth do you live?!
[15:26:32] <skunkworks> the village of trempealeau..
[15:26:37] <skunkworks> :)
[15:27:36] <Jymm> skunkworks: Hell, the state park is like 4x bigger than your town!!!
[15:27:40] <skunkworks> heh
[15:27:44] <skunkworks> yes - it is.
[15:27:55] <Jymm> even the river is wider than your town is!
[15:28:48] <Jymm> skunkworks: You guys have some serious speed traps or what?!
[15:31:28] <skunkworks> actually - no. suprsignly
[15:31:39] <skunkworks> http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9eXAuMjQ2MDArMm5kK3N0K3RyZW1wZWFsZWF1K3dpJTdlc3N0LjAlN2VwZy4xJmJiPTU3LjQ2ODU4OTE5MjA4OTMlN2UtNjYuMTgxNjQwNjI1JTdlMjcuOTE2NzY2NjQxMjQ5MSU3ZS0xMTYuNTQyOTY4NzU=
[15:32:02] <Jymm> skunkworks: What is that thing between 8th & 10th and King & county Hwy ?
[15:33:16] <skunkworks> I think you are seeing the junk yard :)
[15:33:32] <Jymm> skunkworks: Oh, like a pick-a-part?
[15:33:40] <Jymm> car junk yard
[15:34:01] <skunkworks> yes
[15:34:13] <Jymm> I couldn't tell if it was a trailer park or what - google maps doesn't zoom in that far.
[15:34:17] <ZeroFLex> [17:25:05] <Jymm> Could open a daycare center too.... just attach one of those to each kid. If the kid gives you any trouble, attache two of em! <<--- lolz
[15:35:48] <ZeroFLex> what switches (types) do u guys use for homing/end switching ?
[15:38:29] <skunkworks> Jymm: our house is to the left of the arrow - (you can see the garage pad) (smaller house)
[15:39:03] <Jymm> skunkworks: Sorry, I don't do M$ =)
[15:40:09] <Jymm> skunkworks: It's all good... I just haven't heard the term 'village' used in the continental US is all.
[15:40:24] <skunkworks> heh
[15:41:08] <Jymm> skunkworks: Funny thing is that I was working on a GeoDB when you said that too =)
[15:57:37] <ZeroFLex> the village people came out of the US i thought, didnt they . :)
[16:10:24] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[19:20:56] <fenn> mmmm.. yummy http://www.tflex.com/design/examples/exsa3_big.jpg
[19:21:34] <fenn> think that's a diamond turning machine?
[19:49:20] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[20:19:56] <skunkworks> for optics?
[20:32:06] <fenn> it has the B axis attachment to keep the same rake/relief angles relative to the surface normal, which is used for machining optics but i don't know what else
[20:52:01] <ZeroFLex> naais cewl machine, what wil somithing like that cost >?
[21:13:42] <toastydeath> fenn: that looks like a turn/mill machine
[21:14:32] <toastydeath> not a dtm
[21:15:04] <toastydeath> it's also got a Y axis
[21:15:14] <toastydeath> pesudo-y axis, anyway
[21:16:53] <toastydeath> and to zeroflex, a machine like that costs .75-1mil usd
[21:17:39] <ZeroFLex> hmmzz i think i gonna buy one next year, it wil ruin my savings account but hell ... :D
[21:17:54] <fenn> toastydeath: what's the triangle shaped thingy in the secondary spindle/rotary axis
[21:18:08] <toastydeath> a regular lathe tool
[21:18:24] <toastydeath> they can do tool normal machining, no sweat, but they're not diamond turning machines
[21:19:20] <ZeroFLex> i've seen some milling machines with al lathe axis onderneath it
[21:19:30] <ZeroFLex> not just a turntable but a real lathe
[21:19:47] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZcFMjLmjZc
[21:19:52] <toastydeath> that is one of those machines running
[21:20:30] <ZeroFLex> supose, i would build something like it, a normal type of spindel wouldnt be suited for lathe cutting i think or ... ?
[21:20:39] <toastydeath> ?
[21:21:37] <toastydeath> any spindle that is rigid enough to turn will be rigid enough for milling
[21:21:43] <toastydeath> the issue is the dual drive
[21:21:59] <toastydeath> oh, you mean the B axis
[21:22:02] <ZeroFLex> put a small lathe on my milling table (easy sad but that aside) and put a lathe (beitel is dutch) tool pice in correct angle in my spindel, would that be possible ?
[21:22:19] <toastydeath> that is possible, i think the Tormach does exactly that?
[21:22:20] <fenn> so the little motor in front (with the orange bracket) is for positioning, and the big rear motor is for turning?
[21:22:49] <toastydeath> fenn: not sure what you're referring to - the vid or the solid model
[21:22:58] <fenn> the model
[21:23:13] <toastydeath> correct
[21:23:35] <fenn> well it's still cool :P
[21:23:35] <ZeroFLex> holey shitti, what a naais machine, hum much axis 1 2 3 4 5 i see or am i wrong
[21:23:36] <toastydeath> the main spindle drive is probably 50+ hp, the servo only needs to be ~5-10 in the worst case
[21:23:56] <toastydeath> zeroflex: you aren't seeing all the axes in that video, it's not uncommon for a turn/mill to have upwards of 15 axes
[21:24:23] <ZeroFLex> om my god, how wil you write a program for it
[21:24:27] <toastydeath> you don't
[21:24:31] <fenn> why is the Y axis at an angle instead of vertical?
[21:24:40] <toastydeath> cam sofware is the only way to program those machines
[21:24:53] <toastydeath> and it's specialized turn/mill cam software, not just any old mastercam thing
[21:25:12] <toastydeath> because the Y axis doesn't have to be that big, they care more about rigidity
[21:25:36] <toastydeath> so they make a "virtual" y axis by sliding the top slide down, and the bottom slide out
[21:25:43] <ZeroFLex> hmm
[21:25:55] <toastydeath> the machines that have a "true" y axis tend to not be as rigid
[21:25:59] <fenn> why not?
[21:26:12] <ZeroFLex> i will be (honestly) proud of my own 2 hands, if i can retrofit my own mill .....
[21:26:30] <ZeroFLex> 15 axis.... gjees sick :)
[21:26:38] <toastydeath> because then you have to move the A/B head perpindicular to the 60/80 degree bed
[21:27:15] <toastydeath> imagine that lower slide wasn't there, and the back of that a/b head was on a Y axis
[21:27:25] <toastydeath> that's a lot of metal hanging out if you're going to be doing 50 hp cutting
[21:27:39] <fenn> ah so it's the overhang distance
[21:27:43] <toastydeath> yeah
[21:28:06] <toastydeath> for straight milling it would be fine, though
[21:28:32] <toastydeath> those machines do not have very large motors on the B axis, so they're somewhat milling limited
[21:31:36] <ZeroFLex> 50 horsepowers on an axis ?
[21:31:53] <toastydeath> the turning spindle is 50 horsepower or thereabouts on those machines.
[21:32:15] <ZeroFLex> gjees
[21:32:16] <toastydeath> look on the solid model, at the headstock... the big damn thing sticking off the back end is the turning spindle
[21:32:32] <toastydeath> towards the back
[21:32:38] <ZeroFLex> thats something else then my little maho
[21:33:32] <toastydeath> lol
[21:33:51] <toastydeath> for the better part of a million dollars it better be
[21:34:57] <ZeroFLex> whehe
[21:39:57] <ZeroFLex> what type of servo's do u think i wil need on a little maho milling machine ?
[21:40:12] <ZeroFLex> i dont know what range to search for (nm)
[21:40:25] <toastydeath> i have no idea
[21:40:43] <ZeroFLex> 5
[21:40:46] <toastydeath> i don't have any experience building cnc gear
[21:40:46] <ZeroFLex> 20
[21:42:14] <ZeroFLex> hmmm
[21:42:23] <ZeroFLex> the same over here
[21:42:30] <ZeroFLex> think i wil buy some stronger ones
[21:42:38] <ZeroFLex> 15 to 20nm's
[21:49:36] <ZeroFLex> do u work with those machines toastydeath ?
[21:55:41] <toastydeath> not turn/mill, but mills and lathes
[21:55:44] <toastydeath> yes
[21:55:55] <ZeroFLex> hmmzz
[21:56:01] <toastydeath> dmess, when he shows up, has a few turn/mill machines
[21:56:04] <toastydeath> i forget what make
[21:56:10] <ZeroFLex> never workt on a cnc of nc machine just, handwheels
[21:56:23] <toastydeath> it's all very similar.
[21:57:13] <ZeroFLex> yha... not for me :)
[21:57:23] <ZeroFLex> must build a machine first (retrofit it)
[22:02:25] <toastydeath> yeah, i prefer to just use the things
[22:02:46] <toastydeath> I don't think I'll ever build one, just buy used
[22:03:01] <toastydeath> 5-10k for decent older machine
[22:03:29] <ZeroFLex> hmmm
[22:04:03] <ZeroFLex> i retrofit one, for me a bit cheaper and cute building/learning curv
[22:04:04] <ZeroFLex> e
[22:04:22] <ZeroFLex> but i'm off to sleep
[22:04:28] <toastydeath> bai
[22:04:32] <ZeroFLex> its 00.04 over here in holland
[22:04:35] <ZeroFLex> laterz