#emc | Logs for 2009-09-10

[01:08:39] <john_f_> Is there a way for hal to read a keyboard function key?
[01:11:01] <fenn> you can use a keyboard with hal_input
[01:11:37] <fenn> i could use a mouse on screen and to control hal at the same time at least..
[01:33:20] <john_f_> OK the man page for hal_input seems kind of cryptic to me. If I want ro read the F1 key for example would I do this:
[01:33:23] <john_f_> loaduser hal_input -K keyboard
[01:34:10] <john_f_> The F1 key is referenced by?? input.?.key-???
[01:37:26] <fenn> yeah. best to just run halcmd -fk and poke around
[01:37:56] <fenn> do watch -n 0.1 'halcmd show' in a terminal, then press f1 and see whch one changes
[01:39:16] <john_f_> OK I will try later thanks
[02:20:59] <dgarr> i had never tried loadusr hal_input -K keyboard so i tried it on my t23 laptop
[02:21:09] <dgarr> what is this pin" 14822 bit OUT FALSE input.0.key-zenkakuhankaku
[02:21:28] <jepler> I dunno, but your keyboard reports via the linux input layer that it has one of them
[02:21:37] <dgarr> strange
[02:22:21] <jepler> mb_convert_kana — Convert "kana" one from another ("zen-kaku", "han-kaku" and more)
[02:22:35] <jepler> it seems to have something to do with input of asian language text
[02:23:15] <dgarr> i wonder what key it is on the keyboard but i'm not curious enough to test for it
[02:23:40] <jepler> probably there isn't really one
[02:24:17] <jepler> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/2218
[02:24:24] <jepler> "Zenkaku/Hankaku is a key which Japanese keyboard has"
[02:25:46] <jepler> it seems like many keyboards report more keys than they have
[02:25:59] <jepler> for ps2 keyboards this is probably beacuse there's no way in the ps2 protocol to query what keys exist
[02:26:10] <jepler> for usb keyboards, it must be pure laziness
[02:34:14] <dgarr> interesting -- if i ever need to convert_kana i'll know where to look on this old laptop
[02:38:13] <jepler> 'night folks
[07:43:47] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[08:57:57] <archivist> * archivist tries to find a breakout board on the UK to save making one
[09:09:20] <pjm> archivist parport breakout board?
[09:09:37] <archivist> yup
[09:09:54] <archivist> simplest to get the starturn going
[09:10:15] <pjm> ah well this weekend i should be fitting my MESA I/O so will have 2 spare parport cards
[09:10:40] <archivist> basicly worked out whats in the starturn I can re use
[09:20:17] <archivist> I wish there was a UK supplier with something like http://www.embeddedtronics.com/opto.html
[09:20:36] <archivist> I could have it done today!
[09:28:07] <pjm> http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/pcpps.html any good?
[09:38:15] <archivist> hmm http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/opto_board.html
[09:42:54] <archivist> hmm and he is 30 miles from me !!
[09:57:49] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:27:18] <BJT_Shop> BJT_Shop is now known as jthornton
[14:05:42] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/10/google_big_box/ -< lol
[14:12:33] <archivist> I had noticed the font change!
[14:19:57] <jepler> the web is broken. each person should be able to adjust the web browser to show a font that's comfortable for reading.
[14:20:28] <jepler> but the graphic designers have convinced everyone that hiring their services is more important than that
[14:24:52] <alex_joni> well.. they patented the search page layout
[14:24:59] <alex_joni> at least the 2004 version
[15:22:11] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[15:31:12] <piasdom> in axis...the dotted line around my mill movement...is that the machine limits ?
[15:32:12] <micges_work> yes these are limit defined in ini file
[15:32:39] <MarkPictor> hey guys
[15:33:02] <micges_work> hi
[15:33:26] <piasdom> micges: thanks...can i set it to my machine /
[15:33:31] <piasdom> ?
[15:33:40] <MarkPictor> I'm looking for someone to mill (mechanically etch) 2-3 pcb's for me
[15:34:21] <micges_work> piasdom:
[15:34:31] <micges_work> piasdom: I don't understand
[15:34:56] <piasdom> micges: wondering if i can change the distance
[15:35:55] <micges_work> you should set distance according to your machine's moveable area
[15:36:29] <piasdom> ok....been doing that....just wanted to see it in axis
[15:36:37] <piasdom> thanks micges
[15:37:14] <micges_work> np
[15:44:04] <skunkworks> MarkPictor: ! - archivist is thinking about trying the amps also. maybe
[15:46:56] <piasdom> <USA...MarkPictor; how big are you talking about ?
[15:47:30] <MarkPictor> they are skunkworks' servo pcbs, slightly modified. ~4x3
[15:47:50] <skunkworks> MarkPictor: what did you end up changing around?
[15:48:22] <MarkPictor> just that one diode, and a different terminal block
[15:48:32] <MarkPictor> looks like the dimensions are 4.125 x 3.345
[15:49:01] <MarkPictor> errr, two instances of one type of diode
[15:49:14] <MarkPictor> will put pic up on imagebin
[15:49:27] <skunkworks> ah - the bootstrap diodes? did you find higher voltage ones that are fast enough?
[15:49:40] <skunkworks> archivist was wondering about that also.
[15:50:23] <MarkPictor> http://imagebin.org/63331
[15:51:11] <MarkPictor> digikey part number 497-4414-1-ND
[15:51:46] <piasdom> MarkPictor; what's the smallest landing(path)?
[15:52:52] <MarkPictor> uhhh. not sure. skunkworks?
[15:53:21] <skunkworks> hmm - I don't remember - probably .032"
[15:53:47] <skunkworks> * skunkworks likes fat traces
[15:54:14] <piasdom> i could probable do it...i have 4 x 8 sherline and a 16 x 24 engraver
[15:54:15] <skunkworks> MarkPictor: nice find!
[15:54:28] <MarkPictor> by the way skunkworks, I just used the defaults for erc/drc and autoroute - I assumed that would work
[15:55:41] <MarkPictor> piasdom: cool. I guess you're in the US? (I'm in Indiana)
[15:56:08] <piasdom> louisiana
[15:56:54] <piasdom> MarkPictor; how soon would ya'll need 'em?
[15:57:28] <skunkworks> MarkPictor: it looks like the exact settings I had. (I can tell by the pad sizes)
[15:57:44] <MarkPictor> *shrug* no big hurry
[15:57:55] <MarkPictor> skunkworks: ok, good.
[15:58:32] <skunkworks> MarkPictor: what was this for?
[15:58:36] <skunkworks> lathe of some sort?
[15:58:51] <MarkPictor> Think I'll convert my mill first
[15:58:58] <piasdom> MarkPictor; i don't have ANY boards
[15:59:02] <MarkPictor> It's one of those round column things
[15:59:42] <piasdom> maybe i misunderstood what you were asking
[16:00:17] <MarkPictor> piasdom: ok, skunkworks said he used 2oz. Should work for me, my motors are lower current
[16:00:27] <MarkPictor> piasdom: misunderstood ???
[16:00:39] <archivist> * archivist announces life in another cnc retrofit, just air cut a pawn!
[16:00:51] <piasdom> MarkPictor; that i would have boards to do the project
[16:02:12] <MarkPictor> piasdom: well, I'll pay for the material and your time
[16:02:41] <piasdom> MarkPictor; it won't take long...my times free
[16:03:22] <piasdom> MarkPictor; wher to get the boards...i have no idea....i'm just a machinist..:)
[16:03:31] <piasdom> bbiab
[16:03:57] <MarkPictor> piasdom: ahhh, I see.
[16:12:57] <MarkPictor> piasdom: I'll be back in 20-30 minutes
[16:13:21] <piasdom> b
[16:13:23] <piasdom> k
[16:22:59] <MarkPictor> MarkPictor is now known as MarkPictor-away
[16:37:42] <MarkPictor-away> MarkPictor-away is now known as MarkPictor
[16:37:59] <MarkPictor> ok, I'm back.
[16:38:19] <MarkPictor> pcb material is more $$$ than I remembered
[16:41:30] <MarkPictor> piasdom: send me an email, when I figure out what I'll do about getting pcb material to you I will email you.
[16:41:37] <MarkPictor> mpictor
[16:41:40] <MarkPictor> at
[16:41:44] <MarkPictor> gmail.com
[16:41:44] <piasdom> MarkPictor; k
[16:42:01] <piasdom> k
[16:42:10] <MarkPictor> thanks
[16:43:03] <piasdom> sent
[16:43:46] <skunkworks> archivist: did you get the scr amps working?
[16:45:13] <archivist> skunkworks, yup its only for the spindle and will need to hack/replace to get pc control
[16:45:33] <piasdom> MarkPictor; bounced
[16:48:48] <skunkworks> archivist: any pictures?
[16:51:56] <jepler> these are the copper clad boards I use when doing mechanical etching: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvJBlHRSOGUxHZ3YZdY7hnoRxpYvJCgA%252bA%3d
[16:52:24] <piasdom> MarkPictor; mx.google.com rejected my message.don't know why :)
[16:52:47] <jepler> that's single sided, though
[16:54:36] <piasdom> jepler; thanks
[16:54:53] <piasdom> MarkPictor; would these work ?
[16:55:22] <piasdom> bb in about 30
[16:56:05] <jepler> skunkworks's board design is double sided
[16:56:12] <jepler> I was about to find the link to double-sided boards but I got distracted..
[16:57:13] <jepler> click the pdf "page 2165" link or search for product 590-550 (6x6"; $5.70) or 590-587 (4x6; $4.65) for double-sided boards
[16:57:41] <MarkPictor> digikey has some doublesided, and I think I have some somewhere but maybe too small
[16:58:31] <MarkPictor> wow mouser seems much cheaper, digikey 4x6 2oz is $8.29
[16:59:17] <MarkPictor> piasdom: it's mpictor, not markpictor.
[16:59:22] <archivist> skunkworks, not yet bodging a toolpost for a real cut
[17:00:12] <MarkPictor> thanks guys, I gotta go now
[17:00:48] <MarkPictor> btw I'll put the board image on cnczone, and anyone who wants the board file just email me
[17:02:18] <jepler> or if you feel like taking a chance on some no-name store for copper clad boards, these prices are even better: http://shop.willyselectronics.com/browse.cfm/4,2027.html (I have no experience with this business, just found it on google)
[17:03:23] <MarkPictor> thanks Jeff.
[17:03:27] <MarkPictor> MarkPictor is now known as MarkPictor-away
[17:06:01] <bill2or3> I think you want to go with extra-thick cladding for mechanical milled boards.
[17:06:16] <bill2or3> not that I'm any expert, but it's something to double check.
[17:16:04] <skunkworks> I don't see why it matters. (I have milled lots of different boards with no issues)
[17:17:19] <skunkworks> I just try to find thcker cladding for more current handling.
[17:17:20] <bill2or3> I'm not really sure, just something I vaguely recall reading.
[17:17:27] <bill2or3> I'll defer to you. :-)
[17:20:00] <bill2or3> maybe it was just 'thicker pcb', not 'thicker cladding'.
[17:21:19] <piasdom> MarkPictor; sent
[17:58:59] <clip9> http://shop.ebay.com/amt33461/m.html?_ipg=&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301
[17:59:22] <clip9> I've bought laminate from this guy a few times.
[17:59:33] <clip9> Cheapest i've found.
[18:04:48] <clip9> I've never done double sided boards though.
[18:38:03] <piasdom> i don't know what kind of boards MarkPictor and skunkwork need....but i'm off til monday at 3:00(cen)
[18:38:35] <piasdom> * piasdom leaving here at 3
[18:48:52] <frallzor> anyone here using a kress spindle?
[18:51:14] <clip9> yep
[18:51:55] <frallzor> what is the max toolsize for your spindle?
[18:52:03] <clip9> 8mm
[18:52:36] <frallzor> damn then
[18:52:48] <clip9> I think you can get 10mm collets.
[18:52:51] <frallzor> got myself a 10mm collet and a 10mm endmill
[18:52:54] <frallzor> but the shit wont fit
[18:53:00] <clip9> oh
[18:53:14] <frallzor> pretty odd
[18:53:33] <clip9> what collet did you get?
[18:53:35] <frallzor> why sell 10mm collet if a 10mm shaft wont fit =)
[18:53:41] <frallzor> 10mm collet for kress
[18:53:56] <frallzor> the collet seems to fit
[18:55:12] <frallzor> might get an extra nut to drill up and test
[18:57:13] <clip9> hm.. thats pretty strange. It's the hole in the nut thats too small?
[18:57:26] <frallzor> seems like it yes
[18:57:36] <clip9> hm.. I'll check mine quick.
[18:57:37] <frallzor> 8mm
[18:59:04] <frallzor> extra nuts seems to quite a bigger hole
[19:00:39] <clip9> both my nuts have 11mm hole.
[19:01:17] <frallzor> might be cnc-plus.de that sells with 8mm collet and nut then
[19:01:38] <Jymm> clip9: Um, you might want to see a urologist about that.
[19:01:41] <clip9> maybe
[19:01:45] <clip9> Jymm: hehe
[19:17:58] <ZeroFlex_afk> ZeroFlex_afk is now known as ZeroFlex
[19:23:15] <ZeroFlex> haaajj schatteboutjes hoestie ?
[19:34:13] <ZeroFlex> Someone here who is familier with GraniteDevices ?
[21:05:46] <ZeroFlex> sjallala i love you, sjaalala i neeeeeheeedd you
[21:06:37] <archivist> * archivist has a brass pawn !!
[21:06:52] <ZeroFlex> whehe
[21:07:04] <ZeroFlex> naais, i have an soft one :P
[21:13:37] <archivist> skunkworks, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/djcpd/PD/2009/2009_09_10_Starturn/
[21:18:11] <cradek> cute
[21:18:26] <cradek> is that one of those little emco lathes that has tiny ballscrews?
[21:18:46] <archivist> Denford Starturn
[21:19:17] <archivist> it does have ballscrews dunno if they bought in or not
[21:19:25] <cradek> neat
[21:19:29] <skunkworks> nice!
[21:19:40] <archivist> seems to have no wear at all
[21:19:48] <skunkworks> steppers?
[21:19:51] <archivist> yup
[21:20:32] <archivist> not done the spindle feedback yet
[21:20:41] <skunkworks> wait - you got the pawn to run? ;)
[21:20:56] <archivist> yup
[21:21:14] <cradek> it just works...
[21:21:27] <skunkworks> bbl
[21:21:50] <archivist> was biting a bit too much for the small lathe
[21:24:58] <ZeroFlex> whow
[21:25:04] <ZeroFlex> naais thingie
[21:26:21] <ZeroFlex> http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/Unimat3.JPG <<-- i have one like that, bought it for about 25 euro's when i was 12
[21:27:25] <archivist> they go for lots of money on fleabay ZeroFlex you wont loose out
[21:27:28] <archivist> lose
[21:29:02] <ZeroFlex> lose out
[21:29:04] <ZeroFlex> as in sell ?
[21:29:16] <archivist> if you ever wanted too
[21:29:20] <ZeroFlex> ?
[21:29:45] <ZeroFlex> got even an collum for milling with it i believe (all driven by rubber rings)
[21:30:10] <ZeroFlex> an lots of tools
[21:30:28] <leito1489> hello everybody, i need to know if you can tell me please, if it's possible to use a spindle as a normal spindle and also as a rotary axis in the same machine config?? thanks in advance
[21:30:52] <ZeroFlex> hmm selling, i have used it sometimes for doing some parts for modelling planes
[21:31:30] <ZeroFlex> it is now standing for years in the basement
[21:34:21] <Jymm> I probably wouldn't mind having that, especial since I don't have a lathe at all.
[21:34:48] <ZeroFlex> hehe
[21:35:00] <ZeroFlex> i'm looking for a normal sized one
[21:35:13] <ZeroFlex> its just suited for tiny stuf
[21:35:33] <archivist> some work I do is tiny
[21:35:35] <ZeroFlex> but funny to see that peeps are making even those little ones cnc
[21:35:55] <ZeroFlex> what did u make out of brass on the photo's
[21:35:58] <ZeroFlex> a bell or so ?
[21:36:03] <archivist> Emco 5 seems a similar size to mine
[21:36:35] <archivist> the lathe_pawn.ngc that comes with emc
[21:36:47] <ZeroFlex> whehe testing
[21:37:02] <ZeroFlex> what size steppers/servo's did u use ?
[21:37:19] <archivist> although conversion is not complete I can use it!
[21:37:21] <ZeroFlex> and what spindels ?
[21:37:34] <archivist> all original fittings
[21:37:50] <ZeroFlex> ?
[21:38:20] <ZeroFlex> whas it with servo's/steppers ?
[21:39:09] <archivist> it was a cnc from new
[21:39:09] <archivist> only the computer/software needs changing
[21:39:25] <ZeroFlex> owhz
[21:39:32] <ZeroFlex> i have a complete manual one
[21:39:48] <ZeroFlex> just with trapezium spindels and little turners for the hand
[21:41:07] <ZeroFlex> but if i find an suiteable (cheap ass) conversion set with steppers drivers i wil try to make it cnc just for fun and learning curve
[21:42:26] <ZeroFlex> i found out today that there are some naais drivers out there
[21:42:42] <ZeroFlex> vbs-e drivers, for steppers/ac/dc servo's
[21:43:03] <ZeroFlex> think i will be reading in on those tomorrow a bit more.
[21:43:26] <ZeroFlex> only need to find a good breakout/i/o board then
[21:45:44] <ZeroFlex> it seems to me a lot of fun to learn/play arround with this kind of stuff (also pretty expensieve)
[21:49:06] <ZeroFlex> yep, i'm off
[21:49:09] <ZeroFlex> to bed
[21:49:18] <ZeroFlex> iets almost midnight over here
[21:49:23] <ZeroFlex> ZeroFlex is now known as ZeroFlex_afk
[22:33:16] <tom3p> re: "<fenn> red black white = three phase power, blue aqua pink yellow = hall effect sensors?" no, blue aqua pink yellow is a very questionable wardrobe :)
[22:33:38] <fenn> i agree
[22:50:00] <tom3p> the stirling engine site also has handy info on metalworking http://www.nmri.go.jp/eng/khirata/metalwork/index_e.html
[23:12:35] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away