#emc | Logs for 2009-08-30

[01:09:40] <KimK> KimK is now known as KimK_afk
[03:06:50] <john_f_> I mounted my MB in the machine cabinet. Now I need to figure out a nice way to get the power supply to turn on when I turn on the main disconnect switch to the cabinet. Does anyone know if something other than an isolated contact will work? Could I use an optocoupler? Is one end of the swtich pulled up to 3.3V and the other side ground? I don't want to have long wires extending from the MB to a power on switch.
[03:22:02] <Dave911> What you want to do is to jumper the power supply so it goes on as soon as it has power. There is one pin in that big mother board 20+4 connector that is a odd color - green. What you need to do is to tie that wire to one of the black ground wires on the same plug. That will make the power supply come up as soon as it receives power. http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/powersupply.htm
[03:23:34] <L84Supper> do you also want the MB to boot at the same time as the power comes up?
[03:23:49] <john_f_> yes that works with some MBs but I tried it on mine and it doesn't work. The power supply comes on but the MB does not boot correctly
[03:24:16] <L84Supper> BIOS settings will get you most of the way there
[03:24:24] <john_f_> Yes I want it to boot at the same time poer is applied
[03:24:30] <L84Supper> but ACPI is flakey
[03:24:51] <john_f_> didn't see anything in the bios settings
[03:25:02] <L84Supper> so you can jumper the power button with a small capacitor
[03:25:20] <L84Supper> let me check the value, I forget
[03:25:54] <john_f_> Capacitor sounds easy
[03:26:59] <L84Supper> you want to just have a momentary contact on the power button header
[03:27:18] <L84Supper> and the power button is debounced in hardware
[03:28:27] <john_f_> The problem is that I don't want to run long wires from the MB header to a switch 10ft away next to all kinds of other HV wires
[03:31:20] <L84Supper> a few uF is all you need
[03:32:46] <L84Supper> when the AC power comes up the power supply will be up, the chipset needs a logic low for less than 4 seconds to turn on, if it stays low for longer than 4 sec the BIOS/ACPI will power it back down
[03:33:41] <L84Supper> thats a logic low across the POWER SWITCH and GND on the header for the power button and panel LED's, reset etc.
[03:34:32] <L84Supper> if you use a polarized cap. you'll need to be sure to connect it up with the correct polarization
[03:34:44] <john_f__> yes
[03:36:03] <john_f__> maybe I will measure the current through the switch next that should help me sixe the cap
[03:36:20] <L84Supper> if you use too small a cap then the debounce may filter it out as noise
[03:36:32] <L84Supper> RC timing
[03:36:54] <john_f__> I suspect there is a pullup to 3.3 on one side of the header
[03:36:59] <L84Supper> they probably use a ~5K pull up to 3.3V
[03:37:22] <L84Supper> CMOS current draw (nA)
[03:37:44] <john_f__> yep I should measure the ohms from the 3.3V side to 3.3V too
[03:38:42] <L84Supper> POWER BUTTON to 3.3V
[03:39:08] <john_f__> yes that is what i meant
[03:40:03] <L84Supper> or use a mainboard with a BIOS that lets you set "return from power loss - ON"
[03:40:17] <L84Supper> or use Coreboot
[03:40:27] <john_f__> too late for tha now
[03:40:48] <john_f__> I am ready to put the finishing touches on this retrofit
[03:48:33] <john_f__> 50 K ohms to 3.3V maybe 10uF with a diode to 3.3V so that it doesn't discharge through the logic input when power is removed
[03:57:45] <john_f__> L84Supper: 10 uF works. Thanks!
[03:58:21] <Dave911> I doubt that using a cap will help you as it will be attempting to turn on the PC almost immediately as the power comes on also.
[03:58:43] <Dave911> Do you have any other logic devices on the machine - like a PLC?
[03:59:08] <Dave911> You could drive a small relay with a separate device to trigger the PC
[04:00:55] <john_f__> yah I was just thinking about that too. You are right. I can turn it on with the cap but if I turn on the main switch with the cap in place it doesn't work
[04:02:06] <john_f__> I think I am back to the optocouler idea. Then I can make the time constant really long on the isolated side without possibly damaging te MB
[04:04:16] <Dave911> As usual someone else has already solved this problem.. :-)
[04:04:18] <Dave911> http://www.edn.com/article/CA495740.html
[04:06:57] <Dave911> I wonder if someone makes and sells a small board with this or similar circuitry on it?
[04:07:32] <john_f__> Dave911: thanks for finding the article
[04:07:52] <john_f__> I think that will be the best way to do it
[04:07:56] <Dave911> NP
[04:08:32] <Dave911> If EDN published it - it should be a solid solution.
[04:11:59] <john_f__> Time to quit for today....
[09:12:42] <issy> hi all
[09:27:15] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[12:32:07] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[13:01:43] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[14:27:20] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[15:38:26] <ilya_> what is ~/nc_files/torus.png for? Any abilities to machine monochrome *.png files?
[15:52:47] <cradek> image-to-gcode is included in emc2
[15:52:57] <cradek> see sim/axis sample config
[15:53:58] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[16:00:17] <ilya_> thanks
[16:02:34] <ilya_> cradek: And program can ask for python-lxml, could it?
[16:02:42] <Roguish> good morning all.
[16:02:58] <Roguish> got a dumb linux question.
[16:03:15] <Roguish> did the git pull, etc for a new install.
[16:03:41] <Roguish> now when in src, i am doing the ./configure etc.
[16:03:49] <Roguish> get an error
[16:04:19] <Roguish> bash: ./configure: No such file or directory
[16:04:38] <Roguish> what's going wrong???
[16:06:17] <ilya_> Roguish: you probably mistyped ./configure
[16:07:10] <Roguish> no, did it several times.
[16:08:13] <ilya_> Roguish: What if you don't have such file in the source directory? Have you typed it with Tab-autocompletition?
[16:08:37] <Roguish> don
[16:08:55] <Roguish> t even know what tab-autocompletion is.
[16:09:27] <ilya_> Oh, "python-numarray" for image-to-gcode; python-lxml is for Inkscape.
[16:10:05] <ilya_> Roguish: to type ilya_, currently in this channel, type il<Tab>
[16:10:28] <tom3p> type the beginning of the name and hit tab, the system tries to find the remaining part of the name... eg "ls ./conf<tab>"
[16:11:07] <ilya_> Tab complete file, directory, and command names
[16:11:11] <Roguish> oh. ok. no i don't us that.
[16:11:16] <tom3p> if it can find several, you'd need to hit <tab> again and would get a list. if none found, then you see nothing
[16:11:21] <Roguish> guess i can now.
[16:12:04] <ilya_> Roguish: anyway, I have never used git and fetched source files...
[16:13:19] <ilya_> Roguish: it does not probably solve the problem you`ve mentioned
[16:13:20] <Roguish> i'm just following 2.4 of http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[16:14:40] <Roguish> if i do the ./autogen.sh i get the errors:
[16:14:56] <Roguish> noel@atom:~/emc2-dev/src$ ./autogen.sh
[16:14:58] <Roguish> ./autogen.sh: line 6: autoconf: command not found
[16:14:59] <Roguish> ./autogen.sh: line 9: autoheader: command not found
[16:15:38] <eric_unterhausen> you probably need to install automake
[16:16:01] <dgarr> apt-get install autoconf
[16:17:29] <Roguish> dgarr: you're a genuis!!!!
[16:18:09] <ilya_> Roguish: try to not show anyone your username and domain name (noel@atom)
[18:12:27] <frallzor> anyone here using Artcam?
[18:25:09] <clip9> Yeah
[18:46:45] <frallzor> clip9 say you have some thinga that are shaped inwards
[18:46:48] <frallzor> *things
[18:47:03] <frallzor> why the hell does artcam go över the whole surface then and not just the shapes?
[18:56:20] <frallzor> ahh now I see, nm
[18:57:10] <Jymm> ?
[19:02:09] <clip9> That was easy :P
[19:02:10] <Jymm> frallzor: Well, what did you discover?
[19:04:59] <frallzor> choose vectormilling
[19:05:10] <frallzor> so it just sticks to the shapes
[19:05:46] <Jymm> as opposed to raster?
[19:06:14] <frallzor> as oposed to compisite relief
[19:06:18] <frallzor> *composite
[19:07:19] <frallzor> the way it mills can be selected for both, raster did give the best result so ill stick with it
[19:48:15] <jthornton_> jthornton_ is now known as jthornton
[19:57:06] <clip9> http://svarteper.com/images/yay1-copper.jpg
[19:57:15] <clip9> pretty nice milling :D
[19:57:26] <clip9> 20mil
[20:03:11] <skunkworks> nice work!
[20:04:58] <Jymm> That's crap!
[20:05:07] <Jymm> should I look at the pic now?
[20:06:28] <Jymm> skunkworks: Got Garage?
[20:12:52] <skunkworks> last side sided today
[20:13:22] <Jymm> woohoo!
[20:13:26] <Jymm> complete?
[20:13:43] <skunkworks> electrical yet
[20:13:52] <Jymm> ah
[20:14:37] <Jymm> skunkworks: Dont forgot to run low voltage conduit to the house too
[20:14:55] <skunkworks> 4 inch
[20:15:02] <skunkworks> conduit
[20:15:02] <Jymm> dual?
[20:15:08] <Jymm> 2 x 4"
[20:15:53] <skunkworks> 2 inch conduit for feed - 4 inch conduit for other stuff.
[20:16:08] <Jymm> ah
[20:16:33] <Jymm> is 2" big enough for what 100a to the huse?
[20:16:38] <Jymm> house
[20:16:45] <skunkworks> yes
[20:16:55] <Jymm> k
[20:17:43] <Jymm> how many CAT5 you going to pull?
[20:18:06] <alex_joni> CAT6 ;)
[20:18:12] <skunkworks> I am sitting in my garage right now on wireless.
[20:18:13] <alex_joni> for 100GigE
[20:18:17] <archivist> lion7
[20:18:39] <alex_joni> oh, and at least one fiber
[20:18:51] <archivist> cheeter42
[20:19:14] <Jymm> and alex_joni says he'll pay for the fiber switches
[20:19:45] <skunkworks> I have access to some old 100mb->fiber media converts.
[20:19:49] <skunkworks> converters.
[20:20:02] <Jymm> 100mb?! what the fsck!
[20:20:08] <skunkworks> ;)
[20:20:08] <Jymm> 10GigE
[20:20:47] <Jymm> skunkworks: and fsck wifi
[20:21:39] <Jymm> you can't run anything worthwhile on wifi... how you going to feed the 64" big screen in the garage in HD on wifi!
[20:22:46] <Jymm> alex_joni: Though, I just didn't consider fiber.
[20:28:38] <alex_joni> Jymm: a converter is pretty cheap
[20:29:10] <alex_joni> he can always upgrade the converters to GigE and 10GigE
[21:39:44] <skunkworks> I don't know if I need that kind of speed. Cat5e and 1gbs is probably fast enough
[21:40:18] <skunkworks> I normally am just streaming audio from the web :)
[21:44:03] <alex_joni> even wifi is enough for that
[21:44:28] <archivist> too many dropouts on wifi
[21:48:17] <Jymm> skunkworks: I'd pull 4 cables; 2 network (one is a backup), 1 telco, and 1 for automation.
[21:49:01] <Jymm> automtion, security, whatever
[21:49:25] <skunkworks> sounds good. cable is cheap
[21:49:47] <tlab> fo41mm12
[21:50:10] <Jymm> skunkworks: If you ever go VoIP, you're good to go too
[21:51:33] <Jymm> skunkworks: also nice to IPCameras if you're so inclined
[21:51:54] <alex_joni> and a phone extension
[21:52:04] <alex_joni> when he'll be working on the projects in the garage ;)
[21:52:16] <Jymm> alex_joni: that wold be the Telco I mentioned =)
[21:52:29] <Jymm> or VoIP if he goes that route down the road
[21:52:54] <Jymm> oh and the BIG ASS BELL so he can hear thephone ring
[21:52:59] <skunkworks> heh
[21:53:03] <Jymm> could have intercom too
[21:54:11] <skunkworks> that is what instant messaging is for.
[21:54:25] <Jymm> not when you have the tabel saw going
[21:54:50] <archivist> intercom should be broken else her indoors can shout at you all day
[21:55:36] <skunkworks> I might buy another one of the atom board for a media box out in the garage.
[21:56:41] <Jymm> skunkworks: http://hdhomerun.com takes about 3MBps
[21:57:00] <Jymm> can take up to 30Mbps
[21:57:16] <Jymm> dual tuners
[21:57:45] <Jymm> you CAN broadcast, but that can just saturate the wire.
[21:58:37] <Jymm> skunkworks: No, it cna't do encrypted /premium chanels.
[22:25:10] <skunkworks> so - what temperature do you think the rafters get on a hot day? higher than 130deg?
[22:34:48] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is wondering if he could store the rest of his vinyl siding in his trusses
[22:42:31] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[22:44:30] <toastydeath> from some googling
[22:44:39] <toastydeath> depending on the location, 150 deg is not rare
[22:45:44] <toastydeath> also depends on roofing material, color, and design?
[22:50:41] <skunkworks> yah - I figure it just might get too hot.
[23:11:29] <Jymm> too hot for what?
[23:12:23] <Jymm> skunkworks: did you add any attic fans?
[23:12:45] <Jymm> coudl even do solar fans
[23:13:43] <Jymm> skunkworks: or are you thinkng aboute insulating the rafters?
[23:14:39] <Jymm> I'd insulate everything... I learned my lesson 5 ears too late.
[23:14:45] <Jymm> years
[23:15:32] <alex_joni> heh, 5 ears too late :P
[23:15:47] <Jymm> jsut call me picaso
[23:16:08] <alex_joni> if it ain't your ears...
[23:16:21] <Jymm> speaking of which... does SW do virtual?
[23:16:26] <fenn> picaso, i think you mean "van gogh"
[23:16:37] <Jymm> fenn you're right
[23:25:28] <skunkworks> heh
[23:25:48] <skunkworks> I have a ridge and soffet vents.
[23:26:20] <Jymm> fan wouldn't hurt for the summer
[23:26:46] <Jymm> just vent all that heat out the soffet
[23:26:59] <alex_joni> put it into the ground
[23:27:09] <Jymm> the garage in the ground?
[23:27:14] <alex_joni> no.. the heat
[23:27:25] <alex_joni> you can store it for winter
[23:27:33] <Jymm> I dont think he wants to dig a 600 foot hole just yet
[23:27:58] <alex_joni> I think it works with shallower holes too
[23:27:59] <Jymm> But that is getting really popular these days
[23:28:05] <alex_joni> but you need to dig a couple
[23:28:37] <Jymm> Just a single 6-8" hole is all that's needed that I'm aware of
[23:29:17] <fenn> just need a giant super insulating vacuum tube from general products
[23:31:02] <Jymm> fenn: No, we're being serious. They call it "Geo something" I ca't remember, but basically the earth stays a consistant 68F so they take advantange or it by shoving a hose a deep hole kinda like a roof top chiller, but works both for heating and cooling
[23:31:30] <fenn> yeah a "geothermal" heat pump (i hate the name)
[23:31:49] <Jymm> heh, yeah that's it.
[23:32:23] <Jymm> I love the idea. In the summer could use solar to run the pump even
[23:33:46] <Jymm> I'm not a "Go Green" freak, but just makes sense. KISS
[23:33:48] <alex_joni> Jymm: fill a pool up with acid
[23:33:58] <alex_joni> drop some lead in it, make a big battery
[23:34:11] <Jymm> then drop you in?
[23:34:22] <alex_joni> then you can use solar in summer to charge it up, and use it in winter to run the pump ;)
[23:34:28] <Jymm> lol
[23:34:30] <alex_joni> can't do that..
[23:34:53] <Jymm> alex_joni: And you can be my pool boy!
[23:34:58] <Jymm> once.
[23:35:05] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is basic
[23:35:14] <alex_joni> if you drop me in, I'll neutralize the acid ;)
[23:35:57] <Jymm> Nah, you're married, so you have a pot belly now... acid can eat thru the fat easily enough =)
[23:36:10] <Jymm> bbiab
[23:37:45] <fenn> such caustic wit, it burns
[23:40:15] <skunkworks> I so want to build a nice sized stirling engine soon
[23:45:45] <skunkworks> something along the lines of what they use in a wispergen. (4 cylinder)
[23:47:57] <alex_joni> Jymm: used to have a pot belly.. but it's gone :/
[23:50:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[23:50:54] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:56:58] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away