#emc | Logs for 2009-08-26

[08:55:53] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[09:02:40] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[12:06:05] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[12:06:57] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[12:56:41] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:30:12] <BJT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,9/id,745/lang,en/#745
[14:06:14] <motioncontrol> good evening.i have a question about the load the firmware hm2 on mesa card.I load a firmware send me Peter the mesa for spi bus, but have a error :hm2_5i20.0. request firmware name 'hm2/firmware/5i20/SVSP8_&_7I64.BIT' is tool loong(max lengh is 30).what is the problem ?
[14:07:58] <cradek> the name is too long - max length is 30
[14:08:19] <Valen> you have the path as the name by the look of things possibly
[14:09:21] <motioncontrol> cradek, good evening.you thing the lengh name or de dimension the byte code?
[14:10:21] <Valen> 'hm2/firmware/5i20/SVSP8_&_7I64.BIT' is 36 charicters long
[14:10:55] <motioncontrol> ok thanks for info i change the name and prove.
[14:19:19] <jepler_> the 30-character limit comes from the kernel, not from emc
[14:19:51] <SWPadnos> does the EMC2 firmware install put the files in hm2/firmware/<boardname>/xxx.BIT ?
[14:19:52] <jepler_> /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.12-magma/include/linux/firmware.h:#define FIRMWARE_NAME_MAX 30
[14:20:25] <SWPadnos> it seems that "/firmware/" is redundant, since it's all under the /lib/firmware directory
[14:20:28] <jepler_> lib/firmware/hm2/5i20/*
[14:20:37] <jepler_> it appears to use a path like ^^
[14:20:44] <SWPadnos> ok, so the name was actually wrong
[14:21:01] <SWPadnos> it should have been "hm2/5i20/SVSP8_&_7I64.BIT'
[14:21:09] <motioncontrol> jepler_, i can modification de lengh define in linux and reboot ?
[14:21:14] <SWPadnos> no
[14:21:19] <SWPadnos> you would need to recompile the kernel
[14:21:37] <motioncontrol> ok i rename the file
[14:21:58] <SWPadnos> try running with the name I just gave you - no "firmware" in the path
[14:23:31] <motioncontrol> the path is correct lib/firmware/hm2/5i20/, but the name the firmare as long. i thing first the dimension file is long.
[14:24:00] <SWPadnos> you do not need to specify "/lib/firmware/", that should be prepended by the kernel
[14:24:22] <SWPadnos> you should only need to give the hm2-specific part "hm2/5i20/SVSP8_&_7I64.BIT'
[14:25:00] <SWPadnos> (I think that's how it works anyway - taking 14 characters out of a 30-character field seems like a silly thing to do)
[14:27:52] <motioncontrol> excuse for another question.i have send a request on sourceforge for improvement in emc2 tool lengh compensation along y, but i don't have select the people development for start project. is necessary select a people development?
[14:28:18] <jepler_> no, you don't select who works on a project
[14:28:22] <jepler_> a person works on a project if he wishes to
[14:28:31] <jepler_> filing a feature request does little to actually cause the feature to be written
[14:29:12] <motioncontrol> ok thank for info
[16:01:54] <Jymm> jepler_: You know the dev's jsut fight to see who will work on the next summitted request ;)
[16:02:59] <jepler_> Jymm: in the sense of "not me!", maybe
[16:05:35] <Jymm> jepler_: You mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYEXzx-TINc
[16:07:31] <Jymm> jepler_: So, if you and cradek represent the first two kids, who's Mikey?
[16:08:24] <Jymm> jepler_: I'd say alex_joni, he seems like a Mikey =)
[17:00:33] <alex_joni> http://metku.net/index.html?path=mods/mobira-dataman/index_eng
[17:05:06] <motioncontrol> good evening.a question about c axis.on normal maschine the spindle is c axis.the spindle can command in speed velocity(M3 s100) and in position spos=180 with only a encoder.the c axis is interpolated.is possible command a axis angular in velocyty mode ?
[17:05:42] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[17:15:07] <cradek> motioncontrol: it seems to me that you could do this in HAL with some creativity. You would need to disconnect from EMC's idea of the C axis before you ran the spindle in velocity mode. Before reconnecting it, you would need to reorient it where it originally was.
[17:15:38] <cradek> there is no explicit support for this kind of operation in emc.
[17:17:38] <motioncontrol> cradek, what is the pin for connect and reconnect the axis ?
[17:19:50] <cradek> that question worries me
[17:20:02] <motioncontrol> i have oriented with a m custum fuction my spindle , but my spindle not is a axis .i write m119 p180 and the spindle go at 180 grad.but this spindle not is a axis and can't interpolated
[17:20:18] <cradek> you can not do it with one pin. you will need to understand what is happening to accomplish this.
[17:21:38] <motioncontrol> ok thanks for help i study the possiblity now
[17:23:24] <cradek> welcome
[17:41:22] <numen> hello
[18:22:08] <mikegg> bobcad sucks
[18:23:10] <cradek> oh?
[18:23:11] <ilya__> "Bobcad"?
[18:23:22] <ilya__> try "SagCAD"
[18:23:37] <ilya__> it seems it has lathe... I wish I know right now...
[18:29:11] <mikegg> shows tool paths, and then gives you code that does not match
[18:30:20] <mikegg> didn't catch it in EMC2 preview because it matched the path for another op. only Z was different
[18:31:12] <ilya__> What if someone has changed default settings?
[18:31:46] <mikegg> default settings for what?
[18:33:47] <ilya__> default settings for tool diameter compensation, default tool itself...
[18:37:01] <mikegg> not using cutter comp right now...
[18:37:27] <mikegg> bobCAD does have some turning/EDM stuff
[18:37:34] <mikegg> I haven't used them though..
[18:43:45] <ilya__> Have you tried FreeMill for MS Windows? It's the same as 'ZIG ZAG' tooling in HeeksCNC...
[18:56:41] <mikegg> nah, I wanted to try Heeks CNC. was interested in the adaptive roughing
[18:56:50] <mikegg> never got around to installing
[18:57:22] <mikegg> anyone here use it?
[18:58:01] <mikegg> I guess AKA adaptive tool path library
[19:01:24] <ilya__> I'm using HeeksCNC in addition to QCad and LiteCAD
[19:01:48] <ilya__> mikegg: what is adaptive roughing? Does it smooth the edges?
[19:02:47] <mikegg> http://code.google.com/p/libactp/
[19:03:30] <mikegg> looks like some sort of tool path optimization.
[19:03:51] <ilya__> ok, thanks
[19:22:59] <ilya__> mikegg: is "BobCAD" free from charge?
[19:23:27] <mikegg> haha
[19:23:31] <mikegg> no
[19:24:00] <ilya__> mikegg: Can I make any use of it in trial mode? Particularly, Lathe.
[19:24:42] <mikegg> http://www.bobcad.com/
[19:24:44] <mikegg> maybe
[19:25:00] <ilya__> mikegg: ok
[19:28:39] <fenn> mikegg: libactp is hard to understand; i don't think many people have had luck using it
[19:28:57] <fenn> however the basic pocketing and raster code works great
[19:29:09] <fenn> only for 2d though
[19:29:21] <ilya__> fenn: what exactly it optimises?
[19:29:34] <fenn> for high speed machining mostly
[19:29:52] <fenn> it also keeps the tool in contact with the workpiece as much as possible, to reduce temperature changes, supposedly
[19:29:54] <ilya__> fenn: Adaptive roughing for 2D, zig zag tooling is for 2.5D, right?
[19:30:04] <fenn> no adaptive roughing is 3d
[19:30:16] <fenn> zig zag is 2.5d
[19:30:25] <fenn> pocketing/profiling is 2d
[19:30:34] <ilya__> What do you mean meaning high speed machining?
[19:31:00] <ilya__> oh, you told it.
[19:31:18] <fenn> for machines with linear motors, or something like that
[19:31:32] <fenn> the idea is to take off a tiny bit each pass but do a lot of passes quickly
[19:31:41] <ilya__> Not for those with screws?
[19:31:50] <fenn> puts less stress on the metal and uses less power
[19:32:15] <fenn> you can do it with ballscrews but it's more difficult
[19:32:23] <fenn> there's no hard line saying "this is high speed machining"
[19:32:26] <ilya__> ah, ok. It also can be used on those less rigid machines, right?
[19:32:38] <fenn> i guess
[19:33:01] <ilya__> srews are on rigid machines usually, right?
[19:33:08] <anonimasu> no
[19:33:11] <fenn> um. they are all rigid machines
[19:33:14] <anonimasu> hm.. from most stuff I've read the big issue is that less rigid machines flex under accelerations and decelerations
[19:33:17] <ilya__> Because that's the reason to use screws?
[19:33:30] <anonimasu> screws are cheaper then linear motors
[19:33:33] <fenn> way cheaper
[19:33:49] <fenn> if you have to ask, you can't afford it :)
[19:34:02] <ilya__> oh...
[19:34:28] <skunkworks_> we have a large format printing press that I just noticed has linear motors.
[19:34:51] <skunkworks_> looks like a bunch of big harddrive maganets in a row ;)
[19:35:19] <ilya__> Why not hydraulics?
[19:35:43] <ilya__> We were taught to use hydraulic drives for this sort of machines.
[19:35:57] <anonimasu> because they have stiction/friction
[19:36:19] <anonimasu> and if we talk about motors leakage
[19:36:26] <ilya__> depends on the force
[19:36:50] <fenn> why do hydraulics leak?
[19:37:14] <skunkworks_> because
[19:37:15] <fenn> can't they just use a sump and suck up the leaked fluid right where it leaks out?
[19:37:24] <anonimasu> fenn: oh.. im talking about internal leakage
[19:38:14] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/hyservo.JPG
[19:38:34] <skunkworks_> noisy
[19:38:38] <skunkworks_> messy
[19:38:38] <mikegg> i think the other issue is controls
[19:38:55] <mikegg> much easier to implement a very accurate PID/servo setup
[19:39:04] <anonimasu> if you have special cylinders, with special seals
[19:39:09] <cradek> skunkworks_: don't you have that machine working yet?
[19:39:19] <anonimasu> and real servo valves you can do positioning pretty accurately with huydralics
[19:39:22] <skunkworks_> cradek!
[19:39:29] <cradek> jeez get with it
[19:39:43] <skunkworks_> ;)'
[19:40:12] <archivist> cradek, your new toy running yet?
[19:40:20] <cradek> sure, works great
[19:40:23] <skunkworks_> I don't seem to have the abillity to do a conversion in less than a month
[19:40:29] <skunkworks_> like other people we know
[19:40:45] <fenn> anonimasu: couldn't one use a voice coil actuator (with a lot of leverage) in series with the hydraulics to make up for the stiction? just a tiny bit of travel in either direction
[19:40:47] <archivist> not seen a video yet so I dont believe
[19:41:11] <cradek> it's not pretty yet - the paint department has stalled
[19:41:16] <Jymm> archivist: It's been in theaters since last friday
[19:41:21] <archivist> heh!
[19:41:55] <Jymm> archivist: you just too cheap to pay the $14 admission
[19:42:18] <archivist> my job has only days to go
[19:42:25] <Jymm> =(
[19:42:39] <archivist> 4 days
[19:42:41] <cradek> uh-oh
[19:42:51] <Jymm> archivist: have anything else lined up yet?
[19:42:58] <archivist> nope
[19:43:13] <skunkworks_> sounds like a good time for early retirement?
[19:43:16] <Jymm> updated your resume?
[19:43:19] <anonimasu> fenn: and as soon as the stiction goes away you get a jerk
[19:43:46] <archivist> skunkworks, thought about it but not that well funded
[19:44:36] <archivist> do a bit for pound notes and hide from the taxman maybe
[19:44:40] <anonimasu> fenn: if you want to do positioning with huydralics and do it well, the valves end up costing like 1700eur for 2 directions
[19:45:18] <skunkworks_> the valves on the k&t have little buzzers in them to keep them from sticking
[19:45:20] <anonimasu> fenn: though thoose are valves with internal pid loops and position feedback of the slide
[19:45:30] <fenn> crazy
[19:46:12] <archivist> there is a capstan in the basement which has dry bollix
[19:46:18] <anonimasu> for normal stuff they are usually run with chopped pwm at some frequency like 1khz
[19:46:29] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88499
[19:46:35] <fenn> the valve opens and closes at 1kHz?
[19:47:08] <anonimasu> they add ripple to the output to make the valve ~
[19:47:24] <anonimasu> so the slide wont stick
[19:48:00] <skunkworks_> I am pretty sure our valves had linear amplifiers running them. (hence the separate buzzer)
[19:49:50] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/card3.JPG
[19:50:02] <skunkworks_> actually - I don't remember if that was it or not..
[19:50:05] <skunkworks_> ;)
[19:50:12] <anonimasu> :)
[19:53:01] <skunkworks_> cradek: we need to see a video of the machine aligning a part using a probe - then coordinate rotating it - tool change, mill, rigid tap. <- I think that should cover it. ;)
[19:53:38] <archivist> paint not required :)
[19:54:31] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[19:57:52] <pjm1> skunkworks = samco on cnczone?
[19:58:12] <skunkworks_> pjm1: yes. Remember when I said I reference your build a lot? ;)
[19:58:19] <pjm1> ah yes ;-)
[19:58:25] <pjm1> thanks, i saw the big up !!
[19:58:40] <pjm1> my mesa cards are about 9 days away currently
[19:58:47] <skunkworks_> Sweet!
[19:59:05] <pjm1> then the machine will get a nice overhaul, and finally it'll do proper spindle speed measurement when running flat out
[19:59:12] <archivist> walking across the pond?
[19:59:15] <pjm1> oh and with that will come closed loop spindle speed
[19:59:23] <skunkworks_> nice
[19:59:24] <pjm1> archivist its coming via my proxy in atlanta
[19:59:30] <archivist> ah
[20:00:06] <pjm1> any the guy will open the box etc and check the cards, thus making them second hand
[20:02:19] <pjm1> anyway, roll on Mesa! I cannot wait to get and fit the cards
[20:25:15] <frallzor> http://www.vimeo.com/6285503 my first run with my diy mill! =D
[20:28:52] <skunkworks_> Nice!
[20:28:57] <skunkworks_> Great work
[20:29:01] <frallzor> works pretty ok
[20:29:20] <frallzor> never imagined I'd be milling plexi at 17k rpm with no melting =)
[20:30:51] <frallzor> kind of a bitch though atm, its placed on the kitchentable and I dont want to make a mess so I have to watch it :P
[20:31:01] <frallzor> and vacuum all the time
[20:32:37] <bill2or3> how are you not getting melt?
[20:33:07] <frallzor> I dont know =)
[20:33:16] <frallzor> might be the feed at 2300mm/min
[20:33:39] <frallzor> and a small cutter
[20:33:43] <frallzor> 3mm only
[21:43:45] <fenn> cradek: another clock for you http://englishrussia.com/?p=2631
[21:45:03] <fenn> i think i'd like to make some of those mouse covers
[21:46:50] <archivist> I had to repair a gear for a black forest clock a few months ago, they are mostly wood but with some brass and steel
[21:50:35] <fenn> how does it tick without a clockspring? :)
[21:51:36] <archivist> the pocket one should have springs
[21:51:57] <archivist> black forest clocks have weights on chains
[21:52:29] <archivist> and fugly clocks they are
[21:53:55] <fenn> is there a spring inside the big donut wheel on the left?
[21:54:29] <archivist> yes thats the balance wheel and its hairspring
[21:56:22] <archivist> upper middle you can see a click and shaft with a flat, thats for winding the power spring which should be behind it somewhere
[22:32:30] <eric_unterhause1> led lightbulbs for 22mm indicators are $22
[22:34:33] <eric_unterhause1> I guess there is a downside to getting free 22mm indicators
[22:37:29] <eric_unterhause1> or 10 for $20 on ebay
[22:43:51] <ds3> any chance the latest EMC parser can handle Excelleron drill files? they look like a subset of G-code but is mainly used by the PCB folks
[22:44:20] <skunkworks> no
[22:46:19] <eric_unterhause1> who was that guy that said since emc said it uses RS374 files it should read gerber files?
[22:47:07] <ds3> gerbers are a whole different beast
[22:47:51] <ds3> is a perl parser to convert it to Gcode the best way to go?
[22:47:55] <eric_unterhause1> except when most people say "gerber" they usually include the excellon files
[22:48:13] <ds3> I see. I like to keep them seperate
[22:49:36] <eric_unterhause1> http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page
[23:13:52] <fenn> heekscad now imports gerbers: http://celer.oni.biz/~celeron55/random/2009-08/heeks/pcb_in_heekscad_profile.png
[23:14:19] <fenn> there's a way to turn off the entry/exit moves
[23:15:36] <fenn> the gerber code is brand new an hasn't been tested much
[23:17:50] <ds3> gerber is geometry, not the holes, right? or are they overloading the terms?
[23:25:54] <fenn> gerber is just traces
[23:26:05] <fenn> and silkscreen etc
[23:26:23] <fenn> gerber files were what drove the plotter
[23:31:20] <ds3> i know but the board houses wants the drill info in a seperate file
[23:33:59] <Jymm> Jymm has changed the topic to: Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.3.3 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org