#emc | Logs for 2009-08-24

[01:38:29] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[04:03:13] <Jymm> Found new way to remove labels! WOOHOO!!!!!!!!
[07:58:19] <EbiDK|AWAY> I think this is the most useful XKCD to date :D http://xkcd.com/627/
[09:04:30] <roh_> roh_ is now known as roh
[09:19:19] <piasdom_> g'mornin all
[10:39:45] <archivist> does anybody have a url for southbend lathe screw cutting tables
[11:06:50] <piasdom_> archivist: like this ? http://www.armurerieduroi.com/pages/lathe/lathe_thread_cutting.html
[11:08:05] <archivist> Im looking for a ready made metric table for one
[11:14:44] <jthornton> archivist: in europe the 220v is it a hot and a neutral ?
[11:20:28] <alex_joni> yes
[11:20:34] <alex_joni> but it's 230V nowadays
[11:20:56] <jthornton> thanks
[11:21:46] <jthornton> a guy just sent me an e-mail about my fermentation temperature controller that I made
[11:21:49] <archivist> we are dropping to 230 from 240 and the rest are moving up to 230
[11:24:26] <jthornton> http://suburb.semo.net/jet1024/Controller.htm
[11:25:11] <jthornton> he is from Croatia and could not understand the electrical diagrams on that page :(
[11:41:31] <alex_joni> jthornton: I don't see anything that should present a problem :)
[11:42:52] <jthornton> thanks alex_joni
[12:00:37] <jthornton> * jthornton heads off to work
[12:11:10] <cradek> ha "This is how they looked before you dumped them out."
[13:28:52] <Dave911> Hi Guys, For a lathe retrofit with Analog +/-10 Volt drives equipped with differential encoders on the Z and X axis and a full encoder on the spindle - is there any reason to go to a board more powerful than
[13:28:53] <Dave911> the Mesa 5I20 ?? I'm planning on using Modbus to drive a 12 position tool turret. If you have a suggestion for different hardware - or any "don't do this or that" I'd appreciate it.. ;-)
[13:39:27] <BJT-Work> do you mean like upgrade to a 5i22
[14:02:02] <jepler> Dave911: it all depends on how many I/Os you need through the mesa card. Keep in mind that the 7i37 daughtercard is fixed 8 output / 16 input..
[14:03:30] <Dave911> Right, perhaps a more featured board like the 5I22 etc....
[14:04:25] <Dave911> >>7i37 daughtercard is fixed 8 output / 16 input..
[14:04:27] <Dave911> is that discrete I/O in addition to the analog?
[14:05:00] <jepler> the mesa cards use 50-pin connectors which each have 24 I/O points
[14:05:05] <jepler> an analog card uses one connector
[14:05:11] <jepler> the 7i37 daughtercard uses one connector
[14:05:21] <jepler> for the most part, it's mix & match for each connector
[14:06:08] <jepler> so after hooking up the analog daughtercard (I forget the part number) you have two connectors left on a 5i20. With two 7i37 daughtercards on those other two connectors you 2*8=16 isolated outputs and 2*16=32 isolated inputs
[14:10:16] <Dave911> OK, that should really be plenty other I/O I believe. I'd like to run the turret through Modbus and the ladder logic software interface to an external PLC. This machine has a lot of other I/O that the PC really doesn't need to know about. If I ask Mesa to put together a list of required parts for an EMC2 configuration they should be able to do that ... right?
[14:11:15] <jepler> Peter Wallace knows quite a lot about emc, but I don't think everyone who answers the phones is.
[14:11:42] <Dave911> OK, thanks - that is valuable info..
[14:12:04] <Dave911> And since I have your ear Jeff .... ;-) The threading functionality on EMC2 - would you consider it to be solid for lathe use?
[14:12:18] <jepler> yes
[14:12:35] <Dave911> Cool....
[14:13:03] <jepler> I assume you'll have a proper quadrature encoder on your spindle
[14:13:14] <skunkworks> Dave911: is there a reason why you wouldn't use emc
[14:13:17] <skunkworks> oops
[14:13:24] <skunkworks> emc ladder logic?
[14:13:44] <skunkworks> or did you know emc has built in classic ladder?
[14:14:29] <Dave911> Yep, this was a high end German lathe and it has very good encoders on all axes ....
[14:15:03] <skunkworks> the spindle needs to have an index channel (I would think it does though)
[14:15:41] <jepler> it's a bit surprising to me that mesa doesn't sell 50-pin ribbon cables
[14:16:52] <Dave911> I have the turret logic all worked out and running in a PLC already. All I need to do is to tell the PLC which tool I want to use and it automatically goes to it - taking the shorted path etc...
[14:16:53] <Dave911> If I need to redo the logic and put it into the emc ladder logic that would not be a big problem either..
[14:16:55] <Dave911> Yes, the encoders all have index pulses..
[14:17:27] <Dave911> The EMC ladder logic looks good so far, but I am still on the learning curve...
[14:18:34] <Dave911> I don't need this at the moment... but is anyone doing live tooling on a lathe with EMC2?? Any idea how that is done? Is there any "standard" config for that or is each one custom?
[14:19:36] <jepler> Dave911: your shopping list is probably 5i20 + 7i33TA + (1 or 2) 7i37TA. Plus 3 50-pin ribbon cables to run from the 5i20 to each of the daughtercards, but I don't see that mesa sells the cables.
[14:19:41] <Dave911> The lathe I have is capable of live tooling but I would need to find more hardware for the turret
[14:19:51] <jepler> I'm not aware of any live tooling lathes with emc yet
[14:20:36] <Dave911> Where do you get 50 pin cables? Or do you just buy the parts and put them together yourself?
[14:20:45] <skunkworks> heh - I don't know how well modbus is supported.. I think you have to use classic ladder to interface with it anyways. If you got on the email list and asked others might chime in.
[14:20:47] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/ladder_classic_ladder.html#r1_10
[14:21:26] <jepler> My day job had a cache of them -- 50 pins was an old SCSI cable
[14:21:28] <skunkworks> any used computer store would have them.
[14:21:45] <skunkworks> * skunkworks has a big box of them also.
[14:21:46] <jepler> flat is OK, twisted pairs is better
[14:21:47] <cradek> I just did a retrofit of a vmc with a fairly complex auto toolchanger. I did it entirely in classicladder with all the IO going right to a mesa card
[14:22:03] <skunkworks> cradek: how is that going?
[14:22:08] <Dave911> >> I don't know how well modbus is supported..
[14:22:10] <Dave911> The latest Live CD (Hardy Heron) had a setup in the PP config tool to setup Modbus.
[14:22:37] <cradek> skunkworks: done and working except for cleanup/painting/moving into the shop
[14:22:45] <skunkworks> yes - but there are little things like - the classic ladder gui needs to be running for modbus to work.
[14:23:05] <skunkworks> cradek: cool - what did you end up milling for a test?
[14:23:28] <cradek> heh, 8 splash screens done with coordinate system rotation
[14:23:37] <skunkworks> heh
[14:23:39] <skunkworks> cool
[14:23:45] <cradek> looks great - extremely precise machine
[14:23:50] <Dave911> The thing I really don't like about going from a board like the mesa to real I/O is that the Mesa I/O is all TTL right? The lathe is all 24 VDC plus it is all wired to the PLC and it works!
[14:24:21] <jepler> Dave911: that's the purpose of the 7i37 daughtercard
[14:24:25] <cradek> the 7i37 gives opto isolation
[14:24:34] <Dave911> Jeff, Thanks for the shopping list for Mesa .. :-)
[14:24:37] <cradek> or, I used some opto22 boards
[14:25:05] <jepler> you're absolutely right that you wouldn't connect a 24V I/O directly to the mesa pci card
[14:25:09] <cradek> but if there's a piece you can keep that is already working and makes it easy - by all means that sounds smart
[14:25:16] <skunkworks> Dave911: just letting you know a few issues so if you get into it - you are not supprised. (the link I sent earlier explains it)
[14:25:44] <cradek> retrofitting is all about knowing what to keep and what to replace!
[14:26:06] <Dave911> >> (the link I sent earlier explains it)
[14:26:07] <Dave911> I appreciate that - I will make sure and check that out..!
[14:26:18] <skunkworks> Dave911: you could rigid tap also :)
[14:26:22] <geo01005> jepler, mesa sells 50 pin ribbon cables, they just are not on the web site.
[14:26:57] <geo01005> The ribbon cables have a part number #AIO and a specification on the length.
[14:27:01] <Dave911> >>you could rigid tap also :)
[14:27:02] <Dave911> That would be really nice!
[14:27:14] <geo01005> I think the last 3' cable was $15.
[14:27:24] <jepler> geo01005: ok, thanks
[14:28:08] <Dave911> OK, so is it the norm to ask Mesa for a quote for all of this stuff?? Or do you just call with a Credit card in hand??
[14:28:21] <cradek> they have prices on their website.
[14:29:01] <Dave911> OK
[14:29:38] <jepler> they have a sales AT measnet.com address. If it's a complicated order I'd probably work it out in e-mail then use the phone just for CC info
[14:30:02] <jepler> (I hate talking on the phone)
[14:31:00] <Dave911> I need to do a little further experimenting with EMC2 and the PP driver and then buy some Mesa parts and do it....
[14:31:02] <Dave911> >>(I hate talking on the phone)
[14:31:03] <Dave911> I find email really good for nailing down equipment lists .............
[14:31:33] <skunkworks> Dave911: emc's threading capabilities - capabilities http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACvRilmIKDQ
[14:31:49] <Dave911> >>>>skunkworks>yes - but there are little things like - the classic ladder gui needs to be running for modbus to work. <<<<
[14:31:51] <Dave911> What are the ramifications of that?
[14:32:47] <skunkworks> none that I know of. Just one more thing up on the screen. With the native classic ladder - you setup the ladder with the gui but it doesn't need to be running after that (the gui)
[14:33:50] <Dave911> >>doesn't need to be running after that (the gui)
[14:33:52] <Dave911> OK, that should not be a problem....
[14:34:07] <jepler> it's just a program that emc will automatically start, and most of the time you'll leave it minimized
[14:34:32] <jepler> threads spinning at a few hundred RPM really don't show up very well on a youtube video :(
[14:35:14] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[14:35:40] <Dave911> >>>few hundred RPM really don't show up very well on a youtube video :(
[14:35:40] <Dave911> And if there is coolant running then it is even more difficult! ;-)
[14:36:01] <Dave911> What about using a touch screen?? Are you guys doing that or ??
[14:36:14] <jepler> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/fusee-DSC00563.jpg
[14:36:22] <jepler> none of the current GUIs are really designed for touchscreen use
[14:36:35] <archivist> I have one but not got the right roud tuit to make it work
[14:36:38] <jepler> the onscreen buttons are tiny
[14:39:06] <Dave911> OK, the touch screen was a "down the road" idea anyway....
[14:39:34] <tom3p> safety issues with touchscreens.. depth perception and hunting for button lets user 'touch' wrong thing (even with big btns). ditto for 'glidepoint' type mice
[14:40:13] <tom3p> accidently brushing glidepoint moves cursor and user may not notice
[14:40:18] <Dave911> That DSC00563 jpeg - I think I saw that being made on Utube before. Is that for a real machine part? If so what does it do??
[14:40:55] <tom3p> variable rate windlass, like auto transmission for speed of windup
[14:41:44] <tom3p> it was some clockwork for a soapbox derby racer, had acceleration
[14:41:47] <jepler> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/fusee-1.html http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/eng-week-02-21-08.html
[14:42:32] <Dave911> >>Safety issues with touchscreens....
[14:42:34] <Dave911> Well I use them all of the time in industrial applications - they are very well accepted. As far as safety - if you don't have all of the Estop and hardwired interlocks in place - they roast you. If you do then you can do just about anything as long as the operator is protected..
[14:43:22] <Dave911> >>it was some clockwork for a soapbox derby racer, had acceleration
[14:43:24] <Dave911> Gosh, I really couldn't think what that could be used for - but that is really smart for that... :-)
[14:43:54] <SWPadnos> apparently that mechanism has been used in clocks or watches for about the last 300 years
[14:44:07] <tom3p> yep but you gotta think in 'touch' terms not 'clunk' 'push' terms, i mean they have hair triggers and the old AB coolant on was not hair trigger
[14:45:28] <Dave911> >>>apparently that mechanism has been used in clocks or watches for about the last 300 years
[14:45:30] <Dave911> Looks like I am behind once again.. ;-)
[14:45:57] <SWPadnos> slightly :)
[14:46:25] <SWPadnos> regarding modbus - I don't know what has been done for I/O or PLC communication in EMC2
[14:46:46] <Dave911> But at this rate I will catch up ... uh no, oh well.... ;-)
[14:46:47] <SWPadnos> There are several HAL modbus drivers that aren't related to classicladder
[14:47:29] <SWPadnos> it may be necessary to modify one of those to run the toolchanger PLC
[14:47:39] <archivist> one day I may mill a fusee on the 5 axis
[14:47:46] <Dave911> Looking at the Modbus setup I saw in PP config setup I don't see any problem tying EMC2 into a PLC....
[14:48:00] <Dave911> Bits are bit...
[14:48:14] <SWPadnos> (since you'll probably need to set a register to select the next tool, change another output or register to start the change process, and read status back with register reads or other I/Os)
[14:48:56] <Dave911> Yep, I have a handshake routine already setup but I can change that if it is inconveient in the PLC
[14:49:40] <tom3p> and maybe home the toolchanger at startup if it gets powered off
[14:50:00] <Dave911> Or I could just map all of the Modbus I/O related to the turret to the classic ladder I/O and run it all from EMC2 (I think?)
[14:50:27] <Dave911> I'm fortunate that the turret has an array of prox switches so it always knows where it is at on power up..
[14:50:32] <SWPadnos> it depends on how the motion is actually done
[14:51:21] <SWPadnos> if the turret moves by stepper motor, and the PLC is generating the steps, then you would have a more complex HAL setup (since CL doesn't do step outputs simply)
[14:51:33] <tom3p> ah, you got an encoder of sorts
[14:51:40] <tom3p> is this dave e?
[14:51:48] <Dave911> This turret is hydraulically powered... so there is an I/O sequence that has to occur to rotate the turret CW or CCW.
[14:51:53] <SWPadnos> if you hit a solenoid or air valve, and monitor prox switches to sense the position, then CL/HAL can do it nicely
[14:51:57] <Dave911> Nope Dave C.. ;-)
[14:52:03] <tom3p> hiya
[14:52:10] <Dave911> Hi
[14:52:34] <archivist> * archivist is a Dave C also
[14:52:54] <SWPadnos> Dave911, take a look at the Mazak sample config. the toolchanger stuff in there should be somewhat similar to what you need
[14:52:57] <tom3p> the mazak had such and encoder and it was handled in CL
[14:53:11] <tom3p> archivist: hiya hiya
[14:53:16] <Dave911> Dave C - good name ;-)
[14:53:27] <Dave911> I will do that - thanks
[14:53:38] <archivist> popular in the 19coughs
[14:53:57] <tom3p> ;) dave IS here ( cheech and chong )
[14:54:27] <geo01005> Perhaps a step direction output to the PLC from classic Ladder?
[14:54:56] <geo01005> (instead of MODBUS)
[14:55:01] <tom3p> hydraulic
[14:55:06] <Dave911> >popular in the 19coughs
[14:55:08] <Dave911> I think so... do you find yourself often in the company of 2 or more other Dave's ??? I find myself in that situation all of the time!
[14:55:32] <archivist> Im circa 52
[14:55:45] <tom3p> but you're cheating, you're 1 up on the non-daves
[14:56:24] <Dave911> 1952 or 52 years ??
[14:56:33] <archivist> 1952
[14:56:44] <geo01005> Dave911, how many positions does your tool changer have?
[14:57:09] <Dave911> I'm just a yongster ( in my own mind ) at 1958
[14:57:53] <Dave911> The turret has 12 positions
[14:58:57] <Dave911> What happened to the Mazak at the CNC workshop site? Did one of you guys buy it?
[14:59:21] <tom3p> there are stepper like hydraulic motors.. how does you turret get into posn? hyd geneva gear? move to sensor?
[14:59:23] <Dave911> >>but you're cheating, you're 1 up on the non-daves
[14:59:24] <Dave911> OK, I'm a little slow today... I just got that.. ;-)
[14:59:44] <tom3p> and i'm from 1949!
[15:00:27] <geo01005> Instead of MODBUS your could use 6 IO lines, One from EMC asserts a tool Change, 4 for a 4 bit tool number, and another for a tool change complete signal from the PLC.
[15:00:43] <Dave911> Honestly I haven't taken the turret apart to see, but I think there is a Geneva type mechanism in there.
[15:00:50] <geo01005> * geo01005 is not sure why he dosen't like modbus.
[15:01:31] <tom3p> geo01005: right, using xtrnl plc makes it simple, and portable to another machine or ... for sale
[15:02:04] <tom3p> make the atc an object, a black box
[15:02:26] <Dave911> >>Instead of MODBUS your could use 6 IO lines, One from EMC asserts a tool Change, 4 for a 4 bit tool number
[15:02:28] <Dave911> That would be easy to change the PLC to....
[15:02:36] <skunkworks> 1973... old fogies
[15:02:54] <tom3p> fog you ;)
[15:03:04] <geo01005> I think it it also won't require any new components in EMC.
[15:03:34] <Dave911> Good news..
[15:04:05] <Dave911> >>1973... old fogies
[15:04:07] <Dave911> Geez, I have a number of cars older than that...
[15:05:35] <Dave911> Does anyone know what the plans are for the next EMC Fest? I heard about a CNC workshop in MI put on by Digital Machinist possibly?? Do you guys know anything about that??
[15:06:21] <tom3p> dunno, maybe RayH knows? is he writing for them?
[15:06:36] <Dave911> Dunno
[15:07:15] <Dave911> I don't have a subscription - just heard about this through the grapevine ..
[15:07:41] <SWPadnos> I don't think there are any plans at this point, only ideas (re: fest)
[15:07:42] <Dave911> >>through the grapevine .. What us old guys used before the Net
[15:07:45] <skunkworks> Dave911: that is about all I have heard also.
[15:08:15] <Dave911> OK
[15:08:22] <archivist> I wantz one this side of the pond
[15:08:44] <Dave911> Are you in Europe?
[15:08:52] <archivist> UK
[15:10:17] <Dave911> I'm in USA - Indiana - close to the giant wormhole that is sucking the economy down :-(
[15:10:55] <archivist> my boss is ruining the economy here, job ends next week
[15:11:59] <tom3p> there's a huge home shop population in the UK. I'd think there'd be a lot of emc interest ( tomp looks at stacks of ancient Model Engineer mags)
[15:12:32] <Dave911> Wow, I am really sorry to hear that. I went through that 6 years ago... Then went off on my own - not an easy transition and now I get to ride the economy up and down directly...
[15:12:32] <skunkworks> BJT-Work: high speed internet at home?
[15:12:33] <archivist> far too many mach2 users over here, they need re educating
[15:12:38] <archivist> mach3
[15:12:43] <tom3p> "Model Engineer Magazine was first published (in the United Kingdom) to support the hobby of model engineering in 1898 by Percival Marshall"
[15:12:53] <tom3p> in frkn 1898!
[15:13:23] <archivist> I have some pre ww1
[15:14:00] <skunkworks> there is a british guy that would come over here and gave mach talks.
[15:14:04] <skunkworks> at the fest.
[15:14:34] <tom3p> yeh, he was with the mach creator at the 2nd cardinal fest
[15:14:37] <Dave911> >>support the hobby of model engineering in 1898
[15:14:39] <BJT-Work> skunkworks: the tower is up :)
[15:14:39] <Dave911> Wow. My ancestors were busy cutting down trees in MI so they could plant crops back then..
[15:15:11] <Dave911> You might be talking about John Prentice??
[15:15:19] <skunkworks> yes - I think so.
[15:15:42] <Dave911> I think I was at the 2nd Cardinal fest - I might have met some of you guys - was that in 2006?
[15:15:59] <skunkworks> I was probably there.
[15:16:17] <Dave911> The big Mazak wasn't running yet.
[15:16:50] <Dave911> I heard that Roland was doing better - too bad he had to shut down Cardinal..
[15:19:17] <tom3p> glad to hear hes better, sorry bout cardinal. he had a big ol AGie wedm that was borqd, i just couldnt fix it, no parts, like the FestWerkSpeicher was dead and that was magnetic torrid memory, argh!
[15:23:04] <tom3p> oh and an Olympia paper tape reader that used fingers instead of optos... tricky mechanisms
[15:24:01] <Dave911> Wow, that is some old stuff - magnetic torrid memory - aka core memory. That stuff was expensive!
[15:24:03] <Dave911> Speaking of EDM - has anyone done a wire EDM with EMC2 ??
[15:25:03] <geo01005> I have an EDM like project I'm using EMC for.
[15:25:09] <geo01005> but not wire.
[15:25:34] <Dave911> I know of one that is broken but in great condition. Like almost new looking.. I'm sure I could get it very cheaply. Actually I should probably fix it for free if I can. The shop owner has done a lot for me.
[15:26:19] <Dave911> I think the tricky part of wire edm is the feedback loop from the wire current to the feed rate.. At least that is what I have heard.
[15:28:01] <geo01005> Yes, that is tricky, but also being able to back up when a wire breaks, and stuff like that.
[15:28:23] <skunkworks> emc as adaptive feed rate pin that has been used for that.
[15:28:37] <skunkworks> emc will not backup though - yet.
[15:29:51] <geo01005> backing up us key in Wire EDM.
[15:31:19] <skunkworks> we need to get chris a wire edm ;)
[15:32:41] <Dave911> Guys.. I gotta go. But I'll be back :-) Thanks loads for all of the info.. I really appreciate it!!! :-)
[15:47:09] <tom3p> backing up has to be understood... before backing up theres a huge difference in a time/position control (like emc) and a process controll (like edm, ploishing, force feedback, crush grinding, torque screwing.... )
[15:47:10] <tom3p> before backing up, you need to be in the right distance which means a tiny bit closer now, and now a tiny bit further, but on the path all the time
[15:47:58] <tom3p> then, at a catastrophe, you back up the huge ( many many microns) that people refer to as 'backing up'
[15:49:15] <jepler> for edm, hal would make a great hardware interface layer -- you can keep all the existing hardware hardware interfaces, classicladder, and so on. but you'll have to write a new realtime motion controller and new user interfaces
[15:49:43] <tom3p> yep, b4 you re-write the motion controller, you have to un-write it ;)
[15:51:23] <jepler> huh, the blackberry trackball doesn't give a quadrature signal for each axis. instead, each axis has two rolling cylinders; depending on the direction of movement, only one cylinder rolls
[15:51:33] <jepler> I wonder why they did it that way
[15:51:36] <tom3p> i agree that most stays the same, and hope to work more on it. i plan to grow this way :... 1 single axis plc like edm, 2) mux axis sink edm 3) mux axis wedm
[15:51:44] <tom3p> jepler, thats clever
[15:52:05] <tom3p> some kinda clutch?
[15:52:24] <jepler> I dunno about the internals, just reading http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9320
[15:53:45] <tom3p> cool ^D save that
[15:56:11] <tom3p> ooh, dont have to unwrite it, have to know the inputs and outputs of the black box, if it can be reduced to such
[16:07:22] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm5_L6lAwNE
[16:23:07] <tom3p> cool, i dont HAVE to have OrCad and Vista, i can print schema's to PDF and read off the thumb drive while inside virtual ubuntu-emc2. sweet
[16:35:30] <Jymm> skunkworks: Is that your video?
[16:35:48] <tom3p> eff! but with a pdf i cant highlite an entire net and see the pins i have to solder/test
[16:36:11] <tom3p> rantenki ??
[16:38:31] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnQrORXSRBU
[16:38:33] <skunkworks> no
[16:45:26] <Jymm> skunkworks: How is the garage coming along?
[16:48:29] <motioncontrol> good evening at all
[16:49:13] <tom3p> and good evening at you
[16:52:12] <tom3p> where is it evening now? eastern europe?
[16:52:47] <motioncontrol> i'm in italy
[16:52:57] <tom3p> buona notte!
[16:53:07] <motioncontrol> you are italian
[16:53:18] <tom3p> no, welsh ;)
[16:53:26] <motioncontrol> ok
[16:53:59] <motioncontrol> i don't understand welsh
[16:54:24] <motioncontrol> norvegia?
[16:54:24] <tom3p> me neither
[16:54:34] <Jymm> google might
[16:54:58] <tom3p> type in 'drae goch'
[16:58:12] <tom3p> http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=English&to=Welsh they got it 1/2 right
[17:02:21] <motioncontrol> seb_kuzminsky, hello and good evening.excuse have news for spi implementation in emc2 on mesa card?
[17:07:30] <seb_kuzminsky> motioncontrol: no news, nothing's happened yet :-/
[17:11:11] <numen> hi
[17:12:12] <tom3p> motioncontrol: are you wanting spi for position or for measurement?
[17:32:06] <motioncontrol> tom3p, excuse i don't see your message i have problem with network, repeate please
[17:35:26] <tom3p> np... are you wanting spi for position or for measurement?
[17:38:52] <motioncontrol> tom3p, no i want use the spi for digital i/O, but you know a system for measument ?
[17:42:05] <tom3p> spi is used on mitutoyo digital micrometers and calipers, and have printers that hook up thru spi
[17:42:42] <tom3p> i think other japanese measurement tools use it also (like profilometers )
[17:44:53] <motioncontrol> ok i see some day before a spi component write of "geoo..." i don't remember , for mesa card .you have info?
[17:45:02] <motioncontrol> tom3p,
[17:46:07] <tom3p> geo01005: are you about? have interest in SPI?
[17:46:46] <fenn> he was trying to control a reprap extruder w/microcontroller i think
[17:47:33] <tom3p> motioncontrol: i have no info about spi with mesa. i do have a mesa card and have not used it yet
[17:47:39] <tom3p> fenn thx
[17:48:13] <motioncontrol> the people for spi is GoSlowJimbo, i have info of Peter of mesa
[17:53:09] <geo01005> tom3p, I currently have a SPI thermocouple chip for my reprap extruder. I currently use the Hostmot2 raw mode to talk to it. But I had several other applications that would use SPI digital I/O as well as SPI ADC chips.
[17:54:25] <geo01005> Mesa already makes cards that have the SPI capability, we just need HostMot2 software support.
[17:54:27] <motioncontrol> geo01005, i want read on emc2 the analogin and have the anolg out.is possible?
[17:55:02] <geo01005> In general, with the raw mode SPI stuff it isn't fast enough to do that.
[17:55:20] <geo01005> I only read the thermocouple every 20ms.
[17:55:55] <geo01005> Digital IO is doable at close to servo update rates though.
[17:56:11] <motioncontrol> geo01005, i thing for digital i/O and normal analog in and out 20ms is good
[17:57:04] <geo01005> Then it is doable... just not ideal.
[17:57:17] <geo01005> No documentation.
[17:57:40] <motioncontrol> geo01005, this is the spi componet for mesa .the code is write of goslowjimbo http://pastebin.ca/1541790
[17:58:23] <motioncontrol> geo01005, i don't can use it you have a idea?
[17:59:06] <geo01005> Yes that component is based off my SPI component.
[17:59:58] <geo01005> do you have a 7i64
[18:00:33] <motioncontrol> geo01005, yes i have 2 7i64 and 1 5i20
[18:00:46] <motioncontrol> and cable and accesories
[18:01:23] <motioncontrol> geo01005, how enable raw mode in mesa card?
[18:01:42] <geo01005> see the Hostmot2 man page.
[18:03:08] <geo01005> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#Raw%20Mode
[18:03:12] <motioncontrol> geo01005, in hardware i connect the cable spi the 7i64 at the 6 x spi board cable connetor of mesa and the 50 pin cable at p4 connector of 5i20?
[18:03:47] <geo01005> I'm not sure... Depends on the firmware you use for the 5i20.
[18:04:08] <motioncontrol> i use hmi_pci
[18:04:09] <geo01005> You will need a firmware that supports SPI.
[18:04:40] <motioncontrol> the firmware is hostmod 2 _pci
[18:04:43] <geo01005> raw mode only works with hostmot2, not hm2_pci.
[18:05:39] <motioncontrol> geo01005, but hm2_pci is more perfmonce for servo the classic hostmot 2 ?
[18:06:55] <geo01005> I have no idea about that... Anybody know if hm2_pci is faster than hostmot2?
[18:07:34] <motioncontrol> geo01005, but hostmot2 is the original firmware of mesa?
[18:08:11] <cradek> I think they are used together. you are not on the right track here. see 'man hostmot2'
[18:09:32] <motioncontrol> cradek, yes i don't have read the manual i want know only generic info for after read
[18:10:11] <motioncontrol> geo01005, please have a hal file for example the enable the raw mode?
[18:10:26] <geo01005> I don't have it here at work..
[18:11:52] <motioncontrol> geo01005, ok thanks i prove at read the manual , and after if you want can help me.i want load the hostmot2 firmware and use the spi 7i64 for read the digital I/O
[18:11:58] <geo01005> loadrt hostmot2 "your normal parameters here" enable_raw
[18:13:06] <motioncontrol> geo01005, ok now i understand. after in hal file i loadrt spicomponent ?
[18:13:27] <geo01005> yes.
[18:13:34] <geo01005> But there is much more to it than that.
[18:14:45] <geo01005> Because HostMot2 dosen't know about SPI, you have to configure the FPGA to enable SPI, as well as get the SPI physical pins the correct direction, pull up and so on.
[18:15:32] <motioncontrol> geo01005, i have a firmware of Peter for spi implemetation is this?
[18:16:03] <geo01005> Yes.
[18:16:21] <motioncontrol> geo01005, the name is SVSP8_6_7i64.BIT ?
[18:16:42] <geo01005> Yes, I don't have that file but it sounds correct.
[18:16:49] <geo01005> It should have a .pin file with it.
[18:17:05] <geo01005> In the .pin file you will see if there is and SPI support.
[18:17:30] <motioncontrol> geo01005, i can open this file?
[18:18:14] <motioncontrol> i don't understand .pin ?
[18:18:35] <geo01005> there should be a text file called SVSP8_6_7i64.PIN with the firmware.
[18:18:59] <motioncontrol> geo01005, no, only one file.BIT
[18:19:37] <geo01005> well, I would assume it is correct.
[18:20:26] <motioncontrol> geo01005, but i load this firmware i don't load the hostmost2 driver ?
[18:20:32] <geo01005> The SPI RT component should do most of the work for you.
[18:21:20] <geo01005> The hostmot2 driver uses different firmwares, the SVSP8_6_7i64.bit is one of them.
[18:21:44] <motioncontrol> geo01005, normaly i write loadrt hm2_pci config="firmware=hm2/firmware/5i20/SVST8_4.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0
[18:22:28] <motioncontrol> geo01005, i now write loadrt hm2_pci config="firmware=hm2/firmware/5i20/SVST8_6_7i64.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0
[18:22:44] <motioncontrol> ?
[18:23:15] <geo01005> Yes, but you have to put SVST8_6_7i64.bit in the right place.
[18:23:58] <motioncontrol> geo01005, yes i copy the file in "firmware=hm2/firmware/5i20/
[18:24:05] <geo01005> you also must symlink it to /lib/firmware...
[18:24:29] <geo01005> I don't remember the details of that part.
[18:24:39] <motioncontrol> geo01005, yes i have create a link at lib/firmware
[18:25:10] <motioncontrol> geo01005, in the hardware i connect the 50 pin cable the 6 x spi interfate at p4 the 5i20?
[18:25:37] <geo01005> I would have to see the .pin file to verify that, but it sound correct.
[18:28:55] <motioncontrol> geo01005, for load the spicomponent i write : loadrt spicomponent servo-thred and after addf spicomponent count=1 ?
[18:29:31] <geo01005> have you installed spicomponent with comp yet?
[18:30:38] <motioncontrol> geo01005, i have rename the file spicomponent and copy in component directory and i want make the src.is correct?
[18:31:23] <geo01005> comp --install spicomponent.comp
[18:32:35] <motioncontrol> geo01005, ok tomorrow i prove .tomorrow if i have problem can help me please.?
[18:32:43] <geo01005> I should be around.
[18:33:04] <geo01005> Hope it works :)
[18:34:15] <motioncontrol> geo01005, ok thenak for your patience and good work. i want lunch in italy are 8,30 pm
[18:35:08] <geo01005> ok:)
[19:56:59] <pilotltd> Hi guys any lathe users on?
[20:01:25] <pilotltd> Correct me if I'm wrong, but in G18 mode, front toolpost, arcs are reversed. Why does emc/axis display and run them incorrectly - ie not reversed?
[20:09:08] <clip9> Programming the hal is pretty fun!
[20:12:52] <cradek> pilotltd: if looking from above, front toolpost, G2 is ccw, G3 is cw
[20:13:41] <cradek> (because "Y" points down toward the floor - you have to look from there for the arcs to be the usual direction)
[20:17:34] <pilotltd> Yes - I realise the lying under the lathe (right hand rule) EMC is NOT doing that.
[20:19:08] <cradek> looks right to me
[20:19:43] <cradek> running sim/lathe, g0x1z0 / g18g2i-1f99, arc goes ccw on the screen (which is an above view, X pointing down)
[20:20:55] <pilotltd> Not here - a g2 should do what appears as "anticlockwise arc" from the ops point of view stood up looking down on the lathe, it's not
[20:21:47] <cradek> I agree that's what it should do, and that's what I see - I cannot explain the difference
[20:22:11] <pilotltd> I'm running code in axis and it's incorrect
[20:22:21] <cradek> ok we're going in circles
[20:22:25] <cradek> haha
[20:22:45] <cradek> you are running emc 2.3?
[20:22:57] <pilotltd> Tool has direction 6, which was only othe thing I could think of
[20:23:06] <pilotltd> Yes 2.3.2
[20:23:24] <cradek> tool orientation does not affect it
[20:23:32] <cradek> send me your gcode? or you try mine?
[20:23:40] <pilotltd> How do you define front ot rear toolpost?
[20:24:04] <cradek> positive X is the tool moving toward me when I'm sitting in my chair
[20:24:11] <cradek> positive Z is the tool moving to my right
[20:24:19] <cradek> just like the AXIS preview
[20:25:13] <pilotltd> THat has no relevance then to this arcs problem
[20:25:23] <cradek> you do this experiment: running sim/lathe, g0x1z0 / g18g2i-1f99, arc goes ccw on the screen
[20:28:01] <pilotltd> try this
[20:28:03] <pilotltd> cannon12 8-24-2009
[20:28:03] <pilotltd> N15 G18 G21 G64 G80 G90 G90.1 M49 G40 G49
[20:28:03] <pilotltd> N20 F0.38 M5
[20:28:03] <pilotltd> N25 G0 X51. Z25.
[20:28:03] <pilotltd> ;CHANGE TO TOOL # 01
[20:28:04] <pilotltd> ;GHMR16
[20:28:06] <pilotltd> N40 T01 M6
[20:28:08] <pilotltd> N45 G0 X31.351 Z2.54 G96 D1000 S185 M4 M8
[20:28:10] <pilotltd> ;ROUGH TURN
[20:28:12] <pilotltd> N55 G1 X31.351 Z-189.66
[20:28:14] <pilotltd> N60 G1 X31.75 Z-189.66
[20:28:16] <pilotltd> N65 G1 X32.648 Z-189.211
[20:28:18] <pilotltd> N70 G0 X32.648 Z2.54
[20:28:18] <Jymm> PASTEBIN
[20:28:20] <pilotltd> N75 G1 X31.291 Z2.54
[20:28:21] <Jymm> PASTEBIN
[20:28:22] <pilotltd> N80 G1 X31.291 Z-186.859
[20:28:22] <Jymm> PASTEBIN
[20:28:24] <pilotltd> N85 G2 X31.351 Z-187.049 I15.075 K-187.049
[20:28:26] <pilotltd> N90 G1 X31.351 Z-189.66
[20:28:28] <pilotltd> N95 G1 X32.249 Z-189.211
[20:28:30] <pilotltd> N100 G0 X32.249 Z2.54
[20:28:32] <pilotltd> N105 G1 X29.776 Z2.54
[20:28:34] <pilotltd> N110 G1 X29.776 Z-173.752
[20:28:35] <cradek> ffs
[20:28:36] <pilotltd> N115 G2 X31.291 Z-174.646 I14.739 K-174.646
[20:28:38] <pilotltd> N120 G1 X32.189 Z-174.197
[20:28:40] <pilotltd> N125 G0 X32.189 Z2.54
[20:28:42] <pilotltd> N130 G1 X29.492 Z2.54
[20:28:44] <pilotltd> N135 G1 X29.492 Z-173.24
[20:28:46] <pilotltd> N140 G2 X29.638 Z-173.536 I14.099 K-173.557
[20:28:48] <pilotltd> N145 G1 X29.648 Z-173.707
[20:28:50] <pilotltd> N150 G3 X29.677 Z-173.745 I14.884 K-173.705
[20:28:52] <pilotltd> N155 G2 X29.776 Z-173.752 I14.739 K-174.646
[20:28:54] <pilotltd> N160 G1 X30.674 Z-173.303
[20:28:56] <pilotltd> N165 G0 X30.674 Z2.54
[20:29:25] <Jymm> pilotltd: Dude.... http://codepad.org or the like
[20:30:18] <pilotltd> I only posted a bit of it !
[20:30:33] <cradek> can you give me two lines I can type into MDI that show the problem?
[20:30:48] <Jymm> pilotltd: 3-5 lines max, more than that use a pastebin please
[20:30:56] <cradek> either that, or go do the test I said. I already tried it, and I'm telling you, it does what we both say is right
[20:31:46] <cradek> or, put your whole file somewhere where I can get it like Jymm says. I'm not going to copy dozens of lines out of my irc window one at a time to reconstruct it.
[20:33:10] <pilotltd> http://codepad.org/V1RBco9m
[20:35:21] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/g2-arc-goes-anticlockwise-onscreen.png
[20:36:20] <Jymm> jepler: wut tat?
[20:39:08] <jepler> best I could come up with to demonstrate with a still image the direction of an arc on a lathe. The white is the preview plot and the blue is the live plot, showing that the tool is going CCW from the screen's point of view
[20:41:43] <cradek> the arc on line 16 of your file is a G2 and it does go ccw as programmed
[20:42:10] <cradek> the preview and the motion match
[20:42:16] <pilotltd> !**$%*** - looks like my post processor has reversed the arcs back
[20:42:16] <jepler> pilotltd's code won't even load for me, it gives an error on line 16
[20:42:17] <jepler> Radius to end of arc differs from radius to start: start=(Z-186.8590,X31.2910) center=(Z-187.0490,X15.0750) end=(Z-187.0490,X31.3510) r1=16.2171 r2=16.2760
[20:42:19] <cradek> it's a stupid arc, sure, but it's in your program
[20:42:23] <cradek> jepler: add a g7
[20:43:37] <pilotltd> STupid me - sorry guys error my end - Delcam update has screwed my post processor up !!! SO much for 10K per year support fee!!!
[20:45:01] <cradek> brb
[20:47:13] <Jymm> jepler: ah, ok.
[20:47:44] <Jymm> Hey guys, before you buy an "electronic controlled appliance"... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/nyregion/23about.html?_r=3
[20:48:00] <Jymm> OLD SKOOL RULES!!!
[20:51:03] <pilotltd> They have changed the options in the post processor writer, you previously had to define arcs for both front and rear toolposts, they have removed that option, so the arcs output were incorrect for front toolpost.
[21:33:32] <LRhe66> Hi, newbee at emc2 needs help about configuration. Anybody knows if it's possible to have different enable pins at parport? With stepconf there's only one 'amplifier' pin. I'd like to enable only this axis, which will be moved, at axis with no movement the enable pin shoul be off. I's possible?
[21:33:57] <archivist> dot do that
[21:34:01] <archivist> dont
[21:34:57] <archivist> coodinated moves need all to be working, and also you need power to maintain position
[21:38:23] <LRhe66> My stepper and machine needs no current to hold position. If the enable pin is on at a longer time without duty cycle I need separate cooling fans. At the moment if machine is ON all enable signals xyz are on - independed if movement is planned. My circuit becomes to hot.
[21:39:29] <archivist> you will need current to hold, its a mistake with stepper to think otherwise
[21:40:41] <archivist> steppers do not hold position when off they will drop to nearest magnetic position
[21:43:17] <archivist> and its normal for steppers to be on the hot side of warm
[21:44:31] <Jymm> hot side of warm is a relative term =)
[21:45:20] <archivist> one of mine makes people jump :)
[21:45:25] <LRhe66> sorry, i think at most configurations with spindles and high forces the stepper can't rotate without current. I've used yet a simple nc program (NC-Start) which enables only this axis which should be moved - there was no problem for my homebrew machine
[21:46:14] <archivist> LRhe66, you will come across failure doing that
[21:46:40] <LRhe66> why exist different xenable, yenable... at emc2?
[21:47:16] <cradek> no reason - they all go on and off together
[21:48:49] <cradek> also, archivist is right, sorry, you'll have to fix your hardware
[21:49:05] <Jymm> archivist: Do you have the "hot potato stepper motors" or what?
[21:49:39] <archivist> most are heat sinked well but one is not
[21:49:57] <Jymm> archivist: what size?
[21:50:13] <archivist> gets all the lusers who use it as a hand rest
[21:50:27] <LRhe66> Ok, I need a larger heatsink and/or cooler
[21:50:47] <Jymm> archivist: Damn dude, if you're frying eggs or giving ppl 3rd degree burns, replace that sucker.
[21:50:53] <cradek> or a smarter (chopping) driver, or a lower power supply voltage
[21:51:25] <LRhe66> thanks
[21:51:48] <Jymm> archivist: How much are you overdriving it? x50 ?!
[21:52:14] <archivist> no but at/ near the limit
[21:52:19] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[21:52:19] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-08-24.txt
[21:52:21] <Jymm> archivist: Define limit
[21:52:41] <archivist> bout 3A 30 v
[21:52:46] <Jymm> archivist: 20-25x it usally the limit
[21:53:06] <archivist> nah 40 of bestest
[21:53:08] <Jymm> 30V hmmmm, that dont seem like much.
[21:53:10] <archivist> is
[21:54:01] <archivist> is on the rotary carrying the smaller rotary
[21:54:01] <LRhe66> it's a simple L297 with BD677 and only a lttle heatsink 16cm² at 1,5A (each phase, constant current)
[21:54:20] <Jymm> archivist: Plug it into 220VAC, that should provide a break in voltage for ya ;)
[21:54:34] <archivist> LRhe66, dont skimp on heatsinks
[21:55:00] <frallzor> heatsinks good!
[21:55:16] <Jymm> glycol better!
[21:55:18] <frallzor> active cooling better
[21:55:29] <archivist> I wonder if the BD6&& is fast enough for the switching
[21:55:48] <archivist> it will get hot if too slow
[21:56:14] <LRhe66> or permanent on
[21:58:40] <Jymm> On my Xylotex box, I have 6 fans =)
[21:59:23] <archivist> I have no fans on my drivers
[21:59:37] <archivist> convection cooled
[21:59:42] <Jymm> lol
[21:59:59] <Jymm> s/cooled/fried/
[22:00:07] <archivist> better switchers run cooler
[22:00:39] <archivist> only the vfd and pc have fans
[22:00:56] <Jymm> I like mechanical cooling very much, bt I'm not a thermaldynamic engineer so we just stack on the fanage
[22:01:57] <Jymm> especially when there's know thermal issues.
[22:02:01] <Jymm> known
[22:02:29] <archivist> design fixes issues
[22:03:04] <Jymm> Heh, you tell John (?) that I seriosuly doubt he's going to do any changes
[22:20:36] <tom3p> archivist: is Model Engineer still published? I heard it ended back in the 80's and I couldnt subscribe anymore. but i just saw a cover of a Sept 2009 issue with a nice shaper on it.
[22:21:07] <archivist> still around, been through a few owners though
[22:21:54] <tom3p> dang, gonna be hard to find a library that has kept up
[22:22:45] <D-haus> hey is anyone aware of the existence of a solidworks irc channel?
[22:23:13] <archivist> freenode is about open source
[22:23:30] <archivist> some of use use it though
[22:23:51] <D-haus> ahh, i see
[22:24:03] <D-haus> what server would i best off be looking in
[22:24:18] <archivist> no idea
[22:24:42] <D-haus> you use solidworks?
[22:25:49] <archivist> yes but not a lot
[22:26:11] <toastyde1th> lol solidworks
[22:30:37] <frallzor> whats lol about it?
[22:31:11] <toastyde1th> it's okay.
[22:31:44] <tom3p> re: model engineer, a index of all issues from 1898 to 2009 at http://www.itech.net.au/modelengineer/
[22:33:32] <archivist> tom3p, it spawned a sister mag a few years back which is still going Model Engineers Workshop
[22:33:37] <geo01005> Another good reason to use open source software...Our license server has been down since Friday morning...Hard to do any CAD without a license.
[22:34:53] <toastyde1th> break out the old drafting arm and get crackin'
[22:35:20] <archivist> ! never
[22:35:36] <archivist> I think 3d now
[22:36:26] <archivist> so nice to move stuff around to check movements
[22:36:48] <tom3p> archivist: i used to take buses into chicago suburbs, the elevated tram into chicago, then another bus to the single place that sold the magazine in Evanston. I'd take 30 or 40 seconds to buy it then started the trip home, took all day :)
[22:37:26] <Jymm> License server.... Eeeeeeeewwwwwwww
[22:37:30] <archivist> Ive been to the windy city
[22:37:36] <toastyde1th> my dad bought me a subscription to "digital machinist"
[22:37:48] <Jymm> If you can't toss up a VM or boot from a cd forget it
[22:37:56] <toastyde1th> not quite the same quality of the magazines of yesteryear
[22:40:56] <archivist> reading model engineer at lunchtime got me my first lathe, someone noticed and mentioned he no longer used his
[22:41:20] <Jymm> how much?
[22:42:17] <archivist> was a loooong time ago may have been £70
[22:42:56] <archivist> a Zyto 3" 3/8 center height
[22:43:56] <archivist> one day I shall finish the Vacuum engine I started way back then
[22:45:17] <archivist> 1970 136 3397 683 Editor Hot Air Engines Brenen, Vacuum Rotor "flame-licker" engine possible
[22:48:59] <tom3p> flammenfresser http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O3-Ug4J9ns
[23:05:47] <clip9> hm.. any reason for vcpparse.py to load xml.dom.ext instead of just xml.dom?
[23:06:15] <clip9> seems to work fine with just xml.dom :P
[23:12:07] <clip9> Probably dosen't matter. but xml.dom.ext was missing from my karmic install.
[23:27:32] <eric_unterhause1> so I'm still stuck trying to design an e-stop circuit
[23:27:56] <Jymm> safety relay FTW!
[23:28:56] <eric_unterhause1> that's what I was thinking
[23:29:41] <Jymm> ok, so what's the problem?
[23:30:01] <eric_unterhause1> do I really need a safety relay?
[23:30:16] <Jymm> I would HUGHLY recommend it
[23:30:20] <Jymm> HIGHLY
[23:31:31] <Jymm> I know a "safety relay" just sounds like any other relay, but tey are really very cool in what they do.
[23:32:04] <eric_unterhause1> I was trying to figure out how to make a relay that had to be reset if the estop switch was pressed. It's an issue
[23:32:27] <Jymm> that's one thing a safety relay does
[23:33:14] <frallzor> why not just buy a e-stop?
[23:33:26] <eric_unterhause1> what's an e-stop?
[23:33:27] <Jymm> the safety "areas" must be closed, only then will it allow you to reset it.
[23:34:08] <frallzor> if you dont know what e-stop is, how can you be making a e-stop circuit? =)
[23:34:08] <toastyde1th> hook the NO side of the relay to both the control, and the power relay
[23:34:34] <Jymm> toastyde1th: WRONG! that circuit is flawed
[23:34:41] <toastyde1th> ?
[23:35:13] <Jymm> DO NOT USE A RELAY THATS BEEN WIRED IN A LATCHING METHOD as an estop circuit
[23:35:19] <toastyde1th> why not?
[23:35:40] <Jymm> If the START button is held in, it bypasses the ESTOP circuit
[23:36:15] <Jymm> So, if you have a failing START button that sticks closed, it will NEVER stop when you hit the big red button
[23:36:55] <eric_unterhause1> I think it's more likely that a relay would get stuck closed
[23:37:15] <Jymm> Well, that'a naother thing that a saety relay prevents
[23:37:25] <Jymm> fscking kybd.
[23:37:35] <toastyde1th> jymm: so how's a saftey relay wired
[23:37:53] <Jymm> toastyde1th: Look at a diagram of one.
[23:38:37] <toastyde1th> or you could spend the two seconds it takes to explain it
[23:38:47] <eric_unterhause1> they are pretty complex
[23:39:08] <Jymm> toastyde1th: It's far more complicated than 2s would explain it.
[23:39:39] <Jymm> eric_unterhause1: what is your control voltage?
[23:39:46] <eric_unterhause1> 24v
[23:40:30] <Jymm> eric_unterhause1: Just one example
[23:41:52] <Jymm> eric_unterhause1: those are cheap
[23:42:08] <Jymm> eric_unterhause1: you in the US ?
[23:42:17] <eric_unterhause1> yes
[23:42:28] <Jymm> eric_unterhause1: Get that last one.
[23:42:34] <eric_unterhause1> I think I looked through the manual for that one when you got yours
[23:43:08] <Jymm> eric_unterhause1: Well, once you play with it a bit, a light turns on and then you go "OH! I get it now!!!"
[23:43:24] <Jymm> they are very very cool
[23:47:49] <tom3p> google 'how does safety relay"... choose the google book except ( the url is way to long to paste here )
[23:48:14] <tom3p> Practical machinery safety By Dave Macdonald page 116
[23:52:27] <tom3p> for the sipffy pilz safety relay http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/5410.pdf
[23:52:38] <tom3p> sippfy? spiffy!
[23:55:00] <clip9> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3536/3225255407_596aa5bdff.jpg
[23:55:05] <clip9> this is what you need :P
[23:57:17] <eric_unterhause1> tomp, thanks
[23:58:30] <clip9> Some of them have really high current ratings so you can just connect them to the main supply :P