#emc | Logs for 2009-07-28

[02:32:30] <cradek> I got the lube pump pumping lube!
[02:33:00] <jepler> did it pump it in the right direction, or in other directions?
[02:33:02] <jepler> (cool)
[02:33:08] <SWPadnos> it's not an uber-luber?
[02:33:10] <cradek> the right direction
[02:33:12] <SWPadnos> err, now
[02:33:26] <cradek> there's oil at ... some ... of the right places now
[02:33:31] <SWPadnos> a super duper uber luber
[02:33:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:33:37] <cradek> I probably have some plugged lines
[02:33:44] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:33:44] <cradek> (and I'm not sure how to deal with that)
[02:33:49] <SWPadnos> and maybe nozzles
[02:34:04] <SWPadnos> you get new line and nozzles, or you get a very very long 1mm or so pipe brush
[02:34:48] <famoldin> hi
[02:35:17] <famoldin> somebody is looking this chat?
[02:35:35] <SWPadnos> there are 51 people attached
[02:35:38] <SWPadnos> (including bots)
[02:36:09] <famoldin> can somebody help me ??? my problem is the charge pump
[02:36:22] <SWPadnos> you need to explain the problem before anyone can help you
[02:37:01] <famoldin> ok i´m using emc2 on xubuntu and ubuntu but it doesn´t charge pump
[02:37:30] <SWPadnos> what version of emc2?
[02:37:37] <SWPadnos> how did you set up the charge pump?
[02:37:46] <famoldin> last, i think 2.3
[02:38:23] <famoldin> in the stepconfig window i select charge pump in the pin 17
[02:38:25] <SWPadnos> you need to check. there are several 2.3.x versions, the latest was released yesterday
[02:38:28] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:38:35] <SWPadnos> what hardware
[02:38:37] <SWPadnos> ?
[02:38:50] <famoldin> rutex driver and a interface
[02:39:12] <famoldin> i would give the name in a minute of the interface
[02:40:18] <famoldin> sorry but it doesn´t have a name
[02:40:40] <SWPadnos> that may make it difficult
[02:40:41] <famoldin> there is just a label in the transformer its say JAMECO
[02:40:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:40:55] <famoldin> wait a minute plz
[02:47:41] <famoldin> i´m looking for a pic in my pc if i don´t found it i will take a picture
[02:48:11] <SWPadnos> when does your charge pump need to be enabled?
[02:48:36] <SWPadnos> EMC has 3 machine states: e-stopped, machine off (also called estop reset), and machine on
[02:49:00] <SWPadnos> emc will only command motion while in the "machine on" state
[02:50:32] <famoldin> ok
[02:50:39] <famoldin> i find a pic in the web
[02:50:45] <famoldin> http://www.cnczone.com/modules/Reviews/cover.php?coverid=3&stc=1&thumb=1
[02:51:40] <SWPadnos> I can't tell what it is
[02:52:32] <famoldin> ummm
[02:52:45] <SWPadnos> it doesn't matter
[02:52:51] <famoldin> ok
[02:52:58] <SWPadnos> well, not yet anyway
[02:53:14] <famoldin> wait a minute
[02:53:21] <SWPadnos> there are several ways that the charge pump can be set up, and stepconf may not do it the way you want
[02:53:35] <famoldin> ok
[02:53:49] <famoldin> in ubuntu i tryed
[02:54:10] <famoldin> add some lines in custom.hal
[02:54:43] <famoldin> loadrt charge_pump
[02:54:52] <famoldin> net charge-pump <= charge.pump-out
[02:55:00] <famoldin> addf charge-pump base-thread
[02:55:07] <famoldin> net charge-pump => parport.0.pin-xx-out
[02:55:17] <famoldin> and its just move the Z
[02:57:11] <famoldin> but i want to run it in xubuntu or it is impossible, i can use use ubuntu
[02:58:00] <SWPadnos> xubuntu vs. "regular" ubuntu doesn't matter to the charge pump
[03:18:01] <famoldin> ok
[03:18:31] <famoldin> waht is your cnc system?
[03:18:42] <famoldin> your hardware configuracion
[03:18:51] <famoldin> configuration*
[03:22:21] <famoldin> ???
[03:23:02] <SWPadnos> I don't have a system operating at the moment
[03:23:23] <SWPadnos> the two systems I will build will not use steppers on the parallel port
[03:23:40] <SWPadnos> (I have mesa and pico systems hardware, and servos)
[03:25:21] <ilya_> SWPadnos: what port will they use?
[03:25:37] <ilya_> SWPadnos: a CI card?
[03:25:40] <SWPadnos> PCI for the mesa cards, and parallel communications for hte pico systems
[03:25:42] <ilya_> *PCI
[03:25:57] <SWPadnos> I may not use the Pico board - I have several MEsa cards and they're a lot more flexible
[03:26:32] <ilya_> MESA and PICO are brands?
[03:26:42] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:26:58] <SWPadnos> the EMC wiki and website have lists of some supported hardware
[03:27:05] <famoldin> my interface is connect by the parallel port and rutex drivers are connect to the interface
[03:27:24] <ilya_> i'm reading --enable-build-documentation these days
[03:27:55] <SWPadnos> famoldin, you can check to see whether the charge pump is operating by using halscope
[03:28:06] <ilya_> SWPadnos: is it normal to redraw sketches to get proper tool diameter compensation?
[03:28:29] <SWPadnos> you can see whether the parallel port output is working by using a real scope, or by setting pin 17 high or low using HAL, and checking with a multimeter
[03:28:35] <ilya_> i mean reversed lines and arcs
[03:28:48] <SWPadnos> ilya_, I don't know what you mean by "reversed lines and arcs"
[03:28:54] <famoldin> i will see it
[03:29:00] <ilya_> i wish i know how to use the multimeter
[03:29:01] <famoldin> right now
[03:29:08] <SWPadnos> many people will use a CAM program to output an offset path, which al.ready takes into account teh expected cutter diameter
[03:29:29] <SWPadnos> this will of course fail if you don't have a cutter with exactly that diameter
[03:30:08] <SWPadnos> you can also enable cutter compensation in EMC2, which says whether the G-code path is supposed to be the left or right side of the cutter
[03:30:10] <ilya_> SWPadnos: line 0,0 to 10,0 will be compenstaed at left, i need at right, so i have to create another sketch upon this one.
[03:30:23] <SWPadnos> or you can use G41/G42
[03:30:37] <SWPadnos> to tell EMC to put the cutter on the left or the right of your path
[03:30:47] <ilya_> SWPadnos: for me, it is QCad -> HeeksCNC or DXF2GCODE -> EMC2
[03:30:49] <SWPadnos> instead of the middle, which is the default
[03:31:09] <ilya_> SWPadnos: i don't know yet how to use G commands
[03:31:11] <SWPadnos> I don't have any expeerience with any of those programs
[03:32:11] <famoldin> emc have a quick G codes guide
[03:32:22] <ilya_> i was asked to be able to prepare a drawing for milling, for example tp redraw entities to be milled at left side
[03:33:04] <ilya_> SWPadnos: Wich CAM programs have you ever heard about?
[03:33:19] <SWPadnos> I've heard of the ones you mentioned, but never used them
[03:33:26] <SWPadnos> actually I've never really used any of them :)
[03:33:29] <famoldin> ilya are looking for CAD/CAM softwares?
[03:33:42] <SWPadnos> there's a wiki page on various CAM optios
[03:33:44] <SWPadnos> options
[03:33:52] <ilya_> famoldin: FOSS or freeware Linux/Windows
[03:34:15] <ilya_> SWPadnos: i'm learning it right now
[03:34:29] <SWPadnos> I have to go to bed now. famoldin, it sounds like you have tried the right stuff for the charge pump. just keep plugging away at it and come back with any questions
[03:34:45] <famoldin> i don´t have any freeware in my mind now, but yo
[03:34:48] <ilya_> SWPadnos: so, you actually build machines for someone and don't use them?
[03:34:58] <famoldin> you can use mastercam
[03:35:14] <ilya_> ok
[03:35:18] <famoldin> see you SWpadnos
[03:35:30] <ilya_> see you again!
[03:35:44] <SWPadnos> you should be able to modify a stepconf-generated charge pump setup in the custom.hal file by disconnecting the charge-pump.enable pin from whatever it was connected to, and connecting it to the xenable signall
[03:35:46] <SWPadnos> see yo
[03:35:48] <SWPadnos> u
[03:36:00] <famoldin> okz
[03:36:15] <ilya_> it's morning right here, and it's nice morning, so tomorrow, at future, it will be a nice morning.
[03:36:43] <SWPadnos> (that's "unlinkp charge-pump.enable" then "net xenable charge-pump.enable") :)
[04:53:22] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Hey, Is the standard residential mains in Canada 120VAC or 220VAC?
[05:10:08] <LawrenceG> same as you.. 120, but 240 for stoves, driers, hot water tanks, and split plugs in kitchen
[05:10:35] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Ok, exactly the same here
[05:10:45] <Jymmm> I wonder abot mexico
[05:11:06] <Jymmm> I think it is, I'll ask a friend, he has family in Mexico
[05:11:09] <LawrenceG> I like most of my workshop on 240.... people dont borrow tools wired for 240
[05:11:28] <Jymmm> What hand tools do you have that are 220?
[05:12:01] <Jymmm> I could see a compressor/welder, but that's about it.
[05:12:36] <LawrenceG> things like air compressor, table saw, mill/drill, radial arm saw, welder, dry wall heater
[05:12:45] <Jymmm> ah
[05:13:20] <Jymmm> I dont loan tools anyway, at least not wihtout a cash deposit starting at $20 ad gong up from there.
[05:13:39] <Jymmm> screwdriver $20, pliers $40,
[05:13:46] <Jymmm> wrench $100
[05:14:09] <Jymmm> and $50/socket
[05:14:14] <LawrenceG> yea... everyone I have lent out got trashed... not sure how that happens, but it always seems to be my tools that fall off the roof!
[05:14:25] <Jymmm> GUARNTEED to get em back.
[05:15:24] <LawrenceG> oh... shack has the linear amp on 240
[05:15:45] <Jymmm> Good for tube amps
[05:16:00] <Jymmm> and winter heating via the amp too
[05:16:12] <LawrenceG> have you seen the pix of cradek's new mill?
[05:16:17] <Jymmm> no
[05:16:53] <LawrenceG> there was a link earlier today... maybe on devel... it looks cool.... a nice tool changer
[05:19:31] <Jymmm> nuttin on his website
[05:20:31] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Did you see my new toy?
[05:20:59] <LawrenceG> toys!
[05:21:20] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Picked it up for $50 http://www.cidesign.com/product_detail.jsp?productID=60&region=us
[05:21:21] <LawrenceG> you didnt tell me you were expecting
[05:21:43] <Jymmm> came with a slim dvd-rw too
[05:21:56] <Jymmm> expecting?
[05:22:42] <LawrenceG> ah yes.. the 2u rack puter....
[05:22:59] <Jymmm> No, just 2U Enclosure
[05:23:26] <Jymmm> I used a mobo/cpu/ram I already had
[05:23:31] <LawrenceG> ok
[05:23:52] <Jymmm> Going to hold off on buying a 3Ware RAID card for now, it's $400
[05:25:05] <LawrenceG> understandable
[05:26:04] <Jymmm> also waiting for 2TB hdd's to get to the $99 range, then I can setup 10TB RAID5/6 and two hot spares.
[05:27:34] <Jymmm> I need to read up on RAID6 a lil more. I know you can lose 2 hdd's and still have your data, but that usually means parity is doubed so array capacity is less too
[05:29:58] <LawrenceG> I always wanted to play with raid, but I never really needed that much stuff online. Full length pron movies are a waste.... I prefer the 5 minute highlights
[05:35:28] <Jymmm> Well, My intensions are to consolidate everything to a single place. Not on 8 different computers/laptops
[05:35:45] <Jymmm> and just rsync as needed
[05:36:29] <Jymmm> I figure 5TB should about do it, then capacity planning on top of that.
[05:37:38] <LawrenceG> cool
[05:38:43] <Jymmm> It would be nice to not even think about losing any data due to a failure
[07:08:23] <ilya1> ilya1 is now known as ilya_
[08:29:24] <roh> jepler hi. i got a machine with estop-in and charge-pump. can i test your patch also with a release-emc ?
[08:31:49] <roh> ah.. forget it.. its against stepconf.. will modify the hal config accordingly and report back
[08:31:54] <alex_joni> roh: you only need to test the hal config change
[08:32:37] <roh> just realised that.. still to early in the morning for me it seems ;)
[08:34:59] <alex_joni> ;)
[09:23:58] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[14:14:04] <archivist> wee, 5axis means cnc helical knurl
[14:36:33] <DaViruz> hmm, picked up new bearings for the servo today, but the new ones felt a lot sloppier than the old ones..
[14:36:47] <DaViruz> still, they ware FAG bearings so i would expect them to be of decent quality
[14:40:10] <archivist> fits vary
[14:40:24] <archivist> they are selectable
[14:41:11] <DaViruz> i thought as much, but how do i tell what it's supposed to be?
[14:42:06] <archivist> some are selected for a press fit so are loose, some for sliding fit have less space in the bearing
[14:42:38] <archivist> full part number and makers specs
[14:45:55] <DaViruz> the only markings on the bearing are KOYO JAPAN 6204Z
[14:46:01] <DaViruz> and 6001Z for the rear bearing
[14:46:02] <kanzure> http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/screw/data.yaml
[14:46:07] <kanzure> is this enough information for figuring out screw fits?
[14:46:16] <DaViruz> they are press fitted on the shaft, and have a sliding fit in the end plates of the servo
[14:46:38] <kanzure> * kanzure is writing some mating software today
[14:47:03] <kanzure> sorry for the randomness. please excuse me.
[14:50:26] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[14:50:45] <archivist> DaViruz, iirc thats the standard, the inner expands a bit when pressed in
[14:50:59] <archivist> in/on
[14:54:37] <DaViruz> i am tempted to use the old bearings, they have a much nicer feel to them, and i can detect nothing wrong with them. and i think i've found the real source of the noise. the preload o the bearings is set with a spring washer that presses on the outer race of the rear bearing, and it is then locked by glueing the outer race to rear end plate (presumably with a relatively slow curing glue so there's time to assemble it)
[14:55:24] <DaViruz> so when the servo landed on the shaft the glue broke which created excessive axial play
[14:58:35] <eric_unterhausen> glue shouldn't be holding anything?
[14:59:06] <DaViruz> but it most definitely was
[15:04:51] <geo01005> some people use locktite to hold a bearing in place.
[15:06:20] <geo01005> but that is more to make up for not meeting the tolerances for a bearing fit, I wouldn't expect it to be done on a mass produced part.
[15:07:54] <geo01005> something like this: http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID-0AC8330A-7A4500B3/henkel_us/hs.xsl/product-search-1554.htm?iname=Loctite%C2%AE+609%E2%84%A2+Retaining+Compound&countryCode=us&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=0000000GHE&redDotUID=0000000HWO
[15:08:03] <geo01005> sorry for the long url.
[15:08:49] <DaViruz> i was surprised to see it myself. but there's even a groove in the surface the outer race sits in,which i assume is to hold the glue
[15:09:49] <DaViruz> i've never disassembled a servo of this calibre before so i'm not sure if it's common..
[15:12:15] <geo01005> So there is somthing else that holds the bearing axially right?
[15:12:20] <geo01005> something...
[15:12:45] <DaViruz> a spring washer
[15:12:57] <DaViruz> which is pretty light
[15:14:22] <DaViruz> the data sheet for the servo states that the encoder will be damaged if more then 150N of axial force is applied on the shaft, perhaps this is maximum the glue can hold, and after that it will move backwards and load the encoder?
[15:19:29] <Valen> hmm, question wrt preload
[15:20:19] <Valen> is it ok to have a preload set by screw or should it be done by a spring to take expansion etc into account with temperature
[15:20:39] <geo01005> axial or radial?
[15:20:53] <Valen> axial i guess
[15:21:03] <Valen> its the mount for a ballscrew
[15:21:53] <DaViruz> ballscrew thrust bearings usually have pretty rigid preload
[15:22:03] <DaViruz> have a look at http://www.5bears.com/cnc04.htm
[15:22:05] <geo01005> well your ballscrew is a very high spring constant axial spring :)
[15:46:27] <skunkworks> well - finally bought 3 garage door openers today.
[15:48:23] <Jymmm> ...and one small diet coke?
[15:52:28] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Now, you just need to buy a garage for each of them =)
[16:13:18] <alex_joni> Jymmm: he built one with 3 doors already
[16:13:59] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I know
[16:14:05] <bill2or3> instead of a roof, it has a door.
[16:14:11] <bill2or3> also, instead of a floor.
[16:14:23] <alex_joni> right.. how else would you go to the cellar
[16:14:38] <Jymmm> thru the basement on the 4th floor
[16:26:40] <skunkworks> they where on sale
[16:27:10] <skunkworks> chamberlin and worked with 8ft doors without an extra $40 dollar extention kit.
[17:01:26] <Jymmm> skunkworks: You know you wanted to pay $40 for a $2 chunk of metal
[17:03:49] <skunkworks> right
[20:06:04] <skunkworks> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135683/Microsoft_stuns_Linux_world_submits_source_code_for_kernel?taxonomyId=18&pageNumber=2
[20:06:24] <skunkworks> sorry
[20:06:25] <skunkworks> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135683/Microsoft_stuns_Linux_world_submits_source_code_for_kernel?taxonomyId=18&pageNumber=1
[20:14:03] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86610
[20:23:11] <cradek> "The Galil cards run from anywhere from $1,500.00 to $3,500.00"
[20:23:15] <cradek> wow.
[20:23:34] <archivist> arm and six legs
[20:24:41] <skunkworks> but then you can use the fancy mach gui :)
[20:24:45] <geo01005> that is without and servo amps too :)
[20:30:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Tyan S2865 Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 170 (2009MHz)
[21:39:05] <Hugomatic> Hello. I'm trying to setup a machine (emco pcmill 30), and I get a "joint 2 on limiit error". What kind of problem should I be looking for?
[21:41:05] <frallzor> trying to move an axis over its limit?
[21:42:31] <Hugomatic> Could be. My own machine doesn't have limit switches so I'm a bit confused
[21:43:04] <f^x> does that message happen when you hit a soft limit, a hard limit, or both?
[21:43:11] <f^x> (i'm working on the same machine :)
[21:43:28] <jepler> make sure you didn't configure limit switch inputs
[21:43:41] <jepler> if there are limit switch inputs without switches attached, it's even odds whether emc will think you're on the switch or not
[21:44:07] <f^x> no, this does have limit switches installed
[21:44:12] <f^x> one on each axis
[21:44:58] <Hugomatic> We set pins 10 to 13 to "both limit switch and home" for x y z and a axis
[21:45:19] <f^x> no, "maximum and home"
[21:45:58] <Hugomatic> sorry... my mistake. Can we use the halscope to see what's happening?
[21:46:42] <jepler> probably you can use halmeter to see that axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in is TRUE
[21:46:55] <Hugomatic> OK...
[21:46:56] <jepler> if you don't have limit switches, then configuring a parport pin as a limit input is not right
[21:47:02] <jepler> set that input to "unused"
[21:47:40] <Xteven> hi
[21:47:45] <Xteven> I have a practical question
[21:47:56] <f^x> no, we do in fact have limit switches
[21:48:16] <Xteven> suppose I want to cut out a circle from a square sheet, how do I attach the sheet to the CNC machine ?
[21:48:19] <f^x> or rather, home switches
[21:48:34] <Jymmm> duct tape
[21:48:47] <archivist> vacuum
[21:48:51] <Xteven> hmm
[21:48:54] <SWPadnos> check )or uncheck) the "invert input" checkbox in the I/O setup
[21:49:01] <SWPadnos> (assuming you're using stepconf)
[21:49:01] <Xteven> duct tape might work, double sided
[21:49:06] <bill2or3> bolts in the corners?
[21:49:07] <f^x> X is 10, Y is 11, Z is 12 and the estop is 13
[21:49:12] <Jymmm> I'm kidding
[21:49:13] <Xteven> is vacuum strong enough ?
[21:49:13] <f^x> SWPadnos: good idea
[21:49:15] <Hugomatic> axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in is FALSE
[21:49:28] <SWPadnos> axis.2 is Z
[21:49:29] <Hugomatic> I'll invert the inputs...
[21:49:33] <SWPadnos> they start at 0
[21:49:34] <Jymmm> Xteven: On sheet material -absolutely
[21:49:40] <Xteven> bill2or3: that would fix the border of the sheet, but not the circle inside it
[21:49:52] <Xteven> cool
[21:51:08] <Hugomatic> Now I get a joint 0 and 1 limit error... I'll check the pins # again
[21:53:47] <bill2or3> oh yeah, I guess that'd work until you actually started cutting thru..
[21:55:22] <Hugomatic> thanks for the help jepler. We're going to try a few things
[21:56:30] <jepler> bbl, I want to get out of the office
[21:58:51] <f^x> is there some way to temporarily disable limit checking so you can back off a limit switch?
[21:59:04] <f^x> or is there some other way you should get off a limit switch if you hit it
[22:00:19] <SWPadnos> there's an "ignore limits" override, which will let you jog away from any closed limit(s)
[22:00:30] <SWPadnos> I don't recall where it is
[22:04:46] <Hugomatic> Thanks... we have set the limit switches to be the home switches, and it seems to work... except our 0,0,0 is actually the max,max,max. Thanks for all the help :-)
[22:05:05] <SWPadnos> sure
[22:05:44] <SWPadnos> I don't know if you did this, but you can set a "home offset" and "home position", which tell EMC2 (a) where the switch actually is and (b) where you want the machine to go after homing
[22:06:22] <SWPadnos> (though I don't know I got them in the right order :) )
[22:07:20] <Hugomatic> Sounds like what we want...
[22:09:37] <Hugomatic> I think I see it in the stepconf wizard: "Home switch location"
[22:12:19] <Hugomatic> When we set those values, the head keeps trying to go past the switch
[22:42:56] <Jymmm> Does anyone know anything about FreeBSD ?
[22:44:09] <bill2or3> I know it's for users who are smarter than linux users, but not quite as annoying as openbsd users. :-)
[22:44:27] <Jymmm> well, DUH ;)
[22:44:50] <Jymmm> Seems I cant find the fdd