#emc | Logs for 2009-07-11

[00:02:53] <L84Supper> there is something funny about how the dots all ended up square on the Mona Lisa
[00:05:06] <L84Supper> AMD just released all the open docs for 790/780/740 and sb700/710, look for 1 second boot for AMD mainboards! Instant-on for machine controls and UI
[00:13:40] <cradek> my mill goes from power on to user interface up and active in 5 seconds
[00:14:08] <cradek> but of course it's 1983 technology
[00:20:11] <turkshead> turkshead is now known as rubins_ass
[00:20:46] <rubins_ass> rubins_ass is now known as rubins
[00:20:53] <rubins> rubins is now known as rubins-ass
[00:34:45] <rubins-ass> rubins-ass is now known as turkshead
[00:59:51] <jimlas53> Can anyone advise what changes can be made to shutdown scripts to get PC powerdown to complete?
[01:30:32] <jmkasunich> jimlas53: if you are running a realtime kernel, the answer is probably "you can't do that"
[01:31:01] <jmkasunich> the functionality that lets a PC turn off its own power supply tends to cause problems with realtime, so it is usually disabled in a realtime kernel
[01:31:36] <jimlas53> I thougt I saw an exchange on the users list and a comment regarding the shutdown scripts.
[01:33:10] <jmkasunich> then try whatever that message suggested
[01:34:17] <jmkasunich> I would be a little surprised if it works, but it wouldn't be the first time I've had outdated info
[01:36:19] <jimlas53> I don't recall the exact discussion, and anything older than about 47 hours fades fast in my memory, but I though the suggestion was regarding the scripts that are executed during linux shutdown.
[01:37:35] <jmkasunich> search here: http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/ (list archives)
[01:41:02] <jimlas53> I think this is what I saw: 2008/09/15 Hi, As far as the shutdown procedure goes, can one find the shutdown script and add force load APM or ACPI so the PC will shut it's self off. The theory being that if you load that stuff just before you are shutting the machine off you don't really care about latency issues anymore -- Organic Engines
[01:41:20] <jmkasunich> ah
[01:41:22] <jmkasunich> in theory that works
[01:41:44] <jmkasunich> but that is far from a step-by-step solution - it assumes you are pretty linux proficient
[01:42:19] <jmkasunich> I've been using linux for about 6 years now, but it would probably take me quite a while to figure that out
[01:42:38] <jmkasunich> I just stick with turning the machine off manually
[01:44:11] <Sordna> could always use an unused i/o pin on a parallel port and tie it to the power switch connector through a transistor and resistor and have something in the shutdown script turn that pin on which would trigger the transistor to short the power switch pins together, thus shutting off the machine.
[01:44:21] <jmkasunich> is auto-power-down of the PC particularly important to you for some reason?
[01:44:23] <Sordna> but that's a rather inelegant solution.
[01:45:29] <jmkasunich> on any real machine, you are going to have stepper or servo motor power supplies, etc, that need turned off too - the PC's internal power-down can't do that
[01:47:01] <jimlas53> Right, I wait until I think the hard drive has parked, then hold down the power button until the PC shuts off. I would prefer that the PC shut itself off so I don't have to stand around waiting on it and wondering if it's done. Probably just me, but what can I say? <smile!>
[01:47:25] <jmkasunich> doesn't the screen tell you when everything is done?
[01:47:43] <jimlas53> No, no prompts or messages
[01:48:00] <jmkasunich> my PC's print a bunch of stuff in text mode during shutdown, the last message is usually "Power down"
[01:48:19] <jimlas53> This is LiveCD installed, no changes to the base install
[01:48:48] <jmkasunich> more recent versions of Ubuntu, etc tend to try to hide that stuff (trying to make it newbie friendly I think)
[01:49:26] <jmkasunich> I know that stuff (I think it may be called "bootsplash" can be turned off so you see the messages - I usually figure out how when I do a new install, then forget how I did it
[01:50:23] <jimlas53> Yeah, I've been using Linux since 2003, and I've probably configured to do away with the usplash, but who can remember all that if you don't do it but once or twice?
[01:50:51] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:51:14] <jmkasunich> if you already have a plan for turning off the stepper/servo power, then I guess it would be nice to turn off the PC too
[01:51:53] <jmkasunich> on my machine, I have a master disconnect switch that kills all power, including the PC
[01:52:11] <jmkasunich> so I tell linux to shut down, then when the screen says it is done, turn the big switch
[01:52:55] <jmkasunich> that one switch kills spindle power, stepper power, and the PC, so it makes the machine completely dead and safe to work on
[01:53:13] <jimlas53> I use Gecko and HobbyCNC controllers, all of them are stand-alone and controlled separately. I turn off the stepper box before anything else, and it is the last thing to get powered on.
[01:55:14] <jimlas53> Do you think the suggestion would work? Loading the ACPI then shutting down?
[01:56:03] <jmkasunich> it seems reasonable to me, but I really have no idea
[01:56:46] <jmkasunich> if I was going to try to make it work, I'd probably start by fetching and installing one of the stock ubuntu kernels (and modifying the grub menu so I can boot either one)
[01:57:19] <jmkasunich> make sure the regular kernel can turn things off, then look at the modules that is loads, and write a script to load the same ones under the RT kernel
[01:58:45] <jmkasunich> it will probably take a while to figure it out, but when you do you'll know more about linux power management than 95% of users ;-)
[01:59:26] <jimlas53> I have one of the computers set up to dual-boot so I can do that. Or, I can just force the system to text mode at shutdown, and I'm done!
[02:01:30] <jmkasunich> I'm pretty sure that you get text mode at startup by putting "#defoptions nosplash" in your grub menu.lst
[02:01:39] <jmkasunich> plus put nosplash on each kernel line
[02:01:56] <jmkasunich> (that's what I have on this box)
[02:02:56] <jimlas53> Yeah, that sounds right. I'll do it.
[02:03:04] <jmkasunich> to be honest, I have no idea if this one goes in text mode at shutdown - its a server, so I never turn it off
[02:04:24] <jmkasunich> good luck - gotta go...
[02:04:41] <jimlas53> Thanks John!
[10:37:34] <Guest107> hello
[16:34:17] <frallzor> http://pastebin.com/m340c866c Row 13; D31
[16:34:19] <frallzor> what is this
[16:34:26] <frallzor> and why doesnt emc like it
[16:40:53] <archivist> the is no dxx in http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sub:G43,-G49:-Tool
[16:41:49] <archivist> fix or use the correct post processor
[16:57:32] <frallzor> im using a generic fanuc im trying to config
[16:57:45] <frallzor> but need to know what D generally is to fix =)
[17:00:49] <archivist> in emc it does not exist, probably diameter
[17:01:15] <frallzor> the issue is that the part doesnt have any diameter of 31
[17:01:20] <frallzor> or any tool or anything
[17:01:31] <archivist> note diameter is set with a different gcode
[17:01:57] <archivist> g43 is a tool setting gcode
[17:02:44] <frallzor> are you good at PP? =P
[19:43:57] <Goslowjimbo> http://pastebin.com/m3c323643
[19:44:25] <Goslowjimbo> This is my hal configuration, the ini and both hal files.
[19:45:45] <Goslowjimbo> I am trying to get the spi component to function (ispi). So far, I haven't been successful.
[19:48:26] <Goslowjimbo> http://pastebin.com/m21cc4014 This is the ispi component.
[19:49:35] <Goslowjimbo> I guess I'm pretty clueless as to what the problem is. I've checked the I/O port for control by reverting back to a previous hal file.
[19:50:30] <SWPadnos> do you have a scope so you can check the SPI output pin?
[19:50:36] <Goslowjimbo> I could exercise each pin and watch it change state. I've moved the addf function around in the hal file to see if I had a wrong order.
[19:51:23] <Goslowjimbo> Yes. I haven't had anything other than greater than 3 volts on the scope.
[19:51:40] <SWPadnos> it's transitions I'd be looking for, not necessarily voltage
[19:52:17] <Goslowjimbo> Right, I'm saying there are no transitions, even on the clock.
[19:52:40] <SWPadnos> incidentally, I'd make the iteration variable into a parameter (or copy it to a parameter) so you can see what state ispi thinks it's in
[19:53:15] <Goslowjimbo> I'll do that.
[19:53:24] <SWPadnos> also, have you tried doing these outputs by hand?
[19:53:57] <SWPadnos> you should be able to setp the write_address and write_data, then setp strobe to 1 to do a write
[19:54:23] <SWPadnos> and if you have a halmeter on the read_data pin, you should see whatever is read backm
[19:55:34] <SWPadnos> -m
[19:55:40] <Goslowjimbo> How would I do it by hand? Do you mean exercizing the Input pins?
[19:55:48] <SWPadnos> no
[19:55:53] <SWPadnos> I mean writing to SPI by hand
[19:56:09] <SWPadnos> you can do all of the things your component will need to do by using setp
[19:56:37] <Goslowjimbo> No I haven't done that.
[19:56:41] <SWPadnos> setp hm2...write_addr blah ; setp hm2...write_data blooey ; setp hm2...write_strobe 1
[19:56:55] <Goslowjimbo> gotcha
[19:57:11] <SWPadnos> mess with the setup that way to make sure you're doing what you need done
[19:57:37] <Goslowjimbo> But doesn't that setting of the address and data and strobe have to happen in one cycle?
[19:57:43] <SWPadnos> you could make a very simple bash script that takes an address and data value and does those three "setp"s
[19:57:46] <SWPadnos> no
[19:57:57] <SWPadnos> address and data need to be valid when you do the strobe
[19:58:00] <SWPadnos> that's all
[19:58:10] <Goslowjimbo> OK, I was laboring under a wrong impression.
[19:58:20] <SWPadnos> wrong impressions cause a lot of labor :)
[19:58:43] <Goslowjimbo> and headaches and grief....
[20:00:33] <Goslowjimbo> Don't know much about Linux, I'll study the bash scripts thing.
[20:00:57] <SWPadnos> oh. it's a simple script with the 3 lines I mentioned above
[20:01:00] <SWPadnos> one sec
[20:02:46] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.com/m47f84762
[20:02:54] <SWPadnos> hopefully I didn't mis-spell anything
[20:03:34] <SWPadnos> copy that somewhere, chmod +x <whatever_you_called_it>, and then run it like <whatever_you_called_it> address data
[20:04:10] <SWPadnos> you may have to use decimal numbers rather than hex, but I'm not sure (don't recall what halcmd can handle)
[20:04:47] <Goslowjimbo> Thanks. I'll try it right now. The barn is a few miles away, I'll let you know how it goes.
[20:05:15] <SWPadnos> ok. I'll be out for the evening (starting not too long from now), but feel free to report back anyway :)
[20:05:40] <SWPadnos> note that you may need quotes around the numbers if you want to use hex (if halcmd supports that)
[20:05:57] <Goslowjimbo> Have a nice night, then. I'll try the quotes.
[20:06:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[20:06:10] <SWPadnos> shouldn't be necessary, come to think of it
[20:06:17] <SWPadnos> this isn't Pascal after all :)
[20:06:18] <SWPadnos> thanks
[20:10:15] <Goslowjimbo> bye
[20:13:03] <frallzor> weey seems like ill be getting my last parts for the mill on le monday =)
[20:25:01] <Jymmm> WooHoo Delphi
[20:25:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Oh, you said this is NOT pascal, my bad
[20:29:08] <jepler> whee -- second servo wired, one to go
[20:29:46] <Jymmm> jepler: Whatcha wiring?
[20:30:03] <jepler> Jymmm: these little (~30W) servo motors for my circuit board mill
[20:30:20] <Jymmm> jepler: oh, got pics of the mill?
[20:31:31] <jepler> Jymmm: jas
[20:33:22] <jepler> pictures of the new servo mount on the Y axis: http://emergent.unpy.net/01245634880 all my blog posts about zenbot: http://emergent.unpy.net/_tags/zenbot
[20:33:49] <jepler> bbl, time to do the third set of wires
[20:47:19] <Jymmm> jepler: Wow, the spindle vs dremel runout is huge
[20:47:42] <Jymmm> jepler: Would have been nice ref had there been a rule placed next to it.
[21:02:32] <jepler> whee, 3 spinning motors
[21:02:54] <Jymmm> woohoo
[21:07:59] <frallzor> wooh "cheap" acrylic from ebay :P
[21:19:43] <jepler> the servo motors keep going an uncomfortable number of seconds after turning off the incoming AC power
[21:19:54] <jepler> this power supply must have a substantial cap in it
[21:20:06] <Jymmm> dump resistor?
[21:20:40] <jepler> might help
[21:20:56] <Jymmm> is there a disable?
[21:21:13] <Jymmm> in whatever driver you're using
[21:21:42] <jepler> there's a software controlled disable
[21:22:43] <Jymmm> maybe wire that to the PS somehow
[21:23:33] <Jymmm> betweena couple of pull up/down resisters
[21:25:10] <Jymmm> jepler: You using a linear or switching PS?
[21:25:20] <jepler> switching
[21:25:45] <Jymmm> dont happen to have a 120VAC relay do ya?
[21:25:54] <Jymmm> (coil)
[21:26:08] <jepler> that's just the thing -- I am cutting the 120VAC
[21:26:16] <jepler> but the DC bus stays high enough to move the motors for several seconds
[21:26:42] <Jymmm> jepler: Right, wire the relay to the 120 side, when power is cut, have the relay engage a dump resistpr
[21:26:56] <Jymmm> on the DC side
[21:27:03] <jepler> oh, i see
[21:27:14] <Jymmm> cheap hack
[21:28:33] <Jymmm> or wire up a large resistor to ground on the DC side so it dumps quicker.
[21:29:34] <Jymmm> maybe play with 100K and go from there. Not too much load while running.
[21:39:35] <SWPadnos> jepler, is this the 24V power supply I sold you?
[21:40:38] <jepler> SWPadnos: no, it's another one
[21:40:42] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:40:57] <SWPadnos> still a 24V switcher though?
[21:41:36] <jepler> yes
[21:42:30] <SWPadnos> ok. this one seems to have about 1000 uF caps on the output
[21:42:39] <SWPadnos> err - 1000 uF total that is
[21:43:08] <jepler> whee, 3axes turning with feedback
[21:43:09] <jepler> tuning can wait
[21:43:29] <SWPadnos> cool
[21:44:02] <Jymmm> jepler: Now to take over the world!!!
[21:44:11] <jepler> that'll have to wait even longer
[21:45:23] <Jymmm> Well, I think if I was offered the ability to take over the world, I'd say "No thanks", but I'll take an Island or two.
[21:45:27] <jepler> I should figure my home switch wiring next
[21:47:02] <Jymmm> I should be re-mounting the rails on the 4U box, but that thing is heavy and not a lot of room to maneuver it around - such a pita.
[21:47:58] <Jymmm> oh screw it... If I get it done I can mount the rest once I get more rack screws.
[21:50:51] <jepler> speaking of "oh screw it", faced with the prospect of writing the hal and doing the tuning for it, I think I lost the urge to try dual loop PID
[21:54:07] <skunkworks> Nooooooooo
[21:54:08] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:54:20] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is in the middle of catfish days.
[22:08:43] <Jymmm> SOB... of course what I had it set for before was as close as it's going to get.
[22:17:58] <jepler> just for skunkworks I decided not to give up
[22:28:29] <cradek> jepler: cool!
[22:32:26] <frallzor> btw guys, what ya all using as chassis for the electronics?
[22:32:55] <Jymmm> duct taped shoe box
[22:33:10] <frallzor> haha really? =)
[22:34:53] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[22:34:56] <Jymmm> I guess it all depends on the budget
[22:35:22] <frallzor> I dont even have a bloody shoebox atm =)
[22:35:46] <Jymmm> well, maybe a gutted PC case - those are free
[22:36:10] <frallzor> the one I have is too gutted
[22:36:21] <frallzor> better no case at all than this =P
[22:36:24] <toastydeath> is dried blood conductive?
[22:36:30] <Jymmm> dumpster dive
[22:37:03] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Let's see... it has iron and sodium. maybe
[22:37:42] <frallzor> most dumpsters here is at the local dump and they kill you for taking stuff
[22:37:46] <toastydeath> next time i cut myself at work i'll smudge it on paper and get the voltmeter out after it dries
[22:37:46] <frallzor> kind of =)
[22:38:03] <Jymmm> frallzor: where's 'here'?
[22:38:25] <frallzor> small town in S Sweden
[22:41:02] <Jymmm> frallzor: Well, order a pizza, and shove the guts of the computer you're using in the pizza box, then you have a new case you can gut =)
[22:41:43] <Jymmm> http://media.techeblog.com/images/hotready_1.jpg
[22:44:51] <frallzor> well the case IS empty
[22:44:59] <frallzor> but is far from suitable =)
[22:57:05] <pilotltd> Hi guys can one of you electronics whizzes cast your eye on this and tell me if it's OK. Problem is I need more volts on Z axis driver only (different make to X&Y) Z will take 80V X & Y only 50V. http://imagebin.ca/view/YWYe5PMv.html
[23:01:26] <Jymmm> I see 18VAC to Z there
[23:01:40] <Jymmm> oh wait, missed the tap
[23:02:33] <Jymmm> nope, still 18VAC =)
[23:03:20] <pilotltd> How can I get 30 and 48VAC ?
[23:03:33] <pilotltd> There is a 20V tap
[23:03:39] <pilotltd> sorry 30V
[23:07:51] <Jymmm> ok, XY between 0 and 30, and Z between 0 and 48
[23:08:22] <Jymmm> that gets you 30VAC for XY,and 48VAC for Z
[23:09:22] <pilotltd> Dohh - dozy me :)
[23:09:36] <pilotltd> Thanks
[23:09:38] <Jymmm> np
[23:11:21] <pilotltd> Can you see any problem if -ve DC (term 4 on bridge diode) get commoned?
[23:13:35] <Jymmm> *I* personally don't know for sure, but since you're using a linear PS, I'd try it myself.
[23:14:23] <Jymmm> YOu're using two bridges, seems reasonable
[23:15:36] <pilotltd> I'm not doing it intentionally, but don't know if internally in the drives the -ve gets grounded to case or 5V logic ground
[23:16:10] <Jymmm> what drives?
[23:16:27] <pilotltd> Chinese
[23:16:52] <pilotltd> Baged Leadshine I beleive
[23:16:59] <pilotltd> badged
[23:17:00] <Jymmm> no clue =)
[23:17:08] <pilotltd> me neither
[23:17:49] <Jymmm> If you let out the magic smoke, you'll know for sure =)
[23:19:31] <pilotltd> Not mine unfortunately and they are 90UKP (150$) each
[23:21:02] <cradek> that design is wrong. you need a common ground.
[23:21:18] <cradek> (unless your drives have totally isolated inputs, I guess)
[23:24:50] <pilotltd> What about http://imagebin.ca/view/2PsPaQ1.html
[23:25:32] <cradek> still no
[23:26:21] <cradek> (I think)
[23:29:36] <cradek> change your voltage markings to 0 (on top), -18, and -48 to see why
[23:29:47] <cradek> with those bridges you lose your common ground, no matter which way you wire it
[23:30:10] <cradek> you need entirely separate transformer taps (or transformers), and then you can wire the grounds together however you like.
[23:30:13] <LawrenceG> looks like a smoke show waiting to happen when the 2 terminal 4's are connected to each other.... wire it up and try a 12 light bulb between the 2 terminal 4's
[23:30:24] <cradek> right
[23:31:02] <LawrenceG> light means future smoke!
[23:31:05] <cradek> if you can get by with half wave rectification (one diode each) it will work.
[23:31:15] <cradek> but either way, this is not a very good design.
[23:33:04] <pilotltd> Actually - it's not a tap - it's two seperate windings, that make any difference?
[23:33:14] <cradek> you bet it does
[23:33:36] <cradek> um, draw what you really have :-)
[23:33:50] <pilotltd> Hang on a mo
[23:43:28] <pilotltd> http://imagebin.ca/view/KLz97jC.html
[23:44:45] <cradek> if t1/t2 and t3/t4 are totally disconnected from one another, you're fine
[23:47:43] <pilotltd> I still need 30 and 48V, if I join t2 and t3 - back to before isn't it?
[23:48:58] <cradek> you'll get approximately 25,42 after rectification
[23:49:09] <cradek> what voltages do you need?
[23:49:23] <pilotltd> Could I rectify the 30VAC and the 18VAC then join the resulting DC?
[23:49:37] <cradek> you need 42, 42+25?
[23:50:11] <cradek> yes you can stack the DCs one atop the other, as long as the transformer windings are independent (verify with ohmmeter)
[23:51:31] <pilotltd> I need 42 & 67 approx
[23:51:46] <cradek> ok
[23:51:55] <cradek> draw us a new one to check then :-)
[23:52:02] <pilotltd> OK