#emc | Logs for 2009-07-07

[00:01:22] <skunkworks> got my servos.. Cute!
[00:01:36] <eric_unterhausen> what servos?
[00:02:46] <skunkworks> http://emergent.unpy.net/01245634880
[00:03:13] <skunkworks> part of my circuit board mill project
[00:03:27] <skunkworks> * skunkworks need to go back to mounting garage doors.
[00:03:28] <skunkworks> bbl
[00:07:08] <DaViruz> nice little servos
[00:07:11] <DaViruz> out of stock :/
[00:44:18] <PCW> SWPadnos: fixed 7I64 manual on Website
[00:44:19] <PCW> also added note about clearing WHB before writes will work (noticed when testing goslowjimbos hardware)
[01:14:28] <Goslowjimbo> PCW: thanks for checking it out. I'm not sure we had the same bit files, though. Mine reported it was looking for a 400K but found a 200K when I left the power off one time.
[01:15:41] <PCW> I hink there are no SPI capable 7I43 bitfiles other than what Ive sent you...
[01:15:56] <Goslowjimbo> That's strange....
[01:16:18] <Goslowjimbo> What is the wpo instruction in the batch file?
[01:16:25] <PCW> And the one i had here reported 200K...
[01:17:38] <PCW> WPO is a command line utility I use to access FPGA cards
[01:17:40] <PCW> (Write with PCI Offset) but in this case it was using EPP
[01:18:12] <Goslowjimbo> I could send you mine, but I think that is a waste of your time. I'll just use the new one and see how it works. Won't get out to the farm tonight. Hopefully tomorrow.
[01:18:47] <PCW> I dont thinks ther are any others, the bad one is dated 6/17/09
[01:19:35] <Goslowjimbo> I'll check on it's properties.
[01:21:15] <Goslowjimbo> It's interesting you only set 3 of the signal lines to alternate source. Doesn't all 4 need to be set?
[01:21:32] <PCW> That may not be exact, but theres a date embedded in the bitfile
[01:21:34] <PCW> not sure if the driver prints that or not
[01:22:29] <Goslowjimbo> I'll check in Dmesg.
[01:22:42] <PCW> only the outputs need alternate source
[01:22:58] <Goslowjimbo> Oh.
[01:23:32] <PCW> also you didnt have the CPOL bit set
[01:23:55] <PCW> (in your component)
[01:25:17] <Goslowjimbo> I misread that I shouldn't set it. I actually tried it both ways, but didn't get any results.
[01:26:36] <PCW> Noted something I'd forgotten about while playing with the 7I64:
[01:26:38] <PCW> you need to clear the WHB bit (at least once) or writes will not work
[01:26:39] <PCW> (CPOL setting is page 12 of the 7I64 manual)
[01:29:22] <Goslowjimbo> I'll get a fresh copy off the net. I don't quite understand the writes after resetting the WHB bit. Is this just to see traffic?
[01:30:57] <PCW> No it means if the watchdog has ever bitten, (always true at startup)
[01:30:59] <PCW> all write will fail (and all outputs will remain off) until WHB is cleared
[01:33:03] <PCW> This was done to force recognition of a watchdog timeout
[01:33:05] <PCW> and avoid a race condition by caused by always clearing the
[01:33:06] <PCW> watchdog on writes
[01:35:58] <Goslowjimbo> What I was alluding to was the 3s and Cs and Fs in the writes. I didn't understand why those were changed from write to write.
[01:36:44] <Goslowjimbo> I sort of, halfway understand the need to check for a cleared WHB.
[01:37:03] <PCW> Oh i was just watch the lights blink
[01:37:13] <PCW> (watching)
[01:38:05] <Goslowjimbo> NOW I understand! I would probably do the same thing. Thanks for your help on this. I really appreciate it.
[01:39:44] <mozmck> PCW: I'm trying to lean an HDL to play with some CPLDs. What is your perspective on VHDL vs Verilog?
[01:40:19] <PCW> No religion here!
[01:40:31] <geo01005_home> Goslowjimbo, sorry I haven't been any help with SIP stuff lately...
[01:41:13] <mozmck> :)
[01:41:31] <Goslowjimbo> geo01005: Hey, no problem. I know how schedules can get.
[01:41:33] <PCW> Actually I suppose Veriog is a little more C like
[01:41:35] <PCW> and VHDL more Pascal (or ADA) like
[01:41:39] <mozmck> Looks like Verilog can be learned a little faster, but VHDL may be more powerful?
[01:42:37] <PCW> Yes VHDL is really kitchen sinkish
[01:43:02] <geo01005_home> Goslowjimbo, did you get it figured out?
[01:43:24] <mozmck> It doesn't look like it would take too long to learn the basics of both, so maybe I'll just do that
[01:43:58] <PCW> Yes play with both and see what you are most comfortable with
[01:45:35] <Goslowjimbo> pcw has, and I'm going to try to implement it tomorrow night. Had 2 bits wrong in the setup, and need to clear the WD before writes. It's going to be more than 4 cycles to get this one going on reads and writes. I was already up to 6 or 7 without checking for the WD.
[01:45:58] <Valen> are there any open source "compilers" for vhdl or verilog?
[01:46:26] <PCW> The WD clear should only need to happen once...
[01:46:35] <mozmck> there's freehdl and icarus (sp?), but I think they are simulators
[01:46:45] <PCW> Verilog yes not sure about VHDL
[01:47:25] <PCW> Neither will get you to bitfiles
[01:47:44] <Valen> :-<
[01:47:45] <jepler> Valen: unfortunately, you can't program any current FPGAs with only Free Software toolchains
[01:47:57] <Goslowjimbo> Right. All that has to happen after that is reads and writes. I'm referring the geo01005's program which uses cycles of the thread to initialize.
[01:48:02] <skunkworks> hmm - they sent me 13 - I only bought 12
[01:48:06] <jepler> however, there are no-cost toolchains from xilinx and altera (only xilinx has a no-cost toolchain for linux)
[01:48:27] <Valen> MESA uses xilinx chips as i recall?
[01:48:33] <skunkworks> things are going well - I will email them so not to mess up our mojo
[01:48:36] <jepler> Valen: yes
[01:48:37] <mozmck> the only cost is a 698 gig download...
[01:48:44] <jepler> yes it's a very large download
[01:49:04] <Valen> do they use the FPGA to run the PCI bus as well or a seperate chip for that?
[01:49:17] <jepler> Valen: I think 5i20 uses a dedicated pci chip
[01:49:21] <jepler> I forget which one
[01:49:26] <Valen> funky
[01:49:27] <mozmck> jepler: I saw on the xilinx forum they say the web installer is a very small installer
[01:49:29] <jepler> installed size: 4.8Gtotal
[01:49:35] <jepler> (Xilinx92i)
[01:49:35] <Valen> lol
[01:49:46] <mozmck> only 88 MB with *no* program files.
[01:50:16] <mozmck> I think they have some serious bloat somewhere.
[01:50:53] <Valen> I think its on par with a recent edition of visual studio lol
[01:51:33] <mozmck> the download for 10.1 was around 4 gig I think and I hear 11.1 is over 5
[01:52:18] <PCW> (order the free DVD)
[01:53:00] <mozmck> 10.1: 91,355 items, totalling 5.7 GB
[01:54:28] <PCW> Note that 11.x does not support Spartan 2 anymore
[01:54:54] <sed_> I have another question, when I edit the stg.ini, do I have to restart the EMC for it to re-read it?
[01:54:56] <mozmck> what about the 9500 5v CPLDs?
[01:55:35] <PCW> Not sure
[01:55:53] <SWPadnos> the Mesa cards use PLX PCI bus interfaces (so far), the PLX9030 and PLX9050 IIRC
[01:56:17] <SWPadnos> no kidding about spartan 2. wow
[01:57:22] <jepler> sed_: yes
[01:57:40] <PCW> Valen Bridge is used so we can upload FPGA from host and not have bootstrap troubles when customers are trying new bitfiles
[01:57:57] <Valen> funky
[01:58:21] <Valen> what other software uses mesa cards just out of curiosity? or is it mainly custom stuff
[01:59:31] <PCW> Many custom applications from fast JTAG interfaces to Cell phone testers to UAV motion control
[02:02:18] <sed_> Thank you
[02:02:51] <SWPadnos> heh. there are still some damned expensive FPGAs out there: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=544-2165-ND
[02:05:42] <PCW> Dont let the smoke out of that one!
[02:05:46] <PCW> bbl
[02:05:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:05:50] <SWPadnos> see you
[02:36:35] <jmkasunich> anonimasu: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/pcbmill-table-2937.jpg
[02:37:00] <jmkasunich> rails under the table (aligned with outermost t-slots)
[02:37:05] <jmkasunich> ballscrew under the center
[02:37:35] <jmkasunich> I haven't really made any progress since that pic was taken in late May
[03:22:51] <cradek> who woulda thunk that I'd get an on-size hole when I accidentally rapided the reamer into it?
[03:23:45] <cradek> that should probably tell me something - I can ream MUCH faster
[03:23:55] <Jymmm> I knew it all the time cradek
[03:24:13] <cradek> well why didn't you say something?
[03:24:54] <Jymmm> cradek: Because you would be running around trying to ream everyone a new hole
[03:25:04] <toastydeath> boo hiss
[03:25:21] <Jymmm> toastydeath: F U... you know it was good =)
[03:25:46] <Jymmm> LOL
[03:25:56] <cradek> but it really wasn't that good...
[03:26:03] <Jymmm> true
[03:26:08] <cradek> :-)
[03:26:24] <Jymmm> we'll toss it in the "classic" pile
[03:26:49] <Jymmm> Does come around too often that you can actually use that now.
[03:27:00] <cradek> can anyone else see http://www.franksworkshop.com.au/img_bin/gwiz.png
[03:27:40] <cradek> I'm curious how he's using gwiz for lathe work
[03:27:47] <cradek> sounds like he's happy with it
[03:29:01] <Jymmm> website seriously slow
[03:29:16] <Jymmm> not even established a connection yet
[03:29:30] <Jymmm> not timing out either
[03:29:38] <cradek> ok, maybe tomorrow it'll work.
[03:30:08] <Jymmm> you could imagebin.ca it
[03:30:24] <cradek> it's not mine - I want to see it
[03:30:29] <Jymmm> ah
[03:30:40] <Jymmm> timedout locally, wait for server to.
[03:30:51] <Jymmm> waiting for my server to timeout
[03:33:35] <toastydeath> not loading
[03:35:26] <LawrenceG> no good from the north
[03:37:39] <Jymmm> cradek: what is aaaa pic of?
[03:38:06] <cradek> gwiz being used for lathe stuff, mentioned on emc-users
[03:38:17] <Jymmm> what is gwiz?
[03:38:33] <cradek> gcode-generating wizard framework for emc
[03:41:30] <Jymmm> This is kinda funny....http://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/SATA_RAID_FAQ
[03:41:56] <Jymmm> The following is a true story....
[03:42:49] <Jymmm> Guy is about to have his 2nd child. As such they receive a huge pink box delivered via FedEx.
[03:43:37] <Jymmm> The 2.5 yo see's the box being delivered and runs to dad... "THE BABY IS HERE!!! THE BABY IS HERE"
[04:08:49] <eric_unterhausen> Jymmm: raid faq is funny
[04:09:47] <Jymmm> eric_unterhausen: Yeah, but it's true and most dont know that.
[04:10:46] <eric_unterhausen> makes sense, I have an old raid card, you can probably beat the processor on there with a $10 ARM nowadays
[04:11:01] <Jymmm> heh
[04:11:04] <eric_unterhausen> makes sense just to use the main cpu
[04:12:35] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'm just looking for a box/board that supports 8+ drives
[04:13:44] <eric_unterhausen> which raid level?
[04:14:36] <Jymmm> 5/6
[04:17:04] <eric_unterhausen> I might get a patent
[04:18:29] <Jymmm> they make lawyer rich
[04:18:45] <eric_unterhausen> I'm not paying
[04:19:25] <eric_unterhausen> University pays, they get some of any royalties
[04:20:15] <eric_unterhausen> there is a guy on ebay selling all his tooling, says he's going to become a walmart greeter
[04:21:32] <Jymmm> lol
[04:22:57] <eric_unterhausen> different guy: "I found these in my father-in-laws basement.  I do not know much about them. "
[04:23:08] <eric_unterhausen> put them back, he's going to miss them!
[08:55:41] <roh> re
[09:02:32] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: nice!
[09:22:32] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[11:34:31] <anonimasu> hm, 200eur for way covers
[11:36:35] <archivist> design the need out
[11:37:52] <anonimasu> it's actually not too bad..
[11:38:36] <anonimasu> that's custom way covers with my width and flanges and everything
[11:41:20] <anonimasu> other option is to cover the screw with a bellow, but that's a hack.
[11:42:33] <anonimasu> archivist: yeah I can mount them in reverse like jmkasunich, but the issue then is that I end up with even longer between tools and rails
[11:44:37] <archivist> or make sliding sheet protection as some machines do
[11:46:33] <anonimasu> yeah, but that includes lots of parts, and lots of work
[11:47:44] <anonimasu> I have a run of parts that costs 750 eur to send out and have done... that I can make in a hour, on a cnc lathe
[11:50:23] <anonimasu> how much time is it worth messing around with making things yourself, when you can have the machine cutting stuff and paying the cost of making it back?
[11:51:39] <archivist> do the calculations, there is a payback point, also there is the undefinable learning as well
[11:54:28] <anonimasu> im more into making parts then building :)
[11:55:48] <archivist> if you can see a job paying the costs inside a year or two or even less then seems a good idea
[11:56:51] <anonimasu> hm, I can see a job paying for the lathe in 2 days..
[11:58:20] <anonimasu> that includes one day of messing around trying to understand how to use it :D
[11:58:38] <archivist> heh thats a lot faster payback than normal
[11:59:02] <anonimasu> well, I have 5 parts we made half a year ago at a machineshop
[11:59:14] <anonimasu> they charged 750eur for 5 of them
[11:59:39] <archivist> machining time and size?
[12:00:12] <anonimasu> 5cm of machining in the end of some piston rods
[12:00:21] <anonimasu> and a thread...
[12:00:35] <archivist> dia?
[12:00:44] <anonimasu> 35mm
[12:01:32] <archivist> add vertical sides to your lathe
[12:02:22] <anonimasu> and making the piston for the rods will probalby be 1000eur for 5 of them because there are alot of dimensions
[12:03:09] <anonimasu> making them on a cnc would take about 10 minutes on a micro one
[12:03:22] <archivist> machine deflection will make dimensional accuracy hard to achieve, stiffness helps
[12:03:36] <anonimasu> and what tooling you use
[12:04:26] <anonimasu> as I will have a high rpm spindle, I can go with tooling that's better suited for tiny cuts and run faster
[12:04:26] <archivist> tooling wont fix a machine fault
[12:05:15] <archivist> I run at top rpm if I can
[12:05:33] <anonimasu> but using tooling for rouging at 500rpm when you have a machine that's light and have high spindle speed dosent make sense
[12:07:48] <anonimasu> though I got your point about machine design, but we'll see about that there's nothing that prevents me from making a subframe to stiffen it alot
[12:08:01] <archivist> threading is never a light operation
[12:08:20] <archivist> unless milled
[12:08:27] <anonimasu> the sanvik cutting data states 0.1mm on the first pass..
[12:08:40] <anonimasu> err seco
[12:08:48] <anonimasu> then taking like 16 passes per thread..
[12:09:01] <anonimasu> decreasing the infeed per pass
[12:20:18] <anonimasu> sorry, actually it's 0.5 the forst pass, and the final pass is 0.10
[12:20:26] <anonimasu> first..
[12:20:41] <anonimasu> for a 6.0mm pitch thread
[12:21:23] <anonimasu> for a 4mm pitch thread that ends up as 0.34 for the first and decresing down to 0.08 for the last
[12:21:55] <archivist> thats some load
[12:48:47] <jepler> micges: thanks for working on the wiki to note the new release
[12:56:39] <skunkworks-> jepler: These servos are nice :)
[12:57:20] <jepler> skunkworks-: you got yours? cool
[12:57:34] <skunkworks-> Yes - did you figure out if one of your encoders was bad?
[12:57:54] <jepler> no, I have not tried that one
[13:29:11] <SWPLinux> hello from flight 421
[13:29:59] <skunkworks-> flying?
[13:30:05] <SWPLinux> yep
[13:30:41] <SWPLinux> somewhere between Baltimore and Dallas at the moment
[13:30:49] <SWPLinux> (closer to Baltimore)
[13:32:12] <skunkworks-> Is that a first class option?
[13:32:16] <skunkworks-> ;)
[13:32:33] <SWPLinux> no. even riff-raff can get it :)
[13:32:58] <SWPLinux> for the same $12.95
[13:41:15] <skunkworks-> pretty cool. - What is that technology I wonder
[13:41:59] <archivist> bicycle
[13:42:50] <skunkworks-> that is when you bring your own router and let everone else get in for free :)
[13:45:45] <micges> jepler: sure
[13:51:30] <SWPLinux> it's reasonably fast too. I'm downloading a 20M file at ~85 kB/sec
[13:51:56] <SWPLinux> ok, half that now that I mention it
[13:51:58] <SWPLinux> geez
[13:52:17] <SWPLinux> ok, back up near 90
[14:00:26] <mozmck_work> SWPLinux: working in Dallas?
[14:02:30] <Valen> * Valen is waiting for SWPLinuxs next comment (in about 4 days) to be
[14:02:34] <Valen> hello from prison
[14:02:41] <Valen> In jail huh?
[14:02:42] <anonimasu> :)
[14:02:56] <Valen> Yeah turns out they charge $5/kb
[14:03:18] <SWPLinux> mozmck_work: yep. shooting some promo at TCU in Fort Worth tomorrow, plus meetings today and Thursday
[14:03:57] <anonimasu> omfg.
[14:04:00] <anonimasu> what a 3rd world country.
[14:04:28] <SWPLinux> you'd think that higher-numbered worlds would be more advanced
[14:04:35] <mozmck_work> Nice and warm down here. although yesterday never got about the mid 80s
[14:04:42] <SWPLinux> oh darn
[14:05:18] <SWPLinux> I'm sure the forecast 100 degrees will feel warm compared to the 70s-80s and rain we've had
[14:05:48] <mozmck_work> hmmm, we just had rain too :)
[14:06:13] <mozmck_work> nice humid heat :(
[14:06:35] <SWPLinux> lovely
[14:07:23] <Valen> hey SWPLinux be happy that you can download a file on a plane travelling a bazzilion miles an hour, a mile in altitude at > half the speed i can get photos out of my phone
[14:07:51] <SWPLinux> yeah. I know it's a pain to get the technology right
[14:08:15] <Valen> I thaught the usb cable would be much faster than the bluetooth connection i was using
[14:08:16] <SWPLinux> even pointing at a satellite is a PITA for a plane that needs to pitch and turn
[14:08:48] <SWPLinux> if only they had power available too
[14:08:48] <Valen> i think i must just have a slow memory card though as the transfer from internal phone memory was much faster
[14:09:17] <Valen> I believe most in-flight interwebs are provided wither by dedicated radio (ground based) or satellite
[14:09:36] <Valen> the power available on the plane is massive compared to whats needed
[14:09:50] <Valen> even 100W in a "straight up ish" direction would be enough
[14:10:12] <Valen> you could see what your connection is like if you want, whats your public IP address ;->
[14:10:19] <Valen> www.whatismyip.org
[14:11:52] <SWPLinux> it looks like I'm at
[14:12:10] <SWPLinux> but that shouldn't be routable I think
[14:12:28] <Valen> that private yes
[14:12:38] <archivist> bah no web server on it
[14:12:38] <Valen> is that what shows up at that website?
[14:12:40] <SWPLinux> traceroute to linuxcnc.org shows all * * * until the last nop
[14:12:43] <SWPLinux> yes
[14:12:52] <Valen> wergh they be doing somethng weird
[14:13:02] <Valen> oh i got one
[14:13:03] <Valen> one sec
[14:13:09] <SWPLinux> oh no, it's slightly different
[14:13:19] <SWPLinux>
[14:15:49] <Valen> hmmm my web server is down
[14:16:43] <Valen> and there is an error showing the error screen
[14:16:59] <archivist> if this box Im on is working, my web server is working :)
[14:18:35] <Valen> if you visit the backup site at
[14:18:45] <Valen> so
[14:19:15] <archivist> hehe Vapourforge
[14:19:32] <Valen> thats me
[14:20:01] <Valen> is you archivist?
[14:20:11] <archivist> no
[14:20:29] <archivist> im 81....
[14:20:41] <Valen> THE LEONARD GRAPHIC DBA RUSSELL THE-LEON35-63 (NET-12-37-63-0-1)
[14:20:48] <mozmck_work> that's me
[14:20:52] <SWPLinux> wow. I didn't realize you were that old
[14:20:58] <Valen> lol
[14:21:23] <archivist> kedz
[14:21:31] <Valen> was that you just then SWPLinux?
[14:21:32] <archivist> kidz even
[14:21:43] <SWPLinux> who?
[14:21:44] <mozmck_work> Valen: no that was me
[14:22:22] <Valen> no that was a different one
[14:22:28] <mozmck_work> oh, I see
[14:22:30] <Valen> this iss Internet Nebraska Corporation
[14:23:55] <Valen> liking my page load times mozmck ;->
[14:25:01] <Valen> lol its got to be the densest cluster of Ubuntu/8.04 (hardy) Firefox/3.0.11" useragents i have gotten ;->
[14:25:41] <mozmck_work> heh
[14:26:18] <Valen> hows firefox 3.5?
[14:26:20] <archivist> * archivist contemplates ab -n 50
[14:26:21] <mozmck_work> loaded fast.
[14:26:43] <mozmck_work> seems pretty fast, but I haven't done a whole lot with it
[14:26:55] <Valen> wassat do archivist?
[14:26:56] <mozmck_work> still on 3.0.x at home
[14:27:18] <Valen> hmmm wants to install from apache packages
[14:27:24] <Valen> guessing its a load test lol
[14:27:27] <archivist> Valen, 50 requests for the page its the apache bench tool
[14:27:36] <Valen> heh sure go ahead
[14:27:46] <Valen> I hope the quad core serving the VM is up to it ;->
[14:28:15] <archivist> should be easy for it
[14:28:15] <Valen> Cpu(s): 0.0%us, 0.0%sy, 0.0%ni,100.0%id, 0.0%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
[14:29:16] <Valen> thats better the "real" webserver is back up and running
[14:29:26] <Valen> ran out of space on / on the host machine there
[14:30:24] <SWPLinux> well, looks like this big laptop needs a bigger battery if I want to use in-flight wifi :(
[14:30:28] <SWPLinux> see you later
[14:30:33] <Valen> visit the web page
[14:30:40] <Valen> i wanna ping an aeroplane
[14:30:46] <Valen> aww :-<
[14:31:11] <Valen> I am a forign type I wonder how long before the black helicopters turn up if i port scanned it ;->
[14:31:17] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/Screenshot-8.png
[14:31:40] <skunkworks-> jepler: where yours marked 7.75? I wonder if they bought them for that price ;)
[14:32:02] <Valen> thats actually running really slow archivist
[14:32:06] <jepler> skunkworks-: I don't recall seeing it
[14:32:11] <jepler> marked where?
[14:32:26] <Valen> It normally has a page generation time of ~.0 something seconds
[14:32:36] <archivist> Valen, compared to a local yes slow
[14:32:52] <Valen> I meant even for a remote connection it seemed slow
[14:32:58] <archivist> what other load on that box though
[14:33:16] <Valen> 12:30 so no TV recording should be ~0
[14:33:21] <archivist> and sometimes there is network load
[14:33:39] <Valen> still
[14:33:48] <Valen> might have a look at that a little more locally
[14:33:57] <archivist> I have another box that could have been stealing bandwidth at the time
[14:34:25] <archivist> http://askmonty.org/buildbot/waterfall I have two on there
[14:34:36] <Valen> ok its a litte faster on the local machine
[14:34:50] <Valen> 99% of requests handled in 10ms
[14:34:54] <archivist> 64bit is idle but the rtai still working
[14:34:57] <Valen> 50% within 3
[14:35:08] <skunkworks-> jepler: magic marker on the servo body.
[14:36:38] <Valen> ext3 is slow to delete large files
[16:19:04] <anonimasu> did anyone come up with a good way to clamp a ballscrew in a lathe to make 100% sure it dosent have any runout at all?
[16:20:34] <archivist> collet and check with a dti
[16:21:03] <anonimasu> if you dont have a collet..
[16:21:48] <skunkworks-> bore a sleeve that will slip over the threads to indicate.
[16:22:06] <cradek> get a wire the diameter of the balls, and wrap it tightly in the groove - use that in the collet
[16:22:21] <cradek> you can't assume the outside diameter is concentric
[16:22:30] <skunkworks-> yeck
[16:22:32] <anonimasu> cradek: that's a good idea
[16:22:52] <anonimasu> though a mess if you dont have a collet chuck
[16:23:12] <cradek> if you have to use a 4-jaw, make a sleeve like skunkworks says, except use that over the wire
[16:24:02] <cradek> does the screw not come with spots on the ends for centers? did you have to cut it off or something?
[16:24:28] <cradek> NB: I have never done this - sounds hard :-)
[16:24:59] <anonimasu> no, they do not
[16:25:14] <cradek> yuck
[16:25:38] <anonimasu> buing them pre machined doubles the price :)
[16:25:48] <anonimasu> from like 40 eur for a screw to 100
[16:25:54] <anonimasu> err more then doubles..
[16:26:01] <cradek> alternatively, you could indicate IN the groove - just set up the carriage travel to match the screw pitch
[16:26:32] <anonimasu> hm, that's a better idea
[16:26:41] <anonimasu> make a sleeve, that fit
[16:26:43] <anonimasu> s
[16:27:00] <anonimasu> and indicate within the groove, and adjust the 4 jaw until it's good
[16:28:21] <cradek> I'd drill for centers at the same time
[16:29:00] <anonimasu> my lathe's taking more shape now
[16:29:52] <anonimasu> with the slides on I have about 45mm up to the center of the chuck
[17:04:09] <skunkworks-> anonimasu: did you see this thread? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51688
[17:13:53] <Valen> hey thats a good point guys I hadn't thaught of that for our conversion
[17:18:04] <archivist> anonimasu, mount the headstock on dowels and fit, mount a spindle on the slide, and line bore the headstock from the slide
[17:20:51] <Valen> thats looking pretty spiffy anonimasu
[17:23:34] <Valen> spiffy enough that i'm off to bed ;->
[17:23:36] <Valen> night all
[17:31:58] <anonimasu> archivistI'll just turn the inside of the spindle witha pcd tool
[17:32:26] <archivist> anonimasu, no to get bearing seats in line with rails
[17:34:12] <anonimasu> oh.. I forgot to tell you, I wont have a headstock..
[17:35:00] <archivist> you had on in your drawing
[17:35:36] <anonimasu> nope
[17:35:50] <anonimasu> http://www.io23.net/ul/files/lathe07_2d.png
[17:37:47] <skunkworks-> * skunkworks- sees a headstock...
[17:38:00] <archivist> exactly
[17:38:20] <skunkworks-> makes for a funny lathe ;)
[17:38:54] <archivist> I still dont like the flat base
[17:38:57] <anonimasu> ah.. spindle housing..
[17:39:05] <archivist> yes
[17:39:17] <anonimasu> well, as my dad suggested weld in braces..
[17:39:31] <archivist> welding distorts
[17:39:35] <anonimasu> but as I dont have a oven to throw it in it's a no go
[17:40:10] <archivist> bolted sides as that cnczone lathe yes
[17:41:47] <anonimasu> yep
[17:41:57] <BJT-Work> http://www.green-trust.org/junkyardprojects/FreeHomeWorkshopPlans/6inTurretLatheSN23.pdf
[17:42:35] <anonimasu> perhaps it would be better going with a 150x150 square beam..
[17:42:50] <anonimasu> err 500x300 :]
[17:43:13] <anonimasu> but, as usual I cant get that
[17:44:12] <archivist> you can make up any shape with sheet
[17:44:48] <anonimasu> I cant, someone else can
[17:45:33] <archivist> you have access to a mill
[17:45:43] <archivist> therefore you can
[17:45:58] <anonimasu> that dosent mean I can bend 20mm thick sheet to a square form
[17:46:03] <anonimasu> err sqaure
[17:46:33] <archivist> no need to bend, use flats and screw together
[17:47:32] <anonimasu> I'll machine a pair of dowels in so I can do a secondary op, to add that to the base.
[17:48:19] <archivist> my table was a little flexy on the mill I just added flats bellow
[17:54:24] <BJT-Work> archivist: you have a pic of your lathe
[17:54:34] <BJT-Work> ?
[17:54:50] <anonimasu> archivist: btw, to cut magan steel it takes 3600N/mm2
[17:55:05] <anonimasu> which seems to be the hardest crap in my book..
[17:55:21] <archivist> BJT-Work, no lathe yet was a mod to the mill table
[17:55:25] <anonimasu> err 3750N/mm2 for hardened steel
[17:55:56] <BJT-Work> I meant mill :/ brain is fuzzled a bit
[17:56:07] <anonimasu> and really, that isnt alot
[17:56:30] <archivist> tome I took pics of the erm extensions
[17:56:35] <archivist> time
[17:56:50] <anonimasu> archivist: actually my rails will limit my cutting by their rigidity
[17:57:12] <archivist> anonimasu, the base supports the rails
[17:57:34] <archivist> so the base defines the system
[17:57:37] <anonimasu> the rails have a specified limit of torque
[17:57:45] <anonimasu> where they will deflect
[17:58:03] <anonimasu> ofcourse the base has to be alot stiffer.
[17:58:11] <archivist> dynamic and static loads
[17:59:56] <anonimasu> btw, the machinists handbook had a definition of composite loads for cutting..
[18:01:53] <archivist> the Cincinnati milling handbook has useful data as well
[18:17:06] <anonimasu> time to see how it holds up to fea
[18:32:07] <skunkworks-> jepler: is this what you ended up getting? http://usdigital.com/products/cables-connectors/connectors/con-c5/
[18:33:23] <mozmck_work> I'm getting warnings about undefined functions when compiling a comp file. Is this normal?
[18:34:24] <mozmck_work> WARNING: "hal_ready" [/tmp/tmp99hiFn/idoubler.ko] undefined!
[18:34:24] <mozmck_work> WARNING: "rtapi_print_msg" [/tmp/tmp99hiFn/idoubler.ko] undefined!
[18:34:37] <SWPLinux> those are linker warnings, no?
[18:34:48] <mozmck_work> and several others. the component works fine though.
[18:34:53] <mozmck_work> looks like.
[18:34:57] <SWPLinux> yep. I think that's normal
[18:35:32] <SWPLinux> the linker doesn't know about all the kernel functions you link to, because they're in object files it doesn't know about (and doesn't need to know, sinc elinking happens at insmod time)
[18:35:38] <jepler> skunkworks-: I bought cable assemblies http://usdigital.com/products/cables-connectors/cables/5-pin/ca-c5-sh-nc/
[18:36:25] <mozmck_work> I see. I don't know enough about kernel modules I guess...
[18:37:48] <skunkworks-> jepler: thanks!
[18:37:50] <jepler> those warnings are in the category of "someone should do something". The kernel creates files with names like "Modules.symvers" which can in principle be used to only print these warnings when they represent real errors .. but I don't care enough to figure out the sordid details. (something about gathering up the ones from emc2 and rtai and smushing them together)
[18:38:29] <SWPLinux> I bet that involves some program with "obj" in its name
[18:52:20] <sed_> Morning Gentlmen, on the TkEMC gui, what does the AXIS Speed slider do?
[18:53:52] <cradek> I think it sets the jog speed
[18:58:00] <Jymmm> http://www.contextfreeart.org/gallery/view.php?id=4
[18:59:23] <Jymmm> Looks like it's moving http://www.contextfreeart.org/gallery/view.php?id=53
[19:03:02] <sed_> On the old EMC1 I was running it did not do anything. But if this is for jog speed and the Feed override is for interpolated moves, why does the feed override also slow the rapid moves?
[19:04:34] <cradek> feed override has always scaled everything - I don't have a good answer for why that is
[19:05:25] <sed_> Thanks, I appreciate all your help
[19:06:57] <cradek> in EMC1 it even scaled homing moves, which was a bug, and has now been fixed
[19:07:30] <cradek> EMC2 now also has a maximum velocity slider that lets you limit your rapid speed without affecting feeds - very useful if you have a fast machine.
[19:11:44] <sed_> When tuning I set the MAX_VELOCITY = 0.5, when I do this this limits the DAC output voltage to that value, why?
[19:12:22] <cradek> probably because that is what is in your HAL file
[19:12:47] <cradek> seems like it would be appropriate for velocity mode servo amps - if it's not appropriate for you, you can change it
[19:13:20] <sed_> I am setting it with the calibration window. If I increase the value the DAC value will increase.
[19:13:35] <cradek> look for something like setp pid.0.maxoutput [AXIS_0]MAX_VELOCITY
[19:15:28] <sed_> which HAL file should I look in?
[19:16:00] <cradek> keep looking until you find the pid maxoutput settings
[19:19:02] <SWPLinux> cool
[19:19:21] <SWPLinux> the company that had all those taps also had 18mm end mills, but there was an error in the listing
[19:19:28] <sed_> I found it in the core_servo.hal file. "setp pid.0.maxoutput [AXIS_0]MAX_VELOCITY"
[19:19:39] <SWPLinux> so I called, and they're sending a Cobalt mill instead of HSS
[19:19:55] <SWPLinux> (the error was that it has a 5/8 shank instead of 1/2, which I don't care about)
[19:20:45] <sed_> Does find the value in the sgt.ini file?
[19:22:11] <sed_> sorry, Doed this hal file find the value in the stg.ini file?
[19:23:12] <alex_joni> [AXIS_0]MAX_VELOCITY is taken from the ini
[19:24:02] <sed_> According the the Integrator Manual, the MAX_VELOCITY value in the stg.ini file relates to units/second.
[19:24:48] <sed_> This does not seem to be true.
[19:25:15] <cradek> yes it is true
[19:25:25] <cradek> the problem is your hal file also limits the dac output to the same number
[19:25:37] <cradek> for velocity mode amps scaled in units/second that would be correct.
[19:25:48] <cradek> sounds like it is not correct for you, so just change it to whatever maxoutput is correct for you.
[19:26:05] <sed_> OK I'll try it, Thank you.
[19:27:42] <cradek> welcome
[19:30:46] <als> I was wondering if I could talk someone into making a change to TkEMC.tcl so that active line uses yview instead of see so the next line to be executed shows?
[19:33:59] <cradek> if you make a patch and send it to the emc-developers list I bet someone would be happy to review your change
[19:34:21] <cradek> this is super easy now with git format-patch
[19:34:29] <als> I make the change and works fine "But when I update it gets changed back
[19:35:04] <als> I'll have to install git right?
[19:35:23] <cradek> I think using git would be the easiest way
[19:35:51] <als> never made a patch though
[19:35:53] <cradek> if it is really just one line, you could try describing it instead
[19:36:12] <cradek> brb
[19:37:10] <als> near the bottom of the tcl file you will see "active line see" just change to yview / see
[19:38:06] <archivist> line number?
[19:38:42] <als> 2556 maybe I cant view the source from this computer though
[19:43:41] <jepler> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=tcl/tkemc.tcl;h=2ed43a50be97140f760ea11b5e0692aacc9fd8cc;hb=HEAD#l2662
[19:45:10] <als> 2662 $programfiletext see $activeLine.0
[19:45:34] <archivist> to ?
[19:45:59] <als> 2662 $programfiletext yview $activeLine.0
[19:47:41] <tlab> anyone able to help me out. I need to figure out how to pick the settings in emc for this type of controller.. http://www.embeddedtronics.com/microstep.html
[19:50:05] <cradek> there is insufficient information in the manual to answer the timing-related questions
[19:50:34] <cradek> seems like you will have to ask the manufacturer for this information (or else guess)
[19:51:17] <alex_joni> or maybe deduce them from the chip specifics?
[19:51:23] <cradek> alex_joni: pic
[19:51:33] <alex_joni> ah, then nope ;)
[19:51:39] <cradek> you'd have to deduce them from the source code (which is there)
[19:51:42] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wouldn't touch it with a pogo stick
[19:52:03] <archivist> source code supplied so use can work it out
[19:52:06] <archivist> user
[19:52:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni underclocked his last PIC to 50Hz
[19:52:38] <cradek> I wish people would stop making step/dir controllers out of pics/avrs
[19:52:48] <jepler> they say "it isn't recommended to use a step pulse rate higher than 45kHz", so you can infer that the step length and step space must both be less than 22222
[19:53:05] <tlab> know of a better motion that I can build?
[19:53:14] <tlab> controller*
[19:53:15] <jepler> for direction setup and hold, it doesn't hurt performance to specify a big number such as 100000 which is probably larger than any stepper driver's requirement in practice
[19:57:00] <tlab> what kind of motor controller should I use for a desktop mill?
[19:57:02] <tlab> gecko?
[19:57:12] <jepler> the active step edge is the falling edge, so select to invert the step pulse
[20:12:17] <alex_joni> tlab: it depends on your needs & budget
[20:12:36] <tlab> cheap, and I'm just doing pcb
[20:12:52] <alex_joni> geckos are not cheap
[20:12:55] <Jymmm> aren't we all
[20:13:12] <tlab> any suggestions?
[20:13:22] <tlab> or should I stick to the pic/avr type solution?
[20:13:32] <Jymmm> tlab: do you already have a machine?
[20:14:11] <tlab> no, trying to just do the electronic now, for my senior design, but I plan on getting a fireball, unless I find a more suitable cnc
[20:16:03] <Jymmm> This? http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/
[20:16:11] <tlab> ya
[20:16:57] <tlab> bit big for pcb, but I can't find anything about the same in price
[20:17:48] <Jymmm> dremel.... Eeeeewwwwwwww
[20:18:05] <tlab> ya I plan on using a small spindle with low runout
[20:19:05] <tlab> http://cgi.ebay.com/Package-Deal-for-the-TB-350S-CNC-Router-Spindle_W0QQitemZ170349312966QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item27a99c3bc6&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30
[20:26:44] <alex_joni> http://failblog.org/2009/07/07/dump-truck-fail/ <- ROFLMAO
[20:28:13] <jepler> shorter auction link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170349312966 thanks to greasemonkey script http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/2256
[20:40:36] <motioncontrol> good evening.A question please.i have a tool magazine controlled with absolute encoder (6 bit).Exist in emc a component for convert BCD in integer value ?
[20:41:05] <jepler> no, but you should find it fairly simple to write
[20:41:17] <jepler> I take that back; it is possible that the weighted_sum component can do what you require
[20:41:38] <motioncontrol> Jepler please can help me? thanks
[20:41:53] <jepler> no, I am not interested in tutoring you on writing components. Please read the documentation.
[20:42:51] <motioncontrol> please can indication a link for read a documentation for component write ?
[20:44:25] <jepler> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview//2.3/html/
[20:44:36] <jepler> search for "Comp: a tool for creating HAL components"
[20:45:10] <motioncontrol> ok thanks for help jepler.
[20:46:04] <jepler> oh and you'll find the manual for weighted_sum on that page too
[20:46:21] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[20:47:19] <tom3p> anonimasu: there are some web sites that show how to fold slide covers from plastic sheet ( accordian folding )
[20:49:08] <motioncontrol> ok thanks jepler now read the doc
[20:49:11] <als> tom3p, lets have a look
[20:49:37] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:51:48] <jepler> bookmark that page, except for stuff on the wiki, all emc2 documentation is one click away from that page.
[21:37:28] <mshaver> Does the ini file parameter [EMC]DEBUG still do anything? I ask because it's not mentioned here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config_ini_config.html
[21:41:09] <jepler> mshaver: yes, it does
[21:42:07] <mshaver> OK!
[21:44:54] <motioncontrol> jepler excuse for question. i can use for convert bcd in integer a mux8.comp and assign at input the value for bcd combination.is ok?
[21:45:41] <motioncontrol> the mux componet decode in bcd the input
[21:46:59] <Jymmm> anyone have that link to the atom mobo on newegg?
[21:47:40] <Jymmm> ah found it sorta
[21:47:57] <jepler> mux8 does just what the documentation says. if you've determined that it's appropriate for your use, then use it.
[21:49:15] <jepler> I don't think it's likely to be useful when you have 6 bits of inputs that you want to turn into a single number (mux8 has 3 'sel' inputs); you mentioned tool numbers which are of type s32, but the output of mux8 is a float
[21:49:35] <jepler> these are some things you can consider as you try to determine whether it's appropriate for your goal
[21:49:58] <motioncontrol> i have create a mux64.comp and fuction ok
[21:50:44] <motioncontrol> i have modification the mux8 and i have create a mux16,mux32,mux64 ecc component
[21:51:12] <motioncontrol> but i don't have the capacity for create a new component in this moment
[21:51:38] <tomp> als anonimasu: re: bellows folding http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2131/bellows.html
[21:51:49] <motioncontrol> i want more time for study the code for bcd conversion and write the componentù
[21:57:17] <motioncontrol> ok thenks for help jepler , in next day i study the code for componet the bcd to integer conversion and if fuction ok i send at wiki.thanks for help and good night at all.
[22:01:10] <anonimasu> archivist: btw, cutting loads arent as high as you think
[22:01:17] <anonimasu> 3600N/mm2
[22:02:40] <anonimasu> with the cutting data of my roughing inserts that ends up as about Ap=3 and the feed per rev at 0.6mm
[22:03:13] <anonimasu> that gives 3600N*1.8mm^2
[22:05:52] <archivist> and the base deflection at that force when simply supported
[22:06:35] <anonimasu> I need to fix my model to do FEA of it..
[22:07:15] <anonimasu> archivist: also, note the point that it's beyond the load capability of my rails
[22:09:52] <anonimasu> archivist: another point to note that 3600N on the rail translates to 3600N over the full 700mm of the rail...
[22:10:54] <anonimasu> which gives me 0.257N/mm^2
[22:11:11] <anonimasu> if we assume we are only loading one rail..
[22:12:14] <archivist> carriage is more of a point load not over all the length
[22:14:04] <anonimasu> are you sure, that that is correct, because that depends on how stiff the actual steel rails inside are..
[22:15:11] <archivist> support for the rail is spread, but load is carriage position
[22:15:58] <anonimasu> Yeah, but load wont be local to just where the carridge sits
[22:16:03] <anonimasu> err carriage..
[22:16:08] <archivist> you need a copy of Roark's Stresses and Strains
[22:16:47] <anonimasu> indeed
[22:16:49] <archivist> or put model in fea and see the red
[22:17:58] <anonimasu> yeah that'll work
[22:21:31] <anonimasu> archivist: also note that the stress of 3600n/mm^2 is for haredened steel..
[22:22:13] <anonimasu> and the cutting data is from a random carbide insert with a big radius
[22:22:28] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[22:31:18] <sed_> I have another problem, what sets the maximum speed of an axis. I have tired increasing the MAX_VELOCITY and it doesn't change. I send a command of G1F30 and the velocity is correct, when I send G1F60 there is no change in velocity.
[22:32:45] <jepler> [AXIS]MAX_VELOCITY and [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY
[22:33:03] <sed_> I have increased both with no change
[22:35:48] <jepler> are you referring to the measured velocity or the commanded velocity? (In the AXIS GUI, the Vel: display is the commanded velocity.)
[22:36:21] <jepler> if there's a "max velocity" slider in your GUI, what is its setting?
[22:38:14] <jepler> there's also [TRAJ]MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY
[22:38:44] <sed_> max at 240, I have the MAX_VELOCITY=4 in the ini file
[22:39:04] <sed_> I am referring to measured velocity
[22:40:11] <sed_> I have [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY=4 [AXIS]MAX_VELOCITY=15
[22:41:20] <jepler> are you using the AXIS GUI?
[22:41:32] <sed_> TkEMC gui
[22:42:12] <jepler> switch it to "commanded" position (radiobutton on the right hand side near the middle)
[22:42:28] <jepler> when you command a 1" move at F60 does it reach the endpoint after about a second (F60) or 2 seconds (F30)
[22:43:38] <sed_> A 1" move at F30 takes ~2 secs a 1" move at F60 takes ~1.5 secs
[22:44:14] <jepler> You are looking at the DRO with "commanded" selected? I am asking you to look at the screen, not at the real world
[22:45:36] <sed_> The axis moves the correct distance, it seems to reach a top speed of about 40"/min
[22:47:54] <jepler> if you set your following error large in the inifile to ease tuning, then emc won't alert you that the motor is not keeping up with the command
[22:48:12] <jepler> I am trying to find out whether emc is commanding the motor at F60 or at ~F40
[22:48:21] <jepler> by suggesting this test of looking at the DRO set to "commanded"
[22:49:18] <jepler> you could do it in other ways, like graphing both axis.0.motor-pos-cmd and .motor-pos-fb, and looking whether they diverge during the move
[22:49:52] <jepler> by looking at pid.0.output you can see if you are reaching the maximum DAC output -- maybe the amplifier needs to be tuned so that 10V = F60 through its own tuning procedure
[22:50:31] <jepler> (all assuming that you're working with the X axis / axis 0)
[22:51:46] <sed_> I am only working with X axis at this point. The vlotage on the DAC can go full scale. The commanded voltage for the 2 feed rate moves stays at about 2v as moving.
[22:54:54] <sed_> The amps are set for full scale and I have moved it a a much faster rate. All I can tell is something in EMC is limiting the velocity.
[22:57:40] <sed_> Looking at axis.0.motor-pos-cmd and .motor.pos.fb, they converge very nicely
[22:57:49] <jepler> you mean they stay the same through the move?
[22:58:06] <jepler> (about the same)
[22:58:26] <sed_> yes
[23:00:34] <jepler> can you put your ini file on pastebin, then?
[23:06:44] <sed_> I have pasted it to: http://pastebin.ca/1487514
[23:13:23] <jepler> hmph, for me 'g1f30x' goes at .5inch/second and 'g1f60x' goes at 1inch/second .. after modifying the inifile to run as a sim configuration, no stg card involved
[23:14:11] <jepler> I was hoping something would pop out when I read the ini, or that I'd see the behavior on my system :(
[23:15:11] <sed_> Well, I can run this way for while, I would to get it faster at ome point. I think i'll continue with other problems.
[23:16:12] <jepler> whenever i've tested just a single axis, I've left all the others in the ini and hal
[23:16:26] <jepler> it's possible that there's a bug related to that, and it's biting you but not me
[23:16:37] <jepler> does the speed limit apply to interactive jogs?
[23:21:54] <jepler> bbl, it's dinnertime here
[23:37:23] <sed_> It seems to apply just to commanded G1 postions. I have not checked for jog speed. Thank you for your help, I am going to work on the homing and think about thisk problem.
[23:50:54] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Tbt0I2JDA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fzealcnc.wordjot.co.nz%2Fposts%2Fthe-micro-lathe%2F&feature=player_embedded