#emc | Logs for 2009-07-03

[00:18:11] <sed_> I found a prboem with emc or stg, it does not like limit switches that are normaly closed
[00:19:35] <sed_> while on the switch (open) I can move the axis, changing the polarty in hal to -not emc falts with a limit error (either on or off the switch)
[00:31:10] <sed_> let me clarify, we are wired for NC for operation and NO for on limit. EMC does not work, If we rewire for NO for operation emc runs. I do not want to operate in NO since if there is a failure with a broken wire the emc will not know and can crash an axis. So emc will not work with the -not. How can we change this?
[02:11:56] <Jymmm> sed_: emc or emc2?
[02:18:35] <sed_> emc2
[02:19:37] <sed_> it does not like the pin set for -not
[02:20:29] <sed_> but works fine if I hold the switch open without -not
[02:28:33] <jmkasunich> sometimes a brute force solution can be very satisfying.....
[02:28:49] <sed_> can of gas match and a hammer?
[02:29:00] <jmkasunich> I was going to cut down a dead tree with a bow saw, but I noticed that the ground was soft around it
[02:29:16] <sed_> truck?
[02:29:21] <jmkasunich> so I used my truck and a piece of rope and yanked it out
[02:29:33] <jmkasunich> no stump to dig out ;-)
[02:29:36] <sed_> kewel
[02:31:09] <sed_> so I gess people dont run with normaly closed limit switches?
[02:31:30] <jmkasunich> normally closed, open when tripped, is the preferred way
[02:32:04] <sed_> I would imagine
[02:32:27] <sed_> but the sample config with my stg card has them nomaly open and is the only way it works
[02:32:58] <jmkasunich> there are no "-not" pins for inputs on the stg driver?
[02:33:19] <sed_> there are, but they dont work
[02:33:54] <sed_> do i need a differant phiscial pin?
[02:34:08] <jmkasunich> what do you mean, "they don't work"?
[02:34:18] <jmkasunich> I'd be astonished if the -not pins are busted
[02:34:29] <jmkasunich> and if they are, it is a bug that we need to fix
[02:34:53] <jmkasunich> for every physical input pin, there are two hal pins, one is the inverse of the other
[02:35:19] <jmkasunich> start two halmeters, point one at the -in pin, and the other at the -in-not pin
[02:35:27] <jmkasunich> initially, one will be TRUE and the other FALSE
[02:35:47] <jmkasunich> then trip the switch manually - the TRUE pin will become FALSE, and the FALSE one will become TRUE
[02:36:06] <sed_> yep that works
[02:36:33] <jmkasunich> ok then - use whichever one gives the proper action
[02:37:02] <sed_> I do and when I start emc i get an error
[02:37:15] <sed_> correction when I turn emc on
[02:37:20] <sed_> machine on
[02:38:16] <jmkasunich> what error?
[02:38:18] <sed_> so with -not emc starts everything yellow, I turn machine on and get axis on limit switch error
[02:38:59] <sed_> if I turn off -not and hold the limit switch open it works fine and dies apropratly when I close the switch
[02:39:14] <jmkasunich> what do you mean "turn off -not"
[02:39:31] <jmkasunich> you mean use the -in pin instead of the -in-not pin?
[02:39:42] <sed_> in the stg_io.hal i change....... hang on..
[02:40:41] <sed_> net Xminlim <= stg.in-01 to net Xminlim <= stg.in-01-not
[02:42:01] <jmkasunich> use a halmeter and look at the state of Xminlim
[02:42:21] <jmkasunich> if it is TRUE, EMC thinks you have hit the switch
[02:42:21] <sed_> I have, it changes apropratly
[02:42:59] <jmkasunich> if you are not on the switch, it should be FALSE - if you are getting an axis-on-limit error when it is FALSE, then something else is screwed up
[02:43:01] <sed_> like I say it works fine, with the mahinc in estop I can move the axis on and off the switch and it changes from true to false and the text from yellow to red
[02:43:30] <jmkasunich> but you said it doesn't work
[02:43:46] <sed_> it does, untill I turn the machine from estop to on
[02:43:55] <sed_> hence my boggle
[02:43:56] <jmkasunich> argh
[02:44:18] <jmkasunich> first - you need to split the problem into two parts
[02:44:43] <jmkasunich> from the switch thru the wiring, STG board, driver, and HAL is the first part
[02:44:45] <sed_> just to let you know the limit switches and encoders are powered by a seporate source and are always on
[02:44:50] <jmkasunich> inside EMC's motion controller is the second part
[02:45:20] <sed_> OBTW this all works in emc1
[02:45:29] <jmkasunich> irrelevant
[02:45:33] <sed_> k
[02:46:00] <jmkasunich> with EMC2 in estop, and the axis NOT on the limit switch, what is the state of the HAL pin? what color are the numbers?
[02:46:21] <sed_> yellow
[02:46:27] <jmkasunich> btw, what gui are you using, I'm not accustomed to changing colors
[02:46:31] <sed_> when -not is set
[02:46:36] <sed_> Tk
[02:46:51] <jmkasunich> ok, I use axis, but it shouldn't matter
[02:47:17] <jmkasunich> we are having communications problems
[02:47:32] <jmkasunich> let me repeat everything to make sure I have it all
[02:47:49] <jmkasunich> you have -in-not connected to the limit switch signal
[02:47:56] <jmkasunich> you are not on the switch
[02:48:01] <jmkasunich> the numbers are yellow
[02:48:13] <jmkasunich> you haven't told me what the state of the limit switch signal is
[02:48:15] <sed_> yep and encoder and swithes are powerd
[02:48:23] <sed_> state is closed
[02:48:36] <jmkasunich> the HAL signal
[02:49:39] <sed_> I belive TRUE
[02:49:44] <jmkasunich> "I believe"
[02:49:46] <jmkasunich> ?
[02:50:16] <jmkasunich> check it: halmeter or halcmd show
[02:51:30] <sed_> hang on let me go check, what ever it was it was the same as when I removed the -not and held the switch open but reversed if that makes sence, in short I can get the machine to behave with a normaly open limit switch and no -not but not the other way around.
[02:52:36] <sed_> k just moved downstairs to mahine
[02:58:30] <jmkasunich> start emc, then open a shell, run "halcmd show all >temp", and upload the file "temp" to pastebin.ca
[03:02:39] <sed_> k hang on
[03:03:52] <mozmck> I'm trying to create a patch using "git format-patch -M origin" and it tells me, "fatal: ambiguous argument 'origin': unknown revision or path not in the working tree"
[03:05:17] <cradek> origin isn't a revision - maybe you want origin/master
[03:05:28] <mozmck> let me try it...
[03:05:35] <sed_> http://pastebin.ca/1482588
[03:05:38] <cradek> oh I see that in the EXAMPLES though
[03:05:45] <cradek> beware: I don't know what I'm talking about
[03:05:55] <mozmck> that did it
[03:06:06] <sed_> ony have X axis on for now to debug
[03:07:14] <jmkasunich> ok, both limit switch inputs are false
[03:07:18] <jmkasunich> what color are the numbers?
[03:07:31] <sed_> yellow
[03:07:49] <jmkasunich> and what happens when you start the machine?
[03:10:14] <sed_> start machine with emc in estop, nothing, turn machine on joint 0 on limit switch error
[03:10:47] <jmkasunich> failure to communicate again
[03:10:58] <jmkasunich> "start machine with emc in estop", I don't know what that means
[03:11:12] <jmkasunich> when I said "start the machine", I meant "bring it out of estop"
[03:11:35] <sed_> oh ok out of estop I get the error
[03:12:01] <jmkasunich> ok, as soon as you get the error, do halcmd show again, and post the results on pastebin
[03:12:18] <sed_> k wiil do again hang on
[03:13:46] <cradek> emc will come out of estop when on limit switches just fine - it does not ever cause that error
[03:14:10] <cradek> perhaps you mean you get it when turning machine on?
[03:14:38] <jmkasunich> maybe - precise and clear communication is important
[03:14:59] <sed_> http://pastebin.ca/1482594
[03:15:41] <jmkasunich> you say you had the error message when this "halcmd show" was taken?
[03:15:51] <jmkasunich> that doesn't make sense, because the limit inputs are both false
[03:16:01] <cradek> it's afterward
[03:16:02] <jmkasunich> (lines 26 and 27 of the pastebin)
[03:16:54] <sed_> I know, it doesent make sence.. if I open the switch to act like an nomaly open, and remove -not.. it all works
[03:16:58] <cradek> turning on Xenable (stg.out-00) is causing Xminlim (stg.in-01-not) to become true, and then Xenable immediately goes false again when emc faults.
[03:17:12] <jmkasunich> cradek: how do you know this?
[03:17:29] <cradek> it's the only explanation that makes sense
[03:17:38] <cradek> he could surely capture it with scope.
[03:17:42] <jmkasunich> ok, so you don't know it, you are speculating
[03:17:43] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:18:19] <cradek> well I know what turning machine on does (sets Xenable). I know what the "on limit switch" error means (Xminlim is true)
[03:18:25] <cradek> every time he does A, B happens
[03:18:29] <sed_> I dissconect the switch (open) I remove the -not start emc, take out of estop... move axis around close limit switch and I get the apropriate error
[03:18:30] <cradek> so A is surely causing B
[03:18:37] <jmkasunich> lol
[03:19:06] <jmkasunich> sed_: that is not usefull information
[03:19:15] <cradek> I don't know HOW - because I don't know what's wired to those
[03:19:48] <cradek> some enable circuitry? limit switch pullup supply voltage? (THIS is speculation :-)
[03:19:59] <jmkasunich> exactly - we need data
[03:20:38] <jmkasunich> and the data we need is "what exactly is happening when it fails", NOT "what I do to make it (sort of) work"
[03:21:27] <jmkasunich> it could be some external wiring thing, or it could be some stg driver bug that results in "crosstalk" between the enable output and the limit switch input
[03:21:37] <cradek> yes
[03:21:37] <sed_> sorry I wont talke about things I did to make it sort of work
[03:21:49] <jmkasunich> sed_: have you ever used halscope?
[03:22:02] <sed_> not realy
[03:22:21] <sed_> the person helping me build the machine had it up a few times..
[03:22:43] <jmkasunich> time to try ;-)
[03:22:49] <sed_> k
[03:23:11] <sed_> let me walk back to the machine..
[03:23:18] <jmkasunich> I thought you were still there
[03:23:41] <jmkasunich> I sure hope that machine is connected to the net
[03:23:57] <jmkasunich> and if so, why don't you just open an IRC client and start talking to us from there?
[03:24:11] <sed_> I am
[03:24:43] <sed_> I just switch the irc screen form my big computer to the mill wich has 640x480 and I have to stand and type
[03:25:24] <jmk-st> I see
[03:25:34] <sed_> screen is a cool tool
[03:25:54] <jmk-st> I have to stand and type on a crappy kb here too
[03:26:36] <sed_> halscope is up I cleared error machine in estop
[03:26:41] <jmk-st> anyway, start halscope by typing "halscope" in a shell
[03:26:48] <jmk-st> ok
[03:27:35] <jmk-st> do you have a "select sample rate" dialog, or are you at the scope main screen
[03:28:34] <sed_> scope main screen
[03:28:55] <jmkasunich> ok, is the sample rate already set to 1KHz (or whatever your servo rate is?)
[03:30:10] <sed_> yes
[03:30:10] <jmk-st> sed_: hello?
[03:30:13] <jmk-st> ok
[03:30:38] <jmk-st> it's getting late here, so I'm a bit impatient
[03:31:00] <sed_> thanks for all your help sorry Im a moron
[03:31:10] <jmkasunich> you're not a moron
[03:31:50] <sed_> ok I am capible of briliantly stupid shit... :)
[03:31:51] <jmkasunich> this is starting to look like an obscure issue, so it's not surprising that it is hard to troubleshoot
[03:32:16] <jmkasunich> anyway, set scope channel 1 to pin "axis.0.net-lim-sw-in"
[03:32:43] <jmkasunich> set scope channel 2 to pin "axis.0.amp-enable-out"
[03:33:50] <jmkasunich> you set a channel by first clicking on a number (from 1 to 16) under the main "screen"
[03:33:51] <sed_> how do I clear what is on those pins now?
[03:34:10] <jmkasunich> then click on the button below the number
[03:34:11] <sed_> got it
[03:34:37] <jmkasunich> the label on that button is what that channel is currently showing, and when you click on it you should get a dialog to select something else
[03:35:44] <jmkasunich> once both channels are looking at the appropriate pins, set the trigger source to channel 2 - do that by clicking on the farthest bottom left button (part of the "trigger" group)
[03:36:05] <jmkasunich> make sure the trigger edge is "rising" (next button up)
[03:37:40] <sed_> thre is axis0-pos-lim-sw-in no net
[03:38:29] <jmkasunich> there are PINS called axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in and axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in
[03:38:37] <jmkasunich> those are always there (part of EMC)
[03:38:40] <sed_> yes
[03:38:49] <jmkasunich> your config only connects a SIGNAL to one of those pins
[03:38:56] <jmkasunich> I assume you did that on purpose
[03:39:39] <jmkasunich> I asked you to point the scope at two particular pins, so why are we even talking about whether signals are connected or not?
[03:39:40] <sed_> well I thought they were for the limit switches on either end of the axis
[03:39:48] <jmkasunich> they are
[03:40:03] <jmkasunich> I don't know why you only connected one of them, I assumed you had a reason
[03:40:51] <jmkasunich> it doesn't matter at the moment - you are getting a failure with only one connected, we are trying to find the root cause of that failure
[03:41:25] <sed_> axis.0.net-lim-sw... I cant find that pin
[03:41:39] <SWPadnos> axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in
[03:41:43] <cradek> be sure you have selected the Pins tab in the dialog
[03:41:55] <cradek> they are in alphabetical order
[03:42:02] <sed_> neg is there... sorry I read net
[03:42:08] <SWPadnos> it was a typo
[03:42:50] <jmkasunich> ok, are the two scope channels set? is the trigger source set?
[03:43:34] <sed_> they are set let me set trigger source
[03:44:11] <jmkasunich> click the "normal" button in the "run mode" section, then click "force" in the trigger section - the bar above the main screen should show some progress, then the screen should refresh
[03:44:26] <jmkasunich> both signals should be false (zero)
[03:44:53] <jmkasunich> if needed, use the vertical position sliders so they aren't laying on top of each other (click a number, then drag the slider to move that trace up or down)
[03:45:05] <sed_> k says source channel 2
[03:45:27] <jmkasunich> ok, do what I said in my last three lines
[03:45:34] <sed_> I have other chanels set dono how to clear
[03:45:53] <jmkasunich> click the channel number, then "channel off"
[03:47:42] <jmkasunich> have you done the steps above? (run mode->Normal, trigger->Force, watch the black bar, screen refreshes)
[03:48:46] <sed_> ok black bar refrefreshing
[03:49:18] <jmkasunich> that should only take a couple seconds
[03:49:50] <cradek> is your card stg1 or stg2?
[03:50:19] <sed_> it says pre trig trigged triggerd, over and over
[03:50:21] <sed_> stg2
[03:51:10] <sed_> yea its like looping
[03:51:22] <jmkasunich> sed_: and you aren't doing anything?
[03:51:37] <jmkasunich> what is "run mode" set on? normal or auto?
[03:52:32] <sed_> was on auto, tried normal both same
[03:52:46] <jmkasunich> it is still "looping" even on normal?
[03:52:55] <sed_> oh normal worked
[03:52:57] <sed_> sorry
[03:53:04] <jmkasunich> argh
[03:53:43] <jmkasunich> ok, you are in normal - that means the scope is waiting for a trigger
[03:54:11] <jmkasunich> the black line should be about half way across, and it should say "trigger?"
[03:54:18] <jmkasunich> that means "waiting for a trigger"
[03:54:38] <jmkasunich> to test - click the "force" button in the trigger area
[03:54:40] <sed_> ok so do I take it out of estop?
[03:55:00] <jmkasunich> not yet
[03:55:04] <sed_> k
[03:55:24] <jmkasunich> just do what I ask, please - did you click "force"?
[03:55:33] <sed_> yes
[03:55:43] <jmkasunich> when you do, it should change to "triggered", the bar should move the rest of the way across, then the screen updates
[03:56:01] <sed_> yes then back to trigger?
[03:56:02] <jmkasunich> then it says "pre-trig", the bar move half way, then it says "trigger?" - it is waiting for another trigger
[03:56:10] <sed_> yes
[03:56:17] <jmkasunich> ok, NOW you can take it out of estop
[03:56:27] <sed_> k will do
[03:56:30] <SWPadnos> once
[03:56:31] <jmkasunich> that should trigger the scope again, and you should get the same sequence
[03:56:36] <SWPadnos> and don't do anything else
[03:57:06] <sed_> ok done
[03:57:25] <SWPadnos> did it trigger, or do you need to go to "Machine on" for that?
[03:57:37] <jmkasunich> first question - did you get the fault?
[03:57:52] <sed_> it triggerd, there is a square wave in the scope
[03:58:00] <sed_> yea i got the fault
[03:58:23] <jmkasunich> ok, which trace shows the square wave?
[03:58:24] <SWPadnos> ok, so you went to machine on?
[03:58:37] <sed_> yea machine on
[03:58:42] <SWPadnos> ok, good :)
[03:58:48] <jmkasunich> sed_: you are driving me crazy
[03:58:54] <sed_> amd enable shows square wave
[03:59:27] <sed_> amp
[03:59:45] <SWPadnos> is there a spike on the limit input any time during the swuare wave on the amp enable?
[03:59:50] <SWPadnos> square
[03:59:59] <sed_> no
[04:00:03] <jmkasunich> can you put a screenshot at imagebin.ca?
[04:00:34] <SWPadnos> and don't re-enable the machine or anything - we may ask you to change some of the view settings on halscope and paste another screenshot
[04:00:43] <sed_> will take a sec, how do I screen dump in ubuntu?
[04:00:49] <SWPadnos> alt-printscreen
[04:00:53] <SWPadnos> (just like Windows)
[04:01:39] <sed_> k let me up load to pastebin
[04:01:49] <jmkasunich> you can't put images on pastebin, use imagebin
[04:05:37] <LawrenceG> jmk... be happy... I'm getting a refresher on using hal scope.. I need it!
[04:06:19] <sed_> http://imagebin.ca/view/1VM1Oc.html
[04:06:28] <sed_> dono why its only the scope...
[04:06:38] <jmkasunich> that is a good thing
[04:07:02] <jmkasunich> you told SWPadnos there wasn't a spike on the limit input
[04:07:04] <jmkasunich> but there is
[04:07:32] <cradek> .5 seconds after enabling
[04:07:34] <SWPadnos> printscreen does the whole screen, alt-printscreen does just the current application
[04:07:38] <jmkasunich> right at the tail end of the blue pulse, there is a spike on the pink pulse
[04:08:12] <SWPadnos> and if you zoom in, you'll see that the blue falls slightly after the pink rises
[04:08:21] <SWPadnos> (that's my prediction anyway :) )
[04:08:25] <sed_> I thought he ment during the square wave, it looked like it was at the end
[04:08:36] <jmkasunich> argh
[04:08:54] <SWPadnos> ok, I could have said "during or near", but still ...
[04:08:58] <jmkasunich> use the zoom and pos(ition) sliders at the top to zoom in on the spike
[04:09:11] <sed_> sorry
[04:09:17] <jmkasunich> I bet you will find that the spike happens about 0.001 seconds before the end of the blue
[04:09:47] <sed_> ok so what does it mean?
[04:10:07] <SWPadnos> it means that something external to EMC is creating a limit switch fault about a half second after you enable your amps
[04:10:08] <jmkasunich> "something" (we don't know what yet) drives the pink line TRUE - as soon as that happens, EMC thinks the limit switch has been tripped, and so it shuts down - that turns off the blue line
[04:10:52] <SWPadnos> there are a couple of possibilities for why EMC1 works and EMC2 doesn't
[04:11:31] <SWPadnos> 1 is a bug in the driver - it's possible that there's a watchdog that isn't being refreshed by default
[04:11:44] <SWPadnos> (actually that was two possibilities)
[04:12:28] <SWPadnos> the other is a difference in how limit swiches are checked. I don't know how tight the timing was for EMC1, so it's theoretically possible that it would miss short glitches that EMC2 picks up
[04:12:29] <jmkasunich> it is also possible that there is some external noise coupling into the input - maybe your servo amps start PWMing 1/2 second after they are enabled, and that is coupling noise into the switch it is
[04:12:30] <jmkasunich>
[04:12:33] <jmkasunich> crap
[04:12:55] <jmkasunich> it is also possible that there is some external noise coupling into the input - maybe your servo amps start PWMing 1/2 second after they are enabled, and that is coupling noise into the switch
[04:13:00] <jmkasunich> that's better
[04:14:01] <cradek> you could unhook it in hal to avoid the fault condition, and see what the signal goes on to do. that would tell you if it's noise.
[04:14:03] <SWPadnos> yet EMC1 works with this hardware
[04:14:25] <SWPadnos> and it's my understanding that means all the wiring as well as the STG card
[04:14:30] <jmkasunich> I like cradeks' idea
[04:14:57] <cradek> you could also poke the switch with machine on and without, and see what the signal does both ways
[04:16:58] <cradek> goodnight, folks
[04:17:06] <cradek> hope you get it.
[04:17:11] <jmkasunich> I've got to go too - after midnight here
[04:17:23] <jmkasunich> sed_: use the scope - it is your best diagnostic tool
[04:17:29] <jmkasunich> (well, after your brain)
[04:17:43] <sed_> I realy apricate everyones help, I will let you guys get some sleep. we can pick this up on monday if anyone is till talking to me...
[04:17:58] <sed_> I will poke around with the scope for a while before I bug anyone here....
[04:18:02] <sed_> thanks for all the help
[04:18:16] <SWPadnos> see you. it is time for bed
[04:18:25] <sed_> good sleep
[04:18:27] <sed_> take care
[04:18:39] <SWPadnos> thanks. mahalo
[04:18:47] <Jymmm> Yes, the EMC geriatrics dept is closing for sleepy time...
[04:20:18] <SWPadnos> oh. before I go to bed, there is a change that should be made to the HAL files
[04:20:50] <SWPadnos> the STG input functions should be before the motion-command-handler, motion-controller, and pid.0.do-pid-calcs
[04:21:13] <SWPadnos> and you'll need to add the other PIDs when you start messing with other axes
[04:22:05] <SWPadnos> I guess stg-do-write just needs to be moved to the end
[04:22:12] <SWPadnos> night
[04:22:25] <Jymmm> toodles SWPadnos
[07:24:40] <roh> any good hints how to set some hal-parameters from a custom-m-code script?
[07:25:18] <roh> is emitting a halcmd from shell a good idea?
[08:44:08] <alex_joni> roh: sure, why not
[08:44:15] <alex_joni> halcmd setp foo
[08:44:37] <alex_joni> maybe halcmd setp foo $1
[08:44:41] <alex_joni> then M103 Pxx
[08:46:50] <Jymmm> No package 'gtk+-2.0' found
[08:46:50] <Jymmm> No package 'gthread-2.0' found
[08:48:03] <alex_joni> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=222453
[08:50:16] <Jymmm> I still have nfc which pkg
[08:50:27] <Jymmm> oh think I jsut found it...
[08:52:01] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Have you created a .deb before?
[08:52:07] <alex_joni> Jymmm: yeah
[08:52:22] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Is it easy ?
[08:52:22] <alex_joni> but I'm not sure I remember details :D
[08:52:29] <alex_joni> it depends how you do it
[08:52:36] <alex_joni> there are helper tools to make it easy
[08:52:40] <Jymmm> ah
[08:52:46] <Jymmm> ok, nm
[08:52:59] <alex_joni> there's a something, whcih works if you have a make install target
[08:53:12] <Jymmm> well, do I
[08:53:39] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.upt.ro/~juve/thecooltool/emc2-cooltool-configs_1.01.tar.gz
[08:53:43] <alex_joni> look at that source
[08:54:03] <Jymmm> Let me try and get this installed first =)
[08:54:10] <Jymmm> I have nfc what I'm doing =)
[08:54:30] <Jymmm> All I want is my M-TV (literally)
[08:55:39] <alex_joni> cdbs I think is called
[08:55:39] <Jymmm> ok, looks like libgtk2.0-dev resolved both deendancies
[09:05:33] <roh> alex_joni can i also set a network to a level or how can i abstract e.g. a pinout in the hal and have my m scripts just know some alias?
[09:05:40] <Jymmm> thanks alex_joni, got it installed - Really annoys me that dev's can never write fucking docs properly
[09:06:08] <Jymmm> Or just a simple instructions at least.
[09:06:09] <alex_joni> roh: you can sets a signal
[09:06:18] <alex_joni> but that only works if it doesn't have a writer
[09:06:51] <alex_joni> net outputs parport.pin-xx-out parport-pin-xx-out parport.pin-xx-out
[09:06:54] <alex_joni> sets outputs 0
[09:06:57] <alex_joni> that works
[09:07:11] <alex_joni> because all pins connected to the signal are readers
[09:07:33] <roh> ah. yay.. thats what i need.
[09:07:40] <alex_joni> if you have a writer connected to the signal, the writer will always set the value for the signal
[09:07:50] <alex_joni> there's also an alias possibility lately
[09:08:04] <alex_joni> roh: the only downside is that you can't connect signals to params ;)
[09:08:29] <roh> i am hacking on parsing reprap-foo with emc directly. just using an arduino to add some analog inputs, but not with the reprap firmware. means all gcode foo must happen in emc, none in some arduino
[09:09:18] <roh> alex_joni uh.. thats bad. i also need to set some values e.g. my pid loop. or is that pin enough?
[09:17:20] <alex_joni> I think pid has all pins lately
[09:17:22] <alex_joni> no params
[09:17:42] <alex_joni> if it's still param, complain ;)
[09:17:48] <alex_joni> we'll change it all to pins eventually
[09:18:06] <roh> i see.
[09:18:06] <alex_joni> otoh, you can still setp param from the custom m-code
[09:18:13] <alex_joni> even more than one
[09:21:24] <archivist> can axes be linked in hal to gear them
[09:21:45] <alex_joni> archivist: there is a component for that
[09:21:52] <alex_joni> but you won't be gearing axes
[09:22:12] <alex_joni> you can gear stepgen's commanding the motor
[09:22:26] <archivist> see http://www.collection.archivist.info/hobbing.jpeg
[09:23:02] <alex_joni> archivist: I'd use g33 spindle-synced motion for that
[09:23:03] <alex_joni> somehow
[09:23:22] <archivist> that misses a few vital points
[09:23:27] <alex_joni> probably..
[09:23:32] <alex_joni> sorry, gotta run atm.. bbl
[09:23:46] <archivist> like remaining locked while gcode not running
[09:34:39] <Spida> Hmpf4eker
[09:34:45] <Spida> argl
[09:34:51] <Spida> wrong window
[11:14:36] <alex_joni> archivist: any reason to ever move them out of sync?
[11:14:45] <alex_joni> under g-code control I mean
[11:14:56] <alex_joni> if not, you can just have one joint in emc2 (motion controller)
[11:15:03] <alex_joni> but have 2 stepgens which move the 2 motors
[11:15:12] <alex_joni> and use a component to set the ratio between them
[11:18:15] <archivist> on phone
[11:20:00] <archivist> note on that picture all the sets of change wheels
[11:20:19] <archivist> ignore the cutting speed of course
[11:20:57] <archivist> and it misses out the manual angle changes of the cutter to work
[11:22:10] <archivist> e stop and winding the hob back for another cut wont upset the relation
[11:22:37] <alex_joni> it shouldn't
[11:22:44] <alex_joni> but I have no real idea ;)
[11:23:42] <archivist> as X(Y) and A and B and Spindle angle are related
[11:23:50] <archivist> fun :)
[11:24:21] <archivist> and I forgot Z when used on a 5 axis
[11:57:57] <alex_joni> yay, finished installing a lamp ;)
[11:58:40] <archivist> I hope its cnc controlled
[11:59:13] <alex_joni> not yet ;)
[12:34:18] <archivist> spose I should put up a hobbing machine wish list web page
[12:35:11] <BigJohnT> X10 control?
[12:35:50] <archivist> X10?
[12:36:06] <BigJohnT> controls lamps and stuff over the mains
[12:42:19] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: nah, regular on/off switches for now
[12:42:27] <alex_joni> 2 of them, but nothing too fancy
[12:43:12] <BigJohnT> YEA! my tractor is running now :)
[13:23:24] <cradek> 20% off $99 at enco...
[13:23:52] <cradek> "WEBSALE"
[13:25:31] <SWPadnos> I've been getting emails from MSC almost daily
[14:03:12] <eric_unterhause1> last time I ordered from enco, I forgot to put in the free shipping code
[14:03:46] <archivist> haha
[14:04:05] <archivist> oops must not laff
[14:10:04] <frallzor> anyone care to help me wire my motors? =)
[14:10:13] <archivist> cant reach
[14:10:28] <frallzor> http://www.brundin.biz/images/extra/STM76-185-wire-parallell.jpg
[14:10:56] <frallzor> I dont understand how to connect that to A+ A- B+ B- on my card =)
[14:13:08] <archivist> url to card
[14:13:30] <frallzor> http://www.brundin.biz/images/datasheets/4-axisdriverboard.htm
[14:13:56] <frallzor> for now, getting g540 next week
[14:14:08] <frallzor> but I still dont understand the wiring of the motors =)
[14:16:10] <archivist> fairly safe to assume eg A port, 1,2 for A winding and 3,4 for the B winding
[14:16:36] <archivist> any printing on the board
[14:16:55] <frallzor> well I still have 8 cabled and dont understand which is which
[14:16:59] <frallzor> *cables
[14:17:24] <frallzor> thats the issue =)
[14:18:32] <archivist> the motor doc you showed details colors to put in parallel
[14:19:23] <frallzor> still confused =)
[14:19:35] <frallzor> I wouldnt ask if I understood it :P
[14:21:21] <archivist> do the colours match the list at left
[14:21:36] <frallzor> yes
[14:22:17] <archivist> 4 colors = 2 coils which are in parallel
[14:22:28] <frallzor> yup that much I understand
[14:23:11] <archivist> so its two connections not 4 to the board
[14:23:29] <frallzor> hmm
[14:24:06] <frallzor> dont I need all 8 to be parallell?
[14:24:56] <archivist> you end up with 4 connections to 8 wires
[14:25:04] <SWPadnos> A and C go together, B and D go together
[14:25:56] <frallzor> still pretty confused =)
[14:26:04] <archivist> re use of a b c d etc on both diags dont help :)
[14:26:10] <SWPadnos> though that chart is confusing - it looks like they're saying A and C' should be positive at the same time, but the diagram shows them as connected together
[14:27:29] <archivist> frallzor, where they have two colours together means they are bot going to the same pin
[14:27:43] <archivist> bot both
[14:27:58] <frallzor> so much I understand
[14:28:08] <SWPadnos> oh, I see. they copied the generic 8-wire diagram but didn't update the headings in the tabel on the top right
[14:28:41] <frallzor> but I dont understand shit with A A' etc etc =)
[14:29:13] <SWPadnos> they're the two ends of a coil
[14:29:27] <SWPadnos> the motor has 4 coils, so you have 8 ends
[14:29:43] <SWPadnos> the coils are called A B C D
[14:29:47] <frallzor> which A is the + then?
[14:29:50] <frallzor> A' ?
[14:30:01] <SWPadnos> that changes as you step the motor around
[14:30:18] <SWPadnos> if you wire a stepper motor wrong, all that happens is you change the direction of rotation
[14:30:35] <SWPadnos> (assuming you don't cross-connect coils - that's not a good thing)
[14:30:51] <SWPadnos> so each of the following errors will reverse the direction:
[14:30:59] <SWPadnos> swapping A and A'
[14:30:59] <frallzor> thats why im asking what to connect to A+ A- and B+ B- on the driver =)
[14:31:02] <frallzor> dont wanna kill it
[14:31:03] <SWPadnos> swapping B and B'
[14:31:29] <SWPadnos> swapping the A and B coil connections to the driver (ie connecting A where B goes and vise versa)
[14:32:53] <frallzor> like reversing polarity for a regular motor
[14:33:08] <SWPadnos> the datasheet doesn't seem to tell you what the motor connections are
[14:33:31] <SWPadnos> but it's relatively safe to assume that one pair of pins is for one coil and the other pair is for the other coil
[14:33:55] <SWPadnos> I think it's pretty uncommon to see A B A' B' on a connector rather than A A' B B'
[14:33:57] <frallzor> yea A is one coil and B another
[14:34:18] <frallzor> what about C and D then?
[14:34:20] <frallzor> what are those
[14:34:38] <SWPadnos> I think they're calling the 4 motors A B C D
[14:34:52] <SWPadnos> they could just as well use 1 2 3 4 or X Y Z A
[14:35:16] <frallzor> i meant on the motorsheet
[14:35:28] <SWPadnos> the motor has 4 coils
[14:35:36] <SWPadnos> they're arranged in two pairs
[14:35:57] <SWPadnos> you can use only one coild from each pair (not good, halves the power)
[14:36:07] <frallzor> so A' and C' should connect to the same pin then
[14:36:09] <SWPadnos> or you can connect the two coils in each pair in either series or parallel
[14:36:13] <frallzor> if looking at the sheet
[14:36:13] <SWPadnos> I believe so
[14:36:21] <SWPadnos> you can test this with a battery
[14:36:26] <SWPadnos> like an AA cell
[14:36:51] <frallzor> got one to test with
[14:37:13] <frallzor> so if it is A' and C' its the colors to the left combined?
[14:37:21] <SWPadnos> if you connect a pair backwards (A and C, but in the wrong orientation), and connect those pins to the battery, there will be no increase in resistance to your turning the shaft
[14:37:47] <SWPadnos> if you connect a pair correctly and stick the battery on the wires, there should be a high resistance to turning the shaft
[14:38:23] <SWPadnos> (this is how people figure out the connections for motors they have no datasheets for)
[14:41:03] <frallzor> couldnt turn it
[14:41:19] <frallzor> it clicked when connected and I just couldnt turn it
[14:41:51] <frallzor> blue/white with red/white and red with blue
[14:41:54] <frallzor> as the sheet said
[14:42:18] <SWPadnos> there you go
[14:42:46] <frallzor> i was supposed to out A' and C' together right?
[14:42:47] <SWPadnos> connect the the sets of wire to the first two terminals of the driver board output
[14:43:03] <SWPadnos> I assume so, from the wiring diagram
[14:43:39] <frallzor> done
[14:43:40] <frallzor> yey
[14:44:00] <SWPadnos> if you can power up the driver board, you can test that motor manually
[14:44:12] <SWPadnos> just hit the step pin with a wire or resistor or something
[14:44:30] <SWPadnos> I'm not looking at the datasheet now, so you'll; have to figure that out for yourself :)
[14:46:10] <frallzor> ill assume its correct
[14:46:15] <frallzor> the other wires acted the same
[14:46:18] <frallzor> couldnt turn
[14:46:57] <SWPadnos> you can test it by connecting A and C' together and A' and C together (ie, reverse the C coil relative to the A coil)
[14:47:16] <SWPadnos> it should be a lot eaiser to turn, since the two coils will be cancelling each other out
[14:49:36] <frallzor> easier than before
[14:49:43] <frallzor> but hard than withour power
[14:49:54] <SWPadnos> interesting
[14:49:54] <frallzor> *harder
[14:50:06] <SWPadnos> actually, if you just short out a coil it gets difficult to turn
[14:50:30] <SWPadnos> the motor generates a voltage when you turn the shaft, which creates a current which resists the motion
[14:50:41] <frallzor> so its all good then
[14:50:55] <SWPadnos> anyway, now you know how to tell if you've wired things right :)
[14:51:03] <frallzor> yes and it seems all good
[14:53:52] <Goslowjimbo> How can I assure myself that I have the right Register Map for a Mesa 7i43 configuration? Does all of the FPGA servo configurations have the same register map?
[14:54:05] <frallzor> just to be sure, those 2 coils is just A then
[14:54:13] <frallzor> and the other 2 are B
[14:54:27] <SWPadnos> now that you've wired them together, yes, you treat them as A and B only
[14:54:41] <frallzor> so the ones on the left on the pic = A
[14:54:43] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, just make sure you're looking at the register map for the correct BIT file
[14:54:44] <frallzor> the ones under = B
[14:54:53] <SWPadnos> sure, if that makes you happy
[14:55:13] <SWPadnos> like I said, swapping them will not damage anything, it will just reverse the direction of rotation
[14:55:51] <frallzor> when looking at the motor later should it turn clockwise if looking at it from front?
[14:55:57] <SWPadnos> no idea
[14:56:15] <SWPadnos> if it turns the wrong way, you have 4 ways of correcting it
[14:56:17] <SWPadnos> no, 5
[14:56:55] <SWPadnos> (assuming you're using EMC2. there may only be 4 ways for Mach)
[14:59:45] <frallzor> superbasic Q too about the psu
[14:59:59] <Goslowjimbo> This was a cutom configuration pcw gave me. I don't think I got a register map with me. geo01005 pointed me to the one on the web.
[15:00:03] <frallzor> 2 wires for AC, 3 inputs
[15:00:20] <Goslowjimbo> me/it
[15:00:27] <frallzor> ground N and L
[15:01:04] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, then the only way to know for sure is to get the register map from PCW
[15:01:10] <frallzor> or ground might be comming in english
[15:01:28] <frallzor> *common
[15:01:37] <SWPadnos> frallzor, I'm not going to coach you on AC stuff. I can't see it and it can kill you.
[15:01:53] <archivist> earth is another name for ground
[15:01:53] <SWPadnos> get someone local who knows what they're doing to help you out
[15:02:02] <Goslowjimbo> PCW_: are you there?
[15:02:06] <frallzor> its just the input for power to he psu =)
[15:02:10] <frallzor> which ports to use
[15:02:19] <frallzor> *the
[15:02:26] <frallzor> ahh the heat is killing my brain
[15:03:25] <archivist> frallzor, I bet you have some paper document with the unit, read it
[15:03:35] <frallzor> nope
[15:04:42] <frallzor> I wish =)
[15:04:44] <archivist> we dont have enough info to help with power connections you really need a local with a clue
[15:07:20] <archivist> else ask the supplier
[15:07:46] <frallzor> ill know in a minute =)
[15:16:38] <pcw_home> Goslowjimbo: regmap is the same for all configurations, though you probably want the latest
[15:16:40] <pcw_home> in other words the hardware modules always have the same addresses (Stepgens alway start at 0x2000 etc)
[15:16:41] <pcw_home> regardless of specific bit file, bitfiles vary in number and type of modules and pinouts
[15:17:39] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/433275/ in case someone knows, its N + L right?
[15:17:48] <frallzor> unless you have a common in your outlet
[15:19:39] <archivist> frallzor, basic mains wiring is dangerous L = live, N=neutral, and the symbol to the left is safety ground do not call it a common
[15:20:22] <frallzor> but it can only be N+L unless you have ground in the outlet right? =)
[15:20:57] <archivist> yes but all normal countries have a safety ground
[15:21:18] <frallzor> but not all houses =)
[15:21:33] <frallzor> it wasnt really common in the 50-60s
[15:25:48] <Goslowjimbo> pcw_home: THanks. I haven't got it to work yet, and the reg map was the one thing I couldn't verify.
[15:32:38] <frallzor> all done just to figure what is + and - for DC in now =)
[15:37:42] <frallzor> up and running
[15:40:18] <frallzor> the card shows the axis being used but no motors moving
[15:40:23] <frallzor> issue?
[15:42:10] <archivist> take a picture of your wiring, else engage brain and double check your wiring
[15:44:09] <frallzor> i was thinking configissues
[15:44:20] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/433300/
[15:45:38] <frallzor> trying mach3 too
[15:45:42] <frallzor> know how to config it
[15:46:01] <archivist> I cant see a motor board set of wires to make sure you got that right
[15:46:17] <frallzor> ??
[15:47:30] <archivist> motor to board.. picture cropped
[15:50:43] <frallzor> click the pic
[15:50:50] <frallzor> itll help =)
[15:53:59] <micges> pcw_home: hello
[15:55:38] <micges> I have very strange 5i20 problem
[15:55:43] <frallzor> does that work for you archivist?
[15:55:57] <pcw_home> Hello micges
[15:56:50] <micges> pcw_home: http://www.pastebin.ca/1483099
[15:57:22] <micges> line 452
[15:57:23] <archivist> frallzor, looks wrong to me
[15:57:29] <frallzor> how come
[15:57:46] <archivist> frallzor, only wire one till you are sure
[15:58:02] <micges> newest bit file
[15:58:26] <archivist> green and black in the same connection is not as motor diagram
[15:58:44] <frallzor> hmm I just opened the diagram and im pretty sure It wasnt the same now
[15:59:08] <frallzor> i did as the diagram but this file i open now is not the same
[15:59:17] <micges> pcw_home: then after loading 2nd time of that config error shown on line 655
[15:59:46] <micges> and then no mesa hm2 config can be loaded.. :|
[16:00:24] <frallzor> hmm no why shouldnt grn and black be toghether
[16:01:05] <archivist> frallzor, that shorts a motor coil
[16:01:27] <archivist> and drive sends no current through the coils
[16:02:03] <SWPadnos> archivist, I don't think so. all the letters are solid colors and all the primes are striped
[16:02:06] <frallzor> http://www.brundin.biz/images/extra/STM76-185-wire-parallell.jpg how to read this again then?
[16:02:18] <SWPadnos> so B to D is black to green
[16:02:35] <frallzor> there is current since I cant move the shaft at all?
[16:02:38] <SWPadnos> and B' to D' is green/wht to black/wht
[16:03:04] <archivist> check with a meter
[16:04:04] <jepler> that image makes no sense. It shows C' and A' as being connected, but then gives different columns in the table for C' and A'.
[16:04:47] <archivist> best quality chinglish
[16:05:23] <SWPadnos> jepler, there are other images accessible from the stepper motor description page, and they have the identical column headings in the table
[16:05:35] <SWPadnos> so I think that's a "typo" in the table
[16:07:13] <pcw_home> Strange, so reconfig fails...
[16:07:14] <pcw_home> Can you watch the /DONE and /INIT LEDS on the 5I20 as you try the reconfig?
[16:07:16] <pcw_home> the driver should first assert /PROGRAM to reset the FPGA (you may see a short blink of the /INIT LED)
[16:07:17] <pcw_home> this will light the /DONE LED then it should send the bitfile, at the end the /DONE should turn off
[16:09:09] <frallzor> anyone got solution for me? :P
[16:11:34] <frallzor> seems the seller is writing to connect them like the serial-diagram says in a swedish forum...
[16:29:39] <frallzor> its alive
[16:31:42] <frallzor> had to put pin 16 to active low
[16:34:00] <frallzor> suspekting chinadriver doesnt use it =)
[16:35:27] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT wanders off to take a nap...
[16:42:52] <frallzor> now to get it to work in emc too
[16:57:08] <frallzor> got it working in mach3 still no go in emc2
[16:57:14] <frallzor> any suggestions?
[17:14:40] <frallzor> now I got the motors making sounds in emc2 but no movement yet :P
[17:15:07] <archivist> probably timing of the step pulses
[17:15:38] <frallzor> use the 10000 settings?
[17:15:51] <frallzor> that is recommended if settings not known
[17:16:49] <frallzor> should I type 0.8 microsteps in the stepconf if the driver is set to it?
[17:19:50] <frallzor> bah still only sounds =/
[17:23:45] <frallzor> ill play with mach3 for now then :P
[18:28:58] <frallzor> hmm tried everything I can think of now, cant get motors running in emc
[18:29:00] <frallzor> very odd
[18:31:24] <archivist> if pulse timing is too short it wont step
[18:32:19] <frallzor> im using 10000 on every value
[18:32:36] <frallzor> according to the timing-faq
[18:33:25] <frallzor> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
[18:36:47] <BigJohnT> do I have to do something special to upgrade my firmware for my 5i20? I get a warning about stepgen V1 in my dmesg...
[18:45:55] <BigJohnT> frallzor: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html
[18:46:16] <f7ee> Hello again... Where's .deb-files for ubuntu8.04? Gimme a lin k, please, I have no much time to search them.
[18:47:01] <frallzor> great biggie
[18:47:25] <BigJohnT> it's a start
[18:47:40] <frallzor> it works fine i mach3
[18:47:59] <frallzor> so at least its not an issue with the hardware =)
[18:48:14] <BigJohnT> sounds like a misconfiguration issue then
[18:54:02] <frallzor> might be the board itself
[18:54:07] <frallzor> chineseshit =)
[18:54:26] <BigJohnT> driver board?
[18:54:29] <frallzor> yes
[18:55:09] <archivist> does it work with mach3
[18:55:13] <frallzor> yes
[18:55:23] <frallzor> running code right now watching them turn =)
[18:55:42] <frallzor> bipolar parallell as shown before =)
[18:55:50] <archivist> then configure emc properly
[18:56:39] <frallzor> still dont know what the issue is, ports are correct, timings = superguessing
[18:57:51] <frallzor> not really an issue though
[18:58:08] <frallzor> no retrofitkit yet and getting gecko instead on mon/tues
[19:00:00] <SWPadnos> so, what are the chances that this switch I have uses an M19x1.0 thread rather than an M18x1.0?
[19:00:47] <cradek> chances are 100% if it measures M19 and 0% if it measures M18
[19:01:11] <SWPadnos> well, there's the rub
[19:01:29] <SWPadnos> the clearance hole is 19mm, so it's probably not an M19
[19:01:58] <SWPadnos> but then again, the inside diameter of the nut is much larger than the tap drill size I see for M18
[19:02:06] <cradek> still could be, but tight
[19:02:11] <SWPadnos> it's much closer to that needed for an M20
[19:02:15] <SWPadnos> yeah
[19:02:24] <SWPadnos> and at $25 a tap, I don't want to make too many mistakes
[19:02:27] <cradek> sounds like M19 then
[19:02:32] <cradek> what are you trying to do?
[19:03:03] <cradek> yikes, that's a big tap
[19:03:14] <SWPadnos> I want to take this nice pushbutton and stick it in a length of pipe/tube, so it can be used as a very nice hand-held trigger button
[19:03:35] <SWPadnos> if I had CNC'ed my BP, I'd get a threadmill :)
[19:03:37] <cradek> if you had a lathe...
[19:03:52] <cradek> you can easily single point 3/4 inch internal
[19:04:07] <SWPadnos> well, that's true
[19:04:18] <SWPadnos> if I had gotten to CNCing my HNC, I'd also be all set ;)
[19:04:23] <cradek> haha
[19:05:40] <archivist> get on with it!
[19:06:16] <cradek> it's not easy to drive a 3/4 inch tap either
[19:06:42] <cradek> do you have a manual lathe?
[19:07:21] <SWPadnos> no
[19:07:29] <SWPadnos> I have a bridgeport though
[19:07:35] <SWPadnos> that spindle works nicely
[19:08:04] <archivist> 19mm is a common size
[19:08:06] <mozmck> I've driven larger taps with a large tap handle, and I think once with a socket breakout handle
[19:09:03] <SWPadnos> archivist, it seems pretty uncommon so far. its not even listed in the Machiner'y's Handbook tap/clearance drill tables
[19:09:36] <archivist> usa and standards!....
[19:09:37] <mozmck> does it have to be done CNC?
[19:09:42] <SWPadnos> no
[19:09:55] <SWPadnos> I only need to make about 3 of these, so hand tapping is possible
[19:10:12] <SWPadnos> and yeah, I've hand-tapped 3/4" threads into military steel
[19:10:22] <cradek> are you just trying to figure out which tap to buy? why haven't you just measured the outside thread?
[19:10:34] <archivist> too easy
[19:10:36] <SWPadnos> forward 1/2 turn, reverse 1/4 turn, forward 1/2 turn, reverse 1/4 turn .......
[19:10:46] <SWPadnos> it's 19mm across the thread
[19:10:56] <mozmck> yeah, takes a little while...
[19:11:03] <SWPadnos> which is the clearance hole size for a tight fit 18mm thread
[19:11:39] <frallzor> btw is it normal that the motors sound when not running?
[19:11:41] <SWPadnos> mozmck, and then there are the rest breaks and the stopping every once in a while to clean out the chips
[19:11:41] <frallzor> at "idle"
[19:11:52] <SWPadnos> frallzor, not steppers. they should be silent
[19:11:58] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[19:12:13] <SWPadnos> unless your chopper drive switches within your hearing frequency range
[19:12:25] <frallzor> but i think thats a chineseboard issue
[19:12:35] <mozmck> frallzor: my steppers make a high pitched squeal at idle using gecko 201s
[19:12:40] <frallzor> same here
[19:13:00] <frallzor> but i usually hear stuff other ppl dont hear
[19:13:03] <mozmck> the 203 drives are much quieter.
[19:13:08] <frallzor> so might be true what SWPadnos said
[19:13:28] <SWPadnos> I'm surprised about the G201s making noise
[19:13:57] <mozmck> :) I can hear the squeal of a crt across the room, but the 201 drives are much louder and lower frequency
[19:14:20] <SWPadnos> oh. you're one of *those* people :)
[19:14:40] <frallzor> probably my issue is the chinesecard, not really quality, at least this type =)
[19:14:54] <frallzor> plenty of kickass chinese cards out there
[19:15:07] <cradek> sure it's not 3/4-24 or 3/4-27? if you don't have many threads it might be hard to tell
[19:15:09] <frallzor> but this is the one that ppl sell for $30-$60 on ebay =)
[19:15:25] <mozmck> :) my steppers with G201s can be heard by just about anyone though
[19:15:37] <SWPadnos> cradek, I'm pretty sure. I measured 10 threads, and the spec sheet says the clearance hole is 19mm
[19:15:43] <SWPadnos> (but it doesn't say what the thread is)
[19:16:09] <mozmck> clearance hole for the outside of the treads is 19mm?
[19:16:12] <mozmck> threads
[19:16:14] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:16:31] <frallzor> Im getting the G540 kit on monday according to fedex, will be fun to see how it performs compared to chinese =)
[19:16:34] <BigJohnT> 19x1mm?
[19:16:47] <cradek> max major of both those 3/4 threads is .7488 = 19.02 mm
[19:16:55] <SWPadnos> see, there's the question
[19:17:19] <BigJohnT> can you measure the thread pitch?
[19:17:20] <cradek> 19x1 is not in the book unless it's on a "special" page somewhere
[19:17:23] <SWPadnos> cradek, I also lined up all the threads against an M6x1.0 or similar screw, and it looked like a perfect fit
[19:17:28] <SWPadnos> yeah
[19:17:28] <cradek> yeah do that :-)
[19:17:37] <BigJohnT> prox's use 19x1
[19:17:40] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure the pitch is 1mm
[19:17:41] <mozmck> cradek: that's really too small for a clearance hole
[19:17:46] <cradek> ok, so definitely not 24 or 27 then
[19:18:00] <BigJohnT> I have one of those taps at the shop
[19:18:00] <SWPadnos> so there's got to be a tap then, I imagine
[19:18:08] <SWPadnos> could you fax it over?
[19:18:12] <mozmck> email
[19:18:20] <BigJohnT> sure thing when I go to town
[19:18:28] <SWPadnos> you could email it ;)
[19:20:00] <cradek> yuck, I need to grind my lathe's spindle taper or something
[19:22:15] <frallzor> ah yes I have q, got a nice tip to fasten material on a rotarytabo without a chuck?
[19:22:22] <frallzor> *rotarytable
[19:28:05] <cradek> what kind of material?
[19:28:55] <archivist> I use arbors and collets on my rotary
[19:40:40] <frallzor> anyone know of a nice site with free g-codes?
[19:40:46] <frallzor> just want something to play =)
[19:41:05] <frallzor> something that use 3-axis plenty
[19:54:35] <archivist> see the sample emc comes with
[19:55:47] <frallzor> will that run in mach3?
[19:56:27] <archivist> no idea
[19:56:47] <frallzor> or I dont care, no need to bother until i have the real driver =)
[20:04:20] <jimbo655> on the 7i33 card there are the IDX 0-3 inputs how and where do I disable these in EMC2?
[20:07:23] <jimbo655> That is a MESA card 7i33 used with the 5i20
[20:14:51] <SWPadnos> what do you mean by disable them?
[20:15:13] <SWPadnos> you can just not hook them up to the encoders if you lik
[20:15:15] <SWPadnos> e
[20:19:17] <jimbo655> Well here is my problem. I am working on the X axis. I get a joint follow error every time I try to move the joint. The encoder is working as I can see the DRO inside emc2 change as I manualy move the axis. Looking for a clue.
[20:20:08] <SWPadnos> index is unlikely to be the problem
[20:20:38] <jimbo655> OK. Any Idea when to start?
[20:20:44] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure it only has an effect when the motion controller (if it's connected) tells the encoder it wants the position to reset on the next index event
[20:20:45] <jimbo655> Where
[20:21:20] <SWPadnos> what are your following error settings?
[20:21:51] <jimbo655> They are stock. Where are they loacted?
[20:22:03] <SWPadnos> in the ini file
[20:22:26] <SWPadnos> also, how are you moving the joint? jogs, MDI, G-code, by hand ...
[20:23:20] <frallzor> im amazed how precise steppers can be =)
[20:23:55] <SWPadnos> they're great. until they're not.
[20:24:12] <SWPadnos> (ie, don't try to over-work a stepper, it'll fail miserably)
[20:24:21] <frallzor> define overwork
[20:24:32] <frallzor> superspeed? =)
[20:24:38] <SWPadnos> don't attempt to move it too fast for the load
[20:24:39] <jimbo655> I am trying to use the Jog. ferror=.020 min_ferror=.001
[20:25:11] <SWPadnos> jimbo655, are your servos properly tuned?
[20:25:44] <jimbo655> I have not changed them from there original settings. Not sure.
[20:26:10] <SWPadnos> the original settings in a sample config?
[20:26:19] <SWPadnos> or some settings you had before that worked fine?
[20:27:39] <jimbo655> I have never had EMC up on this machine before it is a new setup. The servos were origialy tuned and used with a TNC 145 controller.
[20:28:10] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:28:37] <SWPadnos> what are the jog speed and the max speed of the axis set to?
[20:28:51] <SWPadnos> (the jog speed you were using, and the axis max speed)
[20:29:21] <SWPadnos> the reason I ask is that the following error was probably at MIN_FERROR (0.001), since the machine was not moving or hardly moving
[20:29:38] <SWPadnos> and that's a tight tolerance for a machine that hasn't had its PID or accel/vel set up yet
[20:31:59] <jimbo655> Max acell is set to 4.0. I do not see jog speed...
[20:34:14] <SWPadnos> that's in AXIS or other GUI
[20:34:19] <SWPadnos> it's a slider
[20:34:31] <SWPadnos> there should be a max velocity setting as well
[20:34:39] <PCW_> jimbo655: Another possibility: is the servo loop holding motor position? maybe the feedback is reversed
[20:34:41] <PCW_> = instant ferrror when you start a move
[20:34:41] <SWPadnos> if you have any of these numbers from the old control, they would be useful
[20:35:01] <SWPadnos> PCW_, no, that would be instant servo error when you hit machine on I think
[20:35:15] <SWPadnos> (unless DEADBAND is sufficiently high)
[20:36:10] <PCW_> Since you start with 0 error, it can just sit waiting for a 1 count error before it takes off...
[20:39:01] <PCW_> I think jimbo655 has linear encoders which would almost guarantee this behavior
[20:39:03] <PCW_> because there's friction and backlash (mechanical deadband) between the motor and encoder
[20:39:37] <jimbo655> My motors and and servo amps are in there own closed loop. there is no connection from the servo motors to emc2. I get zero movement prior to the joint error.
[20:39:38] <SWPadnos> ok. if so then the easiest fix is to invert the INPUT_SCALE or OUTPUT_SCALE
[20:40:01] <SWPadnos> are the servo drives closing the position loop or a velocity loop?
[20:40:30] <jimbo655> Velocity.
[20:41:18] <SWPadnos> PCW_ has a valid hypothesis. you can test it.
[20:41:43] <SWPadnos> you can see which way the feedback goes if you move the axis by hand
[20:42:02] <SWPadnos> and you can see which way the axis goes if you command a slow positive value on the motor DAC
[20:42:12] <SWPadnos> you will have to disconnect a few things in HAL to do this
[20:42:46] <PCW_> also maybe set you MIN_FERROR up to .1" or so so you can see whats happening better
[20:42:50] <SWPadnos> (mesa dac-00-value and encoder.00-position)
[20:43:17] <SWPadnos> if you disconnect command and feedback there's no need to change the FERROR :)
[20:44:21] <SWPadnos> jimbo655, there are some basic things you have to do before tuning, like setting up the DAC scaling and encoder scaling
[20:45:10] <PCW_> Right, I was just thinking that just changing MIN_FERROR would allow a better idea of whats really happening (moving the wrong way, moving too slow, not moving at all)
[20:45:24] <SWPadnos> sur
[20:45:26] <SWPadnos> e
[20:49:59] <jimbo655> I have changed Ferror to .100 and I still get 0 movement out of the joint prior to tthe joint error. That is why I was asking about the index input as it may be looking for motor movement and then stoping the system prior to physical movement.
[20:50:25] <jimbo655> The DRo in EMC does not show any movement at all.
[20:52:42] <SWPadnos> so even when the motor moves, EMC sees no change in feedback?
[20:52:49] <SWPadnos> feedback position
[20:53:19] <SWPadnos> you can change FERROR to 1, and change MIN_FERROR to the same value
[20:53:20] <alex_joni> jimbo655: the first thing you need to do is disable the motor amps
[20:53:21] <SWPadnos> or remove it
[20:53:25] <alex_joni> and move the axis by hand
[20:53:44] <alex_joni> if you don't see the position changing in emc2, then you shouldn't bother trying something else
[20:53:52] <SWPadnos> he said that works
[20:54:01] <alex_joni> 23:46 < jimbo655> The DRo in EMC does not show any movement at all.
[20:54:03] <SWPadnos> [16:19:18]<jimbo655>Well here is my problem. I am working on the X axis. I get a joint follow error every time I try to move the joint. The encoder is working as I can see the DRO inside emc2 change as I manualy move the axis. Looking for a clue.
[20:54:37] <alex_joni> does it move right?
[20:54:48] <alex_joni> 1" in the + direction results in +1 in emc2?
[20:55:49] <jimbo655> I am actually working on the Z which was is + up or down?
[20:55:55] <jimbo655> way
[20:56:24] <SWPadnos> up is +Z
[20:56:37] <SWPadnos> if it's the tool that moves
[20:56:44] <alex_joni> Z might be trickier to tune
[20:56:52] <alex_joni> does it have some counterweight?
[20:57:00] <alex_joni> does it fall when not powered?
[20:57:33] <Dallur> would you guys say it's normal that max velocity for an axis is ignored when in world mode and max vel used instead ?
[20:57:46] <alex_joni> Dallur: nontrivkins?
[20:58:09] <Dallur> alex_joni: gantrykins
[20:58:10] <jimbo655> I am working on a bridgeport series 1 Z is the spindle. when I raise the spindel I go positive and when I drop it I go negitive.
[20:58:15] <alex_joni> although world mode would suggest that
[20:58:20] <alex_joni> Dallur: it's known to be broken :/
[20:58:38] <Dallur> alex_joni: ok, just thought I would check, it must have broken some time during 2.3 dev then
[20:58:46] <alex_joni> it always was
[20:58:52] <alex_joni> it's a design thingie
[20:59:10] <alex_joni> maybe 2.2.x sucked in a different way
[20:59:39] <Dallur> alex_joni: :p
[20:59:43] <SWPadnos> oh hey. there's the thread spec. it is 19x1.0mm
[20:59:51] <Dallur> alex_joni: thx
[20:59:58] <SWPadnos> well crap
[21:00:03] <alex_joni> Dallur: sorry I can't give better answers :)
[21:00:34] <Dallur> alex_joni: that's a very good answer, but not a very good result for me
[21:00:57] <Dallur> alex_joni: I'll just have to find another way to regulate the velocity of automatic Z axis adjustments in the plasma config
[21:01:57] <Dallur> alex_joni: It used to be that maxvel for the axis was the max movement speed but now it's the maxvel for the whole thing, moving the Z axis at 10m/s is not a good idea :)
[21:02:27] <SWPadnos> do you have a separate MAX_VEL in the AXIS_2 section of the ini?
[21:02:50] <Dallur> SWPadnos: yup
[21:03:27] <SWPadnos> OK, then I'm stumped
[21:03:32] <SWPadnos> not that it takes much
[21:06:28] <Dallur> on second thought, it migth have been when the stepgen_maxvel was removed
[21:06:47] <jimbo655> If I remove the encoder I also receive a joint error.
[21:07:10] <Dallur> so that the maxvel values were not used but when the stepgen_maxvel for the axis was removed it was no longer limited
[21:09:02] <Dallur> any thoughts on that alex_joni ?
[21:11:47] <PCW_> jimbo655 Looks to me like you are not actually driving the amps for some reason
[21:11:48] <PCW_> I would either take SWPadnos advice, and try driving a volt or so out of the DACs and see if you get motion
[21:11:50] <PCW_> (hand on the Estop or power) or disconnect the amps and move the axis by hand and see if the 7I33s are outputiing
[21:11:52] <PCW_> a voltage that varies with position...
[21:14:57] <jimbo655> I am able to mov e the X axis about .250 prior to receiving a joint error. The Y will move about .005 prior to the joint error. I do not have scales on these two yet as one is bad and I am fixing the other. so I know that I am able to move the joints with EMC2.
[21:15:12] <Dallur> alex_joni: do you know of any other way to limit the max velocity of a particular axis without affecting the other axis ?
[21:16:19] <jimbo655> Is there a timeout value that times out the joint if you do not see movement?
[21:22:26] <PCW_> jimbo655 no, just the following error, The Hostmot2 configuration has a watchdog, but its not motion related
[21:23:48] <alex_joni> Dallur: not really.. sorry
[21:23:56] <alex_joni> except maybe using a limit3 component
[21:24:04] <alex_joni> but doing that will get it out of sync with the others
[21:26:34] <Dallur> alex_joni: yeah, I don't think that's a good idea, soft limits and such would go out of sync
[21:27:25] <alex_joni> Dallur: maybe you can ix it for your case
[21:27:36] <alex_joni> it's a bit easier than the general nontrivkins case
[21:27:37] <PCW_> jimbo655: If the axis hold position and you can move them back and forth a small amount with EMC
[21:27:38] <PCW_> then the feedback is correct and you may just need to tune EMCs PID loop
[21:27:41] <alex_joni> s/ix/fix/
[21:28:39] <Dallur> alex_joni: so this "bug" is kinematic specific and therefor does not affect stepperkins and such ?
[21:29:04] <SWPadnos> jimbo655, you need to make sure that the output from EMC will actually move the motors, and also that it will move in the correct direction (in this case, that just means "the same way the feedback goes")
[21:29:21] <Dallur> alex_joni: in my case since it's just a gantry it's not really any different than regular steppers
[21:29:29] <SWPadnos> how far the other axes move and whether they error is irrelevant to testing the Z axis you're working on
[22:07:01] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[22:08:00] <tom3p> what was the spindle jmkasunich bought? any links?
[22:23:57] <alex_joni> Dallur: that's my guess
[22:24:25] <alex_joni> check what kind of kinematics gantrykins exports
[22:24:37] <alex_joni> maybe make it KINEMATICS_IDENTITY, maybe it works then ;)
[22:32:33] <Dallur> alex_joni: I will look into it, for the moment I'll just use a dev checkout from last summer (with max_stepvel) but when I have time i'll try to figure it out
[22:46:02] <frallzor> http://www.vimeo.com/5442117 i was bored =P
[22:48:29] <tom3p> jmkasunich's spindle... wolfgang engineering, ebay
[22:49:52] <tom3p> how does hp or kw relate to tool diameter?
[22:50:40] <archivist> cutting force , metal and speed etc
[22:51:53] <tom3p> yep, but of what use is 1/4hp spindle motor & vfd ? what diameter tools would it be suited to for mile steel cutting? ( or suitable at all ?)
[22:52:38] <archivist> should easily handle 12mm
[22:52:55] <archivist> probably more
[22:53:00] <tom3p> tiny machine tool , like 150x150x50 travels, unknown rpm still.
[22:53:02] <tom3p> ooh, 12mm is usefull, thx
[22:53:36] <archivist> all depends on feed rate
[22:55:29] <archivist> I have 1/3rd hp and a small machine vfd also
[22:56:39] <jimbo655> When I power up now emc2 gives me a joint error after a few seconds. The Z axis dro increments. I have put in new config files with no change.
[22:57:12] <jimbo655> Is emc2 possesed.......
[22:58:12] <archivist> its possesed of the power to do the right thing if used correctly
[22:59:29] <tom3p> when it doesnt make sense, you might not be seeing what you're thinking... like... the files you edited are not the files being used... maybe in the wrong place
[23:00:09] <jimbo655> I am going to reinstall and start over......
[23:00:30] <archivist> reinstall is usually not the right answer
[23:03:32] <jimbo655> All I did was change some wiring and now it want's to run itself.... It does not make sense. I renamed and recreated all the files in the ~home/emc2/config/m5i20 directory
[23:03:55] <tom3p> today i had a trunnion table with a cylinder square on it , the cyl square showed Z travel ran out .0015" over 100mm tall cyl... was it the Z axis? was it the plane of the B axis bearings? it turned out the trunnion centerline was not parallel to X
[23:05:34] <archivist> tom3p, I have to measure mine one day, I know mine is out a bit
[23:06:40] <archivist> jimbo655, change small amounts at a time and keep copies of edited files so you can go back a step
[23:07:07] <tom3p> i'd love to have a mini one ( this has a 450lb counterweight! and a 4.5kw A motor ). brand new Matsumoto, no defect, its the millwrights problem ( and mine :(
[23:12:40] <tom3p> archivist: where did you get your spindle & vfd? ( is the motor spindle chuck a single device?)
[23:13:43] <archivist> the spindle is a lathe headstock
[23:13:59] <archivist> and motor hung onto it
[23:15:37] <archivist> base of the lathe became the column added ball slides to it to remount headstock
[23:16:56] <archivist> leadscrew moved to lift the headstock, ... look at lumps with an open mind
[23:36:28] <jimbo655> Why would EMC2 try to change the relative position on the Z axis after I press the power button? is there a place where EMC stores temp files/