#emc | Logs for 2009-07-01

[00:01:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: LOL that's pretty funny,... you tell me to stop eating beans and then you say ... oh look dinner! LOL
[00:04:02] <Jymmm> define attrition: wearing or grinding down by friction ???
[00:04:35] <Jymmm> sorrow for sin arising from fear of damnation
[00:14:18] <Jymmm> Ok, I bought a new 20" box fan yesterday. It said it was 3885 CFM. But it doesn't feel like it's as strong as another 2-" box fan that I have. Now, I know that there's CFM, which is just volume of air being moved, But in respect to cooling, does pressure have a significant factor too? I would *think* so (like a good patton 'whole house' fan), but I dont know what that is or would be. Any ideas on how to test?
[01:17:38] <John_F_> I was talking to a coworker today who mentioned that he wanted to retrofit a machine with MACH3. So I never really condidered MAC3 because I like the open source and the cool comunity of developers but, Dare I ask? What things does EMC2 do that MACH3 dosn't?
[01:23:00] <skunkworks> true closed loop - rigid tapping - spring fresh scent
[01:23:15] <cradek> cuts usable threads on a lathe
[01:23:23] <cradek> kinematics machines (5 axis etc)
[01:23:41] <cradek> keeps working even if microsoft doesn't like it or care
[01:24:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: has a really good true one that mach just hides
[01:24:19] <cradek> realtime performance that always gives a usable pulse train (assuming steppers)
[01:24:32] <skunkworks> jog wheels that feel like they are hooked right to the machine (paraphrased quote from the list)
[01:24:34] <cradek> for a real servo machine with analog amps, there's no comparison - mach just can't do it
[01:24:45] <Jymmm> cradek: Hey, what are you wrapping in plastic?
[01:25:05] <Jymmm> 3ft diameter
[01:25:16] <cradek> for simple xyz stepper machines they're probably more closely matched
[01:25:28] <cradek> Jymmm: my lathe's splash guard
[01:25:42] <Jymmm> cradek: Ah, ok.... hows it coming?
[01:25:52] <cradek> progress is 0%
[01:25:59] <Jymmm> how come?
[01:25:59] <cradek> too many other things going on
[01:26:15] <Jymmm> it only take a few minutes
[01:26:21] <Jymmm> ok maybe an hour
[01:26:31] <cradek> I have to figure out what I need, get it, install it
[01:26:42] <cradek> I'll do it one of these days
[01:26:51] <Jymmm> famous last words
[01:27:05] <cradek> things to fix, parts to make, day job, ...
[01:27:22] <Jymmm> cradek: till the day you die... no excuse!
[01:27:42] <skunkworks> cradek: is your website down?
[01:27:43] <cradek> the more things I haven't gotten done when I die, the more I win
[01:28:01] <cradek> skunkworks: yes, on and off - that's one thing I'm working on
[01:28:04] <Jymmm> cradek: Well, do oyu have somethng to form it on?
[01:28:07] <cradek> "things to fix" category
[01:28:17] <dmess> works for me.. : )
[01:28:20] <cradek> Jymmm: the lathe shield frame thingy itself
[01:28:23] <Jymmm> cradek: screw the honeydew list
[01:28:39] <Jymmm> cradek: Oh, so you actually have a full frame with cross members?
[01:28:48] <cradek> sorta - it's a sliding deal
[01:28:53] <cradek> let me see if I can find a photo somewhere
[01:28:57] <Jymmm> can you remove it ?
[01:29:00] <dmess> i got no more "honeydewlist"
[01:29:12] <cradek> http://www.cnccontrolsolutions.com/optomizedpictures/HNC205.jpg
[01:29:24] <cradek> I think this is the same machine
[01:29:30] <Jymmm> yeah, ok
[01:29:34] <cradek> I'm sure it is removable somehow
[01:29:49] <Jymmm> cradek: got any 1/4" x 1 or 2" slats?
[01:29:53] <Jymmm> wooden
[01:30:00] <Jymmm> yard sticks?
[01:30:07] <cradek> probably
[01:30:15] <cradek> where are you? you could come do it :-)
[01:30:32] <skunkworks> heh - cool.
[01:30:50] <Jymmm> cradek: sure, no problem.... I'll bring my router for you to mill the new parts, and I'mm form your shield
[01:30:59] <Jymmm> s/i'mm/i'll/
[01:31:07] <cradek> heh, ok
[01:31:11] <cradek> what does it need?
[01:31:18] <Jymmm> cradek: Yes.
[01:31:56] <Jymmm> cradek: I guess you don't have a strip heater, huh?
[01:33:27] <Jymmm> cradek: http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=169
[01:34:17] <cradek> brb
[01:34:32] <Jymmm> cradek: Since you already have a form fold to work with.... a strip heater seems easiest to have uniform heat
[01:35:37] <Jymmm> cradek: But I think it's a two man job.... one to hold the heater, the other to bend and hold the sheet as it softens
[01:41:06] <Jymmm> Oh this is so wrong... http://www.tapplastics.com/info/video_detail.php?vid=6&format=windowsmedia& The ground that is
[01:42:05] <Jymmm> cradek: http://www.tapplastics.com/info/video_detail.php?vid=7&format=quicktime&
[02:07:16] <sed_> I did my best to convert the emc.ini from emc1 to the stg.ini in emc2, I got the software up and not crashing, how do I work with HAL at this point?
[02:08:01] <SWPadnos> what are you trying to do?
[02:09:27] <sed_> upgrage from emc1 to 2
[02:10:18] <sed_> I installed emc2 and chose my stg card and edited the stg.ini to be like the emc.ini to the best of my ability
[02:11:22] <sed_> the stg.ini file took most every setting the emc.ini had with the exception of a few that didt exist
[02:11:32] <sed_> and one or 2 that the syntax had changed
[02:12:05] <SWPadnos> there are several additional features
[02:12:22] <SWPadnos> and some common things have changed, like INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE
[02:12:29] <sed_> I skiped over what wasnt familiar and left it default
[02:13:01] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with the STG configs or hardware
[02:13:13] <sed_> INPUT_SCALE = 50800
[02:13:19] <sed_> that was emc1
[02:13:19] <SWPadnos> I can help with HAL setup, but you have to know what you want to do :)
[02:13:30] <SWPadnos> ok, that's probably still supposed to be the same
[02:13:34] <sed_> Ill give it a shot, what the first step?
[02:13:37] <SWPadnos> and OUTPUT_SCALE?
[02:13:48] <sed_> OUTPUT_SCALE = 1.000 0.000
[02:13:49] <SWPadnos> the first step would be to tell me what it is you're trying to do ;)
[02:14:00] <sed_> output scale on emc2 was just 1.000
[02:14:09] <sed_> didnt like the second set of numbers
[02:14:18] <SWPadnos> yep, there's no offset in emc2 - that's done differently
[02:14:25] <sed_> at this point set up hal I guess
[02:14:39] <sed_> the sofware runs, I debuged the stg.ini and thats where Im at
[02:15:10] <sed_> I have re-installed emc1 on the other driver several times, and all I have needed is the emc.ini
[02:15:18] <sed_> I guess with hal that is differant
[02:15:19] <SWPadnos> well - as I said, I don't know your hardware at all (either the STG or what you have connected to it), so I don't know how the config has to change ...
[02:15:26] <SWPadnos> yes, it's somewhat different
[02:15:45] <SWPadnos> there's more control over what the I/Os do and where they connect
[02:15:56] <sed_> the last section of the emc.ini is not in the stg.ini
[02:16:16] <SWPadnos> all the IO indexes?
[02:16:19] <sed_> section for main IO controller parameters
[02:16:25] <sed_> [EMCIO]
[02:16:26] <SWPadnos> right, that's all done in HAL
[02:16:26] <sed_> yes
[02:16:43] <sed_> is the old info useful in setting up hal?
[02:17:25] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I'm sure it is, but I'm not sure exactly how. I don't know if the old index numbers translate to the same io numbers in HAL
[02:17:34] <SWPadnos> I sure hope so, since that would make it a lot easier :)
[02:17:43] <sed_> heh yea
[02:17:48] <jmkasunich> the old info will tell you how you had things connected (but you'll have to know what those numbers meant in EMC1)
[02:17:50] <Jymmm> emc1 had HAL ?
[02:17:54] <SWPadnos> no
[02:18:02] <Jymmm> I thought that was what all the commotion was about?
[02:18:05] <Jymmm> ok
[02:18:06] <SWPadnos> the IO connections are in the file stg_io.hal
[02:18:13] <Jymmm> oh
[02:18:15] <jmkasunich> emc2+hal will almost certainly allow you do do any connections that emc1 could do, but the approach is different
[02:18:52] <sed_> can I paste in a pm... about 15 lines...
[02:19:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: (encore) LOL that's pretty funny,... you tell me to stop eating beans and then you say ... oh look dinner! LOL
[02:19:14] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah - that was a good one (two) huh? :)
[02:19:22] <Jymmm> <rim shot>
[02:19:30] <jmkasunich> 15 lines of what? emc1 config info for STG? I certainly won't know what that means
[02:19:39] <Jymmm> damn... still stinks in here
[02:19:50] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.ca/
[02:19:50] <jmkasunich> BTW, the best way to paste such stuff is something like pastebin.ca, then post the URL here
[02:19:57] <Jymmm> http://codepa.org
[02:20:03] <sed_> k
[02:20:04] <Jymmm> http://codepad.org
[02:20:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: How can you read anything on pastebin with the color pallete they use?
[02:20:51] <SWPadnos> I have a CRT
[02:20:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: So do I
[02:21:02] <SWPadnos> I'm not blind
[02:21:06] <Jymmm> Neither am I
[02:21:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:21:16] <sed_> http://pastebin.ca/1480272
[02:21:17] <SWPadnos> I studied Latin
[02:21:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I speak Swahili - top that biotch!
[02:22:12] <SWPadnos> sed_, I don't know which polarity means normal and which is inverted
[02:22:34] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I just watched Star Trek (TOS) too, top that!
[02:23:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm watching Ice Age 3
[02:23:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you know, the one that's being released TOMORROW
[02:23:52] <Jymmm> to a theater near you
[02:24:01] <SWPadnos> sed_, for each physical input pin, there are two "HAL pins" you can use. one is normal, the other is inverted (called, not coincidentally, <the pin name> and <the pin name>-invert)
[02:24:07] <sed_> so is settuip hal just editing the stg_io.hal ?
[02:24:16] <SWPadnos> yeah, for the most part
[02:24:43] <SWPadnos> you may have to think about it a bit if you have a complex E-Stop system or you use classicladder
[02:24:52] <SWPadnos> (that was available in EMC1, wasn't it?)
[02:25:10] <sed_> dont know, didnt set up emc1
[02:25:29] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:26:04] <sed_> I will get the person that built the machine and hack at that file
[02:26:17] <sed_> it looks fairly straight forward
[02:26:20] <sed_> is that all?
[02:27:28] <SWPadnos> it should be, but it depends on how customized the EMC1 install was
[02:27:43] <SWPadnos> hopefully they didn't write any custom software or anything :)
[02:28:40] <SWPadnos> read the HAL manual so you can see how to work with HAL (halcmd for messing with the state of things, halmeter and halscope for testing and monitoring changes ...)
[02:28:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Oh, I thought you used pastebin.com - that one is icky
[02:28:54] <SWPadnos> no, .ca seems faster and has better uptime
[02:29:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: codepad.org doens't have the sidebar - nicer when not full screen
[02:29:50] <Jymmm> and it will actually execute code
[02:30:05] <SWPadnos> sed_, I don't know how the MIN and MAX VOLTS_PER_RPM translate into EMC2
[02:30:52] <SWPadnos> the way it should probably be done is to make the output scale such that applying a 1 (the number one, that is) to the DAC pin in HAL results in 1 IPS (or mm/s) velocity on the motors
[02:39:29] <SWPadnos> oh hmmm. that EMCIO section uses a parallel port for I/O
[02:41:40] <eric_unterhause1> any more recent opinions on the D945GCLF2 Atom 330 Intel 945GC Mini ITX Motherboard for EMC?
[02:49:35] <eric_unterhause1> the venerable Goal 3 seems to finally be gone off of Newegg
[02:50:10] <SWPadnos> and we had a report of it not working so well earlier today
[02:50:13] <SWPadnos> USB issues
[02:50:22] <Jymmm> ?
[02:50:35] <Jymmm> what usb issues?
[02:50:41] <SWPadnos> devices powering up for a few seconds then dying
[02:50:48] <SWPadnos> including keyboards/mice
[02:50:50] <Jymmm> devices?
[02:50:53] <Jymmm> oh
[02:50:59] <Jymmm> bad mobo?
[02:51:13] <Jymmm> PEBKAC?
[02:51:13] <SWPadnos> sounds like it, but I don't know
[02:51:18] <SWPadnos> no, probably not
[02:51:32] <Jymmm> who?
[02:51:37] <SWPadnos> geo01005 I think
[02:51:48] <Jymmm> maybe jmkasunich could confirm
[02:51:52] <Jymmm> doens't he have one?
[02:51:58] <SWPadnos> he doesn't have a GOAL3
[02:52:00] <eric_unterhause1> SWP does
[02:52:02] <SWPadnos> that's me and skunkworks
[02:52:08] <eric_unterhause1> JMK has the atom
[02:52:13] <Jymmm> wth is a goal 3?
[02:52:18] <eric_unterhause1> amd
[02:52:22] <Jymmm> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121359
[02:52:23] <SWPadnos> it's an ECS cheapo motherboard
[02:52:30] <Jymmm> oh, fsck emc
[02:52:36] <Jymmm> err ECS
[02:53:02] <SWPadnos> yes, the D945GCLF2 is the one jmkasunich and I have, and maybe even skunkworks too
[02:53:15] <eric_unterhause1> are you using it with emc?
[02:53:24] <SWPadnos> not at the moment
[02:53:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 6" x 6" ?
[02:54:03] <eric_unterhause1> it's pretty small
[02:54:04] <SWPadnos> 6.7x6.7
[02:54:12] <eric_unterhause1> not small enough to fit in our robots :(
[02:54:28] <SWPadnos> tiny by computer standards, huge by microcontroller standards
[02:54:52] <Jymmm> With the S-Video , could be a nice TVPC
[02:55:06] <Jymmm> on board serail header?
[02:55:28] <SWPadnos> it's got an actual serial port too
[02:55:33] <SWPadnos> plus a header-based one
[02:55:43] <Jymmm> cool bean... good for IR
[02:55:58] <SWPadnos> hmmm. nope, looks like only one
[02:56:36] <Jymmm> atom 330 = dual?
[02:56:57] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:57:06] <SWPadnos> dual 1.6 GHz I think
[02:57:17] <Jymmm> dman max ram 2GB
[02:57:35] <Jymmm> 4 rear and 4 onboard USB
[02:57:42] <Jymmm> gigabit
[02:57:46] <SWPadnos> yep. well aware of the USB specs ;)
[02:58:18] <Jymmm> ever find a nice case?
[02:58:36] <SWPadnos> for some values of nice, yes
[02:58:51] <SWPadnos> but my nice case wouldn't be so great for a HTPC
[02:58:56] <SWPadnos> no CD-ROM bay
[02:59:42] <Jymmm> htpc?
[02:59:51] <SWPadnos> home theater PC
[03:00:14] <Jymmm> I never said HT, I said TV
[03:00:33] <SWPadnos> ok, whatever you want
[03:00:46] <Jymmm> no hdmi on it, just s-video
[03:00:51] <SWPadnos> I figured something attached to a TV should probably play discs in addition to whatever else
[03:00:55] <eric_unterhause1> hdmi would be nice
[03:00:56] <SWPadnos> I said HT, not HD
[03:01:14] <Jymmm> netyflix, shut your pie hole
[03:01:30] <eric_unterhause1> netyflix ok over vga?
[03:01:45] <Jymmm> vga to hdmi?
[03:01:53] <eric_unterhause1> my tv has vga
[03:01:59] <Jymmm> really?
[03:02:01] <eric_unterhause1> ya
[03:02:06] <Jymmm> old crt?
[03:02:15] <eric_unterhause1> no, new samsung 46"
[03:02:27] <Jymmm> ah
[03:02:29] <eric_unterhause1> set up this computer on there
[03:02:48] <Jymmm> thn you dont nee svideo
[03:03:15] <Jymmm> i need a one handed kybd
[03:03:22] <eric_unterhause1> Jymmm: do you watch movies on netflix over internet?
[03:03:30] <Jymmm> yep
[03:03:33] <Jymmm> on the tv
[03:04:12] <Jymmm> I now have DTV on the lan now too
[03:04:12] <eric_unterhause1> I think I could ruin my life with that service :)
[03:04:49] <Jymmm> nah
[03:05:30] <Jymmm> you can pause the movie and even watxh on another computer any time
[03:06:50] <eric_unterhause1> sounds good, we have blockbuster's netflix clone
[03:06:55] <Jymmm> it even remembers where you were and asks if you want to continue where you left off or start from the beginning
[03:07:07] <Jymmm> fsck blockbuster POS
[03:07:16] <Jymmm> slow ass bastidges
[03:07:27] <eric_unterhause1> I agree, plus I want to watch on the internet
[03:08:01] <Jymmm> You'll need either their $100 STB, or a PC/Mac
[03:08:07] <Jymmm> no linux support
[03:09:19] <eric_unterhause1> nvm then :)
[03:09:33] <Jymmm> just install XP as a VM
[03:10:06] <Jymmm> that's actually how they told MAc users to watch before it was supported directly
[03:18:25] <Jymmm> eric_unterhause1: FWIW... I've been on the hospital's wifi and watched movies.
[03:18:51] <eric_unterhause1> good to know, can patients do that?
[03:19:09] <Jymmm> Many hospitals have free wifi
[03:19:29] <Jymmm> doctors are still never on time =)
[03:22:52] <Jymmm> eric_unterhause1: I guess if the patients are conscious and not blind or deaf =)
[04:51:46] <LawrenceG> SWPadnos, Jymmm http://ncix.com/products/?sku=28232&vpn=MI-100&manufacture=Apex Computer Technology box I used with an atom board
[04:53:02] <LawrenceG> room for 1 5" device(DVD), 1 3.5" device(HD)
[04:53:42] <Jymmm> Sad that it's $10 less than the mobo and cpu
[04:53:48] <LawrenceG> that link is Cdn$
[04:54:37] <LawrenceG> includes power supply so its not bad, but it is tiny about like a shoe box.. mostly empty
[04:54:52] <Jymmm> internal PS ?
[04:55:04] <LawrenceG> yes.. a 250w
[04:55:31] <LawrenceG> mounts above the cpu board in the back of the case
[04:55:33] <Jymmm> ok, $20 more than the mobo.cpu =)
[04:56:06] <Jymmm> it's a shoeboc
[04:56:08] <Jymmm> x
[04:57:25] <Jymmm> does the optical drive cover spring loaded?
[04:57:27] <LawrenceG> http://ncix.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=33303 was the board.... you can scale to US prices
[04:57:50] <LawrenceG> yes... it flips down when the tray comes out
[04:57:59] <Jymmm> ah
[04:58:27] <LawrenceG> and a little door opens on the RHS that has audio and 2 USB connections
[04:58:52] <LawrenceG> the rest is on the back on the cpu card
[04:59:48] <Jymmm> http://www.ncixus.com/products/23679/DM-317/Apex%20Computer%20Technology/
[04:59:59] <LawrenceG> ncix has a fathers day special on the box, so I built it up for the neighbours
[05:01:30] <LawrenceG> http://www.ncixus.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=33303 $78US vs $95Cdn
[05:06:05] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: cool =)
[05:07:50] <LawrenceG> I did run the latency test on it before I gave it away.... just under 20us
[05:08:21] <Jymmm> for how long?
[05:08:36] <Jymmm> I think jmkasunich did too
[05:09:20] <LawrenceG> about 20 minutes of bashing on it... it seems very responsive, I couldnt really tell it was only a 1.6ghz processor
[05:09:56] <LawrenceG> much better than a 3ghz P4 my wife is using with ubuntu
[05:10:46] <LawrenceG> the atom looks like a winner... very well integrated and low power
[05:11:08] <Jymmm> yeah, I like my netbook too
[05:12:34] <LawrenceG> ubuntu 9.04 just installed and ran, no driver fights at all... figuring out how to get the jre plugin into the browser took the most head scratching until I found the right instructions
[05:14:48] <LawrenceG> oh ya... getting skype to work (finding the right audio devices) was also a PITA
[05:15:46] <LawrenceG> a lot of time talking to the test call lady.... can ya hear me now????
[05:18:05] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, goodnight... off to bed
[05:34:48] <Jymmm> dmess: Sounds like you got a divorce or something?
[06:30:28] <micges> good morning
[06:36:54] <micges1> micges1 is now known as micges_plasma
[09:29:48] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[12:33:46] <pjm> archivist ebay 270413345930 - just down the road for me, although i think my missus would bury me under it!
[12:34:38] <archivist> oo worth it :)
[12:35:21] <archivist> we went to a couple of dealers on monday (boss looking for a manual Hardinge)
[12:35:55] <skunkworks_> archivist: is your boss staying in business?
[12:36:14] <archivist> he want to work from home
[12:36:40] <archivist> sorta retiring, useless really
[12:37:02] <archivist> I wonder if he read the logs :)
[12:38:31] <alex_joni> he will surely after we bash.org it ;)
[12:38:38] <archivist> hehe
[12:39:18] <archivist> but it sure leaves me in an awkward position
[12:41:09] <skunkworks_> ;)
[12:42:53] <archivist> pjm, looks like he wants offers for the bits, sham auction
[12:43:06] <pjm> ahh
[12:44:01] <archivist> but still make an offer and see if er indoors will allow you to live
[12:44:21] <pjm> hahh probably unlikely, she moans like a bloody drain about my 'crap' as it is
[12:44:53] <archivist> a man has to have his hobbies :)
[12:45:15] <pjm> yeah exactly, she thinks she is my #1 hobby!
[12:45:36] <anonimasu> haha
[12:46:43] <pjm> certainly is the most expensive
[12:47:20] <pjm> anyway, i should probably get one of the MESA cards next for my machine, its reaching the limits of the parport speed
[12:47:46] <archivist> I need to go that way soon
[12:47:53] <skunkworks_> pjm: how is the machine running?
[12:48:03] <archivist> just jacket up the column yesterday
[12:48:10] <archivist> jacked
[12:48:34] <archivist> need to add XY travel next
[12:49:28] <pjm> skunkworks everything is almost perfect.... just need faster inputs for spindle encoder
[12:49:52] <pjm> plus it might be nice to hand off step generation to the 7i43 card
[12:50:19] <pjm> i need to treat the machine to some new X / Y leadscrews also, just to get rid of the last amounts of slop
[12:50:57] <pjm> as i did notice a small error the other day after touching off, once u set the new touch off position, the motor seems to turn by the backlash amount
[12:51:08] <pjm> but i need to re-test this to make sure it wasnt user error on my part
[12:51:09] <archivist> screw and rails for XY for me, slop and travel limits
[12:51:52] <archivist> Im still having to move the rotaries around the table to get jobs to fit
[12:53:07] <pjm> btw is there a reasonably priced outlet in uk for small (<M3) taps?
[12:54:25] <archivist> try J&L
[12:54:35] <skunkworks_> Neat
[12:55:45] <pjm> skunkworks the rigid tapping is working perfectly, not broken a tap yet
[12:55:56] <pjm> even tho i'm holding them in a chuck!!!
[12:56:04] <pjm> (crappy i know)
[12:56:21] <skunkworks_> pjm: I go with 'what ever works'
[12:56:43] <pjm> i will get around to using proper collets
[12:56:56] <pjm> but until i have a tool length detector etc, i just put up with what i havea
[12:57:44] <archivist> Im using cheapo morse taper collets at the moment
[12:58:18] <pjm> ah the ones that go in the taper then directly clamp the tool, yeah i looked at those on ebay, thougth about getting a metric set
[12:59:13] <archivist> chronos
[12:59:57] <pjm> ah ok i will look
[13:00:12] <archivist> buggers claim certain threads in them but Im forever changing 10mm to whit to clamp them
[13:00:47] <archivist> chronos sell on fleabay at about the same price
[13:01:40] <archivist> I got some of my collets from are eurotrade and some are english sizes
[13:01:49] <archivist> are/arc
[13:02:17] <archivist> tool length and changing is a pain !
[13:03:23] <skunkworks_> matt!
[13:03:51] <mshaver> hey!
[13:04:05] <mshaver> know anything about lathe threading?
[13:05:35] <mshaver> i.e. if you're in diameter mode (rather than radius), does it affect the i, j, or k values (double them)?
[13:18:00] <skunkworks_> Sorry - no :) chris would be the one to ask I think
[13:19:44] <SWPadnos> I bet a few minutes with a sim config could tell you
[13:20:30] <archivist> or a dti on the tool post cutting air
[13:40:25] <jepler> mshaver: do the docs not say?
[13:41:50] <jepler> mmmm maybe they don't
[13:45:06] <jepler> mshaver: I think this program shows that I is the same regardless of G7/G8: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/arc-diameter.ngc
[14:03:08] <mshaver> SWPadnos: yes, but I was hoping someone would "just know"
[14:03:27] <mshaver> archivist: no machine here
[14:03:40] <SWPadnos> oh. well of course someone does, but he's (they're) not here :)
[14:03:46] <mshaver> jepler: Thanks!
[14:03:54] <mshaver> SWPadnos: Ha
[14:04:07] <mshaver> back in a bit
[14:38:30] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlD_6p1aV5E
[14:41:17] <SWPadnos> that's a lot of chips considering the apparent lack of motion of the cutter/workpiece
[14:42:11] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work can't wait for the ups guy to get here with my FX 1800 tomorrow this video card sucks
[15:40:10] <mozmck_work> test
[15:40:29] <archivist> fail
[15:40:57] <skunkworks_> are you supposed to be on irc at work? Hmmm? ;)
[15:41:11] <mozmck_work> yep!
[15:41:52] <archivist> work wozzat?
[15:41:58] <skunkworks_> mozmck_work: conviced your boss to go emc?
[15:42:12] <skunkworks_> convinced
[15:42:18] <mozmck_work> to a degree, yes.
[15:42:57] <mozmck_work> he wants to get all our stuff working with it as we get time
[15:44:36] <skunkworks_> neat
[15:45:22] <mozmck_work> yeah, I've got my router table at home running emc2 2.3.1 now and am cutting out banjo rim pieces with it.
[15:45:28] <mozmck_work> works well.
[15:46:26] <cradek> mozmck_work: do you play banjo?
[15:48:10] <cradek> I will someday after I finish mastering (hahaha) all the other things I already play
[15:48:39] <mozmck_work> cradek: yes, since I was about 13 (20 years ago!)
[15:48:47] <cradek> slick
[15:48:54] <mozmck_work> I play guitar some, and piano
[15:48:59] <cradek> they have a neat sound
[15:49:13] <mozmck_work> yep, especially good ones.
[15:49:56] <cradek> I play guitar/piano too, and maybe fiddle (actually trained in classical violin) - I don't know fiddle technique but would like to learn it.
[15:50:08] <cradek> I like bluegrass/folk more than classical nowadays.
[15:50:41] <cradek> a friend plays mandolin some - we play together often
[15:51:31] <mozmck_work> neat! I like classical and bluegrass. my brothers play mandolin and guitar and fiddle.
[15:52:01] <mozmck_work> someday before long I hope to finish building a couple of mandolins I started
[15:52:10] <skunkworks_> steve martin was on the prarie home companion last weekend playing the banjo - he is really good.
[15:52:22] <cradek> maybe I will let you know when it's time for me to buy a banjo :-)
[15:52:25] <mozmck_work> yes he is
[15:52:55] <mozmck_work> :-) I could probably set you up if I have time. it's an evening and weekend thing nowadays
[15:53:03] <mozmck_work> used to be full time
[15:53:29] <mozmck_work> I let my website go because I don't have time to take on any new work right now.
[15:53:43] <cradek> skunkworks_: he seems good but does he play anything other than foggy mountain breakdown?
[15:54:06] <mozmck_work> I think he used to play professionaly a long time ago
[15:54:49] <skunkworks_> he has a new cd out.. Other than that - I don't know
[15:54:58] <mozmck_work> have you heard Bela Fleck playing classical on the banjo? amazing stuff...
[15:56:11] <cradek> must not watch youtube videos all day at work...
[15:56:21] <skunkworks_> http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/www_publicradio/tools/media_player/popup.php?name=phc/2009/06/27/phc_20090627_64&starttime=00:29:15.0&endtime=00:32:45.0
[15:57:05] <mozmck_work> :) I have the cd at home - Perpetual Motion. I better get off and concentrate on programming for now.
[16:47:08] <skunkworks_> heh - I just thought of something. Our big gantry is just a little out of square. I should just fix that in emc.
[16:48:05] <archivist> but then you need to understand the evil maths
[16:49:02] <archivist> I had contemplated that for my 5 axis too....but maffs....
[16:49:29] <archivist> and properly quantifying the errors
[16:49:48] <cradek> yeah measuring it...
[16:50:29] <cradek> drill and bore four holes, measure the diagonals?
[16:50:42] <archivist> I can do some of the measurements but the building is not stable enough
[16:50:43] <cradek> if it's perfectly out of square I think you may only need that measurement
[16:51:08] <cradek> four holes that are supposedly in a square, I mean
[16:51:56] <toastatwork> truf
[16:52:02] <archivist> I have one of the books on machine measurement and I think the are more errors than 4 holes would show
[16:52:18] <cradek> archivist: I'm not surprised :-)
[16:52:22] <toastatwork> there are more errors, but if you're pretending it's a constant slope, two holes will get it
[16:52:33] <toastatwork> otherwise you need to employ shenanigans
[16:52:41] <toastatwork> er, four holes
[16:52:51] <toastatwork> or milling a square.
[16:53:02] <toastatwork> which can be easier to measure
[16:53:37] <archivist> that may test xy but I know my column and spindle are out
[16:53:42] <toastatwork> oh.
[16:53:53] <cradek> yeah there are many unsquares possible
[16:54:24] <archivist> and b to Y etc
[16:54:40] <cradek> you should brainstorm with stuart s
[16:54:56] <archivist> I read his posts often
[16:55:09] <archivist> trying to get it to sink in
[16:55:23] <cradek> very hard without pictures
[16:57:10] <archivist> I put a rotary dti on the A table and went down looking for axis drift, I need to buy a test bar really
[16:58:01] <archivist> but for most I can get away with errors and hide by setting up for the job in hand
[16:58:24] <mozmck_work> are the kins that stuart made available to others?
[16:58:50] <archivist> he posted links iirc
[16:58:51] <cradek> yes, he shares everything related to his EMC projects
[16:59:37] <mozmck_work> I didn't see the links so I didn't know if they were available yet.
[16:59:54] <archivist> see mailing list from him
[17:00:00] <mozmck_work> ok
[17:11:29] <archivist> I have to take the jump to 2.3 soon
[17:20:39] <piasdom> what's the difference between emc2 2.2.8 and 2.3 ?
[17:23:36] <archivist> see changelog
[17:23:40] <piasdom> k
[17:24:46] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Released
[17:25:05] <piasdom> thanks
[17:32:39] <alex_joni> hi seb
[17:32:51] <seb_kuzminsky> hello :-)
[17:35:22] <motioncontrol> good evening seb.i have the .bit file for spi comunication on 5i20.please have a example of hal file? thenks
[17:36:59] <seb_kuzminsky> motioncontrol: spi support is not in the hostmot2 driver yet
[17:37:50] <geo01005> seb_kuzminsky, sick of that question yet ;)
[17:38:14] <motioncontrol> ok . when you thing the development is finisch ?
[17:38:35] <seb_kuzminsky> motioncontrol: no estimate, sorry...
[17:38:56] <seb_kuzminsky> geo01005: heh, heh, hmm, hrrrm ... cough cough
[17:39:04] <motioncontrol> ok thanks no problem i wait
[17:39:47] <geo01005> I just got my 5i20 via UPS today, still waiting for the vital systems card.
[17:40:18] <geo01005> Could have skipped the vital systems card if we had working SPI in hm2. But oh well, life goes on.
[17:40:51] <seb_kuzminsky> soon, soon. by 2099 at the latest ;-)
[17:41:57] <archivist> hehe sensible date
[17:42:06] <geo01005> Oh, I might have my reprap extruder completed by then :)
[17:42:12] <seb_kuzminsky> haha
[17:44:48] <piasdom> how do i upgrade to 2.3 ? (it DOES run in hardy?)
[17:45:35] <archivist> see upgrading note as there are some changes that you need to know
[17:45:48] <seb_kuzminsky> piasdom: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.3
[17:46:27] <piasdom> thanks archivist and seb_kuzminsky
[18:02:10] <skunkworks_> wow - for 79 dollars mesa has a parallel only 7i43. I never noticed that.
[18:36:05] <NewType> hi all, I need to know if I am going insane. (which is very possible but I need to be sure.)
[18:36:25] <NewType> I ran the sample 5axis demo code on AXIS, but the B axis isn't following the right hand rule.
[18:37:38] <NewType> the rotating axis of the B axis is parallel to the y axis, and the right hand rule is telling me the sample code is rotating the opposit direction. Am I seeing something wrong?
[19:18:26] <skunkworks_> jepler: I have a tracking number :)
[19:19:07] <jepler> hmm .. well there's sure something wrong with the axis plot of 'cone.ngc'
[19:19:16] <jepler> I can't tell my right hand from my left so I can't tell you if it's rotating the wrong way
[19:24:05] <cradek> NewType: it depends whether you think of the tool vector pointing up along the spindle or down toward the work. I don't know which way is "correct". Also, I don't think every machine agrees.
[19:24:38] <cradek> I think it's normal to think of the tool vector pointing up through the spindle (hence normal to the work surface)
[19:24:45] <cradek> haha "normal"
[19:25:20] <cradek> (which way is it in the 5axis demo?)
[19:27:56] <sed_> how do I get hal_parport to work with stg_io.hal do I have 2 config file in the stg config folder by those nams or do I add hte parport to the stg_io.hal?
[19:30:15] <cradek> you can do either. you can have multiple hal files. personally I like to have just one because I think it's easier to follow.
[19:31:04] <sed_> so any file .hal will load, so I can have one file in the config folder called skippy.hal?
[19:31:29] <cradek> in the ini file, you list the hal files that should be loaded.
[19:31:48] <sed_> oic, cool so I assume thats the stg.ini
[19:33:14] <cradek> yes
[19:33:58] <sed_> yue
[19:34:22] <sed_> that was weird
[19:35:24] <sed_> I guess I can use /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper-gantry/stepper_parport.hal as an example
[19:36:07] <sed_> I just need it to turn on and off things like coolant that emc1 didnt support with the stg card
[19:36:26] <sed_> once I have it working and tuned I am going to ditch the parell port
[20:19:02] <NewType> cradek: hi! well, it doesn't matter which direction is the cone/tool vector is pointing, right? Right hand rule is still right hand rule.
[20:19:20] <NewType> I am using this convention: http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html <- see figure.
[20:19:47] <cradek> sure it matters
[20:20:07] <cradek> point your thumb up or down - fingers go opposite ways
[20:20:54] <NewType> OK, if that's the case, C is turning the opposite directoin then.
[20:21:28] <NewType> the 5axis sample config is the one comes with AXIS, with the cool 3D picture of a gantry machine.
[20:21:31] <cradek> if it helps, I think it's true that you can configure it any way you want
[20:21:34] <jepler> cradek: but that changes whether the thumb is along + or - of the axis
[20:22:10] <archivist> "point your thumb in the positive direction of an axis"
[20:22:37] <cradek> I'm talking about pointing the thumb along the tool
[20:22:52] <cradek> maybe I'm thinking about it wrong
[20:23:26] <archivist> I make it p as I go along :)
[20:23:26] <cradek> consider B90 C0. does the tool tip point toward -X or +X? the tool vector points the opposite way.
[20:23:31] <NewType> well, I am using figure 1 at http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
[20:23:49] <NewType> cradek: +x
[20:23:56] <cradek> I don't see figure numbers
[20:24:03] <dmess> down the old x-
[20:24:08] <cradek> which machine picture is like is your setup?
[20:24:12] <NewType> oh, the upper left one.
[20:24:29] <NewType> the 5 axis gantry router
[20:24:34] <cradek> but the machine is like the lower left?
[20:24:52] <NewType> yep, my machine is the lower left one.
[20:24:53] <cradek> ok
[20:25:20] <cradek> what do you think is the BC orientation of that picture? I think it might be C0 B-45
[20:25:29] <NewType> OH! B+90 C0, it should point -x! Sorry
[20:25:49] <NewType> yes, that picture is C0 B-45.
[20:26:28] <dmess> if you can use tool axis vectors and let the machine sort it out.
[20:27:07] <dmess> but you need a good post that always goes the correct direction to the next point
[20:27:08] <NewType> dmess: I stopped using 5axiskin and fall back on trivalkin.
[20:27:28] <dmess> really?? why??
[20:27:39] <cradek> that can work fine if your cam does pivot length compensation (but you can't use tool lengths - what a pain)
[20:27:57] <NewType> I wasn't able to stop MasterCAM to don
[20:28:15] <jepler> X and Y are different between the cnc-toolkit link and the "5axis" sample config
[20:28:16] <NewType> I wasn't able to stop MasterCAM to not do the tool compensation, so I have to disable the 5axiskin on AXIS
[20:28:24] <archivist> * archivist wonders if I should or should not slavishly follow middle right or carry on calling mine B along X and A on B
[20:29:07] <cradek> fwiw, I disagree with "5Axis Mill"
[20:29:15] <cradek> I think XYZ should rotate with the work
[20:29:16] <NewType> jepler: oh?
[20:29:21] <cradek> (right middle)
[20:29:30] <cradek> middle left, I have no idea how it should work
[20:30:12] <cradek> it's good these configurations are all possible with emc2 :-)
[20:30:17] <archivist> conventions are only conventions
[20:30:35] <archivist> mine are well mixed :)
[20:31:07] <jepler> NewType: command some X-only moves an d you'll see it
[20:31:38] <NewType> if I use XYZBC geometry and use AXIS's cone direction to configure the machine, then the MasterCAM GCode output would be wrong.
[20:31:44] <NewType> MasterCAM is also using the right hand rule
[20:32:09] <dmess> cradek some machines ive seen have the axes rotating with the work... the operator cant look at the part and tell WTF is gion on
[20:32:25] <cradek> I think "using the right hand rule" is not a sufficient enough description of anything to be useful
[20:33:32] <cradek> NewType: but you could use XYZ-BC or XYZB-C or whatever it would be, and it would be fine?
[20:34:19] <NewType> actually, if I configure my macihne as XYZBC, and ignore the cone, the machine is doing the "correct" orientation.
[20:35:22] <NewType> the cone in axis will be tracing the correct path, but the cone is in a totally wrong direction.
[20:35:23] <jepler> fwiw I had to make this change to have the axis display and vismach display plot the same thing: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commitdiff;h=69ca1cf32c190c83bc20e1cd5f2e39d108b857f8
[20:35:51] <NewType> basically, the cone in axis will be "inside" the part I am machinging, while the actual machine is doing the right thing.
[20:36:31] <jepler> hmmm or is it still wrong?
[20:36:35] <jepler> * jepler scratches his head
[20:37:31] <NewType> * NewType is thinking
[20:38:29] <NewType> MasterCAM is outputting the correct GCode (as far as I can tell).
[20:38:57] <NewType> with trivalkin, I am not doing anything creative, so it should be fine.
[20:39:06] <archivist> fun thing with those diagrams is if A is on B then after 90 degrees its name should change
[20:39:44] <NewType> but you will have an effectively XYZAB machine.
[20:40:59] <cradek> archivist: that depends on where your zeroes are - and interestingly if they are all zero, some don't matter (on XYZBC, when B=0, C doesn't do anything)
[20:41:59] <cradek> on one they show C rotates, so that it points along Y instead of Z sometimes
[20:42:15] <cradek> it's pretty baffling
[20:42:30] <NewType> so, is there a standard solution to X0 Y0 Z0 B90 C0 then?
[20:42:52] <archivist> if I was rotating C mounted on B then I drill a bolt circle
[20:42:54] <toastatwork> the "canned" and often wrong response is that B is the rotary axis on Y
[20:43:19] <toastatwork> it isn't that simple, but a lot of machines obey the generic rule.
[20:43:45] <toastatwork> but as i think some people have mentioned, if you have stacked rotary axes, that can change very quickly if you reorient the axis under it.
[20:44:00] <archivist> I do rotate A along more than one axis
[20:44:45] <toastatwork> A is the rotary on X, and C is the rotary on Z.
[20:44:51] <cradek> NewType: I don't know that - I think the tool should point along X at B90 C0, but which way? depends which way you think of the tool vector being.
[20:44:59] <toastatwork> and again, sometimes that goes to hell based on what the tool builder wants the machine to do
[20:45:07] <archivist> because I use a lecel to set 0 A often is set to rotate offset and parallel to z
[20:45:15] <archivist> level
[20:45:36] <archivist> toastatwork, thats me...
[20:45:51] <toastatwork> like, there are mills with a C/U axis.
[20:45:57] <toastatwork> and jig grinders.
[20:47:12] <toastatwork> and cradek / archivist, doesn't EMC re-orient X/Y/Z to always be along the tool?
[20:47:36] <cradek> I think I wrote the 5axis kinematics so it had the fewest number of "+90" and minus signs in it possible, thinking that must make it right :-)
[20:47:54] <NewType> I think B90 C0 should point to -x direction.
[20:47:58] <cradek> toastatwork: no, XYZ are the workpiece, UVW are along the tool (in one of the kins I wrote anyway)
[20:48:02] <toastatwork> oh, cool
[20:48:07] <cradek> NewType: what do you mean point? the tool tip?
[20:48:16] <NewType> cradek: yes, tool tip
[20:48:23] <toastatwork> where is this B axis
[20:48:29] <toastatwork> on the head or on the table?
[20:48:33] <cradek> I think I might agree
[20:48:47] <cradek> the head
[20:48:53] <NewType> toastatwork: B is on the head
[20:48:56] <cradek> I think it shouldn't matter...
[20:49:03] <NewType> the so call head-head configuration
[20:49:09] <toastatwork> it shouldn't, you're right - i was confused what the question was
[20:49:21] <cradek> you and me both
[20:49:24] <NewType> me three
[20:49:30] <toastatwork> like, are you asking where the 0 on the B axis is pointing?
[20:49:33] <toastatwork> when you issue B90?
[20:49:43] <jepler> all I'm prepared to confirm is that axis is doing something funky
[20:50:02] <cradek> jepler: but wouldn't you rather just argue?
[20:50:06] <NewType> if you have x0 y0 z0 B0 C0, then the tool tip should point down, just like a regular 3 axis
[20:50:18] <cradek> I bet THAT we all agree on
[20:50:22] <jepler> one [DISPLAY]GEOMETRY make the cone do what I expect, and the backplot do what I don't
[20:50:30] <toastatwork> is this a horizontal?
[20:50:34] <jepler> and another reverses which one does what I expect
[20:50:43] <cradek> jepler: ick.
[20:50:59] <jepler> in each case where it's doing something 'funny", "funny" seems to be that the C-axis rotation isn't doing anything
[20:51:29] <jepler> and "what I expect" means "axis looks a lot like vismach"
[20:51:29] <alex_joni> if it's applied last, it can't really do much
[20:51:36] <archivist> rotated cone is still a cone
[20:51:37] <alex_joni> maybe it's rotating the cone around it's axis
[20:51:39] <jepler> cradek: also, is it possible that W changerd direction since you first wrote cone.ngc?
[20:51:41] <alex_joni> which you wouldn't see
[20:52:48] <jepler> g1 w100 f2000 (drill)
[20:52:50] <jepler> g0 w0
[20:52:55] <cradek> yes that's wrong
[20:53:00] <cradek> w- should drill
[20:53:24] <NewType> alex_joni: where do you stand in terms of where the tool tip of x0 y0 z0 B90 C0 should point at?
[20:54:10] <alex_joni> NewType: in a whole different world than you guys :)
[20:54:20] <NewType> HAHHA!
[20:54:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is a robots guy
[20:54:39] <alex_joni> it's X0Y0Z0 Alpha0 Beta0 Gamma0 there
[20:54:50] <toastatwork> newtype, I can't visualize it, but all our rotaries are counterclockwise from 0, looking from + to -
[20:54:51] <alex_joni> and I usually don't care where it points to ;)
[20:55:17] <toastatwork> so if we have a pretend C axis, the spindle, looking down on X and Y (normal graph paper)
[20:55:20] <NewType> toastatwork: so that's the right hand rule!
[20:55:37] <toastatwork> C90 rotates from parallel to x, to parallel to y
[20:56:24] <cradek> yes
[20:56:28] <NewType> toastatwork: I think I agree to that.
[20:56:32] <cradek> if B is nonzero anyway
[20:56:41] <toastatwork> assuming all other axes are 0, yes.
[20:56:51] <NewType> cradek: yes, I agree to that too.
[20:57:05] <toastatwork> wait, nonzero?
[20:57:10] <toastatwork> i don't think i understand
[20:57:36] <cradek> if B is zero, C is irrelevant, and the tool is upright (along Z)
[20:57:48] <NewType> toastatwork: if you have x0 y0 z0 B0 C0 move to x0 y0 z0 B0 C90, you just rotate the spindle counterclockwise.
[20:57:54] <toastatwork> newtype yes, exactly
[20:58:09] <toastatwork> i was imagining a perpindicular bar in the spindle along X
[20:58:15] <toastatwork> and just rotating C to move it around.
[20:58:20] <NewType> toastatwork: yes, I agree.
[20:58:22] <toastatwork> to get the rotation rules.
[20:58:33] <NewType> so, where do you put B axis then? :)
[20:58:36] <NewType> paralle to y?
[20:58:46] <toastatwork> that's where B is on all my machines
[20:58:55] <archivist> and mine
[20:59:22] <archivist> others would call my Y X though
[20:59:28] <NewType> so, with right hand rule again, x0 y0 z0 B0 C0 move to x0 y0 z0 B90 C0, the tool tip should point to -x direction, right?
[20:59:39] <toastatwork> i can't visualize it, so I dunno
[20:59:56] <toastatwork> if you followed the same rule as the hypothetical C axis, then i agree.
[20:59:57] <NewType> toastatwork: here: look at the lower left: http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
[21:00:32] <NewType> I assume x0 y0 z0 B0 C0 would have the tool pointing downward, like a 3 axis machine would.
[21:00:45] <toastatwork> yeh, i think i agree
[21:01:00] <NewType> you have a 5 axis machine???
[21:01:04] <toastatwork> 4 axis
[21:01:11] <NewType> oh?. Humm. ;(
[21:01:26] <toastatwork> and I guess a trunnion head, but we don't use it much.
[21:03:54] <NewType> toastatwork: do you have axis running?
[21:04:07] <toastatwork> sry, don't run emc
[21:04:20] <NewType> oh? what do you have then? mach3?
[21:04:38] <toastatwork> the machine i am running right now is a Fanuc 0M
[21:04:41] <toastatwork> oops, no
[21:04:47] <toastatwork> mitsubishi meldas 64
[21:05:03] <NewType> oh, so it has its own contorller.
[21:05:05] <NewType> hummm...
[21:05:30] <toastatwork> and they're tables, not heads
[21:05:33] <toastatwork> so
[21:05:41] <toastatwork> and they're horizontal?
[21:06:00] <toastatwork> too much for me to try and visualize as a vertical head-head 5 axis machine
[21:06:41] <NewType> I have a 5 axis head-head machine.
[21:06:46] <jepler> tool = HalRotate([tool],c,"joint4",1,0,-1,0)
[21:06:56] <jepler> The B rotation is negated in 5axisgui.py
[21:07:09] <NewType> I configured using the right hand rule.... but AXIS is showing somethign different.
[21:07:51] <NewType> jepler: so it rotates in the wrong directoin then?
[21:07:59] <jepler> welllllll
[21:08:05] <jepler> I can't say that I've figured this out yet
[21:08:20] <jepler> I'm talking about 5axisgui, which I don't think you're even talking about
[21:08:28] <toastatwork> i am kind of glad i only have to deal with indexing tables, it sounds hard
[21:08:38] <toastatwork> to deal with head-head rotaries
[21:08:39] <jepler> 5axisgui is this thing: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/5axisgui.png
[21:09:22] <toastatwork> swank
[21:10:36] <NewType> jepler: do you follow the right-hand-rule?
[21:10:48] <jepler> I follow the order of unthumbed fools
[21:10:56] <NewType> nice.
[21:11:10] <alex_joni> opposable thumbs are overrated
[21:11:21] <toastatwork> that's certainly how some woodworkers behave
[21:12:01] <NewType> jepler: that picture, according to the setting of the machine axis, is not following the right-hand-rule.
[21:12:29] <NewType> that's why I am confused.
[21:12:46] <NewType> +y is into the picture
[21:12:52] <jepler> right
[21:12:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni googles something
[21:13:01] <jepler> and that's b45c0 or something
[21:13:11] <NewType> yep.
[21:13:25] <NewType> which should be, according to the right hand rule, B-45 C0.
[21:13:55] <alex_joni> NewType: this should maybe help? http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
[21:14:18] <NewType> yep. my machien is the lower left: 5 axis router
[21:15:00] <NewType> with http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/5axisgui.png, +y is into the picture, this should be x0 y0 z0 B-45 C0, right?
[21:15:31] <alex_joni> x+ into the picture?
[21:15:44] <NewType> nope, x+ is right of the picture.
[21:16:04] <NewType> I ran this 5axis code 20 minutes ago... so I think I remember this right.
[21:16:07] <alex_joni> not according to rainnea ;)
[21:16:15] <alex_joni> I mean cnc-toolkit
[21:16:26] <NewType> okok.... let's pick one.
[21:16:38] <NewType> I just need a reference.
[21:16:46] <NewType> I am running AXIS, loading up 5axis right now.
[21:17:03] <NewType> let's use AXIS...
[21:17:45] <NewType> one sec... internet problem... one sec.
[21:18:28] <jepler> now I've got my axis and 5axisgui all screwed up
[21:18:40] <alex_joni> jepler: git reset --hard :D
[21:18:50] <jepler> alex_joni: maybe git stash
[21:19:18] <jepler> NewType: I am pretty sure about 5axisgui rotating B opposite the right-hand rule
[21:19:41] <jepler> (and I think I see the line of code that causes that)
[21:20:08] <Megazone> ok, so x+ is moving the assembly to the right, good!
[21:20:13] <Megazone> that's join 0
[21:20:26] <jepler> axis more or less does what 5axisgui shows, but I can't see where *its* inverted direction of rotation comes from yet
[21:20:41] <Megazone> join 1, y axis, is moving the assembly into the picture. good.
[21:20:50] <alex_joni> jepler: maybe the ini?
[21:20:55] <jepler> alex_joni: no
[21:21:06] <alex_joni> hmm.. ok.. would have been a wild guess
[21:21:31] <alex_joni> I suspect nothing fancy in axisrc either ...
[21:21:36] <Megazone> so, if I rotate joint 4 to a positive direction....
[21:21:57] <alex_joni> Megazone: which is 4?
[21:22:02] <Megazone> it is the same as http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/5axisgui.png
[21:22:10] <Megazone> joint 4 is B
[21:22:14] <Megazone> joint 3 is A
[21:22:26] <Megazone> XYZABC -> 012345
[21:22:36] <Megazone> darn, I want my nick back!
[21:22:55] <alex_joni> well.. 0123.. map to the moving parts (joints)
[21:23:04] <alex_joni> so if you have a XYZBC it's still 01234
[21:23:25] <alex_joni> but since it's AB there shouldn't be any confusion
[21:23:41] <jepler> alex_joni: no, it looks like 5axisgui is set up to do nothing with joint 3 and B ~= joint 4
[21:24:08] <Megazone> alex_join: I need 012345 to do all 5 axis, because A axis is a place holder.
[21:24:23] <alex_joni> ah, ok.. so it's XYZABC actually
[21:24:52] <archivist> Megazone, /nickserv help ghost
[21:25:14] <alex_joni> or wait for it to time out ;)
[21:25:18] <Megazone> alex_joni: I did do the way you think first, but I need to set AXES = 6 in the *.ini file to get the B and C correct.
[21:25:38] <alex_joni> Megazone: that depends on the kins
[21:25:50] <alex_joni> if you don't want to rewrite those, then it's easiest like this
[21:26:17] <Megazone> Megazone is now known as NewType
[21:26:20] <EbiDK|AWAY> Gameloss.
[21:26:50] <NewType> well, I used 5axiskin and trivalkin, both give me the wrong B axis rotation.
[21:28:05] <alex_joni> the kins themselves have little influence over AXIS
[21:28:18] <alex_joni> they do have influence on vismach though
[21:28:29] <NewType> ok...
[21:29:12] <NewType> you konw.
[21:29:29] <alex_joni> elevated guesses :P
[21:29:48] <NewType> if I ignore the graphics in AXIS, and just use the correct actual machien motion to set the B axis, then all my GCode is OK.
[21:30:14] <NewType> but I want to know why B is rotating in a different direction.
[21:30:28] <NewType> in 5axis and trivalkin.
[21:31:10] <NewType> becaues it may screw me up in the very short future.
[21:32:28] <NewType> there is also a part 2 to my problem. in the AXIS graphics screen, the tool will go in and out of the tool path, while the actual machine will be moving correctly.
[21:32:43] <jepler> NewType: I'm more or less convinced that you're right, the rotation of B in 5axisgui, 5axiskins and in axis is backwards from the sane (right-hand rule) way
[21:32:58] <NewType> YEAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am right!
[21:33:05] <jepler> NewType: for now, I think you can change the direction of rotation by specifying [DISPLAY]GEOMETRY = XYZC-B in your inifile
[21:33:27] <NewType> OK. let me try that.
[21:33:45] <NewType> is there a way to capture a video of the AXIS graphics screen?
[21:33:46] <jepler> but when I find and fix the problem in axis, your inifile will suddenly be wrong :-/
[21:33:52] <jepler> no easy way
[21:34:50] <NewType> jepler: in [DISPLAY] GEOMETRY? or [TRAJ] GEOMETRY?
[21:34:57] <jepler> [DISPLAY]GEOMETRY
[21:35:22] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[DISPLAY]-section
[21:35:37] <roh> re
[21:35:50] <NewType> ok...
[21:36:08] <NewType> trying...
[21:36:27] <jepler> elif ch == 'B':
[21:36:27] <jepler> glRotatef(ry*sign, 0, 1, 0)
[21:36:43] <jepler> try as I might, I can't see the negative number here
[21:36:57] <NewType> OK, it is working.
[21:36:58] <NewType> cool!
[21:37:31] <jepler> and surely opengl's rotate follows the right-hand rule :-/
[21:37:38] <NewType> let's try the GCode.
[21:39:24] <NewType> Oh mAN! it is doing the right now!!
[21:40:11] <NewType> oh no... almost....
[21:40:22] <jepler> yeah, now something about the C rotation is wrong
[21:40:48] <NewType> after C rotates 180, the AXIS graphics is wrong.
[21:40:59] <NewType> the actual machine is OK though.
[21:41:34] <NewType> I need to capture the AXIS screen on video for you guys.
[21:44:34] <NewType> duty call. back again later!
[21:50:09] <jepler> bbl
[22:08:22] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:30:53] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY