#emc | Logs for 2009-06-21

[00:39:07] <anonimasu> hello
[00:39:08] <anonimasu> :)
[00:40:16] <i--pink> hii
[00:40:28] <i--pink> i have a problem
[00:41:22] <i--pink> all the 74hc are very sensitive to noise
[00:41:37] <i--pink> how i fix that?
[01:25:56] <anonimasu> I'm sorry I dont know
[01:26:02] <anonimasu> and it's way past bedtime night
[02:24:54] <TBC> Is there any motherboards that are better for real time things like EMC?
[02:27:21] <TBC> My last was a MSI and works ok but I dont want to miss out on some cool fearure.
[02:27:48] <TBC> feature...sorry
[05:10:38] <jimbo132> Anyone here who is up onthe Mesa 5i20 and the 7i33?
[06:47:37] <f7ee> logger_emc: hello
[06:54:33] <micges> logger_emc: bookmark
[06:54:33] <micges> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-06-21.txt
[06:55:57] <f7ee> logger_emc: machine operator
[06:55:57] <f7ee> I'm logging. I don't understand 'machine operator', f7ee. Try /msg logger_emc help
[14:03:42] <tomp> anyone looked at this? ( i cannot evaluate) http://freshmeat.net/projects/rt-stepper "real time stepper motor CNC gcode virtual machine when used with the USB-to-parallel dongle"..."not a Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) replacement, but it is a valid alternative."
[14:07:35] <anonimas1> hm.. I wonder how they did away usb delays..
[14:07:43] <tomp> and this serial relay card control may be of use if adapted http://www.thomas-dohl.de/?Projekte:Relaiskarte:RCcP_Programm, maybe useful for non-rt
[14:08:11] <tomp> anonimas1: not sure they did handle it, ~"i cannot evaluate"
[14:09:08] <anonimas1> me neither I gave my usb parport away
[14:09:37] <anonimas1> im waiting for the machine to load this file :=
[14:09:38] <anonimas1> :)
[14:12:03] <anonimas1> eternal wait for dnc..
[14:12:06] <anonimas1> :)
[14:12:18] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[14:59:57] <dgarr> cradek: jepler: et al -- nice work on the git switch and updates to wiki -- thanks
[15:20:08] <cradek> dgarr: thanks!
[15:22:54] <dgarr> i was able to clone, compile, and pull -- no problems
[15:23:25] <cradek> great, thanks
[15:23:48] <dgarr> and the wiki iinfo looks very useful for someone (me) unfamiliar with git
[15:23:56] <cradek> it will be easier for you to submit your patches now too.
[15:24:11] <Guest310> Hello
[15:24:19] <cradek> hi Guest310
[15:25:41] <Guest310> Some I french, some one can tell me if I can use EMC2 with an EQUIPAX controller on COM port. The machine is an ISEL with servo motor?
[15:26:11] <cradek> no, EMC2 cannot use a controller like that.
[15:26:41] <cradek> it can run servo amps directly if the amps accept +-10V velocity or torque command, or step/direction command
[15:27:51] <Guest310> At the begining, the machine was used with GALAAD.
[15:29:09] <Guest310> Das exist an electronic controler to drive my machine compatible with EMC2?
[15:29:48] <cradek> sorry, we don't have enough information to answer that
[15:30:05] <tomp> emc is the controller, you may mean the interface between emc and your drives. tells us about the drives.
[15:30:14] <Jymmm> http://www.ecklersoft.com/
[15:30:33] <cradek> EMC2 can run servo amps directly if the amps accept +-10V velocity or torque command, or step/direction command. If you can discover whether your machine has that kind of interface available, you will have the answer.
[15:30:33] <tomp> Jymmm: his serial device?
[15:30:56] <Guest310> Yes sérial on com port
[15:31:04] <tomp> Jymmm: oops his usb to par device
[15:31:58] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[15:36:12] <tom3p> Guest310: sorry if the messages to others confused you. you cannot use serial communication to the drive under emc2. you may be able to use emc2 and a different interface to the drive ( parallel or special card ).
[15:36:54] <tom3p> Guest310: there are many alternatives, but they depend on what signals your drive expects ( and those signals depend on what the motor is )
[15:38:29] <tom3p> git/apt-get/cvs/tarballs... all depend on a better throughput than 57 KiBs ( sheesh!)
[15:38:57] <tom3p> i had to complain, so now its 12
[15:41:05] <Guest310> I dont understant all terms but the three motors are servo by SHIMANO models DHO52
[15:42:02] <Guest310> The EQUIPAX is a controller with three axes controler and power supply
[15:43:00] <tom3p> shiNano
[15:43:54] <Guest310> Sorry SHINANO KENSHI
[15:44:07] <tom3p> yep, its a servo...
[15:46:19] <tom3p> still loading pdf http://www.pikpower.com/New Site/New_pdfs/SKC/SKCnew.pdf
[15:47:48] <tom3p> the dload speed is bad here, do you have documents for the motor driver? especially the wiring to it?
[15:48:00] <Guest310> Yes, theres a DC motor and coupled with a codeur
[15:48:33] <tom3p> ok, there's dc motors with and without brushes. which do you have?
[15:48:55] <tom3p> no.. dont bother, the drive hides that from the controler
[15:49:46] <tom3p> on the driver ( the box that connects to the motor) do you have information on that ( or can you see it ?)
[15:50:22] <Guest310> I think it si brushes motor
[15:50:49] <tom3p> there is usually a controller cable, an ac input to power the driver) a control power input and an encoder input. it may have an encoder output ( i hope) does any of this seem familiar?
[15:51:01] <tom3p> brushless is good :)
[15:51:31] <Guest310> On the controler there is a screen with text
[15:52:33] <Guest310> On each axe there is a cable to drive the motor and a cable to give the rotation information.
[15:53:05] <tom3p> ok, i cant get the pdf now ( git xfer is down to 2k) but... you're ok
[15:53:08] <Guest310> Each motor is connected to the controler with this two cables.
[15:53:41] <Guest310> The controler is powered by electric cable 220/240 V
[15:55:00] <tom3p> you should be able to use the drive the motor and the power supply to the motor . but you need to detrermine 1 special thing about how the motor is comanded to move. often this is a +/- 10V signal. it sometimes is a digital signal with a signed number. i hope it is +/-10V ( or +/- some small Voltage )
[15:57:32] <tom3p> you need to read the documents on the drive to find this information. The difference is ... +/-10V is like a gas pedal, while the digital methods is like "go to 10.5 kilometers/hour" . you see 2 methods that do the same thing. but emc handles +/-10V usually.
[16:00:01] <tom3p> i have no idea if my initial git was complete. the terminal is gone. du -chs reports 34meg. sound right?
[16:01:21] <Guest310> OK tom3p, I am lost. das EMC2 is only a soft?
[16:01:44] <tom3p> yes, a soft that works with hardware.
[16:02:30] <tom3p> emc talks to the driver (amplifier ... treiber?) the driver talks to the motor
[16:02:36] <SWPadnos> tom3p, the git checkout transfers about 33M, but the on-disk size should be around 81M
[16:02:42] <Guest310> Ok I have founded documentation, the servos are controled by 10 V DC
[16:02:52] <tom3p> SWPadnos: thx, will try later
[16:03:02] <tom3p> Guest310: :)
[16:03:21] <SWPadnos> I think there's a git --resume command, which will try to finish something that got interrupted
[16:03:30] <Guest310> The interface is V24/RS232 9600 BAUDS
[16:03:31] <tom3p> i suggest the mesa series of pci cards. look on wiki.linuxcnc.org about them.
[16:03:34] <SWPadnos> don't issue any other git commands before using that though
[16:03:46] <tom3p> Guest
[16:04:23] <tom3p> Guest310: oops, does the drive have more than serial interface?
[16:04:36] <tom3p> SWPadnos: noted thx
[16:05:00] <Guest310> tom3p, only RS232
[16:06:47] <tom3p> Guest310: then i think you will need new drives, but can use the motors and power supply. this is more comlex, and you need details about the motor itself. sorry i cannot download the manual successfully now.
[16:07:58] <Guest310> OK tom3p, thanks for your help, good bye and see you later.
[16:07:59] <malem-cnc> hello
[16:08:14] <malem-cnc> trying to build emc2 on 9.04
[16:08:33] <malem-cnc> ./configure fails at
[16:08:36] <malem-cnc> checking for BWidget using /usr/bin/tclsh8.4... configure: error: not found
[16:09:49] <tom3p> dang! i just got the pdf... it has no drivers in it, what driver did he use??
[16:11:00] <tom3p> malem-cnc: sounds like your missing a package needed. BWidget is a tcltk package
[16:11:44] <malem-cnc> yeah,just found it, I though it was because I had the wrong tcl version
[16:12:23] <tom3p> cool, you making emc2 on the next ubuntu
[16:14:13] <malem-cnc> well just need the sim, I'm rewriting axis, and the old noisy piece of junk that drives my machine is not a pleasant dev computer
[16:19:13] <malem-cnc> argh
[16:19:18] <malem-cnc> TCL mismatch: 8.4 vs 8.5
[16:19:20] <malem-cnc> configure: error: Python requires use of Tcl 8.5 and Tk 8.5.
[16:19:29] <tom3p> the little motors Guest310 was using are sweet. like 60 to 100W in a small dia bld motor with encoder. sorta like the pittmans ive been eyeing but newer technology.
[16:20:06] <tom3p> malem-cnc: yep losta that, BUT you can have multiple tcls available
[16:21:28] <malem-cnc> will try the compile options..
[16:25:08] <tom3p> haha some searches for the DH052 motor turned up Desperate Housewives episode 52
[16:31:04] <malem-cnc> configured!, building..
[16:33:26] <malem-cnc> yay! works!
[16:37:38] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIA0jeW-24
[17:33:16] <tom3p> haha du bist terrorist
[17:39:54] <tom3p> Bundeskriminalamt hmm , makes me NOT want to click on goto to their website
[17:40:39] <kakeman> hi
[17:41:39] <tom3p> hello
[17:42:03] <kakeman> i'm starting my cnc project
[17:42:12] <tom3p> great! in FInland?
[17:42:16] <kakeman> yes
[17:44:23] <kakeman> i going to build emc compatible controller for my unipolar steppers
[17:45:36] <kakeman> but my knowledge about steppers and emc and things is weak
[17:47:06] <kakeman> do you have any good site about emc, controllers and steppers?
[17:48:20] <tom3p> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[17:51:08] <tom3p> and check that your motors are unipolar. the box that drives (called a drive or amplifier) them must be compatible with the motor and with emc2.
[17:52:14] <kakeman> 6 wires
[17:53:19] <tom3p> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor
[17:54:17] <tom3p> yes 6 wires, did you look with a meter? it might look like 2 sets of wires ( 3 each) and in each set, one wire is in middle of other 2 ( the center tap of a coil )
[17:58:29] <tom3p> EMC2 can provide the sequencing needed for as unipolar motor driver, but i dont know of a driver ( many people use bipolar motors )
[17:58:43] <tom3p> it likely is that i just dont find that information right now
[18:02:20] <tom3p> in unipolar, different coils are used with different directions. in bipolar, the same coil is used with the current flowing in different directions. so bipolar can be less coils.
[18:03:37] <tom3p> very good info on step motors http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/
[18:08:34] <kakeman> unipolars suck?
[18:11:01] <tom3p> no, they just have more copper than needed, sortof older style
[18:11:50] <tom3p> som google linstepper for a unipolar driver, and look at pminmo's site for more http://pminmo.com/
[18:12:03] <tom3p> so, google ( sorry )
[18:12:59] <tom3p> 2 of your windings will be unused in one direction of turning. while on bipolar, none would be unused in either direction.
[18:17:20] <tom3p> many of the DIY drivers are very low power. not enough to move a steel cutting mill.
[18:20:29] <kakeman> my cnc will not cut steel
[18:22:03] <renesis> mine does just not well
[18:22:30] <renesis> cant go deep, so its hard on tools
[18:23:07] <tom3p> kakeman: ok, describe the machine ( no problem, lotsa people use emc2 for engraving and pcb making )
[18:26:08] <kakeman> big dimensions, little forces and accuracy
[18:27:04] <kakeman> 500mm x 500mm x 500mm
[18:28:03] <renesis> thats like 20x20x20"?
[18:28:10] <kakeman> for cutting big molds
[18:28:22] <kakeman> of foam
[18:28:27] <renesis> heheheh
[18:33:26] <tom3p> the slide needed to move 500mm is likely bigger than the single chip drives i posted. look beyond DIY, into maybe Gecko drives and similar.
[18:34:09] <tom3p> have yo built or repaired electronics before?
[18:34:24] <tom3p> if not, save yourself money by spending some ;)
[18:36:01] <renesis> i can design/build/repair electronics
[18:36:16] <renesis> im still buiying geckos when i upgrade
[18:36:47] <renesis> i dont have all year to be developing step drivers in my spare time, i wanna make shit
[18:43:24] <tom3p> i got no git --resume :( nor does man say there is one
[18:44:00] <anonimas1> tom3p: might be worth looking at the gecko package with breakout and all
[18:44:52] <anonimas1> g40 that is
[18:44:55] <anonimas1> err g540
[18:45:07] <anonimas1> http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14469
[18:45:18] <tom3p> eh? would that work for his unipolar motors?
[18:45:31] <tom3p> ( this is for kakeman )
[18:46:57] <anonimas1> I think geckos will work for that
[18:47:31] <cradek> I think geckos are bipolar only
[18:48:01] <cradek> I think you can wire any unipolar motor in bipolar (but not necessarily the opposite)
[18:48:31] <anonimas1> yep, that's right
[18:49:39] <anonimas1> http://www.geckodrive.com/upload/Step_motor_basics.pdf
[18:49:41] <anonimas1> like that..
[18:49:43] <jmkasunich> you can't wire a 5-wire unipolar as bipolar
[18:49:52] <cradek> you are right
[18:49:56] <tom3p> hes got 6 wire unipolar
[18:49:58] <anonimas1> indeed that's true
[18:50:13] <jmkasunich> ok (didn't read back far enough, just arrived)
[18:50:32] <anonimas1> are there 5 wire ones?
[18:50:46] <jmkasunich> yes
[18:50:52] <jmkasunich> common in cheap stuff
[18:50:58] <anonimas1> I see
[18:51:00] <jmkasunich> basically, 6-wide with the two center taps connected
[18:51:22] <jmkasunich> feed power to the 5th wire, drive the other 4 with open collector transistors, cheapest possible drive arranngement
[18:51:49] <tom3p> geckop manual sez "The motors can be 4, 6 or 8-wire motors"
[18:52:22] <tom3p> kakeman: so gecko may work for you. plz read http://www.geckodrive.com/upload/G540 REV3 MANUAL.pdf
[18:52:24] <jmkasunich> motors suitable for use with gecko can be 4, 6, or 8 - geckos (and other bipolar drivers) can't use 5-wire motors
[18:52:55] <tom3p> oops sorry kakeman ( 6 wire bipolar?) ng for you
[18:53:21] <tom3p> i dot see that in the pdf i dloaded, but ok
[19:08:35] <tom3p> kakeman: i think that you can ignore the center tap and you have 4 wires, thats a simple bipolar now. sorry!
[19:11:22] <tom3p> http://www.xylotex.com/Windings.pdf
[19:54:39] <tom3p> 2 n /
[20:10:58] <Guest391> Hi @all
[20:11:24] <Guest391> i have some problems setting up emc with a remote client over a network
[20:12:18] <Guest391> is there anybody who has expirences about setting up emc using a remote client?
[20:12:42] <SWPadnos> a remote NML client, a remote X client, remote desktop ... ?
[20:13:01] <SWPadnos> there are several ways to do it
[20:13:18] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[20:13:36] <Guest391> a remote nml client
[20:13:55] <Guest391> i started the server running on a rt linux
[20:14:16] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:14:36] <SWPadnos> I have done this before, but it has been a while. it may take me a few minutes to answer questions :)
[20:15:10] <Guest391> ok that's better then no answer ;-)
[20:15:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:16:03] <Guest391> when i start xemc on my remote client it shows me errors like 'shmctl: Invalid argument'
[20:16:18] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[20:17:07] <SWPadnos> I thought there was a sample config with remote access, but I don't see it at the moment
[20:17:56] <Guest391> i used the sample config found at ./configs/common/client.nml
[20:18:18] <SWPadnos> ah, client and server.nml
[20:19:23] <SWPadnos> actually, the problem could be in xemc, have you tried a different UI?
[20:19:31] <SWPadnos> I think xemc is not well maintained
[20:20:08] <Guest391> not yet. but give a few minutes. i will try
[20:48:43] <Guest391> so i tried axis and get the following message 'waiting for s.axes'. the message repeates about 100 times and then axis aborts with 'Invalid configuration of axes is preventing EMC from starting'
[20:49:12] <alex_joni> Guest391: sounds like your ini is having problems
[20:49:23] <alex_joni> especially the number/names of AXES you defined
[20:50:21] <alex_joni> Guest391: what rt linux did you use?
[20:51:32] <Guest391> on the server side i use the emc ubuntu 6.06 on the client side runs a non realtime debian
[20:51:46] <alex_joni> ok, sounds good
[20:52:05] <alex_joni> any special config? or is it a regular 3 axes machine? (e.g. XYZ) ?
[20:52:14] <alex_joni> can you pastebin the configs?
[20:52:25] <Guest391> it is a regular 3 axis machine
[20:52:37] <Guest391> the configs may take a minute
[20:52:47] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, the "special" thing is that he's trying to do remote GUI via remote NML
[20:53:00] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I saw that
[20:53:22] <SWPadnos> ok :)
[20:53:25] <alex_joni> the waiting for s.axes is however related to number of axes and talking to task
[20:53:30] <SWPadnos> hmm
[20:53:41] <alex_joni> so if it's a regular 3-axes machine, then probably the comms are faulty
[20:53:55] <SWPadnos> but s is emc status, which will be empty (or something) if the remote NML connection isn't working
[20:54:07] <SWPadnos> and xemc had some other error also
[20:54:27] <SWPadnos> one important thing for AXIS is to disable its connection to HAL
[20:54:46] <SWPadnos> I don't remember exactly how to do that though (some ini or environment setting like AXIS_NO_HAL)
[20:54:53] <alex_joni> weeell.. if he did a simulation compile, it can run
[20:55:00] <alex_joni> it will just connect to a local HAL
[20:55:42] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: s = emc.stat();
[20:55:42] <alex_joni> s.poll()
[20:55:42] <alex_joni> statfail=0
[20:55:42] <alex_joni> while s.axes == 0:
[20:55:43] <alex_joni> print "waiting for s.axes"
[20:56:05] <SWPadnos> I think that's consistent with getting no status
[20:57:53] <alex_joni> yup
[21:06:26] <jimbo132> on the Mesa 7i32 the OUTx I am assuming go to the SERVO+ and I connect any grnd to the SERVO-. The ENCx are for the encoders. Not sure what the IDXx inputs are for? can they be used as any input? And then I have the ENx that are ouputs to enable the servo amps or are they assignable?
[21:09:43] <SWPadnos> IDXx are encoder index inputs
[21:10:10] <SWPadnos> I don't think you can use them for anything else, but it's possible you can disable the index function
[21:10:16] <SWPadnos> (I don't think so, but it's possible)
[21:11:08] <jepler> I'm not sure 7i32 is compatible with hostmot2
[21:11:30] <jimbo132> My encoders do not have an index that I know of so I will have to disable this.
[21:11:49] <jimbo132> Sorry I mean 7i33
[21:12:52] <SWPadnos> you don't need to disable the function (which I believe is impossible anyway), you would just (a) not connect those inputs or (b) tie them high/low
[21:13:46] <jimbo132> Ok makes that makes sense I would not want them to float. On the servo connections does this make sense/
[21:13:50] <jimbo132> .
[21:15:19] <SWPadnos> yeah, OUTx should be +, but I think you may want to pair the specific ground
[21:15:35] <SWPadnos> unless you bus all the grounds together. the outputs might be isolated
[21:15:48] <SWPadnos> (can't remember, too lazy to look :) )
[21:16:15] <jimbo132> The manual from mesa has no info on this....
[21:21:14] <SWPadnos> it doesn't look isolated to me
[21:22:01] <jimbo132> I will call Mesa tomorrow...
[21:22:35] <SWPadnos> or email tonight :)
[21:23:26] <jimbo132> Email is good :). Next is the 7i37 I am assuming that I can take 4 inputs and use them for my rotary encoder...quadratic inputs?
[21:26:10] <roh> jimbo132 i dont know about mesa, but emc can do that, yes.
[21:27:09] <SWPadnos> quadrature, and you can do that if you like
[21:27:38] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,24/id,369/limit,6/limitstart,30/lang,en/#465
[21:28:02] <SWPadnos> you can do it either by enabling an extra encoder (if you're using a bitfile with more servo channels than you need), or you can do software encoder counting using the pins as GPIO
[21:29:36] <SWPadnos> BigJohnT, have you asked whether the requested spindle speed and pitch should go higher than maxvel?
[21:29:48] <jimbo132> Thanks....
[21:29:50] <SWPadnos> (I didn't read the whole thread)
[21:29:59] <SWPadnos> (no pun intended :) )
[21:40:36] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: didn't think of that
[21:54:57] <BigJohnT> I thought I saw somewhere that hm2.stepgen had a velocity input... but I don't see it now
[21:57:17] <SWPadnos> only if you set it to velocity mode on the loadrt line
[21:58:18] <BigJohnT> I see how to do that for the EMC stepgen but not for the hm2 stepgen... is it the same
[21:58:28] <SWPadnos> probably not
[22:00:09] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[22:00:25] <SWPadnos> the pin may be created no matter what - it's called xxx.velocity-cmd
[22:00:47] <SWPadnos> and you select it with xxx.control-type
[22:03:33] <BigJohnT> thanks, I finally found it... I was looking in man pages and parameters etc not in pins
[22:03:53] <SWPadnos> I just looked at the source :)
[22:04:44] <SWPadnos> bbl
[22:14:23] <jimbo132> On the X axis my mill has two limit switches, one is the table limit but the other I do not know what it is. For right half of the table there is no contact. Staring at center it makes contact for the left hand side of the table. Any clue?
[22:18:39] <BigJohnT> is it a home switch?
[22:19:09] <jmkasunich> sounds like a home switch to me
[22:19:47] <jmkasunich> the home position is in the center, and it makes contact all the way to the left so if you are already on it when you hit "home", it knows that and can back off
[22:19:54] <jmkasunich> EMC will work correctly with that kind of switch
[22:20:17] <jimbo132> Great I have them on all Axis...
[22:43:09] <kakeman> i don't have any idea how many ampers i need for one stepper
[22:43:20] <kakeman> *amperes
[23:02:25] <kakeman> hmm
[23:02:31] <kakeman> confused
[23:02:45] <kakeman> so i do everything else first
[23:05:51] <Jymmm> WooHoo!!! http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=7987572&subid=26096648&type=
[23:17:04] <tom3p> "double ended rod to catch bigger fish" erman?
[23:19:03] <Jymmm> It's over 30 years old
[23:20:04] <Jymmm> original commercial... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fh_YwAnv7w
[23:20:40] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCfElzRAlKE&NR=1
[23:21:42] <tom3p> started on Maxwell Street, in Chicago
[23:23:00] <tom3p> http://www.shanachie.com/artist/videos/maxwell.htm
[23:26:40] <Jymmm> what started?
[23:26:51] <tom3p> ah, heres the rationale for the stepper supply voltage http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1618 ( why its so much higher than the value found on the motor )
[23:28:32] <skunkworks> jepler: did you get to take some time off to play with your zenbot?
[23:48:51] <jepler> skunkworks: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/zenbot-servo-untuned.png