#emc | Logs for 2009-06-10

[00:00:19] <sliptonic> Is the wiki editable by anyone or do I need to have an account. I'd be happy to add a note to the example.
[00:01:01] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[00:01:07] <SWPadnos> ^^ editing information
[00:01:13] <Lerman__> SWPadnos: Do you know the status of cradek's non-gouge cutter compensation?
[00:01:18] <sliptonic> Thanks SWPadnos.
[00:01:32] <SWPadnos> sliptonic, sure - enjoy
[00:01:51] <SWPadnos> Lerman__, no, I don't know what the status is
[00:02:19] <SWPadnos> last I knew there were a couple of corner cases (no pun intended) left to be dealt with
[00:14:31] <dan1mal> hello
[00:16:07] <dan1mal> quick g code question... i'm getting an error while opening a program... it says bad character "a" used
[00:16:30] <dan1mal> any clue what to replace a with?
[00:16:40] <SWPadnos> you probably have a 3-axis machine, or at least one that has no A axis
[00:17:25] <SWPadnos> if you just want to see what the code does, you can start a 4 or more axis sim config and load it
[00:18:16] <SWPadnos> (if it fits within the machine limits, of course)
[00:18:29] <dan1mal> deffinately doesnt have an a axis, wow cant believe i didnt pick up on that... it thinks it needs to rotate the part
[00:18:43] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:18:47] <dan1mal> long day, thanks!
[00:18:57] <dan1mal> couldnt figure out what the a was for lol
[00:19:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:20:50] <dan1mal> oh i know what i did... i think i didnt change my plane properly in mastercam... all i had to do was delete the a90. and it's fine. thanks again
[00:21:07] <SWPadnos> sure
[01:38:55] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: I think you are my 6th degree person to get me to feist. ;)
[01:39:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:39:36] <SWPadnos> do you think she knows any of the Phish guys?
[01:39:36] <skunkworks> cradek: your drives on the bridgeport are nc400's?
[01:39:58] <SWPadnos> or anyone from Supertramp?
[01:40:19] <SWPadnos> or anyone in "The Horse Flies"?
[01:40:28] <skunkworks> good question - better question is - how do you know people from supertramp?
[01:40:39] <SWPadnos> (it might be more than 6 degrees for any of my film world associates)
[01:40:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:41:08] <SWPadnos> the father of a friend from high school is friends with a couple of the guys in Supertramp
[01:41:27] <SWPadnos> like, close enough friends that my friend spent the summer with one of them
[01:41:53] <SWPadnos> and also got us tickets and backstage passes when they played relatively near here
[01:42:00] <SWPadnos> a loooooong time ago
[01:42:28] <skunkworks> Nice! ;)
[01:42:58] <SWPadnos> yep, that was fun
[01:43:26] <SWPadnos> it turns out another friend of mine toured with one of the Phish guys last year (don't recall which one)
[01:44:00] <SWPadnos> and another friend worked on a movie that The Horse Flies did the soundtrack for, so he worked with them on track selection and order for the album
[01:44:19] <skunkworks> My wife says (when she heard you know phish) - when you're there I sleep lengthwise and when you're gone I sleep diagonal in my bed.
[01:44:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:44:45] <SWPadnos> from "Lengthwise", or "Lengthwise, reprise"
[01:45:05] <SWPadnos> is that album maned "Horse"
[01:45:09] <SWPadnos> named
[01:45:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:45:26] <SWPadnos> oh, Hoist
[01:45:36] <SWPadnos> there's a song named Horse on it I guess
[01:45:38] <skunkworks> yes - she agrees ;)
[01:45:53] <SWPadnos> great typo though - maned horse :)
[01:46:02] <skunkworks> we laughed ;)
[01:46:20] <skunkworks> cradek: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82659&page=2
[01:46:28] <SWPadnos> I may end up going to a Beyonce concert in a couple of months
[01:46:33] <SWPadnos> that should be strange
[01:47:37] <skunkworks> yes. wife got into the twilight series (it seems to be a cult) :) (ok maybe I did also) and now we need to see if some of the soundtrack bands are touring.
[01:47:56] <SWPadnos> oh man. almost everyone at the MTV awards was from Twilight
[01:48:00] <SWPadnos> or "The Hills"
[01:48:03] <skunkworks> heh
[01:48:07] <SWPadnos> (neither of which I had ever heard of)
[01:48:58] <SWPadnos> what's really funny is that some of the guys who work at MTV also don't know who the heck all these people are :)
[01:49:54] <skunkworks> that is funny
[02:25:07] <cradek> skunkworks: yes, looks familiar
[02:27:16] <cradek> they are velocity mode. I'm sure if we
[02:27:26] <cradek> we'd see a better picture of the motor we'd see a tach
[02:27:47] <cradek> velocity mode + scales might just work as-is if tuned carefully
[02:30:22] <cradek> you can see the screw terminals for the servo amp hookups. that's where to stick the mesa hardware... easy as pie.
[06:55:20] <KimK> Are there issues with changing the default values of ClassicLadder? The manual's loadrt classicladder_rt with arguments does not seem to be working for me, it errors out. It works fine with no arguments. Any advice?
[09:36:46] <Valen> Question for the brain trust, Whats the general opinion on tilting the head for a 5th axis? rather than stacking rotary tables
[09:37:18] <archivist> also valid
[09:37:39] <Valen> better? worse? any paticular gotchas?
[09:37:58] <archivist> I think just different
[09:38:15] <Valen> I was thinking it might be a little better because your "stacking" fewer axes
[09:39:26] <alex_joni> Valen: depends on the load you have
[09:39:45] <Valen> decent size mill
[09:39:47] <alex_joni> usually you need "twice" the load on A if you are stacking B ontop
[09:40:08] <alex_joni> whereas you probably are good enough with a smaller A and smaller B on the head
[09:40:10] <archivist> an angled hole requires more axis coordination
[09:40:27] <alex_joni> archivist: that's true, but you can do it with kins in emc2
[09:40:42] <Valen> http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/62_M45_CNC/M45Cnc-e.htm thats about the size mill we have
[09:40:45] <alex_joni> using UVW coordinates for the actual milling/drilling
[09:40:59] <Valen> I was thinking of putting one axis on the table then the other on the head
[09:42:26] <alex_joni> sometimes it's not possible to put one on the head
[09:42:31] <alex_joni> technically I mean
[09:42:39] <Valen> we are going to put a new head on it
[09:42:50] <archivist> one thing to watch, X Y travels to get the item under the tool, its my main problem
[09:42:51] <Valen> put a spindle in place of the motor+gearbox combo
[09:43:53] <archivist> make that X Y Z travels
[09:44:31] <Valen> you have stacked rotaries yes?
[09:44:32] <archivist> couldnt do the simplest small job yesterday
[09:44:40] <archivist> yes
[09:45:10] <Valen> My main concern is hitting the head on the bed/job
[09:45:32] <Valen> I spose there shouldn't really be much of a difference in terms of that with stacked vs split
[09:46:15] <archivist> I wanted to drill 8 holes on 3 sides of a bracket and just could not fit a drill chuck and drill and get rotation and get under the centerline
[09:47:10] <archivist> and morse collets dont come in odd sizes
[09:47:28] <micges1> micges1 is now known as micges_emc
[09:47:38] <alex_joni> Valen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EYaM4FkASA
[09:47:49] <archivist> spindle /head hitting stuff is also a problem
[09:48:53] <Valen> alex_joni thats what i was thinking, although I had the rotary table at 90 degrees to that for some reason
[09:48:58] <Valen> (in my mind)
[09:51:11] <Valen> what are you guys using for the rotary drives?
[09:51:35] <alex_joni> I think cradek used some turntables there
[09:52:09] <Valen> and is there anything other than harmonic drives that actually works without backlash?
[09:52:33] <Valen> (and is practical lol, anti-backlashing worm drives seems like a painfull way of doing things)
[09:52:45] <archivist> I use rotary tables and am careful with the gcode so I work one way
[09:53:12] <Valen> I'm hoping to use CAD to generate the G-code so i dont know if i can enforce that
[09:53:17] <archivist> and accept the backlash as a fact of life
[09:54:20] <Valen> Going to great troubles to eliminate backlash in the rest of our system, it'd suck to integrate it now lol
[09:56:59] <archivist> I keep moving the tables to get in range for a cut so kins is not yet an option for me
[10:00:37] <archivist> its why I started drawing up a complete new machine, but cant afford the metal at the moment
[10:01:02] <Valen> what you planning for the new machine?
[10:03:45] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:03:56] <Valen> zupskies
[10:06:42] <archivist> Valen, layout similar to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bearbeitungszentrum_Schnittmodel_Hermle_02.jpg
[10:08:07] <Valen> heavy duty
[10:08:54] <Valen> whats the big round thing behind the spindle? tool changer?
[10:10:03] <archivist> yes and methods ally plate similar to http://jmkasunich.com/pics/imgp2931.jpg
[10:10:40] <archivist> so all parts are manageable on smaller machine
[10:11:38] <Valen> I wonder about a direct drive stepper style system for the rotary axes (on a larger scale machine)
[10:11:57] <Valen> I heard some manufacturer had something like that out there
[10:12:53] <archivist> I found out that you can get gauge plate aluminium its ground to thickness, so should be not too hard to make a good machine
[10:20:50] <Valen> its the right thickness but is it flat?
[10:21:14] <Valen> (Assuming your depending on it being flat rather than doing arcane stuff to make it so ;->
[10:23:03] <archivist> I only need the edges really square and flat
[10:25:13] <Valen> It seems that once you have one CnC machine making the next one is *much* easier ;->
[10:25:53] <archivist> and I could just buy in from a local jig company with cnc capacity the cut shaped parts
[10:26:11] <Valen> not quite the same though is it lol
[10:26:50] <archivist> well x y travels of 90mm and 120 mm are far too small to make anything big
[10:27:08] <Valen> oh yeah that might be a teensy bit small
[10:27:09] <archivist> its seriously limited at the moment
[10:27:26] <Valen> If you "de-rotaried" it would you gain much travel?
[10:27:34] <archivist> pathetic comes to mind
[10:27:42] <archivist> no
[10:27:49] <archivist> none
[10:28:39] <archivist> base x y was from a tool setting jig never designed for real work
[13:04:40] <skunkworks637> skunkworks637 is now known as skunkworks_
[15:50:13] <Valen> ey if your interested in harmonic drives, this is a pretty good video on them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1v7a0jsp1I
[16:03:15] <archivist> I wonder what the cost is
[16:03:45] <Valen> harmonic drives? lotsa$ ebay seems to have them ~$300 or so
[16:04:21] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1uyvF-1AM4&NR=1 direct drive
[17:07:33] <SWPadnos> woo! now that was a good deal: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220431109070
[17:08:43] <cradek> wow
[17:11:28] <SWPadnos> that seller has several other boards stuffed with modules - IAC5, IDC5, and ODC5, same price
[17:11:52] <BJT-Work> 100% positive feedback
[17:12:06] <SWPadnos> I wonder if I should buy another one :)
[17:12:49] <SWPadnos> I think I have enough of the other module types though
[17:14:31] <Jymmmm> 5A ?
[17:14:46] <Jymmmm> and AC only?
[17:15:38] <SWPadnos> no, they're 5V activation, AC output
[17:43:52] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi folks! Don't forget to identify to your grouped nicks and check that your channels won't be dropped tomorrow (Thurs 11 June)! See http://bit.ly/10nqla for details. Thanks for using freenode and have a nice evening.
[20:23:49] <anonimasu> did anyone use synergy for toolpathing?
[20:24:50] <cradek> I know at least one emc2 user uses it
[20:26:30] <anonimasu> how well does it work for toolpathign?
[20:26:33] <anonimasu> err toolpathing?
[20:26:41] <cradek> I don't know, sorry
[20:26:46] <anonimasu> know who?
[20:27:05] <cradek> dave engvall is the emc2 user who I know uses it
[20:27:17] <anonimasu> does he ever show up on irc?
[20:27:21] <cradek> yes sometimes
[20:27:28] <anonimasu> I should ask him how it works
[20:27:45] <anonimasu> im pondering if it works well enough to purchase the smallest version for toolpathing for the mill at work..
[20:27:47] <cradek> I think he likes it, but I know it generates some bad gcode he has to always clean up
[20:28:02] <cradek> I think there's a demo you could try
[20:28:16] <anonimasu> hm, I'm gonna do that, and im gonna ask them if there's a heidenhain post..
[20:28:28] <anonimasu> (im a bit curious about lathe functionality too)
[20:28:38] <anonimasu> I need a lathe first :]
[20:28:44] <cradek> I heard someone say lately that it has a "proper" emc2 post now, but I'll believe it when I see it :-)
[20:29:05] <anonimasu> well, with purchase they customize posts.. so :)
[20:29:08] <anonimasu> might be possible
[20:30:08] <anonimasu> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14880
[20:32:11] <anonimasu> alex_joni: drop me a pm when you wake up
[20:32:12] <anonimasu> :)
[20:34:42] <anonimasu> I have a weld question :)
[20:34:53] <cradek> System or Post Processor Customization = $600.00 US per day
[20:35:04] <cradek> so I think you might be mistaken :-/
[20:35:11] <anonimasu> check the package deals
[20:35:28] <anonimasu> Up to 2 Customized Post Processors (Limit: 8 hours customization time)
[20:35:41] <anonimasu> CAM includes
[20:35:42] <cradek> ahh
[20:35:59] <cradek> neat.
[20:36:12] <anonimasu> as I see it, at 250$ I
[20:36:26] <anonimasu> I'd gladly pay it out of my own pocket so I can just stuff cad files into it..
[20:36:37] <anonimasu> and make my operations and just go to the mill and run them
[20:38:32] <SWPadnos> hey. I didn't know they had a parasolid kernel now - cool
[20:39:23] <anonimasu> im thinking it's faster then messing around at the mill doing online programming for alot of stuff..
[20:39:45] <anonimasu> as most stuff ends up as a drawing before being made anyway :)
[20:40:43] <anonimasu> atleast for things needing more then 10 holes :)
[20:49:42] <jimbo> Does anybody know if madCAM has a post processor for EMC2?
[20:52:00] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68920&highlight=madcam+emc2
[20:53:20] <anonimasu> * anonimasu downloads caelinux
[20:54:55] <jimbo> I take it thats a NO...
[20:55:06] <anonimasu> you could try making one
[21:02:36] <jimbo> Wiring no problem, Circuits and Circuit boards No Problem, UNIX and Linux No problem, "C" good but not great get done what i want, Post processor and Gcode not A clue.
[21:11:22] <jepler> jimbo: you will greatly benefit from learning at least a little bit of g-code if you're going to operate a mill with emc. G0, G1: rapid and cutting motion. X, Y, Z: specify coordinates. F: specify feed rate (speed of cutting motions). M3 S: turn spindle on. M5: turn spindle off M2: end of program
[21:13:25] <jepler> with that, plus a manual explaining madcam's syntax for posts, you can probably write an emc2-compatible post
[21:13:38] <jepler> if that doesn't sound like a fun or productive way to spend your time, fair enough..
[21:15:47] <toastydeath> there has to be a better way to get A taper chucks off the spindle nose than just wrestling them
[21:15:55] <toastydeath> and I wish someone would tell me what that is
[21:17:36] <jepler> when using letters to designate different shapes or sizes of a similar object, "A" should not be used
[21:17:48] <jepler> it's very hard to google for "a taper" and find what you're looking for
[21:18:15] <anonimasu> toastydeath: hit the drawbar..
[21:18:21] <anonimasu> toastydeath: that's the only way I know of...
[21:18:56] <skunkworks_> jepler: they say conitous torque at 25deg C without heatsink... So - I thing you should also make some nice heatsinks and see what kind of torque you can get out of them ;)
[21:19:00] <archivist> * archivist admits to a sharp tap on the draw bar
[21:19:15] <anonimasu> if you change to a ISO taper it gets better ^_^
[21:20:32] <jepler> skunkworks_: by the way, cradek talked me into doing a 2.16:1 reduction with toothed belts and pulleys. I ordered parts for that today, which cost more than the motors
[21:21:08] <anonimasu> im toolpathing the plate for my tool changer :)
[21:21:09] <anonimasu> now
[21:21:58] <skunkworks_> jepler: heh - did you find some toothed pullys that fit the shaft? or are you going to bore them out?
[21:22:20] <jepler> skunkworks_: cradek thinks he can bore them out
[21:22:28] <skunkworks_> I am sure he can :)
[21:22:55] <anonimasu> :)
[21:24:33] <jepler> and in the process of figuring this out I'm learning a thing or two, which is also good
[21:25:34] <jepler> the mounts will look more or less like this http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/pulley-mount.png with the servo motor sticking out towards you on the left and the leadscrew pointing away from you on the right .. all the distances are slightly different than shown there, and the hole sizes aren't accurate.
[21:26:32] <toastydeath> anonimasu: the drawbar isn't the problem, it's making sure the 90-100 lb chuck up with one hand as you take the last bolt out, and then trying to get it unstuck
[21:26:41] <toastydeath> *stays up
[21:26:49] <toastydeath> there has to be a better way
[21:27:06] <archivist> toastydeath, small crane arm
[21:27:14] <toastydeath> yeah, that's probably the best idea
[21:27:55] <archivist> mill I used once had one built in for the vertical head
[21:28:07] <anonimasu> toastydeath: there isnt one
[21:28:10] <anonimasu> change to a better taper
[21:28:13] <anonimasu> :/
[21:28:19] <toastydeath> better taper than A?
[21:28:24] <toastydeath> if such a thing exists =/
[21:28:30] <anonimasu> you are using mk taper right?
[21:28:36] <toastydeath> mk?
[21:28:40] <anonimasu> morse taper..
[21:28:59] <toastydeath> no, this is an A-8 spindle taper
[21:29:02] <toastydeath> A2-8
[21:29:30] <anonimasu> I see
[21:29:51] <toastydeath> no taper on the inside of the spindle at all
[21:29:57] <toastydeath> just the drawbar
[21:31:09] <anonimasu> hm, that I dont know about
[21:32:01] <toastydeath> A series is very, very rigid, but the chuck is either stuck on the nose, or falling off
[21:32:10] <anonimasu> I see
[21:32:13] <toastydeath> there's no middle ground (as it's a very short taper, something like 3/4" long)
[21:34:11] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:37:16] <anonimasu> my big issue now, is that I need a probe..
[21:37:17] <anonimasu> :)
[21:37:59] <toastydeath> beep boop
[21:38:51] <anonimasu> http://www.imsrv.com/deskcnc/probe.htm
[21:38:52] <anonimasu> one of thoose
[21:39:52] <toastydeath> yeah
[21:39:55] <toastydeath> those are sweet
[21:40:28] <anonimasu> im gonna order one
[21:40:38] <anonimasu> if I can get a price
[21:43:33] <anonimasu> then the next issue is getting the heid to talk to it..
[21:44:07] <anonimasu> mailed them :)=
[21:44:27] <jepler> cradek: I see on your sherline lathe that the motors are pittman 9413. I found a datasheet for the GM9413 (gearbox model), and I think the motor without the gearbox is about 3.14 oz-in continuous torque @ 2700rpm. My motors are about 3x that, 9.5 oz-in @ 4400rpm. (calculation: 15 oz-in out of gearbox / 5.9 reduction ratio / 0.81 efficiency = 3.1... oz-in at motor)
[21:45:04] <anonimasu> toastydeath: I see it paying itself after setting up a single part.. :)
[21:45:12] <jepler> http://astromechbuilder.com/mechloader/d/27067-1/GM9413_1.pdf
[21:45:44] <toastydeath> anonimasu: ?
[21:45:47] <anonimasu> toastydeath: probe
[21:45:54] <anonimasu> :)
[21:45:57] <anonimasu> tp-100
[21:46:00] <toastydeath> right
[21:46:19] <toastydeath> i guess i think of probes more as in-process gaging
[21:46:45] <anonimasu> hehe, I want one for finding centers of holes
[21:47:18] <archivist> I use a rotating dti for holes
[21:47:21] <anonimasu> jog down into the hole, hit the probe macro.. call the cycle to bore it out..
[21:47:50] <toastydeath> i use an edge finder
[21:48:38] <anonimasu> I do too, but a probe would be faster and more accurate
[21:49:18] <anonimasu> jogging 0.005mm until it lights up.. is pretty annoying
[21:49:37] <anonimasu> :)
[21:50:07] <toastydeath> huh?
[21:50:18] <anonimasu> if you are finding the center of a hole..
[21:50:21] <toastydeath> yeah
[21:50:28] <toastydeath> what part of an edge finder lights up
[21:50:34] <anonimasu> I have a electronic one
[21:50:37] <toastydeath> oh
[21:50:55] <anonimasu> and it's not super repeatable..
[21:51:09] <anonimasu> well, repeatable enough, but it takes time..
[21:51:14] <toastydeath> i have a plain starrett edgefinder
[21:51:16] <anonimasu> :)
[21:51:21] <toastydeath> 50 bucks, accurate to about .0002
[21:51:38] <toastydeath> so figure .0002-.0004 for a hole center
[21:51:55] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:52:11] <anonimasu> that's good
[21:53:01] <toastydeath> edgefinders are one of those tools that I'll readily buy the most expensive one I can find because they work so much better than the cheap ones
[21:53:09] <anonimasu> yep
[21:53:11] <toastydeath> plus the difference is only like 20 bucks
[21:53:14] <toastydeath> from best to worst
[21:54:04] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:29:35] <maddash> is it just me or has google changed its green to a brighter shade?