#emc | Logs for 2009-06-01

[02:40:00] <L84Supper_> L84Supper_ is now known as L84Supper
[03:03:48] <roh> hmm.. anybody a idea if this pump can handle running dry? http://www.tradeindia.com/selloffer/1737612/Single-Phase-Induction-Motor.html
[03:06:12] <cradek> I bet it's fine
[03:06:29] <cradek> it just has a whirly thing that spins at the bottom
[03:06:47] <cradek> coolant pumps are designed to run with any flow including none
[03:12:18] <roh> cool
[03:12:47] <roh> because i just wired mine up... 'just' need to find a proper source of coolant still
[03:18:30] <Danimal> trimsol
[03:18:40] <Danimal> non synthetic
[03:20:37] <Danimal> man i'm beat
[03:20:53] <cradek> wish I knew how to pick the best coolant
[03:20:58] <cradek> I suppose they're all fine for what I do
[03:21:13] <cradek> (and I'm sure they all rust and get slimy)
[03:23:06] <Danimal> trim sol
[03:23:18] <Danimal> best stuff i've used over my career
[03:24:04] <Danimal> shouldnt rust, unless you use too much water
[03:24:16] <Danimal> should keep it at 7%
[03:26:16] <Danimal> just dont get the synthetic stuff, it foams up
[03:27:16] <roh> Danimal the question remains where to buy such stuff here in europe-
[03:27:55] <Danimal> they have europe-only formulas, so i'm sure they sell it there
[03:28:29] <roh> urgh... http://www.masterchemical.com/eu_en/fluid_products/ctgf/show_category.php?catid=2
[03:28:35] <roh> so many choices
[03:28:49] <Danimal> http://www.masterchemical.com/eu_en/distributors/index.php
[03:29:26] <Danimal> yea, the cheapest will work
[03:32:26] <Danimal> a fish tank aerator will help keep bacteria from growing, which makes it smell like feet
[03:33:07] <Danimal> but as long as you dont leak way lube of spindle oil in it, that shouldnt happen
[03:35:03] <roh> Danimal just went through the list.. seems there are only 'single persons', no serious companies with websites even mentioning these products
[03:35:44] <roh> how much should such stuff cost?
[03:36:31] <roh> ive only seen some other stuff at our wholesale, which was like 100-200E for 5 litre...
[03:42:26] <SkinnYPuP> roh, search ebay for spindkool
[03:42:41] <roh> heh.. it seems i found out why
[03:42:43] <roh> http://www.r-a-werkzeuge.de/hangsterfers.html
[03:43:07] <roh> they are local so i guess they simply owned the market here
[03:50:07] <Danimal> it's about $600-700 us for a 55 gallon drum
[03:50:20] <Danimal> not sure on a 5 gallon cost
[03:50:32] <roh> SkinnYPuP not a single hit
[03:52:29] <Danimal> 5 gallons will make like 60-80 gallons of coolant
[03:52:32] <Danimal> when mixed
[03:52:51] <roh> 55 us gal is about 208 litre.. and 700 us$ is about 496Euro..mmh
[03:52:57] <roh> still expensive stuff
[03:53:18] <Danimal> it is expensive, but there is a reason most shops use it out here
[03:54:00] <roh> i have a 30x20x20 cm box.. that makes about 12Litres
[03:54:54] <Danimal> $110 for a 5 gallon container of it
[03:55:07] <Danimal> $30 for 1 gallon
[03:55:15] <Danimal> us
[03:57:43] <Danimal> i was able to consolidate my stepper drivers and power supply ito a much smaller box in a more convenient place today
[03:57:53] <Danimal> machine looks LOADS better
[03:58:18] <Danimal> got rid of the whole old control box, which was huge
[06:45:40] <roh> nice... my simple chargepump seems to work
[08:24:36] <roh> n8
[08:44:33] <Valen> hey hey everybody
[08:44:40] <Valen> got a question fer yers.
[08:45:00] <Valen> I just got my shiny new 5I22 card from mesa
[08:45:16] <Valen> can i hook that up to my mill as a servo driven doodad with encoders etc
[08:45:42] <Valen> and then simultaniously have it connected to the lathe, where it will just be reading some linear scales and acting as a DRO?
[09:13:14] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:17:56] <Valen> zup
[09:24:59] <EbiDK|AWAY> Hey hey
[09:25:33] <EbiDK|AWAY> Anyone about with a good idea of the prices on mills suitable for making SMD PCBs?
[09:26:15] <EbiDK|AWAY> I've decided to save up instead of building one so now I need a good estimate for my budget.
[09:27:10] <EbiDK|AWAY> I'm looking to do 160x100mm PCBs, maybe 320x200mm too if the price difference is not too big
[09:27:57] <Valen> how many you thinking of making?
[09:28:05] <EbiDK|AWAY> Err obviously I'm looking for a CNC one in case anyone was wondering :p
[09:28:22] <Valen> no, i want to see you do it on a manual mill ;->
[09:28:44] <EbiDK|AWAY> Valen: Dunno, but I'm planning on making all my PCBs on it instead of messing around with annoying chemicals
[09:29:03] <Valen> I didn't find the chemical process that bad
[09:29:10] <EbiDK|AWAY> hehe, I'd like to see me do that too but it's not happening :p
[09:29:10] <Valen> i use toner transfer
[09:30:34] <Valen> I have seen somebody use the CnC on a regular mill for doing pick n place too
[09:30:51] <EbiDK|AWAY> Actually, nm the 320x200mm PCBs, it'd be so rare that I'd want to work on that size that it'd be a waste of money and space with the extra size.
[09:31:06] <EbiDK|AWAY> Nice
[09:31:25] <Valen> about 400x slower than the "real" pnp machines but still
[09:31:52] <EbiDK|AWAY> Could be done somewhat easily with some specialized tools and no spindle rotation
[09:31:58] <EbiDK|AWAY> Not going to do that though :p
[09:32:13] <Valen> actually the way he did it was pretty clever
[09:32:32] <Valen> just a light vacuume line with a needle
[09:32:39] <EbiDK|AWAY> Yup
[09:33:01] <Valen> sucked onto the chip, then he went into a square box type thing to center the part by driving up against 2 walls
[09:40:13] <EbiDK|AWAY> How does 1300 EUR sound? Too much? Too little?
[09:42:49] <Valen> whats that in $us?
[09:42:59] <Valen> or $aus if you know it ;->
[09:44:53] <EbiDK|AWAY> 10000 DKK = 1343 EUR = 1897 USD = 2357 AUD = 1171 GBP
[09:46:45] <Valen> is that the complete system or the base mill pre conversoin?
[09:47:01] <Valen> for a complete turnkey system it seems ok
[09:47:25] <Valen> for that price you can get a pretty large metal mill which is probvably overkill for PCB routing
[09:47:39] <EbiDK|AWAY> Hmm
[09:48:09] <Valen> (and then spend another $1k-2k CnCing it ;->)
[09:48:19] <EbiDK|AWAY> Think I could get a nice CNC desktop mill that'd do both PCBs and aluminum for that?
[09:48:32] <Valen> I'd imagne so
[09:48:37] <Valen> be light on the Aluminium
[09:50:30] <EbiDK|AWAY> Oh and I'm looking to get a ready to use system with its own CNC controller or using EMC2 on a PC I already have.
[09:51:40] <EbiDK|AWAY> The workings of the mill is not so interesting to me as what you can make with it so the less physical work I'd have to do to make it work the better.
[10:00:13] <anonimasu> hmmm
[11:10:00] <dpy> hey guys
[11:11:00] <dpy> I was wondering... if I have bipolar stepper driver boards based on L297/L298 is it still possible to try software microstepping using emc?
[11:19:23] <anonimasu> does your drives support microstepping?
[11:20:21] <anonimasu> they seem to do half stepping, so no..
[11:20:25] <anonimasu> nothing less then half stepping
[11:20:58] <dpy> ok
[11:21:20] <dpy> well they can operate in full-stepping
[11:21:36] <dpy> so what if you put them in full stepping and then try microstepping in software
[11:21:50] <anonimasu> your drive steps a full step per input pulse
[11:22:02] <dpy> or is this just absolutely bogus thinking?
[11:22:03] <anonimasu> nothing you input into it will make it step smaller steps
[11:22:05] <anonimasu> eys
[11:22:14] <dpy> ok
[11:22:19] <Valen> I don't know that the micro stepping is any different from the softwares POV
[11:22:51] <anonimasu> ti isnt, it's just a multiplier of steps..
[12:01:09] <JanVanGilsen> What am i doing wrong here?: http://pastebin.ca/1443459
[12:02:27] <JanVanGilsen> the build: http://pastebin.ca/1443472
[12:05:31] <JanVanGilsen> when i try to load it in emc i get following error: insmod: error inserting '<snip>': -1 unknown symbol in module
[12:14:01] <JanVanGilsen> pumaoffset: unknown symbol round (in dmesg)
[12:14:37] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[12:16:49] <tom3p> maybe for 1st err out = (floor(in / distance) * distance) + offset;
[12:17:13] <tom3p> is there a round() in gcc?
[12:32:02] <JanVanGilsen> from rtapi_math.h: extern double round(double);
[12:33:11] <tom3p> JanVanGilsen: sorry, didnt know that, round is commonly missing and hand written.
[12:33:26] <jepler> it looks like no other realtime component uses round()
[12:33:40] <jepler> it also isn't listed in the symbols exported by rtai_math.ko, the limited math library available in realtime
[12:33:56] <tom3p> but, round is not wanted... round down (aka floor) is wanted,
[12:34:15] <tom3p> imo
[12:34:16] <JanVanGilsen> round is wanted :)
[12:34:22] <tom3p> k
[12:35:02] <JanVanGilsen> the estimated position can be before or behind the actual one.
[12:35:51] <JanVanGilsen> i could multiply by 2 convert to an integer , ect ...
[12:38:04] <jepler> the internet suggests an implementation of round(): http://pastebin.ca/1443502
[12:39:00] <JanVanGilsen> i'm not shure that floor works ..
[12:39:08] <JanVanGilsen> i'll check =)
[12:39:35] <jepler> floor and ceil are in rtai_math.ko on my system
[12:39:40] <jepler> whether they work, well....
[12:40:02] <skunkworks_> jepler: any better tracking info on those servos?
[12:41:25] <jepler> skunkworks_: yeah, it eventually showed up
[12:41:37] <jepler> shipped from florida, which it turns out is a different country or something
[12:43:20] <tom3p> find some good small servos?
[12:43:55] <tom3p> florida.. marlin p jones surplus?
[12:44:41] <jepler> tom3p: http://skycraftsurplus.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1877
[12:44:51] <jepler> very small servo
[12:45:05] <jepler> hopefully powerful enough to replace nema 17 steppers on my itty bitty mill
[12:45:48] <tom3p> thx. pittman nice, w encoder
[12:46:10] <tom3p> i think my mill is same size(ish)
[12:46:33] <jepler> dunno yet if the encoder has index, think it's 500CPR based on the "500" on the label
[12:47:29] <tom3p> hp (now agilent) encoder
[12:47:31] <tom3p> The HEDS-5540
[12:47:31] <tom3p> and 5640 also have a third channel
[12:47:31] <tom3p> index output in addition to the
[12:47:31] <tom3p> two channel quadrature.
[12:48:07] <tom3p> i suppose you gotta get it in your hands to see if its that model
[12:48:09] <jepler> they link to a datasheet that covers multiple encoders, but as far as I saw don't specify which encoder is actually there
[12:51:41] <tom3p> thx again
[12:58:09] <JanVanGilsen> x > 0 ? ceil(x-0.5) : floor(x-0.5)
[13:00:01] <JanVanGilsen> oh i might be wrong :)
[13:04:06] <JanVanGilsen> shouldn't ceil(x-0.5) work?
[13:04:28] <harty> hi all just wondering if there was some one there that could give me a hand getting a spindel encoder running on my lathe
[13:38:04] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[13:40:27] <harty> chris im having trouble getting a lathe spindle encoder to work here is my hal file http://pastebin.com/d2cb0f0c
[13:43:34] <cradek> I see you have a full encoder hooked up (three lines), but you have counter mode turned on. the encoder docs say that in counter mode, phase-B is ignored.
[13:43:54] <cradek> what is the trouble behavior anyway?
[13:45:07] <harty> just dont get any movement on g33 for threading runs to ths start postion for the thread and hold there
[13:45:12] <Valen> I just got my shiny new 5I22 card from mesa, can i hook that up to my mill as a servo driven doodad with encoders etc and then simultaniously have it connected to the lathe, where it will just be reading some linear scales and acting as a DRO?
[13:46:29] <harty> in hal scope i get signals on spindle index enable but nothing on spindle index
[13:47:29] <cradek> harty: if you halmeter motion.spindle-revs, you should see it count up by 1.00 for every turn forward on the spindle (the M3 direction)
[13:47:50] <harty> yep get that
[13:48:26] <cradek> are you threading in M3 or M4 direction?
[13:48:35] <harty> m3
[13:48:42] <jepler> you scope signal spindle-index in the base-thread but never see a value other than 0?
[13:49:00] <cradek> net spindle-phase-index encoder.0.phase-Z
[13:49:00] <cradek> net spindle-index <= parport.0.pin-13-in
[13:49:07] <cradek> I notice these do not match
[13:50:25] <harty> what should they be
[13:51:17] <cradek> they have different net names, so the parport index pin signal is not hooked up to the encoder component
[13:51:41] <cradek> doesn't matter what net name you use, but they need to match
[13:52:10] <harty> ok will change and try hang on
[13:56:18] <harty> sweet that fixed it thanks chris i must have looking but not seeing cheers
[13:57:09] <cradek> beware that if you want to tap, you will have to use full encoder mode, not counter mode
[13:57:19] <cradek> welcome, glad it was easy
[14:14:33] <skunkworks_> I hate osb
[14:16:55] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ has extracted a few slivers this morning
[14:33:26] <Danimal> ouch
[14:33:59] <Danimal> i still got one from cleaning out an old electical cabinet covered in filth yesterday
[14:34:09] <Danimal> cant find it, but i can feel it
[14:34:09] <Valen> sucky
[14:34:15] <Valen> dont let em rust ;->
[14:42:37] <skunkworks_> LawrenceG! how is the drive coming?
[14:47:11] <LawrenceG> good... just optimizing the layout of the smart board to go with the drive.... currently, I think it is too dense to mill a PCB on my machine
[14:48:19] <LawrenceG> I am hoping with some wiggling to be able to relax the constraints and make the traces fatter
[14:48:28] <skunkworks_> nice
[14:48:46] <skunkworks_> your going to use the scooter motors for you mill?
[14:50:34] <LawrenceG> I got distracted yesterday and machined a new doorbell button that uses a piece of tubing, some 1/2" plexi and one of the door switches out of a microwave... pictures later... I need to mill the top and bottom caps
[14:50:55] <skunkworks_> neat
[14:51:05] <LawrenceG> I got distracted yesterday and machined a new doorbell button that uses a piece of tubing, some 1/2" plexi and one of the door switches out of a microwave... pictures later... I need to mill the top and bottom caps
[14:51:16] <skunkworks_> neat
[14:51:19] <skunkworks_> ;)
[14:52:36] <LawrenceG> I am going to try them with an external encoder.... they do seem to prefer operation in 1 direction... there is a slight ticking sound of the brushes when running "backwards"
[14:53:32] <LawrenceG> I have not pulled one apart to look at the internals, but the price is right!
[14:55:20] <LawrenceG> and they have a lot of torque (burnt finger test)
[14:57:33] <skunkworks_> heh - yes -they look stout
[14:57:59] <skunkworks_> do they seem to cog much?
[14:59:38] <LawrenceG> yes , they do cog, but about the same as a real servo motor I have that is about the same size
[15:00:16] <skunkworks_> are you direct driving or going to do a belt reduction>
[15:00:17] <skunkworks_> ?
[15:01:18] <LawrenceG> they have a nice 3mm pitch htd belt pulley on the small motor already... belt drive is the most configurable
[15:02:04] <LawrenceG> not many leads screws like to turn at 3000rpm
[15:57:42] <geo01005> Quick off the topic question. Anybody used proximity sensors to sense the presence of a wire (.0625 inch diameter)?
[15:58:46] <geo01005> If so, would you suggest a capacitive type or an inductive type? The wire is copper.
[16:21:48] <Valen> capacatance is probably going to give you more response
[16:22:08] <Valen> inductance might be more reliable if you can get enough difference out of it
[16:24:13] <archivist> use the wire to pull an oscillator off frequency
[16:26:08] <archivist> opto could be more reliable
[16:30:52] <geo01005> hmm, interesting. I'm using the sensor to home the position of a wire, and to sense for no wire(broken/out of wire).
[16:32:17] <geo01005> However the sensor can't contact the wire, and the wire need to be sensed through thin plastic wall (the wire is submerged in a corrosive fluid).
[16:32:34] <geo01005> Thanks for your help Valen and archivist :)
[16:33:33] <archivist> fluid may effect a sensor too, so could be fun
[16:34:20] <geo01005> Yeah I think that the inductive type would be more reliable than a capacitive type... But I'm not sure.
[16:35:27] <archivist> dirt in the fluid will effect any method but by differing amounts
[16:36:59] <geo01005> Well I suppose that the fluid is actually drained from the tank during the homing procedure.
[16:58:24] <anonimasu> toastatwork: you there?
[17:08:56] <toastatwork> anonimasu
[17:08:58] <toastatwork> sort of
[17:09:04] <anonimasu> I see
[17:09:16] <anonimasu> toastatwork: I dont need to mess with the math on the heid
[17:09:53] <anonimasu> not so much
[17:09:57] <anonimasu> I can do LP LQ10 IPA+(degree_increment)
[17:10:35] <anonimasu> Q10 = 50+sin(Q5)
[17:10:40] <anonimasu> repeat for the sine
[17:10:42] <anonimasu> :]
[17:21:53] <toastatwork> hot
[17:22:42] <anonimasu> im testing it on the sim now
[17:47:45] <anonimasu> toastatwork: I have a screenshot up for you read you later baby
[17:47:48] <anonimasu> err wrong place :D
[17:47:54] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/51105
[17:47:56] <anonimasu> there it is..
[17:48:20] <skunkworks_> making sprockets?
[17:48:51] <anonimasu> it's a sine :)
[17:48:56] <anonimasu> curve
[17:50:47] <anonimasu> for one of thoose gearboxes..
[17:54:09] <anonimasu> !l thislog
[17:54:14] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[17:54:14] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-06-01.txt
[17:54:15] <skunkworks_> like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnJCWX2nr4M&feature=channel
[17:54:30] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:54:37] <anonimasu> I forgot the name
[17:54:59] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[17:55:12] <anonimasu> hey tom3p what's up?
[17:55:31] <tom3p> oooh got a new mini mill to carry around on the road
[17:55:38] <tom3p> and you?
[17:56:20] <anonimasu> writing a program to machine a sine curve on a wheel
[17:57:27] <skunkworks_> anonimasu: did you read this thread? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72261&highlight=backlash
[17:57:33] <anonimasu> no I didnt
[18:01:25] <skunkworks_> towards the end - the talk about the hypocycloid
[18:01:34] <tom3p> anonimasu: http://imagebin.ca/view/wcYWz_v.html
[18:01:51] <tom3p> is that a sinus wrapped around a circumference?
[18:02:15] <skunkworks_> tom3p: nice!
[18:02:43] <skunkworks_> you need to set it up to rigid tap also ;)
[18:03:56] <skunkworks_> are the black parts plastic?
[18:04:20] <anonimasu> tom3p: yeah
[18:05:06] <Danimal> man, rigid tapping would be nice. long ways to go before i get there though.
[18:05:43] <tom3p> anonimasu: is a series of short straight lines ok (short like <.25mm)
[18:05:58] <cradek> looks like a slightly-grownup version of zenbot
[18:06:12] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/51107
[18:06:55] <archivist_attic> cradek who did the geared axis stuff Ive been thinking of hobbing needs
[18:07:01] <tom3p> cradek: i think nearly same envelope, but follows the 'everytime i replace plastic with steel mt machine gets better'(quote from a wise man ;)
[18:07:11] <tom3p> mt my
[18:07:20] <anonimasu> ?
[18:08:07] <tom3p> anonimasu: i get the idea now
[18:09:02] <cradek> what do you mean geared stuff?
[18:09:58] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/51108
[18:10:49] <archivist_attic> cradek one axis geared to another
[18:10:59] <archivist_attic> rotaries
[18:10:59] <tom3p> anonimasu: i can see a c axis on table moving 1 period while X underneath moves peak/peak.
[18:11:08] <tom3p> see/imagine
[18:11:13] <anonimasu> no c axis
[18:11:32] <anonimasu> :]
[18:11:40] <cradek> do you mean geared together with gcode, or with encoder_ratio, or some other way?
[18:11:49] <archivist_attic> ive been learning a bit more on the internals of a hobbing machine
[18:12:33] <archivist_attic> will need to be encoder ratio but settable per job outside the gcode
[18:12:49] <tom3p> anonimasu: ok, read your heid code, ok
[18:13:06] <anonimasu> there's no c axis..
[18:13:12] <anonimasu> just polar coordinates for the X axis
[18:13:19] <archivist_attic> as the machine needs to stay in sync when stopped
[18:14:24] <archivist_attic> and will indlude differential gearing with a linear axis or two
[18:14:31] <anonimasu> tom3p: (well, it might be that if you have a C axis..)
[18:19:06] <anonimasu> :)
[18:19:10] <jepler> a program similar to anonimasu's written for emc gcode: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/scallops.ngc
[18:19:31] <jepler> I dunno if it's quite the same shape or not, since I can't really read the language his is written in
[18:20:07] <anonimasu> heidenhain stuff
[18:21:15] <jepler> is http://imagebin.org/51105 visualization from their software?
[18:21:47] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:23:06] <jepler> the visualization program I wrote has a surprisingly similar color scheme http://media.unpythonic.net/emergent-files//01169521961/gdepth7-pcb-multitool.png
[18:23:45] <anonimasu> yep
[18:24:28] <jepler> I should revive that program and get it running again
[18:32:20] <anonimasu> tom3p: though im pondering if my cam program gives me a better curve
[18:41:11] <colin_> woo
[18:41:21] <colin_> blew the spindle on works VMC
[18:41:28] <colin_> that went with a bang pmsl
[18:43:47] <archivist_attic> naughty boy
[18:44:18] <colin_> lol
[18:44:35] <colin_> more like naughty boss for being such a tight ass when it comes to servicing them
[18:45:48] <colin_> somehow i dont think a gaffa tape repair will do it this time
[18:48:14] <archivist_attic> btw I got asked about carbon fibre sheet today, know of a good supplier for 1 and 2 mm flat sheet?
[19:05:46] <geo01005> colin_ : Did you get anywhere with vismach over the weekend?
[19:05:49] <tom3p> anonimasu: there is a way for APT to put out short line segments
[19:06:19] <tom3p> anonimasu: too far back for me to remember, is Dan Falck around?
[19:06:30] <anonimasu> no, and I dont know if apt posts to my machine
[19:07:07] <tom3p> it just spit out lines using a simple mill post and i added the ngc stuff for emc2
[19:07:25] <tom3p> lines is lines ;)
[19:07:45] <anonimasu> well, doing it the way im doing it works too :]
[19:07:57] <tom3p> i like the loop
[19:08:23] <tom3p> hey it can (easily?) be an o-loop
[19:08:49] <tom3p> gotta go, missing a board! (crazed look in his eyes)
[19:08:56] <anonimasu> yeah, it can
[19:09:00] <anonimasu> but you dont have lp on a normal mill
[19:10:26] <tom3p> b4 i go.. google 'spike milligan daleks pakistani' the goons meet dr who
[19:10:40] <tom3p> yeh, lp would be nice on emc ( Line Polar )
[19:11:00] <anonimasu> but then you need cc also
[19:11:11] <tom3p> the swing point, yep
[19:11:23] <tom3p> pivot point
[19:12:19] <anonimasu> I have a question for you later about cutter comp and threadmilling
[19:12:27] <anonimasu> if you have some time someday
[19:12:32] <anonimasu> laters im gonna take a walk
[19:13:47] <tom3p> have fun. found board. erf, whatdo I know about cuter comp? I'm a sink edm guy
[19:15:34] <Danimal> wire comp!
[19:15:46] <Danimal> opps, you said sinker edm
[19:35:20] <colin_> geo01005, not managed anything concrete yet
[19:35:40] <colin_> trying to get the cad files out into a readable format
[19:36:03] <geo01005> I didn't know you could use cad files with vismach?
[19:36:05] <colin_> archivist_attic, where are you based, and how big do you want the sheet ?
[19:36:17] <colin_> geo01005, you cant im having to convert them into obj files
[19:36:30] <geo01005> I see.
[19:37:10] <colin_> the models are quite intricate tho so it could be too much for the vismach
[19:37:14] <colin_> im not sure how good it is
[19:37:17] <archivist_attic> colin_, a model helicopter guy here things making and selling frames so he should be buying not scrounging
[19:37:43] <colin_> i work for a composite company
[19:37:52] <archivist_attic> but I might do the making for him :)
[19:38:05] <archivist_attic> I know hence the question
[19:38:11] <colin_> ah
[19:38:32] <colin_> your uk based ?
[19:38:45] <archivist_attic> east midlands , swadlincote
[19:39:22] <colin_> ah cool
[19:39:27] <colin_> im just down near silverstone
[19:39:44] <archivist_attic> just down the road ish
[19:39:59] <colin_> let me know what you need exactly
[19:40:08] <colin_> might be able to scrounge you some
[19:40:19] <archivist_attic> * archivist_attic knows Jacks Hill Cafe
[19:40:30] <archivist_attic> for brekky
[19:41:26] <archivist_attic> I need to learn the required dust control :)
[19:41:37] <colin_> carbon dust ?
[19:41:45] <archivist_attic> yup
[19:41:48] <colin_> its horrible
[19:42:03] <archivist_attic> I remember you saying
[19:42:37] <archivist_attic> how is it on cutters
[19:42:37] <colin_> best bet is to suit up and cover yourself as much as possible
[19:42:48] <colin_> wear nitrile gloves
[19:42:52] <colin_> or you be itching for days
[19:42:56] <archivist_attic> ew
[19:42:59] <colin_> it kills cutters
[19:43:07] <colin_> dont even bother using a sharp cutter
[19:43:22] <archivist_attic> carbide?
[19:43:26] <colin_> nope
[19:43:32] <colin_> kills them too
[19:43:37] <colin_> use cheap ones
[19:44:35] <archivist_attic> any other cutting methods like laser or water jet
[19:44:44] <colin_> water jet is probably the best
[19:45:55] <archivist_attic> I thought it might be the best
[19:46:07] <colin_> the water keeps the dust down too
[19:46:09] <colin_> so thats a plus
[19:46:52] <colin_> unfortunatly the stuff we sometimes have to make are like inserts for brackets and mounting points
[19:46:57] <colin_> so there 3d shaped
[19:47:18] <colin_> just gotta mill em out of a solid block of carbon
[19:47:20] <colin_> i hate doing it
[19:47:41] <archivist_attic> vacuum and microfilter
[19:48:15] <colin_> yeah
[19:48:37] <colin_> you can suck it up ok with a henry or sumat if your just doing a small amount
[19:48:42] <colin_> just make sure you cover up
[19:48:52] <colin_> we use paper coveralls
[19:50:01] <archivist_attic> we have a special cleaner up at a pumping station for coal soot
[19:51:24] <colin_> its not dangerous or anything
[19:51:27] <colin_> its just itchy really
[19:51:45] <colin_> just make sure you hoover up properly when your done
[19:52:02] <colin_> cured carbon can be thrown in the bin anyway
[19:52:58] <colin_> just try keep the dust out of your machines
[19:53:20] <colin_> when it mixes with oil it makes a rather abrasive lapping paste :P
[19:53:55] <Danimal> can anyone help me out with optoisolator/resistor selection?
[19:55:25] <archivist_attic> Danimal, setting currents is just ohms law
[19:56:10] <Danimal> yea, i got that much, i cant seem to figure out what the output will be from my 5i20
[19:56:18] <Danimal> using pwmgn
[19:56:50] <Danimal> as far as voltage and current goes
[19:56:54] <archivist_attic> 0 or 3.3 or 5 dunno read 5i20 docs
[19:57:22] <Danimal> yea, doesnt say much about current, other than it will sink 24ma
[19:57:45] <archivist_attic> so dont choose max, try 12ma
[19:58:20] <colin_> archivist_attic, http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/flatsheet.php
[19:59:02] <colin_> i know there a bit pikey there if you phone and ask for a cash price ;)
[19:59:51] <colin_> http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/Departments/Carbon-Fibre-Sheet.aspx
[20:00:38] <archivist_attic> I found carbonmods earlier
[20:01:13] <colin_> ok
[20:01:24] <colin_> depends what you need
[20:01:44] <colin_> you could make your own sheet easy enough if you dont need it double sided
[20:01:57] <Danimal> basically i'm trying to figure out what current transfer ration i should get
[20:02:05] <Danimal> ratio*
[20:02:39] <archivist_attic> Danimal, depends on opto see spec sheet
[20:03:36] <Danimal> thats what i'm looking at, trying to figure it out
[20:04:49] <Danimal> looks like it's formulated from the forward current of the diode and the collector dark current
[20:04:58] <archivist_attic> so look at say 12 ma in the LED side and see what pull up you need to get a sensible swing on the output
[20:05:13] <archivist_attic> yes
[20:05:37] <Danimal> but the forward current is rated at 80ma amp max, so do i use that, or the max output of my mesa, after the resistor?
[20:08:02] <archivist_attic> never use max! of the lowest rated
[20:08:26] <archivist_attic> 50% is more sensible 12ma
[20:08:41] <Danimal> yea i gotcha
[20:08:59] <archivist_attic> dont let the smoke out
[20:11:06] <Danimal> so 12ma forward current and a 200% current transfer ratio will give me 24ma from the collector emmiter?
[20:13:05] <archivist_attic> something like that
[20:14:23] <archivist_attic> now make sure at 24ma out that it pulls down/up enough
[20:14:44] <archivist_attic> it sets the output R value
[20:16:43] <Danimal> the vfd analog output/inputs are 20ma, so i should aim for that, riht?
[20:19:00] <archivist_attic> can the vfd deal with pwm direct?
[20:19:27] <archivist_attic> * archivist_attic thinks not
[20:19:30] <Danimal> i was under the assumption no
[20:21:05] <Danimal> it has dip switch settings... 0-10v or 0-20ma
[20:21:45] <Danimal> maybe it can
[20:23:14] <archivist_attic> I would expext you to be putting a filter in there
[20:25:29] <archivist_attic> chucking out time here....
[20:25:52] <Danimal> yea, planning on it
[20:26:13] <Danimal> thanks for the help!
[20:51:40] <archivist> np
[21:03:56] <skunkworks_> fenn_!
[21:05:51] <toastatwork> it's the emc'er who wasn't there
[21:17:26] <anonimasu> toastatwork: did you see the image?
[21:17:38] <anonimasu> toastatwork: integrals are pretty fun btw..
[21:17:55] <anonimasu> im so happy they are the final thing I have a test about
[21:44:51] <toastatwork> anonimasu: i saw the sim picture
[21:44:54] <toastatwork> excellent work
[21:45:11] <toastatwork> i am not responding much because I am at the parent's house
[21:45:22] <anonimasu> I see
[21:45:29] <anonimasu> I dont know how well it'll cut though
[21:45:41] <anonimasu> it might be a good move to make the points in a cam program so it can do some circles instead...
[21:51:24] <Jymmm> anyone here use google docs?
[21:52:32] <Danimal> can anyone look at this and tell me if i have something wrong... i'm getting an error when i start emc2. the error is "hm2-stepper.hal: 178: pin 'hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.00' does not exist
[21:52:35] <Danimal> http://pastebin.ca/1444103
[21:54:47] <geo01005> Danimal: Did you change the num_pwmgens Parameter more than 0 in the hm2 config modparam?
[21:55:09] <toastatwork> jymmm i do, sometimes
[21:55:17] <geo01005> In other words, you may not have told hm2 you wanted to use some pwm channel.
[21:55:42] <Danimal> i have it set to 3, i believe
[21:55:57] <seb_kuzminsky> Danimal: that's not a pin name
[21:55:59] <Jymmm> toastatwork: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Docs/thread?tid=0d3483614aa8eb31&hl=en Maybe if I can get others to respond to this they might enable the feature.
[21:56:23] <Danimal> the line in the ini file that has the firmware , amount of stepgens, pwm's, ect?
[21:56:30] <geo01005> yeah.
[21:56:34] <seb_kuzminsky> hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.00 is the name of a pwmgen, not the name of one of its pins
[21:56:43] <seb_kuzminsky> it needs .enable or .scale or something at the end
[21:56:43] <geo01005> ahh yes.
[21:57:04] <geo01005> No he has that in his file
[21:57:16] <geo01005> Just kidding, you are right.
[21:57:27] <geo01005> Hi seb :)
[21:57:32] <Danimal> oh ok i got the scale in the parameter, i thought
[21:57:38] <seb_kuzminsky> hi geo01005
[21:58:53] <geo01005> Danimal, you may consider using PDM output for driving an analog signal.
[21:59:25] <Danimal> ah ok
[22:02:38] <geo01005> I would also expect the analog input pin on your VFD to have a filter... but I don't know :)
[22:03:24] <Danimal> i called the manufacturer and asked them about feeding pwm to it directly, they had no clue
[22:03:35] <Danimal> told me to try it, couldnt hurt
[22:06:37] <Danimal> so i switched it to pdm... still stuck on the name though.....
[22:12:07] <geo01005> Oh, I thought you figured that one out.
[22:12:42] <Danimal> i tried putting .value at the end
[22:12:59] <geo01005> same error?
[22:13:06] <Danimal> looks like that's the pin i need, according to the hostmot2 part of the manual
[22:13:10] <Danimal> yep
[22:13:45] <Danimal> oh wait i got it
[22:14:00] <Danimal> sweet!
[22:14:01] <geo01005> good :)
[22:14:05] <geo01005> VFD work?
[22:14:29] <geo01005> or are you still working on the opto-isolation?
[22:14:33] <Danimal> didnt get that far yet.... still gotta hook up the physical wires
[22:15:08] <Danimal> but emc2 loaded without a fault, and now i have little + and - buttons for the rpm
[22:16:23] <Danimal> if my vfd can opperate off pdm or pwm, should i still use an optocoupler?
[22:16:43] <Danimal> or can i run it from the breakout board to the vfd
[22:17:36] <tom3p> they call em optocouplers, but another name is opto isolator (pronounced saved my ass:)
[22:17:43] <Danimal> haha
[22:18:00] <Danimal> yea i found that out when i baught the one for the spindle-on
[22:19:20] <geo01005> I figure it is best to isolate it.
[22:20:21] <Danimal> yea, i got a bit of studying to do to figure out which one i need
[22:21:00] <Danimal> i've never really used one before untill now
[22:21:11] <Danimal> pretty neat little gadget though
[22:22:16] <tom3p> theres a lot of optocoupler examples on web, and if you can get the forrest j mims books (radio shack) some nice examples
[22:22:45] <geo01005> Would you need anything different from what you used for the spindle on signal?
[22:22:50] <Danimal> yea, i've been reading up a bit on them online today
[22:23:09] <tom3p> using them for analog is only a bit odd, as its not the real analog optocoupler, just a use of a digital optocoupler with PWM/PDM
[22:25:21] <tom3p> so, you should be able to use almost any optocoupler, and check with a Vmeter to see the output reaches 70%+ of the logic it drives.
[22:26:04] <tom3p> unless its noisy, it should be ok. (use twisted pair up to the opto, gnf shield at source end, not at destination end)
[22:26:17] <tom3p> gnd shield at source end
[22:26:37] <Danimal> ah ok
[22:27:17] <Danimal> i was reading up mostly on what current transfer ratio i should get
[22:27:47] <tom3p> 1st hit on google was for PWM and optocouplers using HP's ( know to be good and fast ) http://homepages.which.net/~paul.hills/SpeedControl/Optos.html
[22:27:53] <geo01005> the input impedance of the vfd should be quite low.
[22:28:34] <geo01005> high I mean.
[22:29:25] <Jymmm> If anyone uses google Docs... http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Docs/thread?tid=0d3483614aa8eb31&hl=en Maybe if I can get others to respond to this they might enable the feature.
[22:29:46] <Danimal> 219k is what it measures
[22:36:39] <tom3p> Jymmm: i just dont know what they're talking about
[22:38:45] <Jymmm> tom3p: Ah, well in google Docs you can access it useing clear unencryped text, but have the option to use encryption so nobody can sniff/snoop what you are working on. I'd just like to to offer th ability to FORCE the use of it - it's a user setting that is in gMail, but not in gDocs.
[22:39:13] <Danimal> ugh... the physical pin for the pwmgen is on a different port than the stepgen pins...
[22:39:49] <Danimal> and i only have 1 breakout board
[22:43:00] <Danimal> whats the best way to get around that?
[22:43:23] <Danimal> i really dont want to spend another $50
[22:43:28] <Danimal> for a breakout board
[22:49:38] <PCW> Danimal: We choose our pinouts carefully to maximize need for breakout cards
[22:50:04] <Danimal> lol
[22:50:57] <Danimal> seriously
[22:51:09] <PCW> Tell me what pinout you want and I'll whip up a new 5I20 bitfile
[22:51:35] <Danimal> that would be great
[22:52:02] <Danimal> give me one sec, i'll pastebin it
[22:54:26] <Danimal> http://pastebin.ca/1444173
[22:54:51] <Danimal> any chance of getting something like that?
[22:55:22] <Danimal> i'm not using p2 or p3, everythnig i need will fit on p4
[23:00:30] <PCW> sure, no problem
[23:00:32] <PCW> Eventually we will have a better daughter board solution for step motor systems
[23:00:33] <PCW> (probably a modified 7I47 with 0-10V and enable outputs for a VFD)
[23:00:58] <Danimal> nice
[23:01:29] <Danimal> hopefully i wont have steppers long
[23:01:45] <Danimal> i'd like to switch to servos eventually
[23:03:50] <Danimal> i'll have to buy another breakout board when i start working on the toolchanger
[23:21:40] <PCW> OK bitfile done
[23:21:56] <Danimal> ok
[23:22:06] <Danimal> cool, how do i get it from ya?
[23:22:35] <Danimal> d.wilcox@imp-mfg.com if email works
[23:22:39] <PCW> email or will pastebin work?
[23:23:19] <Danimal> yep, pastebin is fine
[23:25:12] <tom3p> PCW: thats really nice, great support from Mesa to emc2 users. thx
[23:25:32] <Danimal> yea, deffinately
[23:26:15] <Danimal> glad i spent the $$ rather than trying the parport route
[23:26:21] <PCW> http://filebin.ca/xgbgj/danimal.bit
[23:26:23] <PCW> Just wanted to show its easy to generate new pinouts
[23:27:06] <Danimal> so where do i save that?
[23:28:55] <PCW> same path as your current SVST8_4IM2.BIT...
[23:29:10] <Danimal> ahh ok
[23:31:53] <Danimal> thanks alot for the help PCW
[23:33:27] <PCW> Welcome, but check carefully, any new bitfile should not be trusted for a while...
[23:33:29] <PCW> This bitfile has the (minor) step generator fixes included. I dont think I broke anything
[23:33:31] <PCW> but theres always that chance...
[23:34:10] <PCW> bbl