#emc | Logs for 2009-05-24

[01:16:20] <tom3p> while looking for hints on autocad under vmware under linux... ( slow ) i came across BricsCad 'acad clone', but its 'for redhat 9, fedora 1,2,3', what kinda probs am i in for? ;)
[01:17:23] <toastatwork> using alien, i suppose
[01:17:25] <toastatwork> other than that.. ?
[01:17:38] <toastatwork> hunting down some dependencies
[01:21:03] <tom3p> didnt think of alien, dloaded the tgz, yep expect dep hell
[01:22:41] <toastatwork> they don't have a list of deps?
[01:25:22] <tom3p> cool ... "Delivered as RPM and as tar(for Debian-Ubuntu)"
[01:25:28] <tom3p> deps? i will find out ;)
[01:30:41] <toastatwork> the only reason i would suggest finding a text list is because, from using slackware for a couple years, missing deps can sometimes be misleading in error messages
[01:32:12] <tom3p> eh, it runs under wine, a zillion blah.dll.so files ( weird it runs under wine but is touted as a linux version )
[01:32:17] <toastatwork> oh
[01:32:46] <tom3p> and the user manual has a pdf icon but is an exe file :(
[01:33:11] <tom3p> its help if you get it to run ( catch 22 )
[01:33:18] <toastatwork> hahahah
[01:33:24] <toastatwork> that isn't sketchy at all, no sir
[01:42:17] <tom3p> the tarball does have ahelp dir, and pdfs inside that. it seems it has sketch, dunno if its got the MDT extrude tho... i will keep trying
[02:16:02] <tom3p> re bricscad. it opens sample 3d stuff ok, but none (of a dozen + files ) of mine showed any 3d content, only 2d renderings (aka layouts in acadese )
[02:16:59] <tom3p> you install wine, you install brciscad, they send you a 30 day key, you run a script ( NOT wine icad blah ). very very very mdt like ( so far )
[02:17:37] <toastatwork> lol
[02:17:40] <toastatwork> pro/e
[02:17:45] <toastatwork> linux native
[02:20:29] <tom3p> i seem to recall hearing ProE was available for linux
[02:25:28] <toastatwork> i love pro/e but I have very little experience with it
[02:25:35] <toastatwork> imho it's way better than solidworks, but it's more difficult to use
[02:25:45] <toastatwork> like emacs or vim vs. ms notepad
[02:41:51] <eric_unterhausen> how can something that is more difficult to use be better?
[02:42:08] <tom3p> its got a page in the pdfs, that compare the 3 versions, Linux, free W$ & w$ Pro... the linux column of full of 'not available' except for one 'partially available'
[02:43:59] <tom3p> wasted a couple hours on that. maybe ubu hardy (no rt emc ) under vmware under w$ is easier, then i'd have acad native.
[02:57:33] <toastatwork> eric_unterhausen it's far more powerful
[02:57:45] <toastatwork> again, i point you to vim vs. ms notepad
[02:58:30] <toastatwork> solidworks makes a whole bunch of assumptions of things you will not try to do
[02:58:50] <toastatwork> fillets, drawing on surfaces, etc
[03:00:07] <toastatwork> and what actually makes pro/e difficult to use is it assumes you're going to want to do certain things, complex things, and that makes it more difficult to use if you aren't expecting it
[03:01:08] <toastatwork> like pulling data, relations, and geometry from elsewhere in the model into the current sketch
[03:01:30] <toastatwork> it doesn't just bring up the sketch view, it brings up all these dialouges and whatnot related to importing things
[03:04:01] <toastatwork> the first college I went to taught pro/e, it was too much for people who had never seen solid modeling before, but it was awesome
[03:04:11] <toastatwork> it would do absolutely anything you asked it to, as long as you knew how to ask it
[03:04:50] <toastatwork> the same can't be said of solidworks and similar packages, they just won't do everything
[03:04:53] <eric_unterhausen> my productivity is much lower with pro/e
[03:05:06] <eric_unterhausen> but I don't do advanced stuff
[03:05:18] <toastatwork> that's not been my experience, but I guess different people work differently
[03:06:31] <eric_unterhausen> the only reason I wanted to use pro/e was for the cam post, but it turns out that mastercam loves solidworks files
[03:07:11] <toastatwork> yeah
[03:07:26] <eric_unterhausen> and I wasn't smart enough to get the pro/e cam package to work anyway
[03:10:08] <toastatwork> i messed around with the cam package and it was really cool, but I wasn't into machining at that point
[03:19:25] <tom3p> hmm, got acad mdt running under vmware, but on old laptop ( how'd i did i do that !! ;)
[03:20:05] <tom3p> i can spin 3d models as well as native w2k pro
[07:40:20] <rob__> rob__ is now known as robh
[13:09:22] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81624
[13:10:43] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/cnc_toolkit.html
[13:56:12] <Spida> hi
[14:30:39] <colin_> hi
[14:42:57] <DanielFalck> skunkworks: thanks for the heads up on cnc-toolkit
[14:55:02] <Jymmm> It's always been available, it's just that skunkworks has no life and just trolls cnczone for juicy gossip as he's such a drama queen!
[14:56:15] <DanielFalck> good morning Jymmm
[14:56:32] <Jymmm> g;Morning DanielFalck
[14:56:35] <Jymmm> Doh
[14:57:17] <DanielFalck> I'm always trolling this channel for juicy gossip :)
[14:57:20] <travis> travis is now known as Guest98070
[14:57:35] <Guest98070> Guest98070 is now known as trav
[14:57:37] <DanielFalck> never seems to happen though
[14:57:44] <Jymmm> DanielFalck: I'm afraid you have NOTHNG on skunkworks
[15:03:20] <trav> I'm trying to install rtai on a smp kernel
[15:03:48] <trav> I ran the configure -r
[15:04:05] <trav> so it sees the new kernel, then it says to do a debuild, what is that for?
[15:06:15] <alex_joni> trav: be a bit more specific
[15:06:36] <alex_joni> did you finish building the rtai-patched kernel?
[15:06:39] <alex_joni> is it installed?
[15:06:45] <trav> I'm following these instructions http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_With_Custom_Kernel
[15:06:47] <alex_joni> do the tests run?
[15:07:00] <alex_joni> specifically latency-test
[15:07:18] <trav> and emc2 says it requires the real-time kernel 2.6.24-16-rtai
[15:07:44] <trav> but I have an intel atom 330, so I was wanting the smp support
[15:07:53] <alex_joni> trav: try to go a bit slower
[15:08:02] <trav> so I created the kernel 2.6.24-16-rtaismp
[15:08:07] <alex_joni> when you say "emc2 says" -> that is no real information
[15:08:13] <trav> which I'm running currently
[15:08:33] <alex_joni> ok, so you're booted using 2.6.24-16-rtaismp, that is ok
[15:09:01] <alex_joni> next you want to either install the emc2 package (one that works with 2.6.24-16-rtaismp) or build your own
[15:10:06] <trav> gpg: WARNING: unsafe ownership on configuration file `/home/travis/.gnupg/gpg.conf'
[15:10:06] <trav> gpg: skipped "Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>": secret key not available
[15:10:06] <trav> gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available
[15:10:06] <trav> debsign: gpg error occurred! Aborting....
[15:10:06] <trav> debuild: fatal error at line 1174:
[15:11:00] <trav> yes I assume I'm trying to build emc2 per that web page instructions
[15:11:10] <trav> I get to the debuild part and get that error
[15:11:58] <alex_joni> that is ok
[15:12:07] <alex_joni> it only means you couldn't sign the package
[15:12:23] <trav> so just install the deb file and reboot?
[15:12:37] <alex_joni> no need for reboot either
[15:12:48] <trav> ahh it worked
[15:13:07] <trav> I see errors and I worry about them
[15:17:10] <colin_> alex_joni, can i pick your brain for a second
[15:17:16] <colin_> in the robot kine
[15:17:23] <colin_> do you know what A3 is ?
[15:18:55] <colin_> from what iv worked out A2 is link 1 of arm, D3 is the offset to the side of the base, and D4 is link 2 of arm
[15:19:04] <colin_> A3 seems to be the smallest of the offsets
[15:19:08] <colin_> so could it be wrist ?
[15:21:21] <alex_joni> colin_: no
[15:21:29] <alex_joni> did you read about DH?
[15:21:33] <colin_> yeah
[15:21:35] <alex_joni> Denavit Hartenberg?
[15:21:41] <colin_> its hard to get my head around what means what tho
[15:21:42] <alex_joni> A & D are 2 offsets
[15:21:56] <alex_joni> A2 and D2 refer to the link between joint 1 and 2
[15:22:06] <alex_joni> A3 and D3 refer to the link between joint 2 and 3
[15:22:33] <colin_> oh
[15:23:45] <colin_> its all very confusing
[15:25:40] <colin_> A is angle and D is translation ?
[15:27:58] <alex_joni> http://prt.fernuni-hagen.de/lehre/KURSE/PRT001/EXAMPLES/eqs2/index.html
[15:28:11] <alex_joni> A is distance between the rotations aka strut length
[15:28:16] <alex_joni> and D is the side deviation
[15:30:44] <colin_> thanks ill give that a read :)
[15:31:02] <colin_> been a long time since iv had to do maths like this
[15:31:11] <colin_> and even back then i wasnt that good lol
[15:32:53] <alex_joni> you can see A & D here: http://uwf.edu/ria/robotics/robotdraw/DH_parm.htm
[15:35:11] <colin_> A3 is confusing because it looks like that joint is on the centerline
[15:37:07] <alex_joni> A3 should be the length of the second arm
[15:37:42] <colin_> but isnt that D4 ?
[15:38:58] <alex_joni> shorter than d4
[15:39:25] <alex_joni> but I think it depends how you select the coordinate systems centers
[15:40:02] <colin_> oh
[15:40:26] <colin_> but as my bot has the joints on the centerline
[15:41:34] <colin_> d2 would be 0 ?
[15:41:40] <colin_> and would A3 be 0 aswell ?
[15:41:43] <alex_joni> http://www3.hi.is/~pgg/DenavitHartenberg.pdf
[15:41:54] <alex_joni> that's a pretty good introduction to 2 joints
[15:42:33] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: you ears must have been ringing
[15:43:54] <colin_> hmm im starting to think im in over my head slightly with this
[15:44:10] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: AVR uC's to TCP/IP modules (and chips)... http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=MFR00088 (serious hint hint nudge nudge lol)
[15:44:16] <alex_joni> colin_: maybe there's a math univ. around your place
[15:44:25] <colin_> maybe i should just pay someone to write my kine
[15:44:51] <trav> you use emc2 with robots?
[15:45:09] <colin_> im trying too
[15:45:54] <Jymmm> trav: Sure, why not?
[15:46:48] <trav> guess I never thought of it that way, just seems it's geared toward cnc
[15:47:13] <colin_> you can use bots for cnc aswell
[15:47:28] <colin_> in fact thats why im doing it
[15:48:24] <Jymmm> trav: As example what's so different from a gantry router and a pick-and-place machine?
[15:48:48] <Jymmm> Just replace the spindle with a vacuum pickup
[15:49:05] <trav> nothing, but when I think robot, I think articulating arm
[15:49:25] <Jymmm> Which is what, two maybe three motors
[15:49:30] <trav> true tho, they all move in 3d space
[15:49:46] <Jymmm> all cnc machines move in 3D space =)
[15:49:54] <trav> yes
[15:50:08] <colin_> the idea of the kine module is to convert the 5/6 rotary axis of the articulating arm into linear xyz movements
[15:50:09] <SWPLinux> colin_: have you looked at the pumakins or scarakins source code?
[15:50:09] <SWPLinux> those two robot types are already implemented for EMC2
[15:50:09] <SWPLinux> (of course, I've missed the rest of the discussion, so ignore me if I'm repeating someone :) )
[15:50:18] <colin_> SWPadnos, yeah of course
[15:50:19] <trav> sadly I've worked for chrysler for many years with cnc's and robots
[15:50:52] <kirk_wallace> Here is an example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoOWi1r6-Eo, more links near the bottom of the page here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos
[15:50:57] <colin_> SWPadnos, just trying to work out what how the puma kins works
[15:51:14] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pokes SWPLinux with an gigabit hub
[15:51:20] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: those look interesting. I'll have to check them out more when I have time
[15:51:47] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Cool, chips are as low as $4, not too shabby, still need the xfmr though
[15:52:00] <Jymmm> and RJ45, etc
[15:52:55] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Oh, and some of the AVR's already have (R/C) Servo too =)
[16:06:38] <trav> alex_joni: what type of board is this? http://dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/HPIM5139.JPG
[16:09:41] <kirk_wallace> trav: Is this relevant? http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_PCAT.html
[16:11:42] <trav> yes it's ISA, is just a motion control board?
[16:14:58] <kirk_wallace> A wild guess is that it is a single board computer, but I'm not qualified to say. Are there any markings or model numbers?
[16:15:44] <trav> I never seen a SBC with an ISA slot, but ya never know
[16:16:25] <alex_joni> trav: an older SBC
[16:16:32] <alex_joni> Geode GX1
[16:16:37] <alex_joni> at ~ 300MHz
[16:17:05] <alex_joni> you get ISA at the bottom, PC-104 and pC-104+ (PCI_
[16:17:26] <trav> ah
[16:17:40] <alex_joni> I got it for the 4 x serial
[16:18:00] <alex_joni> which I thought I needed 4-5 years ago :D
[16:18:07] <trav> heh
[16:18:23] <alex_joni> bbl
[16:18:29] <trav> cya
[16:38:30] <Jymmm> Kinda interesting.... USB stepper motor, controller, driver, all-in-one http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MC016&Category_Code=MC
[16:41:12] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Kinda interesting.... USB stepper motor, controller, driver, all-in-one http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MC016&Category_Code=MC
[20:35:41] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:55:10] <gtom> strange behaivour of hostmot2 stepgen
[20:55:38] <SWPLinux> are you running installed or compiled EMC2?
[20:55:47] <gtom> home on index only does not work
[20:55:54] <gtom> both
[20:56:11] <SWPLinux> ok. is the homing problem the problem with stepgen?
[20:56:42] <gtom> yes, home on index, axis wants to return where the move started...
[20:58:03] <gtom> Made a setup with parport -> runs fine, problem occurs using with hm2 stepgen
[20:58:43] <SWPLinux> the stepgen has nothing to do with homing (or it's not supposed to anyway)
[20:59:05] <SWPLinux> are you sure the index input was being correctly detected?
[20:59:49] <gtom> Yes, Hal-> watch -> index-enable -> gets FALSE
[21:00:47] <gtom> Problem is HM2 Stepgen, same Setup with Stepgen on Parport works fine
[21:06:02] <gtom> Seems to be the same problem that HM2 Stepgen had before 2.3.1, i've installed the 2.3.1 HM (HM Version did not change,right?)
[21:07:00] <gtom> Version 2.3.1 is 0.15 and 0.6 HM and HMPCI, is this the newest Hostmot?
[21:10:56] <tom3p> where's fest news?
[21:14:22] <DanielFalck> they must be having a lot of fun
[23:11:32] <SWPLinux_> SWPLinux_ is now known as SWPLinux
[23:41:11] <atex57> How goes the EMC fest this year? Many in attendance?