#emc | Logs for 2009-05-19

[00:18:16] <jepler> well shit
[00:19:12] <jepler> a stepper motor wire came loose from its screw terminal and shorted to case ground. the smoke came out of one of the 3 stepper drivers on my xylotex board
[00:21:24] <jepler> .. and the other 2 axes don't work either
[00:22:45] <jepler> anybody coming to workshop have a spare 3 axes of stepper drivers to sell me?
[00:40:20] <roh> jepler uuuh.. bad luck... i dunno the xylotex, but maybe you can fix it quite easily
[00:40:54] <roh> are there schems and some documentation avail? i guess its just some fets and eventually a driver or parts of the psu if not shortage-proof
[00:43:54] <jepler> roh: xylotex doesn't publish a schematic, but it's built on the a3977, a surface-mount chip which itegrates the step translator and the drivers
[00:47:48] <jepler> .. and it can be had for under ten dollars http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=620-1144-1-ND
[01:02:02] <jepler> man, what a shitty repair policy at xylotex: after a year they won't repair your board, even for a fee. buy a new one or gtfo. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73307 http://www.xylotex.com/Repairs.htm
[01:04:36] <eric_unterhausen> those things aren't cheap enough for me, geckos are the way to go
[01:06:59] <jepler> the xylotex performed just fine until this -- as far as I know, only g203v is represented as able to survive what I did to kill the xylotex, but that's still about 3x as expensive as xylotex
[01:07:50] <roh> hm.. seems when something dies, its that chip
[01:08:17] <eric_unterhausen> unsoldering that chip is probably out of the question?
[01:08:34] <jepler> eric_unterhausen: oh it's probably doable
[01:08:52] <jepler> the question is whether I'd rather spend a lot of money, or a little money and then a lot of time and then maybe a lot of money
[01:09:12] <eric_unterhausen> is it one board for multiple axes?
[01:09:19] <jepler> right
[01:09:22] <jepler> 3 axes on one board
[01:09:51] <jepler> but the failure is such that none of the axes are working now -- I assume there's now a permanent short inside the dead chip
[01:10:06] <eric_unterhausen> not good
[01:10:09] <jepler> (when power is applied, the power LED comes on briefly then fades out)
[01:10:48] <jepler> (and a little more smoke comes out of the chip)
[01:10:56] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[01:11:24] <jepler> yeah it's really made my day
[01:11:46] <eric_unterhausen> philinmo boards then
[01:12:13] <roh> hmm.. you guys ever heard of octopart.com?
[01:12:44] <roh> * roh just stumbled on it and it seems to try solving one of electronic engineers longest and most painfull issues.. sourcing
[01:13:02] <jepler> never heard of it before
[01:15:04] <jepler> * jepler bookmarls
[01:15:07] <jepler> s/l/k/
[01:15:44] <jepler> I suppose I should rip the dead chip off the board and see if the other two axes will work then
[01:16:51] <roh> jap
[01:17:12] <jepler> jap?
[01:17:15] <roh> in general, check for any damages to other chips, or stuff like diodes
[01:17:17] <roh> yes
[01:17:20] <eric_unterhausen> jepler, you can cut the pins, correct?
[01:17:45] <eric_unterhausen> http://pminmo.com/forsale/blankpcbs.htm
[01:18:04] <jepler> eric_unterhausen: yeah, I think I can do that after I get the heatsink off
[01:18:47] <jepler> well off to f*** something else up
[01:20:11] <eric_unterhausen> that's the spirite
[01:20:36] <eric_unterhausen> I had a wire come off of my servo amp, seems like they now cost about $200 on ebay
[01:20:54] <eric_unterhausen> and $3000 new
[01:22:33] <roh> jepler is your system also one a3977 per channel on an extra pcb? if so , just disconnect the control and vcc to check if the others still work
[01:27:01] <jepler> roh: no, it is one board
[01:27:06] <jepler> one ruined board, now
[01:28:51] <jepler> the pins are too close to the package for me to get with my sidecutters, but in the process of trying I destroyed several pads
[01:28:59] <jepler> i had better quit for the night before I sever a part of my body or something
[01:33:02] <JohnAsh> anyone need some help around michigan doing retrofits?
[01:39:23] <jmkasunich> jepler: bummer
[01:39:39] <JohnAsh> anyone need some help around michigan, indiana, ohio doing retrofits?
[02:05:07] <Patrice> Can EMC2 handle this application? Look at the stylus probing the contour: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6002552788152244280
[02:05:30] <Jymmm> jepler: how did you kill the xylotex?
[02:05:38] <jepler> Jymmm: shorted a motor winding to case ground
[02:06:04] <Jymmm> jepler: how did ya do that?
[02:06:16] <jepler> Jymmm: not sure -- the wire apparently worked its way out of the screw terminals
[02:06:25] <Jymmm> jepler: ah
[02:06:31] <Valen> can you take a photo?
[02:06:38] <jepler> Valen: there's not much to see
[02:06:55] <Valen> I was thinking of looking up the part numbers to see what the bits are
[02:07:13] <Valen> if its a surface mount chip you can use a hot air rework to get the chip off
[02:07:13] <jepler> the chip top is still intact, two pins on the side are blackened, and I mangled a few pins and a capacitor trying and failing to cut the pins of the chip
[02:07:14] <Jymmm> jepler: Well.... I talked to MAriss on the phone for a couple hours once... He said that NO DRIVE, not even gecko can survive a connector coming loose.
[02:07:28] <jepler> the main chip is allegro a3977
[02:07:30] <Valen> otherwise you can cut the pins with a knife
[02:07:31] <jepler> no mystery there
[02:07:51] <Jymmm> jepler: chip clip
[02:08:05] <Valen> is yours the PLCC ot TSSOP package?
[02:08:25] <jepler> Valen: PLCC
[02:08:37] <Valen> ahh kinda sucky
[02:08:55] <Valen> the other thing you can do is hit each pin with a soldering iron then prize it up with a pin
[02:09:33] <Jymmm> Nah, just cut the chip out, and remove each pin invidivdually
[02:09:52] <Valen> yeah all of the above, but yeah sidecutters aint gonna cut it
[02:10:01] <Valen> you could prolly dremel it out
[02:10:19] <Jymmm> Valen: You must have some suck cutters =)
[02:10:40] <jepler> maybe another day
[02:10:45] <Valen> your not going to sidesnip the legs of a plcc
[02:11:02] <jepler> when I have the slightest chance to do more good than harm
[02:11:14] <Valen> so yeah i was thinking these for the drive http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=96&products_id=189&osCsid=cd54f26f569b45fbe0d22615e18d17fa for my mill project
[02:11:49] <Valen> with a set of 7I40's for the drive
[02:12:02] <Valen> going the cheap route
[02:12:16] <Jymmm> jepler: Well, it's a cheap board anyway
[02:13:14] <Jymmm> jepler: do you have any other driver available?
[02:13:46] <Jymmm> you could just disable the\at one axis and use something else
[02:13:54] <Jymmm> per the jumpers on it
[02:14:01] <jepler> Jymmm: no, jumpering doesn't work.
[02:14:07] <jepler> I have lined up a board to borrow temporariliy
[02:14:29] <Jymmm> ok, cool.
[02:14:41] <Jymmm> Be sure to use extra fans on it too
[02:16:36] <Valen> oh well off to get some foooods
[02:16:38] <Valen> bbl
[02:17:40] <Jymmm> jepler: FWIW... I worked in a shop where we fabricated UV Curing systems for large (dragon) printing presses. One time I was wiring up the 120VAC logic and one single strand from an 18g wire touched the back panel. the 5000VA 440-to-120 xfmr blew.... the resin stunk up the shop for two weeks
[02:19:19] <jepler> that's more fun than I have a in a year
[02:19:22] <Jymmm> jepler: These were 600W/in UV lamps, 6 foot long. Fun Stuff
[02:37:55] <jepler> Jymmm: I have to content myself with the little 'pop' that first told me something was wrong
[02:38:01] <jepler> perhaps some day I'll work up to the big stuff
[02:39:22] <SWPLinux> need more smoke?
[02:40:33] <jepler> I'm trying to quit
[02:40:46] <SWPLinux> oh, I see
[02:43:58] <jepler> hm, is it incorrect usage to refer to a solid state device as the computer's "hard drive"?
[02:44:14] <SWPLinux> solid drive
[02:44:27] <jepler> I'll go for calling it only as erroneous as "floppy" for the ones that are about 3.5 inches on a side
[02:44:29] <SWPLinux> solid is close to hard, so I guess it's OK
[02:44:39] <SWPLinux> the disk is still floppy
[02:44:43] <SWPLinux> it's the case that's rigid
[02:45:12] <jepler> the platter is solid, it's just the spinning that makes it unsolid
[02:45:15] <jepler> or something
[02:45:29] <SWPLinux> not with a floppy, even a 3.5" one
[02:45:46] <SWPLinux> they're definitely flexible. trust me on this :)
[02:46:28] <SWPLinux> though it is funny to think about the fact that CDR and possibly DVD-R media are now less expensive than floppies ever were
[02:46:59] <SWPLinux> s/fact/factoid/
[02:47:49] <Patrice> SWPLinux: did you have a chance to look at the video that describes what we were discussing a couple months ago with Dan Falck?
[02:47:58] <SWPLinux> no
[02:48:08] <SWPLinux> or I did but I don't remember :)
[02:48:16] <SWPLinux> hmmm. ok, the optics shop
[02:48:24] <Patrice> Do you want the link to it?
[02:48:34] <SWPLinux> I never watched a video though
[02:48:42] <SWPLinux> not right now, thanks. I'm on the road
[02:48:59] <SWPLinux> some time in June would be better :)
[02:49:19] <Patrice> Sure
[02:49:36] <Patrice> I am just very curious about it
[02:49:55] <SWPLinux> I think I'd need to think about it more than I can at the moment
[02:50:03] <SWPLinux> big project in the works
[02:50:32] <Patrice> Don't forget to let me know when you visit your brother
[02:50:42] <SWPLinux> will do
[02:51:01] <SWPLinux> (no plans at the moment though)
[02:51:15] <Patrice> Looking forward to it...
[02:51:58] <SWPLinux> now this is strange
[02:52:03] <SWPLinux> I think I ate too much sushi
[05:33:44] <Jymmm> that wasn't sushi
[05:36:25] <Jymmm> jepler: Oh, I thought you were working on something new, not troubleshooting
[06:29:47] <renesis> hey guys you know those indicators with the little arm on a pivot
[06:30:27] <renesis> like to tram your spindle or see how flat/level your table is
[06:30:41] <renesis> thats an arc measurement, right?
[06:33:23] <renesis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_indicator#Dial_test_indicator
[06:33:29] <renesis> k big wiki knows
[08:42:05] <Steveeeee> can anyone help me with phase driving some steppers to test emc2 before i pay to buy step and direction drivers
[08:43:49] <archivist> what do you mean
[08:44:11] <archivist> what sort of test
[08:45:33] <Steveeeee> rather that driving the steppers by using step and direction drivers I want to step them by energising each coil
[08:46:12] <Steveeeee> i belive it is called phase drive, driving each phase
[08:46:19] <archivist> thats what the driver does
[08:46:57] <Steveeeee> i know but it is possible to use a darlington array and energise each phase to step the motor
[08:47:56] <Steveeeee> i think this guy has done it but can't find any more information: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5506285167473738661
[08:49:04] <Steveeeee> i have done this before using software called majosoft from majosoft.com and using uln2803's
[08:49:05] <archivist> you either convert step dir in logic or a hal component and use extra pins on the par port
[08:50:11] <Steveeeee> I'm new to emc2 and only just getting to grips with HAL i was hoping someone could send me an example :)
[08:51:03] <archivist> it may be in the distro or source already
[08:54:31] <Steveeeee> i think i have just seen something under stepgen here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/stepgen.9.html types 5 &6
[09:03:25] <alex_joni> archivist: just for reference
[09:03:32] <alex_joni> stepgen has about 15 stepforms
[09:03:41] <alex_joni> step/dir is only the most commonly used
[09:03:49] <archivist> I saw th page he found
[09:03:57] <alex_joni> k
[09:04:47] <alex_joni> also here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_rtcomps.html#sub:Stepgen-Step-Types
[09:07:59] <archivist> relying on google for search may not be the best idea
[09:42:53] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:43:12] <piasdom> archivist:why is that ?
[09:45:05] <archivist> lands on on the wrong stuff
[09:45:18] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn7A9PqNftY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.machinistblog.com%2F%3Fp%3D91&feature=player_embedded
[09:45:32] <Valen> heh and heres me using a bit of wood like a chump
[09:51:37] <archivist> get it wrong and the part flies out
[09:51:59] <Valen> the same could be said of many operations ;->
[09:53:41] <Valen> so yeah I'm gonna try the cheap motors, see how it goes
[11:50:28] <seb_> seb_ is now known as sebjames
[12:17:32] <seb_> seb_ is now known as sebjames
[12:20:42] <seb_> seb_ is now known as sebjames
[12:38:49] <BigJohnT> hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work I go :)
[12:53:54] <skunkworks> well - stuarts first motel choice still has openings.
[13:10:48] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[13:11:45] <steve_stallings> Hi skunkworks. Missed your comment to me yesterday. Great news on the servo. Bringing it to the Fest?
[13:12:25] <steve_stallings> Matt and I will be at the Western Holiday. Between that and the Air Trans flight it should be an adventure.
[13:20:30] <skunkworks> heh - yah - I just booked the western holiday also.
[13:20:56] <cradek> I emptied and filled the various tanks on the bus yesterday...
[13:20:57] <skunkworks> steve_stallings: I am planning on bringing the h-bridge. (no supply or servo though)
[13:21:05] <cradek> hope I got them right
[13:21:10] <skunkworks> eww
[13:21:15] <skunkworks> ;)
[13:22:15] <alex_joni> cradek: for everyone's sake
[13:26:06] <steve_stallings> and all this time I thought by "the bus" he was referring to Greyhound
[13:28:24] <steve_stallings> skunkworks: will your driver work on 12 VDC? maybe I could bring a servo about 1.5" x 4" to play with
[13:28:29] <archivist> a real bus for mobile workshop and to carry more?
[13:32:08] <skunkworks> steve_stallings: I think it should
[13:32:41] <Valen> Was thinking if we get our linear motors working, Do you think an aluminium framed mill would sell?
[13:33:31] <Optic> mooo
[13:34:17] <Valen> decent size one, not a baby mill
[13:34:32] <Valen> 300x700x400mm working volume kind of thing
[13:36:02] <steve_stallings> skunkworks: ok, I will plan on bringing it, perhaps a 24 VDC supply is I can find a small one, already shipped my 50 pound "kit" to Kansas so the servo will have to go as luggage
[13:37:21] <steve_stallings> I fear that your FET drivers may have an under voltage lockout, thus the 24 VDC supply
[13:40:25] <skunkworks> 24v should work great for sure - could always lower the max duty cycle also
[13:41:14] <skunkworks> I know I have run it on 18v
[13:41:34] <skunkworks> yes - 12 might be pushing it (for the bootstrap to charge and such)
[13:50:44] <skunkworks> robin_sz: !!
[13:50:51] <skunkworks> Guest838: hello
[13:51:03] <Guest838> hi
[13:53:15] <skunkworks> steve_stallings: they rate it Logic supply + 10v.
[13:53:47] <robin_sz> heh hey
[13:54:40] <skunkworks> robin_sz: Riding out the downturn?
[13:54:47] <alex_joni> robin_sz: greetings stranger
[13:54:54] <robin_sz> in the best possible way :)
[13:54:58] <robin_sz> hi alex
[13:55:03] <skunkworks> jamaca?
[13:55:07] <robin_sz> close,
[13:55:10] <robin_sz> switzerland
[13:55:12] <alex_joni> still can't spell :D
[13:55:19] <skunkworks> heh
[13:55:31] <robin_sz> as for the engineering company ...
[13:55:34] <robin_sz> I closed it
[13:55:46] <skunkworks> Wow - closed or sold?
[13:55:48] <robin_sz> made the stafff redundant and called in the receiver
[13:55:55] <robin_sz> just got rid of
[13:56:03] <robin_sz> engineering in the UK is stuffed
[13:56:17] <robin_sz> 50% drop whereever yoyu look
[13:56:38] <robin_sz> steel stockholders down 50% as well on delivery .. so its pretty universal
[13:56:44] <archivist> ew
[13:56:47] <skunkworks> yikes - Good luck. (is this retirement?)
[13:56:54] <robin_sz> gone back to software :)
[13:56:58] <skunkworks> ah
[13:57:02] <robin_sz> retired? at 46? I wish
[13:57:11] <skunkworks> one word - plastics ;)
[13:57:17] <robin_sz> mmmm
[13:57:33] <robin_sz> my brother works in the injection moulding industry, monitoring software
[13:57:42] <robin_sz> thats even more gutted than sheet metal
[13:57:56] <skunkworks> (that was a bad quote from the graduate)
[13:58:03] <robin_sz> haha
[13:58:22] <robin_sz> i might set up a 3d rapid prototyping thing in 18 months or so
[13:58:33] <robin_sz> laser sintering of plastic powder
[13:58:43] <robin_sz> whne the recovery starts
[13:59:03] <steve_stallings> skunkworks: thanks, I will see how sluggish the motor is on 12 volts
[13:59:12] <robin_sz> hows it going Alx?
[13:59:26] <robin_sz> alex_joni, hows it going? still selling bots?
[14:01:08] <alex_joni> robin_sz: yeah, still
[14:01:15] <robin_sz> kewl
[14:01:21] <robin_sz> glad someone is doing OK
[14:01:45] <alex_joni> err.. kinda ok
[14:01:59] <alex_joni> I still have some big contracts going (they take 6-8 months to complete)
[14:02:06] <robin_sz> fair enough
[14:02:06] <alex_joni> afterwards I'm not so sure
[14:02:22] <alex_joni> things are also at ~50-60% compared to last year
[14:02:44] <alex_joni> some domains start to get started again it seems
[14:02:47] <alex_joni> construction and such
[14:04:21] <robin_sz> hmm
[14:04:38] <robin_sz> id agree with the %ge ..
[14:04:47] <robin_sz> I think it will be bad until hmm ...
[14:05:01] <robin_sz> for output, might see it start again in the autumn
[14:05:12] <alex_joni> yeah, that's what I hope too
[14:05:14] <robin_sz> certainly feb 2010
[14:05:26] <robin_sz> but new projects could be another year
[14:05:35] <robin_sz> people still feeling the pain of the recession
[14:06:23] <robin_sz> we'll see
[14:06:30] <alex_joni> over here it wasn't such a pain
[14:06:37] <alex_joni> more that people were very cautious
[14:06:46] <robin_sz> thats why I got out, I knew it wasn't going to be just 3 months ...
[14:06:50] <alex_joni> even if they have money and planned investments, they decided to hold off
[14:06:51] <robin_sz> yep, here it was dramatic
[14:31:45] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81210
[14:55:37] <Valen> IT work in australia seems largley unaffected ;->
[14:55:57] <Valen> robin_sz were you planning on buying or making the 3d printer?
[14:56:18] <Valen> Just got off the phone with mesa, ordering bits for the mill
[14:58:44] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[15:09:18] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[17:14:26] <Optic> moo
[17:35:50] <motioncontrol> Goog evening at all.I have retrofit the 5 axis maschine .This maschine have more I/O.Mr Peter of mesa speak me the final project for spi interface.Some people have notice for this project?
[17:57:00] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,311/lang,en/#311
[18:05:48] <robin_z> Valen: buying
[18:06:56] <NewType> I found something interesting. The Feed in the GCode and the manual jog speed seems to be overriding the max_velocity limit.
[18:10:20] <NewType> I know I've set the max velocity for x and y axis using stepconf to be 20mm/s and 30mm/s, but I can jog the x axis in axis at 1800mm/min (30mm/s * 60s/min).
[18:11:17] <NewType> and in GCode, the rapid feed (made by mistake) to be 1500mm/min, and the machine will try to do it.
[18:23:09] <cradek> NewType: please pastebin your ini file and say what version you're using
[18:23:28] <NewType> alright.
[18:25:11] <NewType> here it is: http://pastebin.com/m49ad0c9c
[18:25:15] <skunkworks> I get warm fuzzies from emails like len's :)
[18:25:24] <NewType> in fact, G0 is going very very fast, and my steppers are missing steps!
[18:25:35] <NewType> I am using 2.3.0
[18:26:16] <archivist> skunkworks, I have been talking to some mach users... I see conversions in the future
[18:26:20] <cradek> what does the velocity display in AXIS say during a G0?
[18:26:36] <NewType> let me see again...
[18:26:40] <cradek> is this machine trivkins?
[18:27:03] <NewType> Vel: 1036.0
[18:27:43] <cradek> that is 17mm/sec which is less than all your axis velocities
[18:27:48] <NewType> nope. this is 5axiskins. but I am running 3 axis only.
[18:28:23] <NewType> yeah, but my MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 10.0
[18:28:42] <NewType> in [TRAJ]
[18:28:47] <NewType> so which wins?
[18:29:14] <cradek> I think that sets the top of the jog speed slider only
[18:29:22] <NewType> oh?!!!!
[18:29:25] <cradek> you might mean to set [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY
[18:30:00] <cradek> for that reason, MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY has been moved to the DISPLAY section (but still accepted from TRAJ for compatibility, which might be a mistake to do)
[18:30:17] <NewType> cradek: yep. but that's not in the *.ini generated by stepconf.
[18:30:33] <cradek> what isn't?
[18:30:47] <NewType> so can I declar MAX_VELOCITY in there?
[18:30:55] <cradek> here's the doc for TRAJ section: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BTRAJ%5D-section
[18:31:08] <skunkworks> archivist: :)
[18:31:11] <NewType> I have MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 10.0 but it seems that's not what I should set.
[18:31:50] <archivist> skunkworks, one of the UK beta testers for the chinese lathes is converting
[18:32:59] <NewType> is that normal to have a XYZBC machine to still have the 3 joint or A axis to show up on AXIS?
[18:33:42] <NewType> somehow I need to keep this in to get it to Home correctly.
[18:34:29] <cradek> didn't you start from the 5axis sample config? It has X Y Z B C W. you can have any combination.
[18:34:50] <NewType> Bingo. The [AXIS_0] MAX_VELOCITY is working. :)
[18:35:04] <NewType> yep, I started from the sample config.
[18:35:23] <cradek> but it does not have an A axis
[18:37:15] <NewType> I am still setting up the *.ini. I set GEOMETRY=XYZBC, and COORDINATES = X Y Z B C, but I wasn't able to home the C axis without putting the 3 axis in.
[18:37:30] <NewType> I think I better restart the *.ini file to see where I did somethign stupid.
[18:38:25] <NewType> anyway, the bigger problem just got solved. x axis is not over the speed limit anymore.
[18:38:26] <NewType> :)
[18:38:29] <cradek> you're in very new territory - if something is odd, it's ok to first assume it's something you did, but don't be too surprised if it isn't :-)
[18:38:48] <NewType> thanks, cradek! that's make me feel very good! :)
[18:40:26] <NewType> what's puzzling is the performance of the machine is different when I use stepconf to test it and when I use the axis to run an actual GCode
[18:41:23] <NewType> I set the x axis to have max velocity of 20mm/s, and acceleration of 50m/s^2.
[18:41:50] <NewType> during the test of +/- 100mm, the screws will perform fine (I have 2 screws to drive the x)
[18:42:12] <NewType> but when I run it in GCode, even at 10mm/s velocity, the steppers will still miss steps.
[18:42:44] <cradek> I've heard similar reports before, but I don't think anyone has studied it
[18:43:04] <NewType> I suspect there is a RT Timing issue. may be.
[18:43:50] <jepler> one relevant difference I can think of is that stepgen uses a different BASE_PERIOD when doing "test axis" than when it writes the file
[18:44:07] <NewType> I am testing the machine using stepconf now. 15mm/s velocity, 50mm/s^2 accelecration, running +/-150mm test area.
[18:44:10] <jepler> this is because during "test axis" it chooses a BASE_PERIOD that allows the axis speed to be increased during the test
[18:44:25] <jepler> when writing an inifile, it writes one that's "no smaller than necessary"
[18:45:13] <jepler> that suggests something you can do to test this theory: while running "test axis" do "halcmd show thread" in a terminal, record the "period" shown for the fast thread, and put that value in your inifile as BASE_PERIOD
[18:45:35] <NewType> my experience so far is that when there is a suspected delay event that causes a jurk, the x axis will miss step.
[18:45:50] <jepler> oh
[18:45:54] <jepler> yes, those kill stepper systems
[18:46:09] <cradek> if you're getting that error, then your machine is misconfigured or incompatible with realtime
[18:46:21] <NewType> I am not getting a real time delay error.
[18:46:30] <NewType> well, actually once or twice.
[18:46:30] <jepler> what are you getting?
[18:46:36] <NewType> during startup
[18:46:49] <cradek> the error is only shown once per run. it may be happening often.
[18:46:54] <NewType> but I found that when I have the USB thumbdrive plug in, it makes things worst.
[18:47:07] <NewType> the error is more of a random event.
[18:47:41] <cradek> you should never see that error - if you do, you will have pain until you fix it
[18:47:46] <NewType> jepler: I'll try to find a better base_period to see if it will work.
[18:48:16] <NewType> cradek: I am retesting the latency now.
[18:48:33] <NewType> I think there is something about the network card, the USB, and other stuff that's causing me this pain!
[18:48:47] <cradek> most frequent cause is video
[18:49:07] <NewType> I am using a rather old machine, using its onboard video.
[18:49:13] <NewType> It is a dual PIII machine! :)
[18:49:28] <cradek> in that case, often, plugging in a pci video card fixes it
[18:49:34] <skunkworks> Nice :)
[18:50:03] <NewType> I'll see if I can find a cheap video card around. I don't want to buy hardware for this guy.
[18:50:11] <NewType> these parts should be easy enough to find around school.
[18:51:17] <skunkworks> a nice pci ati rage card or maybe a matrox :)
[18:51:33] <skunkworks> (or agp)
[18:51:53] <NewType> will the PWM generator cause more delay? I can slow the PWM period down more. it is only for the spindle speed control
[18:52:11] <NewType> acutally, it is already at 100Hz. I think.
[18:52:21] <skunkworks> what numbers are you getting from your latency test?
[18:52:41] <skunkworks> make sure you run glxgears also (from a terminal)
[18:53:20] <NewType> oh? glxgears. let me try
[18:54:15] <NewType> humm. big number. different from what I put in the *.ini
[18:54:28] <NewType> base thread, Max Jitter = 935189
[18:54:46] <NewType> somehow I put BASE_PERIOD = 100000 in my *.ini file
[18:54:51] <NewType> I must have been drunk
[18:55:08] <skunkworks> max jitter is way too big
[18:55:13] <skunkworks> for a stepper machine.
[18:55:13] <cradek> ok, you found your stalling problem
[18:55:38] <NewType> darn. dual PIII is really really powerful. why doesn't it work!?!!?!??!?!
[18:55:48] <skunkworks> did it happen when you ran glxgears?
[18:55:53] <NewType> yep
[18:55:59] <NewType> and x-chat, and network/
[18:56:02] <skunkworks> try a video card as cradek said.
[18:56:03] <cradek> video driver
[18:56:25] <NewType> acutally, I just peak now, and I do have a PCI video card in the machine.
[18:56:28] <NewType> not sure which one.
[18:56:30] <cradek> bad latency when you start glxgears is a dead giveaway
[18:56:57] <NewType> darn. this is so sad.
[18:57:30] <NewType> woo! I have a onboard ethernet and a PCI ethernet.
[18:58:02] <NewType> humm. I can't tell what video I have.
[18:58:19] <NewType> Still trying to get used to the device manager thing in Linux.
[18:58:45] <archivist> lspci -v in a terminal
[18:59:13] <skunkworks> archivist: how can you tell what driver is being used?
[18:59:14] <archivist> * archivist just did it to find a new card
[18:59:20] <NewType> Oh!!
[18:59:33] <NewType> VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage 128 RF/SG AGP (prog-if 00 [VGA])
[18:59:55] <cradek> that oughta work
[19:00:01] <skunkworks> boy - I would think that would work.
[19:00:07] <archivist> if it uses shared memory it will cause latency problems
[19:00:21] <NewType> that's set in the BIOS, right?
[19:00:21] <skunkworks> Can you pastebin the output of your lspci -v
[19:00:29] <NewType> ok.
[19:00:32] <archivist> or could
[19:00:32] <cradek> yeah usually you can disable the onboard video in the bios.
[19:00:45] <skunkworks> wondering if it is an smi issue..
[19:00:55] <cradek> not on P3s
[19:00:58] <skunkworks> no?
[19:00:59] <skunkworks> ok
[19:01:05] <archivist> * archivist has to learn to drive second parport now
[19:01:19] <NewType> here it is: http://pastebin.com/d6fdb46ce
[19:01:49] <NewType> oh. you need a 2nd parport? what are you doing?
[19:02:04] <cradek> I only see one video card there
[19:02:17] <skunkworks> I have used the ati rage 128 also with no issues.
[19:02:32] <NewType> oh, I don't have onboard video. that's a serial port. ;p
[19:02:46] <skunkworks> heh
[19:02:51] <archivist> NewType, 5 axis
[19:03:14] <skunkworks> NewType: you don't have any usb memory sticks plugged in - do you?
[19:03:48] <NewType> yeah, I have a USB thumbdrive in. and that usually makes things worst. I knotice that too.
[19:04:23] <NewType> hey, in x-chat, when your name is in bright yellow, is that a PM? like in mIRC?
[19:05:19] <archivist> no just highlighted probably
[19:05:23] <NewType> ah.
[19:05:28] <skunkworks> Re-run the latency test without the memory stick plugged in. (with glxgears and such)
[19:05:36] <NewType> ok. one sec.
[19:06:25] <NewType> oh, here we go.
[19:06:39] <NewType> Base thread Max Jitter = 10422
[19:06:42] <NewType> WOO!
[19:06:46] <skunkworks> let it run
[19:07:03] <skunkworks> <20000 is pretty decent
[19:07:11] <NewType> NICE!
[19:08:35] <skunkworks> I have had PIII vintage motherboards not play well with usb and realtime. (mostly memory sticks)
[19:08:57] <NewType> I am learning to use CNC toolkit to generate GCode for a hemisphere... so I am fighting on 2 front: the machine and the CAM software.
[19:09:09] <NewType> so USB is BAAAADDDDDD
[19:09:19] <NewType> great. another problem solved today. today is productive!
[19:09:20] <skunkworks> yes - on some computers
[19:10:04] <NewType> I was thinking I had to upgrade to run a XYZBC configuration. I already gut out a 2nd PIII CPU for this box. I don't want to upgrade.
[19:10:29] <NewType> the max jitter remains at 10422.
[19:11:45] <NewType> I will lable the box with NO USB on it.
[19:13:20] <NewType> let's test it with axis now. :)
[19:14:12] <NewType> this is sad. I have a 5axis machie, but don't yet have a way to generate a 5axis GCode to test this guy.
[19:14:54] <cradek> so hand-write it
[19:16:02] <NewType> I am learning that as well. :)
[19:16:14] <NewType> the 5axiskins is working.
[19:16:22] <NewType> actually, I haven't build the tool table yet.
[19:16:25] <NewType> but I will
[19:18:16] <NewType> this is nice. since I can configure max velocity on each axis, and my y axis is the faster axis, I can code all my roughing using the y axis. :)
[19:20:03] <NewType> NICE! The jurking stops!
[19:22:43] <cradek> yay for systematic troubleshooting :-)
[19:23:19] <NewType> I am going to put the config file up when this is all done.
[19:23:35] <NewType> and attach a hemisphere test code.
[19:23:44] <NewType> if I finish coding it. :)
[19:24:27] <NewType> interesting. x and y keeps the same max velocity.
[19:24:44] <cradek> you can do a decent hemisphere with something like g1 b90 c3600 (ten times around in a spiraly fashion)
[19:25:21] <NewType> cool!
[19:25:55] <NewType> well, I also need to make sure the cables on the head won't tango up and the +/- 180 limit is set right, etc.
[19:26:03] <NewType> I am learning. just give me time. :)
[19:26:31] <NewType> with the 5axiskins, I only need to specify the tangent surface, right?
[19:26:50] <cradek> I don't understand the question
[19:27:08] <NewType> well, this goes back to who is doing the math.
[19:27:29] <NewType> the CAM program asks me questions about the parameters and geometry of the machine.
[19:27:35] <NewType> so it will do the tool compensation, etc.
[19:27:56] <cradek> oh right, you have to agree on who compensates for the pivot length
[19:27:58] <NewType> but with the 5axiskins, the EMC knows how to position the tool.
[19:28:18] <cradek> yes EMC's kinematics do the compensation for pivot length (and tool length)
[19:28:25] <NewType> so all I need to tell EMC is the the location of the tangent surface. Yep yep.
[19:28:54] <archivist_emc> given that 0x378 is the onboard parport what addr do I use for the plug in card http://pastebin.ca/1427757 as lspci does not report the base addr
[19:28:58] <cradek> XYZ are the tool tip point on the workpiece coordinate system, BC are the tool normal angle
[19:29:31] <NewType> yep yep.
[19:29:34] <cradek> archivist_emc: you just have to try them all :-/
[19:29:40] <archivist_emc> ew
[19:30:00] <NewType> isn't there a generic 2nd parallel port address?
[19:30:05] <archivist_emc> I prefer logic and a right number first time
[19:30:07] <cradek> NewType: not for pci
[19:30:20] <cradek> archivist_emc: there's only six to try, you big whiner!
[19:30:55] <archivist> cycle time to try is a pain!
[19:30:58] <NewType> I suppose guessing is not in archivist_emc's nature. :)
[19:32:13] <archivist> its not the right way TM
[19:33:41] <NewType> I am running late for class. I'll report back when I get to the next step. :)
[19:33:56] <NewType> NewType is now known as NewType_away
[20:09:38] <colin__> will the keystick interface run 5axis?
[20:09:46] <colin__> or is it limited to 3?
[20:11:24] <cradek> 3
[20:11:36] <cradek> your options are AXIS and tkemc
[20:14:23] <colin__> damnit
[20:14:35] <colin__> keystick is nice for an ultra minimal setup
[20:15:00] <cradek> it seems nice at first, but after I used it for a while I wanted simple things like a file chooser
[20:15:22] <cradek> File to open: _
[20:15:31] <cradek> uhhhh what was it again?
[20:16:18] <cradek> (it was long before the days of AXIS when I was using it)
[20:16:24] <colin__> yah
[20:16:33] <colin__> hmm
[20:16:45] <colin__> maybe ill just run axis directly in X without a wm
[20:17:29] <cradek> you probably want a WM because some things pop up.
[20:17:40] <colin__> yeah
[20:17:56] <colin__> most of the pop ups are fine
[20:18:06] <colin__> its just the halscope stuff that has no exit button
[20:34:31] <jepler> doesn't halscope have file>quit in 2.3?
[20:35:23] <jepler> most wms should have a way to make the main axis window full-screen, no decorations, and always "under" everything else..
[21:20:07] <archivist> there has to be a better way of finding the extra parport addr hours of edit scope and button press!
[21:55:14] <Jymmm> can't you just scan the bus lspci
[21:55:32] <Jymmm> dmesg?
[22:16:24] <archivist> Jymmm, lspci gives 6 addresses...which one.... tried them all no output
[22:29:44] <skunkworks> I would say something is wrong then... ;)
[22:30:20] <archivist> but what? brand new card
[22:30:49] <skunkworks> * skunkworks was just being a D*ck
[22:31:17] <skunkworks> I have never played with more than one printer port
[22:31:34] <skunkworks> actually - I don't think I have played with anything but the onboard port
[22:32:08] <archivist> a few hours wasted is getting me very frustrated, docs are not written in a manner to diagnose a problem
[22:32:28] <pjm__> archivist hi, what card is it?
[22:33:33] <archivist_emc> given that 0x378 is the onboard parport what addr do I use for the plug in card http://pastebin.ca/1427757 as lspci does not report the base addr
[22:34:37] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NetMos
[22:34:44] <cradek> From experimentation, I've found the first port (the on-card port) uses the third address listed (c000), and the second port (the one that attaches with a ribbon cable) uses the first address listed (b800).
[22:36:56] <pjm__> archivist_emc http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hooking_Up_A_MPG_Pendant is worht a look, it uses the netmos card
[22:37:20] <archivist> pjm__, I saw that
[22:37:39] <pjm__> i had some bloody problems with a dual port card
[22:37:56] <pjm__> i ended up having to initialise it with modprobe parport_pc
[22:38:09] <archivist> spotted one mistake the hardware drivers part of the manual needs improving on
[22:38:21] <pjm__> then rmmoding the parport_pc and then running emc
[22:38:26] <pjm__> and it fixed the problem completly
[22:42:09] <pjm__> archivist_emc http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NetMos also
[22:42:21] <pjm__> i added that stuff at the bottom which is what i have to do here to make the card work
[22:42:56] <pjm__> if u lspci -vvv does it show any additional info for that particla
[22:43:01] <pjm__> particular card?
[22:44:29] <archivist_emc> -vvv http://pastebin.ca/1427930
[22:47:30] <pjm__> archivist_emc what happens if u use port 0x9400
[22:48:13] <pjm__> i can look at my config tommorow with the cards, i have 5 ports running in my machine
[22:48:41] <archivist> 9400 has been as deaf as any other port
[22:49:23] <pjm__> ok try this ;
[22:49:24] <pjm__> /sbin/insmod /lib/modules/2.6.24-16-rtai/kernel/drivers/parport/parport_pc.ko
[22:49:24] <pjm__> /sbin/rmmod ppdev
[22:49:24] <pjm__> /sbin/rmmod lp
[22:49:24] <pjm__> /sbin/rmmod parport_pc
[22:49:27] <pjm__> then dmesg
[22:49:38] <pjm__> see if parport_pc reports other serial ports being found
[22:49:47] <pjm__> if it does, it'll give u the proper base addresses
[22:50:20] <pjm__> obviously u have to do ^^^ without EMC loaded/running
[22:53:31] <archivist> I see 9400 and 9c00 after that
[22:53:59] <pjm__> in dmesg output?
[22:54:04] <archivist> yes
[22:54:10] <pjm__> u should see your 0x378 or whatever
[22:54:18] <pjm__> for the onboard
[22:55:02] <pjm__> so add in the 0x9400 and 0x9c00 to the relevant .hal
[22:55:05] <pjm__> and try starting emc2
[22:55:35] <archivist> and no out put from the port
[22:56:29] <pjm__> can u paste the line from the hal here?
[22:56:45] <archivist_emc> hal file http://pastebin.ca/1427939
[22:59:42] <pjm__> and have u checked both connectors pin3 for output
[22:59:52] <archivist> oh yes
[22:59:57] <archivist> many times
[23:01:44] <pjm__> try loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 0x9C00 in"
[23:01:48] <pjm__> i mean out
[23:01:50] <pjm__> at the end
[23:02:03] <pjm__> just in case the port is configured as input
[23:02:10] <pjm__> in which case pin-03 wouldnt output
[23:02:17] <pjm__> as per http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_drivers.html
[23:02:22] <archivist> out is the default
[23:02:34] <pjm__> ahh ok
[23:03:03] <pjm__> just to be sure can u move it to pin-01 and retry as that will be output in any mode
[23:03:13] <pjm__> just to ensure u are chatting to the right port
[23:04:25] <pjm__> gees just seen the time, can we continue tmw if u dont get it working over night?
[23:04:50] <archivist> Im getting bored with it now any way
[23:04:58] <pjm__> heh ok
[23:05:10] <pjm__> i can check my machine config tmw and be on it to help etc
[23:05:23] <archivist> Ok thanks
[23:06:01] <archivist> I bought two of the cards, first stopped the box from booting
[23:15:30] <Jymmm> are ther ejumpers on it?
[23:15:54] <archivist> none
[23:16:07] <Jymmm> is it settable via firmware?
[23:16:25] <archivist> dunno
[23:16:37] <Jymmm> oh, and why dont you just reboot the box and look for the base address during POST
[23:17:41] <archivist> reboot!!! Im not a windows user, lspci should give out the numbers
[23:18:17] <Jymmm> well, you ca either bitch about it, or just reboot =)
[23:24:45] <alk> or cat /proc/ioports :)
[23:26:02] <Jymmm> $20 says he read alk's message 0.00003 seconds AFTER he he the reset button
[23:26:15] <alk> LOL