#emc | Logs for 2009-05-12

[00:05:49] <SWPadnos> hmmm. so what kind of cutter would anyone recommend for cutting ABS plastic on a Bridgeport (= top speed 4000 RPM)
[00:06:34] <SWPadnos> the cuts are ~1/2" wide connector holes in case sides that are ~0.1" thick
[00:06:43] <Guest516> hi guys
[00:07:20] <SWPadnos> since I never got around to CNCing my mill (ahem), I'd like to lock the quill at depth and just cut straight through each slot
[00:07:39] <SWPadnos> or I can set the depth stop and bring the quill down
[00:07:46] <SWPadnos> hi Guest516
[00:08:52] <Guest516> i'm about ready to disconnect my bandit controller and hook up the new drivers and my pc with emc2 to my shizuoka mill for some testing
[00:09:09] <SWPadnos> cool
[00:09:17] <Guest516> i'm using a 5i20 with a breakout board
[00:10:04] <Guest516> i got the step and dir pulses figured out and ready to go, but i'm unsure how to configure it for external components like buttons, switches, relays, ect
[00:10:46] <Guest516> i've read a bunch, but since i'm horrible with computer lingo, it doesnt make much sense... is there anything out there in layman's terms that might explain it?
[00:10:49] <SWPadnos> that will depend a lot on what you want the external buttons, switches, relays, etc. to do
[00:11:21] <Guest516> well, i got a vfd for the spindle and a toolchanger for starters
[00:11:48] <SWPadnos> heh. the VFD should be pretty easy (assuming it doesn't need an isolated control voltage)
[00:11:50] <Guest516> plus i might score a control pannel with a jog wheel, estop, xyz switches, ect
[00:12:02] <SWPadnos> a toolchanger is likely to be a much harder bit of setup
[00:12:16] <Guest516> yea, i know it wont be easy
[00:12:20] <SWPadnos> unless you're good with ladder diagrams
[00:12:36] <Guest516> well i can trace out the wires to figure out what does what
[00:12:45] <Guest516> and i dont know what a ladder diagram is lol
[00:13:41] <SWPadnos> in that case it'll probably be pretty hard ;)
[00:14:22] <Guest516> yea, i figured.... but i'll get it eventually. i dont need the tool changer working right away anyways, so i got time on that
[00:15:34] <Guest516> i googled ladder diagram, looks fairly learnable
[00:17:16] <Guest516> what i was wondering is, do i modify the config file that has the stepgen stuff on it for the other i/o stuff, or does that have it's own config file?
[00:19:25] <WalterN> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jm4_HikMqk ohhh... Want!
[00:21:20] <SWPadnos> Guest516, if there's a 5i20 config that you started with, you can certainly modify it to add all this other stuff
[00:21:38] <Guest516> yea, i started with the one included in emc2
[00:22:27] <SWPadnos> then starting with that one (after making a backup :) ) is probably a good idea, if it already can turn your motors and stuff
[00:22:49] <SWPadnos> you can have as many configs as disk space allows, so don't worry about making new ones
[00:22:51] <WalterN> I wonder how much that machine would cost...
[00:22:54] <SWPadnos> (unless they'll confuse you later)
[00:23:03] <Guest516> very cool
[00:23:47] <Guest516> where's a good place to find info on editing the config file for someone completely new to this stuff?
[00:24:25] <SWPadnos> the manuals are good
[00:25:51] <Guest516> i havent tried it with the motors yet because i have to disconnect the existing (working) controller to do so, but i am getting step and dir pulses from my breakout board, and the settings seem to jive with the requirements and settings for my drives
[00:26:23] <SWPadnos> you may need to tune the acceleration and velocity limits, but other than that it sounds good
[00:29:34] <Guest516> it looked like the generic settings in the hstmot2 file were pretty slow compared to what my drivers could do, i assumed starting slow wouldnt hurt anything, is that right to assume?
[00:29:50] <SWPadnos> probably
[00:30:37] <Guest516> it's gotta be a ton faster than my current drives in the machine, that's for sure
[00:30:52] <Guest516> those things are antiques
[00:31:00] <SWPadnos> but you'll be reusing the motors?
[00:31:05] <Guest516> yea
[00:31:22] <Guest516> very beefy motors
[00:31:47] <SWPadnos> the big ones with the fins?
[00:31:51] <Guest516> 1300oz in 9.2a
[00:31:59] <Guest516> na, standard nema 42 sized
[00:32:00] <SWPadnos> what drives are you going to use?
[00:32:12] <Guest516> leadshine m880a's
[00:32:32] <Guest516> little undersized, but i'm going to put some fans a a good sized heat sink on them
[00:32:40] <Guest516> plus i wont be pushing it hard
[00:32:50] <SWPadnos> are those the Gecko clones, or the new design?
[00:33:00] <Guest516> they are superior electric m112-fj-327 motors
[00:33:06] <Guest516> new design i believe
[00:33:29] <SWPadnos> ok, they may have a high enough current/voltage then
[00:33:48] <SWPadnos> (I don't know the motor specs, but I do know that 9.2A is past a gecko or a clone :) )
[00:33:52] <Guest516> 7.8a max, but the existing ones in the machine are only rated for 8a max
[00:34:11] <Guest516> and they lasted for 30 years
[00:34:19] <Guest516> 30 plus years actually lol
[00:35:09] <Guest516> i figured with a 3hp spindle motor i'd max out the spindle before i maxed out the steppers
[00:35:46] <SWPadnos> could well be
[00:35:50] <Guest516> but then again everything i know about steppers and drives i learned in the past week or 2, so it's likely that i'm wrong
[00:36:01] <SWPadnos> though larger motors tend to lose torque much faster as you increase speed
[00:36:22] <SWPadnos> oops. gotta finish this order in the next 20 minutes. bbiab
[00:36:34] <Guest516> thanks for the help, seeya
[00:37:08] <steve_stallings> SWPadnos: ABS needs to be cut with a SHARP cutter, two flute would be better than four, take a bite several mils thick, don't rub or scrub, not work hardnening (obviously) but rather melting plastic is your enemy
[00:37:37] <SWPadnos> thanks. any coatings or anything?
[00:37:54] <SWPadnos> cobalt is about as cheap as HSS, so I may get that for future needs
[00:38:19] <steve_stallings> never found any lube that helped, so I cut it dry
[00:38:46] <SWPadnos> I think McMaster says that TiCn or TiN are better for plastics (less sticking I guess)
[00:38:56] <steve_stallings> amazingly ABS is abrasive, so it will wear cutters quickly
[00:39:12] <SWPadnos> dry is good. cleaning pebbled beige cases is a bitch
[00:39:23] <SWPadnos> ok, so maybe cobalt is a good thing
[00:39:28] <steve_stallings> maybe it is the coloring agent that is abrasive
[00:40:53] <steve_stallings> backing the workpiece to support it is helpful
[00:41:10] <SWPadnos> yeah. I noticed that on a test cut
[00:42:13] <steve_stallings> did a couple of thousand connector notches in ABS using a horizontal mill, only machine I have that ever actually earned its keep, but then I bought it for $25
[00:43:00] <steve_stallings> paid more to have some old cutters professionally sharpened than I did for the machine
[00:43:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:43:15] <SWPadnos> what about shipping? :)
[00:43:53] <steve_stallings> well, the pickup was already there to haul my butt home, so the incremental cost of gas was small
[00:44:45] <cradek> steve_stallings: didn't you get a bigass lathe that you were going to retrofit?
[01:12:48] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you need to work with plastics?
[01:20:03] <tomp> tomp is now known as tomp3
[01:30:42] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, yes, I have some boards that need to go into ABS cases, with connectors poking through
[01:30:59] <steve_stallings> cradek: yes, still have it in the warehouse at the office, shop at home is hostage to economy now, so I don't know when it will move ahead
[01:31:48] <steve_stallings> actually before I retrofit it, I will have a go at getting the Fanuc T6 control running
[01:31:51] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: are you drilling or cnc milling the holes?
[01:32:16] <steve_stallings> I have almost a full set of spare boards for it, all unknown condition
[01:32:29] <SWPadnos> they've got to be milled, since the cutouts are rectangular
[01:32:50] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: .125" radius ok?
[01:32:58] <SWPadnos> nope
[01:33:10] <SWPadnos> .025-.050 maybe
[01:33:19] <SWPadnos> and that's just a maybe
[01:33:43] <SWPadnos> and I don't have a hot wire cutter either ;)
[01:33:43] <steve_stallings> that is not going to be fun in ABS, not much room for the chips to clear the cutter
[01:33:46] <JymmmEMC> *SMACK* I mean is the smallest radius being .125" ok
[01:34:34] <SWPadnos> yes, I knew what you meant, nad hte answer is no
[01:34:37] <SWPadnos> the
[01:34:39] <steve_stallings> you might consider one of those cold air guns to cool the plastic and blow the chips away
[01:34:56] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: O_o
[01:34:56] <SWPadnos> the corners need to be pretty darned square
[01:35:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well unless you find a square mill it aint gonna happen
[01:35:28] <steve_stallings> punches can work well in ABS
[01:35:35] <SWPadnos> the wall is only 0.10 thick, so if I plunge into it, I'I should be OK (stiffness aside ;) )
[01:35:42] <SWPadnos> yeah, a punch would be great
[01:36:08] <SWPadnos> this is only 3 sides, I cleverly placed the connectors such that one edge is along the case parting line
[01:36:43] <SWPadnos> so a nibble could do it, if it can do the thickness
[01:36:46] <SWPadnos> nibbler
[01:36:47] <steve_stallings> that is the same thing I did, such that I could use a horizontal cutter with a square corner
[01:37:11] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:37:21] <steve_stallings> horizontal cutter also allows better control of chip load
[01:37:53] <SWPadnos> I was also thinking of plunging into it, but I'm not sure about that
[01:38:05] <SWPadnos> it seems easy, but I dunno
[01:38:48] <steve_stallings> nice thing about horizontal cutter is all parts of the cutter edge are moving at the same speed with respect to the workpiect
[01:39:25] <steve_stallings> no spot where it is more rubbing than cutting
[01:39:53] <SWPadnos> rigth
[01:39:55] <SWPadnos> ht
[01:41:50] <steve_stallings> a friend of mine cut a small batch of 0.050" thick flat ABS panels for connector cutouts using 1/16" endmill, yield was only about 50% due to ABS melting
[01:43:05] <SWPadnos> icky
[01:43:13] <SWPadnos> I'll get freeze spray ;)
[01:44:01] <steve_stallings> alcohol mist might be cheaper
[01:44:18] <SWPadnos> I have several air cans I can hold upside down
[02:06:22] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[02:13:37] <tomp3> wood block inside box (must fill wall to wall), wood block outside, clamp in vise, mill slots, get 3 sided openings with sqr corners
[02:14:59] <SWPadnos> yep, that's the plan
[02:25:24] <JymmmEMC> http://grizzly.com/products/G9701/
[02:25:29] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://grizzly.com/products/G9701/
[02:26:08] <tomp3> wow a very fancy small wood working machine (example violin body it carved) http://www.carvewright.com/gallery/?g2_itemId=2570
[02:27:37] <tomp3> buy a set of jewelers files and an exacto saw blade first, those corner punches are crap,
[04:08:42] <JymmmEMC> no their not, maybe that brand is.
[05:20:00] <ds3> laser the connector openings
[05:54:09] <JymmmEMC> I'll laser you!
[06:15:42] <toastydeath> pew pew
[06:41:43] <alex_joni> where's teh sharks?
[06:42:31] <ds3> what context? There is a hockey team around here by that name
[06:47:52] <toastydeath> sharks, with frikkin' laser beams on their heads
[07:35:22] <ds3> hmmm
[09:22:11] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:22:31] <micges> good morning
[09:58:03] <JymmmEMC> LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoP3C76ioTU
[10:26:30] <Valen1> hey archivist check out http://www.thedesignblog.org/entry/the-100-year-alarm-clock-lives-every-second/
[10:26:37] <Valen1> you like clocks right ;->
[10:33:32] <piasdom> haha .. the gap is the end of time ?
[10:41:41] <Valen1> i guess its the "alarm"
[10:41:47] <Valen1> when it falls off 100 years has passed
[10:43:42] <piasdom> i didn't see if they said the rotation
[12:02:30] <archivist> Valen1, the drive belts will fall apart well before the end of time
[12:17:56] <Valen1> yeah but still
[12:18:04] <Valen1> only needs to last 100 years though
[12:18:11] <Valen1> (gears would be better)
[12:18:34] <Valen1> I bet that within 100 years there would probably be a power failure or 3 as well
[12:19:15] <archivist> I service clocks that are older :)
[12:53:22] <Optic> hi
[13:21:38] <jepler> micges: after the problem occurs, does the AXIS DRO display the correct position from gcode, or does it display a different position?
[13:22:03] <jepler> another way to determine if you've lost position is to note the difference between axis.2.joint-pos-cmd and axis.2.motor-pos-cmd, then home, then note the new difference.
[13:22:11] <jepler> If it changes by a lot, then you lost position
[13:22:29] <micges> so question is: where can I add some more logging, "moved to XYZ" location, "CHANGED smth on/off"
[13:23:13] <cradek> micges: I don't understand the failure yet, can you say more precisely what happens?
[13:23:14] <micges> it is only one bad move and it doesn't lost position becouse anything after bad move is correctly
[13:23:22] <jepler> "machine > set debug level"
[13:24:03] <micges> there are sended messages not executed
[13:24:50] <micges> cradek: I have program with say 10 holes
[13:24:59] <micges> 5 is correct
[13:25:18] <micges> 6 is hole with some damage(z not up correcly)
[13:25:28] <micges> 7-10 is correct
[13:25:45] <cradek> what is the incorrect motion at hole 6?
[13:26:47] <micges> wfm
[13:31:56] <micges> http://imgpaste.net/tmp/bpluj.jpg
[13:32:19] <micges> some sort of that
[13:35:27] <micges> so I'm thinking of improve debug to find that thing/bug/
[13:38:09] <micges> jepler: and for what I saw bad move isn't in preview
[13:40:03] <micges> this machine is 24/7 running so I can't play with it, I can only enable logging everything I know and then search
[13:48:53] <SWPadnos> micges, is the gouge on the entry to the hole or the exit from the hole?
[13:49:46] <Valen1> I wonder about making a tube amp for a surround sound amplifier
[13:49:58] <Valen1> just for the "oooh pretty" of it ;->
[13:50:30] <jepler> if you run the same part again, does it run the same way?
[13:50:41] <cradek> if it does that without losing position, the bad path would be shown in the backplot
[13:51:26] <jepler> yes, if it appears in the commanded position it should appear in the backplot
[13:52:18] <cradek> on the other hand, if it's a following problem (like a loose encoder coupling), it would not show in the backplot, and the machine would not later recover the correct position
[13:52:42] <archivist> if sticky slide then it could recover
[13:52:43] <cradek> so I don't feel like this problem makes sense
[13:52:55] <cradek> archivist: if it's sticky he'd get an ferror trip
[13:53:43] <cradek> if not getting an ferror, you know commanded and feedback match, so either you have an incorrect command, or you have feedback not matching the actual machine position
[13:54:12] <cradek> neither of these sounds like the described problem, yet I think they are the only two possibilities
[13:54:58] <archivist> head loose on carriage
[13:55:25] <cradek> tool getting pulled out and then pushing back in at the next drill?
[13:55:43] <archivist> for a 24/7 machine then a service perhaps
[13:55:44] <jepler> yeah, I was just thinking about that
[13:55:58] <cradek> examining the ruined part very carefully might tell you something
[13:56:18] <jepler> I ruin circuit boards like that, but it's never pushed the tool back in afterwords
[13:57:59] <jepler> (the first part of this conversation was logged http://linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emcdevel/2009-05-12.txt starting at around 13:11)
[13:58:02] <micges> i'm noticing things to check when next time will happen, thanks
[13:58:08] <cradek> IMO the backplot will tell you with almost certainty whether it's a software or hardware problem.
[13:59:09] <cradek> oh I misread earlier: you said the problem is not seen in PREVIEW, you did not say not seen in BACKPLOT
[14:00:10] <cradek> micges: what gcode is the program using to drill the holes?
[14:00:40] <micges> g1z-0.8f200 :)
[14:00:51] <cradek> ok, not a drill cycle
[14:01:00] <micges> and small g3 after that
[14:01:17] <cradek> full circle g3 then g0 up?
[14:01:23] <micges> yes
[14:01:41] <cradek> using tolerance mode? I remember there was a fix recently about this.
[14:02:23] <jepler> the full-circle fix?
[14:02:31] <micges> yes using latest 2.3 branch
[14:03:02] <micges> full circle problem I have on 2d laser, never on mill
[14:05:23] <micges> jepler: cradek: I'll use your advices for tracking it, thnak you
[14:05:31] <micges> *thank you
[14:05:41] <cradek> hope you find it!
[14:07:23] <cradek> micges: if you find that the bad path is shown in backplot, keep a screen shot and the gcode.
[14:08:11] <micges> sure
[14:13:42] <micges> bbl
[16:27:13] <cradek> nice enco special deal today only: "Take 10% off your order and get Free UPS Shipping"
[16:27:34] <cradek> er, and tomorrow I think
[16:30:56] <jepler> hmm, what do I need from them?
[16:31:05] <jepler> it's such a great deal I should spend money immediately
[16:31:36] <cradek> Apply Promo Code WBMYC9, then apply WBMYDD.
[16:33:40] <jepler> (actually I'm trying *not* to buy anything more for electronics or cnc until after fest .. I spent more than I'd like lately, between my unexpected computer purchase, the beagleboard, and the mesa stuff..)
[16:34:17] <cradek> I'm doing that too
[16:37:26] <skunkworks> another 8 rows of shingles up last night. so far so good. (supposed to get windy though)
[16:50:52] <BJT-Work> the last ridge cap is the best one... you get to glue it on :)
[17:21:41] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: shingles?! Dude you're suppose to go green and plant grass up there!
[17:22:25] <JymmmEMC> jepler: what computer did ya get?
[17:45:35] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: one with a cooler like this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/11/koolance/
[17:46:20] <BJT-Work> that's cool
[17:47:00] <alex_joni> indeed
[17:48:45] <jepler> JymmmEMC: I got a system based on Phenom 9600 to replace an older AMD X2 that failed unexpectedly
[17:49:53] <JymmmEMC> jepler: ah, ok
[17:49:57] <jepler> biostar ta790gx xe + phenom 9600 agena 95W + antec earthwatts 430W + existing case and ram
[17:50:00] <jepler> nothing extraordinary
[17:50:41] <JymmmEMC> Heh, the name "biostar" just sounds cheap to me every time I see it. No idea why though.
[17:52:27] <jepler> the motherboard got decent reviews on newegg, and I was able to establish the linux compatability of most of the onboard stuff before buying.
[17:55:09] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Oh no, it's just how the name sounds to me is all. =)
[17:55:12] <jepler> the failed motherbard was gigabyte brand, the system *that* one had replaced is biostar brand (circa 2005) and is still going strong
[17:56:36] <JymmmEMC> Aint this the shits... Thinkpad t60 Core 2 Duo Supports up to 4GB ram. But the chipset 945GM and 945PM only support up to 3GB. Right on IBM's website too.
[17:57:45] <jepler> ugh, really?
[17:58:17] <JymmmEMC> Yeah
[17:59:21] <JymmmEMC> Is it me but when you say that it supports 4GB and you know it doesn't that's false advertising.
[18:03:53] <JymmmEMC> jepler: See MEMORY section: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-62487
[18:14:41] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: that page suggest you can get a T60 with a different chipset
[18:17:08] <motioncontrol> Hello alex.ok for Yemc.One question: Yemc can control circular axis.I prove at modification in ini file ,the axis r, p or w at circular ,but have the error. because?
[18:17:11] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: where do you see that?
[18:18:06] <jepler> motioncontrol: because the axfis names are XYZ ABC UVW. RPW are not axis names.
[18:18:30] <jepler> R, P and W are used for other purposes in emc gcode -- for instance, R is used to specify arcs
[18:18:45] <jepler> well, W is an axis name, but it's not part of the trio RPW
[18:20:55] <motioncontrol> oK the solution is add the a or b or C axis in Yemc? I want retrofit one maschine with 5 axis xyz and a and B axis. Is possible whith Yemc?
[18:21:15] <cradek> why do you think you want to use yemc for this?
[18:21:52] <motioncontrol> becAUSE YEMC CAN CONTROL6 AXIS , XEMC ONLY 3 axis.
[18:22:10] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: that's my interpretation of that paragraph
[18:23:08] <cradek> xemc and yemc have not been maintained for almost ten years. there are two other guis that are a better choice, tkemc and AXIS.
[18:23:27] <cradek> both support all nine axes and nontrivial kinematics machines.
[18:23:45] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: More than likely (depending on specific model) you'll get one of those chipsets listed
[18:24:05] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: And of course their website just went down.
[18:26:19] <motioncontrol> yes i thing use the axis if no possible use circular axis on yemc.
[18:30:22] <jepler> in any case, decompose the problem into two smaller parts: getting a working conifuration with B and C axes using tkemc or axis; second, get the gui of your choice working, if that is important.
[18:33:51] <motioncontrol> Ok i want use xemc or yemc because my client normaly are habitual at work with simple interface.Now i have add at ini file U axis and have the error :setaxes faling: axis=4 axismask=47.
[18:36:13] <jepler> review the description of "COORDINATES" and "AXES", and see whether you can determine the proper setting (you probably have AXES set wrong): http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[TRAJ]-section
[18:41:46] <motioncontrol> Yes thenks for help.I have add in coordinate xyza and home 0 0 0 0 and set the axis x y and z linear and a circular . Yem run but not visulalized the a axis in gui.
[18:45:04] <motioncontrol> If i write in coordinates xyzrp, and set the r and p axis 0 linear the yemc run ok and visualized ok the gui.If i change the r and p in circular have the error INIFILE: ERR_CONVERSION, section=AXIS_4, tag=TYPE, num=1, lineNo=219
[18:45:20] <jepler> THERE ARE NO R AND P AXES
[18:45:32] <jepler> the rotational axes are called A B and C
[18:46:20] <motioncontrol> Yes i undertsant.But the a b and c axis not visualized in yem, because is old project ?
[18:46:32] <jepler> <cradek> xemc and yemc have not been maintained for almost ten years.
[18:47:16] <motioncontrol> ok thanks in use axis or tkemc for maschine
[18:49:16] <motioncontrol> one question above indicized site. I write on emc chat whith old nick name.Is possible delete at google indicized ?
[18:49:36] <jepler> no, the logs are never deleted or modified.
[18:50:20] <motioncontrol> ok thanks for your patience jepler
[19:05:56] <jepler> I've just had my new business idea: a by-the-hour machine shop with espresso bar. it'll be called Precision Grounds.
[19:07:30] <archivist> hehe
[19:08:42] <archivist> I went machine collecting today, fetch the bosses new toy
[19:09:04] <jepler> ooh anything cool?
[19:09:59] <archivist> a Theil milling machine
[19:10:23] <archivist> ebay 180348961816
[19:11:31] <archivist> been sitting outside for a while but seems ok so far
[19:13:37] <alSMT> like that table
[19:13:57] <archivist> rotates a few ways
[19:14:22] <alSMT> sweet
[20:06:38] <geo01005> So suppose that I wanted to replace a PLC with a computer running EMC/RTAI so that I can get good real time performance.
[20:07:17] <geo01005> Is there a good way to coverup, replace, or modify AXIS to have a generic HMI?
[20:07:55] <cradek> what does the machine and PLC do? sounds like it's not like a mill or lathe.
[20:09:17] <geo01005> No it wouldn't even run g code, however it would need to control two axis of motion.
[20:09:35] <cradek> maybe you need HAL more than you need EMC
[20:09:38] <geo01005> it would just be processing some wire.
[20:09:51] <cradek> EMC pretty much runs gcode, and AXIS is the interface for that
[20:10:08] <jepler> your "UI" could either be made using pyvcp, or by a program in any language you like that uses HAL APIs directly (C, C++ and Python being the easiest since there are existing bindings)
[20:10:35] <archivist> geo01005, there are wire bending machines using EMC iirc
[20:10:37] <jepler> "halrun" lets you use the hal environment without loading any of the gcode specific stuff
[20:11:03] <cradek> if you're replacing a PLC, maybe you solution would be part or mostly classicladder
[20:11:05] <geo01005> Hmm that sound like what I would like to do.
[20:11:06] <cradek> your
[20:11:43] <geo01005> I would like to avoid writing the code in ladder logic.
[20:12:59] <geo01005> However, some of the program would require something like classicaldder, so maybe I would use a combination of hal and classic ladder.
[20:14:24] <geo01005> So it would be possible to make a really nice looking interface with c++ and QT?
[20:14:40] <jepler> that depends whether you think it's possible to make a really nice looking interface with c++ and QT
[20:15:12] <geo01005> Well I like the look of QT apps :)
[20:15:53] <cradek> I just have to say I'm 100% behind jepler's answer there
[20:15:58] <jepler> I don't know of any reason a qt program can't also be a hal userspace component, which would communicate with the realtime parts of your system through hal signals
[20:16:56] <geo01005> By the way the last version of this machine we built used National Instruments hardware and Labview.
[20:17:02] <cradek> in your place I'd consider whether I could use all real controls instead of a gui
[20:17:18] <cradek> depends on the problem domain and complexity of course
[20:17:20] <geo01005> jepler: that is mostly was axis is anyhow right?
[20:17:47] <jepler> geo01005: no, axis uses the nml interface to talk to task (it's very gcode centric)
[20:17:57] <geo01005> ahh I see.
[20:18:14] <alex_joni> I'd say machining centric, not necessarely gcode centric
[20:18:41] <alex_joni> it is (in theory at least) possible to swap out the interpreter in emc2 from gcode to some other language
[20:19:05] <alex_joni> doing that will probably isolate a _LOT_ of places where gcode specific things have been done in emc/emc2
[20:19:10] <geo01005> I just have had a better experience working with hal that I did working with NI software.
[20:19:15] <jepler> anyway, the way axis sends "cycle start" is through nml, not through hal
[20:19:23] <jepler> that's the distinction I was trying to make
[20:19:24] <alex_joni> the effort is probably bigger than the clean GUI though
[20:19:58] <alex_joni> geo01005: maybe if you describe the problem you're solving we can be more specific with advices
[20:20:25] <alex_joni> is there some program involved in that machine?
[20:20:37] <alex_joni> or is it a predefined state machine?
[20:21:15] <geo01005> Well I hate the position I'm in, I'm working on automating a proprietary production processs that I'm not at liberty to discuss but I'll try to explain what I'm working on a little better.
[20:21:36] <alex_joni> I guess the distinction is: does the process ever change?
[20:21:50] <alex_joni> is there some sort of "program" to change the process?
[20:21:58] <alex_joni> or is it a PLC rigid programming
[20:22:11] <geo01005> Well the previous machine had pre-defined states.
[20:22:14] <alex_joni> and if the process changes, the PLC gets reprogrammed
[20:22:59] <geo01005> I havn't used a PLC for this process, but there is pressure to move to a less expensive controller than NI hardware/software.
[20:23:43] <anonimasu> hmm
[20:23:49] <anonimasu> interesting
[20:23:52] <geo01005> So the machine has an idle stage, a setup stage and a processing stage, as well as an e-stop stage.
[20:24:18] <geo01005> durring the idle stage I need to be able to jog two stepper motors.
[20:24:27] <alex_joni> gotta run.. bbl
[20:24:32] <cradek> sounds like you want four knobs and a jogwheel
[20:24:42] <cradek> (or something like that)
[20:24:54] <geo01005> It could be a simple as that.
[20:25:03] <geo01005> as simple...
[20:25:35] <geo01005> There is also some process measurement that needs to happen.
[20:26:37] <geo01005> and it would be good to be able to display some things like wire feed rate, fluid flowrate, and some other parameters to the user.
[20:27:39] <geo01005> I would want to use all tactile buttons and switches, but just display stuff on a monitor.
[20:28:44] <jepler> it should be possible, but I think you'll face a fair amount of time coding the GUI and the realtime part
[20:29:22] <jepler> communicating between the GUI and the realtime part through either HAL signals or RTAPI shared memory regions is possibly unlike anything you've done before
[20:29:33] <anonimasu> you should really look into how much you need to learn in order to do this
[20:29:52] <anonimasu> and the time it takes to use a proper plc with gui support for changing parameters and stuff
[20:29:56] <jepler> there are no function calls across the userspace-realtime barrier, just shared memory (with HAL signals being a special case of it)
[20:29:46] <geo01005> well so I was thinking of using axis and a pyvcp as a spring board to see if it is doable.
[20:29:57] <anonimasu> people always forget how much time they spend in order to save pennies on hardware.
[20:30:29] <geo01005> by the way, I can't find many plc
[20:30:32] <cradek> if you have some dacs you could display things like rates on real analog meters
[20:30:40] <geo01005> 's fast enough to do what I want to do.
[20:30:48] <anonimasu> geo01005: what kind of cycletimes are you talking about?
[20:30:56] <anonimasu> and how fast scanrate?
[20:31:01] <geo01005> cradek, yes that is a good idea.
[20:31:38] <geo01005> ananimasu: about .5ms to 1ms.
[20:31:50] <anonimasu> that's not specially fast
[20:32:12] <geo01005> I need to read a adc every scan.
[20:32:55] <anonimasu> the problem is that 90% of all hardware like that is filtered..
[20:33:33] <geo01005> BTW i'm not terribly knowledgeable about PLCs, perhaps if you know of one that you think would do the job that might be a better option for me.
[20:33:35] <cradek> I think mesa has some very new product(s?) with adc
[20:33:51] <jepler> new enough to not have support in emc's driver yet
[20:34:01] <cradek> yep
[20:34:04] <geo01005> yes I'm aware of that.
[20:34:30] <anonimasu> geo01005: sigmatek, siemens, 3s(codesys) running on some random kind of hardware
[20:35:01] <anonimasu> I dont know alot more, mitsubishi(but they work like fan controller imho)
[20:35:48] <geo01005> although the I was thinking that vital systems motenc-Lite boards are supported in hal?
[20:35:55] <anonimasu> neither one is really cheap, though.
[20:36:13] <cradek> yes there is a driver for those
[20:36:15] <anonimasu> mitsubishi is, but then they wont do the cycletimes you want :)
[20:37:28] <jepler> as far as I know, everything documented works properly, but I have never owned a motenc card myself: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/drivers_motenc.html
[20:39:17] <geo01005> I understand that the motenc card dosn't have built in hardware stepper support like the mesa boards right?
[20:39:32] <jepler> that's right, it's servo-oriented
[20:39:53] <jepler> what step rates do you require? you might be able to mix smart adc with dumb step generation..
[20:40:06] <geo01005> I think that would work fine.
[20:40:13] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm hoping to add spi adc support to the hostmot2 driver at fest
[20:40:22] <geo01005> I'm thinking 10k to 15k
[20:41:18] <geo01005> seb_kuzminsky:Do you think that spi support can be added by the end of the fest?
[20:41:35] <seb_kuzminsky> not sure, but i hope so
[20:41:42] <geo01005> that would be cool :)
[20:42:39] <seb_kuzminsky> which reminds me, i need to pick up a MAX6675 and a K thermocouple to bring with me
[20:42:51] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky goes to raid the supply closet
[20:44:19] <geo01005> so are there any examples of the hal api with userspace applications?
[20:45:59] <jepler> the old halvcp might be closest to what you're looking for, since it's a C program that mediates between HAL pins and GUI elements..
[20:46:44] <jepler> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/hal/user_comps/vcp/?hideattic=0;only_with_tag=v2_2_branch#dirlist
[20:46:59] <geo01005> but hey, if I use all switches and analog meters, then I don't really need to worry about that part right?
[20:48:21] <jepler> right
[20:49:06] <geo01005> seb_kuzminsky: do you have any ideas about how SPI will work in hm2, or are you just planning to wing it at the fest?
[20:51:39] <jepler> for writing realtime components: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_comp.html
[21:13:14] <seb_kuzminsky> geo01005: no real plans yet ;-)
[21:14:59] <geo01005> seb_kuzminsky: good luck :)
[21:15:04] <seb_kuzminsky> free sample on the way - thanks Maxim :-)
[21:15:31] <geo01005> If they don't come in time I can send you an extra.
[21:15:58] <seb_kuzminsky> i have a 7i65 to test with, it's got a couple of different spi chips on it
[21:16:35] <geo01005> cool.
[22:22:36] <alex_joni> good night all