#emc | Logs for 2009-05-07

[00:01:28] <LawrenceG> looking
[00:02:43] <JymmmEMC> also "cnc ploter - dvd-rw laser diode bruns foxracing logo on wood"
[00:04:16] <JymmmEMC> also "20x DVD-RW laser diode burning"
[00:17:08] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks405: LawrenceG http://1000mwlaserpointer.blogspot.com/
[01:16:31] <jmkasunich> well, at least they are honest about the condition: http://cgi.ebay.com/1995-FADAL-VMC40-BAD-WORNOUT-BALLSCREW_W0QQitemZ150343866972QQ
[01:20:30] <tomp> tomp is now known as tomp3
[01:21:43] <tomp3> suddenly & repeatedly when starting on a rip that worked yesterday... "Starting EMC2... module_helper is not setuid root" any fix?
[01:22:16] <toastydeath> find module_helper and setuid root?
[01:22:23] <toastydeath> (no, sorry)
[01:22:55] <jmkasunich> module_helper is a program that loads kernel modules (emc2 realtime components)
[01:23:20] <jmkasunich> did you recompile since yesterday?
[01:23:27] <tomp3> no
[01:23:38] <tomp3> should i check perms? where ?
[01:24:10] <jepler> look at bin/module_helper
[01:24:13] <jmkasunich> run-in-place, right? search in your checkout tree
[01:24:29] <tomp3> yes rip, will do thx
[01:24:30] <jmkasunich> if you forget the "sudo make setuid" step after "make", you will get this symptom
[01:24:49] <jepler> if it is not setuid (4th letter of 'ls -l' permission is "s") then do what jmkasunich said
[01:24:51] <jmkasunich> but if it was working yesterday and you _didn't_ compile since, then it is a mystery
[01:25:02] <jepler> additionally, the timestamp may tell you that you actually did rebuild and just forgot
[01:25:12] <tomp3> this rip has worked all thru taiwan back to usa, so 6 months old & 6 months solid
[01:25:14] <tomp3> hahahah
[01:27:49] <tomp3> wow, aint got no bin/module_helper got src & .o , lloks like it got deletified
[01:28:34] <tomp3> >now< I'll rebuild
[01:30:43] <tomp3> make clean?
[01:31:04] <jmkasunich> you should be able to just do make and sudo make setuid
[01:31:11] <tomp3> k
[01:32:47] <tomp3> works now ( make ruins fast when only 1 file is gone )
[01:32:57] <tomp3> make runs fast ;)
[01:34:53] <tomp3> actually it ran this afternoon, and then i got the bright idea to show someone the vismach config, and it puked as above. so the file went missing between the 2 sequential runs.
[01:35:44] <tomp3> and vismach runs too
[01:38:03] <tomp3> thanks
[01:55:44] <Goslowjimbo> That switch on my mill I had trouble with being erratic isn't a problem now. The Z axis went right through it. Didn't slow it down that much.
[01:56:26] <Goslowjimbo> At least it stopped before it crashed the leadscrew.
[01:57:34] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Is it june yet?
[02:07:07] <skunkworks405> 3 sheets of osb on the roof. :)
[02:07:22] <skunkworks405> http://sections.asme.org/milwaukee/history/21-ncmachinelv.html
[02:07:33] <skunkworks405> (unrelated) ;)
[02:12:42] <toastydeath> that is an awesome picture
[02:17:53] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks405: 3 sheets? that's an awefully small roof
[02:19:45] <skunkworks405> heh - not bad for the starter sheets. and starting at 7:00
[02:19:58] <JymmmEMC> of?
[02:20:00] <skunkworks405> and just me
[02:20:16] <skunkworks405> first 3 sheets of osb on the roof
[02:20:22] <JymmmEMC> roof of?
[02:20:28] <skunkworks405> garage
[02:20:44] <skunkworks405> http://imagebin.ca/img/0mJIsBF.jpg
[02:20:56] <JymmmEMC> oh, I thought you meant that was the WHOLE roof = 24sq ft * 3
[02:21:03] <skunkworks405> heh - no
[02:21:30] <JymmmEMC> is that as tall as you could get a permit for?
[02:21:32] <skunkworks405> about 1/3 of the way across the front edge.
[02:21:36] <skunkworks405> yes
[02:21:40] <JymmmEMC> sucks
[02:21:40] <skunkworks405> 15ft total
[02:21:50] <skunkworks405> 10ft walls though - nice.
[02:21:51] <JymmmEMC> Hey, could have gone lower slab?
[02:22:08] <JymmmEMC> sub-garage
[02:22:35] <skunkworks405> the issue was as it it - the footings are sitting on rock
[02:22:42] <JymmmEMC> gotcha
[02:22:44] <skunkworks405> *is
[02:23:16] <JymmmEMC> have you seen those new sky lights?
[02:23:18] <SWPadnos> that's what dynamite is for
[02:23:41] <skunkworks405> sola tubes?
[02:23:51] <JymmmEMC> they are thing mirrored tubes that go from the roof to the ceiling
[02:23:54] <skunkworks405> yes
[02:24:10] <SWPadnos> you're not putting a ceiling in, are you?
[02:24:12] <JymmmEMC> it might be nice for lighting
[02:24:33] <skunkworks405> not yet. maybe when it gets insulated. it also has 4 4'X4' windows in it.
[02:24:35] <JymmmEMC> Well, a ceiling would let him install insulation
[02:24:40] <SWPadnos> garages are meant to have accessible rafters - that's where you put all your wood/metal stock and boxes
[02:24:53] <SWPadnos> and unused toys, small boats, etc.
[02:25:04] <JymmmEMC> that's an oxymoron
[02:25:06] <skunkworks405> fireworks..
[02:25:29] <JymmmEMC> why have used toys if your not gonna use them
[02:25:33] <JymmmEMC> unused
[02:25:56] <SWPadnos> you can put in insulation, you just sheetrock the underside of the roof instead of making a separate horizontal ceiling
[02:26:04] <SWPadnos> no JymmmEMC, you're not thinking about the kids ;)
[02:26:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: fsck the kids, let them get their own toys!
[02:26:51] <SWPadnos> well, I'd just stick the kids in the rafters, but then again I'm not a kid person
[02:27:46] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks405: you should plan for ext lighting too
[02:28:29] <SWPadnos> heh. that's the other problem with ceilings - they make future wiring upgrades more difficult :)
[02:29:06] <JymmmEMC> Not if you pre-plan for expansion in the first place. J-Boxes are cheap enough
[02:29:40] <JymmmEMC> a stick of conduct, jbox, stick, j-box, etc =)
[02:30:19] <SWPadnos> yeah, a junction box (or two) on every riser (or whatever they're called in the frame) might be enough
[02:33:11] <SWPadnos> well I'll be. Hammond has errors in their drawings for the enclosure I ordered
[02:34:35] <kirk_wallace> Hello. I need to hook up a pyVCP three button radio button to set an HAL signal value. Does anyone have a handy way to convert 3 bits to one of three preset values?
[02:35:07] <SWPadnos> radio buttons aren't separate bits (or shouldn't be), they should output one integer
[02:36:49] <kirk_wallace> I did a halmeter on the radio buttons and they where listed as true or false, but I can check again.
[02:37:01] <jmkasunich> you could use a mux4
[02:37:13] <jmkasunich> hook two of the three bits to the select inputs
[02:37:51] <jmkasunich> 01 = first value, 10 = second value, 00 = third value (since if the first two are off the 3rd one must be pressed)
[02:38:03] <jmkasunich> 11 will never happen, so just leave that mux input unconnected
[02:38:26] <jmkasunich> you can stick values on the mux inputs with setp if you don't connect any signals to them
[02:38:27] <kirk_wallace> The problem with mux4 is that it uses a binary value for the select input, so I would need to go from bits to binary.
[02:38:59] <jmkasunich> you have three bits, right? button0, button1, button2
[02:39:09] <kirk_wallace> yes
[02:39:23] <jmkasunich> connect button0 to mux4.0.sel0, connect button1 to mux4.0.sel1, connect button2 to nothing at all
[02:40:02] <jmkasunich> if button0 is on, the mux will read from in1, if button1 is on, the mux will read from in2, and if button3 is on, the mux will read from in0
[02:42:38] <SWPadnos> kirk_wallace, do you mean you need an integer output instead of a float?
[02:43:24] <kirk_wallace> I just need to give jog-scale one of three values.
[02:43:47] <SWPadnos> ok, that's a float, so the mux setup jmkasunich is describing should work
[02:44:20] <kirk_wallace> I was trying to test things before having a real switch.
[02:45:22] <tomp3> true? 'will read from' means something like.. the output will be the value you chose for button0, not the bit value of the button ... so the stimulus of bit0 causes the output of a float alligned to the event.
[02:45:48] <SWPadnos> no idea
[02:45:49] <jmkasunich> mux4 is basically a 4 way selector switch
[02:46:07] <jmkasunich> two select bits tell it what input to use
[02:46:17] <jmkasunich> four float inputs give it values to chose from
[02:46:24] <jmkasunich> one float output gets the selected value
[02:47:00] <tomp3> right
[02:47:02] <tomp3> thx
[02:48:06] <kirk_wallace> I missed the fact that 0 has an output. I think I was looking at Ander's sample that has a mux4.
[02:49:02] <kirk_wallace> Thanks jmk, swp, tom.
[02:49:04] <tomp3> someplace the radio button should have a default wakeup value
[02:51:07] <jepler> a glance at the source implies it's hardcoded to the first one
[02:51:35] <tomp3> how about a 'wonderbar' widget, it scanned up or down the radio to next strong station... it could go up or down to next table value
[02:52:13] <SWPadnos> only if it receives SETI signals
[02:53:02] <tomp3> radio metaphors ;)
[02:53:45] <SWPadnos> it would be ideal to have different radiobutton widgets actually
[02:54:08] <SWPadnos> like one that lets you specify the type and the values to be output depending on which button is selected
[02:54:20] <SWPadnos> or one that's like now - several bits
[02:54:49] <tomp3> what was the html map trick.. any picture and rectangle areas were hot spots assigned to actions
[02:55:10] <SWPadnos> I don't know what you're talking about
[02:55:17] <tomp3> html maps
[02:55:19] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos is not an HTML guy
[02:55:20] <SWPadnos> sure
[02:55:23] <tomp3> k
[02:55:48] <SWPadnos> actually, I think you could specify rectangles or line-drawing-like regions
[02:56:16] <SWPadnos> but I don't know what "trick" you're referring to (or if it's supposed to be related to pyvcp radio buttons :) )
[02:56:31] <tomp3> its like, take a photo of a fanuc and make the run button in the phot cause ... run
[02:56:39] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[02:56:58] <SWPadnos> I had to do that in LabView once
[02:57:00] <SWPadnos> not for a Fanuc
[02:57:20] <tomp3> is that when you began hating labview ;)
[02:57:22] <SWPadnos> I ended up having to make a complete LV panel with buttons that were clear
[02:57:27] <SWPadnos> it's one of the times :)
[02:58:20] <SWPadnos> what was really annoying was trying to select the damned things to change parameters
[02:58:31] <SWPadnos> they were sometimes transparent to the editor too :)
[02:59:06] <tomp3> no marching ant outline or hotspot highlight
[02:59:11] <SWPadnos> I think I had to delete the background image a few times because it would end up getting dragged around when I tried to select the region the buttons were in
[02:59:30] <SWPadnos> well, or go to the diagram instead of the panel and select it there
[03:00:06] <SWPadnos> I stopped by the NI booth at ESC to watch their cool Guitar-Hero-playing robot
[03:00:48] <SWPadnos> the salesman asked me if I had used LV, and how I liked it
[03:00:51] <SWPadnos> so I told him :)
[03:02:46] <tomp3> i still like the idea of programs that look like subway maps
[03:03:11] <SWPadnos> and about as usable
[03:03:40] <SWPadnos> for what it was originally designed for, it's actually quite good
[03:04:04] <SWPadnos> it's when they tried to expand that to other things, like embedded, realtime, FPGA, and general programming, that it got to be annoying
[03:04:36] <SWPadnos> for a system control panel for an industrial or scientific process, with pretty graphs and controls that look like a physical panel, it's nice
[03:04:50] <tomp3> want it originally for small processes? oil crackers ...yeh
[03:05:09] <SWPadnos> it was originally so industrial processes could be set up without having to make expensive custom control panels
[03:05:09] <tomp3> wasnt
[04:58:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Is it June yet?
[05:19:35] <toastydeath> there's a latex plugin for pidgin
[05:19:40] <toastydeath> that generates gifs
[05:19:44] <toastydeath> and sends them inline
[05:31:19] <ds3> has anyone look into running EMC on the PicoITX?
[05:32:59] <ds3> nevermind, stock config doesn't include a parallel port
[05:49:33] <Gent> whoa...
[05:49:58] <Gent> anyone know a jlmjvm who used to or still doe chat here?
[05:51:21] <eric_unterhausen> does he owe you money?
[05:51:25] <Gent> no
[05:51:38] <Gent> I found a log from this channel while searching for Contour Design Shuttle Linux
[05:51:49] <kasuga> I don't know of him, sorry, maybe somebody else does?
[05:52:08] <eric_unterhausen> someone here with that nick a lot
[05:52:22] <eric_unterhausen> but I'm not sure if it is some other nic too
[05:52:51] <Gent> hrm...
[05:53:03] <Gent> Jymmm and alex_joni were in the log too...
[05:53:15] <Gent> anyway... anyone here use a contour shuttle?
[05:54:07] <eric_unterhausen> it's not a common subject of discussion
[05:54:40] <eric_unterhausen> is that a usb jog wheel?
[05:54:50] <alex_joni> Gent: I am familiar with the nick, but nothing more than that
[05:55:05] <Gent> eric_unterhausen: yeah
[05:55:23] <kasuga> Is it OK to use the version upgrade button (it appeared by itself) from 8.04 LTS to 8.04.1 LTS? I'm guessing yes, but would like to be sure first.
[05:56:03] <eric_unterhausen> this is a channel for a cnc controller, jog wheel is a method of moving machine tools
[05:56:45] <Gent> Yes, well I was simply curious as to whether anyone used it or had an interest in it...
[05:57:53] <Gent> and was hoping to speak with that person, but alas, they do not seem like a regular
[05:58:07] <eric_unterhausen> most of us here would be somewhat interested in one
[05:58:43] <Gent> are most of you developers for this EMC program?
[05:59:11] <eric_unterhausen> they usually hang out here to some degree, there is a developer's channel
[06:04:47] <slick-> howdy.
[06:05:35] <eric_unterhausen> hello
[06:06:09] <slick-> how would one go about testing a stepper driver to find the best timings? I have the data sheet for the translator chip, but I don't think that is enough
[06:06:31] <eric_unterhausen> what chip?
[06:07:38] <slick-> a3982
[06:08:12] <slick-> thisis the board
[06:08:13] <slick-> http://www.reprap.org/bin/view/Main/Stepper_Motor_Driver_2_3
[06:08:30] <slick-> this is the chip
[06:08:31] <slick-> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=620-1082-ND
[06:12:18] <eric_unterhausen> that's interesting
[06:12:39] <slick-> and cheap
[06:12:49] <eric_unterhausen> have you tried it?
[06:12:59] <slick-> I built two and tested them with my arduino,
[06:13:15] <eric_unterhausen> I would just use stepconf wizard
[06:13:23] <eric_unterhausen> and play with the timings
[06:13:40] <slick-> they seem to work fine chips gets a little arm running a 2 amp stepper, but not too hot to touch continuously
[06:13:53] <slick-> warm
[06:15:58] <slick-> I've never used EMC before am I jumping in the deep end starting with an undocumented driver like this?
[06:19:47] <eric_unterhausen> I suspect it isn't that hard
[06:20:47] <eric_unterhausen> there is another allegro chip in common usage
[06:21:43] <slick-> is the driver it is in listed here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing?
[06:23:10] <eric_unterhausen> Xylotex
[06:23:14] <eric_unterhausen> I would try that
[06:23:30] <eric_unterhausen> pmdx also should be in that list, don't know why it's not
[06:24:01] <slick-> thanks
[06:25:28] <kasuga> thanks, bbl
[07:24:07] <d-puppy> hi
[07:25:11] <d-puppy> can someone tell me, what software under linux i can use to convert iges or stl to g-code for emc2 ?
[07:25:47] <eric_unterhausen> there may not be such a thing
[07:28:27] <d-puppy> hmmm
[07:28:44] <d-puppy> what about step 3d to g-code ?
[07:29:30] <eric_unterhausen> it's possible someone might know more about this in #cam
[07:29:54] <d-puppy> ok, i try it there. thanks
[07:29:55] <eric_unterhausen> emc converts g-code to motion
[07:34:44] <ds3> has anyone tried using emc to control those import laser cutter/engravers?
[07:36:30] <eric_unterhausen> probably not that hard, but may require some cutting and pasting
[07:46:49] <archivist> ds3, I thing a "less able" person has
[07:48:43] <ds3> archivist: know if it was a worthwhile effort?
[07:49:13] <archivist> for him no but he seems to fail at a few things
[07:49:21] <ds3> oh
[07:49:35] <archivist> others are running lasers ok though
[07:50:13] <archivist> Optic, and micges for example
[07:50:42] <ds3> hmmm
[07:51:43] <ds3> a laser seems to be the most effective way of cutting acrylic and those import laser cutters aren't that much more then a CNC mill
[07:52:14] <ds3> the only unknown is if the controls on the import are horrible or not
[07:54:02] <archivist> horrible by all accounts
[07:54:32] <ds3> you've used those import laser cutters?
[07:54:55] <archivist> not me no
[08:00:52] <obinou> are these laser expensive ?
[08:01:56] <ds3> a US importer is selling them for as little as $1500USD
[08:02:08] <ds3> that is cheaper then a full CNC Taig Mill or a CNC Sherline
[08:02:34] <ds3> and for stuff like acrylic, it is faster and less troublesome to cut with a laser then an EM
[08:04:10] <obinou> ok - thanks for the info. Maybe later ;-)
[10:25:47] <MrSunshine_> strange, i cant reverse with my driver for some reasno ... when going cw i do step++; if(step == 8) step = 0; for reverse i do step--; if(step == -1) step = 7; ... why wouldnt that work ? :)
[10:27:10] <archivist> single step the code in a debugger
[10:27:32] <MrSunshine_> ahh there :)
[10:27:37] <MrSunshine_> uint8_t can never reach -1 :P
[10:31:51] <JymmmEMC> you have step = 0 , not step == 0
[10:32:16] <MrSunshine_> JymmmEMC, was the unsigned problem
[10:32:21] <JymmmEMC> ah
[10:32:33] <MrSunshine_> i assign step = 0 when it hits 8 to go back to the first step in the array again you know :)
[10:33:07] <JymmmEMC> Um, wouldn't it be better to go down instead?
[10:33:39] <MrSunshine_> up then down then up then down ?
[10:33:55] <MrSunshine_> the result is the same
[10:34:00] <JymmmEMC> Well going from 9 to 0 might cause issues I'd think
[10:34:13] <JymmmEMC> could be wrong
[10:34:14] <MrSunshine_> JymmmEMC, nah the next step in the sequence is the 0 step
[10:34:30] <MrSunshine_> http://pastebin.com/m7349d8fa
[10:34:34] <archivist> JymmmEMC, its a reverse direction!! one then counts down
[10:35:05] <JymmmEMC> Well, as long as it's not a jump from 9 to -9
[10:35:25] <MrSunshine_> the sequence is 123456812345678 all the time except when reverse then its 8765432187654321
[10:36:02] <MrSunshine_> kinda cool that my homemade AVR chopper makes the motor run at 12V without any significant heat .. :)
[10:36:05] <MrSunshine_> so something is right atleast :P
[10:38:46] <MrSunshine_> tho need a faster crystal to make it perform even better i think :)
[10:50:39] <MrSunshine_> OMG
[10:50:46] <MrSunshine_> 12MM/S with the smaller motor :)
[10:51:03] <MrSunshine_> tho it doesnt sound to happy :P
[11:39:03] <skunkworks405> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=609379&postcount=39
[11:41:01] <archivist> "You can kiss servos goodbye for any serious industrial app as the the solution is not even close to linear in response" he is nuts
[11:41:20] <archivist> who is he moaning about
[11:41:24] <eric_unterhausen> talking about the cncbrain
[11:41:37] <archivist> ah that hehe
[11:42:00] <archivist> that is a box of snake oil
[11:42:09] <skunkworks405> heh
[11:43:44] <eric_unterhausen> maybe someday you will be able to put a pc in a box like that and run emc on it
[11:51:10] <roh> for you guys too: http://yamato.hyte.de/packages/heeks/ubuntu_8.10_test_may7/ please test and report problems with the packages which the source doesnt have (and propose patches if possible ;)
[12:09:25] <skunkworks405> http://imagebin.ca/img/u-m5LJ.jpg
[12:12:19] <BigJohnT> I see you got the lookout's done and started on the decking :)
[12:12:21] <archivist> machines before cars?
[12:12:42] <SWPadnos> MrSunshine_, just increment or decrement, and then AND with 0x07 to keep the index in bounds
[12:13:08] <SWPadnos> skunkworks405, hey - I have that same roller stand :)
[12:13:29] <BigJohnT> I have two of them :)
[12:13:34] <skunkworks405> Heh - It is dads :)
[12:13:36] <SWPadnos> well, me too :)
[12:13:40] <archivist> where does the overhead gantry crane fit in that shed
[12:13:41] <skunkworks405> they worked great for setting the trusses
[12:13:59] <SWPadnos> did you buy yourself a nail gun?
[12:14:17] <skunkworks405> I have a nice bostitch
[12:14:34] <skunkworks405> framing nailer. Don't leave home without it. ;)
[12:14:36] <SWPadnos> that must make it go a little faster
[12:14:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[12:14:42] <SWPadnos> don't make home without it
[12:14:53] <skunkworks405> heh
[12:15:05] <skunkworks405> overhead crane would be nice
[12:15:20] <skunkworks405> biab - going to work
[12:15:23] <SWPadnos> you'd want steel framing for that
[13:34:31] <skunkworks> thats funny. I didn't know the irc client would log back in on its own. or was that a serverside issue.
[13:34:42] <skunkworks> must have been
[13:35:06] <eric_unterhausen> that was server-side
[13:35:22] <archivist> that was a small netsplit
[13:35:22] <eric_unterhausen> pidgin logs back in on its own
[13:35:34] <archivist> and xchat does
[13:35:53] <eric_unterhausen> it's funny when your nic changes
[13:36:09] <skunkworks> I use the web based one. (on linuxcnc) because I am lazy
[13:36:36] <archivist> I use xchat coz im up 24/7
[13:40:18] <skunkworks> yes - you never seem to sleep.
[13:40:31] <skunkworks> I think you turn on an AI at some point though ;)
[13:42:10] <archivist> :)
[13:44:59] <skunkworks> would a single index work for tapping if you used spring loaded tap holders?
[13:46:06] <cradek> you couldn't use the tapping cycle (and really wouldn't need to)
[13:46:43] <skunkworks> sounds like how we tapped on the old k&t
[13:47:45] <cradek> why not just use a tapping head - it's less finicky
[13:48:40] <cradek> recently I hand-tapped a bunch of holes in HDPE because I figured my tapping head would tear out the top several threads. I guess the drawback is that you have to pull up on the tap to get it to reverse.
[13:48:58] <skunkworks> rigid tapping is just so much cooler.
[13:49:00] <skunkworks> :)
[13:49:19] <cradek> yeah, and probably gives better threads too
[13:50:05] <skunkworks> oh yah - you need to know direction for the rigid tapping to work. duh
[14:33:55] <Optic> moo
[15:16:15] <geo01005> So I don't know if anybody remembers my python programming problem (geometric constraints solver), but I just finished coded the bare minimum in c++
[15:16:39] <geo01005> python takes 16ms to solve a simple problem, c++ only takes 16 us :)
[15:18:17] <archivist> well coded C or C++ will always be faster
[15:18:51] <geo01005> 1000X?
[15:18:58] <archivist> sure
[15:19:16] <archivist> interpreted languages a slow
[15:19:35] <Optic> archivist: wrong :)
[15:19:41] <geo01005> Well anyhow, I thought it was funny.
[15:20:04] <archivist> Optic, since when are they fast
[15:20:24] <Optic> well, bytecode / vm languages are fast these days
[15:20:50] <Optic> oCAML or Java can smoke C++ for math stuff
[15:21:33] <archivist> byte code is not that much better
[15:22:39] <Optic> it's becoming almost imposible to hand-code effectively for modern cpus, with multithreading and deep piplines and such
[15:23:00] <Optic> and C/C++ languages don't offer enouch richness to allow the compiler to make appropriate optimizations
[15:23:20] <geo01005> no doubt that the slow performance in python was due to my awful code.
[15:23:31] <Optic> oh, python is shit slow :)
[15:24:46] <micges> Optic: python well coded is quite fast for me
[15:25:40] <Optic> it's fast enough for most things
[15:25:43] <Optic> and a very nice language
[15:25:57] <Optic> it's slow compared to other systems but for 99.9999% of stuff that doesn't matter
[15:26:54] <archivist> cad =.0001% ? I think not
[15:27:39] <MrSunshine_> SWPadnos, thanks :)
[17:40:03] <geo01005> It is quiet today.
[17:40:38] <skunkworks> heh
[17:40:57] <BJT-Work> heh
[17:41:35] <skunkworks> I just had to blow off some 3.5" floppies to get xp installed on a computer. (no cdrom, didn't boot from the usb -> cdrom.)
[17:42:30] <skunkworks> ah the good ol days. feeding floppies into a computer.
[17:42:51] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks wth do you mean good OLD days?
[17:43:01] <skunkworks> ol'
[17:43:09] <skunkworks> ;)
[17:43:12] <JymmmEMC> ok, ol ?
[17:43:24] <alex_joni> floppies are so 90s :P
[17:43:27] <skunkworks> heh
[17:43:27] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC waves his usb fdd
[17:43:39] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: I have one too.. doesn't change anything though
[17:43:54] <skunkworks> The thing had an interan floppy. (the disks where created with a usb floppy drive though)
[17:43:59] <skunkworks> internal
[17:44:24] <JymmmEMC> My P4 dvd-rw fw laptop has an internal fdd
[17:44:29] <BJT-Work> my favorite computer won't boot up past the Ubuntu progress bar :(
[17:44:32] <skunkworks> or as most people called them back then - hard disk drives ;)
[17:45:12] <skunkworks> (well they where harder than 5.25 disks) ;)
[17:45:19] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks Don't make me slap you with an 8 inch "floppy" - cuz ya know it's gonna hurt
[17:45:33] <alex_joni> floppy or drive?
[17:45:51] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: at 30lbs, what ya think?
[17:46:15] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: either one =)
[17:46:30] <alex_joni> yah, guess that's true
[17:47:06] <archivist_attic> shame I dont still have a 1MB drive from and IBM 1130, that would hurt ya
[17:47:15] <JymmmEMC> Damn WeirdStuff had a (non-working) 8" FDD, wanted $30 for it - bastards
[17:47:34] <alex_joni> you can always fix it :D
[17:47:46] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: what for?
[17:48:08] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: convert it to usb for portable use?
[17:49:08] <alex_joni> firewire
[17:49:14] <alex_joni> for the transfer speed
[17:49:25] <alex_joni> archivist_attic: hi
[17:49:37] <alex_joni> I saw you mentioning running some buildbot slaves in #cam
[17:49:41] <alex_joni> got room for one more?
[17:49:47] <archivist_attic> sh
[17:49:52] <archivist_attic> sure
[17:50:07] <alex_joni> I think seb was looking for buildbot slaves
[17:50:16] <alex_joni> I'll bug you when he's online
[17:50:23] <archivist_attic> I have one slave on the emc box and one on my 64bit
[17:50:43] <alex_joni> a 64bit slave would probably be something new
[17:51:04] <alex_joni> http://emc2-buildbot.colorado.edu/buildbot/buildslaves
[17:51:13] <alex_joni> that's the list of current slaves
[17:51:40] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: FW? How long do you think it take to transfer 1200KB?
[17:51:49] <archivist_attic> mine are the two right hand greens http://askmonty.org/buildbot/waterfall
[17:53:02] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Floppy_Disk_Drive_8_inch.jpg
[17:53:51] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: I used some a long time ago :)
[17:53:51] <archivist_attic> JymmmEMC, I still have a machine with 8"
[17:53:58] <Vq^> i got one of those :D
[17:54:10] <JymmmEMC> archivist ?!
[17:54:11] <Vq^> those disks are so cool
[17:54:34] <JymmmEMC> archivist Are you serious?
[17:54:52] <archivist_attic> JymmmEMC, an Aston character generator for braodcast TV
[17:55:03] <JymmmEMC> archivist freak
[17:55:03] <archivist_attic> yes serious
[17:55:32] <JymmmEMC> does it work?
[17:55:48] <archivist_attic> did last time I used it
[17:55:52] <JymmmEMC> lol
[17:57:16] <JymmmEMC> Ok, I have 2* 5.25" drives, USB ZIP Drive, and SCSI Jazz (getting rid of), but mostly to transfer stuff over for those still in the stone age.
[17:58:05] <archivist_attic> archival data transfer is getting a real problem
[17:58:15] <JymmmEMC> ?
[17:58:15] <alex_joni> I have a parport 120MB floppy
[17:58:36] <JymmmEMC> archivist_attic: how so?
[17:58:42] <Vq^> i also got a few 5.25, as well as an old external 50M winchester ACSI drive
[17:59:27] <skunkworks> I have a dual 5.25/3.5 drive
[17:59:35] <Vq^> hard to interface with ACSI these days thought
[18:00:00] <Vq^> skunkworks: it handles both?
[18:00:22] <JymmmEMC> Those were expensive
[18:00:22] <skunkworks> over/under
[18:00:36] <skunkworks> fit one bay
[18:00:52] <skunkworks> can't bring myself to get rid of it ;)
[18:01:00] <Vq^> neat :)
[18:01:09] <archivist_attic> JymmmEMC, authors die and hand over their old disks and drives
[18:01:52] <skunkworks> how can they when they are dead? ;)
[18:02:03] <alex_joni> I think they die in the process of
[18:02:23] <archivist_attic> in their will
[18:02:27] <JymmmEMC> archivistWhy do you think I keep the drives for? I have also transfered all my floppy media to emailable self-contained images.
[18:02:31] <skunkworks> ah - that makes sense
[18:03:05] <skunkworks> and barried in a watertight safe?
[18:03:55] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks burn to optical =)
[18:04:12] <archivist_attic> interesting recent is the ex MP Tony Benn still alive and kicking he has a wire recorder
[18:04:34] <skunkworks> MP?
[18:04:40] <alex_joni> how about reading knotted ropes?
[18:04:48] <archivist_attic> some opticals have a poor lifetime expectancy
[18:04:48] <JymmmEMC> wire recorder?
[18:05:06] <skunkworks> spark recorder?
[18:05:09] <archivist_attic> yes predate tape recorders
[18:05:11] <JymmmEMC> archivist thus why I copy ever 5 years.
[18:05:16] <JymmmEMC> every
[18:05:41] <archivist_attic> Member of Parliament
[18:06:48] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu
[18:08:23] <skunkworks> ah
[18:11:51] <JymmmEMC> http://www.videointerchange.com/wire_recorder1.htm
[18:15:16] <alex_joni> skunkworks: now go read a carpet :D
[18:21:14] <skunkworks> that is neat
[18:23:24] <skunkworks> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Bearbeitungszentrum_Schnittmodell_Hermle
[18:23:49] <skunkworks> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Bearbeitungszentrum_Schnittmodell_Hermle_01.jpg/442px-Bearbeitungszentrum_Schnittmodell_Hermle_01.jpg
[18:24:20] <alex_joni> cool
[18:25:28] <skunkworks> I want 2 ;)
[18:27:46] <archivist_attic> make one
[18:28:03] <JymmmEMC> 404
[18:28:57] <archivist_attic> second link is ok
[18:33:44] <JymmmEMC> 404 on 1st link
[18:34:50] <skunkworks> first link was a copy/paste error
[18:57:38] <JymmmEMC> OT: I'm working (in part) on an html form generator. What I want it to do is be able to pass it a JSON encoded container (or converted to an native array - whatever) and create the HTML form with all it's attributes. The part I've having difficulty with is defining "in-line" attributes. (No, I don't want to use any xml style open/close tag syntax) any ideas?
[18:57:59] <NewType> hi? I am modifying a configuration file generated by stepconf wizard to add one more axis, but AXIS won't show the user interface anymore. I need some help. ;p
[18:58:58] <archivist_attic> JymmmEMC, you would kickban for that offtopic in ##php :) #web
[18:59:09] <NewType> does it have to do with trivakin?
[18:59:29] <cradek> NewType: if you changed something and now get an error, say what it is you changed, and what the error is
[18:59:30] <JymmmEMC> archivist this isn't markup biotch, it's developing a data definition structure
[19:00:27] <NewType> well, it is not showing a "crash" error, so I don't know what's wrong. but after I launch EMC, and select the new configuration, EMC will show the startup logo, then the toolchange box on the lower corner, but AXIS will not show up.
[19:00:44] <NewType> when I restart EMC, it will say EMC is already running, and if I want to restart it.
[19:00:52] <NewType> so I don't know what error I am having.
[19:01:08] <cradek> hmm, the already-running thing is odd. what answer do you give it?
[19:01:25] <NewType> yes, and hope it will reload the file, and I tried it a few times.
[19:01:35] <NewType> I konw I did somethign wrong, but just don't know what.
[19:01:55] <NewType> ok, about stepconf, I did something when I set this file up.
[19:01:58] <cradek> if you run emc from the shell, you might see an error that you currently can't see if you run it from an icon or menu.
[19:02:12] <NewType> no no, I lanuch it in the X.
[19:02:29] <cradek> I understand - I'm suggesting you run it at a shell, so you can see an error that is printed.
[19:02:40] <NewType> OK. I'll try.
[19:02:44] <cradek> you can just run `emc' at the shell
[19:02:53] <NewType> let me try that next.
[19:03:18] <NewType> I need some suggestion. I am trying to get EMC to run a XYZBC configuration.
[19:03:40] <NewType> it is like the cool graphics at the CNC toolkit homepage...
[19:04:26] <cradek> ok, so you used stepconf to set up XYZ, and then you attempted to add BC manually? I bet you just have a setting wrong then.
[19:04:26] <NewType> so I use stepconfig to generate a XYZA file, and put 2 A axis in the file, and I go into the *.ini and *.hal file and change the one of the A to a B, and the 2nd A to a C. That's what I did.
[19:04:49] <cradek> ok.
[19:04:51] <NewType> is that a good way to go?
[19:05:26] <cradek> yeah it sounds like you have the general idea, we just need to figure out what you didn't get quite right.
[19:06:07] <NewType> Ok. I will try lanuching it in shell next time. I am running dual boot so I have to restart to get back to EMC. :p
[19:06:30] <NewType> but what about the trivakin line it loads? will that cause any of the problem I am having?
[19:06:32] <archivist_attic> get xchat running in ubuntu
[19:06:33] <toastatwork> http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v3331/171/100/692245082/n692245082_6809183_6548606.jpg
[19:06:37] <toastatwork> http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v646/171/100/692245082/n692245082_6809185_6945885.jpg
[19:06:43] <toastatwork> http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v646/171/100/692245082/n692245082_6809188_4357983.jpg
[19:06:48] <cradek> ok, you ought to log in to emc from linux. we can't troubleshoot very easily otherwise!
[19:06:54] <toastatwork> http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v646/171/100/692245082/n692245082_6809195_1259962.jpg
[19:06:57] <toastatwork> http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v3331/171/100/692245082/n692245082_6809196_3934895.jpg
[19:07:01] <toastatwork> http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v3331/171/100/692245082/n692245082_6809197_4966317.jpg
[19:07:05] <toastatwork> rough turning
[19:07:06] <NewType> archivist_attic: GOOD Idea!!!
[19:07:17] <cradek> depending on your machine's configuration, you may want to eventually replace trivkins with a different kind of kinematics.
[19:07:41] <NewType> I don't have any offset around C, so it shouldn't be that bad to modifiy. :)
[19:08:54] <NewType> OK, let me go boot up with xchat!
[19:09:08] <skunkworks> NewType: we need pictures also :)
[19:09:24] <cradek> heh, true
[19:09:25] <NewType> how should I 'post' here?
[19:09:31] <cradek> that will help us talk about kinematics.
[19:09:31] <NewType> I have it on my facebook. :)
[19:09:38] <cradek> NewType: imagebin.org is nice for that
[19:09:45] <cradek> pastebin.ca for text
[19:09:50] <cradek> or is it imagehin.ca?
[19:09:52] <cradek> b
[19:09:53] <cradek> argh
[19:09:57] <cradek> someone else answer this please
[19:10:01] <skunkworks> heh - I must be rubbing off
[19:10:09] <skunkworks> imagebin.ca and pastebin.ca
[19:10:11] <NewType> let me see if i can pull the facebook one quick.
[19:11:11] <NewType> one sec... still trying...
[19:13:50] <NewType> still trying...
[19:17:09] <NewType> darn it! this computer is slow!!!
[19:17:18] <NewType> I can't send the link out!
[19:17:26] <rob> if i turn on halui i get, HAL: ERROR: insufficient memory for signal etc, here is halstatus with no halui loaded > http://pastebin.com/m325b2645
[19:17:46] <rob> here is the error from the loading, with halui enabled, > http://pastebin.com/m3a524587
[19:17:48] <cradek> used/total shared memory: 118377/131000
[19:18:08] <cradek> 824 active pins!?
[19:18:26] <cradek> is this an unusually complicated hal configuration?
[19:18:38] <archivist_attic> or a mistake
[19:18:50] <rob> here is hal > http://pastebin.com/m52b0b7d1
[19:19:48] <NewType> duhhhh! here we go.
[19:19:49] <NewType> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=379074&id=1371831043
[19:20:19] <archivist_attic> thats a login page :((
[19:21:05] <NewType> humm... try this one
[19:21:05] <NewType> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=379076&l=98cba18500&id=1371831043
[19:21:33] <cradek> NewType: aha, that one worked
[19:21:39] <cradek> interesting setup.
[19:21:50] <NewType> oh good!
[19:21:56] <NewType> so that the BC axis.
[19:22:09] <NewType> no offset on B to C.
[19:22:39] <NewType> and I just need to get AXIS to show it graphically. I can get A to turn OK on the screen, but I need to modify it to work with B and C.
[19:22:45] <cradek> yeah, this is easy kinematics - only one pivot length
[19:22:54] <NewType> yep yep.
[19:23:17] <NewType> I got 3 axis to work. I just need to make the last 2 to work. :)
[19:24:03] <NewType> that's why I started with stepconf. I thought it would be easy to modify, but I was wrong. :)
[19:24:15] <micges> cradek: what is pivot on that picture?
[19:24:43] <cradek> micges: pivot length from the tool tip to where C rotates around the B line
[19:25:04] <NewType> so no offset from B to C.
[19:25:19] <micges> ah ok
[19:25:23] <archivist_attic> are there gearboxes on the end of the steppers
[19:25:36] <NewType> yep. 30:1 step ratio
[19:25:45] <archivist_attic> ok
[19:26:20] <archivist_attic> whats the machine going to do
[19:26:28] <NewType> but there's gear backslash, so it isn't that great. :)
[19:26:58] <NewType> it is for shaping foam for making composite parts, like body shapes for the Formala SAE, etc.
[19:27:25] <archivist_attic> backlash is what I was thinking about, just need to be very careful about cutting direction
[19:28:17] <NewType> the XYZ backlash isn't too bad. but the BC is. the gear head has some backlash to it. but it will do for us because we are working with foam, and the error will come in when you do the fabric layup anyway.
[19:28:29] <NewType> well, when I say bad, it is all relative. :)
[19:28:30] <cradek> rob: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/hal_priv.h.diff?r1=1.15;r2=1.16
[19:28:54] <cradek> rob: unfortunately the HAL shared memory size is hardcoded. I think you will need to change it and recompile.
[19:29:06] <rob> yea i installed from debs
[19:29:08] <NewType> about that 30:1 gear, I need to look up how to set the UNITS in the confige file.
[19:29:30] <NewType> Oh crap! I have to run. I'll be back to get the machine fix. Enjoy the pictures for now. :)
[19:29:31] <rob> so not a hal config error i made then, just i wish to use alot of pins
[19:29:43] <NewType> NewType is now known as NewType_away
[19:29:51] <archivist_attic> just fiddle the steps per rev 30 * stepper steps
[19:29:56] <cradek> rob: let's take this to #emc-devel
[19:30:22] <rob> sure
[19:58:30] <gene> hey guys! It quite raining (for an hour or so. :)
[19:58:44] <gene> need help with inkscape & potrace
[20:11:03] <gene> turns out its not potrace, but truetype-tracer I need, is CRadek about?
[20:15:33] <cradek> hi gene
[20:15:57] <cradek> I usually don't admit to being here unless I see an interesting question or conversation :-)
[20:16:21] <cradek> what's up?
[20:22:11] <gene> can I rotate the output
[20:23:12] <cradek> that's not a current feature, but you could change the program to either rotate the points internally, or generate gcode that does the rotation.
[20:23:13] <gene> I need to engrave the holdown bar of a rumba box with the note leters stacked vertical
[20:24:31] <cradek> you could do one at a time. generate just "A", then reset your origin and do "B"
[20:25:02] <gene> also is there a font that is a stick, a single line font even when traced? I thought of that, and it would be as quick I suppose
[20:26:07] <cradek> I don't know of a good stick font. the problem is that truetype and type1 fonts (the two kinds handled by truetype-tracer) are closed spline outlines, so you can't have just a stick.
[20:27:35] <gene> For rotations I can maybe do global replacements of the X & Y in that short piece of code. Whats the narrowest or thinest font then?
[20:28:01] <cradek> sorry, I don't know that.
[20:28:25] <cradek> might be easiest to rotate your part :-)
[20:28:51] <gene> ok, I'll play around & see what falls out, thanks.
[20:28:59] <cradek> welcome
[20:29:38] <gene> Unforch it is long enough that my little Y motion won't cover it.
[20:30:11] <gene> Later Chris, thanks
[20:42:01] <NewType> Back! on x-chat!
[20:42:06] <NewType> HAAH!
[20:42:47] <archivist> easy innit
[20:42:52] <NewType> yep.
[20:42:58] <NewType> ok, running emc using the terminal
[20:43:01] <NewType> I see I see!
[20:43:17] <NewType> emcTrajSetAxes failing: axes=5 axismask=37
[20:43:29] <NewType> emc/task/emctaskmain.cc 2605: can't initialize motion
[20:44:14] <NewType> so EMC is still running, and that's why AXIS isn't showing up.
[20:44:31] <hoodoo> hey all
[20:45:10] <hoodoo> cradek, are you here all the time?
[20:46:46] <NewType> humm.... what'd heck did I do wrong?
[20:47:06] <hoodoo> has anyone here had an issue having to run EMC in sudo mode
[20:47:26] <NewType> why in sudo mode?
[20:47:36] <hoodoo> i dont know, it errors otherwise
[20:47:44] <hoodoo> about shared memory
[20:47:54] <hoodoo> but works in sudo
[20:48:04] <NewType> oh. nope. the default installation gives me a user name, and it works. ;p
[20:48:07] <archivist> read the error, fix the problem
[20:48:14] <micges> NewType: set [TRAJ]AXES = 6
[20:48:17] <micges> and try
[20:48:36] <hoodoo> im not using a conventional setup
[20:49:06] <hoodoo> installed dapper from alternate cd then added emc manually - the machine has no internet
[20:49:26] <NewType> micges: why 6?
[20:49:42] <NewType> I did set [TRAJ] AXES = 5
[20:50:15] <archivist> set 6 as CB are 5 and 6
[20:50:27] <NewType> oh? really?
[20:50:54] <archivist> I remember someone else getting a problem that way
[20:51:02] <alex_joni> hoodoo: what emc2 version?
[20:51:05] <Guest572> Sorry to butt in. Is it possible to install the live-cd from a USB stick? I want to upgrade to 2.3 but my CNC controller has neither network or a CD drive.
[20:51:06] <alex_joni> how did you install?
[20:51:07] <alex_joni> etc
[20:51:23] <alex_joni> Guest572: it is.. but creating the USB stick is a bit tricky
[20:51:47] <hoodoo> usb is easy actually
[20:51:47] <alex_joni> I recently stumbled across a nice windows program called usbuntu which supposedly creates a bootable USB stick from an iso
[20:51:51] <alex_joni> never tried it though
[20:51:55] <Guest572> OK, thanks. I will just disconnect everything and drag it up to where the network is then.
[20:52:00] <hoodoo> if you run ubuntu
[20:52:16] <hoodoo> i run EMC ver 2.2.8
[20:52:34] <alex_joni> hoodoo: installed on..
[20:52:35] <hoodoo> on a celeron 1.2ghz laptop with 91mb RAM
[20:52:43] <hoodoo> runs fine
[20:52:44] <alex_joni> ubuntu ?
[20:52:46] <alex_joni> hardy?
[20:52:47] <alex_joni> dapper?
[20:52:52] <hoodoo> dapper
[20:52:55] <alex_joni> your install? linuxcnc packages?
[20:53:05] <hoodoo> yes
[20:53:11] <hoodoo> and all the dependencies
[20:53:19] <alex_joni> ok, so you didn't compile it yourself?
[20:53:25] <hoodoo> i run intrepid on this machine
[20:53:28] <alex_joni> what's the error when not starting on sudo?
[20:53:31] <hoodoo> so i can fetch packages
[20:53:41] <Guest572> I run Ubuntu on the CNC controller and MacOS on my main machine, but usbuntu might be an option with VMware
[20:53:55] <hoodoo> http://pastebin.com/md4de8eb
[20:53:56] <alex_joni> Guest572: there are tutorials for creating USB sticks
[20:54:09] <alex_joni> for linux I mean..
[20:54:23] <hoodoo> seriously, i have a tablet pc and use usb to install all OS's
[20:54:57] <hoodoo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[20:54:59] <Guest572> Aye, though to be honest I find building linux kernels etc to be rather a long way from making the clock that I am building the cnc mill/lathe to make.
[20:55:07] <hoodoo> there, just use the linuxcnc image
[20:55:27] <alex_joni> hoodoo: sounds like a /dev/rtai_shm issue
[20:55:41] <hoodoo> ok, but why only in normal user
[20:55:44] <alex_joni> did you muck with /etc/udev ?
[20:55:46] <hoodoo> not in sudo
[20:55:49] <hoodoo> nope
[20:55:51] <cradek> Guest572: back up a minute. do you want to just upgrade to 2.3 from some other version? if so, do not reinstall the OS
[20:55:53] <hoodoo> fresh install
[20:56:05] <alex_joni> super user has more rights than a regular user
[20:56:09] <NewType> archivist: more error. Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/axis", line 3300, in ?
[20:56:14] <Guest572> I just want to upgrade, yes.
[20:56:27] <alex_joni> Guest572: don't need to reinstall for that
[20:56:31] <NewType> machine_limit_min[a] = float(inifile.find(section, "MIN_LIMIT")) / unit
[20:56:32] <hoodoo> i realise that, but why would only I have to run as root
[20:56:33] <NewType> TypeError: float() argument must be a string or a number
[20:56:47] <alex_joni> Guest572: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.3
[20:56:49] <cradek> NewType: one of your MIN_LIMITs is bogus
[20:57:04] <NewType> I copied it from A axis.
[20:57:24] <alex_joni> NewType: pastebin.ca to put your ini there
[20:57:37] <Guest572> Thanks mate.
[20:57:44] <alex_joni> hoodoo: start emc2 (using sudo), then do a ls -al /dev/rtai_shm
[20:57:51] <Guest572> Err, how d o I stop being Guest572?
[20:57:55] <alex_joni> paste the line in here (if it's only one like it should be)
[20:57:59] <alex_joni> use /nick yournick
[20:58:08] <hoodoo> hoodoo is now known as jerkman
[20:58:09] <Guest572> Guest572 is now known as andypugh
[20:58:14] <jerkman> jerkman is now known as hoodoo
[20:58:17] <hoodoo> aha
[20:58:17] <andypugh> That's better
[20:58:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni tries to remember who has what issues
[20:58:40] <hoodoo> ok, i dont have the machine to hand actually
[20:58:51] <alex_joni> hoodoo: get back in here from that machine when you can
[20:59:02] <hoodoo> righty ho
[20:59:06] <alex_joni> I suspect somehow the permissions on that file are borked up
[20:59:14] <alex_joni> can't fathom why though
[20:59:22] <hoodoo> nobody on here thought it would even run it, so im happy ive got so far
[20:59:45] <alex_joni> who didn't ?
[20:59:53] <alex_joni> we shall line them up and execute them next :P
[21:00:05] <hoodoo> oh, some people the other night, it is an OLD laptop
[21:00:06] <NewType> alex_joni: I posted the ini file and the error at pastebin.ca
[21:00:11] <andypugh> While I am here, can I say how jolly grateful I am to whoever wrote the debounce hal thingy?
[21:00:17] <NewType> I am not sure if I am doing right...
[21:00:23] <alex_joni> NewType: when you do that, you get a link which you're supposed to tell us :D
[21:00:48] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/1415701 <- that one
[21:00:56] <NewType> ohhh... -> http://pastebin.ca/1415701
[21:01:01] <NewType> oh oh oh!
[21:01:43] <hoodoo> what cad software do you all use btw? IS variCAD good?
[21:01:44] <andypugh> Ah, that upgrade looks like an easier way to do it, though I will need to bring the computer to the network.
[21:01:58] <alex_joni> NewType: 2.2.4 is pretty ancient
[21:02:16] <alex_joni> there might be some issues that have been fixed by 2.2.5 - 2.2.8
[21:02:17] <NewType> yeah, I didn't get a chance to upgrade yet. :p It is running on a Dual PIII machine.
[21:02:23] <andypugh> hoodo: I use Autodesk Inventor. It's lovely in much the same way that AutoCAD is hideous.
[21:02:28] <alex_joni> upgrading to either one shouldn't cause any problems
[21:02:41] <alex_joni> I would pick 2.2.8 if you have something that works
[21:02:50] <alex_joni> or 2.3.0 if you're just starting setting it up now
[21:02:53] <andypugh> I desperately want 28.1
[21:02:56] <NewType> alex_joni, OK. I'll go do that. Give me a day to try. :)
[21:03:01] <hoodoo> andy: thats good, does it run natievly on linux?
[21:03:02] <andypugh> So need the 2.3 upgrade
[21:03:03] <alex_joni> NewType: should be 10 minutes
[21:03:19] <NewType> alex_joni: don't I need to redo the entire installation?
[21:03:23] <alex_joni> andypugh: the alternative is to download those packages, and install them by hand
[21:03:25] <alex_joni> NewType: nope
[21:03:28] <andypugh> No, Inventor is Windows only, and also rather expensive.
[21:03:32] <NewType> ok, update it is.
[21:03:33] <alex_joni> what is it with people and reinstalling the OS?
[21:03:41] <alex_joni> NewType: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.3
[21:03:43] <hoodoo> ah, VariCAd is meant to be £445
[21:03:53] <hoodoo> no way can i afford that...
[21:04:13] <andypugh> I think inventor is £3000 or more
[21:04:24] <alex_joni> here's a list of CAM programs : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[21:04:38] <andypugh> But it appears I can use the work licence at home :-)
[21:04:46] <NewType> I am using AutoDesk, and VIZ + CNC toolkit right now.
[21:04:51] <alex_joni> one of the most promising (although currently before alpha) is HeeksCNC
[21:04:58] <anonimasu> im not sure 3000£ buys you much useful stuff for inventor
[21:05:10] <anonimasu> I think that's the minimal version
[21:05:17] <hoodoo> wow...
[21:05:25] <hoodoo> i just got a keygen
[21:05:31] <anonimasu> hey, dont mention that here.
[21:05:36] <andypugh> It is quite nice. I used it full-time for a couple of years.
[21:05:39] <alex_joni> this channel is logged
[21:05:44] <archivist> heekscad is free and moving in the right direction
[21:05:44] <alex_joni> * alex_joni points at the topic
[21:05:45] <hoodoo> ok... PIRATE, **cough**
[21:06:01] <hoodoo> i ahve used freenet before
[21:06:07] <anonimasu> we dont really care, but for your own sake, dont :)
[21:06:14] <hoodoo> ok, sure
[21:06:31] <anonimasu> I draw the line when you start making money off programs :)
[21:06:36] <hoodoo> does anyone in here build drivers and machines?
[21:06:37] <andypugh> Does Heekscad do 3D? parametric? Kinematics?
[21:07:15] <hoodoo> or have experience with a ULN2003 IC?
[21:07:23] <alex_joni> andypugh: http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/
[21:07:31] <archivist> 3d yes parametric, somone looking at doing it
[21:08:07] <crice> HeeksCad is not cross Platform is it? I use QCAD, Cheap, 2D, but does what I need.
[21:08:24] <archivist> it is cross platform
[21:08:29] <alex_joni> crice: it only works on doze, osx and *nix
[21:08:33] <alex_joni> :P
[21:08:40] <alex_joni> but it's best discussed in #cam
[21:08:42] <andypugh> I wonder if you can do useful CAD with Maya? That is a 3D modelling package that they make films with (ie Shrek) and is a free download for non-commercial use
[21:08:54] <alex_joni> andypugh: not useful CAD
[21:09:01] <alex_joni> same reason why you can't do it in Blender
[21:09:11] <JymmmEMC> can't use inkscape either
[21:09:14] <alex_joni> 3D modelling is something else entirely
[21:09:23] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: well you can for artistic engraving
[21:09:42] <alex_joni> but I doubt you want artistic impressions of certain parts milled out :D
[21:09:44] <hoodoo> heeks looks OK actually
[21:09:44] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Nope, has had FP issues for years
[21:09:58] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: They are not willing to fix them either
[21:10:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni shrugs
[21:10:13] <andypugh> Aye, that was my thought to be honest. I tried Cobalt/Graphite/ whatever it is called and found it too imprecise.
[21:10:14] <alex_joni> never used it, but some people reported success with it
[21:10:29] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: They never verified the results either =)
[21:10:38] <alex_joni> andypugh: the most complete free-ish CAD/CAM I know of is Alibre Xpress
[21:10:46] <alex_joni> only runs on doze though, but free to download
[21:11:00] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: artistic-ish
[21:11:02] <alex_joni> :P
[21:11:30] <andypugh> Not free is it? They keep spamming me with "Only £1500 this month" offes
[21:11:36] <hoodoo> we have gallad mill at school
[21:11:43] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Not that either... If you wanted x=2, you can get x=1.9857636 instead
[21:11:46] <alex_joni> andypugh: the full version is ~2000$
[21:11:48] <anonimasu> it is unless you need more parts
[21:11:55] <alex_joni> Xpress is free with some limitations
[21:12:04] <alex_joni> both CAD and CAM
[21:12:07] <andypugh> And as you say, Alibre is not very good for "I want a workplane 35.2mm from that edge"
[21:12:26] <anonimasu> hm.. that works
[21:12:35] <anonimasu> just make a 3d sketch and constrain the endpoint at your edge
[21:12:40] <anonimasu> then create a offset plane
[21:13:12] <anonimasu> easy enough :)
[21:13:25] <alex_joni> weell.. it used to be
[21:13:34] <andypugh> Ah, wait, I am getting confused.
[21:14:10] <alex_joni> anonimasu: hmm.. I don't see Xpress on their site anymore
[21:14:13] <andypugh> Alibre was the one I got hacked off with when it didn't join line segments into a loop in a way I could figure out.
[21:14:27] <anonimasu> hm
[21:15:04] <NewType> NewType is now known as NewType_away
[21:15:04] <anonimasu> alex_joni: under downloads if you register yourself I think
[21:15:15] <alex_joni> well.. I am registered ;)
[21:15:22] <alex_joni> but I get the Expert version for download :P
[21:15:25] <anonimasu> haha, yeah but wrong kind of account :)
[21:15:28] <andypugh> (Bear in mind that this was while working full-time as a 3D CAD designer with Inventor, I may have been set in my ways)
[21:15:44] <alex_joni> andypugh: it's very close to SolidWorks
[21:16:03] <andypugh> Alibre or Inventor?
[21:16:06] <alex_joni> Alibre
[21:16:21] <andypugh> And where is Inventor in this spectrum>
[21:16:33] <anonimasu> it's not on the map, beucase it's too expensive
[21:16:34] <alex_joni> similar, but I haven't used it enough to comment
[21:16:51] <anonimasu> I didnt use inventor much, but solidworks for a long time
[21:16:54] <andypugh> You think Inventor is more expensive than Solifowrks?
[21:17:08] <archivist> when I tried inventor it was way behind solidworks
[21:17:17] <anonimasu> they are about the same in price
[21:17:25] <hoodoo> is anyoen goning to try out heeks
[21:17:29] <anonimasu> the support contract was a real killer though
[21:17:36] <anonimasu> like 1100eur a year
[21:17:46] <JymmmEMC> Real Men can "draw" in DXF using a text editor a-la "The Matrix" style!!!
[21:17:49] <andypugh> I think I will, it seems to go straight to G-code :-)
[21:18:16] <geo01005> heekscad is getting better. I'm working on a constraints solver for the sketcher.
[21:18:20] <andypugh> I have a friend who does all his graphics in native Postscript.
[21:18:25] <anonimasu> :]
[21:18:38] <micges> good night all
[21:18:47] <JymmmEMC> andypugh: Do you know which level PS ?
[21:19:03] <andypugh> No, this was some time ago.
[21:19:19] <andypugh> In fact, I say "Friend" but haven't seen or heard of him for aeons.
[21:19:30] <JymmmEMC> andypugh: Ah, I needed some pointers
[21:20:07] <JymmmEMC> Personally, I think Ps is an AWESOME language
[21:20:13] <JymmmEMC> err PS
[21:20:17] <alex_joni> I had a friend who used a marker to draw a PCB when I told him what I needed
[21:20:24] <alex_joni> he did 8 boards by hand
[21:20:30] <alex_joni> without drawing the schematics :P
[21:20:31] <archivist> I bought the PS books eons ago
[21:21:02] <alex_joni> black marker on the copper boards, then etched them and presto ..
[21:21:29] <andypugh> Well, if you want to ask for advice, he is a friendly chap, and a geek. (and a muonium chemist) http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~eesridr/
[21:21:47] <JymmmEMC> a what chemist?
[21:22:27] <andypugh> Odd you should say that, I made a PWM to Analogue voltage + relay forwards/backwards board in much the same style last week. But I cheated and used a flatbed plotter for the artwork.
[21:22:56] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon
[21:23:04] <JymmmEMC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muonium
[21:23:30] <archivist> by the way for UKeans its the Harrogate model engineer show fri sat sun
[21:23:32] <alex_joni> andypugh: this was a long time ago, I did have little grasp of designing PCBs back then, but it impressed me quite a bit
[21:24:21] <alex_joni> anonimasu: I don't think CAD/CAM Xpress is available anymore.. too bad
[21:24:28] <hoodoo> just compiling heeks now
[21:24:43] <alex_joni> hoodoo: check their wiki for dependencies
[21:24:49] <anonimasu> I think cad is
[21:25:02] <hoodoo> its all sorted, all compiling for ubuntu
[21:25:28] <alex_joni> ah it is
[21:26:03] <andypugh> Incidentally, the same flatbed plotter has been used for a stereolith project. I wrote some Octave (Matlab) code to slice .stl files and cut them out of sticky paper with a vinyl cutting knife. Assembly was tedious. The paper shapes were then used as patterns for brass casting.
[21:26:09] <alex_joni> "When you register for a trial of Alibre Design, you get access to Alibre Design Professional for the first 30 days. After 30 days your trial converts to Alibre Design Xpress, which has no time limit."
[21:26:29] <JymmmEMC> list of things near bottom of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoCAD_DXF
[21:27:37] <andypugh> I confess I didn't really like Alibre, but that might have been because it didn't suit the project I wanted it for. Perhaps I should look again. But I am coming round to the Open viewpoint.
[21:28:37] <andypugh> <ponder> Is it worth me documenting the paper-stereo-lithography thing on a web page with the source code (.stl to .hpgl)?
[21:29:08] <alex_joni> andypugh: it's always worth to share something :)
[21:29:20] <alex_joni> that's why god invented the blog
[21:29:21] <hoodoo> ok, Heeks is up and running
[21:30:03] <andypugh> It isn't like it is original, there were commercial versions. And there are lots of less tedious 3D printing homebrews out there now.
[21:30:39] <andypugh> Ah, I am a bit of a fossil. I think IRC is a bit johnny-come-lately and only ever use it here.
[21:31:37] <archivist> plenty of fossils on here :)
[21:31:59] <hoodoo> it looks ok, probobly good for what i need, thanks whoever posted that
[21:32:03] <hoodoo> imm of now
[21:32:14] <hoodoo> last day of school tomorrow... YAY
[21:32:16] <hoodoo> bye all
[21:34:04] <andypugh> Would it be terribly gauche to publish the url of the youtube video of the first fully CNC cuts made by my project?
[21:34:20] <anonimasu> no
[21:34:27] <anonimasu> the more the better
[21:34:37] <JymmmEMC> andypugh: any blood or body parts involved?
[21:34:45] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95B8PDlnajk
[21:34:47] <archivist> a lot do even my crap gets around
[21:35:01] <JymmmEMC> andypugh: any blood or body parts involved?
[21:35:17] <andypugh> Body parts, I couldn't stay out of shot. No blood
[21:35:37] <anonimasu> andypugh: nice :)
[21:35:48] <JymmmEMC> andypugh: no,no, I mean as in squirting or severed
[21:36:04] <archivist> * archivist approves of the stuph under the lathe/mill :)
[21:36:44] <JymmmEMC> archivist: your gf/wife must love you =)
[21:36:58] <andypugh> It is, in a fun way, making it's own spindle speed controller.
[21:37:03] <archivist> I old free and single
[21:37:21] <andypugh> You will be unsurprised to find that I am single. An old.
[21:37:39] <andypugh> Ah, sorry, you meant Archivist.
[21:37:42] <JymmmEMC> Age is just an attitude
[21:38:30] <andypugh> Actually, I might be young here. I feel old when I am helping university students with their 1916 fire engine.
[21:39:02] <JymmmEMC> andypugh: But, can you drink them under the table is the question
[21:39:57] <andypugh> Probably, they seem distressingly obsessed with work nowadays.
[21:40:26] <JymmmEMC> Many moons ago I had a friend that tried to match me on shots of Tequilia once, and ONLY once.
[21:41:24] <andypugh> archivist: thanks. I thought about pretending but I guess I am not alone in keeping stuff only just tidy enough to work.
[21:41:55] <andypugh> Anyway, back to topic. G76
[21:42:07] <archivist> when you see my pics there is plenty of useful stuph around
[21:42:43] <andypugh> I tried the G76 demo and it nearly worked. It did the normal cuts, got to the g76 line and waited indefinitely.
[21:43:27] <alex_joni> g76 - rigid tapping ?
[21:43:44] <andypugh> I assume that one of the channels is not wired. Can you get a system that supports G76 using Stepfonf? If so, what inputs are needed?
[21:43:59] <alex_joni> you need an encoder for that
[21:44:23] <andypugh> G76 is lathe threading I thought. If not, then edit back to whatever lathe threading is.
[21:44:47] <archivist> still need a spindle encoder
[21:44:59] <andypugh> I have a 1PPR and a 20PPR
[21:44:59] <alex_joni> G33 I think
[21:46:25] <alex_joni> and G76 - that's a threading cycle
[21:47:04] <alex_joni> the 20 ppr should be good
[21:47:09] <andypugh> Indeed, I jjst fired up the VMware EMC2 and checked.
[21:47:20] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Rigid_Tapping <- that might help you some
[21:47:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[21:47:26] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:47:45] <andypugh> So, I have Spindle_Index wired to the 1PPR and Spindle_Phase_A to the 20ppr
[21:48:48] <andypugh> Err, I am confused now. Is G76 lathe threading or Rigid Tapping?
[21:51:06] <archivist> lathe threading
[21:51:22] <andypugh> Good, that is what I was trying to do,
[21:52:21] <archivist> I was reading my printed manual, as mine is mill only not used it
[21:52:25] <andypugh> So, do you know what input signals it needs to synch and cut? The documentation seems sparse, and I am wondering if I need to add the position interpolator to make it work.
[21:52:57] <andypugh> I guess that the requirements will be exactly the same as rigid tapping.
[21:53:45] <archivist> slightly different as it does not reverse out the same as tapping
[21:54:22] <andypugh> I can make a finer-resolution encoder, it is a bit of printed paper wrapped round the spindle and a pair if reflective sensors.
[21:55:12] <andypugh> No, but presumably it needs the same inputs? Rigid tapping needs spindle direction control in addition, of course.
[21:57:02] <andypugh> Hmm, complete change of tack. in G-code if you wanted to set a parameter to be equal to the current X position, how would you do it?
[21:57:46] <NewType_away> YES!!! 2.3 works! B and C shows up!
[21:57:55] <NewType_away> NewType_away is now known as NewType
[21:58:57] <andypugh> I am suffering from axis-count envy
[21:59:37] <archivist> I only have 4 working
[21:59:58] <andypugh> Oooh! hark at him! "Only 4" he says!
[22:00:17] <andypugh> :-)
[22:00:33] <archivist> its a real pain not having 5 for some jobs
[22:00:51] <NewType> crap! I got the a joint 5 following error
[22:00:54] <andypugh> I had 2 for ages
[22:02:48] <andypugh> As in 2CNC + 1 manual. Though I did do some work with 2 manual...
[22:03:34] <NewType> it trips itself off. :(
[22:04:57] <andypugh> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63621&page=2 has a photo of my 2-axis milling. Probably worth a look as the ballscrew cover is incredibly clever. (I stole it from Smart and Brown)
[22:05:40] <andypugh> Folowing error means you are clsed loop? Are you closed-loop on that axis?
[22:05:53] <NewType> I am doing open loop stepper
[22:08:26] <andypugh> Then the following error has to be spurious.
[22:08:50] <NewType> yep. I know. that's werid. I have no feedback from the machine to the computer
[22:09:10] <archivist> you can get it by incorrect settings
[22:09:47] <andypugh> Indeed, that is what I was trying to say. The machine would need to know that it is an open-loop axis
[22:10:23] <archivist> eg setting a rate that the steppers cannot accelerate at
[22:10:25] <andypugh> Not that I know much about CAM.
[22:11:21] <andypugh> This is running EMC?
[22:11:58] <NewType> need to go...
[22:12:04] <NewType> NewType is now known as NewType_away
[22:15:48] <andypugh> Who else is awake here? I might move on myself.
[22:15:58] <NewType_away> NewType_away is now known as NewType
[22:16:02] <NewType> still here thinking...
[22:16:12] <andypugh> So, you are running EMC?
[22:16:16] <NewType> I can control only 4 of the 5 stepper motor...
[22:16:18] <NewType> yep
[22:16:24] <NewType> 2.3. just upgraded
[22:16:51] <andypugh> Might be a bug, how many 5 axis machines are running 2.3 right now?
[22:17:00] <NewType> AXIS is bring up XYZ and BC.
[22:17:13] <NewType> you mean in the demo/sim?
[22:17:28] <NewType> not sure if there are real world examples out there.
[22:17:34] <andypugh> You might well be the only one, so bug is possible.
[22:17:53] <NewType> humm.... :(
[22:18:25] <andypugh> Bear in mind I know next to nothing about EMC or CAM
[22:18:29] <NewType> I just swap the pin out and I can control B instead of C, so at least the physical wire is good.
[22:18:36] <NewType> I see I see.
[22:19:14] <archivist> testing is done at higher axis counts
[22:19:29] <NewType> physically??
[22:19:35] <archivist> sure
[22:20:06] <andypugh> I am just thinking out loud. I do do embedded software for a living (I work on engine ECUs for the major motor manufacturer that isn't going bust)
[22:20:24] <NewType> I know for sure the physical wires are good because I can swap any of the 2.
[22:20:33] <NewType> I mean swap B with C
[22:20:57] <andypugh> Do the Hal blocks look the same?
[22:21:44] <NewType> so the *.hal file is good.
[22:22:08] <andypugh> Did you write it, or stepconf?
[22:22:18] <NewType> I modified from stepconf
[22:22:33] <NewType> I use it to generate a file with 2 A axis, and I went in and modified the name.
[22:22:44] <NewType> then I learn to change AXES = 5 to 6.
[22:22:52] <NewType> and updated to 2.3 and it is now loading! :)
[22:23:04] <NewType> but I can only use 4 of the 5 steppers right now.
[22:23:59] <andypugh> My first guess would be that you missed changing an index or axis name somewhere in one of the edited blocks.
[22:24:52] <NewType> good point.
[22:24:57] <andypugh> (I stress, this is a guess based on doing a certain amount of non-specific coding)
[22:26:17] <archivist> I would have an A as well in the ini
[22:28:14] <NewType> I have B and C in the INI. I basically copied A and repplicated it. and also changed AXIS_3 and _4
[22:28:58] <NewType> how does AXIS know to rotate A in the graphical interface?
[22:28:58] <archivist> yes there was/is a restriction about gaps
[22:30:30] <archivist> in the axes so you may need an A in the ini, display of the axis and rotation is a new part of the docs I have not read up on yet
[22:30:32] <NewType> because in the 9axis sim, it also only rotate A.
[22:30:48] <NewType> ohhhhhh.
[22:30:50] <NewType> let me try
[22:33:09] <andypugh> so, not wanting to be a bother, any ideas how to read the current X,Y,Z into variables to work with later?
[22:39:03] <archivist> NewType, see integrators manual pdf and look for GEOMETRY = XYZABCUVW in the display section
[22:40:20] <archivist> you 'may' /me guessing want GEOMETRY = XYZBC
[22:42:57] <NewType> ** I am busy at this very minute... my response will be slow...
[22:43:14] <archivist> Im about to burger off home
[22:43:53] <archivist> I came back to work to get tomorrows map of where to go
[22:46:35] <andypugh> And I should be in bed.
[22:47:06] <andypugh> I don't come here often, but you are a good bunch of chaps.
[22:50:35] <NewType> OK, all 6 shows up, and all 5 steppers move!
[22:50:42] <NewType> so that worked!