#emc | Logs for 2009-05-05

[00:04:45] <skunkworks> je
[00:04:48] <skunkworks> heh
[00:04:57] <skunkworks> jepler: vee bits rule.
[00:05:59] <skunkworks> really hard to get .007" isolations with a normal mill
[00:14:03] <jepler> skunkworks: I haven't seen your boards besides the servo amp, and I didn't think you used anywhere near .007 isolation..
[00:14:33] <skunkworks> nope - but the I could if I needed.. :)
[00:14:54] <skunkworks> ok - more like .010 with my equipment.
[00:14:58] <skunkworks> ok .010
[00:15:04] <skunkworks> no - .011
[00:15:12] <skunkworks> ;)
[00:16:53] <eric_unterhausen> where is the pic of that equipment?
[00:17:38] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, good news from the front.... no smoke
[00:17:58] <skunkworks> Great!
[00:19:02] <LawrenceG> got to use all kinds of test gear.... pulse generator, 2 scopes, freq counter, multimeter
[00:19:16] <JymmmEMC> eric_unterhausen: Bring it to the fest, they should help ya
[00:19:46] <eric_unterhausen> seeing as how my mill weighs 5500 pounds, I don't think that's going to happen
[00:20:35] <LawrenceG> 3 power supplies
[00:20:52] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCgantry.JPG making http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/top.JPG
[00:21:51] <eric_unterhausen> I forgot how monstrous that thing was -- world's largest pcb mill
[00:26:29] <skunkworks> 3 power supplies?
[00:26:54] <eric_unterhausen> I have 5, 15 and 170v on mine
[00:27:38] <skunkworks> well - all my logic is 12v. neener neener neener.
[00:28:07] <JymmmEMC> so, you can't use industry standard 24V components
[00:28:59] <LawrenceG> 5v logic, 12volt for gate drivers, 20 some volts for motor power
[00:30:01] <eric_unterhausen> I needed 15 for gate drives, I'm thinking of redesigning with switching low voltage supplies so I can just derive them from the bus voltages
[00:30:33] <LawrenceG> I just tied 3 fets to fixed levels(2 off, one on) and pwm the final upper one
[00:31:19] <LawrenceG> now I need to get the dspic driver running the power stage
[00:46:06] <skunkworks> JymmmEMC: yes I can - The board has a 12v regulator on it.
[00:46:39] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: no you can't - lies all lies!
[00:46:52] <skunkworks> ;)
[01:39:06] <Goslowjimbo> Updated to EMC2.3 over the weekend. Tried to run my mill this evening. I found the change in pin definitions for the Mesa 7i43 easily enough. But I am confused about another error I am getting.
[01:40:19] <Goslowjimbo> I posted my HAL file at http://pastebin.com/m17edcccc. The highlited line gives an error of "net" is not a pin.
[01:41:10] <Goslowjimbo> If I comment out this line, EMC starts up, and the signal isn
[01:41:34] <Goslowjimbo> 't there, but the pins are.
[01:44:51] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, could you paste the error(s) from the terminal also?
[01:44:58] <SWPadnos> and maybe dmesg
[01:45:41] <Goslowjimbo> It'll have to be tomorrow. The mill is a couple miles away.
[01:45:49] <SWPadnos> ssh, man! :)
[01:48:19] <Goslowjimbo> What is the difference between error from the terminal and dmesg? I thought when you get an error on startup, it just comes up on dmesg.
[01:49:26] <SWPadnos> not necessarily
[01:49:38] <SWPadnos> dmesg is where system (kernel) messages go
[01:49:53] <SWPadnos> so the userspace program halcmd won't send errors there
[01:50:19] <SWPadnos> and an error like "you can't do that with a net" is a halcmd error - it's telling you it can't figure out how to process your command
[01:50:55] <SWPadnos> in some cases you'll get some information on the terminal and more information in dmesg, such as when a kernel module fails
[01:51:31] <Goslowjimbo> So I need terminal running before I start emc?
[01:51:35] <SWPadnos> yes
[01:52:43] <SWPadnos> isn't that how you saw the net error in the first place?
[01:54:23] <Goslowjimbo> No, I searched down in (what I think is ) dmesg for the error at the last of the message. I start EMC with a click on an icon.
[01:54:35] <SWPadnos> ah, ok.
[01:54:59] <SWPadnos> there is some information that's printed to the terminal, which doesn't go to dmesg
[01:55:32] <Goslowjimbo> I'll be sure and have it running tomorrow.
[01:57:53] <Goslowjimbo> Time to turn in. Thanks for your time, SWPadnos.
[01:57:58] <Goslowjimbo> Goodbye
[01:57:58] <SWPadnos> are you sure you typed in the error correctly?
[01:58:02] <SWPadnos> ok, see you
[02:12:09] <eric_unterhausen> downloading the newest liveCD, going to get the mill to work or smash the rest of my fingers
[02:12:20] <eric_unterhausen> or both, who knows?
[02:20:07] <roh> i used a regular clean hardy install, added the repos and installed that, updated to 2.3 at once and it works so far
[02:44:51] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[02:46:28] <steve_stallings> OK, I did it, booked a flight on AirTrans to come to the fest. Someone please tell me I will not regret it, AirTrans that is...
[02:47:13] <roh> i wish there would be one on the other side of the pond
[02:49:24] <steve_stallings> So how far would you be willing to travel? Half way across the EU? I have the general impression that distance inhibits Europeans more than us in the states.
[02:50:15] <steve_stallings> My trip will be over 1200 miles one way. Fly our, drive back with Matt.
[02:50:29] <steve_stallings> our > out
[02:52:00] <toastydeath> so question fro the group:
[02:52:15] <toastydeath> I have to take a humanities elective, and microeconomics is an option
[02:52:28] <toastydeath> passed calc, liked calc
[02:52:50] <toastydeath> is microeconomics going to be easy based on that, or does it usually require a ton of memorizing things
[02:52:56] <toastydeath> (something i am terrible at)
[02:55:16] <steve_stallings> Not a lot of heavy math involved, more like a science class where you learn rules and how to apply them.
[02:55:23] <toastydeath> cool
[02:58:49] <toastydeath> i'm just skeptical about the class because everyone whines about it
[03:02:45] <steve_stallings> Statistics is something to whine about. Lots of math that just doesn't feel right.
[03:06:43] <toastydeath> hahah
[03:07:57] <cradek> steve_stallings: neat, it will be good to see you and matt there.
[03:10:16] <steve_stallings> This year I may actually settle down and try to learn something. Looks like there will be fewer distractions. Sure hope I can get the laptop to work as a development system.
[03:10:56] <cradek> yeah, hope you have some time. you will probably not be stuck doing sales.
[03:11:38] <steve_stallings> Not that I actually did much sales work, mostly wandering around talking to folks and looking at goodies.
[03:12:35] <cradek> even if you do not have rtai controlling hardware, you could use your machine to learn emc/hal using a simulator build. it will work on any system/kernel.
[03:14:06] <steve_stallings> True, and even huge latency hits would not prevent me from playing with HAL stuff, just accept the fact that valid test intervals are only 64 seconds long. 8-)
[03:14:52] <steve_stallings> Will there be a stepper based machine there? I am wondering if I should truck mine up to Matt so he can drive out with it.
[03:20:54] <cradek> I thought matt was planning to have a mumble big stepper machine with mesa step gen
[03:23:02] <steve_stallings> The machines that Matt is working with are far to big to stick in a stationwagon. He might be planning on just bringing computers and MESA stuff.
[03:25:47] <cradek> I think jeff was thinking about bringing his small machine. I don't know if he decided yet
[03:26:38] <cradek> a little 3 axis machine doesn't get you much that the simulator doesn't - pretty easy to visualize it.
[03:28:09] <steve_stallings> OK, thanks. I would love to get all the limit switches installed and get Matt to bring my machine, but there just isn't time since he leaves 11 May for Smithy and then continues to Fest.
[03:29:13] <cradek> there will be a machine shop... you could install the switches there.
[03:30:09] <steve_stallings> 8-) ... like Stuart needs me breaking his machines! Besides, my time should be spent learning software stuff.
[03:32:40] <cradek> a small challenge and nice learning exercise would be for you to set up virtual limit switches in the simulator, and home to them etc.
[03:33:33] <steve_stallings> I still have one unsold PMDX-112 board like Ray used for classes at the last Fest.
[03:33:40] <cradek> cool.
[03:42:06] <roh> steve_stallings depends on the transport. flights within europe are relatively cheap and fast. so any major city would do
[03:42:24] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Eh, there's "something" about just watching the machine do it's thing that on-screen just can't compete with =)
[03:43:10] <cradek> yeah setting up limits and homing on a real machine would be a good exercise. (but nowadays it's just plugging values into stepconf - you can do it without learning a bit of hal)
[03:43:32] <JymmmEMC> what about a probe (if you need a demo)
[03:43:38] <cradek> setting up some simulation is more of a learning exercise in HAL - depends what you want to do.
[03:43:54] <cradek> a probe is a good idea.
[03:45:00] <JymmmEMC> *maybe* use halscope to "view" the motors/drivers performance?
[03:46:07] <JymmmEMC> OH I know... show the real timing vs what MAch shows =)
[03:46:09] <cradek> JymmmEMC: setting up a servo axis and tuning it would be a great exercise
[03:46:42] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Too bad I don't have any servos =)
[03:47:09] <JymmmEMC> Though, I do have steppers with us logic encoders =)
[03:47:54] <cradek> you could set up stepgen velocity mode plus pid and read the encoders on the parport. it would be the crappiest servo-like system ever!
[03:48:48] <JymmmEMC> ROTF... no,no, they arenot being used (on mine) but they are on the steppers that were pulled from automation machenry using the parker drives
[03:52:47] <tomp> tomp is now known as tomp3
[03:54:55] <steve_stallings> dang, were was it that Stuart mentioned the names of hotels? did many of the crew make a choice yet?
[03:55:08] <cradek> on emc-users
[03:56:24] <cradek> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/14041
[03:57:42] <steve_stallings> ah, I was searching for hotel not motel!!
[03:58:17] <cradek> I don't know who have chosen already and where
[03:58:39] <tomp3> anyone use brand name servos and amps? like yaskawa/panasonic/baldor etc
[03:59:34] <cradek> we won't all be at one place, that's a "known known" as rumsfeld would say.
[04:01:49] <steve_stallings> dang, for some reason that email was not in my archives, thanks for the link cradek
[04:02:12] <cradek> sure
[04:02:17] <steve_stallings> Matt wants cheap, so it is likely we will be at that Western Holiday
[04:03:20] <tomp3> i just checked into an extended stay america in mason ohio, got 29.99 & the place is real nice, tv, stove top, micro, coffe machine, dishes pots pans
[04:04:00] <tomp3> whats dates of fest?
[04:04:54] <tomp3> Thursday May 21 through Wednesday May 27, 2009
[04:06:54] <tomp3> ew, 65$ /nite but consider a bigger suite and split it... maybe 45/50$ a head
[04:11:26] <tomp3> state park Cheney has 55$/nite cabins ( no inet ) for small groups... rate is up on weekend to 75$, still i see bunkbed>s< in photos
[04:12:25] <JymmmEMC> Motel6 $41
[04:12:30] <tomp3> heh GPS: N37º 43.385 W097.49.855
[04:13:01] <JymmmEMC> 2 person $48
[04:13:09] <tomp3> for 2 is good
[04:13:28] <cradek> I'd go with stuart's recommendations. they are cheaper and he went and LOOKED at them.
[04:13:37] <JymmmEMC> what's that?
[04:13:45] <cradek> see link above
[04:14:36] <tomp3> "first choice" ?
[04:16:06] <JymmmEMC> Oh come on.... you guys can all just sleep on a the shop floor and pretend it's a campout and sing songs around the camp fire
[04:16:32] <cradek> I'll bring my guitar
[04:16:40] <tomp3> thats the way at cardinal eng
[04:16:51] <JymmmEMC> Camp fire, blowtorch... it's all the same thing.
[04:17:39] <tomp3> take it from one who's slept on a surface plate.... sleep outside on the ground ;)
[04:17:48] <toastydeath> hahahahahahah
[04:18:14] <cradek> yeah that would not be my first choice...
[04:18:30] <JymmmEMC> tomp3: It's called hit it with a torch first keep warm all night long, and an inflatable mattress
[04:19:16] <JymmmEMC> esp if it's +8" thick =)
[04:19:53] <JymmmEMC> tomp3: and where in the hell was a body sized surface plate?
[04:20:01] <tomp3> i think the 30/33$ suggestions are the good deals ( hell that plate was 8'x 12', iguess it was at least 12" thx )
[04:20:11] <tomp3> huh? any shop that rebuilds presses
[04:20:17] <JymmmEMC> ah
[04:20:37] <toastydeath> most machine shops have at least one big plate
[04:20:44] <JymmmEMC> tomp3: I'm not a machinest, I just play one on TV
[04:20:54] <toastydeath> it makes checking even smaller stuff so much easier
[04:21:03] <JymmmEMC> toastydeath: sure, but didn't know most were body sized
[04:21:07] <toastydeath> oh
[04:21:34] <cradek> surface plate has to be bigger than the biggest flat thing you ever want to make!
[04:21:39] <JymmmEMC> 8x12, that's bigger than most bathrooms, and some bedrooms =)
[04:21:52] <cradek> ideally it's bigger than stuff like the tables on all your machines, too
[04:22:28] <cradek> (sometimes wish mine was twice as big)
[04:22:35] <JymmmEMC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Fest_2009
[04:28:00] <tomp3> i hope theres some mandatory shop safety class before entering. 'got safety glasses? side panels? z59 rating? got all your fingers? wanna keep 'em? '
[04:29:48] <tomp3> gnite
[04:36:12] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[04:45:56] <Bridgeport_II> Hi my name is John and I am from Minnesota, I have been watching this chat for some time now and am strongly thinking about going to the fest. I would like some advice and help with my Bridgeport retrofit. Would it be ok to bring some of my hardware and computer to work on and who would be willing to give me a hand? I have lots of questions.
[07:32:15] <payst> Hello ..=] ... I'm checking out the live CD EMC2and i have the FET3 from stepperworld ..i have the configuration selector on my screen , does anyone know what choice is to be made here ?
[07:34:46] <archivist> look in the docs for the connection info
[07:36:47] <archivist> online docs seem lacking
[07:37:35] <payst> i'm reading thru the configs right now .. seems like i'll be able to config it no matter what setting i choose
[07:38:55] <payst> i googled emc and fet3 before i came on here
[07:39:43] <archivist> not one Ive heard of till now, once you get it going our wiki could do with updating to include connection info and the setup needed
[07:40:21] <JymmmEMC> Hawt Damn! found a 6cell battery for my IdeaPad S10 for $50!!! AWESOME!
[07:51:30] <payst> thanks
[08:24:05] <micges1> good morning
[08:25:06] <micges1> anyone know if is it planned to add stepgen velocity mode for mesa ?
[08:25:44] <micges1> err for hm2 drivers
[08:48:44] <roh> anybody a clue who did the logo on www.linuxcnc.org ?
[08:50:09] <roh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/templates/linuxcnc-float/images/linuxcnc_logo.png this one
[08:52:12] <roh> searching for a nicer design for planetcnc.hyte.de ...
[08:55:27] <alex_joni> roh: that's a combined effort
[08:55:37] <alex_joni> fenn did the penguin with the drill
[08:55:45] <alex_joni> I put it together in logo form
[08:55:50] <roh> nice one
[08:55:56] <roh> i like the penguin
[08:57:10] <roh> i more a hacker than an artist, thus my design skills are quite low. do you think you could make a nice logo for the planet with that penguin?
[08:57:29] <roh> also the css is up for discussion of course
[08:58:19] <archivist> need to add a software/monitor window for the penguin for the cam its using :)
[08:59:08] <roh> if one thinks that way.. why not give him an plasmacutter instead of the drill
[09:08:34] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:38:10] <tomp> tomp is now known as tomp3
[10:50:18] <MrSunshine> hmm, when trying to stepconf i get broken pipe? :/
[10:50:53] <anonimasu> http://www.io23.net/ul/files/fixture.png
[10:51:12] <MrSunshine> install parport_pc /bin/true shouyld not be commented out in modprobe.d/emc2 right ?
[10:51:19] <MrSunshine> how do i regenerate the initrd ?
[10:56:14] <alex_joni> MrSunshine: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Repair/RepBrkPipes.html
[10:56:34] <MrSunshine> i unloaded all the parport stuff and now it works :)
[10:56:59] <alex_joni> MrSunshine: if you want to use the parport with emc2 (latest TRUNK - from last night) then you want to comment it out, on older versions it needs not to be commented out
[10:57:09] <alex_joni> why do you want to regenerate the initrd?
[10:57:44] <alex_joni> (usually it's something like: mkinitramfs -o /initrd.gz 2.6.24-16-rtai)
[11:11:00] <tomp3> anonimasu: it seems theres lots of duplicate constraints, maybe some can be removed? are full rad needed on both end semicircles? all 4 long parallel edges?
[11:12:56] <MrSunshine> when EMC steps, it does hold the direction pin in the direction it should go right ?
[11:13:09] <MrSunshine> CW = DIR = 0, CCW = DIR = 1 for example, constant? :)
[11:19:10] <MrSunshine> aparently it lets go inbetween...
[11:20:13] <tomp3> do you need a constant level ?
[11:20:51] <tomp3> i dont know the stepper modes but there's timing diagrams avaialble for emc2's different step modes
[11:24:07] <tomp3> what i read ... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepgen and what you see dont seem to jive ( i see constant direction level explained )
[11:24:38] <tomp3> when is 'in between' ?
[11:25:44] <MrSunshine> tomp3, dunno realy, im trying to read the step pulses into an AVR
[11:25:54] <MrSunshine> using interrupt for the steps, then checking if the DIR flag is set or not in the interrupt
[11:25:58] <MrSunshine> but no luck :)
[11:27:11] <archivist> MrSunshine, invert the signal so you work on the other edge
[11:28:31] <tomp3> 'lets go' means float? did you see an 'invalid' signal level?
[11:29:04] <MrSunshine> dont know, cant even trigger an interrupt on the AVR using the pin i have direction on :/
[11:29:51] <archivist> that should be constant trigger on the clock only
[11:30:00] <MrSunshine> ahh now
[11:31:46] <tomp3> hey, the hal ref manual link is broken on main wiki page http://linuxcnc.org/docs/HAL_Documentation.pdf 'sorry cannot be found'
[11:32:24] <MrSunshine> drive microstepping should be 2 if halfstepping ?
[11:33:16] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/HAL_User_Manual.pdf
[11:34:14] <tomp3> BigJohnT: thx, will edit wiki
[11:34:22] <BigJohnT> ok
[11:44:44] <obinou> hello ! I would like to ask something about emc
[11:45:01] <tomp3> argh, so are there 3 documents? [HAL User Manual (PDF)] [Manuel de HAL (French)] [HAL Reference Manual (PDF)] or just 2? [HAL User Manual (PDF)] [Manuel de HAL (French)] then the 3rd (ref manual ) just doesnt exist
[11:45:08] <tomp3> obinou: just ask :)
[11:45:34] <alex_joni> tomp3: it's the same, only name changed
[11:45:46] <tomp3> its not found 404
[11:45:47] <obinou> I'm building a small cnc machine to make pcb (mainly) , and I intend to use TMC222 stepper motors controllers .
[11:46:29] <obinou> they are small chip able to drive up to 800ma/phase stepper motors, and driver by i2c
[11:47:16] <obinou> the control is simple: after initialisation, you just have to set some parameters (like the maximal speed of the stepper motor), then give the position
[11:48:46] <obinou> and the tmc222 travel to it automatically, respecting the max. speed, up-to-speed and slowdown rate you had specified before. By i2c commands you can also get the current position, or other states (like motor blocked, or overheat)
[11:49:48] <obinou> As the motheroard, I would like to use an ARM9 board (Samsung S32440 @ 400MHz) thay I have
[11:50:05] <obinou> it have a VGA port, and a few USB.
[11:50:12] <archivist> obinou, emc does the step control , serial control does not allow for coordinated moves in realtime
[11:50:22] <obinou> that was my question
[11:50:35] <obinou> would it be possible to hook it up ?
[11:51:01] <obinou> I saw 2 method of controlling : step by step, or "servo" (I assume by geared cc motors)
[11:51:16] <obinou> I was thinking on adding a 3rd method
[11:51:59] <obinou> Last thing: I don't relly need speed
[11:52:00] <tomp3> you can use it for blind motion, but it (right now ) wont be an emc axis, just a device, like a valve position or an arm extension
[11:52:51] <obinou> mmmhh ok... that will not be compatible with a direct control from the emc GUIs, I assume
[11:53:08] <tomp3> BigJohnT: i dont understand if the entry should be removed or duplicated, i wont change it.
[11:53:21] <BigJohnT> tomp3: which one?
[11:54:34] <tomp3> BigJohnT: "[HAL Reference Manual (PDF)]" on main wiki.. is 404, and i hear is just a badly named dupe of 1st entry on line above
[11:55:23] <tomp3> obinou: i think you can directly control, but not interpolate ( cant be in position on time )
[11:55:24] <obinou> This way, I though I could leverage a little the need for a real-time OS , since the position control would be done by the TMC222 chips, regulary reporting the position of axis to the emc gui.
[11:55:55] <BigJohnT> yea, the last one is a duplicate so it can be removed
[11:56:11] <BigJohnT> there is only the english and french one
[11:57:21] <obinou> (I'd like that because the arm board is not exactly perfect in the real-time domain). For the "position in time" problem, I wanted to do it by try-and-error with the tmc222 : It can support this kind of thing
[11:57:34] <obinou> that's the type of command you can give it
[11:57:49] <tomp3> BigJohnT: consider it dead ( i edeaded it :)
[11:59:30] <BigJohnT> :)
[11:59:35] <obinou> The purpose of all of this is to make a small autonomous machine, the size of a printer, which in particular does not requiere a PC, and is driven by printer motors. (The TMC222 can do 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 steps)
[11:59:55] <tomp3> obinou, you could make a point to point control with it ( no interpolation , single axis moves ) and need very little realtime (maybe none), then... well you dont need emc :(
[12:00:14] <archivist> obinou, emc does not work that way, use a par port and different chips
[12:01:34] <alex_joni> MrSunshine: possibly using up/down stepping is easier then step/dir, if you're reading it with a micro
[12:05:39] <obinou> archivist: No: I want to use emc ;-) tomp3: I still need emc: Emc is much more than just the stepping control: There is the GUI, the G-Code interpretor, and it's always good to follow standards !
[12:06:21] <obinou> but yes, I will try on the direction you say, tomp3
[12:06:37] <archivist> obinou, then a par port and ordinary stepper chips will be easy
[12:07:39] <tomp3> obinou: its not a suggestion, you loose circle arc and lines that use more than 1 axis!
[12:08:30] <obinou> ok tomp3, I did not think of that
[12:10:09] <obinou> I don't want that, archivist, because I would have to use a PC for that, with a parallel more moreover, which I don't have, plus a stepper motor controller card. I can't have that
[12:10:35] <obinou> for now, everything I did cost me $0
[12:11:06] <obinou> (especially since I got the TMC222 as samples)
[12:11:32] <archivist> obinou, its a requirement for arcs that acceleration of motors etc are controlled at the same time, you cannot do that with TMC222
[12:11:56] <obinou> ok
[12:12:01] <archivist> cheap is not always best or possible
[12:12:26] <obinou> but sometime this is not a choice ;-)
[12:13:39] <obinou> anyway , thank you for the advices
[12:14:33] <archivist> you need to learn how more than one axis is coordinated for a move
[12:16:30] <roh> hm.. anybody ever tried using a beagleboard with emc?
[12:19:09] <obinou> archivist: I think I can do that by providing a new position very often to X and Y axis controllers
[12:19:57] <archivist> obinou, like every step
[12:21:07] <obinou> maybe not every step , but almost
[12:21:18] <obinou> depanding on the required movement
[12:22:10] <obinou> for precise cut, I would do that, and for long, back-to-home travel , juste the long position is enough I'd think
[12:23:33] <archivist> obinou, that would require a rewrite of the motion controller
[12:23:48] <obinou> mmhh .... a big task
[12:23:51] <tomp3> providing the new position very often is called 'trajectory planning'. its quite a big thing to embed. and emc does it for you ... or... you have to write one yourself.
[12:24:12] <tomp3> gotta work.. bye bye & good luck
[12:26:11] <obinou> If I read correctly, G-Code provide axis movements only: Ex, to make a circle, it does that, give X & Y position very close from each other , no ?
[12:31:49] <obinou> thanks anyway for all the info provided !
[13:07:05] <Mark_FAPS> hello, in vismach, is there a way to get the value of a hal-pin into a variable in python or can I only use th hal-pins for HalRotate and HalTranslate?
[13:10:50] <Optic> mooo
[13:12:00] <SWPadnos> Mark_FAPS, there's a HAL module you can import for python (the one vismach uses), so you can just use that to make a hal input pin to get the data into your python program
[13:14:38] <Mark_FAPS> oh, yes, I'll have a look at that, thx
[13:14:46] <SWPadnos> sure
[13:24:53] <Mark_FAPS> I can't seem to work it out, if for example I have the pin "c.newpin("X", hal.HAL_FLOAT, hal.HAL_IN)" and want to get that value, how do I do it? x = c.X doesn't work
[13:26:41] <cradek> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/haltest.py?rev=1.3
[13:27:47] <cradek> there are also some other examples in that directory.
[13:39:34] <Mark_FAPS> I dont know what I'm doing wrong but it just doesn't work, I have to leave now, I'll be back tomorrow, bb
[13:43:16] <SWPadnos> see you
[14:00:51] <Paragon27_> Paragon27_ is now known as Paragon27
[14:37:29] <MRSunshine___> hmm, how precise it microstepping in say allegros chips etc anyways? ... as they have very low resolution dac s?
[14:37:54] <MRSunshine___> ive seen chips with 4 bit dacs ... that only ends up to like 8% accuracy when setting the current to the coils ?
[14:38:03] <archivist> why do you think microstepping is precise
[14:38:12] <MRSunshine___> 6.25
[14:38:27] <MRSunshine___> archivist, i thought it was more precise then current values of 6.25% :)
[14:39:03] <cradek> my understand is that microstepping does not give you much or any more precision in motion, only smoothness.
[14:39:06] <MRSunshine___> as the current table in the allegro devices has step of 1% to like 10%
[14:39:09] <archivist> no, plus winding errors etc
[14:39:20] <cradek> understanding
[14:39:23] <MRSunshine___> so the 1% steps would be canceled out like 5 steps in a row
[14:41:08] <MRSunshine___> so the only step that would be accurate in any maner would be the half steps/full steps even on a micro stepping system ? :)
[14:41:55] <archivist> for what definition of accuracy. note that is not specified for the motor
[14:42:03] <MRSunshine___> yes i know :)
[16:12:03] <jepler> measurement of microstep accuracy: http://www.euclidres.com/apps/stepper_motor/stepper.html
[16:12:59] <jepler> interesting that the greatest error was just outside a full step
[16:13:49] <archivist> damned good page that!
[16:14:15] <jepler> I had seen it before but not bookmarked it -- "measure microstep accuracy" google search turned it up right away
[16:15:47] <jepler> er, I guess the position error is least near full and half steps .. what is the "magnetic error"?
[16:16:06] <jepler> I guess it's the measure of current difference from ideal, and there's little relationship between it and position error
[16:43:22] <JymmmEMC> I found this interesting.... The frequency of the decaying resonance can be used to estimate the holding torque of the motor.
[16:44:17] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, very interesting... http://www.euclidres.com/apps/stepper_motor/holdingTorque.html
[16:47:54] <BJT-Work> BJT-Work is now known as BJT-Gone-Fishing
[17:07:35] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: still no smoke? ;)
[17:08:04] <alex_joni> skunkworks: http://games.yahoo.com/free-games/i-love-traffic
[17:10:07] <skunkworks> alex_joni: that looks adicting
[17:10:23] <jepler> is that the one where you switch the traffic lights?
[17:10:30] <alex_joni> jepler: yeah
[17:10:39] <jepler> I played it up to the level where there are two, and I couldn't discover whether there was a keystroke to switch them
[17:10:43] <alex_joni> skunkworks: only for about 15 minutes, till you finish it
[17:10:56] <alex_joni> jepler: I switched them by mouse
[17:10:58] <jepler> if it's a game of "repeatedly hit tiny targets with the mouse", I don't care to keep playing it
[17:11:22] <alex_joni> except the last level (20), where it's more of a open them all up, then pray nothing crashes
[17:11:31] <jepler> now the real game would allow you to place sensors and then use a classicladder-style GUI to program the switching
[17:11:35] <alex_joni> about 6 lights, and 6 crosses
[17:15:13] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, clear air here
[17:18:48] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC sends smog from LA to LawrenceG
[17:22:10] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, thanks... I wheeze in your general direction
[17:22:41] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: heh
[17:23:13] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Hey I'm just trying to colorize your place a little with a nice brown haze over your skyline
[17:28:46] <jepler> rc
[17:40:28] <JymmmEMC> de
[17:40:33] <JymmmEMC> mouse
[17:40:52] <JymmmEMC> M Oh You S Eeeeeee
[19:03:07] <Hoodoo> hi, can anyone here give me some advice
[19:03:21] <archivist> if we get a question
[19:03:24] <cradek> don't squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle
[19:03:36] <Hoodoo> ok... anyhow..
[19:03:40] <cradek> sorry
[19:03:52] <Hoodoo> is it easily possible to run EMC2 on DSL
[19:04:04] <archivist> DSL?
[19:04:08] <skunkworks> digital subscriber line>?
[19:04:12] <Hoodoo> by dsl, i mean Damn Small Linux
[19:04:13] <cradek> you would need to compile a realtime kernel, the rtai suite, and then EMC2
[19:05:01] <Hoodoo> cradek: realtime kernel?? rtai ??
[19:05:28] <skunkworks> if you have to ask... ;) It is not for the faint of heart.
[19:05:30] <cradek> well let's back up. there are two answers to your question depending on whether you want to control machinery, or just simulate/demo EMC2.
[19:06:44] <Hoodoo> actually control. I am building a CNC cutter, building the driver to run a ULN2003 chip via parrallel port. I ahve an old laptop which i will be using and it wont run ubuntu
[19:07:23] <Hoodoo> therefore, DSL is a good choice, but if EMC2 wont run, whats the next best choice?
[19:07:23] <cradek> ok, then the answer is it's fairly hard. further, laptops are a bad choice for running realtime code. what you really need is a cheap old desktop machine.
[19:07:41] <Hoodoo> i can do that, but i really want to use this old laptop
[19:07:48] <cradek> laptops usually have power saving stuff that interferes with realtime performance.
[19:08:17] <cradek> occasionally you can get lucky and find one that works. if you could boot the linuxcnc cd, you could test it.
[19:08:34] <Hoodoo> but it has too little ram for ubuntu
[19:08:35] <cradek> but if it can't boot that cd, you have a lot working against you.
[19:08:42] <Hoodoo> right, hehe
[19:08:45] <Hoodoo> true
[19:08:49] <jepler> this page details what it takes to build a realtime kernel and rtai: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RtaiSteps and building emc2 itself: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Preparing_other_versions_of_Linux_to_compile_emc2
[19:08:54] <cradek> maybe you could borrow some ram?
[19:09:11] <Hoodoo> hmm,
[19:09:13] <Hoodoo> maybe
[19:09:20] <cradek> what processor and how much ram is in the laptop?
[19:09:22] <Hoodoo> but it would need to be SODIMM
[19:09:41] <Hoodoo> like, under 1GHz and under 150kb of ram
[19:09:50] <Hoodoo> sorry, mb
[19:10:16] <cradek> yeah, you'd have a hard time running any modern distro in 128MB
[19:10:35] <cradek> especially trying to compile stuff
[19:10:45] <Hoodoo> i realise that, i am used to modern distros, but i have puppy on it atm, and DSL would also run happily
[19:10:52] <LawrenceG> breezy was the latest version that I have running on 128mb ubuntu
[19:11:10] <Hoodoo> wow, old
[19:11:12] <cradek> it's possible that if you had a swap partition, the live cd could boot. I think it uses any swap partition it can locate.
[19:11:17] <Hoodoo> but i can avoid ubuntu
[19:11:26] <Hoodoo> really?
[19:11:38] <Hoodoo> i didnt realise liveCD could use swap
[19:11:41] <cradek> I *think* so but I'm not sure.
[19:11:48] <Hoodoo> i have about 10 or 20gb of HDD
[19:11:58] <Hoodoo> ill be sure to check that ine out
[19:12:18] <cradek> even 4GB of hard disk is plenty, but you need RAM
[19:12:58] <jepler> ubuntu "alternate" installer says it works on 64MB RAM. https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/installation-guide/i386/minimum-hardware-reqts.html
[19:12:59] <Hoodoo> yes
[19:13:03] <Hoodoo> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/5828/
[19:13:06] <jepler> I have never done this myself
[19:13:11] <Hoodoo> that is what you mean, i think
[19:13:15] <cradek> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820172112
[19:13:21] <Hoodoo> i have done alternate before
[19:13:29] <cradek> $8.49 for 512MB of RAM
[19:13:55] <cradek> (name brand)
[19:14:01] <Hoodoo> i can upgrade ram, but i really dont want too. I would just pull out another desktop.. i have like 5
[19:14:32] <cradek> the laptop PROBABLY will not work due to realtime problems, no matter what you do. I strongly suggest that you should just use a desktop.
[19:14:37] <jepler> $8.49 will be a lot cheaper than your time building kernel, rtai, emc2 for dsl
[19:14:38] <Hoodoo> i want ot use this laptop as it is small, has parrallel and could be mounted in a protable box with no external screen
[19:15:04] <cradek> I have used P3-1000 machines with great success. They cost almost nothing.
[19:15:06] <Hoodoo> what about alternate install ubuntu
[19:15:12] <Hoodoo> that could work?
[19:15:25] <jepler> I dunno how well or badly any of the available desktops will be after install
[19:15:36] <jepler> but basically you do alternate install then run emc2-install.sh
[19:15:39] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121359
[19:15:49] <Hoodoo> ok
[19:15:50] <jepler> (it's a different cdrom image)
[19:16:12] <Hoodoo> so download buntu alternate 8.04,
[19:16:15] <Hoodoo> install
[19:16:21] <Hoodoo> download EMC2
[19:16:41] <Hoodoo> run emc2-install.sh
[19:16:54] <SWPadnos> once you have the alternate install done, you can follow the wiki instructions as though you had installed 8.04 desktop
[19:16:56] <jepler> running emc2-install.sh is what downloads emc2
[19:17:23] <Hoodoo> aha
[19:17:25] <Hoodoo> oh
[19:17:33] <Hoodoo> the laptop has no network
[19:17:40] <jepler> (it adds the linuxcnc package repository to /etc/apt/sources.list and then runs apt-get install emc2)
[19:18:05] <jepler> * jepler smacks his forehead
[19:18:30] <SWPadnos> note that the install will take a long-sih time, since it will pull in X and gnome (AFAIK)
[19:18:52] <cradek> SWPadnos: no, the alternate install installs the same distribution
[19:18:58] <cradek> it just does it without booting live
[19:19:08] <SWPadnos> oh, I guess I was thinking of server :)
[19:19:14] <cradek> right, that's server
[19:19:18] <jepler> you could use RFC1149 but it'll be very slow
[19:19:19] <Hoodoo> i dont want to buy a new mobo SWPadnos...
[19:19:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:19:26] <SWPadnos> you will soon ;)
[19:19:48] <SWPadnos> wish me luck, I just ordered $4000 worth of computers
[19:19:54] <Hoodoo> wow
[19:19:58] <SWPadnos> (15 boxes based on that motherboard)
[19:20:10] <Hoodoo> hehe
[19:20:28] <Hoodoo> could i just pull the package on this machine,
[19:20:35] <Hoodoo> make a local repo on the laptop
[19:20:42] <Hoodoo> and install from there
[19:20:59] <jepler> we use apt and dpkg, so any documentation you find online about doing "offline" installs of apt repositories will apply to emc2
[19:21:02] <cradek> you would have to manually get all the dependencies
[19:21:08] <SWPadnos> install how, from the puppy/DSL you have now?
[19:21:09] <jepler> you can read the emc2-install.sh to find the URLs for our package repositories
[19:21:25] <Hoodoo> yes
[19:21:36] <Hoodoo> it would be easy to get dependencies
[19:21:59] <Hoodoo> then dpkg -i it
[19:22:04] <SWPadnos> hey, if you can write up a nice method for doing local repos and/or offline installs/updates, please put it on the wiki :)
[19:22:08] <jepler> the only thing I know about people who go down this road is that, if they succeed, they never bother to document it on the wiki for the next guy.
[19:22:27] <Hoodoo> ok, well then. If i get it going... I will
[19:22:31] <SWPadnos> sure, but the packages depend on things like a realtime kernel, which may or may not install correctly on your machine
[19:22:50] <Hoodoo> i like to contribute to the community as you have all been so helpful
[19:22:53] <jepler> dsl isn't based on apt/dpkg anyway, is it?
[19:23:06] <Hoodoo> i can intall either way
[19:23:13] <jepler> SWPadnos: hm, atom-based but it still has a fan? I thought atom was low power
[19:23:15] <Hoodoo> i will figure it out
[19:23:32] <jepler> (did we go through this once before?)
[19:23:34] <SWPadnos> jepler, the CPU is low power, but the chipset isn't ;)
[19:23:45] <SWPadnos> the chipset uses 2-3x the power of the CPU
[19:24:09] <SWPadnos> (one reason I like AMD chips - they include the always-necessary interface to memory)
[19:24:19] <Hoodoo> jepler, if i use alternate install ubuntu, then i have apt and dpkg
[19:24:34] <SWPadnos> ah - there's the key item
[19:24:52] <SWPadnos> once you have Ubuntu installed, you can apt-get or dpkg it however you want
[19:25:15] <SWPadnos> the confusion was how you would get out Ubuntu packages from a non-Ubuntu (nad non-apt-based) current install
[19:25:19] <SWPadnos> s/out/our/
[19:25:22] <BJT-Gone-Fishing> BJT-Gone-Fishing is now known as BJT-Work
[19:25:29] <SWPadnos> ok, time to eat something. bbl
[19:25:50] <Hoodoo> kk
[19:28:16] <Hoodoo> http://u-lite.org/?q=node/125 U-Lite looks like the distro for me then
[19:32:29] <cradek> looks interesting
[19:32:35] <Hoodoo> yes
[19:32:47] <Hoodoo> gotta figure out that network install however
[19:33:35] <cradek> but, I do not know whether our distributed packages would run on it.
[19:34:13] <Hoodoo> it is ubuntu
[19:34:34] <jepler> but which one?
[19:35:15] <jepler> if it is not based on 6.06 or 8.04, then it's a crapshoot whether our precompiled packages (particularly the kernel) will work properly with it
[19:35:19] <Hoodoo> dapper, gutsy or fiesty
[19:35:24] <jepler> I don't see anything which explains the relationship of a u-lite release with an ubuntu release
[19:35:47] <Hoodoo> http://u-lite.org/?q=node/117
[19:37:45] <jepler> you'd need to choose dapper (6.06), then
[19:38:01] <Hoodoo> righty
[19:38:04] <jepler> linuxcnc's support of dapper is expected to continue through the end of the 2.3 cycle but not beyond that
[19:39:20] <cradek> on the small machine I still use, I installed dapper server and then X and the window manager of my choice. It seems like that's what U-lite does too.
[19:39:23] <Hoodoo> ok, maybe i will have more money then
[19:39:49] <Hoodoo> yes
[19:40:50] <Hoodoo> downloading the alt CD, done in 26mins
[19:41:00] <cradek> (although I put lots of RAM in it...)
[19:41:25] <Hoodoo> yea
[19:41:59] <Hoodoo> i can possibly borrow 512 out my tablet pc for time being
[19:43:02] <Hoodoo> ive got the installer script
[19:43:20] <Hoodoo> usb it over... run... easy..
[19:43:55] <Hoodoo> wheres the wiki?
[19:45:27] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl
[19:48:39] <Hoodoo> page name anyone?
[19:50:07] <skunkworks> what are you needing?
[19:50:48] <Hoodoo> i mean suggested for a new page... about installing on a very old laptop
[19:50:54] <Hoodoo> actually, dont worry
[19:51:03] <Hoodoo> ill only make it if it works
[19:53:14] <SWPadnos> it looks like this is the Hardy version: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/20070308ubuntu40.4/images/netboot/netboot.tar.gz
[19:53:46] <SWPadnos> err - or one of the other files in that directory
[19:54:11] <SWPadnos> the link from ulite to the "current" is for hardy, so that should be usable
[19:56:23] <Hoodoo> dang, ive gone for 6.06 now
[19:57:03] <Hoodoo> ah, its ok, its netboot anyway
[19:57:14] <Hoodoo> no good for a networkless laptop
[20:56:11] <gene__> hey guys; I just told adept to do a full upgrade, then noticed it was downloading kernel images, so I ran into /boot and diddd a cchattr +i *magma
[20:56:16] <gene__> did I do right?
[20:57:19] <SWPadnos> hard to tell
[20:57:29] <SWPadnos> if you can reboot, then you probably didn't break anything
[20:58:00] <SWPadnos> however, you also probably didn't prevent what you might have been trying to prevent, which is the configuring of grub to boot a new (and probably non-RT) kernel
[20:58:25] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure that installing one kernel does not cause older kernels to be removed
[20:58:32] <gene__> We'll see if adept chokes on those I guess. Its still downloading about 193 megs of stuff that wil use 60 when its done. I'll get to that too thanks
[20:58:57] <SWPadnos> is this a Hardy system? (8.04)
[20:59:20] <alex_joni> magma sounds like dapper
[20:59:29] <SWPadnos> oh, good point
[20:59:29] <alex_joni> but maybe the full upgrade is towards 8.04
[20:59:36] <SWPadnos> I wonder if it's upgrading to Hardy
[20:59:49] <alex_joni> gene__: if you're upgrading to hardy, remember to run the emc2 install script again
[20:59:54] <alex_joni> after the install is finished
[21:00:06] <alex_joni> or else you'll be left on the old dapper kernel
[21:00:46] <gene__> not install. I just got tired of opening the update menu for everything that was labeled updateable
[21:01:10] <SWPadnos> ok, then you should be fine
[21:01:22] <Goslowjimbo> Here's the Dmesg, .hal, and .ini file for my mill. http://pastebin.com/m6a307fd2 I started up the terminal before trying to run EMC, but didn't get any errors or anything on terminal.
[21:01:25] <SWPadnos> all updates is OK, anything that says "upgrade" makes for more work
[21:01:34] <gene__> And I just made meu.lst immutable too.
[21:01:57] <gene__> That should cover it I think :)
[21:01:58] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, did you run emc from the terminal, or did you still run it from the icon?
[21:02:12] <Goslowjimbo> I ran it from the icon.
[21:02:18] <SWPadnos> you have to type "emc" into the terminal if you want to see the messages ...
[21:02:26] <Goslowjimbo> OH . . .
[21:02:39] <gene__> I didn't know it had one, I must be begind the times then...
[21:02:48] <SWPadnos> and I didn't even put any expletives in that explanation :)
[21:02:54] <alex_joni> m7i43_th.hal:172: pin 'net' does not exist
[21:03:02] <SWPadnos> gene__, don't do that to menu.lst
[21:03:05] <alex_joni> Goslowjimbo: sounds like a typo
[21:03:11] <gene__> why not
[21:03:15] <alex_joni> Goslowjimbo: in your m7i43_th.hal file
[21:03:16] <SWPadnos> if you are getting an RTAI kernel upadte, then you want menu.lst to change
[21:04:43] <gene__> I don't see any rtai updates in the list of dl's (yet)
[21:05:01] <Goslowjimbo> That's what I thought, but I can't find it. I've retyped that line 4 or 5 times. The only editing to this file between 2.2.8 and 2.3 was to remove the .P3 references in the GPIO pins.
[21:05:25] <Hoodoo> bye all
[21:05:31] <Hoodoo> bye all,
[21:05:32] <alex_joni> Goslowjimbo: you sure it's the right file?
[21:05:40] <SWPadnos> gene__, was this originally installed from kubuntu, then with the emc2.install script?
[21:05:46] <alex_joni> try putting a typo at the first line, and see if it chokes
[21:05:51] <Hoodoo> thanks for all the help tonight
[21:05:52] <gene__> I think so
[21:06:03] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, hmmm. it may not matter, but have you tried getting rid of the "=>"?
[21:06:21] <Goslowjimbo> I copied it from the computer after I got the error.
[21:06:41] <SWPadnos> gene__, ok, in that case maybe preventing changes to menu.lst is OK - I don't know (you'll find out ;) )
[21:06:56] <Goslowjimbo> No, I haven't tried to remove the "arrow". I didn't think of that.
[21:07:27] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't matter
[21:07:35] <Goslowjimbo> If I need to get the terminal errors, I can still do that tonight.
[21:07:38] <gene__> Anybody need any rain? I have a surplus, in my basement... Yeah, I'll reboot when its done, that is for sure.
[21:08:07] <gene__> Got 4.5" in the last 2 days here
[21:08:16] <SWPadnos> excellent!
[21:09:09] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, ok. just to be sure, you are expecting to use the config at /home/jsr/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/m7i43_th.ini, right?
[21:09:41] <Goslowjimbo> right.
[21:09:45] <gene__> And I'l still amazed, that piece of cat5 dangling across the back yard to here is a good 5 years old now, still moving data
[21:12:13] <gene__> adept noted the no permissions on menu.lst & kept on going
[21:12:18] <gene__> :)
[21:12:36] <SWPadnos> as long as it wasn't a -magma kernel being installed - great :)
[21:12:49] <Goslowjimbo> alex_joni: When I comment out the offending line in the hal file, it starts up. Y doesn't work, but it starts up.
[21:12:55] <gene__> Tweren't
[21:13:51] <gene__> and I know how to edit menu.lst in any event.
[21:17:49] <Goslowjimbo> Is there anything else I need to type in terminal to see the errors? Just emc?
[21:17:59] <SWPadnos> nothing else
[21:18:29] <SWPadnos> I think there's a way of running emc in "verbose mode", but I'm not sure how to do it
[21:18:57] <Goslowjimbo> Since we all seem to be in need of more data here, I'll run out there and try to get the terminal error listing.
[21:19:06] <Goslowjimbo> Bye.
[21:19:07] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:19:09] <SWPadnos> see you
[21:24:10] <gene> I'm back, all rebooted, looks like its all ok.
[21:25:04] <gene> laterz, gotta go check water levels
[21:27:43] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: running from the menu will put the error messages to the log
[21:27:51] <alex_joni> but it's only a bit harder to read..
[21:29:17] <alex_joni> I'm about to head to bed
[21:29:25] <alex_joni> but I notice he's missing a line from the Y axis:
[21:29:51] <alex_joni> net motor.01.command pid.1.output => hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.01.value
[21:29:59] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:34:27] <pjm_dk> yo
[21:38:45] <jepler> hi pjm_dk
[21:39:40] <pjm_dk> hi ! typically work has sent me on a job in denmark, so i'm away from my milling machine ;-(
[21:40:06] <jepler> you need one small enough to take with you
[21:40:26] <pjm_dk> ah btw, using a feed i made for my 32GHz receiver, i sucessfully copied a signal from the NASA kepler spacecraft when it was just over 3.5 million miles out!
[21:40:43] <pjm_dk> the feed was machined with emc2
[21:40:53] <jepler> that's quite cool
[21:41:08] <pjm_dk> yeah i was pretty pleased to copy the signal
[21:43:26] <jepler> this reminds me that seb_kuzminsky has something to do with interplanetary communication in his job
[21:43:34] <jepler> he explained it all to me, but then I forgot the details :-P
[21:46:03] <pjm_dk> ah really, that is interesting to know
[21:47:29] <jepler> I think maybe what he told me about is his participation in http://www.ipnsig.org/home.htm
[21:48:21] <Goslowjimbo> I'm Back. http://pastebin.com/m226d8907 has a terminal listing, a emc_debug listing, and a emc_print listing.
[21:48:24] <jepler> something to do with interplanetary networks
[21:48:51] <jepler> #
[21:48:52] <jepler> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2/hm2_7i43.ko': -1 Invalid parameters
[21:48:57] <jepler> look in dmesg to find the cause of this problem
[21:49:00] <jepler> dmesg is not shown in what you pasted
[21:49:08] <jepler> in the termina, type "dmesg" and look at the messages near the bottom
[21:49:11] <jepler> terminal
[21:49:24] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that's a different problem than before, isn't it?
[21:49:39] <jepler> SWPadnos: to me it sounds different than what Goslowjimbo was mentioning yesterday, yes
[21:49:48] <Goslowjimbo> http://pastebin.com/m6a307fd2 has dmesg, .hal and .ini
[21:49:57] <SWPadnos> or earlier today
[21:50:00] <SWPadnos> like that ^^
[21:51:45] <Goslowjimbo> As far as I can tell, this is the same problem all 3 times. If I comment out the question, I load completely. This is just what I get with the line in.
[21:52:14] <SWPadnos> no, this was different
[21:52:23] <SWPadnos> it failed on line 45, not 172 like before
[21:52:41] <SWPadnos> this time it couldn't load the 7i43 driver
[21:54:35] <Goslowjimbo> OH, I didn't catch that. I bet I didn't turn on the 5 volt supply. I'll go back and try again. Bye. I'll be back with the right listings.
[21:55:15] <jepler> * jepler hyperventilates
[21:55:23] <SWPadnos> right there with you
[21:56:10] <archivist> another user in need of lurk training
[21:56:20] <jepler> has he posted a listing of the hal file where it's possible to be confident which line is "172"?
[21:56:34] <SWPadnos> yes, I think the 07fd2 one is it
[21:56:53] <SWPadnos> just add 850 to it
[22:02:10] <jepler> is there a paste with the message that 'net is not a pin'?
[22:02:46] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.com/m6a307fd2 line 842
[22:03:00] <SWPadnos> it's actually "pin 'net' does not exist"
[22:03:17] <SWPadnos> so it looks like there's a line that says net net ...
[22:03:29] <SWPadnos> but I didn't see it
[22:05:50] <JymmmEMC> http://codepad.org/UPwYUr4z
[22:06:23] <jepler> or there's a bug which is making halcmd print the wrong error, or which is making it parse the line in a truly outlandish function
[22:06:26] <jepler> fashion
[22:07:21] <SWPadnos> yeah
[22:07:36] <SWPadnos> I considered that removing the => from that line might do something, though it shouldn't
[22:15:25] <jepler> at this point I almost want to get the .hal file as an e-mail attachment (no pasting)
[22:15:56] <jepler> maybe there's some weird character that pastes and shows up in a too-friendly editor as a space or newline but is something else like nbsp or carriage return
[22:16:05] <SWPadnos> yeah, I was thinking that
[22:16:21] <SWPadnos> but he does say that adding the # sing (as in the pastebin) lets the system load just fine
[22:16:28] <SWPadnos> and that he's retyped the line several times
[22:16:46] <SWPadnos> though I don't know if that means "select that line and the ones above and bleow, then retype"
[22:22:50] <SWPadnos> I wonder what BTC1.hal does
[22:22:54] <jepler> the only spot ./hal/utils/halrmt.c: sprintf(errorStr, "pin '%s' does not exist", pins[i]);
[22:22:58] <jepler> ./hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c: halcmd_error("pin '%s' does not exist\n",
[22:23:00] <jepler> er
[22:23:03] <jepler> the only spots where that message could be printed are these two
[22:23:07] <jepler> and it isn't halrmt, right?
[22:23:14] <SWPadnos> no, shouldn't be
[22:25:32] <jepler> so how can net get into preflight_net_cmd's pins[]s array?
[22:25:51] <SWPadnos> heh. funny comment in there: newinst deferred to 2.2
[22:25:57] <jepler> yeah funny eh
[22:26:20] <jepler> turns out I don't think newinst is that important, and anyway it's a distraction right now
[22:26:29] <SWPadnos> sorry - just funny
[22:29:21] <jepler> well, I've made a malformed hal file that 'cat's plausibly and displays that error .. but I can't imagine it would show up in pastebin or any editor looking like we saw it
[22:29:56] <SWPadnos> oh - you can make the error happen, that's cool
[22:31:52] <jepler> it looks funky in my editor, though -- obviously wrong
[22:32:10] <jepler> my editor shows this: net x^Mnet x and2.0.out => and2.0.in
[22:32:24] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[22:32:29] <SWPadnos> what does gedit show?
[22:32:56] <jepler> it shows "net x" on one line and "net x and2.0.out => and2.0.in" on the next line
[22:33:24] <jepler> it **does** preserve the bad line ending when it saves though
[22:34:41] <SWPadnos> ok, 'cause I'll bet that's what he uses to edit, if he's doing it on the EMC2 machine
[22:34:51] <jepler> ** (gedit:19825): WARNING **: Throbber animation not found.
[22:34:58] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:35:27] <archivist> line endings in 2009 should not matter
[22:35:48] <jepler> archivist: I'm sure that's what the gedit developers were thinking
[22:35:52] <archivist> thats so 1980's
[22:36:37] <Goslowjimbo> OK, let's try again. http://pastebin.com/m46e2addb has the .ini, .hal. dmesg, terminal, debug, and print listings.
[22:36:43] <archivist> I had fun with some utf8 and gedit the other day
[22:37:38] <Goslowjimbo> evidently, the error doesn't get reported in dmesg if your run from terminal --?
[22:39:14] <jepler> Goslowjimbo: SWPadnos and I have come to the conclusion that there is some kind of control code in your hal file that is not visible when you put it on pastebin.
[22:39:38] <Goslowjimbo> How do I get those to show up?
[22:39:41] <jepler> Goslowjimbo: please send the hal file (only) to me as an e-mail *attachment* . Do this without using cut and paste.
[22:39:59] <jepler> jepler@unpythonic.net
[22:42:18] <Goslowjimbo> Thanks, Jepler. It'll take a minute, but it's coming your way.
[22:42:29] <jepler> hi seb
[22:42:54] <seb_kuzminsky> hi there
[22:44:47] <jepler> if it was a CR and not a CRNL or NL between "864" and "865" in that last paste, it would cause the behavior we're seeing
[22:45:55] <SWPadnos> looking at the pastebin data (copied and pasted into a file), there are a bunch of ^M in the ini file
[22:46:22] <jepler> my experience has been that some of the pastebin sites show all files with DOS line endings when you use the "raw" view
[22:46:23] <SWPadnos> I don't know what that does though, I don't think the line is completely re-parsed after substitution
[22:46:30] <jepler> I dunno about .com but I've seen it with patches on pastebin.ca
[22:46:32] <SWPadnos> (or at least, a new line won't be read)
[22:46:37] <jepler> (or maybe I misinterpreted what I saw)
[22:47:07] <SWPadnos> no, grep -e "^M" only returns some lines from the ini portion of the file, plus the line "M7i43.hal"
[22:47:34] <seb_kuzminsky> logger_emc: bookmark
[22:47:34] <seb_kuzminsky> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-05-05.txt
[22:55:08] <Goslowjimbo> What does ctrl-M do?
[22:55:22] <SWPadnos> it's a carriage return
[22:55:26] <jepler> yep, that's the problem
[22:55:37] <SWPadnos> those files have been edited with a DOS/Windows-based editor at some point
[22:56:10] <jepler> I fixed the problems in your file: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/m7i43_th-fixed.hal
[22:56:36] <SWPadnos> yay!
[22:56:51] <archivist> * archivist thinks thats a valid bug in the parser
[22:57:01] <Goslowjimbo> Thanks. I'll grab it and see how it works. I don't remember editing in Windoze, but I could have.
[22:57:14] <jepler> I will also make halcmd print a better error in this case:
[22:57:15] <jepler> badly.hal:2: File contains embedded carriage returns. This will lead to unintended parsing of the file
[22:57:17] <SWPadnos> archivist, no, it's not
[22:57:19] <jepler> dosly.hal:1: Warning: File contains DOS-style line endings. This may lead to unintended parsing of the file
[22:57:34] <jepler> ^^ something like that
[22:57:54] <SWPadnos> there is no good reason to make halcmd read a file character by character so that it can treat non-line-ending characters as line ends (sometimes)
[22:58:10] <SWPadnos> the better solution is to use dos2unix on offending files
[22:58:27] <jepler> SWPadnos: here's what I intend to do:
[22:58:33] <jepler> SWPadnos: if \r\n is encountered, print a warning and continue
[22:58:36] <archivist> or a a readline that handles it
[22:59:10] <SWPadnos> archivist, if readline can handle it gracefully, then I'd certainly use that option
[22:59:14] <jepler> SWPadnos: if \r followed by something besides \n is encountered, error out and tell the user to fix it (in a way that hopefully indicates what the problem is better than the last error)
[22:59:20] <SWPadnos> jepler, ok, a warning when it's noticed is OK with me
[22:59:36] <jepler> one case is warning-only, the other is an errr
[22:59:38] <jepler> error
[22:59:40] <SWPadnos> the same logic is necessary in the ini reading library/utility
[22:59:42] <jepler> because it's about to lead to an untended parse
[22:59:52] <jepler> quite possibly
[23:00:00] <SWPadnos> ok, errors are also OK - trying to figure out what the user meant is different :)
[23:00:50] <SWPadnos> though I guess the ini reads use numeric conversions, which will stop at the first non-numeric character
[23:01:25] <SWPadnos> or there will be funny strings, which won't affect a machine
[23:01:30] <Goslowjimbo> SHould I get the ctrl-Ms out of my .ini file also?
[23:01:31] <jepler> Goslowjimbo: can you download that "fixed.hal" file and tell me if it corrects the problem for you?
[23:02:02] <Goslowjimbo> Sure. I'll be back in a while. Bye.
[23:02:08] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, for the most part, there's no reason to have that kind of line ending on a Unix system
[23:02:13] <SWPadnos> wait!
[23:02:22] <Goslowjimbo> wait?
[23:02:23] <archivist> lurk and stay
[23:02:25] <SWPadnos> yes, you :)
[23:02:34] <archivist> carry on doing though
[23:02:36] <SWPadnos> there is a program called dos2unix
[23:02:54] <SWPadnos> does your EMC2 machine have net access?
[23:03:19] <Goslowjimbo> Just the one here at the house, not the one with the mill.
[23:03:43] <SWPadnos> ok, hold on one second then
[23:04:07] <SWPadnos> there is probably a command that can fix the files for you, you don't have to re-type things by hand or anythingi
[23:04:09] <SWPadnos> -i
[23:06:58] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, do you have a flash drive or something that you can move a file to the EMC2 machine with?
[23:07:01] <archivist> tofrodos
[23:07:19] <SWPadnos> yeah
[23:07:38] <Goslowjimbo> I've got about 8G left on one.
[23:08:21] <SWPadnos> download this file: http://mirrors.cs.wmich.edu/ubuntu/pool/main/t/tofrodos/tofrodos_1.7.6-2_i386.deb
[23:08:38] <jepler> SWPadnos: will you finish talking Goslowjimbo through this? I need to get going.
[23:08:44] <SWPadnos> yep
[23:08:48] <jepler> SWPadnos: thanks
[23:08:51] <SWPadnos> sure
[23:08:58] <SWPadnos> is that what you did? (dos2unix)
[23:10:00] <SWPadnos> oh - of course I don't have the original. duh
[23:10:43] <SWPadnos> ok Goslowjimbo, get that file, bring it to the EMC2 machine, and install it (you can roght-click it and select "install with gdebi" from the menu)
[23:11:05] <SWPadnos> that will install a couple of utilities, one of which is called dos2unix
[23:11:33] <SWPadnos> you use it by running (from the command line) dos2unix your_file
[23:11:43] <SWPadnos> where your_file is whatever file you want to convert
[23:12:23] <Goslowjimbo> Got it. Then this will handle the CR LF and CR mix up?
[23:12:33] <SWPadnos> note that if you press tab in a terminal, it will try to complete words for you (so dos2<tab> will type out dos2unix , and once you have that you can start typing out the file name and press tab to complete it)
[23:12:36] <SWPadnos> I hope so :)
[23:12:44] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure that's what jepler did though
[23:13:51] <Goslowjimbo> Good. I've got it downloaded and I'll head out and run it on the .ini and .hal files out there.
[23:14:09] <SWPadnos> oh - if you have the files on this machine, you can try it now
[23:14:31] <SWPadnos> just install the package tofrodos
[23:14:41] <SWPadnos> (from a terminal, sudo apt-get install tofrodos)
[23:21:03] <Goslowjimbo> I'm doing something wrong. I keep getting unable to access file.
[23:21:20] <archivist> change the permissions
[23:21:24] <archivist> chmod
[23:21:40] <archivist> or owner
[23:21:46] <archivist> chown
[23:21:57] <Goslowjimbo> sudo won't work?
[23:23:17] <archivist> hmm you copied the file you should have the correct permissions
[23:23:39] <Goslowjimbo> That's what I thought
[23:24:07] <archivist> what was the exact error
[23:24:40] <archivist> its times like these you need a network cable to the actual pc
[23:25:17] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@Downstaies-linux:~$ dos2unix m7i43.hal
[23:25:17] <Goslowjimbo> dos2unix: Unable to access file m7i43.hal.
[23:25:29] <archivist> err no 2 means cant see it 13 means wrong permission
[23:28:17] <archivist> dos2unix m7i43_th-fixed.hal worked for me on the copy from jepler
[23:29:09] <Goslowjimbo> That's because you remembered to put in the _th at the end of the file. Duh.
[23:29:16] <archivist> the error is a file not found type
[23:29:30] <archivist> or the wrong name :)
[23:29:57] <SWPadnos> tab-complete the names
[23:30:08] <archivist> there was no remembering /me was copy pasting
[23:30:12] <SWPadnos> that prevents spelling errors, in addition to making it faster
[23:30:33] <Goslowjimbo> Must have hit the shift key instead.
[23:30:46] <SWPadnos> or caps-lock
[23:30:55] <archivist> dos2unix has an unusual for unix error
[23:31:11] <SWPadnos> well, it's assumed that dos users will use it :)
[23:31:17] <archivist> hehe
[23:31:49] <Goslowjimbo> Thanks for all the help. I'll go try it out on the machine. Bye.
[23:31:51] <archivist> I was expecting the reason code I tested that here as well
[23:32:00] <SWPadnos> you don't have to exit while you try it
[23:32:51] <Goslowjimbo> OK. I'll just be miles away for a while. Don't know if the family will leave it up.
[23:33:26] <SWPadnos> heh