#emc | Logs for 2009-05-02

[04:44:33] <KimK> Has anyone looked into lodging for the Wichita Workshop? Is there a "popular" choice? And hopefully low-priced?
[04:49:42] <cradek> KimK: yes, on emc-users list
[04:50:49] <cradek> ... and with that, goodnight
[04:56:41] <KimK> cradek: thanks, goodnight
[06:49:12] <tomp> tomp is now known as tomp3
[06:54:54] <tomp3> what brands/models servo drives&motors are emc2 users using? ( as opposed to mongrel combos of drives not made for motors -- no offense, trying to differentiate)
[07:00:59] <tomp3> off topic: left taiwan yesterday, one photo from sun moon lake http://imagebin.org/47529
[07:50:39] <tomp3> awk! oh its 3am, thats why nobodys around! well this is interesting, as well as the sable 2015.. real metal machines as opposed to fireball and zenbot ... not an exact quote... 'my machine gets better every a bit of plastic/wood with metal'
[07:52:26] <tomp3> i saw a lot of taiwan machines, live with some mechanical adjustments, live with 'lower your expectations'( tm snl ) ... end up with more bang for your buck ;) (imo tomp3)
[07:53:13] <tomp3> now, where to get reasonable servos amps and linear scales ;) (oh! i know a guy :)
[07:54:13] <tomp3> oh yeah, the interesting thingy http://www.taobao.com/view_image.php?pic=Wx0GGlFDXA1VUwMKWx0SCwkNGRFcVxxQW1UcCxMFRBkDCFdVV1cRRhpcRDhHI2hBVWtRbQpdQic6PUs7WWsCAEdbQVBFBgYV&title=VE9OU0VOIENOQ8r9v9jX6s%2BztfG%2FzLv6o6jXwMPm0M2jqVRTMzA0MEI%3D&version=2&c=NmM0MDQzMTA5ZmUwMjQ5ZDViMDJmNDU4NjkzZWM2NDQ%3D
[07:54:33] <tomp3> or google tonsen cnc
[07:55:55] <tomp3> these systems have real ballscrews even dbl nut for less ( near <1um backlash ) and real guides. still stepper thinking tho. real metal frames tho alum.
[08:23:00] <tomp3> oh and 50 to 600 $ b4 shipping
[08:24:14] <tomp3> 500 ( welcome home 16osz black russians dont help my poor typing skills ) hahah taiping skills
[09:14:51] <billykid2> hello
[09:30:43] <billykid3> somebody can help me about rotary table error?
[09:32:02] <archivist> what sort of error
[09:33:21] <billykid3> if i give g0 a360
[09:33:41] <billykid3> make a full circle
[09:34:29] <billykid3> g0 a0 not return at 0
[09:34:44] <alex_joni> is this using MDI?
[09:34:52] <billykid3> about 5 degree minus
[09:34:58] <alex_joni> sounds like lost steps or something
[09:35:05] <billykid3> yes
[09:35:07] <alex_joni> what's your SCALE on the rotoary?
[09:35:08] <billykid3> mdi
[09:35:20] <billykid3> 49.3
[09:35:34] <alex_joni> try a G1 with lower speed
[09:35:40] <alex_joni> and see if it's still happening
[09:36:17] <billykid3> other 3 axes have the same driver
[09:36:24] <billykid3> servo dc
[09:36:25] <archivist> odd scale factor what worm ratio does it have
[09:37:47] <billykid3> what is number good for a axis?
[09:37:54] <billykid3> for scale
[09:38:18] <billykid3> later i change gear ratio in servo configurator
[09:40:48] <archivist> you need to find the worm ration in your rotary axis to set the correct scale/ratio
[09:41:02] <archivist> ration/ratio
[09:42:13] <billykid3> my scale ratio is good on clockwise direction
[09:43:21] <billykid3> but not in cclockwise
[09:46:25] <billykid3> hello
[09:48:41] <archivist> emc wont have directional error, that will be hardware/electronic
[09:53:16] <billykid3> yes
[09:53:45] <billykid3> but the same driver in linear axis work fine
[09:55:03] <archivist> stepper or servo...if stepper does it sound noisy, if so lost steps, change step speed
[09:55:36] <billykid3> ok
[09:56:37] <billykid3> what is scale number good for scale
[09:56:54] <billykid3> around 49?
[09:58:15] <billykid3> i refine servo gear ratio
[09:58:32] <billykid3> for precision
[10:06:46] <tomp3> check mechanical backlash of A axis. pull motor off A axis. put handle crank on A axis. mark beginning position of handle to A axis, turn CW till 360 degrees. turn CCW till 0. same number turns? same angle of handle?
[10:10:20] <billykid3> ok
[10:16:32] <JymmmEMC> archivist: Wanna guess who that was?
[10:16:33] <billykid3> 44 motor turn in both direction
[10:16:52] <billykid3> for 1 turn table
[10:17:30] <billykid3> backlash extremely low
[10:17:39] <archivist> JymmmEMC, he asked a php Q in #mysql
[10:17:55] <JymmmEMC> archivist: you banned him in there?
[10:18:02] <archivist> not yet
[10:18:18] <JymmmEMC> archivist: Well, he's lurking on mibbit too
[10:18:57] <archivist> dunno how you can tell its him on mibbit?
[10:19:20] <JymmmEMC> archivist: Easy, the first part of mibbit id is his ip address in hex
[10:19:59] <JymmmEMC> archivist: mib_wx7y58 [i=4646a119@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-011105d2318190b4]
[10:20:06] <JymmmEMC> archivist: IP in hex == 4646a119
[10:20:41] <archivist> useful to know :)
[10:20:56] <JymmmEMC> archivist: yep
[13:10:43] <billykid2> hello
[13:12:07] <BigJohnT> hi
[13:12:13] <billykid2> hi
[13:16:57] <billykid2> I solved my problem thanks
[13:17:41] <billykid2> around the rotary table
[13:19:02] <billykid2> sn75175 differential line receiver on driver
[13:19:17] <billykid2> failure
[13:20:22] <archivist> ok
[13:24:55] <billykid2> :)
[13:33:05] <billykid2> still a small question
[13:35:13] <billykid2> because the display of a axis is outside the cube?
[13:37:02] <billykid2> the a axis rotation have large diameter
[13:37:03] <archivist> not sure what the question is? note 2.3 has better display options
[13:37:31] <billykid2> yes 2.3
[13:38:38] <billykid2> I would in practice reduce the diameter
[13:40:11] <archivist> regular users of A axis machines need to say how they use them so the devs can get the display right
[13:41:21] <archivist> having the A axis center outside the envelope is a thing I do as well
[13:43:11] <billykid2> ok
[13:45:13] <billykid2> ini file in the display section, there is a line geometry = axyz
[13:46:27] <billykid2> for a machine over a 3-axis rotary table is correct?
[13:48:17] <archivist> I have not read the docs for that facility yet
[13:49:15] <billykid2> in any way is fine
[13:49:52] <billykid2> much work has been done with the 2.3
[14:23:06] <BigJohnT> hmmm, computing the XY velocity will be more fun than I thought... now where is my math book
[14:25:53] <Vq^> BigJohnT: how could it be more fun?
[14:26:28] <BigJohnT> it could have been simple :)
[14:26:38] <archivist> learn to count his toes again
[14:26:50] <BigJohnT> I need the combination of X and Y velocity
[14:26:54] <Vq^> i take it that Y isn't orthogonal to X
[14:27:21] <Vq^> otherwise i don't see the problem
[14:27:57] <BigJohnT> yes y is perpendicular to x
[14:28:13] <BigJohnT> I just have to figure out which forumla I need
[14:29:31] <BigJohnT> I have the absolute velocities of each axis
[14:29:56] <Vq^> isn't it just the Pythagorean theorem then?
[14:30:31] <archivist> or vector maths
[14:31:34] <BigJohnT> I've looked at that before as the name is familar
[14:31:54] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT looking at it now
[14:33:13] <BigJohnT> ahhh, yes that is the one :) thanks
[14:33:50] <SWPadnos> Vxy=sqrt(Vx^2+Vy^2)
[14:33:59] <SWPadnos> you can almost write it that way in C even :)
[14:34:00] <Vq^> well, one could say that you want to construct the velocity vector and normalise it
[14:34:18] <Vq^> it gives the same result
[14:34:46] <SWPadnos> I don't think it needs to be normalized - you only need the magnitude of the vector, not a unit vector
[14:34:56] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: Vq^ thanks
[14:35:08] <SWPadnos> sure
[14:35:13] <BigJohnT> I dont' even know what you said SWPadnos
[14:35:24] <SWPadnos> heh/ me either :)
[14:35:28] <Vq^> SWPadnos: true
[14:35:49] <Vq^> :)
[14:36:02] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, who was the person you banned?
[14:36:07] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT looks for the heh key on this keyboard
[14:36:08] <SWPadnos> or booted or whatever
[14:36:23] <SWPadnos> you need the special 127-key version
[14:36:26] <SWPadnos> custom
[14:38:26] <archivist> SWPadnos, he was a luser from ##php following JymmmEMC around
[14:38:31] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[14:38:48] <archivist> I banned him in #mysql
[14:39:02] <archivist> needless insults
[14:39:23] <SWPadnos> it's probably better to wait until someone does something bad before banning them, and I didn't see anything here so I started to wonder
[14:41:01] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: to use sqrt in a comp do I need to add math or something like that?
[14:41:09] <SWPadnos> probably
[14:41:53] <SWPadnos> yep. include "rtapi_math.h"
[14:42:00] <archivist> SWPadnos, from #mysql * yaris1234567891 is now known as Jymm_is_a_pussy ||next line|| <Jymm_is_a_pussy> archivist: let it be known that jymmm is a pussy
[14:42:10] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: thanks
[14:42:21] <SWPadnos> archivist, well, I knew that :)
[14:42:27] <SWPadnos> oh - that's insulting - right, got it :)
[14:42:32] <archivist> :)
[14:42:45] <archivist> that was a clean one
[14:43:05] <SWPadnos> well, some people don't like cats ;)
[14:43:47] <KimK> Hi all. Are most of the developers staying at the Western Holiday? (Stuart's first choice from his email of April 28)
[14:43:57] <SWPadnos> some are, some aren't
[14:44:20] <SWPadnos> I'm staying at the Hampton Inn, I think cradek is staying in his bus
[14:44:49] <KimK> OK, thanks.
[14:45:10] <archivist> * archivist is staying over here :(((((
[14:48:48] <SWPadnos> assuming all goes well travel and work wise, I'm still only able to go for more or less an extended weekend
[14:48:55] <cradek> BigJohnT: see motion.current-vel
[14:49:15] <cradek> it will be better than any estimate you can make with ddt+hypot
[14:49:35] <SWPadnos> cradek, unless he's looking for only XY vel (for which a hypot component would also do nicely)
[14:49:51] <cradek> oh, true, motion.current-vel would include Z.
[14:50:13] <cradek> the problem with ddt+hypot is it's "crunchy" as pcw would say
[14:50:18] <SWPadnos> yep
[14:50:33] <cradek> and also, late
[14:50:44] <cradek> but only one cycle
[14:51:12] <SWPadnos> heh - I was just wondering how much lag is acceptable in this situation (I'm assuming it's for that torch/plasma/laser intensity control thing)
[14:51:38] <cradek> yeah you could smooth it, if you can tolerate the delay.
[14:51:45] <SWPadnos> a small set of samples could improve the value a lot - say 8 or so
[14:51:58] <KimK> Thanks again, back later
[14:52:02] <SWPadnos> see you
[15:00:29] <BigJohnT> hi cradek , yes I need just the XY velocity
[15:01:17] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: I'll know how much lag is ok when I get it hooked up :)
[15:01:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:10:50] <BigJohnT> it compiles but I get an error "POW' not defined
[15:11:00] <BigJohnT> warning/error
[15:11:29] <BigJohnT> seems like fabs, ceil, causes the same warning
[15:12:13] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: it works perfectly so far
[15:12:17] <BigJohnT> :)
[15:12:45] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes to help the neighbor put the axles back on his John Deere 4020
[15:13:09] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe rtapi_math doesn't have all the prototypes from math.h
[15:14:20] <SWPadnos> hmmm. no, ceil and fabs are both in there
[15:14:28] <SWPadnos> and it's pow, not POW
[15:25:11] <SWPadnos> you know, it might make more sense to use ddt on the motion controller outputs rather than the feedback inputs
[15:25:22] <SWPadnos> those should be smooth, and they're not "late"
[15:26:27] <SWPadnos> they may be off a little, but unless your accel limits are drastically wrong for the machine (which they can't be unless you increase following error limits a lot), the commanded vel shouldn't be too different from actual
[16:01:40] <BigJohnT> I have the axis.n.motor-pos-cmd signal connected to the ddt.n.in
[16:02:04] <SWPadnos> ok, that should work better than feedback would
[16:02:29] <BigJohnT> and we got one axle installed and one to go
[16:02:41] <BigJohnT> but he has to get the wheel weights off first
[16:02:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:03:24] <SWPadnos> wow. it's less expensive to buy a 4-element resistor network than it is to buy one resistor
[16:04:14] <BigJohnT> heh
[16:05:09] <SWPadnos> and I'm surprised that it's literally one cent for the 4-resistor array, at DigiKey, in quantity 10
[16:05:19] <SWPadnos> it's 0.9 cents at 100 qty
[16:05:39] <BigJohnT> is that the blue long thingys with lots of pins?
[16:05:51] <SWPadnos> pins, what are these pins of which yo uspeak?
[16:05:58] <SWPadnos> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=YC164J-100CT-ND
[16:06:02] <BigJohnT> wires
[16:06:04] <SWPadnos> quad 0603 SMT arrat
[16:06:06] <SWPadnos> array
[16:06:18] <SWPadnos> I bet an 0402 array is even less expensive
[16:12:41] <jepler> SWPadnos: hm, 0805s are .033ea qty 10
[16:14:04] <jepler> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=RHM100ARCT-ND
[16:45:44] <SWPadnos> 0805 have been more than 0603 for a while
[16:45:53] <SWPadnos> I think 0402 became less than 0603 in the last year or two
[16:46:05] <SWPadnos> but they are a bit harder to solder
[16:53:45] <jepler> I'll stick with my huge 0805s
[16:54:05] <SWPadnos> monsters
[16:54:16] <SWPadnos> it's funny how large a 1206 looks these days
[16:54:21] <SWPadnos> or an 0805 for that matter :)
[16:54:36] <SWPadnos> if you need any, let me know. I have some reels of various 0805 and 1206 resistors and caps
[16:57:13] <Paragon27> Hello all! How are you all doing? I know this is off topic but I need a little advice with regards to cutting fine threads as I need to cut a thread of 0.6mm pitch on a 3mm shaft. Is the same process as regular screw cutting in the lathe? Is there anything different with the 60 degree cutting tool? Thanks
[17:01:13] <cradek> my only hints are make sure you have as little stickout as possible. make sure the tool is as sharp as you can get it, and is exactly on center height.
[17:02:05] <cradek> I cut a 4-48 thread for an indicator attachment recently - it was not at all difficult, but I used brass.
[17:02:55] <cradek> 4-48 is about 2.5mm diameter, 0.5mm pitch
[17:03:52] <Paragon27> cradek: Thanks Cradek.... I thought I ask as I only have experience in cutting threads > 1.5mm which are a great deal courser.
[17:03:54] <cradek> I used HSS and a little oil. like always, feed in at 29 degrees so you're cutting only on the headstock side of the tool.
[17:04:12] <cradek> what material are you using?
[17:04:23] <Paragon27> mild steel
[17:04:52] <cradek> I'd still use HSS so it's very sharp.
[17:05:22] <cradek> do you have more than one try, or do you have to get it right the first time?
[17:05:57] <Paragon27> I pretty much always use HSS as I prefer the cut than with carbide. Pluss I getting pretty good at grinding my own tool bits.
[17:09:51] <cradek> it's nice to be able to make oddly shaped tools - HSS squares are cheap!
[17:10:01] <Paragon27> as many tries as it takes. I am trying to repair a part for my model rc heli. The part is a stabilizing bar that pokes out from the swash plate. I also need to turn a small ball aprox 4.5mm dia into the bar aprox 5mm from one end. The servo connecting rod connects to the ball and pivets. I cut a form tool on the grinder not sure of any other options for the ball. hope that made sence :-) the...
[17:10:02] <Paragon27> ...bar is aprox 3.2mm width.
[17:10:43] <cradek> if using cnc you can do the ball with an arc
[17:14:08] <Paragon27> I thought of that ie using my little denford starturn lathe but I think it may more trouble that its worth. how would you do it in cnc ie what type of tool and would you do it in one go? The proble is the ball is aprox 5mm from end and 15mm from the other end of the bar. So in essence the ball is between to 3.2 mm bar but cut from one piece of stock.
[17:15:06] <cradek> can you make the ball separately?
[17:15:06] <Paragon27> dam did that make sense lol
[17:15:20] <Paragon27> Unfortunatly not.
[17:15:45] <dmess> so you need a ball with 2 studs protruding???
[17:15:50] <cradek> then I'd try to turn the 3.2mm bar from something larger
[17:16:17] <cradek> you can turn small diameters without a follower rest if you do it in ONE cut
[17:16:25] <Paragon27> dmess: indeed. but from one peice of stock.
[17:16:27] <cradek> the remaining large stock supports the cut
[17:16:41] <cradek> you have to be very bold :-)
[17:17:01] <dmess> what is the rad between the ball and the posts
[17:17:22] <dmess> and whats the material?>
[17:17:26] <cradek> steel
[17:17:44] <cradek> the 5mm end from the ball is no problem - what is the required length on the other side?
[17:18:06] <Paragon27> I was going to start with a 5mm bar chucked in a collet and center drilled for support. Yes Steel.
[17:18:15] <dmess> what kinda steel>
[17:18:39] <dmess> if you can use a center you should have no problem
[17:18:52] <cradek> I agree
[17:18:52] <Paragon27> mild steel ... lenth at other end aprox 15mm
[17:19:11] <cradek> that's a little long, but still might be ok
[17:20:09] <cradek> sounds like a fun challenge.
[17:20:22] <Paragon27> I was thinking of keeping a shoulder (5mm) on either end for support until the job was complete.
[17:20:24] <dmess> you should be ok use as small a tool nose rad as possible to keep it free cutting and 5-7 degrees positive rake
[17:21:31] <cradek> I don't think you should try to leave a shoulder on the tailstock end. it will really be in the way.
[17:21:40] <cradek> you sure can't thread it
[17:26:03] <Paragon27> here is a picture of the swashplate with the bar at the top that I need to make. a picture speaks a thousand words. This part actualy is screwed in but it snapped when I tried to remove it for swashplate ajustment :-( . They are not for sale separetly so one need to buy a whole swahplate at 35 quid ... Joke! http://www.centuryuk.com/Products/Helicopters+Spares/Nitro+Kestrel+SE?pos=9
[17:28:25] <dmess> i could do that on my hardinge ;)
[17:28:31] <cradek> yeah, me too :-)
[17:28:39] <dmess> and thd it too
[17:29:03] <cradek> I'd turn the ball on the left end and thread the left side - can't do that very easily on a manual lathe
[17:29:28] <Paragon27> hard job then?
[17:29:34] <dmess> chuck it short... turn and thd.. pull it out turn the ball... pull it out turn shaft and part off
[17:29:36] <cradek> with cnc, not really
[17:30:16] <cradek> I think I'd do it in one chucking, ball on the left, start with oversize stock and try to turn to size in one pass
[17:30:22] <dmess> with cnc it would take me about an hour to have a prt off
[17:31:00] <cradek> manually, you'd use two chuckings, the ball is the hard part
[17:31:17] <dmess> thats what form tools are for
[17:31:43] <cradek> diameter is pretty small to try to cut the whole ball at once with a form tool. I think it would lift up over the tool.
[17:31:53] <Paragon27> Sure... what tool(s) would you use the cnc operation?
[17:32:26] <Paragon27> ie in one operation?
[17:32:38] <cradek> how much radius is allowed where the ball and shaft meet?
[17:33:04] <dmess> with a cnc i'd probably hit the ball with a vcmt with a .004" tool nose rad
[17:33:25] <Paragon27> rad = 2.25mm from memory
[17:33:42] <Paragon27> vcmt?
[17:33:48] <dmess> it should let me get the whole ball before fouling
[17:33:50] <cradek> no I mean the fillet radius
[17:34:03] <dmess> 30 degree insert
[17:34:28] <Paragon27> cradek: sorry i don't follow?
[17:34:36] <dmess> so at 15 degrees fron normal i foul
[17:34:39] <cradek> yeah the 30 degree profiling insert might get most of the back of the ball. if you're lucky you can leave it
[17:35:08] <dmess> luck has nothiong to do with it
[17:35:09] <cradek> Paragon27: imagine cutting the ball->shaft interface. if the tool is not exactly pointy you will leave a fillet there. how much fillet is allowed?
[17:36:36] <Paragon27> cradek: on the original none from what i can see (or very small).
[17:37:14] <cradek> but in the application how much is allowable?
[17:37:51] <Paragon27> at a guestimate aprox .25mm
[17:38:01] <Paragon27> maybe a little more.
[17:38:03] <dmess> with a cnc and a .004" = .1mm thats about as small as would be used
[17:38:47] <dmess> unless its moulded then it could be almost perfectly sharp
[17:39:21] <cradek> sounds like you would have to cut the ball with two tools
[17:39:55] <dmess> i dont think so.. bcz of the dia. of the spigot
[17:40:48] <dmess> it creeps up the ball and above the 15 degree tangency.. so the vcmt sould have no problem
[17:43:13] <Paragon27> Guys thanks for you advice and help as alway :-) I have to headout for dinner... the missus is calling ... I mean demanding .... lol Thanks again!
[18:15:01] <rob__> hi, if i set current tool with M61 Qxx will this set the iocontrol.0.tool-number to that value also to set current tool in spindle
[19:28:27] <tomp3> any recommendations for soft tools to document machine wiring?
[19:41:39] <Roguish> hey all. quick easy linux question: how to move a partition from 1 disk to another.
[19:42:15] <Roguish> got 6.0 and emc2.8 on a small disk and want to go to a larger disk.
[19:44:57] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: A stalker (ya jerk ;)
[19:55:08] <Roguish> anyone out there?
[19:56:57] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: dd
[19:57:30] <Roguish> dd what?
[19:57:46] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: That's the command 'dd'. man dd
[19:58:09] <Roguish> ok, got that, anu gui type app?
[19:58:14] <Roguish> any
[19:58:21] <JymmmEMC> I hope not
[19:59:27] <maddash> fuck no
[20:00:40] <JymmmEMC> Well, parted, partimage, and dd
[20:02:51] <Roguish> ok, i'll look at them, thanks.
[20:13:05] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: How many patitions are on the small drive that you want to keep/move?
[20:13:57] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: fdisk -L /dev/smalldrive
[20:14:13] <Roguish> 3
[20:14:20] <JymmmEMC> what types?
[20:15:10] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Is the new drive completely empty?
[20:15:17] <Roguish> well, it's a standard ubuntu install on an 8gig drive.
[20:15:31] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: That doens't tell me anything.
[20:15:52] <JymmmEMC> Look at the output of the fdisk command I gave you
[20:16:03] <Roguish> 2, a swap and an ext3
[20:16:20] <JymmmEMC> But you said it had 3?
[20:16:44] <Roguish> one is extended. contains the swap
[20:16:50] <Roguish> sorry
[20:17:18] <JymmmEMC> Say what? You have a swpa partition within an extended partition?
[20:17:41] <Roguish> yeah
[20:17:51] <Roguish> ??
[20:17:57] <Roguish> bad?
[20:18:03] <Roguish> dumb?
[20:18:16] <JymmmEMC> Well, swap has it's own partition type
[20:18:56] <Roguish> guess it might be a good time to rearrange things a bit.
[20:19:38] <JymmmEMC> swap type = 82
[20:19:46] <JymmmEMC> Extended type = 5
[20:19:52] <JymmmEMC> Linux type = 83
[20:20:28] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Is the new hdd completely empty?
[20:20:41] <Roguish> it will be
[20:21:23] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: and the small drive is what /dev/hda? /devsda ?
[20:22:12] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Is the existing hdd and the cdrom plugged into the same cable?
[20:22:21] <Roguish> yes
[20:22:23] <JymmmEMC> assuming only one cdrom
[20:22:40] <JymmmEMC> Is the hdd Master or Slave?
[20:22:46] <Roguish> master
[20:23:13] <JymmmEMC> Ok, the most straight forward way to do this is to use DD + parted.....
[20:23:31] <JymmmEMC> Connect the new hdd to secondary Master/Single
[20:23:42] <Roguish> sounds like i should do a new install. on the new disk and just move the files i need.
[20:24:08] <JymmmEMC> are you going to still keep the old build?
[20:24:18] <JymmmEMC> or update to the latest?
[20:24:50] <Roguish> i would like to, but this box is already at 2.8
[20:24:51] <JymmmEMC> If you do a fresh install on the new hdd, I'd suggest NOT to use LVM, but use ext2/3 instead.
[20:25:34] <Roguish> ok what's LVM? haven't heard of that one.
[20:25:41] <JymmmEMC> Well if you decide to do a fresh install....
[20:25:58] <Roguish> large volume management?
[20:26:04] <JymmmEMC> 1) Unplug the smallhdd completely (data and power)
[20:26:13] <tomp3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Volume_Manager_(Linux)
[20:26:24] <Roguish> ok, close
[20:26:32] <JymmmEMC> 2) Install the new hdd in it's place as Primary Master
[20:26:41] <Roguish> ok
[20:27:23] <JymmmEMC> 3) Go thru the install process, when it asks about partitioning the new hdd, use EXT3, not LVM, and give swap it's own partition, not shared.
[20:27:32] <Roguish> ok
[20:27:51] <JymmmEMC> 4) Once the new install is complete, install the oldhdd as Secondary MAster/Single
[20:28:13] <JymmmEMC> 5) You can then mount the old drive and copy over files as needed.
[20:29:14] <Roguish> can i copy the old disk partitions over and then get grub to boot from them? dual boot.
[20:29:26] <JymmmEMC> why?
[20:29:33] <Roguish> why not?
[20:29:57] <JymmmEMC> why dual boot Windows 98?
[20:30:05] <Roguish> is it possible?
[20:30:13] <JymmmEMC> You'll just have to maintain two systems
[20:30:42] <Roguish> no, not 98, but the original ubuntu on the small disk. yes i know it would be entirely a new system.
[20:30:43] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: It's linux, anything is possible. Just because you can, doens't mean you should.
[20:30:51] <Roguish> good point.
[20:31:33] <Roguish> ok. you confirmed my thoughts. thanks again.
[20:31:39] <JymmmEMC> Besides that what you said you wanted to do. New system then copy over the files. Once that's done only one system to maintain.
[20:32:33] <Roguish> any opinion on a compact flash drive thru an sata adapter ? to have a diskless system.
[20:32:56] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Sure, if you want to rebuild your system in 180 days or less.
[20:33:11] <Roguish> 180 days?
[20:33:56] <Roguish> the good cf's. industrial grade with lots of read/writes.
[20:34:00] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: CF only has like 1,000,000 write cycles or less. You'll go thru that in swap and cache alone very quickly
[20:34:26] <JymmmEMC> CF != SSD
[20:34:34] <Roguish> non-journaling file.
[20:34:41] <JymmmEMC> doesn't matter
[20:34:51] <Roguish> yeah. ssd is getting more doable.
[20:34:55] <Roguish> $$$
[20:34:56] <JymmmEMC> The only way CF works is if you have a RO system
[20:35:07] <JymmmEMC> like a LiveCD
[20:35:28] <JymmmEMC> reliably that is
[20:35:37] <SWPadnos> Roguish, look at partimage
[20:36:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: That won't work for him. He has multiple partitions
[20:36:10] <SWPadnos> it's not really GUI, but it more or less does the work of ghost
[20:36:20] <Roguish> who's got an inexpensive ssd, approx 10g or so, just big enough for emc2 install on skinny ubuntu.
[20:36:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: partimage is NOT ghost
[20:36:23] <SWPadnos> sure, you can make a disk image or a partition image AFAIK
[20:36:26] <SWPadnos> I know that
[20:36:32] <SWPadnos> but it does a lot of the same work
[20:36:35] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I use partiamge daily, I know.
[20:36:58] <SWPadnos> since the target disk is larger, you can't directly use dd - the filesystem won't be quite right
[20:37:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: partimage doens't do MBR's
[20:37:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Yes, he can.
[20:37:16] <SWPadnos> (the master inodes will be expected to be in a different location I think)
[20:37:19] <SWPadnos> I know
[20:37:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: DD the old drive, then use parted to expanded the partition
[20:37:42] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking the best thing to do is to manually partition the new drive, then use partimage to move each partition separately
[20:37:50] <SWPadnos> ok, that could work :)
[20:38:19] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: No, he doens't have the knowledge to deal with the partitoin tables or MBR, it would be a good way for him to fuck up both systems
[20:38:33] <JymmmEMC> He wanted a GUI utili initially.
[20:38:57] <Roguish> hey fellas. don't fight over me.
[20:39:00] <JymmmEMC> Which implies lack of knowledge. Thus my suggestion of new install and mount old, or dd+parted.
[20:39:07] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Who's fighting?
[20:39:09] <Roguish> i know partitions, etc.
[20:39:11] <SWPadnos> well, some rudimentary teaching about the difference between /dev/disk_you_want_to_keep and /dev/disk_you're_OK_with_blowing_away would help :)
[20:39:15] <Roguish> just like gui's.
[20:39:52] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you forgot the ooops I typed the command wrong/you're fscked syndrom =)
[20:40:10] <SWPadnos> well, sure. we all konw taht oen :)
[20:40:19] <Roguish> i've f'd up many a disk learning. no biggy here. it's only a computer.
[20:40:38] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: You like gui's becasue of lack of knowlege, plain and simple =)
[20:40:58] <SWPadnos> cp $(all_necessary_file) /pathto/USB_stick
[20:41:01] <Roguish> also used a diskeditor to recover a supposedly 'unrecoveralble' NT boot drive.
[20:41:01] <SWPadnos> then fdisk away ;)
[20:41:10] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: That is not a insult to you, just an observation ove the years of doing this crap =)
[20:41:22] <Roguish> bit bashing. not insult taken at all.
[20:42:15] <Roguish> i'll give it all a shot.
[20:42:17] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: I do this crap for a living, those are jsut the most straight forward methods do to what you want in the minimal amount of headaches.
[20:42:51] <JymmmEMC> It might be a lot of work, but I go by the asprin/tequilia factor
[20:43:04] <Roguish> you're right. i was hoping there might be some cool groovy gui that i could just click and clack.
[20:43:24] <JymmmEMC> KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid, why overthink things?
[20:43:34] <Roguish> guess not. that's ok. i'll get the tequilia out before i start.
[20:43:43] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: That's called windows
[20:44:01] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Here's the thing, you won't need it =)
[20:44:11] <JymmmEMC> For soem that could be a good/bad thing =)
[20:44:29] <Roguish> let's not get into that windows thing.
[20:44:47] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: So, are you going to do a new install?
[20:45:12] <Roguish> yeah, seems like the most straight forward, and painless.
[20:46:01] <Roguish> gotta change my 5I20 over to the new hostmod driver.
[20:46:11] <Roguish> oh, joy.
[20:46:22] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Ok, just in case... grab http://sysresccd.org/ verify MD5, and burn to cd at the SLOWEST speed you can (4x), then verify you can boot from it. It'll be your CYA just in case.
[20:46:37] <JymmmEMC> And dont get fancy
[20:47:02] <Roguish> ok. thanks. will do.
[20:47:10] <JymmmEMC> DO IT NOW BITCH!
[20:47:30] <JymmmEMC> It's always a good tool to have around
[20:48:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Hey, you still liking the drobo?
[20:48:16] <Roguish> i know. get it right so i don't have to bug any more, at least on this topic.
[20:48:32] <Roguish> thanks all.
[20:48:34] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: You're not bugging at all.
[20:48:40] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, not sure, I haven't looked at them in a while
[20:49:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: They have v2 now, suppose to be faster, and now has FW, but heard their NAS attachment thruput is shit.
[20:50:05] <SWPadnos> could be - I don't think I've looked at their stuff at all since MacWorld last year (Which was early in 2008, one of the times I was in SJC before the ESC conference)
[20:50:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: IF you get one, get their extended warranty too, it includes advanced replacement.
[20:50:29] <SWPadnos> so they send you a new one before the old one breaks? :)
[20:50:35] <JymmmEMC> yep
[20:50:52] <SWPadnos> oh nice - looks like they have an 8-drive one now
[20:51:58] <JymmmEMC> If those assholes used an external PS for the 6bay unit, I'LL BE SO PISSED!!!!!!!!!
[20:52:19] <SWPadnos> you mean the 4 bay?
[20:52:25] <SWPadnos> or the 8 (I don't see a 6)
[20:52:28] <JymmmEMC> 8 bay
[20:53:27] <SWPadnos> npe, it's got an IEC jack on the back
[20:53:29] <SWPadnos> nope
[20:53:37] <JymmmEMC> thank gawd!!!
[20:53:44] <SWPadnos> http://www.drobo.com/products/360/drobopro/index.php
[20:54:43] <SWPadnos> anyway, back to work for me. see you
[20:55:51] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: DUDE $2200 with 8x1GB -or- $3600 8x2TB HAWT DAMN!!!!
[22:55:39] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/qNbOlc.jpg
[23:17:50] <hugomatic1> Is there any documentation about making a custom EMC live CD?
[23:18:14] <cradek> there is lots of documentation about making a custom Ubuntu live CD
[23:18:34] <cradek> the difference is only the choice of a couple packages
[23:19:13] <hugomatic1> thanks for the info... I want to make a cd with EMC plus my gcode generators
[23:20:34] <hugomatic1> its for a friend... but I don't know what to do with the iso from the site
[23:21:03] <cradek> I suggest packaging your programs and giving him that package to install after installing the CD.
[23:23:11] <hugomatic1> that would work, but It wouldn't be as nice.
[23:23:49] <cradek> tradeoff: nice for him <=> pain in the butt for you
[23:23:50] <hugomatic1> I'm not trying to fork or rebrand emc or anything, by the way
[23:24:37] <hugomatic1> I tried to add my stuff to emc and give you the pain in the butt, but it didn't work
[23:24:46] <hugomatic1> either ;-)
[23:24:54] <BigJohnT> skunkworks: got trusses :)
[23:25:02] <cradek> did we miss something you contributed? sorry if I don't remember.
[23:25:14] <hugomatic1> hugomatic.ca
[23:25:46] <hugomatic1> it's a set of python gcode generators that 'also' work on the web
[23:26:30] <hugomatic1> in the current version, you need to select index.py manually
[23:27:39] <cradek> I like the ticktacktoe board!
[23:27:59] <hugomatic1> thanks :-)
[23:28:32] <hugomatic1> you can try it for yourself, and make a big one if you like
[23:29:22] <hugomatic1> cradek: I would love to make a web version of your image-to-gcode
[23:29:30] <BigJohnT> well I'm back to where I can run the plasma table with the new compressor and dryer :)
[23:29:57] <hugomatic1> with your permission
[23:30:01] <cradek> jepler wrote most of the current image-to-gcode that comes with emc
[23:30:34] <hugomatic1> sorry for the confusion. still, a great program
[23:30:41] <cradek> just checked - it's GPL-2-or-later
[23:30:55] <cradek> so you can certainly webify it
[23:30:57] <hugomatic1> I'm not sure whats best
[23:31:04] <cradek> I'm not either
[23:31:42] <cradek> but if you webify it and put your modified source on the same page, you couldn't go wrong
[23:32:05] <cradek> just leave it 2-or-later, I mean
[23:32:15] <hugomatic1> ok
[23:32:54] <cradek> I don't think its gcode is very emc-specific -- I think a lot of people could use it, even if not using emc
[23:33:38] <hugomatic1> Its one of the reason I webified my stuff... for the poor people out there without acccess to emc
[23:34:11] <cradek> I think that's cool.
[23:34:40] <hugomatic1> But I use the 'local' version from emc more than the web stuff...
[23:35:29] <hugomatic1> hence, a live cd with the files in the emc2/nc_files folder
[23:36:50] <hugomatic1> I would be happy to maintain a version for emc, if you guys like it
[23:37:15] <cradek> that folder is created only when you pick the first configuration after install - so it's not as easy as dropping the files somewhere on the cd.
[23:37:38] <cradek> in truth I'm not entirely sure the best way for you to accomplish what you want.
[23:38:22] <cradek> I wish we had a good way of handling all these wizards. it ought to be possible to package them up and have them work nicely with EMC
[23:38:24] <hugomatic1> I looked at creating deb files, too... but I don't think its the right way either
[23:38:59] <cradek> a deb has got to be part of the answer - everything that ends up installed is in debs.
[23:39:17] <JymmmEMC> MAybe alex can give soem input
[23:39:33] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: you asleep yet?
[23:39:53] <JymmmEMC> these aren't GUI are they?
[23:40:27] <hugomatic1> I'm not sure what you mean...
[23:40:49] <hugomatic1> theyre TkInter or webforms... very simple
[23:40:50] <JymmmEMC> The non-web versions... are they shell or GUI ?
[23:40:56] <cradek> I've stuck this on the list of things we want to discuss at fest: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Fest_2009
[23:41:19] <cradek> I can envision an emc2-wizards package that somehow interoperates
[23:41:20] <hugomatic1> they're also shell, if you provide paramters to the cmd line
[23:42:01] <cradek> I even have one that I'd probably polish up and add (lathe boring)
[23:43:02] <hugomatic1> great... I would propbably use it
[23:43:47] <JymmmEMC> Um, why not just use a mini httpd?
[23:44:14] <hugomatic1> you can do it... its httpd.py in the web directory
[23:44:39] <hugomatic1> But running the python has its advantages, when you are debugging
[23:46:09] <cradek> bbl
[23:47:20] <hugomatic1> JymmmEMC: are you going to the fest?
[23:55:15] <JymmmEMC> hugomatic1: afraid not
[23:55:59] <hugomatic1> I won't be able to make either :-(