#emc | Logs for 2009-04-26

[00:39:11] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/ZbtrhZ.jpg
[01:28:52] <ren_encee> ren_encee is now known as renesis
[02:16:23] <jmkasunich> dang, I need chip shields
[02:16:52] <jmkasunich> running the K-Tool facemill at something close to rated speed, and about half of rated feed, chips everywhere
[02:16:53] <Martyn> jmkasunich : Or a great vaccuum system
[02:17:16] <Martyn> I added a high-flow vaccuum system next to the milling head on the tormach
[02:17:23] <Martyn> makes cleanup a snap
[02:17:28] <jmkasunich> it would need a nozzle that could wrap around the tool and clear all my clamps and such
[02:17:35] <Martyn> true
[02:17:49] <Martyn> I just made a soft hood with "fingers"
[02:17:56] <Martyn> similar to the one found on a shopbot
[02:18:25] <jmkasunich> my setup is probalby to awkward for that
[02:18:26] <Martyn> the fingers can get around the clamps, and the skirt is made of easily replaceable abs plastic sheeting
[02:18:35] <Martyn> might be.
[02:18:49] <Martyn> Still, I've had mine on for three days now, and love it.
[02:19:13] <Martyn> Then again, I run a constant flow of coolant over anything I'm cutting, so a lot of the chips just flow down into the filter
[02:19:58] <jmkasunich> I can't use coolant (shoptask machine, it would wind up on the floor)
[02:20:13] <Martyn> That's a pity :(
[02:21:29] <jmkasunich> that cutter rocks
[02:22:02] <jmkasunich> I just took off about 0.080 of cast aluminum at 15 ipm, then made a 0.015 deep finish pass at 20 ipm
[02:27:04] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/carb-end-facing-2811.jpg
[02:27:10] <voxadam> * voxadam had never seen a Shoptask until a couple of minutes ago.
[02:27:21] <voxadam> It's a monstrosity.
[02:27:27] <jmkasunich> yeah, it is
[02:27:35] <voxadam> Or at least it looks like one.
[02:27:46] <jmkasunich> not a bad lathe, so-so as a mill
[02:27:55] <voxadam> Frankenmachine.
[02:28:06] <jmkasunich> it isn't very rigid in mill mode, but if you use carbide cutters and keeps speeds up, it can do well
[02:28:21] <jmkasunich> mine has earned me at least 10x what I paid for it, so I can't complain
[02:28:51] <voxadam> Can't argue with results.
[02:29:08] <jmkasunich> the main problem with it as a mill is the lack of Z travel
[02:29:16] <jmkasunich> 3.3" of travel
[02:29:26] <jmkasunich> that's why my work is sitting up on blocks all the time
[02:29:32] <voxadam> Woah.
[02:31:02] <Martyn> 3-in-1's are never terrific at everything
[02:31:07] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/spindle-encoder-bracket-01-07-08.html
[02:31:13] <jmkasunich> another typical setup ^^^
[02:31:32] <jmkasunich> the only thing they are good at is fitting in cramped basements
[02:31:44] <jmkasunich> a bport and a decent lathe would never make it down the steps
[02:33:16] <voxadam> Point well taken. Disassembling and reassembling a bport is a royal pain.
[02:33:32] <jmkasunich> even disassembled, what does the base casting weigh?
[02:33:46] <jmkasunich> the whole shoptask is about 700 lbs, I took it apart to get it downstairs
[02:33:52] <jmkasunich> probably the biggest piece was 300
[02:33:59] <voxadam> Not bad.
[02:34:00] <Martyn> 300-400 for the base casting
[02:34:10] <jmkasunich> for a bridgeport? you gotta be kidding
[02:34:22] <Martyn> no, the shoptask...
[02:34:45] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:34:55] <Martyn> Bridgeport is a multiple of that :)
[02:35:16] <voxadam> Not something I'd like to be lugging down a set of stairs.
[02:35:17] <jmkasunich> the base casting on my Van Norman #12 (smaller than a bport) was 723lbs
[02:35:33] <jmkasunich> that machine lives in the garage (where I fight a battle against rust)
[02:35:34] <tomp> tomp is now known as tomp3
[02:39:16] <Martyn> I wouldn't want to either.
[02:39:23] <Martyn> It's why I chose to buy a used tormach.
[02:39:42] <jmkasunich> they seem like nice machines
[02:39:53] <jmkasunich> out of my price range tho
[02:40:48] <Martyn> You can occasionally find them in the 6000->8000 range
[02:41:04] <Martyn> The one I bought was being used as a supplemental machine next to a vmc
[02:41:12] <Martyn> to help speed up process
[02:41:17] <tomp3> how to make a cheap 'knee' for shoptask? , naw, i bet 4 pcs 1-2-3 blox are as good as anything
[02:41:36] <jmkasunich> I just recently got a pair of 2-4-6 blocks, they help a lot
[02:41:54] <jmkasunich> but it can still be tricky, when a job uses one short tool and one long one
[02:43:01] <tomp3> the arbor extension that came with my shoptask just exaggerated the runout
[02:43:17] <jmkasunich> and eliminated whatever little rigidity the millhead has
[02:43:21] <jmkasunich> I've never ever used that thing
[02:43:39] <jmkasunich> I bring the work to the spindle, not the other way around
[02:43:49] <tomp3> yep, more solid
[03:08:22] <tomp3> i might look at this (mini gantry) X-200mm Y-150mm Z-60mm $468 USD (15800NTD) http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?1108081559267
[03:08:37] <tomp3> just to get some test unit thats more portable than the shoptask
[03:15:31] <jmkasunich> broken link (displays some error message in chinese)
[03:28:33] <tomp3> hmm same here, try this now http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?11090423859788
[03:29:04] <voxadam> how much is that in USD?
[03:30:27] <voxadam> Ah... $500.
[03:32:43] <tomp3> i see theyre on usa ebay too, for 500 but that doesnt include shipping of 11kg ( im leaving taiwan soon, and they're near the airport)
[03:32:44] <jmkasunich> tomp3: looks flimsy
[03:32:59] <jmkasunich> 11kg? lol - very very flimsy
[03:33:04] <tomp3> yeah? i thought thos thompsons would be ok, and plate alum sides
[03:33:28] <jmkasunich> sorry, I misunderstood your original statement
[03:33:39] <voxadam> Overpriced.
[03:34:01] <jmkasunich> I thought you were looking at something that was similar in capabilities to the shoptask, only smaller
[03:35:18] <jmkasunich> I can't take seriously any gantry mill with side uprights that are cut out of a single flat plate
[03:35:34] <jmkasunich> those flats are weak against Y axis forces
[03:36:16] <tomp3> i was comparing it to zenbot
[03:36:52] <jmkasunich> I see
[03:48:05] <cradek> jmkasunich: does the carbide let you get up above the resonance of the machine?
[03:50:12] <jmkasunich> I think so
[03:50:46] <jmkasunich> maybe not above resonance, but fast enough that the weight of the head absorbs the forces, rather than relying only on the stiffness of the column
[03:51:04] <jmkasunich> I need to set up the webcam and make a vid tomorrow
[03:51:09] <cradek> like a wood router I guess
[03:51:13] <cradek> yeah I'd like to see that
[03:51:29] <jmkasunich> I'm doing the carb end (face, drill, and chamfer) in less than 5 minutes, including tool changes and part load/unload
[03:51:45] <jmkasunich> the facing is less than 1 minute of spindle-on time
[03:51:57] <jmkasunich> the chips they do fly ;-)
[03:52:03] <cradek> neat. you will be done in no time.
[03:52:32] <jmkasunich> 52 x 5 minutes still = the better part of 5 hours, and that is just for the carb end
[03:52:49] <cradek> I thought it was 48 - they're breeding
[03:52:54] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:53:17] <jmkasunich> the foundry casts them 6 at a time, I guess they did 9 flasks instead of 8, probably in case of oopses
[03:53:52] <jmkasunich> I hope I don't kill the motor start caps
[03:53:53] <cradek> they look like good castings.
[03:54:06] <jmkasunich> 5 minutes per part = 12 per hour = 24 starts per hour
[03:54:17] <jmkasunich> cheap-ass chinese caps don't like that much
[03:54:36] <jmkasunich> they are nice castings
[03:54:59] <jmkasunich> the chips break nicely - I don't have to peck or anything for the drilling
[03:55:06] <jmkasunich> chips just come flying out of the hole
[03:55:22] <cradek> hss drill?
[03:55:28] <jmkasunich> I'm feeding at 6ipm for the drilling, just over 0.001 per flute
[03:55:33] <jmkasunich> no, carbide drill-mill
[03:55:37] <cradek> ah, right
[03:55:53] <cradek> I think castings can dull HSS - embedded sand?
[03:56:04] <jmkasunich> and high silicon content
[03:56:29] <jmkasunich> I'll have to see what the inserts on the facemill look like after the job is done
[03:56:43] <jmkasunich> that thing has $26 worth of inserts in it (but each insert can be indexed 8 times)
[03:56:56] <cradek> ha, that's nothin'
[03:57:26] <cradek> I bet mine has >$100 (indexable only twice)
[03:57:34] <cradek> worse design I guess
[03:57:42] <jmkasunich> what size?
[03:57:58] <jmkasunich> this one is only 1.5" OD, and the actual flat face is 1.125"
[03:58:14] <cradek> 2.75?
[03:58:20] <cradek> 2.5? I don't remember
[03:58:30] <cradek> pretty big (8 inserts)
[04:00:17] <jmkasunich> I just took a pic of the surface finish...
[04:05:20] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/carb-end-machined-2814.jpg
[04:05:41] <jmkasunich> the pile: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/manifolds-before-2812.jpg
[04:06:52] <cradek> nice
[04:07:19] <cradek> is that flat enough?
[04:07:25] <JymmmEMC> wth kinda manifolds are those?
[04:07:48] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: for one-cylinder minibike engines
[04:07:59] <JymmmEMC> AH! okey =)
[04:08:18] <jmkasunich> cradek: it's pretty darned flat - the "lines" aren't as deep as they look
[04:08:38] <JymmmEMC> I thought the other end "stack bolted" together! lol
[04:08:58] <jmkasunich> if anything, the lines will just give the gasket something to bite into
[04:09:12] <JymmmEMC> gorilla snot
[04:09:23] <JymmmEMC> oh, wiat. nm
[04:10:19] <JymmmEMC> Gorilla snot goes on the cover gaskets =)
[04:11:12] <JymmmEMC> Gorilla Snot --> http://www.drillspot.com/products/331760/3M_-_Adhesives_847_Gasket_Adhesive
[04:11:20] <JymmmEMC> Great Stuff btw
[04:11:32] <cradek> goodnight, folks
[04:11:40] <JymmmEMC> Night
[04:11:41] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:11:49] <jmkasunich> sounds like a good idea actually
[07:15:38] <maddash> heh, it worked
[07:16:43] <NintendoDS> hi maddash
[07:16:53] <maddash> hey NintendoDS
[07:17:02] <maddash> sweet
[07:17:34] <maddash> i got my uc stove controller working today
[07:17:50] <NintendoDS> cool
[07:18:23] <maddash> how's the girlfriend?
[07:18:44] <NintendoDS> what girlfriend?
[07:18:50] <maddash> lisa
[07:19:25] <NintendoDS> oh
[07:19:25] <NintendoDS> still persistently stalking me
[07:19:38] <maddash> i see
[07:19:50] <maddash> did you tell her?
[11:50:33] <evo4wrx> hey any developers online?
[11:51:20] <alex_joni> hardly :)
[11:53:25] <alex_joni> evo4wrx: but it's always best to just ask a question, then wait for someone to answer it
[11:53:57] <evo4wrx> i thought as much.....
[11:54:05] <evo4wrx> bit of a time difference toos ince im in australia
[11:57:28] <alex_joni> evo4wrx: anything specific you had in mind?
[11:58:33] <alex_joni> bbl.. lunch here
[12:12:22] <evo4wrx> building a larger type lathe...well turn mill to be more specific.....after a developer to code me up some hobbing specific apps or macros
[12:52:07] <BigJohnT> what is a turn mill
[12:56:58] <evo4wrx> 4 axis lathe
[12:58:33] <BigJohnT> guess I've never seen one before... sounds neat
[12:59:06] <evo4wrx> yea
[12:59:39] <evo4wrx> pretty much a 4 axis mill...except the rotary axis is a spindle capable of some decent rpm
[12:59:50] <evo4wrx> that way you can use turning cutters
[13:00:28] <BigJohnT> cool
[14:47:43] <BigJohnT> does the LiveCD create a dual boot if you want it?
[14:48:04] <BigJohnT> with windoz
[14:49:47] <SWPLinux> I suspect it can, since the stock liveCD can do that
[14:50:26] <alex_joni> sure it does
[14:50:36] <alex_joni> that's the way I don't run it ;)
[15:01:49] <skunkworks> quite a few people making their own simple h-bridge. http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25929&page=25
[15:01:53] <skunkworks> pretty cool
[15:02:15] <skunkworks> their own designs.
[15:03:13] <skunkworks> This guy is reading encoders and outputting pwm from the printer port
[15:04:11] <BigJohnT> yea, I don't want no stinking windoz on my linux computers :)
[15:06:22] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: the forum has been busy today :)
[15:07:44] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT heads out to do yard work...
[17:31:31] <alSMT_> is there a way to force Tkemc to display active text plus 1 or the next line to be executed?
[17:51:05] <dmess> hi all
[18:05:22] <BigJohnT> nap time here
[19:42:11] <gene> Howdy guys, that bad penny from WV is back!
[19:44:17] <gene> Got an acme screw question. My z drive has 2 bronze nuts, about 3.5" apart, for backlash takeup.
[19:45:05] <gene> Backlash is a little under 0.001" now. But its shimmying gently on the down stroke at aboutr 9"/min
[19:45:48] <gene> lub is stp at the instant, and grabbing the screw with my hand doesn't seem to effect the shimmy.
[19:45:54] <gene> Ideas anyone?
[19:46:46] <archivist> "shimmy" oscillation back and forth ?
[19:47:16] <gene> something like that, a low level vibration at about 25hz I'd guess
[19:48:07] <gene> A lighter lube, once it has a chance to work into things does make it worse.
[19:49:48] <archivist> my first thoughts are adjust pid loop or add some deadband compensation
[19:50:01] <archivist> assuming servo?
[19:51:06] <gene> It doesn't seem to effect the work in progress, no, steppers, 425 on that axis, geared down 17/42, 10tpi 1/2" screw
[19:51:45] <pjm__> archivist presumably u didnt go to the RAL uWave meeting today?
[19:52:03] <gene> work in progress is a 2x6 with 144 3/4" deep, 1/2 diameter holes, for a cartridge loading block.
[19:52:09] <archivist> pjm__, nope
[19:52:30] <gene> So its not exactly a fawny auction item. :)
[19:52:41] <gene> So its not exactly a fawncy auction item. :)
[19:55:21] <archivist> gene, if stepper then resonance /noise while moving is not uncommon, move at a rate where the noise is least, make sure the drive has no play
[19:58:00] <gene> I have some of the dampers similar to the ones Jeff at xylotex put on his mill, they work sweet. I can actually see the screw vibrating about 5 thou or so.
[19:59:08] <gene> You can see those at <http://gene.home.linux.net/gene/emc>
[19:59:35] <gene> You can see those at correction, <http://gene.home.linux.net:85/gene/emc>
[20:02:36] <archivist> gene.home.linux.net could not be found. Please check the name and try again.
[20:02:49] <archivist> dns error
[20:03:46] <gene> damn "homelinux", no dot, I can't type obviously
[20:07:18] <gene> this should be correct, you can see those at <http://gene.homelinux.net:85/gene/emc>
[20:08:32] <archivist> can see pics now
[20:16:26] <gene> Good. The uplink bw ssucks tho. :(
[20:34:10] <gene> Nother q, about pass 's' params, in main: #39=600
[20:34:33] <gene> in call, 9th param is [#39]
[20:34:58] <gene> in loop: s#9, but gets a zero, what the heck?
[20:35:54] <jmkasunich> does the 8th parameter pass correctly?
[20:35:55] <gene> exact same syntax seem to work for the 'f' values...
[20:36:12] <jmkasunich> wait, what do you mean by "S" and "F" parameters?
[20:36:41] <gene> yes I believe so, that is S=spindle speed and f=machine speed
[20:36:51] <jmkasunich> there are only parameters
[20:36:57] <jmkasunich> #1, #2, #3, etc
[20:37:16] <jmkasunich> you can use them for anything: G0X#1 M3S#2 F#4
[20:37:47] <jmkasunich> if #9 is getting passed correctly, then it won't matter whether you are using it for S or F or anything lese
[20:37:59] <jmkasunich> and if it is NOT being passed correctly, it still won't matter
[20:38:18] <gene> I'm passing them in the call:, and copy paste ate me. 1st 3 calls don't get it, brb.
[20:41:09] <gene> Yup, fixed, I'll go quietly officer, just as soon as this job is done.
[20:41:58] <gene> and from the mailng list I've been given that s must be set on a previous line to take effect at the M3.
[20:42:50] <gene> So that is the way I'm going it, works fine. Drilling 144 1/2" holes in a short 2x6, for cartridge loading.
[20:44:10] <gene> I'm finding that a Forstner bit likes a decent feed rate, its running about 600 rpm, and 10"/min feed. Nice holes.
[20:49:21] <gene> darn, the spindle electronix just did an overcurrent shut down. Set it back to 800 I guess.
[21:24:12] <gene> nope, passed wrong argument, so it was turning about 25 rpm on pass 2, duh... :(
[21:34:25] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:55:51] <crice_> 1e353.646-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
[22:55:54] <crice_> 15:38 < gene_> hey guys, great if warm day here, but have a gcode problem
[22:58:39] <lerman> Can I help you?
[23:04:09] <crice_> I did not write that. I think I have a gremlin.
[23:14:37] <lerman> Ah. You accidentally pasted something that gene had written.
[23:33:33] <crice_> Yeah. I have my desk covered with pipe fittings. I am pluming the shop for air. I must have set something on the mouse.
[23:40:15] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/2UO0SKJy.jpg
[23:45:53] <crice_> Man Skunkworks! That is a big change from yesterday!
[23:47:25] <skunkworks> It is going well
[23:47:40] <skunkworks> trusses this next weekend.