#emc | Logs for 2009-04-19

[00:19:01] <toastydeath> back from paintball, i have a welt where no man should ever have a welt
[00:20:08] <alex_joni> good night all
[00:24:13] <tomp> gnite alex, sorry toasty, have mama kiss your booboo, might be fun
[00:24:23] <toastydeath> lol, awful
[00:24:43] <tomp> and its goodnite from me
[00:32:43] <dgarr> SWPadnos: could you pastebin "hal show" for the SpaceNavigator?, also which model is it? thanks
[00:33:12] <SWPadnos> I've put it away for now, remind me later (after I get back from my trip)
[00:33:24] <SWPadnos> which would mean the 27th or later :)
[00:35:18] <dmess> is there a # of guest limit to an irc channel??
[00:36:05] <SWPadnos> probably 2^31-1 or something
[00:36:39] <dmess> oh really.. so 180-200 should be no problem
[00:37:03] <SWPadnos> "/list #ubuntu" for a good time :)
[00:37:10] <SWPadnos> 1372 users right now
[00:37:56] <dgarr> ok, thanks
[00:38:32] <SWPadnos> dgarr, from memory, it had 3 axes with 4 items each, plus two buttons and the light
[00:39:47] <SWPadnos> there were count and position values for each axis, and they had names like input.0.rel-rx-counts and input.0.rel-x-counts
[00:40:03] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what the difference between "rel-rx" and "rel-x" is
[00:40:18] <SWPadnos> oh hmm. maybe I can pastebin it - it's still in the scrollback buffer
[00:41:41] <jepler> REL_RX and REL_X are two axis names that are reported by the linux input layer
[00:42:43] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.ca/1396143
[00:43:29] <dmess> whats the differance between a cat and a group??
[00:43:59] <SWPadnos> dmess, is that a joke/riddle?
[00:44:06] <dgarr> SWPadnos: thanks!
[00:44:10] <dmess> chat.. sorry
[00:44:12] <SWPadnos> sure
[00:44:55] <SWPadnos> jepler, I still don't know what the difference is ;)
[00:45:02] <SWPadnos> other than the 'r'
[00:45:05] <dmess> my wife want to host an anual general meeting on irc
[00:46:07] <SWPadnos> I don't know what a group is in that context
[00:46:29] <dmess> i guess thats the differance.. i have to add ppl to a group as opposed to them just joining the chat
[00:47:24] <dmess> so i guess im better with a chat.. only the live captioner gonna be typing anyway
[00:53:58] <jepler> SWPadnos: I don't think it means much. It just means your device has in its USB HID descriptor that there is a relative axis with 0x3 as its unique index. The HID standard says 0x3 is "RX", and 0x0 is "X".
[00:54:25] <jepler> but if you've got a bunch of doohickes on your device, and they don't really fit what the HID standard describes, you just pick a number and go with it
[00:54:30] <SWPadnos> ok. next time I'll look more closely at how the numbers track
[00:54:53] <SWPadnos> hmmm. OK, it's probably rotation X vs. movement in X
[00:55:10] <SWPadnos> it's a 6-axis device, you can rotate or push the knob in any direction
[00:55:59] <SWPadnos> I should have made a panel or something, since halscope needs care and feeding for scale/trigger ...
[01:11:59] <dareposte> hi all
[02:18:08] <JymmmEMC> Hey, this is pretty good, Runs on gasoline, LPG, or Natural gas... http://cgi.ebay.com/Honda-EU2000i-Inverter-Generator-w-Triple-Fuel-System_W0QQitemZ230337249416QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Generators?hash=item230337249416&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
[02:50:29] <JymmmEMC> My new boat... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/Mooney231/Misc/BassMan.jpg
[02:50:47] <JymmmEMC> My new camper... http://www.lilligren.com/Redneck/images/redneck_limo_camper.jpg
[04:39:11] <Martyn> Martyn is now known as Guest13559
[04:39:35] <Martyn-> Martyn- is now known as Martyn
[04:53:50] <tomp> several hours of scoping this board out, got down to just the cpu, the clock osc, and the power on reset.
[04:54:01] <tomp> cpu run was intermittant. scope showed it not running ( addr lines dead ), then it was running then not.??
[04:54:10] <tomp> if i push real hard on the probe it runs... awk!! bad socket!
[04:54:26] <tomp> damn i can hear & feel the chip pop out a hair after insertion! dang!
[04:54:28] <tomp> rip of these crap sockets and put on turned pins!
[04:54:47] <tomp> this is why surface mount is good
[04:54:54] <eric_unterhausen> no can do
[04:55:13] <eric_unterhausen> I'd hate to buy a bga with 1000 pins
[04:55:54] <tomp> ball seat more better than flat spring seat
[04:56:45] <eric_unterhausen> lots of consumer bga equipment that works if you push on the chip...
[04:56:59] <tomp> well i built a new board but can find all the phoenix connector for the big devices, dang sunday afternoo taicchung, i give up, will fix back in usa
[04:57:20] <Martyn> tpmp : This is why ZIF sockets and similar for TSOP components is also good
[04:57:37] <tomp> haha we used to repair amigas, the 1st step was to take it from the cusotmer, slam it on the counter, hand it back as]n say try it now ;)
[04:57:54] <tomp> 80+% success
[04:58:06] <tomp> just a bad quip socket
[04:58:35] <eric_unterhausen> I joined a cricket fantasy league
[04:58:41] <Martyn> I may not be a hard core techie, but I do know what causes the machines I fix to be broken in the first place
[04:59:00] <tomp> as in british baseball or small insect?
[04:59:12] <Martyn> ever since SMT started showing up in machines, and ROHS has caused the loss of lead in solder, vibration has become the #1 enemy
[04:59:22] <eric_unterhausen> cricket with balls :)
[04:59:27] <tomp> haha
[04:59:41] <tomp> hmm, so leaded solder 'gives' ?
[04:59:46] <Martyn> correct
[05:00:09] <Martyn> and ROHS compliant solder has a tendendy to 1) form nickel whiskers (BAD!) and 2) Crack .. (very very BAD)
[05:00:26] <tomp> ive noticed it's 'harder'
[05:00:38] <Martyn> I keep a little kit with lead-based solder and a portable butane soldering iron along with my circuit tester and logic probe
[05:01:11] <Martyn> it's amazing how many "logic board" failures come down to an SMT solid state capacitor having a cracked lead, or a single pin on a TSOP or QFP component having lifted
[05:01:25] <tomp> theres a special soft lo temp solder i use to take smt's off
[05:01:28] <Martyn> the nickel whiskers will become an issue in another 5-10 years
[05:01:37] <Martyn> the longest ones I've seen so far are still less than a 10th of a mm
[05:02:29] <Martyn> tomp : I just use copper desoldering ribbon, and a microvac along with a heat pad on the butane soldering iron
[05:02:45] <Martyn> I can take off and replace all but the tiniest capacitors and resistors. They don't tend to go bad though
[05:03:21] <tomp> is the vac device teflon or such?
[05:03:25] <Martyn> And when I redo TSOP or TQFP components, I take them completely off, then put them completely back. That way I can just bridge all the pins when putting them on, and do cleanup to free all the pins
[05:03:32] <Martyn> a perfect soldering job each time
[05:03:39] <Martyn> tomp : It's ceramic
[05:03:43] <tomp> ah
[05:03:50] <Martyn> Like I said, I'm no techie :)
[05:04:12] <Martyn> At least, not as good as some of the younger guys that work this field .. but I think I do pretty well for being a year short of 50
[05:04:26] <tomp> oh, ok (???) replacing smts gets you at least a junior woodchuck techie badge
[05:04:37] <Martyn> I think I've even almost figured out how to get this stupid ip webcam working.
[05:04:42] <tomp> i'm 60 this one, and i cant see some of this stuff
[05:05:05] <tomp> ah, i'm getting outta here, gnit all
[05:05:27] <Martyn> tomp : I know the feeling. I got my first pair of work bifocals recently, and I still have to use a jeweller's eyepiece to do some of this work
[05:05:31] <Martyn> night
[09:20:39] <assargadon_> assargadon_ is now known as assargadon
[10:14:56] <tomp> http://www.plt.rwth-aachen.de/acplt_technologien/acpltks/ Open Source Communication System for Process Control from Aachen Technical University
[10:15:45] <tomp> in english http://www.plt.rwth-aachen.de/acplt_technologies/acpltks/?id=159&L=1
[12:49:41] <ashaw> can you recomend a good motherboard for EMC?
[12:51:00] <Valen> I'm interested in the answer too
[12:51:09] <Valen> there are some results in the wiki?
[13:09:11] <alex_joni> yes
[13:09:28] <ashaw> can you recomend a good motherboard for EMC?
[13:09:40] <ashaw> will you recomend a good motherboard for EMC?
[13:12:19] <ashaw> is the D945GCLF2D ok?
[13:12:24] <BigJohnT> can you describe "good for ECM"
[13:12:49] <BigJohnT> I have 4 computers running EMC and to me they are all good
[13:13:09] <ashaw> will work well with soft microstepping, and a 5i23 board.
[13:13:54] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[13:13:59] <BigJohnT> I think that is two different things software step generation and a 5i23 you would not do both I don't think
[13:14:04] <alex_joni> ashaw: for a 5i23 most anything would be ok
[13:14:15] <ashaw> cool.
[13:14:35] <ashaw> i thought the 5i23 used soft stepping.
[13:14:35] <alex_joni> ashaw: well something that doesn't have serious RT issues
[13:14:45] <ashaw> silly me
[13:14:47] <BigJohnT> no
[13:14:56] <alex_joni> no, the 5i23 uses stepgens embedded in the FPGA
[13:14:58] <ashaw> D945GCLF2D looks cool on that list.
[13:15:09] <ashaw> yep.
[13:15:26] <alex_joni> ashaw: the D102GGC2 you don't want for example
[13:15:41] <alex_joni> 155ms delays can hurt even if you're using a 5i23 + stepgens
[13:15:44] <ashaw> why?
[13:16:15] <ashaw> D945GCLF2 150ms delay?
[13:16:23] <alex_joni> because the servo thread runs once every 1 msec
[13:16:42] <alex_joni> ashaw: I said D102GGC2, not D945GCLF2
[13:16:59] <alex_joni> bottom of that page
[13:17:00] <ashaw> i am looking at the D945GCLF2.
[13:17:25] <alex_joni> that one looks ok (judging by that table)
[13:17:34] <alex_joni> but even so, latency doesn't depend only on the motherboard
[13:17:46] <ashaw> what else?
[13:17:48] <alex_joni> you can stick a graphics card in it, which messes realtime
[13:18:01] <alex_joni> or get another revision with some changed chips on it
[13:18:09] <ashaw> not in that one.
[13:18:13] <alex_joni> (unlikely but possible)
[13:18:20] <alex_joni> or a networks card
[13:18:22] <alex_joni> or whatever
[13:18:28] <ashaw> i mean to graphics.
[13:18:35] <ashaw> only one PCI slot
[13:18:44] <alex_joni> anyways, what I'm saying is that you can never be 100% certain it's perfect
[13:18:52] <alex_joni> it's best to try it out, and jugde for yourself
[13:19:08] <ashaw> undersood.
[13:19:10] <alex_joni> if you're thinking about buying a PC, grab a LiveCD and go to the store to try it out
[13:19:31] <BigJohnT> are you planning on adding extra programming to the fpga on the 5i23?
[13:19:33] <ashaw> building from components.
[13:19:35] <alex_joni> if you're ordering online, that judging by a page like that is your best bet :)
[13:19:43] <alex_joni> s/that/then/
[13:22:01] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT wonders why you would pick a 5i23 over a 5i20
[13:23:09] <alex_joni> 400k FPGA vs. 200k FPGA
[13:23:17] <alex_joni> although I bet it wouldn't matter in ashaw's case
[13:23:33] <BigJohnT> you have to add programming to it to need it
[13:23:47] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: maybe add lots of stepgens :)
[13:23:50] <ashaw> 6 axis CNC. servo.
[13:24:27] <alex_joni> ashaw: the 5i20 is probably fine for that too
[13:24:47] <ashaw> also, might like to play with the fpga on it.
[13:25:14] <ashaw> also for future proofing. only $30 extra
[13:25:26] <ashaw> also smaller
[13:25:28] <BigJohnT> if you needed 8 stepgens, 8 pwm's, and 8 encoders you need the 5i23
[13:26:08] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT looks at the chart in the manual
[13:30:28] <alex_joni> ashaw: he means this one http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//drivers_hostmot2.html#r1_8
[13:31:13] <BigJohnT> don't you normally use the pwm + encoder for servos?
[13:31:45] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: yes you do
[13:31:50] <ashaw> that is what i thought.
[13:31:51] <alex_joni> no stepgens though
[13:31:58] <alex_joni> stepgens for steppers
[13:32:03] <ashaw> yep.
[13:34:22] <alex_joni> bbl
[13:35:06] <ashaw> bbl?
[14:12:52] <crice> BigJohnT: What year is it?
[14:14:36] <crice> It looks like you Email thinks it is 2004
[14:15:10] <BigJohnT> LOL I had to spin it back to use an old program
[14:15:22] <BigJohnT> forgot to wind it back up
[14:16:23] <crice> Makes sense. My reader said that there was an unread message. I had to scroll back quite a distance to find it.
[14:16:56] <BigJohnT> sorry about that
[14:17:25] <crice> np. Thought it was funny.
[14:17:51] <SWPadnos> awww. now there won't be anything to talk about on the user list
[14:18:41] <BigJohnT> hope I didn't open up a time warp worm hole...
[14:18:59] <SWPadnos> some of us with advanced threading mail readers didn't even notice the problem :)
[14:21:15] <BMG> logger_emc bookmark please
[14:21:33] <SWPadnos> I think you need a colon or comma after "logger_emc"
[14:21:41] <SWPadnos> logger_emc, bookmark
[14:21:41] <SWPadnos> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-04-19.txt
[14:21:47] <crice> SWPadnos: You mean you don't use the elm client?
[14:21:49] <BMG> Thanks SWP
[14:21:53] <SWPadnos> sure
[14:22:11] <SWPadnos> crice, not since college
[14:22:21] <crice> grin
[14:22:21] <SWPadnos> maybe not even then, I might have been using pine
[14:22:52] <SWPadnos> on the hopping fast Personal Iris computers with - get this - 25 MHz CPUs !!
[14:23:18] <crice> The Glory Days!
[14:23:27] <SWPadnos> a couple in the back even had 33 MHz CPUs - those were always hard to get
[14:23:52] <Valen> lol I'm looking at phones now with 500Mhz cpus
[14:23:58] <SWPadnos> too slow ;)
[14:24:23] <SWPadnos> the Irises did have good graphics though, 1280x1024, 100 bits per pixel
[14:24:33] <Valen> mmmmm shiny
[14:24:42] <SWPadnos> yep
[14:25:02] <SWPadnos> 2x 24-bit pixels+24-bit depth, plus 2 bits of overlay and 2 bits of underlay
[14:25:32] <Valen> My video card has 800Mb of ram, not sure what that works out at per pixel ;->
[14:25:46] <SWPadnos> loads ;)
[14:25:50] <crice> You guys were lucky. I only had punch cards and pen plotters.
[14:25:52] <SWPadnos> but it's not a direct mapping
[14:25:52] <Valen> metrically speaking ;->
[14:26:16] <Valen> I'm not sure how big the actual frame buffer is
[14:26:31] <Valen> good enough for 2x 1080P screens i think
[14:26:32] <SWPadnos> depends on the resolution you choose
[14:26:48] <Valen> I believe the frame buffer memory is seperate from main memory
[14:26:49] <SWPadnos> but since you can probably drive dual monitors at 2560x1600 each, that's a lot of pixels
[14:26:59] <SWPadnos> no, probably not
[14:27:10] <SWPadnos> assuming you mean "main video card memory"
[14:27:14] <Valen> yah
[14:27:26] <Valen> I figured it might be to avoid any latency issues when tracing a frame
[14:28:53] <SWPadnos> I think that texture manipulation and pixel plotting is granular enough that they can interleave the framebuffer reads pretty well
[14:29:03] <Valen> could be
[14:29:07] <SWPadnos> it probably reads an entire line into the CRTC (or equivalent)
[14:29:18] <SWPadnos> then shifts it out while other things are happening
[14:29:50] <SWPadnos> what card do you have anyway? The closest to 800M I know of are 768M or 896M :)
[14:29:58] <Valen> i was rounding
[14:30:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:30:08] <Valen> i have nfi how much memory is in this thing
[14:30:18] <SWPadnos> GTX260?
[14:30:31] <Valen> 8800GTX
[14:30:36] <SWPadnos> ah
[14:30:48] <SWPadnos> 768M probably
[14:30:59] <Valen> 512 aparently
[14:31:08] <SWPadnos> oh. wimpy
[14:31:10] <SWPadnos> :)
[14:31:14] <Valen> ;-P
[14:31:19] <ashaw> did they even make the 8800 in 512?
[14:31:30] <Valen> well i have one in my computer
[14:31:35] <SWPadnos> it's got a 384 bit bus, so it should be 384 or 768M
[14:31:39] <Valen> nvidia-settings
[14:31:49] <ashaw> yes, that is what i thought
[14:32:08] <Valen> Graphics Processor: GeForce 8800 GT
[14:32:11] <SWPadnos> but whatever, it's still more than a supercomputer had 20 years ago
[14:32:17] <Valen> VBIOS Version:
[14:32:18] <SWPadnos> oh, GT, not GTX
[14:32:25] <Valen> Memory: 512 MB
[14:32:36] <SWPadnos> the GTX is different
[14:32:50] <Valen> hmmm this is somewhat different to what i thaught it was
[14:32:56] <Valen> Bus Type: PCI Express 4X
[14:33:00] <SWPadnos> somebody swapped it on you
[14:33:10] <SWPadnos> got kids? (who play video games...)
[14:33:10] <Valen> hmmm
[14:33:16] <Valen> I have a missus
[14:33:18] <SWPadnos> :)
[14:33:22] <Valen> who also has an 8800
[14:33:35] <Valen> I was pretty sure i got the slightly upgraded one
[14:34:10] <ashaw> yes the GT makes sence
[14:34:24] <Valen> eh it plays urban terror ok
[14:34:33] <Valen> what phones are you guys using?
[14:34:52] <Valen> looking at new phones for myself and my dad
[14:35:21] <ashaw> i have an iPhone
[14:35:27] <SWPadnos> I've been looking for a new one lately. I've got a Motorola Razr V3c at the moment
[14:35:49] <crice> iPhone here too.
[14:35:49] <Valen> I like the idea of the iPhone, but i hate all the limits of the app store
[14:35:56] <ashaw> iPhone 3g, it is ok.
[14:36:03] <ashaw> jailbreak it.
[14:36:03] <Valen> I'd really like an android based phone
[14:36:10] <SWPadnos> I'm looking to get something that runs on Linux though, so some HTC thing, or the OpenMoko might be it for me
[14:36:15] <Valen> but they don't have a GPS
[14:36:18] <ashaw> it is not that hard.
[14:36:26] <Valen> well they have one but not an offline GPS
[14:36:37] <SWPadnos> do you need 3g data?
[14:36:41] <Valen> openmoko is pretty limited hardware wise
[14:36:44] <Valen> not really
[14:37:03] <Valen> I'm currently looking at a HTC touch pro for me
[14:37:10] <Valen> qwerty keyboard, windows mobile
[14:37:15] <SWPadnos> yep, those are probably good
[14:37:18] <ashaw> wimo?
[14:37:20] <SWPadnos> though I hate WinMo
[14:37:32] <Valen> same, but at least you can do stuff with it
[14:37:44] <SWPadnos> I have an OpenMoko NEO1973, which I'm about to trade in for a FreeRunner
[14:37:44] <ashaw> if you want a portable linux device, have you seen the pandora?
[14:37:49] <SWPadnos> I'll see how well it works
[14:38:05] <Valen> how well does the openmoko one work?
[14:38:27] <SWPadnos> well, I haven't been able to test out the phone functions, since this one doesn't work in the US :)
[14:38:31] <Valen> lol
[14:38:38] <SWPadnos> the screen is pehnomenal
[14:38:49] <SWPadnos> it's full VGA, 640x480
[14:39:35] <SWPadnos> some time soon, I'll change to a provider that uses GSM, so I'll actually be able to see how well the thing works
[14:39:41] <Valen> they fix the 1 day battery life issue?
[14:39:51] <SWPadnos> dunno, I don't carry it around
[14:39:57] <SWPadnos> I think it's been improved though
[14:40:03] <SWPadnos> and you can run android on it
[14:40:08] <SWPadnos> or debian
[14:40:17] <Valen> I'd like debian ;->
[14:40:17] <SWPadnos> or a couple of more specific distros
[14:40:37] <Valen> still no linux mapping software though
[14:40:40] <Valen> think tomtom
[14:40:53] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian
[14:41:12] <SWPadnos> well, take a look at dash, maybe some of that code can be used on the stock openmoko
[14:41:26] <SWPadnos> http://www.dash.net/
[14:41:47] <Valen> theres andnav for android based phones but it uses openstreetmap whilst nifty it doesn't look good enough for "mission critical" navigation in australia yet
[14:42:17] <Valen> I want one that works completley off line
[14:42:27] <SWPadnos> tomtom is it then
[14:42:28] <Valen> no internet use at all, its still stupidly expensive here
[14:42:39] <Valen> no tomtom for anything other than wimo or symbian
[14:42:40] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I suppose I should start packing. bbl
[14:42:42] <Valen> that i have seen
[14:43:53] <SWPadnos> wow: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858194046
[14:44:01] <SWPadnos> Go720, $180
[14:57:50] <tomp> if #100 = 10, and i want to move to -10, how do i say g1 X-#100 w/o 'bad format err' ? g1 x[#100*-1] works but is way ugly
[14:58:10] <tomp> no unary minus?
[15:13:35] <alSMT_> Hey whats is "motion.distance-to-go" used for?
[15:25:01] <SWPadnos> tomp, no, no unary minus
[15:25:16] <SWPadnos> but you could use X[0-#100]
[15:26:40] <archivist> gcose is fugly
[15:26:45] <archivist> gcode
[15:27:16] <archivist> I have that sort of bracketed horror all over my code
[15:28:49] <SWPadnos> well, I think you have to remember where it all started
[15:29:15] <SWPadnos> machines that took a serial stream of characters and had to figure out what to do with the least memory possible
[15:29:25] <archivist> true...a long time ago
[15:29:45] <SWPadnos> yea, and what we have today is more or less compatible with that
[15:30:31] <archivist> I do wonder sometimes if the language could do with a syntax update
[15:30:45] <SWPadnos> sure, something like STEP ;)
[15:31:57] <archivist> not looked at STEP
[15:32:23] <SWPadnos> me either
[15:32:38] <SWPadnos> I gather it's actually a language that describes the geometry, not the tool path
[15:32:55] <SWPadnos> so the control can be smarter about choosing how to make the geometry happen (in theory anyway)
[15:34:08] <tomp> SWPadnos: thx 0-fred is prettier
[15:34:12] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:34:16] <SWPadnos> marginally
[15:37:02] <archivist> not sure about the machine deciding, because sometimes order matters due to residual strength and rigidity of the item
[15:37:44] <tomp> yeh. i'm all for dumb controllers and smart cam
[15:37:57] <tomp> then the controller can be faster
[15:38:04] <archivist> some times I work ate the margins of the material and need to either support or control the cut
[15:39:05] <archivist> the escape wheel I started on on Friday being an example, second attempt will be tomorrow
[15:39:30] <BigJohnT> the first one was for experiance
[15:39:40] <tomp> yep, that can have problems when the sheets stress is released by a cut opening to outside
[15:40:18] <tomp> we got that a lot in wedm
[15:40:50] <SWPadnos> I think the idea is that the CAM runs at least in part on the machine
[15:41:08] <tomp> the idea behind STEP?
[15:41:15] <SWPadnos> the machine "knows" its capabilities, and the part fie describes the shape of the part, maybe finish, material, etc.
[15:41:18] <SWPadnos> tomp, yes
[15:41:59] <SWPadnos> my understanding (which may be entirely wrong) is that it's meant to allow the machine to make smarter decisions, and to alleviate the issues with things like tool offsets
[15:42:18] <archivist> but does the machine know the materiel
[15:42:25] <tomp> archivists point is the machine would need to know the stability of the stock during the cut
[15:42:27] <SWPadnos> (do I offset the path and not use G41/G42, or do I use G41/G42, do I manually fillet inside corners ...)
[15:42:47] <SWPadnos> sure, it can't know everything :)
[15:43:09] <SWPadnos> but you could say "this is titanium" and have the machine choose feeds/speeds based on that
[15:43:34] <SWPadnos> whether you could also have it take lighter cuts when doing e.g. vanes, that's another question
[15:44:02] <BigJohnT> the machine should learn from each job...
[15:44:30] <archivist> heh that will take some writing BigJohnT
[15:44:41] <SWPadnos> read all about it http://www.steptools.com/library/stepnc/
[15:44:44] <tomp> its arguable, IMO i want to state exactly what path i want ( and take responsibity for that decision ), and the control should give me exactly that path.
[15:45:00] <SWPadnos> on that note, I think I'll actually pack now, since I'm getting on a plane in a couple of hours
[15:45:10] <BigJohnT> have a good trip
[15:45:43] <tomp> be safe, load up on C now
[15:45:51] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT ponders the best way to cope with integral wind up...
[15:46:47] <tomp> haha, dont integrate ( what was that louisiana governer's name?)
[15:47:16] <BigJohnT> Huey P. Long?
[15:47:52] <tomp> newer ( tho i like the stories of huey, wasnt he the modekl in o brother where art thou ?)
[15:48:01] <tomp> model
[15:48:50] <BigJohnT> I don't remember
[15:49:10] <tomp> jess foolishness, np
[15:49:36] <archivist> bugger ISO wants CHF 252,00 for a pdf copy of STEP-NC... what we need donations for :)
[15:53:20] <tomp> With STEP-NC, a CNC system is given a full description of the part and the manufacturing process.
[15:53:26] <tomp>  This description allows the CNC to perform complete safety checking before it begins to make the part,
[15:53:27] <tomp>  and it allows the CNC to optimize the manufacturing process for its current operating conditions.
[15:53:36] <tomp> quote from SWPadnos site
[15:57:03] <tomp> , so the CNC can precalc this ( likely has to ture the entire program to do these checks ), so, i got no bitch, but its a large burden on the cnc.
[15:57:08] <tomp>  the cnc doenst get to work until after these checks so why cant the step stuff be done prior to the cnc?
[15:57:09] <tomp> wether gcode is used or not is no problem to me, but putting too much on the cnc is not good or wise.
[15:58:12] <archivist> probably the assumption every thing can have a multi core cpu these days
[15:58:23] <BigJohnT> yep seems like all the preplanning should be done on a pre processor
[16:00:04] <archivist> some preplanning is required dont give large jobs to small machines etc
[16:01:39] <tomp> dotn give mill work to the grinder ;)
[16:05:18] <tomp> i'd like to see something side by side, gcode & step. this company behind SWPadnos's link, shows the circle diamond square test program ( an old emc test program, meant to show accuracy of the machine tool ). that would be interesting to see and compare.
[16:05:43] <tomp> http://www.steptools.com/products/stmachine/ shows the cds result form
[16:05:53] <tomp> cds circle diamond square
[16:07:27] <tomp> no ones done it, but the gcode interp could be substituted by dialogs, step, svg... gcode never makes it as far as the drive ;)
[16:13:36] <alSMT_> I use this "loadusr -W pyvcp Index_pyvcp.xml" in my hal file and seems as though -W does not wait long enough as I get pin does not exist
[16:14:10] <tomp> hmmm "As part of an ST-Machine purchase, we will configure the ST-Machine Explorer and STEP-NC COM DLL for your particular control. " if we group buy one, they'll write the step to emc cnversion ;)
[16:14:32] <BigJohnT> are you using the post gui hal file for your pins?
[16:14:41] <alSMT_> no
[16:15:56] <alSMT_> if I move the line to a diff hal that gets loaded before this one no problem
[16:17:02] <archivist> tomp, there is a small amount of open source on there as well
[16:18:24] <BigJohnT> you might have to use -Wn but I'm not sure http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//hal_basic_hal.html#r1_1_3
[16:18:50] <alSMT_> the name is the same?
[16:19:10] <alSMT_> i'll try it
[16:19:13] <BigJohnT> yes
[16:20:01] <alSMT_> no go
[16:21:12] <BigJohnT> is there a problem with loading it from a different file
[16:21:34] <alSMT_> not realy just wondering why
[16:21:49] <BigJohnT> now I am too :)
[16:22:26] <BigJohnT> it may have something to do with it is a pyvcp file instead of a component...
[16:22:43] <BigJohnT> -W may only work on components
[16:22:55] <alSMT_> is the -W waiting for pyvcp to become ready or the component?
[16:23:10] <alSMT_> xml file
[16:23:43] <BigJohnT> I don't know...
[16:23:56] <SWPadnos> -W waits for the componnet to become ready
[16:24:18] <SWPadnos> -Wn means "wait for a component with this name"
[16:24:29] <BigJohnT> does it work on pyvcp panels?
[16:24:31] <SWPadnos> instead of a component with the same HAL name as the file loaded
[16:24:33] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:24:57] <SWPadnos> but since you can name a panel anything (with -c maybe?), you may also have to tell halcmd to look for something other than "pyvcp"
[16:25:07] <BigJohnT> then alSMT_ might have a different problem
[16:25:12] <alSMT_> i'm loading more than one panel
[16:25:14] <BigJohnT> and that may be it
[16:25:16] <SWPadnos> so loadusr -Wn mypanel pyvcp -c mypanel the_panel.xml
[16:25:31] <SWPadnos> that's why you have to be able to name panels arbitrarily
[16:25:36] <SWPadnos> you use a separate loadusr for each one
[16:28:18] <alSMT_> I do us a dif loadusr
[16:28:39] <BigJohnT> good thing SWPadnos took a break from packing
[16:28:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:28:56] <SWPadnos> I've got this raincoat draped over my arm right now ;)
[16:29:36] <SWPadnos> that line I put in above tells halcmd to wait for something called "mypanel" to become ready
[16:29:51] <SWPadnos> the pyvcp -c mypanel part makes pyvcp name itself "mypanel"
[16:30:00] <SWPadnos> and the xml file is just whatever you want to load
[16:30:25] <BigJohnT> I need to add a paragrah on that in the pyvcp section...
[16:30:33] <BigJohnT> paragraph
[16:30:43] <BigJohnT> after my nap
[16:30:49] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah.
[16:30:53] <SWPadnos> good luck with it :)
[16:31:11] <BigJohnT> I never seem to have a problem with napping
[16:31:35] <BigJohnT> have a safe trip SWPadnos
[16:31:40] <tomp> but alSMT_ does this ( loadusr -Wn nameofpanel pyvcp -c titleofpanel panelfile.xml ) and does not get the pins he expects
[16:31:42] <SWPadnos> thanks
[16:31:57] <SWPadnos> tomp, s/nameofpanel/titleofpanel/
[16:31:57] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT wanders off to take a nap
[16:32:06] <SWPadnos> they should be the same
[16:32:46] <tomp> ok, same name
[16:33:00] <alSMT_> SWPadnos: that worked thanks
[16:33:15] <SWPadnos> great
[16:33:16] <tomp> ? thought thats what you did before
[16:33:34] <SWPadnos> no -Wn and -c
[16:34:46] <alSMT_> this is what work "loadusr -Wn Index_pyvcp pyvcp Index_pyvcp.xml"
[16:35:10] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:35:17] <tomp> cool, good work SWPadnos, i'll buy you the large packo pretzels on the plane ( the ones with 14 mini pretzels, not just 10 )
[16:35:20] <SWPadnos> pyvcp names itself for the file name by default
[16:35:42] <SWPadnos> or you can tell it to be something different, like "plasma_info" with -c
[16:35:49] <SWPadnos> regardless of the name of the xml file
[16:35:53] <SWPadnos> tomp, thanks :)
[16:36:03] <alSMT_> cool
[16:36:05] <SWPadnos> maybe I'll upgrade to first class so I can have a cookie too
[16:36:36] <alSMT_> is it fest already
[16:37:09] <tomp> if you go anywhere that you canuse KLM, they're good prices and great service ( trying to be the leader i guess )
[16:37:20] <tomp> is it soup yet?
[16:37:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm. are they part of the Star Alliance?
[16:37:40] <tomp> i thin so
[16:38:05] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I thought so too, but it doesn't look it
[16:41:27] <tomp> no, they're not, there was a prior alliance of NWA and KLM, but KLM is not part of star alliance
[16:41:34] <tomp> sorry
[16:43:01] <tomp> gnite, thx
[16:58:22] <archivist> SWPadnos, still getting time for some good answers!
[19:06:38] <BigJohnT> alSMT_: did you get your panels working ok?
[19:08:32] <alSMT_> yes
[19:08:53] <alSMT_> pyvcp jog wheel
[19:08:54] <Optic> moo
[19:09:07] <BigJohnT> ok
[19:09:33] <alSMT_> should I put a example on the wiki
[19:14:23] <jepler> Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.3.0 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | Channel logged by logger_emc
[19:14:41] <jepler> jepler has changed the topic to: Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.3.0 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | Channel logged by logger_emc
[19:27:47] <alex_joni> yay 2.3.0
[19:30:39] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[19:31:42] <pjm__> cool! I'll update!
[19:33:18] <archivist> alex_joni, that question from ian wright I assume he needs a kinematics module to do that (as I do)
[19:46:01] <alex_joni> archivist: nope, jepler just replied
[19:46:07] <alex_joni> he only wants the display to change
[19:46:14] <alex_joni> and AXIS from 2.3 can do that
[19:46:32] <archivist> ew... /me needs it too
[19:47:38] <alex_joni> well.. it's fresher than fresh
[19:47:46] <archivist> I know!!!
[19:51:43] <archivist> big decision upgrade before or after I finish the job im in the middle of....
[19:53:13] <jepler> archivist: after! after!
[19:53:37] <archivist> I think that possibly too
[19:53:50] <archivist> but I want to play
[20:16:16] <alSMT_> what does "distance to go" display the longest axis distance?
[20:19:52] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://www.zetatalk.com/energy/tengy05n.htm
[20:23:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Though, the rest of the website is wacked out =)
[21:25:32] <jepler> alSMT_: it displays the cartesian distance (sqrt(dx*dx + dy*dy + dz*dz) on a 3-axis machine)
[21:27:33] <JymmmEMC> he left 5 minutes after asking
[21:30:20] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: I'm sure jepler saw that :)
[21:31:31] <invite> :)
[21:31:52] <alex_joni> but since logger_emc is around, alSMT_ might read the log later
[21:40:37] <eric_unterhausen> I hate to even think what took JymmmEMC to that web site
[21:59:09] <alex_joni> whee: http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-41448.html#backToArticle=618372
[22:02:23] <alex_joni> http://benheck.com/04-05-2009/commodore-64-original-hardware-laptop#more-496
[23:51:46] <tomp> http://reactivision.sourceforge.net/ "computer vision framework for the fast and robust tracking of fiducial markers attached onto physical objects, as well as for multi-touch finger tracking"
[23:53:51] <tomp> can you put a fiducial marker on a lab rats ass & have emc give it a shot?
[23:56:37] <tomp> and -- cooler than bar codes -- http://code.google.com/p/fidgen/ custom fiduclai markers (tattoo this on the back of your neck :)