#emc | Logs for 2009-04-14

[02:25:24] <Skullworks> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1167004/Adam-robot-make-scientific-discovery-conducting-OWN-experiments.html
[03:56:15] <mih> Hello,
[03:57:44] <mih> I am trying to install emc2 / ubuntu 8.04 live cd and would not let me partition, during interactive install, no erro msg. show s up
[03:57:59] <cradek> how much ram is in your system?
[03:58:34] <cradek> did you run the media test on the cd at the first menu?
[03:58:58] <Optic> maybe his hard disk controller isn't being detected
[03:59:23] <mih> 512 mb ddr
[03:59:38] <mih> no dit not run media test
[03:59:40] <cradek> ok, that is enough
[03:59:52] <cradek> run the media test - it's very easy to get a bad cd burn
[04:00:56] <tomp> mih, good idea to test the cd, and, need more info on 'would not let me partition', what did you see?
[04:00:59] <mih> ok , however Im am booted on the livecd
[04:01:21] <cradek> that's good but is not a substitute for the media check
[04:01:50] <mih> can I mediacheck within ubuntu?
[04:02:00] <cradek> no
[04:02:08] <mih> ok brb
[04:05:33] <mih> Optic: fdisk -l shows nothing, does this mean hd is not detected?
[04:05:58] <Optic> i would imagine
[04:06:02] <Optic> but it doesn't hurt to do the test
[04:06:15] <Optic> check dmesg output and see if it got your controller
[04:06:19] <mih> brb
[04:06:21] <Optic> is your hard disk weird at all?
[04:14:41] <mib_k7yqajgq> no errors found for integrity check
[04:15:00] <mib_k7yqajgq> this is min
[04:15:06] <mib_k7yqajgq> this is mih
[04:16:08] <SWPadnos> what kind of disk is it?
[04:16:15] <SWPadnos> (IDE, SCSI, SATA ...)
[04:16:25] <mib_k7yqajgq> ide
[04:16:58] <SWPadnos> ok, that should be detected, unless the controller is weird
[04:17:04] <SWPadnos> what's the motherboard chipset?
[04:18:05] <mib_k7yqajgq> msi neo2 platinum [ nvidia ]
[04:19:28] <SWPadnos> CK804?
[04:19:50] <fenn> mih have you ever installed linux on this system before?
[04:20:31] <mib_k7yqajgq> I had ubuntu 8
[04:20:38] <fenn> sometimes you'll have two IDE disks with the same master/slave flag; windows will happily use it but linux complains
[04:20:41] <SWPadnos> 8.04?
[04:21:20] <mib_k7yqajgq> yes 8.04
[04:21:46] <mib_k7yqajgq> I will remove the slave hd
[04:22:04] <SWPadnos> you can install EMC2 and the realtime kernel onto an already installed 8.04 system
[04:22:13] <SWPadnos> you don't need the liveCD
[04:22:39] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_8_04_using_precompiled_EMC2_packages
[04:23:45] <mib_k7yqajgq> I don't know what I have now, it won't boot by itself
[04:23:52] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[04:24:18] <SWPadnos> if you can't get our liveCD to work, please try a stock Ubuntu 8.04 CD and let us know if that works
[04:26:22] <mib_5swm884a> can you give me the link again my chat window froze
[04:26:28] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_8_04_using_precompiled_EMC2_packages
[04:26:33] <SWPadnos> if you can't get our liveCD to work, please try a stock Ubuntu 8.04 CD and let us know if that works
[04:26:58] <SWPadnos> was that freeze on the EMC machine or another?
[04:27:06] <JymmmEMC> md5 the iso and burn at 4x speed
[04:28:17] <mib_5swm884a> stock live cd works
[04:28:48] <SWPadnos> could you make a wiki page and stick the output of dmesg on it?
[04:28:53] <SWPadnos> and maybe lspci
[04:29:02] <SWPadnos> (upload the files and link to them if you could)
[04:29:23] <JymmmEMC> http://codepad.org
[04:29:28] <SWPadnos> there have been a couple of reports like this, but I don't think we have a list of hardware that the problem crops up on
[04:29:43] <SWPadnos> no, the wiki is a better place for this I think :)
[04:29:54] <JymmmEMC> ah
[04:30:09] <JymmmEMC> but ide is ide, unless it's an onboard RAID or something
[04:30:15] <SWPadnos> "EMC2 CD didn't work on this hardware, 8.04 CD did" ...
[04:30:21] <SWPadnos> nVidia chipset
[04:30:32] <SWPadnos> some of those have been problematic for Linux in general
[04:30:53] <JymmmEMC> ah
[04:31:26] <JymmmEMC> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2696469/hyundai_aggressive_marketing_against_big_3/
[04:31:56] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: did you see my Q about simple/cheap 2 or 3 I/O via ethernet?
[04:32:16] <SWPadnos> yep, nothing came to mind, especially in the tax bracket I expect you're looking for ;)
[04:32:23] <mib_5swm884a> I would try on an old compaq wity 256 ram would be enough for emc2?
[04:32:40] <SWPadnos> I think you need at least 256, prefereably 512 for the install
[04:32:47] <SWPadnos> you can run with 256
[04:33:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Yep $20 or less =)
[04:33:27] <SWPadnos> I know where you can get connectors for that price
[04:33:51] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: me too, your junk box
[04:34:04] <JymmmEMC> better pricing too FREE!
[04:34:08] <SWPadnos> sure, I'll sell you some 10/100 connectors at $20 each
[04:34:19] <JymmmEMC> I got those
[04:34:42] <SWPadnos> damn. and I was getting excited about the profit potential
[04:35:08] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, go ahead and take out a 3rd on your house for that
[04:35:36] <SWPadnos> no no no, I'm the one who *gets* the revenue
[04:35:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Sure, tell the bank that
[04:36:14] <tomp> is there description of boot live cd image from usb thumb? ( wiki describes cf via ide )
[04:36:24] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: RFC2324 and RFC 2325
[04:36:44] <JymmmEMC> tomp: It works good
[04:37:20] <tomp> just copy cd contents to thumb?
[04:37:30] <SWPadnos> tomp, Les Newell made a CF turotial, and there's been success with USB sticks with a tutorial on PenDriveLinux.com (I think)
[04:37:33] <SWPadnos> not quite
[04:37:49] <tomp> ok, pendrivelinux hello :)
[04:37:57] <JymmmEMC> Not anywhere close actually
[04:38:04] <SWPadnos> also, there's an application in Jaunty (probably in 8.xx also, via backports) which will install an ISO onto a USB drive
[04:40:44] <tomp> ought be a start... Install Ubuntu 8.10 to a Flash Drive using the Live CD http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ubuntu-810-install-using-the-built-in-usb-installer/
[04:42:27] <tomp> dang, does ubuntu 8.04 have a 'System > Administration > Create a USB startup disk:' menu item? ( on w$ now )
[04:42:44] <SWPadnos> no, I think it was added in 8.10
[04:43:01] <tomp> urf
[04:43:02] <SWPadnos> but it's possible that it's available in backports (you have to enable that explicitly in Synaptic)
[04:43:29] <tomp> ok, rebooting, thx
[04:43:51] <JymmmEMC> Heh, he could have just used the VM I created! lol
[04:43:54] <SWPadnos> nope - oh well :)
[04:44:29] <SWPadnos> oh hey, I downloaded the P2V migration tool from VMWare
[04:44:31] <SWPadnos> looks cool
[04:44:41] <JymmmEMC> p2v?
[04:44:44] <SWPadnos> we'll see how well it works
[04:44:48] <SWPadnos> physical to virtual
[04:44:54] <JymmmEMC> ah
[04:45:03] <SWPadnos> have you used it at all?
[04:45:23] <JymmmEMC> I'm planning on it, but I heard that it might catch EVERYTHING
[04:45:30] <JymmmEMC> ^not
[04:45:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:45:39] <SWPadnos> I was wondering how that was bad :)
[04:46:10] <JymmmEMC> I need the disk space before I can try it out
[04:46:31] <JymmmEMC> What I need is a damn NAS box
[04:46:37] <SWPadnos> yep. I've got to get my other workstation somewhere useful
[04:47:24] <JymmmEMC> I'm also maxed out the hdd in the MBP, so I need to crack the sucker open again and installed a larger hdd
[04:47:40] <SWPadnos> what's in it now?
[04:47:59] <JymmmEMC> 120GB
[04:48:10] <SWPadnos> ah, relatively small
[04:48:15] <JymmmEMC> iso's and VM's take up a LOT of room
[04:48:18] <SWPadnos> same as this workstation though ;)
[04:49:14] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Oh, I just found out about MFS, I want to check it out and might play around
[04:49:22] <JymmmEMC> Moose FS
[04:49:22] <SWPadnos> MFS?
[04:49:26] <SWPadnos> hmm. ok
[04:49:28] <SWPadnos> what is it?
[04:49:43] <JymmmEMC> a redundant network distributed FS
[04:49:48] <JymmmEMC> fault tolerant too
[04:49:48] <SWPadnos> don't tell me Moose Peterson made a photo file system or something
[04:49:52] <SWPadnos> ok, good
[04:49:58] <JymmmEMC> uses FUSE
[04:50:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://www.moosefs.com/pages/mfs.html
[04:50:59] <JymmmEMC> Though, I'm not sure I'm like the MASTER's needs
[04:52:16] <SWPadnos> ok, similar to a persistent torrent, complete with master tracker
[04:52:46] <JymmmEMC> But FUSE can run over SSL
[04:52:51] <JymmmEMC> err SSH
[04:53:09] <tomp> Ubuntu USB desktop image creator?
[04:53:21] <SWPadnos> damfino
[04:53:31] <SWPadnos> my Jaunty machine is off, so I can't check there
[04:54:11] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:55:04] <SWPadnos> note that the version in backports likely has a bug which may cause it to make a non-bootable stick
[04:55:22] <SWPadnos> you might have to put syslinus there yourself, and/or make the partition bootable
[04:55:23] <JymmmEMC> Oh hell, nm on the MFS... it's gpl
[04:55:26] <SWPadnos> syslinux
[04:55:50] <tomp> well it installed to 8.04 ok ( orig from live cd ) now, where to find a live cd, maybe just grab iso and mount it? no. rtfm!
[04:55:54] <SWPadnos> GPL isn't all that bad, unless you want to change it and not distribute the code
[04:56:07] <tomp> eh? dangerous app? makes brick sticks?
[04:56:08] <SWPadnos> no need to mount, you point the program at a bootable ISO :)
[04:56:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I've never really cared for gpl
[04:56:29] <SWPadnos> no, forgets to put syslinux on the stick, and forgets to mark the partition bootable
[04:56:52] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, and yet you use GPL all over the place (like the freenode server software ...)
[04:57:41] <tomp> SWPadnos: ok, will try (maybe not this stick tho), i could even repair the boot flag & push syslinux onto it in a pinch
[04:58:01] <SWPadnos> yeah. there's a thread I was reading about this just today
[04:58:18] <SWPadnos> I think I was searching for how to update a USB stick install
[04:58:26] <SWPadnos> which doesn't work all that well, I'll have you know
[04:58:33] <SWPadnos> (at least not when I do it ;) )
[04:58:48] <JymmmEMC> apt-get update?
[04:59:00] <SWPadnos> yeah, tried that
[04:59:19] <JymmmEMC> but did you make a LIVEUSB or persistant?
[04:59:21] <SWPadnos> problem is that the casper-rw "partition" fills up
[04:59:26] <SWPadnos> live and persistent
[04:59:36] <JymmmEMC> well you need a big enough stick
[04:59:41] <SWPadnos> there's a loopback disk image, which I made 512M
[04:59:45] <SWPadnos> the stick is 2G
[04:59:53] <JymmmEMC> yeah, so? try 4gb
[05:00:17] <SWPadnos> there's extra stuff that gets stored, and I stopped messing with it before figuring it out
[05:00:24] <JymmmEMC> ah
[05:00:47] <SWPadnos> I think it doesn't modify the original image, it adds all the extra stuff to the writable partition, overlaid on the boot image
[05:00:48] <mib_5swm884a> I removed second hd and set the the remaining one to master, it was a priority conflict , and the partitioning program works now
[05:00:59] <SWPadnos> mib_5swm884a, great!
[05:05:04] <SWPadnos> night, all
[05:05:11] <JymmmEMC> nite
[05:05:16] <SkinnYPuP> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/
[05:06:51] <tomp> yes, they talk about the loopback vs separate casper partition schmes http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ubuntu-810-persistent-flash-drive-install-from-live-cd/
[05:07:07] <tomp> oh gnite SWPadnos, thx
[05:07:35] <SkinnYPuP> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/tag/usb-ubuntu-804/
[05:08:13] <SkinnYPuP> I recall when messin with an 810 live disk there was an install to usb in the admin menu
[05:09:00] <SkinnYPuP> maybe there's something to be learned from its script if anyone is interested in looking
[05:20:21] <tomp> back to w$ for cad, thx
[05:23:26] <mib_nfnl22gv> is it recomanded to update ubuntu 8.04 + EMC2?
[06:34:27] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[06:37:38] <christel> [Global Notice] Good morning, it would appear we're experiencing some connectivity issues this morning. We're looking into it. Apologies for the inconvenience and have a good day!
[06:49:23] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: one thing that comes to mind is serial over eth
[06:49:29] <alex_joni> there are some cheapish adapters
[06:49:36] <alex_joni> and you can use DTS/DTR as I/O
[06:51:34] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: not a bad idea... just to turn on coffee maker and to check it's level
[06:56:50] <alex_joni> there is some RFC for serial over eth
[06:56:56] <alex_joni> I use ser2net on linux
[06:57:25] <alex_joni> that does the serial<->eth conversion
[07:04:58] <JymmmEMC> it's just a toy, been thinking about it for 8 years and counting =)
[08:49:25] <JustinXJS2_> JustinXJS2_ is now known as JustinXJS2
[12:18:28] <Guest667> hello all
[12:20:00] <Guest667> Can anybody tell me how to debug emc?
[12:20:25] <anonimasu> there should be a debugmode page in the wiki i think
[12:21:06] <alex_joni> Guest667: emc is pretty big
[12:21:12] <alex_joni> what aspects do you want to debug?
[12:22:11] <Guest667> i want to study the source code,i have read it for some time,but always confused about the source structures
[12:22:25] <alex_joni> Guest667: there is a developers manual
[12:22:46] <alex_joni> it contains a tiny bit of how emc2 is set up
[12:23:32] <Guest667> I am a newbie for linux develop,but i pay attention for EMC for a long times
[12:24:43] <Guest667> i have download a liveCD,and build it following the suggestions successfully
[12:25:25] <Guest667> but i still donot know how to debug the source code ,if i make any change on the code,
[12:28:10] <Guest667> the project contains so many modules,how can the develops debug the multi sources project?
[12:29:49] <alex_joni> usually with patience
[12:30:18] <BigJohnT> :)
[12:53:42] <Optic> moo
[12:54:07] <archivist> baa
[12:55:46] <Optic> nobody here but us chickens
[13:08:22] <Valen> I'm not even a chicken
[13:40:23] <SWPadnos> haha. another great Spam subject line: "You will have so much meat - it will be enough for a couple of servings"
[13:40:34] <skunkworks_> Yikes
[13:41:06] <SWPadnos> I think that's more amusing that "your little friend will grow without limits"
[13:41:09] <SWPadnos> than
[13:41:36] <BJT-Work> I'm about ready to change my e mail address spam outnumbers messages 2 to 1
[13:41:52] <SWPadnos> yep. I think it
[13:41:59] <SWPadnos> it's about the same here
[13:42:19] <archivist> Im happy with gmail
[13:42:22] <SWPadnos> Mozilla seems to be able to detect it OK though, so I could turn on the auto-delete function
[13:42:28] <BJT-Work> every time I change I go 18 to 24 months spam free
[13:42:32] <skunkworks_> thunderbird does a great job.
[13:42:32] <SWPadnos> or turn on the spam controls at my ISP
[13:43:15] <BJT-Work> Pegasus catches it good but it is still annoying
[13:43:20] <SWPadnos> I've learned a few thinsg about multi-selection on Windows though :)
[13:44:27] <BJT-Work> what's that?
[13:44:31] <SWPadnos> oh
[13:44:53] <SWPadnos> well, you know how sift-click selects a range and ctrl-click adds individual elements to the selection?
[13:45:04] <BJT-Work> yes
[13:45:11] <SWPadnos> well, ctrl-shift-click adds the range from the last element you ctrl-clicked on
[13:45:34] <SWPadnos> so you can do multiple ranges with click / shift-click / ctrl-click (somewhere else) / ctrl-shift-click
[13:46:20] <BJT-Work> I actually understood what you said :)
[13:46:35] <SWPadnos> wow. and that's before I've had any coffee :)
[13:46:43] <tomp> is there an invert like ^A, pick everything except whats been selected?
[13:46:43] <SWPadnos> maybe you had mine
[13:46:55] <BJT-Work> I'm on my last cup
[13:47:03] <SWPadnos> ctrl-A is select all usually
[13:48:07] <tomp> well i can always ^A then remove the odd things, i thought id select the odd things and invert the set
[13:48:12] <SWPadnos> oh interesting. In Mozilla, ctrl-shift-A is "select thread"
[13:48:32] <SWPadnos> that works better when you don't have 9000 other messages in your inbox
[13:51:04] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work likes the verify button on mc it just saved me from cutting a large divot in the part
[13:51:21] <BJT-Work> I wish we could load the material shape into EMC :)
[13:51:31] <archivist> and me
[13:51:45] <tomp> nerf steel? ( virtual stock) ?
[13:52:04] <SWPadnos> all you have to do is change vismach to show the part, and also incorporate gdepth to show what's been machined away
[13:52:26] <archivist> just a "small" hack!
[13:52:57] <SWPadnos> yep. oh, coffee's ready. see you later :)
[14:01:47] <tomp> the maxwell house coffee jingle http://www.roadode.com/classicwmv1/maxwellhouse.wmv
[14:03:23] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work wishes he knew how to run vismach
[14:03:57] <archivist> BJT-Work, Ive run it, but modding it is.......
[14:04:27] <BJT-Work> I've only heard tell of it but not seen it :)
[14:04:45] <cradek> several of the sample configs run it
[14:05:09] <BJT-Work> I'll have to look when I get home, no linux here :(
[14:05:13] <cradek> you just have to run them...
[14:05:43] <cradek> what, are you on a desert island or something?
[14:05:59] <archivist> I dont get the python code yet though
[14:12:23] <BJT-Work> 4 computers in the machine shop 3 windoz and 1 dos
[14:13:11] <SWPadnos> sounds similar to your spam problem
[14:13:26] <BJT-Work> LOL
[14:15:11] <BJT-Work> as soon as there is a linux program to replace sw I'm on it :)
[14:15:24] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah
[14:15:38] <SWPadnos> actually, SolidWorks seems to work quite well in a VM
[14:15:57] <BJT-Work> what version?
[14:16:08] <SWPadnos> 2004 I think
[14:16:34] <SWPadnos> the one (?) that had the ratcheting screwdriver as one of the sample designs
[14:17:15] <BJT-Work> 2009 here and what a pain to install it has to connect to the mother ship and get permission...
[14:17:33] <SWPadnos> I could spin the model around in realtime in a non-fullscreen VM
[14:17:41] <BJT-Work> the splash screens change each time you boot up...
[14:17:47] <SWPadnos> this was on a dual Opteron with an Nvidia Quadro FX3500
[14:17:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:18:10] <SWPadnos> both slower than a $500-1000 machine today
[14:18:23] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work wanders back to the mill to make chips
[15:13:23] <Valen> SWPadnos tried using solidcam with solidworks with EMC?
[15:25:37] <SWPadnos> Valen, no. I don't have SW any more (I only installed it as a test)
[16:25:23] <pjm__> evening, btw i have registered a user on the linuxcnc.org site, no confirmation email as yet, how long do they typically take to arrive?
[16:29:21] <BJT-Work> took me a few minutes
[16:30:37] <pjm__> ah i registered last night, still nothing
[16:31:59] <BJT-Work> try logging in
[16:39:42] <pjm__> yeah i tried that, it said the registration process had not completed
[17:25:22] <Valen> you may have grey listing or something
[17:54:33] <BJT-Work> pjm__: you still around?
[17:56:57] <skunkworks_> http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-KEARNEY-TRECKER-HORIZONTAL-CNC-MACHINING-CENTER_W0QQitemZ170313337132QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item170313337132&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
[17:58:38] <archivist> nice tou to put EMC on
[17:58:42] <archivist> toy
[17:59:24] <BJT-Work> vista green is ugly
[17:59:54] <archivist> who cares about the colour!
[18:00:47] <cradek> I like how the tools are covered so you can't confuse it
[18:00:59] <cradek> (I assume it doesn't put them back where it got them)
[18:06:13] <skunkworks_> covered?
[18:06:31] <skunkworks_> there are no tools in the tool changer..
[18:07:37] <archivist> do they point inwards :)
[18:11:56] <skunkworks_> http://www.umtn.com/pics/650273_2.jpg
[18:12:01] <Optic> wow
[18:12:03] <Optic> that's cool
[18:12:05] <Optic> that's a big machine!
[18:12:20] <cradek> oh forget it, I assumed they pointed down
[18:12:48] <archivist> I would still like one to play with
[18:13:03] <skunkworks_> it is a little brother to ours. :) full 4th axis though
[18:13:11] <SWPadnos> that is one big-ass URL
[18:13:17] <skunkworks_> sorry :)
[18:13:29] <SWPadnos> not your fault :)
[18:13:53] <SWPadnos> did you see the slashdot article about how shortening URLs could save some significant amount of bandwidth?
[18:14:00] <SWPadnos> a couple of weeks ago
[18:14:09] <Optic> url shortening services are evil though
[18:14:17] <SWPadnos> no, not like tinyURL
[18:14:43] <alex_joni> heh
[18:14:43] <Optic> http://ebay.com/item/170313337132
[18:14:48] <Optic> that should work!
[18:14:48] <alex_joni> that's an interesting idea
[18:15:06] <SWPadnos> just not http://short.server.com/PageName?VariableOne=somereallylongpieceofdatasowecantrrackyourhabits&otherdata=moreuselessinformation+thats+not+_related ...
[18:15:37] <alex_joni> &session_id=4378264592642398yrudhg872346y8732yr9723rtg927t3gr93g672rf23876r487326493273927dy932ert2397642987704357269
[18:16:04] <SWPadnos> a lot of people jumped on how the headers are really small compared to content anyway, but when a page has two words that are displayed and 1k of link text behind it, for 20-100 links per page, it gets pretty big
[18:17:17] <archivist> some hide it as post data
[18:24:50] <alex_joni> pjmcnc, pjm__ : your email addy had a typo in it (ending in .comp instead of .com I assume)
[18:25:04] <alex_joni> try logging in again, you'll get a new confirmation email
[18:30:29] <archivist> alex_joni, form error zipcode does not allow british postcode
[18:31:02] <LawrenceG> or Canadian postal codes!
[18:31:15] <LawrenceG> leave it blank
[18:31:34] <archivist> I did, typical yank address form though
[18:32:01] <LawrenceG> centre of the universe :}
[18:32:13] <archivist> pffft
[18:36:48] <alex_joni> archivist: complains redirected to google please
[18:37:59] <alex_joni> archivist: someone else wrote me an email about it, but there's not much I can do about it :/
[18:38:49] <archivist> ew
[18:39:02] <skunkworks_> LawrenceG: were you one of the audience that boo'ed billy bob thortan off the stage? ;)
[18:39:14] <archivist> * archivist has a nose around the map
[18:41:35] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, "I know nothing"
[18:41:42] <alex_joni> ha
[18:41:46] <alex_joni> he says..
[18:42:25] <archivist> I would have expected less affluent areas to have more users due to low cost, but thats not the case
[18:43:27] <fenn> only rich hobbyists can afford to play with CNC machines
[18:45:05] <alex_joni> archivist: the map is about 3 days old
[18:45:18] <alex_joni> that hardly makes it accurate
[18:45:29] <archivist> shows the trend though
[18:47:56] <fenn> alright where is this map
[18:48:18] <archivist> well hidden to the blind
[18:48:43] <pjmcnc> alex_joni, ahh ok thanks for that ;-) its this damn keyboard, it does keep making errorrs
[18:48:52] <SWPadnos> fenn, linuxcnc.org, you have to sign in I think
[18:49:07] <BJT-Work> pjmcnc: I have a couple of keyboards like that
[18:49:11] <pjm__> hehh
[18:49:13] <archivist> I had to scroll around fenn the look bottom left
[18:49:59] <fenn> * fenn was looking in the mailing list thread for some url
[18:50:09] <fenn> you have to sign in to see it
[18:51:00] <fenn> huh i would have expected more in germany
[18:51:12] <alex_joni> fenn: 3 days of map
[19:10:37] <pjm__> alex_joni thanks for fixing my account, its worked now
[19:11:33] <skunkworks_> huh - mem386 found some bad memory. I think this is the first time I have run into that. (suprisingly)
[19:11:48] <skunkworks_> *memtest86
[19:24:29] <pjm__> BJT-Work , u asked if i was around about 2 hours back!
[19:24:34] <pjm__> sorry i didnt see it then
[19:25:17] <BJT-Work> that's ok I was just wondering if your log in problems were fixed then I ran into Alex and he fixed it
[19:28:27] <pjm__> ahh ok thanks ;-) yeah its working now and I'm on the map
[19:32:28] <pjm__> we need some more brits using EMC2 judging by the map
[19:33:05] <archivist> I know of a few more
[19:33:39] <pjm__> i'm trying to get the locals i know with mills to move into reality
[19:34:26] <archivist> looks like john_s will convert on lathes at least and that will get a few more
[19:36:06] <pjm__> good ;-)
[19:36:37] <archivist> wernt you going to do an MEW article
[19:37:16] <archivist> or was that paragon (not seen for a while)
[19:37:40] <pjm__> umm whats a MEW?
[19:38:01] <pjm__> i'm trying to acqure an emco lathe
[19:38:05] <archivist> model engineers workshop
[19:38:06] <pjm__> the controller has failed on it
[19:38:15] <pjm__> ah not me ;-(
[19:38:27] <skunkworks_> there is a guy on here that converted a emco lathe.
[19:38:35] <pjm__> ahh interesting
[19:38:54] <cradek> they are neat little machines - stepper+ballscrew
[19:38:57] <archivist> I keep getting beat on fleabay trying to get a cheap dead cnc
[19:39:05] <pjm__> this thing is two halves with a big hinge, and u can wheel the control unit around
[19:39:37] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/user/emcboard
[19:41:44] <skunkworks_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/28/2/lang,en/
[19:43:03] <archivist> there is one of those EMCO's less than a mile from my house and I repaired it for him
[19:44:51] <pjm__> emcotronic-T1 this thing is
[19:45:04] <pjm__> apparently the price of fixing the controller is more than the machien is worth
[19:45:30] <pjm__> -T120 i meant
[19:45:36] <pjm__> bloody keyboard again!
[19:46:22] <skunkworks_> BTW - I have one of those atom 330's as a media pc - working great so far.
[19:46:36] <Optic> oh cool
[19:46:38] <archivist> the one I fixed had a descrete device fail, easy repair
[19:46:41] <Optic> what are you running on it?
[19:47:03] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=598839&postcount=33
[19:47:09] <skunkworks_> I am running mytheatre.
[19:47:14] <skunkworks_> atm
[19:48:01] <BJT-Work> he's brain dead
[19:48:50] <pjm__> archivist do u know a good place to get small 3phase motors? i need a 0.75Kw one to play with
[19:50:01] <archivist> pjm__, define "good" machine mart, the basement here, or fleabay, local scrap yard
[19:50:18] <pjm__> hahh ah yes i forgot about machine mart, we have one just up the road
[19:50:32] <Optic> machine mart?
[19:50:57] <pjm__> its a chain of expensive machine tools shops in the UK
[19:51:03] <archivist> national chain of stores
[19:51:15] <Optic> nice
[19:51:42] <archivist> mainly crap/cheaper stuff though
[19:53:29] <BJT-Work> kinda like Grizzly I bet
[19:54:24] <skunkworks_> harbor freight? ;)
[19:57:36] <BJT-Work> yep it looks like harbor freight with a funny accent
[19:58:36] <archivist> tools still taste chinese
[19:58:46] <jepler> cradek: do you remember any of the stuff we learned about routing plexiglass? have any idea if you can find that special spiral cutter I bought for it?
[19:58:47] <BJT-Work> :)
[20:00:22] <cradek> yes, cut slow, feed fast, yes I bet I know where it is
[20:01:20] <jepler> slow spindle?
[20:01:27] <jepler> that's a problem, since I have no speed control .. it's 20krpm or 0
[20:01:28] <cradek> yes
[20:02:01] <cradek> that little spindle may not have enough power anyway
[20:02:26] <skunkworks_> windex
[20:02:27] <cradek> also, the tool was 1/4 shank I think
[20:02:33] <jepler> oh it was? if so, drat.
[20:02:44] <skunkworks_> or a little soapy water.
[20:02:56] <cradek> plain old flood coolant?
[20:02:59] <jepler> sure could have been
[20:03:38] <jepler> cradek: maybe I'll have to impose on you for this project ..
[20:04:02] <cradek> sure
[20:04:09] <cradek> if the edges don't have to be perfect, score-and-snap works too
[20:04:26] <jepler> no, it has to be shaped
[20:08:06] <cradek> http://www.harveytool.com/products/index.php?page_function=show_family&category_id=1&product_family=Plastic+Cutting+End+Mills
[20:08:53] <archivist> I note the wide variation in rake
[20:08:59] <cradek> this says up to 18,000 rpm, .010 feed "for hard plastic"
[20:09:36] <cradek> so, you want 180 inches/minute (or to slow down the spindle)
[20:16:33] <skunkworks_> what kind of spindle? brushed?
[20:16:53] <skunkworks_> could a cheap and dirty light dimmer be used?
[20:17:04] <cradek> there's no way it would have the power
[20:17:17] <cradek> it's an engraving spindle - little motor with an O-ring belt to the spindle
[20:17:45] <cradek> .010 chunks of even thin plexi take a little power to peel off
[20:18:40] <skunkworks_> yah
[20:18:41] <cradek> iirc, the real problem is holding the plexi down without damaging it
[20:19:04] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ whistles a tune about vaccum chucks..
[20:19:20] <archivist> rake pulls it up :)
[20:19:54] <skunkworks_> is it covered on both sides? then I would pull the carpet tape trick.
[20:20:24] <jepler> tape on the blue protective film?
[20:20:55] <cradek> I have used some tape before - it's very hard to peel it up without crazing it
[20:21:07] <cradek> and yeah, I had to take off the protective plastic
[20:24:18] <skunkworks_> the blue stuff might not be stuck hard enough. A lot of the pastics we get here have paper mask
[20:24:37] <cradek> yeah I bet that would hold it fine
[20:27:06] <jepler> do they make "sticky note adhesive" in a spray bottle yet?
[20:27:56] <skunkworks_> rubber cement.
[20:28:06] <archivist> carpet doublesided tape does not let go
[20:28:20] <skunkworks_> *not contact cement
[20:28:26] <jepler> oh, I know -- determine a bunch of places that the cutter won't go, and put rare earth magnets there to pull it against the table
[20:31:52] <alex_joni> jepler: there is that liquid plastic they use in magazines
[20:31:53] <skunkworks_> just create a plastic magnet
[20:31:57] <alex_joni> to hold ads
[20:32:07] <alex_joni> some gooey stuff, which you can cleanly peel off
[20:33:21] <jepler> yeah
[20:33:30] <jepler> so I need to go buy magazine ads?
[20:33:36] <skunkworks_> magazine snot?
[20:33:40] <jepler> or something
[20:35:05] <justa> hotglue ?
[20:35:08] <alex_joni> I think it's called removable glue/adhesive
[20:35:40] <jepler> "removable glue dots" http://www.gluedots.com/display/router.aspx?DocID=1083
[20:35:52] <jepler> but with a bunch of separate dots, it seems like getting it flat on the table is now the problem
[20:36:25] <justa> The magnet idea was pretty elegant
[20:36:42] <jepler> and whether they'll actually hold the plastic down when you're cutting the plastic out..
[20:37:05] <alex_joni> jepler: I think it's called rubber cement
[20:37:21] <justa> wubbah
[20:37:22] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_cement
[20:37:35] <jepler> I know rubber cement, but I think it'll damage plexiglass
[20:38:49] <justa> Then it's vacuum-table for you...
[20:51:20] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/vactop.JPG
[20:51:30] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/vacback.JPG
[20:51:47] <jepler> I'd shop this job off to skunkworks_ except he'd expect me to do his next circuit board run
[20:52:17] <skunkworks_> heh - I keep trying to find the time to finish up my circuit board mill
[20:56:20] <justa> skunkworks_: that's pretty nice!
[21:01:27] <skunkworks_> makes it easy to do things like this http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/top.JPG
[21:02:08] <justa> That's a nice bit of thick copper trace there
[21:04:29] <justa> though.. makes it important to spread solder across the heat-island spaces..
[21:09:59] <skunkworks_> you mean thermals?
[21:10:12] <justa> yeah
[21:10:22] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/DSC_5094.JPG
[21:10:40] <skunkworks_> that is what happens when the vacumm fails - (and notice the thermals are bigger)
[21:11:42] <justa> interesting board-shapes
[21:12:47] <skunkworks_> I think this is the final solution http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/latestcurrentlimit/latestboard.png
[21:13:14] <skunkworks_> (atleast it hasn't smoked yet) http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/latestcurrentlimit/right.JPG
[21:14:23] <justa> ah... that's the board belonging to that beast
[21:15:45] <justa> optocoupled and all
[21:16:01] <justa> where's the 7Watt resistor ?
[21:17:01] <skunkworks_> what do you mean? it is left of Q1
[21:17:11] <skunkworks_> 4 leg device
[21:17:13] <justa> yeah; but in the assembled board ?
[21:17:31] <justa> Is it the thing I think I see below the big C ?
[21:17:38] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/amp.JPG
[21:17:54] <skunkworks_> different version - but you can see the 7w resistor
[21:18:19] <skunkworks_> Yes - you can just see the end of it
[21:18:34] <justa> yeah.. ; how's it connected internally ?
[21:19:09] <justa> (what's the use behind giving it 4 pins ?)
[21:19:24] <skunkworks_> 2 for power - 2 for sensing
[21:19:34] <skunkworks_> Kelvin connection resistor.
[21:19:45] <archivist> so you measure across the resistor not its leads
[21:19:58] <skunkworks_> http://www.ohmite.com/catalog/pdf/10_series.pdf
[21:20:12] <justa> ahright
[21:20:51] <alSMT_> using pyvcp can you specify a font color?
[21:58:47] <dave_1> In Ubuntu 8.04 ... anyone have an idea on how to kill the calandar that resides (on my desktop) in the lower right corner?
[21:59:01] <dave_1> It covers up part of the current app.
[22:00:57] <SWPadnos> dave_1, right-click on it and select "remove from panel"
[22:01:14] <SWPadnos> or just click on the date in the panel, that will make the calendar disappear (it's a toggle)
[22:04:11] <dave_1> right click does not bring up panel and clicking on the panel just makes it fill screen however it did bring up a tab for it and clicking on that makd it go away. FINALLY
[22:04:19] <dave_1> TNX
[22:06:27] <SWPadnos> huh
[22:06:40] <SWPadnos> is that the calendar app that's normally at the top right?
[22:06:54] <SWPadnos> (showing the date and time)
[22:13:20] <geo01005> Anybody looked into using Powerex intellimod IGBTs for driving brushed DC/Brushless DC/AC motors?
[22:14:51] <geo01005> They look pretty sweet, only need logic level inputs to drive three half bridge IGBT modules. About $20-$30 for the whole thing.
[22:15:17] <seb_kuzminsky> hi geo01005
[22:15:24] <geo01005> Hello.
[22:15:51] <seb_kuzminsky> have you been hacking on the spi stuff we talked about a while ago?
[22:16:36] <geo01005> Well to be honest, my master's research has really picked up and I haven't had a ton of time to do anything with it.
[22:16:50] <seb_kuzminsky> i know how that goes
[22:16:58] <geo01005> I do have an extruder heater running.
[22:17:09] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm going to try to get something going at Fest in the end of may
[22:17:16] <seb_kuzminsky> how's your reprap? :-)
[22:17:17] <dave_1> probably ... I apparently accidentally hit some keystroke which moves the whole bar. so date/time in in LR at this time. ;-)
[22:17:19] <geo01005> I'm only using the raw mode right now though.
[22:17:47] <seb_kuzminsky> you're talking to an spi adc via hm2 raw mode? wow!
[22:17:59] <geo01005> Yeah, It wasn't really that bad.
[22:18:30] <geo01005> But it could only read the adc every 4ish thread cycles.
[22:18:51] <geo01005> not too bad because the thermocouple adc takes 100ms to convert...
[22:19:21] <seb_kuzminsky> lawl
[22:19:38] <seb_kuzminsky> "not really that bad", i want that on my tombstone ;-)
[22:20:03] <geo01005> the reprap is coming along well, I need to get into the machine shop to make the parts I have been designing.
[22:20:33] <seb_kuzminsky> neat :-)
[22:20:46] <geo01005> have you started making a reprap?
[22:21:16] <seb_kuzminsky> no... well yes sort of... my plan is to convert my x2 to cnc, then make a reprap extruder-head for it
[22:21:23] <seb_kuzminsky> i've started the cnc conversion ;-)
[22:21:54] <seb_kuzminsky> can you send me the spi-via-raw code you're using?
[22:23:32] <geo01005> Sure, I just wrote a realtime component. I'll send it to you when I get home tonight.
[22:23:52] <geo01005> I have an email address for you, but I'm not sure if it is right.
[22:24:02] <seb_kuzminsky> then you hook your rt component up to hm2.raw via hal?
[22:24:14] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm seb "splat" highlab.com
[22:25:00] <geo01005> yeah, then a counter inside the rt component to keep track of the current frame to be sent/received. It's very specific to the device.
[22:25:23] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm super excited you got it actually working with an extruder :-)
[22:25:49] <geo01005> I could read the adc every cycle if I could send and receive more than one byte / cycle.
[22:26:02] <geo01005> (in raw mode)
[22:27:23] <geo01005> Well i wish I could say that I have a full extruder right now...just heating a small chuck of aluminum right now.
[22:33:32] <alex_joni> seems inkscape can do dxf import
[22:33:47] <alex_joni> using Kabeja
[22:33:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just read about that..
[22:36:18] <skunkworks> geo01005: I am using descrete igbt's and so far I love them :)
[22:36:49] <geo01005> Have you ever look into these powerex modules?
[22:37:01] <skunkworks> No
[22:37:15] <skunkworks> You should ask jmkasunich
[22:37:39] <geo01005> Here is a link for a data sheet http://www.pwrx.com/pwrx/docs/ps21765.pdf
[22:38:25] <geo01005> skunkworks: So the pictures you posted earlier were igbt not fets?
[22:38:32] <skunkworks> yes
[22:40:59] <skunkworks> these are what I have
[22:41:00] <skunkworks> http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irg4pf50wd.pdf
[22:42:22] <geo01005> You still have to come up with the high side switching supply for that device though right?
[22:43:15] <skunkworks> yes - IR21844 -
[22:43:17] <geo01005> I assume you are using all N channel switches.
[22:43:23] <skunkworks> that package looks pretty cool
[22:43:25] <skunkworks> yes
[22:44:46] <geo01005> They have some application notes on their website that go though all the power stage design.
[22:45:02] <geo01005> I though that I might be able to build a whole driver for about $50.
[22:45:21] <geo01005> How does that compare to your discrete design?
[22:48:10] <skunkworks> I don't know if I know enough to give you an answer ;) It looks like it is just the power stage.. - I had to add blanking / current limits and such (they actually show the turn on spike on thier traces)
[22:50:44] <geo01005> The device has built in current limits. However I would think it would be nice to have pwm controller to create a current controlled amp.
[22:52:31] <geo01005> I'm not trying to pull anybody into a black hole of driver design, but if you are interested here is a app note.
[22:52:32] <geo01005> http://www.pwrx.com/pwrx/app/dip_ipm_app_note.pdf
[22:53:06] <geo01005> This probably isn't the right place to discuss driver design anyway.
[23:03:43] <skunkworks> I don't mind ;)
[23:03:59] <skunkworks> I don't understand how they are sensing current limit..
[23:04:04] <skunkworks> within the module
[23:05:06] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:05:28] <geo01005> Current is sensed as a voltage drop across a shunt resistor, just like your design.
[23:06:46] <skunkworks> hmm - I guess they really don't show that 'connection' within the package. either that or I just am not seeing it.
[23:07:42] <geo01005> Sorry, that data sheet dosn't show the connection, try this one http://www.pwrx.com/pwrx/docs/ps21765.pdf
[23:08:24] <geo01005> The connection is external. The data sheets are very brief, the application notes are much, much better.
[23:10:03] <skunkworks> ah - I see it in the app notes
[23:10:06] <skunkworks> neat
[23:11:07] <geo01005> maybe PCW could tel us if he uses powerex modules in his 8I20?
[23:11:43] <skunkworks> heh
[23:11:53] <geo01005> tell...
[23:11:55] <PCW> Just going to say, Fairchild, not powerex though they look almost identical
[23:12:18] <skunkworks> I swear he has an alarm that goes off when certain keywords are used
[23:12:36] <PCW> DIng Ding Ding!
[23:12:37] <skunkworks> I have to say I have learned a lot.
[23:13:47] <skunkworks> I think ;)
[23:14:15] <geo01005> PCW: I don't know if you want to say but what model number do you use on the 8i20?
[23:14:18] <skunkworks> I still have to say my current in to the h-bridge is pretty equal to current out..
[23:14:35] <PCW> I think the Fairchild modules maybe somewhat cheaper
[23:14:37] <PCW> The 30A 600 V one we use is around $19 (and it includes the bootstrap diodes)
[23:15:00] <geo01005> That is pretty good.
[23:15:39] <geo01005> I have to wonder how many of them I would fry before getting it right.
[23:15:45] <PCW> Current in should be much lower at stall
[23:16:19] <PCW> Weve never blown up our first one, but we have high side OC shutdown
[23:16:32] <geo01005> I just want to use one of these modules to drive a treadmill motor. dosn't require all the fancy stuff you have on the 8I20.
[23:17:34] <geo01005> "geo01005 secretly wants a 8i20 really bad"
[23:17:46] <PCW> They are a bargain and easy to heatsink compared to discretes
[23:19:01] <PCW> May have a proto or blem if you want to play with one later this year
[23:19:51] <geo01005> That would be nice but I would hate to impose.
[23:20:06] <geo01005> Would the 8i20 work for driving a brushed DC motor?
[23:20:37] <PCW> Old protos are not much use to use to us
[23:20:39] <PCW> Current firmware is just for 3 phase though
[23:21:53] <geo01005> Could I trick it by keeping the hall effect signal static?
[23:22:52] <PCW> probably brush motor support could be added
[23:22:55] <PCW> fairly easlily, just bypass the Clark/Park stuff and
[23:22:56] <PCW> control armature current through one Hall
[23:23:46] <PCW> (Hall here is the Hall device we use for measuring current)
[23:24:20] <skunkworks> pcw: because of bemf?
[23:24:29] <geo01005> sure, so is an encoder usually used for commutation on the 8i20?
[23:24:55] <geo01005> or is it sensor-less?
[23:26:42] <PCW> SW: because really hard to measure 3 phase currents accurately with shunt resistors
[23:26:43] <PCW> (no good time during PWM cycle to sample)
[23:27:24] <skunkworks> I was asking about current in vs current out..
[23:27:59] <PCW> GEO: Normally encoder, we can use HALLs for initial startup
[23:28:00] <PCW> It can also run sensorless, but its really intended for servo
[23:28:02] <PCW> duty
[23:28:41] <geo01005> Hmm, very cool. Well i've got to run.
[23:30:27] <PCW> SW: because the motor voltage is lower than the power supply voltage, so for example if you have 20A of motor current with 20% PWM
[23:30:29] <PCW> your power supply will see a peak load of 20A but at a 20% duty cycle = 4A average current
[23:34:11] <PCW> should have said, : you have 20A of "stalled" motor current
[23:45:15] <skunkworks> huh. I know that my current is correct on the output because 20a = 20ftlbs of torque.
[23:45:55] <skunkworks> I will have to play some more.. Plus I don't know how good my dc clamp on amp meter is - I could try the ac before the rectifier.
[23:46:37] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: how many volts going to the driver? how many volts going to the motor?
[23:46:49] <jmkasunich> power into driver = input volts * input amps
[23:46:57] <jmkasunich> power into motor = motor volts * motor amps
[23:47:02] <jmkasunich> difference = losses in driver
[23:47:22] <jmkasunich> if the shaft is stalled, power out of motor = 0 (speed times torque, speed = 0)
[23:47:32] <jmkasunich> so power into motor = power dissipated in motor