#emc | Logs for 2009-04-13

[00:00:13] <BigJohnT> but i'm learning
[00:00:18] <cradek> BigJohnT: if you grab the motor and twist it off center a bit, you'll feel it fight with you right away (P term), but as you hold it, it will fight more and more until it overpowers you - that is this integral building up
[00:00:33] <BigJohnT> that makes sense
[00:00:44] <eric_unterhause1> and then it overshoots and slowly goes back the other way because of integral wind-up
[00:01:04] <cradek> yes if you let go abruptly, it will overshoot the other way because it's "overwound"
[00:01:24] <wildrice> Yep it keeps increasing the torque till it gets it way, but then it can overshoot. That is the destabilizing part.
[00:01:36] <cradek> that's why you want to tune "I" last - this windup can obscure all sorts of other stuff
[00:02:11] <eric_unterhause1> that's why autopilots all have anti-windup compensation
[00:02:21] <eric_unterhause1> because you don't want your plane upside down
[00:02:24] <cradek> once you get the non-I terms tuned and you don't have much error, you can add a bunch of I and have no real effect, because there isn't much error
[00:02:46] <BigJohnT> cool
[00:03:08] <cradek> but that I will keep you on track if something changes - like adding a bunch of mass to the table
[00:03:31] <BigJohnT> this is for my thc component
[00:04:03] <BigJohnT> I don't know if I'll need the I and the D but was trying to understand it
[00:04:34] <eric_unterhause1> D can occasionally cause problems because it amplifies noise
[00:04:48] <eric_unterhause1> but it's nice for stability
[00:05:36] <cradek> yes D is touchy. if you tweak it a little at a time, you'll find a nice stable spot - less or more will be worse
[00:06:55] <BigJohnT> cradek: do you think I need pid for the thc or would just p do... no mass to deal with...
[00:07:12] <eric_unterhause1> set the other gains to zero
[00:07:13] <cradek> what does it do?
[00:08:20] <BigJohnT> it takes a velocity from the THC board that Peter made for me converts that to voltage and compares that to the voltage setting then applies an offset to the Z
[00:08:28] <BigJohnT> it'
[00:08:36] <eric_unterhause1> what does it do?
[00:08:38] <BigJohnT> it's a V-F board
[00:09:20] <cradek> so you adjust Z until you get the voltage you want?
[00:09:28] <BigJohnT> yes
[00:09:44] <BigJohnT> offset the z motor cmd
[00:09:59] <cradek> you'll know P-only is not good enough if you can't turn up the gain far enough for it to work adequately without it breaking into oscillation
[00:10:19] <cradek> if that happens, you can add D gain to stop the oscillation effect
[00:11:07] <BigJohnT> ok, I'll try and have all to set when I get to testing on the plasma torch
[00:11:25] <BigJohnT> the good thing is I have a floating torch mount :)
[00:11:49] <eric_unterhause1> BigJohnT: does your plasma table work now?
[00:11:54] <BigJohnT> yes
[00:11:58] <eric_unterhause1> cool
[00:12:41] <BigJohnT> I have a floating head with a material touch off switch now but for thin material I need the THC
[00:13:21] <BigJohnT> so Peter from Mesa made prototype board for me to test with EMC
[00:13:27] <BigJohnT> dinner calls
[00:13:30] <cradek> slick
[00:13:37] <BigJohnT> talk to you guys later
[00:13:41] <cradek> ok
[00:15:09] <fenn> wildrice: what sort of junk do you have? i'm in austin and looking for electrical stuff, raw materials for machining, etc
[00:23:50] <wildrice> I grew up in Oklahoma, but lived in Silicon Valley for over 20 years. Got divorced, met a younger woman that lived in Texas and here I am. Been collecting junk since I was a kid. But most of the stuff I am willing to get rid of is crap. I like to play with robotics and animatronics (for Halloween) so I keep a good assortment of things around. But most of the stuff going to the recycle are old books.
[00:29:14] <wildrice> I really miss the surplus electronics shops that we had in San Jose. HP and Apple and Intel and a bunch of other companies would surplus stuff and it was a goldmine. But I am pretty much self taught in Mechanical and Electrical engineering. I am a IBM Mainframe assembler programmer by day. I started off to be an ee, but someone let me touch a computer and I have been hooked ever since. I am only getting to the point where I know
[00:29:14] <wildrice> enough to do the cool things. The internet is great for learning, isn't it?
[00:29:36] <fenn> yep
[00:29:42] <eric_unterhause1> I miss having surplus stores around, but my list of new projects grows much more slowly now
[01:46:57] <L84Supper> anyone here have a machine shop in the midwest US?
[01:48:15] <jmkasunich> the midwest is a big area
[01:48:35] <jmkasunich> from pittsburgh to denver, more-or-less
[01:48:57] <L84Supper> I agree
[01:49:08] <jmkasunich> so, where in particular are you looking?
[01:49:26] <jmkasunich> stuart stevenson isn't in here at the moment, but he has a large shop in wichita kansas
[01:49:37] <jmkasunich> I have a basement shop in cleveland ohio
[01:50:41] <jmkasunich> so a bit more info on what you are seeking would be enlightening
[01:51:01] <L84Supper> just looking for more people to machine things from time to time 10-100 pcs of this or that
[01:51:38] <jmkasunich> stuart does aircraft parts, etc - big shop, multiple employees, etc
[01:51:57] <jmkasunich> I do various (very) small jobs
[01:52:00] <L84Supper> good to know, thanks
[01:52:08] <jmkasunich> I'm sure others here fit inbetween those two extremes
[01:52:10] <eric_unterhause1> I think I may have had dealings with Stuart's company back in my Air Force days
[01:52:33] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/manifolds-2008-04-15.html
[01:52:40] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/pull-blocks-2008-04-01.html
[01:52:45] <eric_unterhause1> seems like there are some people looking for work on cnczone
[01:52:46] <jmkasunich> the kind of things I do ^^^
[01:53:30] <jmkasunich> another batch of manifolds is in the near future I think
[01:54:32] <eric_unterhause1> jmkasunich: is that all hand programmed?
[01:54:55] <jmkasunich> the porting was done with a python program and some ad-hockery
[01:55:15] <jmkasunich> the rest by hand
[01:59:32] <eric_unterhause1> I need to figure out heekscam
[02:01:40] <Goslowjimbo> I've got a question about configuration of EMC 2.2.8. I am running the M7i43 card, and am attempting to run the estop signal to an outside relay.
[02:02:13] <eric_unterhause1> do you have any of the other boards?
[02:03:26] <Goslowjimbo> I am using Axis. When I open up the HAL configuration in Axis, I can execute the signals by typing them in, and get the operation I need (at least, for the moment).
[02:04:04] <Goslowjimbo> Yes, I have the 4 axis servo amplifier and the discrete I/O board.
[02:05:29] <Goslowjimbo> The 7i43 is configured as 3 servos, and an additional PWM for the spindle. The pastebin location is :http://pastebin.com/m6ec573f3
[02:06:38] <Goslowjimbo> I don't think it's significant, but the Dmseg is at this location: http://pastebin.com/d5effbc88
[02:06:55] <eric_unterhause1> so what's the issue?
[02:07:45] <Goslowjimbo> Anyway, when I put the commands in the hal.ini file, I don't seem to get the same action. What am I doing wrong?
[02:08:13] <SWPadnos> e-stop is more complex than just an output to turn a relay on and off
[02:08:19] <SWPadnos> what operation are you looking for?
[02:08:31] <SWPadnos> (ie, when do you want the relay on, and when do you want it off?)
[02:09:32] <Goslowjimbo> The relay part of the hardwired ESTOP circuitry. I want the relay activated when I am not in ESTOP mode.
[02:09:59] <SWPadnos> is there also an input to EMC2 that tells when the E-Stop is activated?
[02:10:38] <Goslowjimbo> There will be when I am done. I am just trying to get one thing running at a time.
[02:10:58] <SWPadnos> ok. e-stop is one of those things that doesn't work so well incrementally :)
[02:11:03] <SWPadnos> (IMO anyway)
[02:11:30] <SWPadnos> if all you want is an output that will be off whenever EMC2 is in the estop or machine off state, then I'd use one of the motor enables
[02:11:48] <SWPadnos> there may also be a "machine is on" output, but I'm not positive
[02:16:33] <Goslowjimbo> estop enable is fed to emc enable, and I fed the estop enable to this output port (P3.041)
[02:17:55] <Goslowjimbo> That SHOULD change then when I toggle the estop button on the AXIS interface. In the hal configuration box, it indicates it DOES change.
[02:19:18] <Goslowjimbo> But I the output doesn't really change unless I type the changes in the AXIS hal configuration box.
[02:20:52] <Goslowjimbo> ***But the output doesn't really change unless I type the changes in the AXIS hal configuration box.*** sorry for the typos.
[02:23:42] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I'm seeing what you're desctribing
[02:23:45] <SWPadnos> -t
[02:23:45] <eric_unterhause1> I was going to use an axis enable signal
[02:24:24] <cradek> the EMC model for estop can be confusing. Poking estop reset in the gui should set off (via iocontrol in HAL) whatever chain of events brings your machine out of estop. When that is done, HAL should notify iocontrol that it is complete, and THEN the gui will show that estop reset state.
[02:25:18] <Goslowjimbo> net estop-loop iocontrol.0.user-enable-out => hm2_7i43.0.gpio.P3.041.out
[02:25:50] <SWPadnos> user-enable-out is only active while the user is pressing the "estop" button (to come out of e-stop)
[02:25:57] <SWPadnos> that's
[02:26:09] <SWPadnos> that's "user asking for enable, output"
[02:26:41] <SWPadnos> err, nevermind that
[02:26:48] <SWPadnos> that's user-request-enable
[02:27:55] <cradek> I like to use a ladder chain like the one in demo-sim-cl
[02:29:32] <Goslowjimbo> OK, I am looking at the wrong signal. But why does it show true after the button was pushed, and false afterwards in the hal configuration?
[02:30:24] <Goslowjimbo> I am very used to ladder logic for PLCs, but wanted to get to know EMC2 before I pursued classic ladder.
[02:30:48] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, estop is one of the more confusing places to study
[02:31:28] <SWPadnos> the names are very similar to each other, there are often "inversion problems" (which is it when Estop is "activated"?) and there are many ways to do things, depending on the hardware
[02:31:43] <Goslowjimbo> True before and false afterwards. (or opposite).
[02:32:37] <SWPadnos> so, do you have a hardware signal that you want to run *in* to EMC2 for estop? (like an aux contact on the main contactor or something like that)
[02:32:51] <SWPadnos> (I know you also want an output to the hardware)
[02:33:35] <Goslowjimbo> Yes. I will turn one of the contacts of this relay back into the EMC2 system.
[02:34:15] <Goslowjimbo> This way, when 1 part Estops, all parts do.
[02:36:03] <Goslowjimbo> I am working on a Bridgeport BTC-1, and it already has some fairly good relay logic for the startup/Estop control.
[02:36:29] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:38:44] <Goslowjimbo> Do you think all of the problem I am seeing is due to the eccentricities of the Estop logic? Or is there a difference in inputting commands in the hal box and the hal startup file?
[02:39:18] <SWPadnos> there shouldn't be a difference between startup and halcmd/halshow
[02:39:44] <SWPadnos> unless you're dealing with things that don't exist yet in the HAL file (like connecting to something that hasn't been loaded yet)
[02:40:02] <SWPadnos> naturally everything would be loaded by the time you get around to changing things in a GUI
[02:42:01] <Goslowjimbo> Right. That brings up the question of whether I need to issue an is_output instruction for each output, and a is_input for each input (just GPIO).
[02:43:19] <SWPadnos> I believe I/Os are input by default, so you only need to set all the -is-output params for the ones you want to use as output
[02:43:40] <Goslowjimbo> I didn't seem to get any response until I issued the is_output, but could already see the pin defined in the hal configuration.
[02:44:25] <SWPadnos> yeah, the massive configurability makes it a bit hard
[02:45:18] <SWPadnos> the driver can't create pins later on, so it has to make the input, output, invert, and is-output pins/params for all the pins, regardless of whether you eventually end up using the pins for I, O, or nothing
[02:48:53] <Goslowjimbo> I see. They're there, just not activated. The is_output just activates it.
[02:49:02] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:50:57] <Goslowjimbo> Ok. I've got my work cut out for me tomorrow. SWPadnos, credek and eric_unterhause1, I appreciate you inputs. Have a nice night.
[02:51:05] <SWPadnos> see you
[02:52:11] <toastydeath> fff
[04:20:33] <Optic> hihi
[04:27:04] <toastydeath> lowlow
[04:31:06] <Optic> so, any 2.3 users here?
[04:35:41] <Optic> i have a question about the blends!
[04:47:02] <tomp> fenn: you in austin texas?
[04:47:15] <fenn> yessir
[04:48:45] <tomp> wow, go out bee cave road :) hippie heaven in the 70's and a nice spot where the creek runs over the road, you hit it hard downhill in a vw bug & spin like crazy :)
[04:50:18] <tomp> there are (were) good surplus houses, old hp equipment, surplus machines...
[04:52:52] <tomp> looks like tai fu here, kinda early for this much rain (no thunder, no lightning tho, just heavy rain)
[04:56:37] <tomp> haha the 'swoopdedo' IS the integral
[04:58:25] <tomp> it means the sum of everything that happened from when you started (0) till when you stopped (t)
[05:00:21] <tomp> i think jon elson posted some nice pix of the effect of each term (PID) (on the wiki )
[05:01:55] <tomp> BigJohnT http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers and ^^^
[05:03:41] <fenn> i never understood PID until i had the motor in my hand and messed with the values
[07:50:18] <Vq^_> Vq^_ is now known as Vq
[09:09:47] <piasdom_> good mornin all
[13:59:45] <Vq> Vq is now known as Vq^
[14:54:24] <Optic> moop
[15:59:32] <maddash> crap, I think I broke Gmail
[15:59:53] <maddash> http://www.gmail.com gives a perpetual http redirect now
[16:03:28] <SWPadnos> not for me
[16:24:19] <maddash> stupid firefox
[16:59:52] <JymmmEMC> When that lil shit returns, tell him to clear his browsers cache
[17:00:18] <JymmmEMC> I hate when he does that... has a problem, then when you try to help he's already gone.
[17:03:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: gmail has always done a redirect, usually it's just transparent
[17:03:42] <SWPadnos> sure. I get one or two redirects, but they're not perpetual
[17:04:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Eh, he problem has been mucking around with his browser settings.
[17:04:37] <JymmmEMC> err probably
[17:04:48] <SWPadnos> yep, could be
[17:05:08] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I meant to ask you something, but I forgot the details!
[17:05:30] <SWPadnos> my answer will be very vague then
[17:05:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Oh, I remember now... how good are you with analog?
[17:05:51] <SWPadnos> so-so
[17:05:55] <JymmmEMC> RF ?
[17:06:52] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: BasicallyI just wanted to know what it might take to have/make antennas. Specrum analyzer?
[17:07:02] <Optic> hihi
[17:07:11] <SWPadnos> depends on how fancy you want to get
[17:07:32] <SWPadnos> you may need both a spectrum analyzer and a network analyzer
[17:07:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: what's a network?
[17:07:50] <SWPadnos> also, depending on how much testing you want to do, you may need most of a test lab
[17:07:57] <Optic> with emc 2.3, should G1s smoothly blend into each other?
[17:08:15] <SWPadnos> network analyzers will inject a signal and measure the response through your circuit
[17:08:19] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ah
[17:08:25] <SWPadnos> I think you also need that to measure SWR
[17:08:41] <SWPadnos> Optic, blending is controlled by G61/G64
[17:08:52] <Optic> the motion slows down when I have a bunch of G1s along the same straight line
[17:09:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ok, I guess it might be better to get/buy a SWF analyzer - they're roughtly $300
[17:09:11] <JymmmEMC> SWR
[17:09:20] <Optic> i'm running in G64
[17:09:30] <SWPadnos> if you use G64P-, mnay short moves will be condensed into one longer one, but that could screw things up if you're using Z for laser control
[17:09:46] <Optic> we're trying m62/m63 now
[17:09:48] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, maybe, maybe not. it depends
[17:10:03] <SWPadnos> but you can't beat the price - network analyzers are in the $10k+ range (minimum)
[17:10:31] <SWPadnos> I think M62/M63 cause pauses, but I'm not sure that's true in 2.3
[17:10:49] <Optic> nah, the code appears to run the same with or without the M62/M63s in there
[17:11:05] <SWPadnos> note that no matter what, EMC will never move so fast that it can't stop at the end of the present segment
[17:11:08] <SWPadnos> ok, cool
[17:11:45] <Optic> i'm purposely making the segments too lon
[17:11:46] <Optic> long
[17:11:48] <SWPadnos> so if you have 1000 0.001" moves, the top speed is "however slow it needs to be so that the machine can stop in 0.001 inch"
[17:11:56] <Optic> oh i see
[17:12:19] <SWPadnos> that's why people keep saying that it's dependent on acceleration
[17:13:50] <Optic> so if I generate all my code with "1 pixel" moves i should get a constant speed
[17:13:53] <Optic> but yuck!
[17:14:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-269
[17:14:14] <Optic> or i could set the feed rate to the max speed of a "1 pixel" move
[17:14:15] <SWPadnos> yep, constant and slow ;)
[17:14:34] <Optic> constant is important for laser engraving
[17:14:52] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, yeah, a network analyzer is significantly more complex than that
[17:15:23] <SWPadnos> it gives you a plot over a frequency range, rather than a meter reading at some frequency
[17:15:39] <SWPadnos> it may be more than you need, if you're not making matching networks and filters to go along with the antennas
[17:15:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well sure, but I'm talking price here, not space station
[17:17:31] <SWPadnos> yep. it depends on what you need
[17:18:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'd like to play with some J-Pole designs
[18:08:06] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[18:20:13] <JymmmEMC> Stinkin Motorola... They went from Mini to Micro USB connectors - argh.
[18:29:10] <toastydeath> http://www.threepanelsoul.com/
[19:08:19] <BJT-Work> hi seb_kuzminsky
[19:15:08] <seb_kuzminsky> hi :-)
[19:16:02] <BJT-Work> I had good success with the THC card and the 5i20 this weekend
[19:16:38] <seb_kuzminsky> great!
[19:16:46] <seb_kuzminsky> that's exciting
[19:16:52] <seb_kuzminsky> is that the thc card that mesa made for you?
[19:17:00] <BJT-Work> the voltage to freq line is flat as can be
[19:17:01] <BJT-Work> yes
[19:18:21] <BJT-Work> I have about 1/2 of the THC comp done...
[19:38:05] <BJT-Work> YEA my new air dryer is here :)
[20:02:47] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: What would the easiest/cheapest way to get 2 or 3 I/O over ethernet?
[20:22:48] <cradek> cut the plugs off the ends of the wire - 7 I/O plus ground
[20:29:11] <alex_joni> lol
[20:37:54] <skunkworks_> otherwise... Some IP cameras have a few i/o's..
[20:38:44] <skunkworks_> could an ip printserver be used? somehow?
[20:39:17] <cradek> you could possibly use a jetdirect-parallel thing for output only
[20:39:33] <cradek> but that would be nutso
[20:39:39] <seb_kuzminsky> arduino ethernet shield: http://www.nkcelectronics.com/arduino-ethernet-shield.html
[20:39:45] <pjm__> JymmmEMC http://www.digidave.co.uk/jshop/product.php?xProd=206&xSec=22 - its home automation type stuff but gives some IO
[20:55:50] <Optic> moo
[21:07:32] <cradek> Dallur: we need you on the map!
[21:10:27] <hugomatic1> hi everyone... I have noticed a problem with my z axis... in order to move 3 inches, it needs to be commanded to about 3.692. I don't want to run stepconf again... is there anything else than the SCALE I can use to correct my problem? thanks
[21:10:39] <skunkworks_> wow - lots of people have added themselves to the map
[21:10:50] <hugomatic1> whats the map?
[21:10:59] <seb_kuzminsky> hugomatic1: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_google_maps_insight/Itemid,19/lang,en/
[21:11:08] <cradek> hugomatic1: just the scale
[21:11:32] <seb_kuzminsky> hey there's another guy in colorado!
[21:11:36] <Optic> moop
[21:12:06] <skunkworks_> huh - mine is gone.
[21:12:52] <cradek> yay, tax refund
[21:13:09] <BigJohnT> yay, I have to pay taxes
[21:15:55] <skunkworks_> huh - For some reason I thought LawrenceG was on the other side of canada
[21:17:38] <hugomatic1> cradek: thanks... I wonder why my error ratio is around 1.2306 or 0.8125.
[21:17:55] <cradek> yeah that's no number that I recognize
[21:18:14] <cradek> what is your screw pitch and microstep setting?
[21:18:17] <hugomatic1> thanks for the check
[21:18:39] <BigJohnT> hugomatic1: did something come loose?
[21:19:12] <hugomatic1> My other axes are fine with the same numbers. I changed the z column because the CNC ization was done poorly on this old Sherline
[21:19:13] <cradek> oh it's only Z?? does it have the same screws? if so BigJohnT is on the right track
[21:19:24] <cradek> oh ok, so it is different
[21:19:31] <cradek> what is the screw pitch on it?
[21:19:49] <hugomatic1> I have to check my invoice... this could take a while
[21:20:07] <cradek> hold a ruler up to the screw instead
[21:20:13] <hugomatic1> I'm on the map too :-)
[21:20:22] <hugomatic1> OK
[21:20:36] <cradek> we don't care what you paid for, we care about what you have :-)
[21:21:08] <hugomatic1> :-)
[21:21:39] <cradek> bbl
[21:22:20] <hugomatic1> cradek, can I port your image-to-gcode to my library? What would be the best way to attribute you?
[21:36:58] <als> a question about tkemc * tkemc: allow user command file for customization on the beta update page?
[21:37:33] <als> I don't see any documentation any where
[21:38:11] <alex_joni> als: I suspect there isn't any :/
[21:38:28] <als> so i'm not nuts
[21:39:17] <als> just wondering what can be done with it thats all
[21:39:34] <alex_joni> I think it should be USER_COMMAND_FILE defined in the ini somewhere
[21:39:44] <alex_joni> and you can change some parameters/values
[21:40:09] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl.diff?r1=1.45;r2=1.46;f=h
[21:40:44] <alex_joni> you can make some changes to how tkemc works, but that assumes you know tcl
[21:41:08] <alex_joni> short change on the users map, it's only available to signed in users..
[21:42:16] <als> thanks alex_joni
[21:47:26] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, west coast! ordered parts from digikey for 3 power stages
[21:48:52] <alex_joni> skunkworks: you need to update your profile information to appear on the map
[21:49:08] <alex_joni> (the first markers we did were manually generated, I had to delete them..)
[21:50:27] <cradek> hugomatic1: if you're talking about image-to-gcode.py in the EMC2 distro, you can do whatever is allowed by the GPL 2 or later... I just checked and the license is in the file.
[22:00:29] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: cool! no smoke out of mine yet... :_)
[22:04:27] <BigJohnT> skunkworks: cool
[22:05:27] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, once I get the 4 fet version stable, I want to try a 6 fet version for some brushless drives
[22:06:58] <wildrice> Has anyone ever used a Vac-u-gun?
[22:07:00] <wildrice> http://www.exair.com/en-US/Primary%20Navigation/Products/Industrial%20Housekeeping/Vac-u-Gun/Pages/Vac-u-Gun%20Home.aspx
[22:07:17] <wildrice> Are they good or bad?
[22:18:50] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260391557002 looks too clean!
[22:19:10] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, this is what you need
[22:20:08] <LawrenceG> kind of hard to get up the stairs
[22:23:26] <BigJohnT> what's the catch LawrenceG
[22:26:44] <LawrenceG> looks like a nice machine... a 10hp spindle and nice work envelope... not actually that heavy for moving
[22:27:00] <BigJohnT> looks good to me too
[22:27:09] <BigJohnT> no reserve!
[22:28:29] <LawrenceG> its close to JymmmEMC .... about 20hours drive from here!
[22:28:57] <LawrenceG> a little to big to load in the pickup!
[22:28:58] <BigJohnT> couple of days from here
[22:29:13] <BigJohnT> it would have to be shipped anyhow
[22:31:54] <BigJohnT> where do you guys get your blank circuit boards from? I went to rat shack but they only had predrilled ones
[22:32:50] <maddash> 'rat shack'?
[22:33:27] <BigJohnT> radio shack
[22:33:29] <LawrenceG> BigJohnT, ebay.... let me see if I can find the seller
[22:33:49] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT slaps his forhead
[22:34:25] <BigJohnT> I looked in digi key but got dizzy
[22:34:54] <fenn> BigJohnT: abcfab on ebay
[22:35:05] <BigJohnT> ok thanks
[22:35:46] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:35:57] <BigJohnT> night ales
[22:35:59] <wildrice> BigJohnT:When you go looking, ask for Copper-Clad boards.
[22:35:59] <BigJohnT> alex
[22:36:18] <BigJohnT> what is the difference?
[22:36:57] <fenn> copper clad is just a blank board
[22:37:01] <wildrice> That is just the name for blank PC boards
[22:37:08] <BigJohnT> oh, ok
[22:37:19] <fenn> otherwise they will try to sell you veroboard or something
[22:37:28] <fenn> anyway, i really doubt radio shack is worth the bother
[22:38:23] <wildrice> They are only good in a pinch, and the pads will often lift on the cheap boards they sell.
[22:38:23] <BigJohnT> can you cut them up if you need a smaller one or is it a PIA?
[22:38:32] <wildrice> Yes.
[22:38:43] <wildrice> A shear is the best thing to use.
[22:39:19] <wildrice> You can also cut them in a table saw, but they wear the blades badely.
[22:39:25] <wildrice> badly
[22:39:31] <BigJohnT> ok
[22:39:48] <fenn> i guess he doesn't have anything right now http://myworld.ebay.com/abcfab
[22:40:00] <LawrenceG> http://stores.ebay.com/PCB-Laminates-Copper-Clad_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsxQ3asstQQtZkm BigJohnT
[22:40:03] <fenn> i've used a crappy old woodworking bandsaw
[22:40:32] <fenn> beware if you are using fiberglass boards it will get in your fingers and give you itchy splinters
[22:40:43] <fenn> just touching the side of the board
[22:40:57] <BigJohnT> ouch
[22:41:12] <seb_kuzminsky> also: it will get in your lungs and give you itchy lung-splinters
[22:41:50] <LawrenceG> not that bad... just vacuum up the dust after milling instead of using the air hose
[22:42:02] <wildrice> I found a place that has pre-cut boards in Canada. The price looked good and I was ordering some Tinnit too. Have not gotten them yet. Slow over the boarder I guess.
[22:42:31] <wildrice> Use sand paper to clean the edges.
[22:42:40] <BigJohnT> ok
[22:46:12] <wildrice> ARBA is the name of the place. They have 3 X 5 single sided for $1.79 each.
[22:48:15] <maddash> what about glass pcbs?
[22:51:06] <wildrice> I do not think glass would work very well. Most boards are made from fiber-glass. I think that that is an epoxy resin with glass fibers in it. The glass fibers are what cause the tool wear. You need to use carbide tools, and even better, the coated tools made for PCB work.
[22:52:40] <BigJohnT> thanks guys, time to chill out talk to you later
[22:52:49] <seb_kuzminsky> enjoy your chill
[22:52:58] <wildrice> Later BigJohnT
[22:53:07] <BigJohnT> I will seb_kuzminsky
[23:02:28] <tomp> i used to be on the map, cant remember any username/pswd,
[23:02:35] <tomp> so asked for reminder, and it says "The email 'tomp-tag@sbcglobal.net' does not exist on this site."
[23:02:35] <tomp> cool, booted from email list, now booted off map
[23:54:12] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Ok, how do you move the sucker?
[23:55:11] <JymmmEMC> it's ONLY 6500 lbs
[23:55:28] <JymmmEMC> and I don't have 220/440 or wth ever it needs =)
[23:55:41] <JymmmEMC> well, not 3ph at least
[23:56:17] <the__goat> the__goat is now known as Inigo_Montoya
[23:56:27] <Inigo_Montoya> Inigo_Montoya is now known as the_goat