#emc | Logs for 2009-03-31

[01:21:57] <jmkasunich> jepler: how are you holding the boards down?
[01:31:12] <tomp> dimas: the queue is a just a list of things that need to get done.
[01:31:22] <tomp> the problem is in the handling the queue.
[01:31:31] <tomp> in milling it's clockwork, (7:00 be here, 7:01 be here, 7:02 be here)
[01:31:41] <tomp> but in edm its 'be on the path according to the gap' (12V be here, -1V be back a tiny bit, +2V fwd but slowly...).
[01:31:52] <tomp> so, both are time sliced, but in milling time determines position, in edm the time is just the gap sample rate,
[01:31:53] <tomp> and the position is dependant on last position and gap voltage error to some threshold.
[01:32:44] <tomp> (may not be the most robust description)
[01:33:46] <fenn> constant rate vs process limited rate
[01:34:36] <tomp> not limited, thats what was wrong with the previous emc edm attempts
[01:34:47] <tomp> the rate must be bipolar
[01:34:48] <jepler> jmkasunich: sticky tape
[01:35:25] <jmkasunich> do you ever mill anything besides PC boards?
[01:35:27] <tomp> going slower than the process is just a way to get 'stabile' ( really to get sluggish )
[01:35:36] <jepler> jmkasunich: not really, no
[01:35:40] <jmkasunich> ISTR you have a pattern of threaded holes in the table?
[01:35:41] <fenn> if you do a moving average of the direction, would there be sufficient space to back up and not hit the other side of the kerf?
[01:35:54] <jepler> yes, but a perfboard (sacrificial material) on top of it
[01:36:22] <jmkasunich> now that the CIM jigs are done, I'm finally trying to get serious about building a PCB mill
[01:36:56] <jmkasunich> I'm going with the moving bridge approach
[01:37:09] <jmkasunich> the rail I have for Y gives a little over 9"
[01:38:40] <jepler> I don't doubt you'll have the knowledge to do it
[01:39:14] <jepler> hm I wonder if I've ruined this sensor
[01:39:26] <jmkasunich> what kind of sensor
[01:39:35] <jepler> either I've got my software wrong, or it never drives the pin with data
[01:39:40] <jepler> temperature sensor (DS1620)
[01:40:03] <jepler> microcontroller drives clock, both take turns driving data
[01:41:58] <jmkasunich> thats the kind of thing that wants a logic analyzer
[01:42:02] <tomp> fenn: thats wedm, (kerf) and a moving average isnt used, the present gap (now) determines the correct velocity and direction (now), no history is used. edm is high accel and usiually very low velocity
[01:44:09] <tomp> oh thats where the other computer is... on the email
[01:44:17] <tomp> byebye
[06:00:58] <UncleG> SWPadnos: u there dood?
[08:26:09] <anonimasu> is there any way to use a serial port from hal?
[08:26:38] <alex_joni> sure
[08:26:53] <alex_joni> either serport (which uses the DTR & co pins as DIOs)
[08:27:03] <alex_joni> or you can write a small component that talks the protocol you want
[08:27:15] <anonimasu> I need a component that gives me a package with a byte of data
[08:27:22] <anonimasu> out on the port
[08:27:30] <alex_joni> here's an example
[08:27:31] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/plasma-thc/mp1000_serial.py?rev=1.1
[08:27:46] <anonimasu> I have a python program in userspace doing it now
[08:28:03] <alex_joni> yup, sounds about right :)
[08:28:06] <anonimasu> though it's a bit slow
[08:28:19] <alex_joni> there is rtserial
[08:28:23] <alex_joni> but I've never used it
[08:28:32] <alex_joni> and it's picky about the serial controllers it can talk to
[08:28:48] <anonimasu> might be better to get a faster comp
[08:28:50] <anonimasu> :]
[08:28:53] <alex_joni> you need to look at RTAI docs for that
[08:29:14] <anonimasu> I'm going to make the plc control ignition and gas valves and stuff
[08:29:35] <anonimasu> I need a way to monitor flame though
[08:29:39] <anonimasu> :)
[09:13:46] <piasdom> good mornin all
[09:20:41] <alex_joni> now this is unexpected .. not really ;) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/30/microsoft_kills_msn_encarta/
[09:22:50] <archivist> hehe maket dominance dont ya luv it
[09:23:00] <archivist> market
[09:23:21] <archivist> specially when the boot is on the other foot
[09:40:01] <pjm_> morning
[12:04:31] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0TjS0N0rwc&feature=player_embedded <-- first test run of my stepper driver =)
[12:19:39] <pjm_> MrSunshine cool! is that a pic driving it?
[12:20:58] <MrSunshine> AVR
[13:11:16] <Optic> bok
[13:17:24] <UncleG> ping
[13:17:36] <Optic> pong
[13:17:45] <UncleG> Whats up man?
[13:17:52] <Optic> not much!
[13:17:54] <Optic> just got to work
[13:18:33] <UncleG> Work =S
[13:19:02] <UncleG> I just got done cleaning these oil soaked amphenol connectors.
[13:19:27] <UncleG> my servos and encoder all use them but they are soaked in cutting oil and shorting out so...
[13:19:45] <tomp> alchohol?
[13:19:54] <UncleG> mineral spirits
[13:21:12] <UncleG> Are you running a servo system by chance?
[13:21:30] <tomp> yes but not emc
[13:21:49] <UncleG> sweet, what size/type servos you running?
[13:21:50] <tomp> yaskawas and panasonics
[13:21:54] <UncleG> oh
[13:21:56] <UncleG> I c
[13:22:24] <UncleG> I have a couple Glenteks, and some magmotor servo, all using tachs
[13:22:52] <UncleG> Working on a X/Y table for my single spindle barloader.
[13:23:34] <UncleG> I been trying to catch SWPadnos in here so I can thank him for all his help again :P
[13:23:55] <tomp> dc brushed motors and analog amps?
[13:24:00] <UncleG> yeah
[13:24:30] <UncleG> care to see what I got so far? (just posted a couple short vids
[13:24:38] <tomp> good stuf, actually better at low speeds ( sub rpm ) than the fancy ac stuff
[13:24:43] <tomp> yeh, id like to see
[13:24:56] <tomp> on wiki?
[13:25:45] <UncleG> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=54858345
[13:25:52] <UncleG> nah I should tho huh?
[13:26:03] <UncleG> there is one more of it in action right after this one
[13:26:47] <tomp> you leave it on myspace and put a link on the wiki
[13:27:40] <tomp> haha i use copleys too on big baldors m55's
[13:28:08] <UncleG> they seem pretty solid
[13:28:17] <UncleG> got 2 of them for $17 on ebay
[13:28:26] <UncleG> with capacitors
[13:29:12] <UncleG> http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/57/l_fb264e951b114044b08ec7d0b0ed8521.jpg
[13:29:23] <UncleG> there is the x/y Im building...
[13:29:30] <tomp> 42x series? up to 170Vdc and 30amp peak
[13:29:50] <UncleG> now all I need is leadscrews.
[13:30:20] <UncleG> I dunno what the specs on them are...
[13:31:00] <tomp> is that ribbing on the top of the dovetails? ( was that dovetails? )
[13:31:14] <UncleG> the V grooves?
[13:31:18] <skunkworks_> I am working with these http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC_0242.JPG
[13:31:46] <UncleG> those are big...
[13:31:49] <tomp> ah v grooves, what are they for?
[13:32:24] <UncleG> those are what the slide...slides on
[13:32:40] <UncleG> damned accurate too
[13:34:27] <UncleG> The T slot is where the tool will go and the motors will drive it forward and back and side to side on those v grooves
[13:35:37] <tomp> less friction less surface, didnt think itd be 'full' contact there. some nice t slotted tables have that, so the work slides easier
[13:37:10] <tomp> dovetail? (dont see the giveaway slant sides) or some kinda box way?
[13:39:21] <UncleG> its a box style that holds it
[13:40:07] <tomp> nice, it can take some pushing and hold geometry then
[13:43:18] <UncleG> yeah, It's actually alot short now, I basically took two really old manual profiling slides, cut them way down and attached them crossways to achieve a small solid slide setup
[13:43:28] <UncleG> the travel is only about 3 inches both ways
[13:43:45] <UncleG> just enough for most screw machine parts
[13:43:59] <UncleG> such as fittings and other oddball shapes
[13:44:45] <UncleG> so, are you using mach or something?
[16:11:28] <skunkworks_> logger_emc: bookmark\
[16:11:28] <skunkworks_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-03-31.txt
[16:12:28] <skunkworks_> LawrenceG: http://imagebin.ca/img/mcguNI9R.jpg
[16:24:27] <jepler> skunkworks_: we want a video of that thing actually moving a table
[16:24:35] <SWPLinux> or blowing up
[16:24:40] <jepler> yes, that'd be fine too
[16:24:56] <skunkworks_> I will probably get both ;)
[16:26:19] <archivist> * archivist expects a hole in the roof from the exploding capacitor
[16:28:19] <skunkworks_> that is with the pluto set to 95%duty cycle
[16:29:20] <skunkworks_> I had the thing stalled at 20a for around a minute just playing around. (that poor motor is only rated for around 5)
[16:30:04] <jepler> when you kill the motor that way, saw it in half and post pics of the melted innards
[16:30:49] <skunkworks_> heh - this is a conveyor motor - it seems to be underrated.
[16:32:13] <skunkworks_> devices barely got warm
[16:34:33] <skunkworks_> I think it would make a pretty decent servo.. Doesn't seem to cog at all.
[17:04:52] <UncleG> SWPadnos: since I can never catch you on here maybe you'll see this and read up. I damn near have my cnc finished, all I have left is to install lead screws and work out ratios =D thanks again for all the help..btw I got a video and a couple pics above)
[17:06:26] <SWPLinux> yay!
[17:06:55] <SWPLinux> you caught me - I'm skipping out on a talk from Ken Mattingly
[17:13:06] <UncleG> :D
[17:13:10] <UncleG> sweet
[17:13:32] <UncleG> Did you happen to see what I got so far?
[17:13:43] <SWPLinux> no, not yet
[17:14:03] <SWPLinux> I'm on the road, so I haven't been on IRC regularly the last few days
[17:14:23] <UncleG> well, whenever you do, just think (heh that dood wouldnt been anywhere if I never gave him a few tips here n there)
[17:14:47] <SWPLinux> oh, I always think that
[17:14:50] <SWPLinux> err, never :)
[17:14:50] <UncleG> lol
[17:15:03] <UncleG> I think your subconscious is talking for you
[17:15:10] <SWPLinux> damn.
[17:15:16] <SWPLinux> gotta get more coffee I guss
[17:15:23] <SWPLinux> wakes up the conscious
[17:15:39] <UncleG> man I got 4 heavy duty bei encoders on ebay for $20 the guys posted that as "encloders"
[17:15:50] <SWPLinux> heh, nice
[17:16:04] <UncleG> one is an absolute encoder....
[17:16:22] <UncleG> like 8000 lines or something... I don't even have a use for it...
[17:16:27] <SWPLinux> I got a nice new Mitsubushi VFD because it was a "Variable Frequeacy Drive"
[17:16:41] <SWPLinux> for $100 or so (1.5 or 2HP, don't recall)
[17:16:54] <UncleG> Mitsu huh
[17:17:13] <SWPLinux> yep
[17:17:46] <UncleG> are absolute encoders pretty expensive compared to incremental or about the same?
[17:17:55] <anonimasu> yes
[17:18:00] <anonimasu> very very expensive in compairsion
[17:18:00] <SWPLinux> usually
[17:18:07] <UncleG> hrmm
[17:18:23] <UncleG> I dont even know how to use it with EMC so it doesnt do me much good..
[17:18:32] <SWPLinux> sadly, they're also unsupported in EMC
[17:18:40] <UncleG> I think I will post it back up on ebay
[17:18:47] <archivist> ew
[17:19:12] <SWPLinux> it would be possible to write a program that reads the encoders and writes the POSITION.TXT file
[17:19:49] <UncleG> lol the one I have is listed at $520 :P
[17:19:50] <SWPLinux> but "homing" would probably have issues
[17:19:57] <UncleG> I got it for $5
[17:20:09] <SWPLinux> not bad
[17:20:17] <SWPLinux> if you can use (or sell) it
[17:20:20] <archivist> nice price
[17:20:30] <UncleG> got any buyers out there?
[17:20:51] <UncleG> there is a slick lil cnc shop down the road Ill call em up
[17:21:04] <archivist> I can think of a use but postage to here
[17:21:09] <SWPLinux> my only use for it would be to add support to EMC
[17:21:18] <archivist> a good use
[17:21:34] <UncleG> trade something? :)
[17:21:48] <SWPLinux> but since I have a set of 3 Yaskawa motors/drives/encoders, I don't need any more at the moment :)
[17:22:04] <archivist> I would like to send the rotary to an absolute position
[17:22:36] <SWPLinux> the only thing absolutes do for you, and this is only if you have battery backup, is remove the need to home the joint
[17:22:39] <UncleG> I don't even know how they work, and I really cant see myself needing one for anything...
[17:22:58] <SWPLinux> once you read the initial position, they (often) are used as incremental encoders anyway
[17:23:30] <SWPLinux> note that they don't always track motion when de-powered - or at least not all types do
[17:26:03] <UncleG> I just called the guy at the cnc place, he said he'll do a swap for a servo :D
[17:26:09] <SWPLinux> nice!
[17:26:17] <UncleG> heck yeah!
[17:26:18] <UncleG> :D
[18:07:17] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, cool... cant quite read the meter... could be all the smoke!
[18:29:28] <euge> hi, i have purchased a mini cnc with steppers, now i have compiled emc and the system hangs when i test the axis
[18:29:57] <euge> the system goes to hell
[18:31:04] <euge> i can't move even the mouse
[18:31:37] <jepler> were you using another version of emc before you compiled it yourself?
[18:31:48] <euge> no
[18:31:49] <SWPLinux> what version of Linux, and more specifically the RTAI kernel, are you using?
[18:31:57] <euge> rtai 3.5
[18:32:10] <euge> and kernel 2.6.19-7
[18:32:45] <euge> the module rtai-math didn't install, but i put it by hand and there is no error message
[18:32:59] <cradek> do the rtai tests succeed?
[18:33:02] <SWPLinux> there is a liveCD available from the linuxcnc.org website, have you tried that?
[18:33:03] <euge> yes
[18:33:10] <euge> i can do the latency tests
[18:33:23] <euge> but if the latency tests are made from emc then the system hangs
[18:33:38] <cradek> hmmm
[18:34:05] <SWPLinux> are you on a 64-bit system?
[18:34:31] <euge> no, a pentium 3
[18:34:40] <SWPLinux> also, were you following the wiki instructions (there are a couple of relevant pages, one called RTAISteps, another InstallingEMC2)
[18:34:40] <euge> here i have a error, hmmm
[18:34:56] <euge> error opening /proc/rtai/latency_calibrate
[18:35:22] <euge> when doing a test from console of latency
[18:35:36] <SWPLinux> oops - Installing_EMC2
[18:35:58] <euge> yes, i followed the wiki more or less
[18:36:12] <SWPLinux> heh. try more, see if it works ;)
[18:36:43] <euge> hehe
[18:36:57] <euge> ok, i will come here if the situation is desesperate
[18:37:01] <euge> thx :)
[18:37:07] <SWPLinux> you might want to try the liveCD. even if you don't end up using it, you can at least test our kernel on your PC
[18:37:27] <euge> yes, but the computer doesn't have dvd nor cd
[18:37:30] <SWPLinux> if that doesn't work, then there may be issues we can't help with
[18:37:31] <SWPLinux> oh
[18:37:36] <euge> can i put it in a usb stick?
[18:37:38] <SWPLinux> yes
[18:38:01] <SWPLinux> skunkworks did that at one point, following some other instructions he ha found
[18:38:02] <SWPLinux> had
[18:38:09] <MrSunshine> euge, usb?
[18:38:14] <euge> ok
[18:38:19] <euge> yes mrsunshine
[18:38:24] <MrSunshine> ok :)
[18:38:27] <MrSunshine> you already asked that :P
[18:38:48] <euge> thx guys, let's try
[18:39:26] <SWPLinux> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/usb-ubuntu-804-persistent-install-via-the-live-cd/
[18:39:35] <SWPLinux> something on that site may help, maybe even that page :)
[18:39:49] <SWPLinux> others listed here: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/tag/usb-ubuntu-804/
[18:40:45] <SWPLinux> oh hey, lunchtime. bbl
[18:48:17] <acemi> 7
[18:54:45] <skunkworks> I really doubt if a pentium 3 will boot off of a usb stick
[18:56:04] <euge> the system doesn't hang now
[18:56:13] <euge> but it doesn't work
[18:56:17] <euge> hehe
[18:56:38] <euge> i have noticed that i can not put the dma on to the harddisk
[18:56:43] <euge> with hdparm
[18:58:03] <euge> and the system corrupt some files with emc, it has corrupted /usr/bin/basename and with this corrupted the system hangs in emc, i have copied basename from other computer and now the stepconf doesn't hang it test mode
[18:59:23] <euge> also another thing i have seen is that in stepconf i put 2000 in direction setup and the system puts always 20000 when i return to this screen
[19:00:55] <euge> perhaps the motors doesn't work because of this. :-?
[19:02:26] <euge> opsss, one axis is workingggggggggg
[19:02:33] <euge> hehehehehe
[19:03:58] <euge> it's the first time i see a cnc, you can understand my happyness :D
[19:07:15] <pjm_> nice going!
[19:08:03] <pjm_> once u have z/y/x axis running, you should hook up an e-stop switch
[19:09:18] <archivist> escape key in the interim :)
[19:09:49] <euge> yes, when this thing works
[19:10:18] <euge> only axis Y is happy
[19:13:07] <pjm_> hehh good description
[19:13:16] <pjm_> time to cheer up X and Z then!
[19:25:37] <euge> ok, all works now, it was the enabled in the other axis were negated
[19:25:56] <euge> i'm going to test emc now
[19:55:37] <willburrrr2003> How is everyone today, good I hope :)
[19:59:12] <willburrrr2003> where can I find documentation on the latest version of ClassicLadder?
[20:00:07] <BJT-Work> one moment
[20:00:33] <BJT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html/
[20:04:19] <willburrrr2003> BJT, thanks for the link
[20:07:45] <BJT-Work> np
[20:08:29] <FaxModem> hi! For the G-Code in the example folder, are they suppose to run at all? I mean on a real machine. I've been getting the "exceed limit" error. But I am sure the samples uses very small footprint.
[20:09:26] <alex_joni> FaxModem: you might need to touch off before you run them
[20:10:01] <FaxModem> actually, I got confused about that too. What's touch off?
[20:10:09] <FaxModem> is that the same as finding datum on the real machine?
[20:10:56] <cradek> homing = tell the machine to search for switches and/or index pulse to determine its absolute position
[20:11:04] <cradek> touch off = set a local origin point for a workpiece
[20:11:34] <FaxModem> wait, so if you click home, the machine should move to find home?? my doesn't do that. and I used stepconf to set it up. ;p
[20:11:49] <BJT-Work> only if you have home switches
[20:12:04] <FaxModem> oh. my doesn't. OK. good.
[20:12:05] <cradek> no motion is another way to home the machine. if you have no switches or index, you will have to jog the machine to the home position and then click home.
[20:12:23] <BJT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//gui_axis.html#r1_3_5
[20:12:35] <FaxModem> I have max min limit switches.
[20:12:51] <cradek> you can home to those then. the options are in stepconf.
[20:13:08] <cradek> you can home in MANY different ways
[20:13:19] <FaxModem> I see I see. Let me read more then.
[20:13:32] <FaxModem> I was thinking I can run the sample G code to see if things run OK.
[20:13:43] <FaxModem> let me read more first. :)
[20:13:48] <cradek> ok
[20:17:39] <FaxModem> is zero a valid value for the touch off?
[20:18:17] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work wanders off to work on his tractor
[20:18:30] <BJT-Work> talk to you guys later
[20:18:38] <FaxModem> bye!
[20:18:48] <cradek> FaxModem: certainly 0 is valid
[20:19:15] <FaxModem> humm. my machine only asks me to touch off x coordinate
[20:19:31] <FaxModem> oh... I need to do it all three times.
[20:20:47] <FaxModem> OK, let me go try. Thanks cradek!
[20:20:57] <FaxModem> I need to go offline because my wireless connection doesn't go to the shop.
[20:21:02] <jepler> often you need to move to a different location to touch off each axis
[20:21:09] <jepler> that's why it only asks one number at a time
[20:21:15] <FaxModem> I see I see.
[20:21:30] <FaxModem> but the sample code should run, at least move the machine right?
[20:22:25] <alex_joni> if it fits inside your machine .. sure
[20:22:33] <alex_joni> but it also depends what sample code you loaded
[20:22:36] <FaxModem> i am pretty sure it should. :)
[20:22:46] <alex_joni> if it's some lathe code for threading, then maybe it won't do anything
[20:22:46] <FaxModem> I am loading the simple "logo" one.
[20:22:53] <alex_joni> ah, that one should work ;)
[20:22:59] <FaxModem> I think the EMC2 AXIS.
[20:23:05] <alex_joni> yup
[20:23:05] <FaxModem> I think... i can't remember. ;p
[20:23:16] <cradek> only if it fits and you have the origin set right
[20:23:44] <FaxModem> OKOK. So it is a procedure problem. Not the set-up. Well, at least it doesn't look like it at this time.
[20:23:55] <FaxModem> Let me go try. :)
[20:24:39] <FaxModem> Where is a good place to post info on my machine when it starts to work? In the forum?
[20:24:54] <alex_joni> sure, or on the mailing list
[20:24:56] <cradek> the wiki or mailing list
[20:24:59] <alex_joni> or here
[20:25:05] <cradek> there is no forum
[20:25:08] <FaxModem> here? how?
[20:25:18] <cradek> just give us a url!
[20:25:18] <alex_joni> FaxModem: depends what you want to post :)
[20:25:30] <FaxModem> picture and sample config.
[20:26:38] <FaxModem> I am trying to do a 5-axis machine. but doing it one step at a time.
[20:26:53] <FaxModem> I can use some input when I get the head-head axis installed.
[20:28:22] <alex_joni> FaxModem: one step at a time sounds sane
[20:28:29] <FaxModem> hahah!
[20:29:08] <FaxModem> OK, let me get back to the 3-axis. when it moves, I'll post something. I hope you guys like it. and I can use more help on the last 2 axis. :)
[20:29:09] <FaxModem> later.
[21:45:06] <alex_joni> good night all