#emc | Logs for 2009-03-29

[00:19:14] <hugomatic1> Hi, anybody with a Gecko g540?
[00:21:07] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: has one I think
[00:22:09] <hugomatic1> He gave me a config file last week and I left it on a computer at work and now I'm stuck... :-(
[00:23:05] <hugomatic1> Any config lying around? I couldn't get stepconf to give me a working one....
[00:23:30] <BigJohnT> 2.2.x or 2.3?
[00:23:59] <hugomatic1> 2.2.8 would be nice but if I could get both I would be in heaven
[00:24:48] <BigJohnT> the 2.3 config wizard one should work AFAIK
[00:24:55] <BigJohnT> what does not work?
[00:25:39] <|dareposte|> the 2.3 config worked for me, but only if i generated a new config from scratch, it would not modify the older config file I had
[00:27:04] <hugomatic1> There are pins that need to be inverted and i don't know wich ones
[00:27:17] <|dareposte|> what drives are you using?
[00:27:20] <BigJohnT> the step pins
[00:27:44] <hugomatic1> gecko g540 pin2 step pin 3 direction
[00:28:04] <|dareposte|> i'd try the step pin
[00:28:11] <|dareposte|> i'm with bigjohnt
[00:29:00] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
[00:29:13] <hugomatic1> thanks for the help
[00:29:39] <BigJohnT> hmm, it is not on there...
[00:30:03] <BigJohnT> but it is the same as the 203v
[00:30:39] <hugomatic1> ok
[00:37:30] <BigJohnT> goodnight all
[00:45:47] <|dareposte|> um what time was that earth day thing supposed to happen again
[00:45:55] <|dareposte|> someone said 20:30 iirc
[00:46:22] <|dareposte|> 20:30 local time..
[01:58:12] <tomp> alex_joni: do you run alibre under wine or some vm?
[02:07:17] <tomp> oooh, a cnczone forum. complete with advertising
[02:08:04] <|dareposte|> huh
[02:09:40] <tomp> catagories invented by users and no dates to see if stale.
[02:10:02] <|dareposte|> is there one for emc now?
[02:11:38] <|dareposte|> someone else was talking about a forum on here earlier
[02:12:20] <|dareposte|> and I was thoroughly confused
[02:13:12] <tomp> i found 2 now! http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=125 (make a user & pdwd) ... and
[02:14:02] <tomp> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/ i just found this ( i no like scattered info, me likes one stop shopping , this irc is good stuff )
[02:16:49] <|dareposte|> i follow some build threads on cnczone
[02:17:05] <|dareposte|> it loads slow and is annoying, but people showcase some good ideas there
[02:17:37] <tomp> how to build emc or rt ? or build mechanics?
[02:17:57] <tomp> build ( compile) or build ( cut steel ) ?
[02:18:05] <|dareposte|> one guy was doing a slant-bed cnc lathe from scratch
[02:18:09] <|dareposte|> followed it for a while
[02:18:15] <|dareposte|> a bunch of clever router designs too
[02:18:31] <tomp> slant bed! he got a foundry in back yard?
[02:18:32] <|dareposte|> people come up with some interesting ways to use bizarre things to get pretty good results
[02:18:39] <|dareposte|> no it was all a weldment
[02:18:53] <|dareposte|> steel instead of cast iron
[02:18:57] <|dareposte|> not optimal, but good
[02:18:59] <tomp> the he has a big wet grinder in the back yard ;)
[02:19:31] <tomp> hope he buried the weldment for a few years inthe back yard
[02:19:38] <tomp> dang back yards are useful
[02:19:39] <|dareposte|> no
[02:19:46] <|dareposte|> i think he didn't even stress relieve it
[02:20:59] <tomp> tap tap tap all over with a little hammer ( or shot peen ), that's relieve some stress
[02:21:16] <tomp> s/'s/ll
[02:21:34] <|dareposte|> i have always wondered how well soemthing like that would work if it was stress relieved in a big oven before machining the rail surfaces
[02:21:57] <|dareposte|> if it would be dimensionally stable
[02:22:23] <|dareposte|> he was using linear rails and ballscrews
[02:22:31] <|dareposte|> pretty simple design
[02:22:39] <|dareposte|> the headstock was flimsy looking
[02:23:03] <tomp> at AGie, we never use mills on castings, only shapers. rotating tool gets all swirly stress at skin level, shaper leaves no stress AND they used a heat room for 2 days on every casting
[02:23:05] <|dareposte|> but anyway there are always some good ideas, at least thought provokers on there
[02:23:10] <tomp> used
[02:23:36] <tomp> provokers... stressful job -> stressed people
[02:23:50] <tomp> mee too
[02:24:23] <Optic> laser etching:
[02:24:23] <Optic> http://www.capybara.org/~andrew/temp/laser/aluminum.jpg
[02:24:26] <Optic> it works!
[02:24:50] <cradek> neat! how are you doing the scanlines?
[02:25:02] <tomp> Optic: very pro looking, nice
[02:25:15] <Optic> run the x across it, move y one step, lather, rinse, repeat
[02:25:23] <|dareposte|> fancy
[02:25:29] <|dareposte|> what are all those blankets for??
[02:25:39] <Optic> not sure, it was something nice to photograph on
[02:25:42] <|dareposte|> is that steel or aluminum
[02:25:47] <Optic> unfortunately the camera missed its focus
[02:25:50] <Optic> oh, it's aluminum
[02:25:56] <Optic> the laser won't even mark steel
[02:25:59] <|dareposte|> looks like extruded
[02:26:14] <Optic> it's just a bit of scrap we found
[02:26:33] <|dareposte|> very cool, good work
[02:26:50] <tomp> Optic 'run the x across it' the CRLF ;)
[02:26:58] <tomp> then CRLF
[02:27:04] <Optic> yep
[02:27:12] <Optic> basically
[02:27:16] <Optic> although we draw in both directions
[02:27:19] <Optic> bitmap to gcode
[02:27:25] <tomp> lf
[02:27:57] <tomp> whats step size and whats beam width?
[02:28:54] <Optic> the step size is 1/500"
[02:29:07] <Optic> the beam width is the finest we could make it, we don't have tools to measure it that fine
[02:31:23] <tomp> .002" ( uh 1/100 = .01 and a 1/5 of that ... had to think )
[02:31:43] <Optic> i'm not a machinist :)
[02:31:49] <Optic> can you tell?
[02:33:30] <tomp> Optic: then you got a damn good ruler ;)
[02:33:45] <Optic> nah, it's based on the step size of the motors
[02:34:04] <Optic> it's theoretical
[02:34:07] <Optic> but it seems pretty accuate
[02:34:55] <tomp> just kidding
[02:35:03] <Optic> we drew a 22" line and it was out by less than we could measure with our tape meausre
[02:35:19] <Optic> so less than 1/32"
[02:36:04] <tomp> when the stuff you make cant be found wrong by the measuring tools you have ... thats accurate for your workplace ;)
[02:37:03] <Optic> our best vernier caliper is made of plastic :)
[02:37:42] <tomp> nice work
[02:41:40] <tomp> maybe try some moire's, they can visually show up 2D geometry issues ( squareness, linearity ) and are nice to look at
[02:43:03] <fenn> Optic: get it, you won't be disappointed http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=610-5030&PMPXNO=948053&PARTPG=INLMK32
[02:45:35] <|dareposte|> i love enco
[02:45:44] <|dareposte|> if you get it, make sure to look up the free shipping code
[02:47:42] <tomp> the greeks make great calipers .. Helios (good racks)
[02:48:59] <tomp> wah! made in germany!
[02:49:12] <|dareposte|> i have a set of mitutoyos, a set of starrets, and a set of imports, and they all measure pretty much the same
[02:50:02] <|dareposte|> i wind up using the imports most just in case i tear them up
[02:51:11] <|dareposte|> the free shipping code for this month is: WEBPM9
[02:51:30] <|dareposte|> $25 minimum
[02:51:41] <|dareposte|> you can order one of those huge granite plates for like $30 iirc
[02:52:19] <|dareposte|> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=640-0120&PMPXNO=949402&PARTPG=INLMK3
[02:52:20] <|dareposte|> lol
[02:52:40] <|dareposte|> $25 for a 12x18 granite plate, shipped to your door
[02:52:42] <|dareposte|> can't beat that
[02:52:52] <cradek> cutting board?
[02:53:17] <|dareposte|> sure if you want
[02:53:24] <|dareposte|> they are positively accurate enough for anything i do though
[02:55:20] <|dareposte|> cradek: do you ever do work that needs to be closer than 0.0002"?
[02:55:33] <cradek> no
[02:55:59] <cradek> mayyybe in diameter - not in flatness
[02:56:37] <|dareposte|> really in diameter
[02:56:52] <|dareposte|> that's down in the temperature controlled range isn't it
[02:57:00] <fenn> press fit bearings should be very round
[02:57:27] <fenn> probably not what you mean
[02:58:04] <cradek> yeah for fitting-the-round-peg-in-the-round-hole kind of work, measuring tenths is not at all uncommon
[02:58:42] <|dareposte|> how do you make a round hole that accurate
[02:58:43] <|dareposte|> ream it?
[02:58:47] <cradek> yes
[02:58:51] <cradek> or bore
[02:58:57] <|dareposte|> do reamers come in tenths?
[02:59:01] <cradek> definitely
[02:59:18] <cradek> especially smaller sizes
[02:59:31] <cradek> I have a .2497/.2510 set for press and free fits of dowel pins
[02:59:52] <|dareposte|> huh
[03:01:16] <|dareposte|> i always though 0.0005" would be my ultimate goal
[03:01:32] <|dareposte|> now i learn that i should shoot for 0.0003" or better!
[03:01:44] <cradek> depends very much on what you are doing
[03:02:05] <|dareposte|> i definitely fit bearings and dowel pins
[03:02:13] <|dareposte|> substandardly it seems :)
[03:02:21] <cradek> heh
[03:03:06] <|dareposte|> i can't ever get a bore gauge to read the same within a half thou three times in a row
[03:03:23] <cradek> what kind?
[03:03:26] <|dareposte|> one of those telescoping things that springs open
[03:03:34] <cradek> yeah, those are very hard to use
[03:04:25] <cradek> do you have good ones? I foolishly bought some imports that are totally unusable - then I bought real ones
[03:04:32] <|dareposte|> yeah i have a good set of those
[03:04:39] <|dareposte|> i'm a sucker for import tools though
[03:04:57] <cradek> me too - sometimes they're ok - sometimes you end up buying twice.
[03:05:14] <fenn> i've found that internal calipers with rounded tips work fairly well
[03:05:29] <|dareposte|> fenn: that's usually what I wind up using
[03:05:42] <|dareposte|> sort of jiggle them around until you get the maximum reading, then turn and repeat to check
[03:05:48] <fenn> right
[03:05:53] <tomp> maybe find a used set of pin gauges, at a machinery auction
[03:06:16] <cradek> these work ok (but this is a well-worn example) http://www.taclatch.com/tooling/Indical.JPG
[03:06:42] <|dareposte|> i saw one once that had three arms somehow linked to a measurement device
[03:06:45] <fenn> how does that work?
[03:06:47] <cradek> you can set it with gage blocks and then get the difference between your bore and the set value
[03:07:17] <cradek> indicator mounts on the top arm, right side
[03:07:24] <cradek> points go on the top and bottom, left side
[03:07:47] <cradek> adjust the screw for a zero on the dial when the left points are the right distance apart
[03:08:31] <fenn> so the indicator presses against the body of the tool?
[03:08:34] <cradek> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/217twwvvL4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg
[03:08:39] <cradek> this is a little better picture
[03:08:44] <fenn> ok
[03:09:01] <tomp> iirc, the old HomeShopMachinist had a DIY version ( but that could be back to the 70's )
[03:09:07] <DanielFalck1> tomp: we use gage pins a lot at work for go not/go dimensions- works very well
[03:09:31] <cradek> DanielFalck1: that's got to be the easiest - but I can't afford them - too many sizes
[03:09:51] <tomp> yep. relies on feel rather than eyesight
[03:10:03] <DanielFalck1> you can also make your own standards if you have something good to measure the od with
[03:10:07] <fenn> you can make your own gage pins if you have the right tools to start with :0
[03:10:19] <fenn> dan beat me to it
[03:10:22] <cradek> the good thing about the indical is it lets you "feel" for the max in the bore by watching the dial
[03:10:26] <tomp> they backyard cylinder grinder?
[03:10:42] <fenn> tomp: i bet a lathe and carbide tooling would be fine
[03:11:00] <tomp> .0105 dia? ;)
[03:11:09] <fenn> ... a good lathe
[03:11:13] <cradek> with the telescoping gauges you have to trust they found the center on the one pass through
[03:11:49] <DanielFalck1> start buying the gage pins as you need them- for $2.00 each in the smaller sizes
[03:12:03] <cradek> yes - I have done that
[03:12:17] <tomp> also the split ball gauges, a tread expands between the split halves, thread goes down the post that you hold onto
[03:12:29] <cradek> but I lust after the 0-1" by .001 set
[03:12:51] <fenn> too bad you can't stack them like gage blocks
[03:13:11] <|dareposte|> wow
[03:13:18] <tomp> thers's trick 'three wire' in the machinists handbook
[03:13:26] <fenn> yeah but lots of funny math
[03:13:28] <cradek> I've seen pics of half-round gage blocks
[03:13:34] <|dareposte|> the import "economy" grade gage blocks are claimed to be accurate to 0.00005"
[03:13:37] <tomp> use 3 pins to measure large
[03:13:42] <|dareposte|> what are the good ones good to/??
[03:13:59] <fenn> |dareposte|: depends how much you want to pay
[03:14:16] <DanielFalck1> I got news for you- Starrett and the gang are importing most of their gage block sets now too
[03:14:26] <DanielFalck1> I've talked with them about it
[03:14:35] <DanielFalck1> they 'check' them here
[03:14:41] <cradek> sure they do
[03:14:41] <DanielFalck1> which is fine
[03:15:14] <DanielFalck1> B&S and most of them in this country do the same
[03:15:25] <DanielFalck1> but, if they are right, they are right
[03:15:34] <DanielFalck1> they send a cert with them
[03:15:37] <tomp> google 'wringing' gauge blocks ( do people do that still? do they keep a chamois in the box ? )
[03:15:44] <DanielFalck1> I do
[03:15:59] <cradek> how else could you use them?
[03:15:59] <tomp> i wipe them on forearm ;) grinder hand chamois
[03:16:20] <fenn> my condolences
[03:16:23] <|dareposte|> i have too much metal flakes embedded in my forearm
[03:16:39] <|dareposte|> might scratch them
[03:17:24] <|dareposte|> moving that dang mill i got, they must have machined a bunch of spring steel on it because it was covered in microscopic metal slivers
[03:17:32] <|dareposte|> i've never seen the likes of it before
[03:17:40] <DanielFalck1> cradek: do you have any neat regex tricks having to do with gcode? I'm playing with python regex right now and am having some fun with it...
[03:18:22] <cradek> not really - I think regexes are probably not a great way to manipulate gcode
[03:18:30] <DanielFalck1> I want to make a 'macro' syntax converter - make existing gcode have variables embedded
[03:18:57] <DanielFalck1> cradek: do you think they're too easy to mess up?
[03:19:26] <DanielFalck1> I've found plenty of ways of messing up :)
[03:19:28] <cradek> gcode is too complicated - you probably end up handling only a subset of gcode - might be ok for your application.
[03:19:47] <DanielFalck1> Yes, probably too much for a lot of programs
[03:20:11] <DanielFalck1> I can probably just keep some of the functions handy for sections of code
[03:21:08] <tomp> expand this plz... make existing gcode have variables embedded
[03:21:46] <DanielFalck1> take G1X1.00Y.005 and make it G1X[1.00*#11]Y[.005*#11]
[03:21:50] <DanielFalck1> for scaling
[03:22:10] <tomp> ah, dp you have a parserr already?
[03:22:17] <DanielFalck1> I had to do some engraving of logos and serial numbers at work yesterday
[03:22:38] <DanielFalck1> I made a crude one for just a section of code that was pretty homogonous
[03:22:45] <DanielFalck1> all X Y coords
[03:23:02] <DanielFalck1> I fed in that section and copied it from the terminal
[03:24:19] <cradek> for a simple thing like that, replace X with X[ replace Y with *#11]Y[ and replace $ with *#11]
[03:24:43] <fenn> aww no placeholders? :)
[03:24:44] <cradek> it doesn't have to be any more complicated
[03:25:02] <DanielFalck1> yea I did some with the text editor like that too
[03:25:14] <tomp> a bazillion years ago, wrote a parser, gcolde lines to a struct, list of structs to a file. take the value of X and string substitute "[%s*%s], xval, xscale]
[03:25:36] <cradek> IMO that kind of thing should be built based on the sai
[03:26:05] <DanielFalck1> I'm also trying to learn python more- because I really like it (my hammer...)
[03:27:13] <tomp> i think i saw python parsers for gcode, then its just substitution and line formatting
[03:27:39] <cradek> to parse emc's gcode you should use emc's parser - anything else is pretty certain to get it wrong :-/
[03:27:53] <cradek> I understand wanting to learn how to use a certain hammer though
[03:28:16] <tomp> lotsa google hits for 'python gcode parser'
[03:28:22] <cradek> just don't think it's a hammer problem if you end up with a bent ... metaphor clash
[03:28:57] <cradek> Results 1 - 10 of about 3,790 for gcode hammer.
[03:28:58] <cradek> haha
[03:29:01] <DanielFalck1> I was at work and our cnc programmer gave me the gcode from Gibbs - so no emc or Heekscad involved with the particular code
[03:29:27] <DanielFalck1> If I did it from Heeks, I could alter the post
[03:30:06] <DanielFalck1> tomp: bytecolor showed up in #cam today
[03:30:17] <cradek> * cradek mumbles about how someone should put scaling in the interp
[03:30:33] <DanielFalck1> and mirroring
[03:30:40] <DanielFalck1> rotation..
[03:32:35] <fenn> DanielFalck1: i think you wanted to do something like re.sub("X(\d?(\.\d+)?)", r"[\1*#11]", foo)
[03:33:06] <fenn> pesky decimal points
[03:33:51] <fenn> where foo = "G1X1.00Y.005"
[03:34:22] <DanielFalck1> something lie that-
[03:34:24] <DanielFalck1> like
[03:34:35] <tomp> DanielFalck1: thx
[03:34:47] <DanielFalck1> tomp: he's doing all right
[03:35:04] <DanielFalck1> he found a place to live and has cleaned up
[03:35:10] <tomp> DanielFalck1: cool, will visit
[03:35:37] <tomp> DanielFalck1: you can even tilt the axis in such a post-processor :)
[03:35:54] <DanielFalck1> yes
[03:36:25] <tomp> chg circles into long lists of tiny 3d vectors
[03:38:07] <tomp> in several shops doing hsm, i saw no g2/g3, only linear. i figger smart ass cad systems trying to out think or avoid cnc's planners
[03:38:35] <tomp> water run ! bbl8r
[03:38:43] <DanielFalck1> see ya
[03:40:38] <DanielFalck1> fenn: re.sub("(\d+\.*\d+)", r"[\1*#11]", foo)
[03:41:29] <fenn> the first + will fail on your example for Y
[03:41:41] <fenn> there's no number before the decimal
[03:41:48] <DanielFalck1> seems to work
[03:42:45] <DanielFalck1> 'X[10.00*#11]Y[10.99*#11]'
[03:43:10] <DanielFalck1> for xy coords
[03:43:26] <fenn> i must be misunderstanding something then
[03:43:44] <DanielFalck1> thanks for the inspiration- I was doing it with a re.search
[03:43:54] <DanielFalck1> and some if statements
[03:44:04] <fenn> will Y.[005 work?
[03:44:26] <DanielFalck1> you're right there
[03:45:41] <fenn> re.sub("(X|Y)(\d?(\.\d+)?)", r"\1[\2*#11]", foo)
[03:45:53] <DanielFalck1> re.sub("(\d*\.*\d+)", r"[\1*#11]", foo)
[03:46:06] <DanielFalck1> for any axis
[03:46:18] <DanielFalck1> but X|Y is right to limit to just XY
[03:47:33] <DanielFalck1> but, that didn't work
[03:47:47] <DanielFalck1> I got "(X|Y)(\d?(\.\d+)?)", r"\1[\2*#11]", foo)
[03:47:50] <DanielFalck1> whoops
[03:47:57] <DanielFalck1> X[1*#11]0.00Y[.99*#11]
[03:48:43] <fenn> change first \d to \d+
[03:49:02] <fenn> yay unit testing :)
[03:49:35] <fenn> \d+?
[03:51:53] <fenn> if i deposit cash into an out of state ATM, does the cash have to travel back to my bank before it gets credited?
[03:52:37] <fenn> (this is all digikey's fault)
[03:53:05] <DanielFalck1> I don't know, but if your bank is one of the majors it shouldn't matter should it?
[03:53:36] <fenn> my bank is IU credit union - supposedly they have a nationwide credit union network but my card doesn't have the logo on it
[04:00:07] <tomp> is that bash scripting?
[04:00:17] <DanielFalck1> python regular expressions
[04:00:38] <DanielFalck1> or just regular expressions- language independent
[04:00:58] <DanielFalck1> it's the same in different languages perl, python etc
[04:01:10] <fenn> ostensibly
[04:05:33] <tomp> hahaha "So, for example, \( \) is now ( ) and \{ \} is now { }. " its too amusing to read
[04:06:12] <tomp> especially out loud
[04:06:34] <fenn> -_-
[04:07:12] <fenn> about as amusing as a whitworth bolt
[04:09:18] <tomp> http://nedbatchelder.com/text/python-parsers.html
[04:09:28] <tomp> and i have whitworth wrenches
[04:09:38] <tomp> for brit cars
[04:10:03] <DanielFalck1> tomp: thanks
[04:29:09] <tomp> fwiw the effbot 'simple top down python parser' seems handy http://effbot.org/zone/simple-top-down-parsing.htm#building-parse-trees
[04:34:16] <tomp> have you found any need to backtrack? or is the parsing strictly forward ( eg: *cp++ )
[04:34:46] <DanielFalck1> backtracking would be cool in some cases
[04:35:39] <tomp> so backtracking infers some context
[04:38:47] <tomp> i can see context between lines . aka modes like this must be a G1 move because... it didnt say g1/2/3,, but it has 2 coords in the current plane
[04:40:54] <tomp> oh, and the last interp mode was G1
[04:41:37] <DanielFalck1> a lot of if thens
[04:42:08] <tomp> ... last conseq interp mode ( the rules are tricky and can get messy unless youre very careful.)
[04:42:51] <tomp> in the struct we had mode flags ( one struct for one gcode line )
[04:46:24] <tomp> i cannot easily convert structs to tuples
[04:48:07] <tomp> (pythom-challenged)
[09:16:55] <xyzee> Is there anyone there who can help me with v cutting some text into wood? I am using G64 P0.005 but the cutter slows down at certain points and burns the timber.
[09:18:17] <xyzee> I am working in mm
[09:21:28] <alex_joni> then 0.005 is probably way too small for mm
[09:21:39] <alex_joni> that is 0.005 mm..
[09:21:53] <alex_joni> I doubt you can see that when carving
[09:22:00] <alex_joni> even 0.05 is too tiny
[09:22:06] <alex_joni> try 0.1 or so
[09:22:31] <micges> morning all
[09:22:50] <alex_joni> hi micges
[09:24:28] <micges> xyzee: 0.01 - 0.05 is the minimum that will be ever works on mm machine
[09:25:03] <alex_joni> even less will work, but will make no sense
[09:25:18] <micges> exactly
[09:25:29] <alex_joni> 5 microns is a bit too tiny ;)
[09:28:12] <micges> alex_joni: how can I merge locally joint_axes branch to trunk ?
[09:28:57] <micges> cvs co branch and then merge ?
[09:41:25] <alex_joni> why do you want to merge it?
[09:41:48] <alex_joni> I think it works by checking out TRUNK, then cvs up -rjoint_axes
[09:41:54] <alex_joni> or something like that
[09:42:55] <micges> I want to get trunk and make all changes from joint_axes
[09:43:07] <alex_joni> then what? ;)
[09:43:19] <alex_joni> joint_axes is seriously busted at the moment
[09:43:26] <alex_joni> I think jogging doesn't even work
[09:43:32] <micges> to not making changes that are already done
[09:43:53] <micges> oh
[09:43:58] <alex_joni> the problem is getting joint_axes working first
[09:44:05] <alex_joni> merging with TRUNK is a sideissue
[09:44:20] <alex_joni> getting it to work means coming up with a coherent design first
[09:44:24] <alex_joni> that's where I stopped
[09:44:39] <micges> I want only translation and last bugfixes from trunk
[09:45:12] <micges> design of internals emc ?
[09:45:16] <alex_joni> yes
[09:45:31] <alex_joni> how jogging should work (for carthesian and special kins machines)
[09:45:50] <alex_joni> all that silly teleop & such
[09:46:10] <micges> teleop doesn't working on trunk even
[09:46:32] <alex_joni> it does for me
[09:46:42] <alex_joni> using scara and puma sample configs
[09:47:40] <micges> for me using gantry isn't
[09:48:15] <micges> I've mentioned that soft limits aren't working
[09:48:33] <alex_joni> soft limits sure can't work
[09:48:47] <alex_joni> that's also part of the needed redesign
[09:49:03] <alex_joni> but I'm not sure how to implement soft limits on nontrivkins
[09:49:21] <alex_joni> (besides the usual joint limits which can be checked)
[09:49:47] <micges> after study source I saw many things that must be redesigned (rewrite)
[09:49:55] <alex_joni> I agree
[09:50:11] <micges> do you have any plan ?
[09:50:11] <alex_joni> but starting coding without a proper design is useless :/
[09:50:20] <micges> I agree
[09:50:49] <alex_joni> well.. I did some of the hard part of fixing some confusion from axes to joints in the code
[09:51:12] <micges> but not all
[09:51:40] <micges> configs and message names are still to do
[09:51:51] <alex_joni> but I'm hoping that jmkasunich will free up in the future (maybe others too), so we can start talking about the design
[09:52:10] <alex_joni> configs are partly working
[09:52:23] <alex_joni> I think I got all message names (except jogging)
[09:52:35] <alex_joni> there would be AXIS too.. didn't really hack that
[09:55:17] <micges> now I have TWO projects that use many JOINTS and I want emc drive them
[09:55:53] <micges> I didn't like make it in hal and electronics
[09:56:07] <alex_joni> how many joints?
[09:56:12] <micges> 18
[09:56:17] <alex_joni> and how do you plan for the g-code to work?
[09:56:55] <micges> well
[09:57:41] <micges> select joint
[09:57:55] <micges> and Gn Wn
[09:58:17] <micges> oh thats silly :|
[09:58:51] <micges> beside that I want to home them individually
[10:00:15] <alex_joni> if you have them defined as joints, you can home them individually
[10:00:26] <alex_joni> but I don't see how you can drive 18 joints from g-code
[10:01:45] <micges> its XYZ gantry table mill
[10:01:52] <micges> with 10 spindles
[10:02:05] <micges> on individual 10 axes
[10:02:13] <alex_joni> Z axes?
[10:02:26] <micges> and eventually some of them witll be rotate
[10:02:30] <micges> yes Z axes
[10:02:33] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is trying to imagine how it looks
[10:02:42] <alex_joni> so something like a big plasma table?
[10:02:48] <alex_joni> with 10 heads?
[10:02:52] <micges> and I want to sequence homing of them
[10:03:00] <micges> yes
[10:03:20] <alex_joni> the ones I've seen work 2.5D
[10:03:32] <alex_joni> so the Z axes are only M-codes
[10:03:39] <alex_joni> and height following
[10:04:58] <micges> plan are:
[10:05:10] <micges> can set origin of individual Z
[10:05:20] <micges> can jog every z
[10:05:29] <micges> can home every z
[10:05:44] <micges> can home all axes in sequence
[10:06:09] <micges> gcode is simple 3axis
[10:06:19] <micges> rest is done in kins
[10:07:41] <micges> can be done if there was joint_axes done and can config emc to have 3 axes and 18 joints
[10:08:11] <micges> or minimal 13 joints
[10:08:43] <micges> sorry 12 joints (x + y + 10*z)
[10:09:24] <fenn> how can you specify a point in space with 10 z axes?
[10:09:58] <fenn> i mean, you're trying to move 10 separate things right?
[10:10:27] <micges> no program will be simple height following
[10:10:27] <fenn> so you need to be able to describe 10 points in space (they might be linked together in x/y for instance)
[10:11:05] <fenn> hmm. that doesn't sound like kinematics to me
[10:11:59] <fenn> where does the height info come from?
[10:12:27] <micges> encoders
[10:13:00] <fenn> not torch height sensor or sonar or something?
[10:13:48] <micges> no
[10:14:53] <alex_joni> what's the application?
[10:15:00] <alex_joni> milling?
[10:15:04] <micges> yes
[10:15:13] <micges> in wood
[10:15:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni tries to imagine what the 10 heads are doing..
[10:15:24] <alex_joni> are they doing the same thing?
[10:15:27] <micges> yes
[10:15:31] <alex_joni> I mean .. exactly the same thing?
[10:15:45] <micges> its for 1000s of same thing
[10:15:45] <fenn> at different Z heights
[10:15:49] <micges> yes
[10:16:04] <alex_joni> so joints[2..11] = axis.z.position ?
[10:16:07] <alex_joni> in the kins
[10:16:14] <micges> diffrent height = home offset and some user offset
[10:16:26] <micges> yep
[10:16:30] <alex_joni> user offset as a HAL parameter to the kins file
[10:16:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't see another way for that
[10:16:46] <alex_joni> parameter/pin, whatever
[10:16:53] <alex_joni> maybe coming from a pyvcp panel
[10:17:01] <alex_joni> or set from g-code with Mxx
[10:17:03] <micges> soemthing like that
[10:17:09] <alex_joni> sounds good
[10:17:22] <alex_joni> but yes, I think we need to fix joints_axes for this
[10:17:37] <fenn> not especially
[10:17:59] <alex_joni> or fix some borked things in TRUNK
[10:18:00] <micges> after reading I think maybe not
[10:18:13] <fenn> ok.. i'm not up to date on what's broken :)
[10:18:53] <fenn> joints vs axes only really comes into play with rotary joints
[10:19:14] <alex_joni> fenn: I'm talking about something else
[10:19:28] <micges> alex_joni: after cheecking I agree that we need to fix joints_axes for this
[10:19:38] <alex_joni> and in micges's case Z is the axis
[10:19:46] <alex_joni> but 10 motors in the Z direction are the joints
[10:19:55] <alex_joni> 1 axis != 10 joints
[10:20:08] <alex_joni> micges: can you add your special case to http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?IniChanges ?
[10:20:17] <alex_joni> I think it's a good testcase to have and test
[10:20:25] <micges> sure
[10:20:32] <fenn> isnt this just like the dual-X gantry kins?
[10:20:52] <alex_joni> fenn: yup, that's broken too
[10:22:18] <alex_joni> I mean it sorta works, but not as it should
[10:38:00] <micges> alex_joni: ok added
[10:38:31] <alex_joni> thanks
[10:38:46] <alex_joni> micges: I'll bug you when we start doing things on this
[10:38:53] <alex_joni> maybe you have some thoughts to share/contribute
[10:43:38] <micges> sore
[10:43:40] <micges> sure
[10:50:40] <micges> alex_joni: few some questions more:
[10:51:14] <micges> you mentioned that homing in emc can be done better, can you describe how ?
[10:52:20] <alex_joni> I did?
[10:52:52] <alex_joni> not sure what I meant.. in what context?
[10:53:53] <micges> in talking about some thing that can be done by homing but not homing implemented in emc now
[10:54:23] <alex_joni> hmm.. don't know :)
[10:54:28] <alex_joni> sorry.. gotta run to lunch
[10:54:38] <alex_joni> see you later ;)
[10:54:44] <micges> later
[10:59:44] <MrSunshine> i will always get positive voltage at the current sense resistor right? :)
[11:02:09] <fenn> unless your current is going the other way
[11:02:20] <fenn> (quite possible)
[11:03:49] <MrSunshine> well, the exit point is the same place each time ig uess :)
[11:03:58] <MrSunshine> throught the current sense resistor
[11:09:37] <tomp> micges, would electronic gearing fo what you want? slave Z" to Z' ? and home each individuallly?
[11:10:41] <fenn> MrSunshine: your motor might be spinning, acting as a generator, and driving current the other direction
[11:11:01] <tomp> if so, then avoid calling the extra 9 thingys joints, it confuses what might become simple hal-foo
[11:11:33] <fenn> i think that's what he's already doing
[11:11:49] <tomp> k
[11:11:50] <fenn> and he wants the homing infrastructure that's built into emc
[11:12:08] <tomp> Mr Sunshine, check with a meter, the machine dont lie
[11:16:18] <tomp> MrSunshine: maybe describe your driver a bit. i can imagine the ciurrent flow thru an h bridge could always be one way if the res is 'past' the bridge' but before gnd.
[11:42:57] <MrSunshine> fenn, yes but the current that im interested in is the positive right? :)
[11:44:19] <MrSunshine> tomp, its a h-bridge, L298, with a current sense resistor that i put into ADC on a microcontroller to read the current
[11:45:03] <MrSunshine> im not at home atm tho :)
[11:45:11] <MrSunshine> and do not have protection diodes on the driver yet so cant put a motor on it
[11:49:37] <tomp> MrSunshine: the l298has 2 current sense res & 2 whole h bridges http://students.iitk.ac.in/roboclub/roboclub/l298.pdf
[11:50:03] <tomp> MrSunshine: there is a way to 'double' the output, leaving you with 1 sense res
[11:50:35] <tomp> in any case, the voltage at the l298 side of the res will be positive
[11:51:24] <tomp> and your adc can sense the voltage and you can translate that to current ( its like a current shunt and ammeter )
[11:53:46] <tomp> but realize its a tiny voltage and a temporary voltage, a meter would show some average that is less than the peak current by the duty cycle factor ( if it were a light bulb, it would appear dimmer becasue someone keeps turning it on & off a lolt )
[11:54:05] <tomp> lot
[11:56:49] <tomp> i got a lot of good google hits for 'l298 adc current sense'
[11:57:02] <tomp> eg: http://gramlich.net/projects/cnc/motion/rev_d/schematics.html
[12:23:25] <tomp> python radial menues http://fraggod.net/prj/rad_menu/
[12:23:43] <MrSunshine> tomp, aye
[12:23:51] <MrSunshine> its supposed to run bipolar steppers up to 2A
[12:25:59] <MrSunshine> tomp, im sure there will be alot of tweaking, just had to be sure even tho i turn the polarity of the coils that the output current sense is positive :)
[12:29:16] <pjm_> afternoon
[13:27:32] <Optic> moo
[14:16:21] <tomp> MrSunshine: its always positive at that point, the reverssal is thru the bridge, the electrons always come out the same way, they travel different routes in between.
[14:49:10] <MrSunshine> tomp, ok :)
[14:56:37] <shabbir> hello all
[15:30:17] <wildrice> Can someone tell me how the backlash compensation is support to work? I added BACKLASH = 0.003 to my config ini file, but it does not appear to have changed anything.
[15:31:52] <wildrice> when I look at hal config, it shows backlash-corr as zero. or each of my axis.
[15:32:58] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BAXIS%5D-Section
[15:33:17] <BigJohnT> what section did you add it to?
[15:34:10] <wildrice> The axis sections 0, 1, 2, 3 (the numbers were a little different for each one.
[15:34:47] <jepler> hmm, I just did a little test by adding BACKLASH=.010 to my [AXIS_0] section and I see the backlash-corr value change depending on the direction of travel
[15:35:54] <alex_joni> wildrice: what emc2 version?
[15:36:35] <jepler> (and I've used backlash compensation before on a real machine with version 2.2.8)
[15:36:43] <wildrice> stable version 2.2 I think. The one that is installed with ubuntu 6.06
[15:36:45] <BigJohnT> just tested 2.3 here
[15:37:40] <wildrice> In the ini file, I just need to put BACKLASH = 0.003 and not BACKLASH-corr Correct?
[15:38:02] <jepler> [AXIS_0]
[15:38:04] <jepler> BACKLASH = 0.010
[15:38:06] <jepler> this is what I have
[15:38:16] <BigJohnT> yes but make sure you have it in an AXIS section
[15:38:32] <jepler> you can check your emc2 version in a variety of ways. one is by opening the terminal and entering this command: dpkg -l emc2
[15:38:48] <BigJohnT> or help about
[15:39:09] <anonimasu> I've used backslash correction with some really old version
[15:39:27] <alex_joni> I think post 2.0.x should have backlash corr
[15:39:34] <wildrice> It shows 2.2.8
[15:39:39] <alex_joni> before 2.1 it had issues though (vel setting & such)
[15:39:47] <alex_joni> wildrice: perfect, latest stable .. you're set :)
[15:39:51] <anonimasu> my machine has thoose issues, but it works great
[15:40:51] <jepler> wildrice: can you put your ini file online, for example using pastebin.ca?
[15:41:44] <BigJohnT> wildrice: the backlash correction will be 1/2 of what you entered either plus or minus when you view backlash-corr
[15:42:09] <wildrice> It seems to work really great, but I am trying to mill surface mount traces (sherline 5400) and some end up normal and others end up too thin. I assumed that was my backlash
[15:42:11] <jepler> BigJohnT: yeah but that should still be quite enough to show as nonzero
[15:42:31] <BigJohnT> yes
[15:42:55] <wildrice> Let me try. Hang on.
[15:46:29] <BigJohnT> hmmm, 2.2.8 is ok for me
[15:50:13] <wildrice> I uploaded it, but the post number went by too fast. Search does not find it. How do I look it back up?
[15:51:39] <alex_joni> did you use pastebin.ca?
[15:51:58] <DanielFalck1> http://pastebin.ca/1375812
[15:51:58] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/1375812
[15:52:07] <wildrice> yes. I gave it a title of 'wildrice emc..."
[15:52:27] <wildrice> Yes, that is it.
[15:52:42] <alex_joni> wildrice: looks ok
[15:56:17] <wildrice> I am looking under the parameters/axis/0/backlash-corr. Will it refresh as the mill runs, or do I need to refresh the window somehow?
[15:56:54] <BigJohnT> put it into the watch window
[15:57:29] <alex_joni> wildrice: depends what you use to look at it
[15:57:49] <alex_joni> best is to open a halmeter (AXIS machine menu, show hal meter or something like that)
[15:57:53] <wildrice> That is what I was doing wrong. It is changing now. So that must not be my problem.
[15:58:20] <alex_joni> wildrice: when you change direction (smallest incremental jogsize)
[15:58:30] <alex_joni> you should see the motor move the amount you netered
[15:58:32] <alex_joni> entered
[16:01:39] <alex_joni> I think for axis 0 (X) that should be 64 steps
[16:01:56] <alex_joni> depending on your microstepping.. it should be 1-few motor steps
[16:03:41] <wildrice> The values seem to be changing now. I guess I need to look further. Thanks for your help.
[16:06:18] <wildrice> One more question, is there an engraving g-code test pattern that would show these types of problems?
[16:07:25] <alex_joni> hmm.. not that I know, but you can try some rectangles (even angled ones), and see how it looks
[16:07:35] <alex_joni> maybe the spiral that's in the sample nc files dir
[16:08:08] <Optic> the spiral showed off our problems
[16:08:17] <Optic> the other thing we did is radial lines from a single point
[16:08:20] <Optic> at all different angles
[16:09:08] <jepler> with a dial indicator you can measure backlash
[16:10:01] <jepler> e.g., if you move to where the indicator reads 0.000, incremental jog .020 back, then read the indicator
[16:10:16] <jepler> if it reads .015 then your backlash is .020-.015 = .005
[16:10:45] <wildrice> I measured it statically with a last word. That gave me the raw numbers. I will give those suggestions a try. Thanks.
[16:10:58] <jepler> a last word?
[16:11:12] <DanielFalck1> Starrett indicator
[16:11:22] <DanielFalck1> 'Last Word' indicator
[16:11:41] <jepler> ah not familiar with that
[16:12:08] <jepler> doing the same test with backlash compensation turned on will let you see that it's at least having an effectg
[16:14:42] <jepler> fwiw I had a machine with triangular threaded rod in it and backlash improved trace isolation milling .. but not so much that I didn't upgrade it to acme screws with anti-backlash leadnuts. http://axis.unpy.net/01221947885
[16:18:37] <BigJohnT> jepler: http://www.mytoolstore.com/starrett/test04.html
[16:19:40] <alex_joni> are there any famous Starrett indicators?
[16:20:47] <Dallur1> I have a wierd issue reported by one of the guys using the plasma config, when cutting he gets the following using the plasma config:
[16:20:48] <Dallur1> http://imagebin.org/43554
[16:21:07] <Dallur1> There seems to be some wierd extra step at the end/beginning of the arcs
[16:21:29] <alex_joni> does he use lead-in ?
[16:21:35] <Dallur1> it's not shown in the Axis path, only when cutting
[16:21:50] <alex_joni> might be backlash correction
[16:22:04] <alex_joni> I notice it's exactly vertical/horizontal
[16:22:19] <alex_joni> assuming that's aligned with X/Y
[16:22:21] <Dallur1> alex_joni: yeah, it's a bit wierd, I'll check the backlash
[16:22:27] <Dallur1> I have his config, he sent it
[16:22:42] <alex_joni> even if he has backlash there, might be too little/too much
[16:22:49] <Dallur1> all backlashes are 0
[16:23:03] <alex_joni> maybe it's mechanical backlash then :D
[16:23:13] <Dallur1> nah, it only happens when using the plasma config
[16:23:19] <Dallur1> any chance it's gantrykins ?
[16:23:48] <Dallur1> I'm stumped, I as far as I know my config does not touch the toolpath and I don't really know what would do that
[16:25:09] <alex_joni> Dallur1: dunno.. looks odd though
[16:25:23] <alex_joni> maybe he can take a halscope trace around the end of the arc
[16:25:30] <alex_joni> where X reverses
[16:28:44] <Dallur2> alex_joni: sounds like a sensible step
[16:28:48] <Dallur2> alex_joni: thx
[16:29:51] <BigJohnT> almost looks mine did when a drive pulley was loose
[16:31:33] <Dallur2> BigJohnT: It's wierd, I just can't figure out what could do that only in real wold and not in Axis path
[16:31:52] <Dallur2> BigJohnT: which part of the software that is
[16:33:12] <BigJohnT> it is kinda wierd the steps are at each direction change but all in the same direction
[16:36:08] <BigJohnT> I've been looking at your latest configs on 2.3 and poaching from them
[16:37:08] <Dallur2> BigJohnT: Great, it's finally all working mostly as intended
[16:38:06] <Dallur2> BigJohnT: But just as I got everything working fairly well they went ahead and changed the THC units to use a multiplexed parallel interface
[16:38:12] <BigJohnT> I've been using the probe code to set my inital height, I see you are doing it automagiclly
[16:38:43] <Dallur2> BigJohnT: Yeah, I decided to go the whole way , that way I can use the same gcode for routing and plasma
[16:38:56] <BigJohnT> that makes sense
[16:38:58] <Dallur2> BigJohnT: There is still a slight bug in that logic though
[16:39:09] <BigJohnT> in what way?
[16:39:25] <Dallur2> BigJohnT: I have a timer which counts the time from starting to strike an arc
[16:39:38] <Dallur2> and if no arcOK signal is received before the timer expires it's considered to be a failed attempt
[16:39:51] <Dallur2> and if the number of failed attempts exceeds X I stop the program
[16:40:17] <Dallur2> but if the timout is very long there is the possibility that it's still not expired before a second cut is made
[16:40:29] <Dallur2> and then I don't "automatically" re-home
[16:40:57] <Dallur2> I need to make a "clearing" logic that resets the timer when an arcOK signal is received
[16:41:03] <BigJohnT> re-home the Z?
[16:41:16] <BigJohnT> ok, I see
[16:41:19] <Dallur2> BigJohnT: yup, well not really re-home, re-probe
[16:41:34] <Dallur2> and I think I'll include a UI control to turn off the automatic homing
[16:42:17] <Dallur2> This way people can use the automatic problem when they want to/feel it's required but if it's a short move they can disable to speed up
[16:43:43] <BigJohnT> that makes sense
[16:44:02] <Dallur2> bbl, going to do some boat work
[16:44:14] <BigJohnT> ok
[16:44:20] <BigJohnT> is it upright?
[16:45:00] <eric_unterhausen> I guess building heekscad for 8.10 64 bit is going to be one of those epic download/build/fail/dependency search/download/build/fail cluster-----s just like the bad old days
[16:47:53] <alex_joni> eric_unterhausen: there's a wiki with what you need to do
[16:47:57] <alex_joni> and some support in #cam
[16:52:39] <eric_unterhausen> wiki looks like it is for 32 bit 8.04
[16:56:13] <jepler> package names should mostly be the same from 8.04 to 8.10, and they should be the same from 32 to 64 bit
[16:59:44] <eric_unterhausen> I assert that some packages of interest have never been built
[17:03:03] <jepler> you may need to enable multiverse to get the libopencascade packages. http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libopencascade-dev
[17:05:02] <eric_unterhausen> ok, so far doesn't look too bad
[17:06:31] <jepler> bbl
[18:08:00] <avrPhreaque> anyone in here using EMC with a ShopTask three-in-one machine?
[18:12:58] <skunkworks> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask?flav=index
[18:13:43] <avrPhreaque> thanks, skunkworks
[18:13:59] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACvRilmIKDQ
[18:14:06] <skunkworks> that was also done on his shoptask
[18:17:44] <jmkasunich> dat's me
[18:18:45] <avrPhreaque> jmkasunich: how do you like your Shoptask? Which model do you have?
[18:18:57] <jmkasunich> model 1720-something, from 1998
[18:19:08] <jmkasunich> it's a not-bad lathe, rather limited mill
[18:19:35] <jmkasunich> on the mill side, it isn't very rigid, there is only 3.3" of quill travel, and no "knee" or head movement
[18:19:51] <jmkasunich> raising up the work on blocks gets very old after a while
[18:20:06] <jmkasunich> the newer ones can raise and lower the head - I have no experiance with that
[18:20:56] <jmkasunich> the original quill drive mechanism (Z axis) had tons of backlash, I replaced it with a ballscrew as part of my CNC conversion
[18:22:40] <wildrice> What is a joint 1 following error?
[18:23:19] <jmkasunich> joint 1 (probably your Y axis unless you have a non-conventional machine) didn't keep up with the commanded motion
[18:23:42] <jmkasunich> (within the limits that you set in your configuration)
[18:24:18] <jepler> wildrice: if you used stepconf and then turned on backlash, you have to make some other changes.. otherwise, the step generator refuses to accelerate fast enough to take up the backlash, and leads to that error
[18:24:27] <jepler> wildrice: hold on, let me see if I have a link that explains this ...
[18:25:19] <wildrice> That is what I did.
[18:26:36] <jepler> well there's this old irc log: http://pastebin.ca/1375969 (full log http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-12-22.txt)
[18:26:45] <jepler> I don't know that this is in the docs/wiki
[18:32:35] <wildrice> I have STEPGEN_MAXACCEL set to 1.1. So I should set it 2.2?
[18:32:59] <wildrice> On all axises?
[18:33:37] <jepler> yes
[18:35:32] <jmkasunich> 1.5x should be enough
[18:35:55] <jmkasunich> backlash comp is limited to 50% of the axis accel, IIRC
[18:42:50] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I think it's limited to axis accel
[18:44:07] <wildrice> I already have it running with 2.2. seems to be working. Next run I will try lowering it to 1.8?
[18:44:24] <alex_joni> it's only a safe-measure thingie
[18:44:35] <alex_joni> emc shouldn't command more accel than you have in the ini
[18:45:02] <alex_joni> the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL acts as a safety, as it never goes faster than you set it
[18:45:03] <avrPhreaque> jmkasunich: may I PM you?
[18:45:28] <alex_joni> so if (unlikely, but still possible) emc commands a faster accel than STEPGEN_MAXACCEL you get the ferror
[18:45:40] <avrPhreaque> I am a 57 year old geek who desparately wants to build a 1/8th scale live steam locmotive 9or two or three) \before he dies
[18:46:04] <alex_joni> hello avrPhreaque
[18:46:20] <avrPhreaque> alex_joni
[18:46:54] <alex_joni> avrPhreaque: lots in here who like machines, machining, models and such
[18:47:24] <alex_joni> so no real reason for pm's .. except if you want to order some parts from jmkasunich ;)
[18:48:16] <gene> Howdy all
[18:48:49] <alex_joni> hi gene
[18:49:31] <gene> Hi Alex; WWhats the url for counterbore.py? The copy I have doesn't seem to be taking orders very well
[18:50:15] <alex_joni> I have no idea what counterbore is.. but here's the link: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators#Counterbore_Software
[18:52:09] <gene> Thanks, got it, now to see if it does what I tell it :)
[18:52:13] <avrPhreaque> I h ave the first issue of a new mag on CNC Machiningm, which has a FASCINATING project in it
[18:52:56] <avrPhreaque> three cubes, with the second cube locked inside the first, but free, and the third locked inside the second, but free, and all three cubes how holes bored through all three sets of faces.
[18:53:03] <avrPhreaque> all cut from a single billet of aluminum
[18:53:23] <avrPhreaque> (ASlthough, if you're insane, i suppose you could also cut it from a billet of steel) *heh*
[18:53:33] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: turner's cube
[18:53:52] <avrPhreaque> I igott hat mag about 2 years ago...couldn't afford to subscribe, and i don't have access to any machien tools anyhow, so
[18:53:52] <anonimasu> 's
[18:54:01] <anonimasu> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCTurnersCube.html
[18:54:09] <gene> looks like this coopy works, thanks Alex.
[18:54:18] <alex_joni> avrPhreaque: skunkworks here did something similar
[18:54:33] <alex_joni> although it was a ball inside a cube
[18:54:34] <avrPhreaque> Yeah, that looks like the thinigy
[18:55:50] <gene> now to make some mahogany sawdust, i'm making a jig to drill holes in saw blades so i can mount them on my A table & do some sharpening.
[18:58:37] <avrPhreaque> the onlyb difference b eing the one inthe magazine had the inner cubes as independent pieces, free fromt he ouoter cubes
[18:58:59] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: oh.. you break them free
[18:59:05] <anonimasu> after machining :)
[18:59:29] <avrPhreaque> anonimasu: I see.
[19:01:04] <avrPhreaque> My biggest problem with building the locomotives is the boilers. I will never be able to affrod the necessary equipment to build my own boilers
[19:01:21] <gene> Alex: still wrong. bit is 0.252", stepover .125", hole is .625", bored it about 0.975". Am I not understanding how this works?
[19:02:41] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: what
[19:02:57] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: full sized ones?
[19:03:04] <gene> It acts like it making a counterbore for a 5/8" bolt head, and I want the counterbore itself to be .625"
[19:03:13] <gene> OD
[19:03:55] <avrPhreaque> NO, 1/8 scale (1.5":1')
[19:04:09] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: why not just make a tool to press them?
[19:05:00] <avrPhreaque> anonimasu: make a tool to press 3/8" steel plate into a complete tube, ready for welding? *HAH*
[19:05:14] <alex_joni> gene: bug BigJohnT .. he wrote it
[19:05:32] <BigJohnT> LOL, now you have let the cat out of the bag
[19:05:48] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: well.. you tempted faith by writing that in the wiki
[19:05:51] <avrPhreaque> gene: I'd be willing to bet you misread the documentation for the app...try re-reading it
[19:06:02] <alex_joni> there is no docs for that ;)
[19:06:10] <BigJohnT> avrPhreaque: there is no docs for that
[19:06:11] <alex_joni> although BigJohnT could change that
[19:06:20] <gene> I think I got it figured, when I enter data in the hole box, thats the diameter of the bolt shank, right JohnT
[19:06:24] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: why is it so thick?
[19:06:40] <BigJohnT> let me look
[19:06:42] <alex_joni> anonimasu: pressure :)
[19:07:11] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I know, but what kind of pressures
[19:07:55] <BigJohnT> The hole diameter is the counterbore diameter
[19:07:59] <avrPhreaque> Anonimasu: 80-120PSI
[19:08:21] <BigJohnT> there are no provisions for drilling the holes in Counterbore
[19:08:48] <avrPhreaque> 1/4" *CAN* be used, but I prefer the extra safety of 3/8". Steam boilers are bombs, just waiting to explode if *ANYTHING* is not right on the button
[19:08:51] <gene> BigJohnT: Yes, i am telling it 0.625", but it boring about 1.5x bit diameter bigger?
[19:09:04] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: no pressure release?
[19:09:10] <anonimasu> err overpressure valves and stuff
[19:09:11] <anonimasu> ?
[19:09:14] <BigJohnT> do you have the latest copy of counterbore?
[19:09:26] <gene> just got it 10 mins ago
[19:09:36] <justa_> wow.. That cnccookbook site is rather lovely
[19:09:38] <BigJohnT> can't get no later than that :)
[19:09:41] <avrPhreaque> anonimasu: of coourse there is a pop valve, but pop valves can stick...people DIE when steam, boilers explode
[19:09:54] <gene> sorta what I thought :)
[19:10:26] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: well, you could build a small press ;)
[19:10:33] <BigJohnT> what hole depth are you using?
[19:10:39] <gene> 1.0"
[19:10:39] <anonimasu> :]
[19:10:50] <BigJohnT> X and Y centers
[19:10:55] <gene> 0.0 ea
[19:11:01] <anonimasu> ofcourse you need a pretty brutal press :)
[19:11:35] <BigJohnT> must be a bug in it gene let me look at it
[19:12:59] <gene> thanks John, I'll check back after an hour or two, shop is cold & its wet out here today.
[19:17:23] <avrPhreaque> the boiler sheetswould start out as rectangular pieces of 3/8" steel plate, 25" wide and 36-48" long, and need to be rolled into a tubue with the edges close enough to be welded steam tight...That isn no "small" press
[19:19:59] <anonimasu> oh rolled..
[19:20:08] <avrPhreaque> cradek or jepler, are you present?
[19:20:11] <anonimasu> I thought pressed into a tube
[19:20:35] <avrPhreaque> pressed, rolled, same difference, anonimasu
[19:20:42] <anonimasu> avrPhreaque: hell no.
[19:21:08] <anonimasu> it's a big difference in force requires to plasticly deform something with a die and to roll it
[19:21:24] <jmkasunich> I suspect boiler shell would be rolled
[19:21:36] <anonimasu> though you could heat it and roll it..
[19:21:43] <anonimasu> to make it require less force
[19:21:57] <avrPhreaque> how in hell am I going to heat a 2'X4' sheet of steel?
[19:22:13] <anonimasu> propane
[19:22:23] <avrPhreaque> NO, I'll have to have the shell rolled by a professional shop somewhere
[19:22:37] <avrPhreaque> propane? with what, 100 burners?
[19:22:38] <anonimasu> :)
[19:22:58] <anonimasu> sorry I didnt realize they ended up as 2ft
[19:22:58] <anonimasu> :D
[19:23:36] <avrPhreaque> I said, 24" wide by 36-48" long
[19:23:39] <BigJohnT> avrPhreaque: you have a fab shop that has sheet metal rollers to roll it for you
[19:24:02] <avrPhreaque> BigJohnT: yeah, but I am terrified of what the cost of such a job would come to
[19:24:02] <BigJohnT> make it a bit long as the ends will not be rolled
[19:24:15] <avrPhreaque> Bigjohn: yeah, that I know
[19:24:36] <BigJohnT> are you going to rivet it together?
[19:25:50] <BigJohnT> oh nm I see your going to weld it together
[19:26:08] <avrPhreaque> no, I want a welded shell. I don't trust riveted seams, and besides, I don't want to have to rry to cau;k those seams in a 4' long 24" diameter tube *hee hee*
[19:26:31] <BigJohnT> why not just get a piece of pipe?
[19:26:39] <avrPhreaque> has to be welded by an ASME Certified welder with boiler credentials, too
[19:26:56] <avrPhreaque> there is a boiler making company here in Lincoln, but they are NOT very friendly.
[19:27:18] <anonimasu> you know, you can buy seamless pipes too
[19:27:41] <wildrice> The board is done! It came out perfect this time. I am really amazed. Thanks for your help in getting my backlash problems sorted out.
[19:27:44] <avrPhreaque> Anonimasu: 24" internal dimension? HMMM....
[19:27:53] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:27:54] <avrPhreaque> wildrice?
[19:27:54] <BigJohnT> yep
[19:28:13] <avrPhreaque> I wonder if the seamless pipes are pressure rated?
[19:28:18] <BigJohnT> I have some 12" and 18" in my shop at the moment
[19:28:33] <BigJohnT> depends on the pipe what it is rated at
[19:28:36] <avrPhreaque> what is the wall thickness of those, BigJohnT?
[19:28:56] <BigJohnT> these are both 1/4" wall slurry pipe
[19:29:17] <avrPhreaque> hmmm....1/4" seamless might meet my needs
[19:29:27] <BigJohnT> we made robot stands from them
[19:30:16] <BigJohnT> check your local steel yard
[19:30:42] <BigJohnT> you can even get the domed caps for the ends
[19:31:38] <alex_joni> wildrice: great
[19:31:41] <avrPhreaque> don't want domed ends...bot ends will have flat plates welded in, with many holes for fire tubes.
[19:31:56] <avrPhreaque> both
[19:32:40] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT wanders back out to the shop to finish welding an old Busch Stadium cast iron seat frame...
[19:32:56] <alex_joni> avrPhreaque: you have to check if that's allowed
[19:33:01] <avrPhreaque> thanks, BigJohnT
[19:33:11] <BigJohnT> np good luck
[19:33:15] <avrPhreaque> if what is allowed, alex_joni?
[19:33:23] <alex_joni> avrPhreaque: the specs I read on boilers specify you need to have domed ends for certain pressures
[19:34:05] <alex_joni> and you need to have the welding before the round part of the dome
[19:34:10] <avrPhreaque> alex_joni: not for firetube boilers, you don't. Can't. WOuldn't be able to weld the firetubes and flues in place
[19:35:03] <avrPhreaque> All steam locomotioves (modern steam locmootives, not necessarily stiff from the mif 1800s) has flet ended tubular boiler shells, with dozens to hundreds of firetubes and flues running from one end to the othrr, through the shell
[19:37:34] <anonimasu> hmmm
[19:38:47] <avrPhreaque> fire tube boilers are the only practical boilers to use in mobile machines. Alothouogh modern designs for so-called "flash" boilers might be useable.
[19:39:29] <avrPhreaque> indeed, if I ever do get a machine shop set up, one of my goals is to prototype (in 1.5" scale) a totally new concept in steam locomotive design
[19:39:59] <anonimasu> I think rolling your boiler is a fast and cheap thing
[19:40:07] <anonimasu> if someone has the equipment
[19:41:03] <avrPhreaque> yeah, if I can't find seamless tubing that'll work...I just wasn't aware that seamless was available that large
[19:41:44] <avrPhreaque> I have top use seamless tubing for the flues and fire tubes as well, but they will be on the order of 1" and 3/4" diameter, respectively
[19:41:57] <avrPhreaque> probably have about 60-8- firetubs, and about 24-30 flues
[19:42:04] <avrPhreaque> 60-80
[19:59:19] <BigJohnT> avrPhreaque: you can get it up to 72" in diameter and possibly bigger but that is the biggest I've leaned against
[20:00:07] <avrPhreaque> BigJohnT: that is about 3 times larger than anything I'd ever need, I suspect
[20:00:43] <BigJohnT> yea, I don't want to get near any that size anymore
[20:00:52] <avrPhreaque> But such sizes would be useful as a shell for a cupola
[20:01:10] <BigJohnT> it was used as conductor pipe as they call it in the oil field
[20:01:33] <BigJohnT> the first pipe you hammer into the sea bottom before drilling
[20:02:36] <BigJohnT> do you have plans for the steam engine?
[20:04:18] <avrPhreaque> BigJohnT: not yet, no. I would have to decide which p[lans to use after I determine what my budget is...probably the first one will be an A4 Pennsy Swotcher, which is in a book with all the instructions you need to machine and buold the unit
[20:24:40] <avrPhreaque> This Olde Phart is off to take a nap
[21:02:06] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:03:47] <gene> BigJohnT?
[22:04:01] <BigJohnT> I think I have it fixed
[22:04:13] <BigJohnT> I uploaded a new version to the wiki site
[22:04:35] <gene> Goody, I'll go get it, thanks
[22:05:08] <BigJohnT> it actually had two bugs both related to tool diameter <= hole diameter
[22:05:35] <BigJohnT> now if I can figure out why my and2 is not working as expected
[22:09:01] <gene> BigJohnT: Axis says it will goto the bottom of the hole, then make one last pass at that depth, and about 3" in diameter
[22:09:39] <gene> either I'm entering the data wrong or somethings odd nearthe end of the code it makes.
[22:09:53] <BigJohnT> same hole as before
[22:09:59] <gene> yes
[22:11:40] <gene> The code looks good, I'm gonna restart emc
[22:11:54] <BigJohnT> ;/ I guess I didn't fix it yet
[22:14:26] <gene> code is wrong, missplaced decimal point
[22:17:19] <BigJohnT> its giving me the wrong offset for the clean up arc :/
[22:21:19] <gene> worse, not just a missplaced digit, the final cut is offset from the center even after I fix it & reload. Same prob, diff description :)
[22:25:32] <BigJohnT> at the moment if you reduce your stepover to a point where it makes at least one spiral out it seems ok
[22:26:21] <gene> I'll try that.
[22:27:26] <BigJohnT> I know what it is now to find where it is :)
[22:30:20] <gene> that is working, now i'll need to face off about .4" & rehome z.
[22:31:44] <gene> I have about 3" of mahogany waste under it so the facing won't hurt a thing. Thanks John.
[22:33:06] <BigJohnT> sorry about that... I'll upload when I get it all working as expected
[22:33:52] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes out to walk the dog and freshen up his brain with sunshine :)
[22:33:56] <John_F> SWPadnos: Are you using the goal3 motherboard?
[22:34:07] <gene> NP John, I'm just happy you were here when I needed you. :)
[22:45:45] <hugomatic1> Hi, I am trying to configure emc with a new gecko drive and motors. I am at the point where things are starting to work (jogging manually) but when I issue a g0 command, the motors stall. What should I adjust?
[22:46:32] <hugomatic1> My maximum velocity is already 2.5 inch/sec...
[22:52:16] <jmkasunich> accel?
[22:53:58] <hugomatic1> accel is now 5 and max speed is 0.5... which I think is not so bad, after all for my little Sherline
[22:54:34] <hugomatic1> I got the config from SWPadnos and he probably has a big milling machine
[22:54:35] <jmkasunich> I thought you just said vel was 2.5?, now you say it is 0.5?
[22:55:09] <hugomatic1> sorry ,,, max velocity 0.4 and max accel 5.0
[22:55:31] <jmkasunich> ok, 0.4 is the THIRD different number you have given for max vel
[22:56:02] <hugomatic1> But the correct one... and the motors don't stall anymore
[22:56:14] <hugomatic1> thanks for your help
[22:56:20] <jmkasunich> I don't think I helped
[22:56:40] <jmkasunich> since you never really explained what was going on
[22:56:51] <jmkasunich> what the 2.5 (and the 0.5 later) simply a typo?
[22:57:02] <jmkasunich> or were you changing stuff while talking?
[22:57:24] <hugomatic1> 2.5 is the original value from SWPadnos config...
[22:57:37] <jmkasunich> did you ever actually have it working (even for just jogs) at 2.5?
[22:58:01] <jmkasunich> if so, it really sucks that you have to turn it all the way down to 0.4, and you can probably do better
[22:58:21] <hugomatic1> yes, but only with the arrows from axis... when I was issuing a g0, the machine couldn't take it
[22:58:39] <jmkasunich> how fast were the arrows actually going? (the jog speed slider sets that)
[22:58:50] <jmkasunich> 2.5 ips = 150 ipm
[22:58:52] <hugomatic1> 5.8
[22:58:55] <jmkasunich> the slider reads in ipm
[22:59:05] <jmkasunich> so the slider was set way down?
[22:59:36] <hugomatic1> I think it was the default, unless emc memorizes it
[22:59:38] <jmkasunich> if so, then the arrows were a meaningless test
[22:59:52] <jmkasunich> never mind
[23:00:14] <hugomatic1> unfortunately, speaking if tests, the stepconf testing does not work... my gecko is kept in fault mode
[23:00:26] <Vq^_> Vq^_ is now known as Vq^
[23:00:33] <jmkasunich> I don't know anythoug about stepconf, and refuse to learn
[23:00:54] <hugomatic1> old school ;-)
[23:03:14] <BigJohnT> hugomatic1: for testing you may have to disable your charge pump
[23:04:28] <hugomatic1> I thought so, but I didn't feel like opening my gecko box... I'll probably try to tweek things when my machine is all wired up.
[23:06:39] <jepler> ooh pretty http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-119/hires/s119e010500.jpg
[23:11:57] <hugomatic1> jepler: I wrote a little bit of python that I would like to see in emc... what are the steps?
[23:15:41] <BigJohnT> what does it do hugomatic1
[23:15:43] <hugomatic1> Is there a method in place to submit new code? a review process of some kind?
[23:16:13] <hugomatic1> its just a little framework to make gcode generators in python
[23:17:06] <hugomatic1> with 'useful' generators, of course
[23:17:28] <hugomatic1> its online too, if you want to see
[23:17:35] <BigJohnT> on the wiki
[23:17:38] <BigJohnT> ?
[23:18:24] <hugomatic1> its not officially released.... but its here: http://basbrun.com/hugomatic/cncOnline/
[23:19:03] <hugomatic1> BigJohnT: are you a comitter for EMC?
[23:19:16] <BigJohnT> for documents mostly
[23:19:56] <hugomatic1> thats great... how did you get started?
[23:20:11] <BigJohnT> bugging alex :)
[23:20:36] <BigJohnT> looks like most of the generators or similar ones are on the wiki all ready
[23:20:38] <hugomatic1> now I know what I have to do ...
[23:22:25] <hugomatic1> well, you have to start somewhere... I used the wiki for inspiration. The difference is that mine also work online and the ui is 'easy' to build.
[23:22:39] <BigJohnT> hugomatic1: http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/50/13/
[23:23:17] <BigJohnT> most of the ones on the wiki can be loaded from Axis and will dump the code directly into Axis :)
[23:23:45] <hugomatic1> mine too...
[23:23:54] <BigJohnT> cool
[23:24:06] <BigJohnT> what is the advantage to having them online?
[23:24:46] <hugomatic1> I think there are a lot of people using Mach3 and other platforms, or they are simply to lazy to install python...
[23:25:11] <hugomatic1> the web is for users, but when you are coding, the local python is better
[23:25:28] <BigJohnT> python is installed when you install EMC AFAIK
[23:25:40] <hugomatic1> still, you can debug the online programs if you click on a line number
[23:25:56] <hugomatic1> not everybody uses EMC, unfortunately
[23:27:36] <hugomatic1> I think it would be nice to standardize some of the generators and install them along with EMC (and update them via the ubuntu update service)
[23:28:09] <BigJohnT> that would be nice
[23:28:17] <hugomatic1> it would make it easier for non python programmers to make generators
[23:28:38] <hugomatic1> I guess that's what I would like to do
[23:28:57] <BigJohnT> you would have to know how to program to make a generator...
[23:29:14] <BigJohnT> but not to use one
[23:30:21] <hugomatic1> my system makes it easier since you don't have to worry about tkinter and stuff. just publish global variables and if you know 'print' and 'for', you are good to go
[23:31:37] <BigJohnT> I don't use tkinter
[23:31:53] <hugomatic1> what do you use instead?
[23:32:17] <BigJohnT> opps seems like I do
[23:32:30] <BigJohnT> must have slept since then :)
[23:32:37] <hugomatic1> I don't like it either...
[23:32:50] <BigJohnT> I'm into cpp and use wxwidgets mostly now
[23:33:24] <hugomatic1> I should get into that... but I have to learn some ajax too...
[23:34:00] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT heads up to to the light...
[23:34:08] <BigJohnT> dark down here
[23:34:32] <BigJohnT> ttul