#emc | Logs for 2009-03-28

[00:00:22] <dareposte> wouldn't call them the pinnacle of high accuracy though, at least the ones I've used
[00:00:28] <dareposte> 0.2mm is pretty good repeatability
[00:01:01] <dareposte> i think there are grinding robots that may do a lot better than that, but not typical
[00:01:16] <L84Supper> the "precision" robots we're using are 20 micron repeatability
[00:01:25] <dareposte> that's pretty precise
[00:01:42] <dareposte> i guess they don't have gear drives in them?
[00:01:44] <toastydeath> what are you doing, wafer stuff or nanolith
[00:02:15] <L84Supper> yes, need to be down to 5 micron with .5 - 1m/sec speeds
[00:02:39] <L84Supper> materals deposition and multi-axis printing
[00:02:58] <dareposte> oh little robots
[00:03:15] <L84Supper> tissue engineering will be a popular one soon
[00:03:56] <dareposte> fancy
[00:04:04] <L84Supper> well I'd like to move a auto fender at 1m/sec and have 5 micron repeatability :)
[00:04:14] <dareposte> i work with big robots, 150kg payload is normal
[00:05:01] <dareposte> seems a bit excessive for auto fender tolerances
[00:05:28] <dareposte> if you're just hanging it on a car anyway
[00:05:31] <L84Supper> not to machine them, for printing
[00:05:35] <dareposte> oh
[00:06:10] <L84Supper> direct to substrate printing, not to a film like a sticker
[00:06:53] <dareposte> i'm lost
[00:07:04] <L84Supper> think motorcycle and auto parts with flames, logos, graphics, photos etc
[00:07:13] <dareposte> you have a stationary print head, and are trying to print on the fender by moving the fender?
[00:07:30] <L84Supper> we move material and printheads
[00:08:24] <dareposte> i would think the fixture to hold a fender in place rigidly enough to get that level of accuracy would be too heavy to move with a normal robot
[00:08:46] <archivist> follow the form, average pressing is not too accurate
[00:08:47] <L84Supper> for a car it's easier to just move the car though like a carwash
[00:09:16] <L84Supper> yeah, we track the surface with laser and ultrasonic
[00:09:56] <dareposte> sounds pretty wild
[00:10:06] <L84Supper> fun stuff
[00:10:31] <L84Supper> what software do you use for the robots you work with?
[00:10:42] <dareposte> its all built-in teach repeat programming
[00:10:49] <dareposte> they have an onboard motion controller
[00:10:51] <L84Supper> ah, ok
[00:11:02] <dareposte> nachi, kawasaki, motoman
[00:11:07] <dareposte> a fanuc occasionally
[00:11:41] <toastydeath> we had a guy ask us about building a C axis for a nanolithography machine
[00:11:51] <toastydeath> i don't think we ever built it, though
[00:12:45] <toastydeath> that would have been uber cool though =(
[00:13:05] <dareposte> L84Supper: i am not cool enough to even understand what a C axis would do
[00:13:21] <toastydeath> wat
[00:13:37] <toastydeath> did you mean me
[00:13:40] <L84Supper> every robot I've seen is like working with a stepper, send command and pray, we needed the control in a closed loop with real time position feedback every 25 microns
[00:13:52] <dareposte> yeah i meant you
[00:14:12] <dareposte> most robots I've seen have 2500-5000 cpr absolute encoders on them
[00:14:15] <toastydeath> it's a rotary table
[00:14:25] <toastydeath> a really accurate one, they were doing drums
[00:14:27] <toastydeath> on their machine
[00:14:58] <toastydeath> for who knows what, but they were big drums
[00:15:10] <fenn> 40kHz servo rate.. yeah right
[00:16:14] <toastydeath> fenn: there was a vendor at that convention i went to selling an 8 axis motion controller at 44 khz
[00:16:18] <toastydeath> but it was ungodly expensive
[00:16:52] <L84Supper> the Staubli's are 20 micron repeatability but use the VAL3 stuff for low level programming
[00:16:52] <toastydeath> i'd believe it, but that's gotta be one really, really, really expensive robot
[00:17:26] <L84Supper> $30k
[00:17:31] <fenn> L84Supper: cut the speed or accuracy by four and you'll have something realistic
[00:17:52] <L84Supper> to boldly go where .....
[00:20:15] <dareposte> fenn: how do you figure 40khz servo rate
[00:21:17] <L84Supper> fenn : yes, it depends on how you use them, tool paths, finding the sweet spots, some robots are 5 microns repeatability in certain areas of travel, but specified at only 25
[00:21:36] <archivist> 1m per sec he wants
[00:21:57] <L84Supper> 1g accle/decel max
[00:22:12] <L84Supper> sp accel/deccel
[00:23:23] <toastydeath> wait, how is something accurate to 5 microns at only certain spots, yet also accurate at 1m/sec
[00:23:34] <dareposte> one of a newer type of controller has control for 36 separate axes, its a beast
[00:23:43] <archivist> someone is dreaming
[00:26:44] <dareposte> 5 microns is 0.0002" or so right
[00:26:53] <toastydeath> dareposte: yeah, about.
[00:26:55] <L84Supper> yes
[00:27:21] <L84Supper> ~25 micons = 0.001"
[00:27:38] <toastydeath> modern machine tools do that
[00:28:02] <toastydeath> .0002 absolute accuracy at much more than 1 m/s
[00:28:12] <toastydeath> wait, no?
[00:28:18] <L84Supper> yes, machine tools but no off the shelf robots yet
[00:28:18] <toastydeath> no.
[00:28:20] <dareposte> yeah, i dont think gear drives could do it though, especially not with summative joint errors
[00:28:38] <toastydeath> machine tools do it at less than half that
[00:29:02] <toastydeath> no machine I'm aware of will do .0002" at more than 1400 ipm
[00:29:13] <toastydeath> and 1 m/s is ~2400 ipm
[00:29:31] <toastydeath> and those machines are better part of a million dollars
[00:29:44] <dareposte> i fail to see the need for such accuracy, L84Supper
[00:30:13] <toastydeath> at that speed, anyway
[00:30:14] <dareposte> the heat from the servo drive would expand enough to throw that off
[00:30:31] <L84Supper> for materials deposition, not machining
[00:30:54] <dareposte> yeah i got that
[00:31:10] <dareposte> i don't think cmm's are even that accurate
[00:31:18] <toastydeath> there are cmms way more accurate than that
[00:31:25] <toastydeath> but they're not moving at 2400 inches per minute
[00:31:41] <dareposte> ours are only accurate to 0.01mm
[00:32:08] <toastydeath> most cmm manufacturers have high accuracy cmms in their offering, good to a couple millionths of an inch
[00:32:41] <toastydeath> obviously that relies on one's ability to provide a stable environment, but you can walk up and buy one.
[00:33:02] <toastydeath> ours is certainly only good to .0002" or so
[00:33:18] <toastydeath> and is most definately NOT thermally stable
[00:33:41] <toastydeath> sorry inspection department, i don't care what you say, turning the AC on to 68 degrees is not thermal control
[00:33:49] <L84Supper> damed this physics, I need a new universe
[00:34:48] <dareposte> maybe reconsider the assumptions of what you need for accuracy
[00:35:04] <toastydeath> or SPEED
[00:35:10] <toastydeath> you can get that accuracy with little to no effort
[00:35:14] <toastydeath> but not anywhere NEAR that speed
[00:35:38] <archivist> accuracy doesnt matter for normal printing
[00:35:44] <dareposte> that's kind of what i'm thinking
[00:35:46] <L84Supper> the tighter control is for tissue engineering, imagine placing cells to build an eye or retina the way a 3d pinter pints polymer models
[00:36:00] <L84Supper> damn my R key
[00:36:09] <L84Supper> 3d printer prints
[00:36:49] <toastydeath> right, bt as archivist, dareposte, and fenn all pointed out, nobody's depositing stuff at .0002" at 1 m/s
[00:36:52] <dareposte> if you had an extremely low intertia manipulator it might be possible
[00:37:25] <fenn> it's not inertia it's the complexity/dynamics of the robot arm that causes inaccuracy
[00:38:03] <toastydeath> ^^ this
[00:38:16] <dareposte> also the rigidity
[00:38:19] <dareposte> when you're moving that fast
[00:38:21] <toastydeath> no
[00:38:26] <dareposte> yes
[00:38:27] <L84Supper> toastydeath : this is emerging market stuff, not whats already out there
[00:38:29] <toastydeath> rigidity means nothing to an accurate machine
[00:38:37] <toastydeath> in this regime, anyway
[00:38:48] <dareposte> if you decelerate the arm and it flexes, it will flex more than 0.0002" for certain
[00:38:50] <toastydeath> even huge machine tools pretend they're made of play-dough
[00:39:10] <toastydeath> dareposte: so you decelerate early, based on how fast you're moving, and rely on the fact your arm is going to bend to get you to where you need to be
[00:39:21] <dareposte> but you don't have any way of knowing where that is
[00:39:25] <toastydeath> sure you do
[00:39:27] <dareposte> how
[00:39:31] <toastydeath> scales
[00:39:43] <L84Supper> yeah, thats the profiling on robots you can do
[00:39:45] <dareposte> scales directly on the head?
[00:39:49] <toastydeath> dareposte: yes
[00:40:04] <archivist> I have a test stand with a 1/100000" indicator on it, 3" bar is very bendy
[00:40:07] <toastydeath> the machine tools that do .0002 are rigid as hell, but they don't rely on it for accuracy
[00:40:33] <toastydeath> they rely on the scales and knowing how much the parts of the machine weigh, and how they bend
[00:41:26] <dareposte> scales on the axis though right
[00:41:35] <toastydeath> scales on everything that moves.
[00:41:37] <toastydeath> so yes
[00:41:45] <dareposte> not a scale on the tool
[00:41:56] <toastydeath> the tool is negligible
[00:42:14] <dareposte> it is for a machine tool, because it's sufficiently rigid to make it so
[00:42:23] <dareposte> i disagree that it would be negligible for a robot though
[00:42:37] <dareposte> at least the robots i've seen
[00:42:38] <toastydeath> for a robot, yes, you'd have to be able to profile the tool somehow
[00:42:42] <toastydeath> i agree with you in that.
[00:43:13] <dareposte> i've seen optical tracking devices that can provide feedback
[00:43:14] <toastydeath> an arm-style robot, anyway
[00:43:22] <dareposte> yes an arm style
[00:43:25] <dareposte> typical 6dof robot
[00:43:54] <toastydeath> not sure how you'd get that anywhere near .0002, is that really what we're talking about?
[00:44:01] <dareposte> but really 5 microns is shot if a diesel truck drives by with a hole in the muffler
[00:44:28] <archivist> or a train a mile away
[00:44:50] <toastydeath> there's a feedback system called fast tool servo that would be able to move something like a print head
[00:44:58] <toastydeath> at that speed, at that accuracy
[00:45:10] <toastydeath> but uh, they're not practical, and they're also completely custom
[00:45:32] <toastydeath> you'd be selling a fast tool system with 6dof robot attached
[00:45:32] <L84Supper> you can dampen much of that away, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use a nano-positioner to probe wafers
[00:47:07] <toastydeath> why does it have to be a 6dof robot.
[00:47:37] <toastydeath> why can't it be a 3 axis gantry system with a 2 axis rotary head
[00:47:50] <toastydeath> like a machine tool, the dynamics for which are simple and you can measure every element
[00:48:00] <dareposte> i just assumed he was talking 6dof robot since he used the term robot
[00:48:04] <toastydeath> oh
[00:48:23] <L84Supper> I was just trying to see how far we could get with off the shelf robots
[00:49:02] <L84Supper> toastydeath pretty much described what we design
[00:49:09] <toastydeath> nothing about this would be off the shelf
[00:49:33] <toastydeath> you'd be doing a 5 axis gantry, with a piezoactuator stage on the tip to correct any error and vibration
[00:50:51] <dareposte> L84Supper: how big are the cells?
[00:51:42] <L84Supper> they vary from ~300nm - a few micons
[00:51:43] <dareposte> i don't remember my cell biology much but i was thinking cells were like 10 microns
[00:52:55] <L84Supper> depends on the tissues, neurons on pretty small, skin is pretty big
[00:53:35] <dareposte> light microscopes can only resolve down to about 200nm anyway, i don't remember any cells that you couldn't see pretty clearly
[00:53:40] <L84Supper> sp /on/are
[01:01:13] <L84Supper> for printing tissues it's small area, high accuracy <1 micron, for printing images onto non-planar surfaces it may be large areas at +/- 25 microns
[01:15:04] <dareposte> why would an image need to be that accurate
[01:15:09] <dareposte> just out of curiousity
[01:22:07] <dareposte> so anybody know how those phase converters work?
[01:22:20] <dareposte> it looks like there are rotaries, statics, and something called a "buzz box"
[01:22:31] <archivist> which type
[01:23:14] <dareposte> rotaries i could guess at
[01:23:17] <dareposte> statics i'm stumped
[01:23:30] <dareposte> a buzz box might be the same as a static?
[01:23:43] <archivist> statics are a bunch or capacitors
[01:24:01] <archivist> rotaries come in at least two forms
[01:24:30] <archivist> proper ones are a motor alternator
[01:24:32] <dareposte> so statics exploit the phase lag of capacitive circuits?
[01:24:56] <archivist> cheap rotaries use a motor
[01:25:04] <dareposte> a friend loaned me some 3hp rotary converter, it looks like a giant motor with an electrical box where the shaft should come out
[01:25:46] <archivist> else use a VFD
[01:26:31] <dareposte> yeah i plan to get a vfd
[01:26:53] <dareposte> but i wanted to check out the machine, the vfd is low on my list
[01:26:58] <archivist> VFD converts to DC then creates 3 phase at almost any frequency
[01:27:22] <dareposte> yeah i am very familiar with them
[01:27:31] <dareposte> its the other ones i have no experience with
[01:28:24] <dareposte> does the static actually supply 3 phase power? or is it just a motor starter type setup
[01:28:25] <archivist> rotaries waste power
[01:28:52] <archivist> false phase and are not as good
[01:30:48] <L84Supper> darepost : your desktop photo printer is probably 2-4K dpi
[01:31:27] <L84Supper> darepost : some canon's are 9600 dpi
[01:32:12] <archivist> I used to do the firmware in a printer
[01:33:01] <L84Supper> 1 picoliter drop volume, actual printed dot size is dependent on the ink and substrate
[01:33:18] <L84Supper> achivist : inkjet?
[01:33:32] <L84Supper> archivist even
[01:33:34] <archivist> yes
[01:33:46] <L84Supper> piezo or thermal?
[01:34:02] <archivist> we used both
[01:34:20] <L84Supper> large format stuff?
[01:34:32] <archivist> no
[01:36:59] <L84Supper> small world, not many people around that write printer firmware
[01:37:30] <archivist> was a while ago
[01:38:15] <L84Supper> they tend to keep things pretty secret in the printer world
[01:39:19] <archivist> we bought printers reverse engineered doubled the resolution, sold with our badge
[01:39:32] <L84Supper> maybe a EMC plugin for gutenprint or ghostscript will come in handy
[01:40:06] <L84Supper> or the other way around
[01:52:50] <L84Supper> archivist : many still do that using the epsons since they can print both aqueous and some solvents
[01:53:40] <toastydeath> http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n212/oldnumber7_2006/006.jpg
[01:53:48] <toastydeath> guy is complaining that he can't get that threading tool lined up
[01:54:07] <toastydeath> i pointed out he's got a full profile threading tool in a regular triangular insert holder not made for the threading insert
[01:54:11] <toastydeath> we'll see what happens
[05:37:02] <tomp> toastydeath: what is the dollar amount when an 8axis control is expensive
[05:37:05] <tomp> /
[05:37:08] <tomp> ?
[05:38:46] <tomp> (score! the 7-11's have edible nuclear food! no need to resort to tea eggs and sugar water.. heck its alost good food!)
[05:44:50] <tomp> ok, the pork potstickers & the beef with bean sauce, i'd buy again, but, the squid with eggplant smells fishy- a waste of 35nt$. still very useful survivak info :)
[07:12:10] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Dude, 7-11 nachos + bag of doritos
[07:13:43] <JymmmEMC> or fritos, whatever your fav is
[07:41:54] <pjm_> good morning
[08:18:08] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[09:10:35] <tomp> JymmmEMC: 7-11s in taiping/dali city taiwan dude, their doritos are 'happy fish flavor' (gag!)
[11:13:27] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[12:40:23] <tomp> wow, the "Life of Riley" >was< Jackie Gleason, he was so young, and the internet tv so pixelated, i wasnt sure. "what a revoltin developement this is" ;)
[12:42:08] <JymmmEMC> tomp: fish doritos - yuck!
[12:44:04] <tomp> yep, i just had dinner, homade black russians an chciken currey, best i couldd do
[12:44:49] <tomp> getting drunk 1st makes taiwanese food taste better ;)
[12:46:44] <JymmmEMC> lol
[12:57:59] <BigJohnT> yum, fish head soup
[13:11:52] <tomp> heh 'fish heads' by wild man fischer(croney of frank zappa) ( not as good as his 'merry go round', but a good early rock video )
[13:14:34] <tomp> 'fish heads fish heads, eat thenm up yum" hahahahahah
[13:28:25] <tomp> 'they're not good dancers, they dont play drums' (voted one of the top 10 music vieos of all time)
[13:54:49] <|dareposte|> wow cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUDW5pQbxAY&NR=1
[13:55:48] <|dareposte|> i think i need one
[14:18:52] <DanielFalck1> tomp: hi - how are things in Taiwan?
[14:33:54] <skunkworks> I think jepler likes his spindle
[14:37:42] <DanielFalck1> what's the deal with people thinking that you can't start a program in the middle of a cycle with emc? I've always been able to start from a selected line in the program
[14:38:39] <DanielFalck1> I have pre2.3 on this machine and it lets me stop the program, jog up the spindle, do whatever, then start from a selected line
[14:38:43] <DanielFalck1> which is great
[14:38:57] <SWPLinux> there have been some issues with the spindle or other machine state not getting restored
[14:39:11] <DanielFalck1> ok, I'm just using sim here...
[14:39:12] <SWPLinux> or having the spindle turn off, even if you turned it on manually
[14:39:42] <SWPLinux> a lot of that is fixed in 2.3 (and maybe in 2.2, I'm not sure)
[14:40:22] <DanielFalck1> at work, we group things into logical subroutines that let you start from a safe spot if you want to restart the program in the middle
[14:41:18] <DanielFalck1> but that's on Fanuc controls
[16:33:49] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@mahan:~/emcdev/emc2head$ uptime
[16:33:49] <jmkasunich> 12:32:37 up 118 days, 17:41, 6 users, load average: 2.06, 1.62, 1.23
[16:33:57] <jmkasunich> sadly, I have to shut down
[16:34:09] <jmkasunich> need to replace the UPS battery
[16:34:18] <jmkasunich> ironic - the reason for the UPS is to avoid shutdowns
[17:31:13] <zebra78> anyone got a second - I need some debug advice on a wierd issue with emc 2.2.8
[17:33:14] <zebra78> when I switch to "Auto" mode, my steppers oscillate
[17:33:45] <zebra78> this is after changing PC's and changing from Dapper to Hardy
[18:07:56] <|dareposte|> is that the only change?
[18:41:24] <toastydeath> did anyone else not know that there was some sort of climate protest where everyone's going to sit in the dark today
[18:58:48] <JymmmEMC> only for an hour 20:30 to 21:30 Pacific Time
[19:00:07] <JymmmEMC> oh, 20:30 LOCAL Time
[19:00:15] <JymmmEMC> http://www.earthhour.org/home/
[19:05:27] <|dareposte|> i wonder if that will cause any grid disruptions
[19:05:52] <anonimasu> probably
[19:06:00] <|dareposte|> depends how widespread it is i guess
[19:06:04] <anonimasu> well, they can probably easily predict it too
[19:06:26] <anonimasu> and adjust the frequency
[19:06:49] <toastydeath> apparently it doesn't
[19:06:57] <toastydeath> according to wikipedia
[19:07:40] <|dareposte|> but isn't global warming widely discredited now?
[19:07:53] <toastydeath> no?
[19:08:00] <|dareposte|> by scientists, not politicians
[19:08:04] <toastydeath> no?
[19:08:38] <|dareposte|> pretty sure it is
[19:08:55] <|dareposte|> some global cooling trend has been in effect for the past number of years
[19:09:02] <|dareposte|> but i don't really keep up with it that much
[19:09:06] <toastydeath> i do
[19:09:14] <toastydeath> i'm not sold on global warming in the hippie sense
[19:09:43] <toastydeath> but the whole global cooling thing is largely a case of cherry picking quotes by politicians, not scientists, and getting them in newspapers
[19:09:55] <toastydeath> there WILL be global cooling, and we are headed for an ice age
[19:09:59] <|dareposte|> i've seen some data that correlated the recorded temperature changes on earth with the solar cycles, which makes a lot more sense to me than human influence
[19:10:01] <toastydeath> ...in 16,000 to 20,000 years
[19:10:16] <JymmmEMC> Well, 'something' is changing in our climate at least.
[19:10:17] <toastydeath> the solar cycle hypothesis has been discredited to my knowledge
[19:10:26] <toastydeath> directly discredited
[19:11:01] <|dareposte|> so what is the current thoughts for what is changing the climate then
[19:11:09] <|dareposte|> since you keep up with it apparently
[19:11:21] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52KLGqDSAjo
[19:11:38] <toastydeath> he has some good stuff on the arguements and counter-arguements
[19:11:43] <JymmmEMC> cutting of too many trees
[19:12:00] <toastydeath> i don't have many thoughts on the subject, that's why I'm torn
[19:12:10] <toastydeath> there's some good points, and some good counterpoints
[19:12:15] <toastydeath> and a lot of hyperbole
[19:12:18] <|dareposte|> so basically nobody knows then
[19:12:28] <toastydeath> no, i wouldn't go that far either
[19:12:44] <|dareposte|> nobody knows for certain?
[19:12:50] <|dareposte|> nobody is positively certain
[19:12:52] <toastydeath> sure.
[19:13:01] <toastydeath> and i distrust the people who are.
[19:13:02] <JymmmEMC> Trees are our filtration system
[19:13:40] <|dareposte|> yeah i know there's lots of deforestation
[19:13:57] <|dareposte|> and also its clear that having a particular atmospheric composition is important
[19:14:03] <JymmmEMC> When you cut them don, and put in 1000's of people, something has got to change
[19:14:13] <JymmmEMC> ^w
[19:14:49] <|dareposte|> so instead of turning out my light for an hour, i should plant a tree
[19:15:11] <toastydeath> or invent something that will go in thousands of different products, and cuts their energy usage by 5%
[19:15:48] <JymmmEMC> Make motors illegal!!!
[19:15:56] <toastydeath> hahaha
[19:16:23] <JymmmEMC> or at least eletric motors illegal
[19:16:49] <toastydeath> then they'd all have to run on gasoline?
[19:16:59] <|dareposte|> you want something to worry about, look at the solar ejection theories
[19:16:59] <JymmmEMC> air, water
[19:17:07] <JymmmEMC> ejection?
[19:17:18] <|dareposte|> i think thats what it was called
[19:17:30] <|dareposte|> basically a huge solar flare that fries computers on earth
[19:17:33] <JymmmEMC> like solar flares?
[19:17:40] <JymmmEMC> oh EMP
[19:17:44] <toastydeath> not emp
[19:17:44] <|dareposte|> yeah something like that
[19:17:54] <toastydeath> solar flares, charged particles
[19:18:22] <|dareposte|> its statistically all but certain to happen in the next 100 years
[19:18:29] <toastydeath> causes a large change in electric potential over long distances, causes "unintended operation" of stuff connected to the electrical grid
[19:18:43] <toastydeath> it already happened to canada
[19:18:48] <toastydeath> in like the 70's?
[19:18:52] <|dareposte|> yeah, a very small one
[19:19:06] <|dareposte|> i think the last big one we know of was in the 1800's, and took out a bunch of telegraph wires
[19:19:11] <|dareposte|> didn't bother the horses and buggies though
[19:19:11] <JymmmEMC> Well, theysay were butning up our ozone layer, which would let in more solar radiation. But I think it's like a rubberband, where it can close if the load wasn't so high
[19:19:32] <JymmmEMC> Thus related back to more trees
[19:20:07] <|dareposte|> from what I read the ozone would help block it, but a big enough ejection from the sun would certainly fry a lot of our modern electrical grids
[19:20:26] <|dareposte|> not to mention ECUs and computes
[19:20:26] <toastydeath> ozone blocks radiation, not massive charged particles
[19:20:52] <toastydeath> our magnetosphere deals with the charged particles
[19:21:28] <toastydeath> (just to be technically rigorous here)
[19:21:35] <|dareposte|> sure
[19:21:46] <|dareposte|> whatever it was, NASA did some study and decided it was going to happen, just a matter of time
[19:22:08] <toastydeath> zap
[19:22:14] <toastydeath> i will be very sad when i can't get on irc
[19:22:30] <|dareposte|> depending on the magnitude, the electrical grid would most definitely be damaged, but if its big enough then also modern CMOS chips could be fried
[19:22:33] <toastydeath> then, even sadder when i die from exposure to the elements since my frail american body is unaccustomed to the harsh life in the elements
[19:22:36] <|dareposte|> which is virtually everything these days
[19:22:41] <|dareposte|> lol
[19:22:47] <|dareposte|> i'm sure you will reacclimate
[19:23:18] <toastydeath> then we'll all be driving around like some post-apocalyptic culture, with ak-47's and trading bottle caps for currency
[19:23:20] <|dareposte|> i think the next solar peak is supposed to happen in 2012
[19:24:03] <|dareposte|> i don't think we'll be driving though
[19:24:06] <|dareposte|> maybe riding around on a bicycle
[19:24:13] <|dareposte|> or a carbureted clunker
[19:24:23] <toastydeath> we'll be running alcohol motors
[19:24:41] <toastydeath> motorcycle vigilanties with RPGs
[19:24:52] <toastydeath> i obviously play too much fallout
[19:25:08] <|dareposte|> ahh here it is... "Coronal Mass Ejection" is the appropriate term
[19:25:59] <|dareposte|> are RPG's transistorized/
[19:26:06] <toastydeath> no
[19:26:08] <|dareposte|> oh good
[19:26:12] <|dareposte|> we'll probably be fine then
[19:26:25] <toastydeath> most of the older russian equipment is vacuum tubes anyway
[19:26:47] <|dareposte|> yeah they'll be doing great
[19:26:58] <|dareposte|> my guitar amp would still work at least
[19:27:01] <|dareposte|> if it had any power
[19:28:13] <|dareposte|> http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/CMEs.shtml
[19:30:23] <|dareposte|> http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/spaceweather_hazard.html
[19:30:41] <toastydeath> zap
[19:31:55] <|dareposte|> i didn't realize they were so common
[19:32:00] <|dareposte|> several a day it says
[19:32:06] <|dareposte|> i guess its just the enormous ones we have to worry about
[19:34:59] <|dareposte|> One example of a space weather event that had a major impact was the March 1989 superstorm. During this storm, a large solar magnetic impulse caused a voltage depression on the Hydro-Quebec power system in Canada that could not be mitigated by automatic voltage compensation equipment. The failure of the equipment resulted in a voltage collapse. Specifically, five transmission lines from James Bay were tripped, which caused a generatio
[19:34:59] <|dareposte|>
[19:34:59] <|dareposte|> "
[19:35:00] <|dareposte|>
[19:35:22] <alex_joni> whee.. 21:35 here
[19:35:25] <alex_joni> earth hour is over
[19:38:13] <|dareposte|> did you keep your lights out the whole time?
[19:39:59] <|dareposte|> toastydeath: http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12507&page=78
[19:40:30] <toastydeath> nice
[19:40:39] <alex_joni> |dareposte|: sure did
[19:40:46] <alex_joni> actually everything was out
[19:40:59] <|dareposte|> |dareposte| is now known as dareposte
[19:41:04] <alex_joni> (except my servers at work..)
[19:41:15] <dareposte> what did you do the whole time??
[19:41:28] <JymmmEMC> Light up the bondfire
[19:41:44] <jst_home> isn't earth hour in like 8 hours or so from now?
[19:41:45] <JymmmEMC> and cranked up the 1902 diesel generator
[19:41:57] <JymmmEMC> jst_home: 20:30 LOCAL time
[19:42:17] <jst_home> ah, I thought it was a globally synchronized event
[19:42:17] <dareposte> JymmmEMC: I think the earth would rather you stayed on the grid :)
[19:42:24] <JymmmEMC> jst_home: me too
[19:43:41] <jst_home> shows how much we pay attention, eh? :)
[19:44:28] <JymmmEMC> I say we start a Fart Hour... Globally synced event where everyone eats beans for a week and lights them up all at the same time
[19:44:42] <toastydeath> here, here
[19:46:18] <dareposte> you could call it "Synchronised Methane Emissions Hour"
[19:46:39] <JymmmEMC> No, no, NATURAL GAS DISTRIBUTION
[19:46:49] <dareposte> oh even better
[19:46:58] <dareposte> but why limit it to just one hour
[19:47:30] <JymmmEMC> dareposte: Would you REALLY want everyone on the planet farting for longer? You know some are going to have failed ignition
[19:48:02] <alex_joni> or spoiled beans
[19:48:07] <alex_joni> dareposte: mostly nothing
[19:48:16] <alex_joni> I did a LOT today, so I spent one hour doing nothing
[19:48:25] <alex_joni> it was interesting for a change
[19:48:28] <JymmmEMC> May, could have Maytag be the primary sponsor
[19:49:13] <JymmmEMC> and whatever the name is of the butt doctor association
[19:49:28] <JymmmEMC> proctologist Assoc
[19:50:16] <dareposte> good plan
[19:50:27] <dareposte> or bush's baked beans
[19:50:39] <dareposte> the day traders would make a fortune
[19:50:48] <JymmmEMC> lol
[19:52:03] <dareposte> heh
[19:52:13] <dareposte> well i have an NC / emc related question today
[19:52:38] <dareposte> i was thinking of trying to make a simple foam cutting machine, with a rotary axis, to cut out rifle stock blanks from blocks of foam
[19:52:49] <dareposte> is there any decent software that helps with those toolpaths?
[19:52:51] <JymmmEMC> dareposte: Form your question in the response of a fart
[19:53:36] <JymmmEMC> echo 2009+5
[19:57:54] <dareposte> i was dreaming of a 3 axis wire cutter, x + z + rotary
[19:58:34] <dareposte> index maybe every 2 degrees, cut the profile with the wire, repeat
[19:59:09] <dareposte> sand it when its done and cut any of the other important features the wire couldn't get
[20:01:45] <dareposte> sort of an acme-screw / rubber hose & duct tape type machine
[20:06:50] <dareposte> i wish i could afford mastercam
[20:11:11] <dareposte> or one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JcvCZFG0L0&NR=1
[20:11:18] <Optic> it looks like good CAM software is still the big lack
[20:11:25] <Optic> emc is great at driving the machine
[20:11:29] <Optic> if you can tell it what to do :)
[20:11:39] <dareposte> yeah that's what i've been finding
[20:11:55] <Optic> i've been trying to stick with free tools for our laser engraver
[20:12:01] <dareposte> it seems like a python script or something should be able to generate decent toolpaths, the math isn't hard its just a lot of it
[20:12:02] <Optic> it's pretty slim pickin's
[20:12:32] <Optic> it's a common problem with open source... the first 70% of making the tool is easy
[20:12:49] <Optic> which gets your project done
[20:13:05] <Optic> and then the last 30% which is actually making it general purpose, and testing it, and documenting it... that's the hard part!
[20:13:11] <Optic> and most people stop before it
[20:13:18] <Optic> (including me)
[20:13:29] <Optic> emc shines because it is well tested, and has great docs
[20:13:40] <dareposte> yep
[20:13:51] <dareposte> we need an EMC-cam program too
[20:14:35] <Optic> we've been doing some stuff in-house... one of our guys is making an svg-to-gcode in VB6 :(
[20:14:41] <Optic> when he's done we'll port it :)
[20:15:00] <Optic> another guy has made a pretty good bitmap-to-gcode for raster output on our laser
[20:15:01] <dareposte> ideally something that could load an arbitrary cad/cam model (iges, step), let you set xyz coordinates, and then generate toolpaths
[20:15:29] <Optic> even something that could reliably load a simple 1-layer dxf and reliably make gcode would be nice
[20:16:10] <dareposte> yeah
[20:16:38] <dareposte> unfortunately those types of programs require a highly specialized skill set
[20:16:47] <Optic> yes, they do
[20:16:55] <dareposte> i'm a pretty good programmer, but no way could I get something like that running
[20:17:34] <Optic> not without a math and computer graphics textbook by your side
[20:17:54] <dareposte> the 3d programming and cad / modeling knowledge required, combined with the knowledge base required for understanding what needs to be done to make cnc programs..
[20:18:16] <dareposte> heck even interpreting a step file properly would be a major achievment
[20:18:25] <Optic> are the $200ish class of CAM programs any good?
[20:18:30] <Optic> or do you need to spend more?
[20:18:30] <dareposte> autodesk inventory doesn't reliably render iges files :)
[20:18:50] <dareposte> inventory=inventor
[20:18:57] <dareposte> i'm not sure, never used them
[20:19:02] <dareposte> i almost bought a copy of dolphin once
[20:19:37] <dareposte> tried the demos, and it would have been fine for my lathe
[20:19:41] <dareposte> but nothing fancier than that
[20:20:09] <Optic> i need something solid and reliable for our cutter/engraver
[20:20:12] <Optic> no fancy 3d stuff
[20:20:15] <dareposte> then i just learned to write g-code by hand and saved the $800 or so it would have cost
[20:20:49] <dareposte> if you haven't read it already, there are quite a few informative reviews on cnczone
[20:21:00] <dareposte> i think dolphin was the one I would have picked had i picked one
[20:21:24] <dareposte> bobcad/cam is another one, but it seems like they are a lot pushier and annoying
[20:21:54] <dareposte> alibre design also has what appears to be a good CAM package now
[20:22:15] <dareposte> you can get their modeling + CAM for about $1200 if you wait for it to go on sale
[20:22:46] <alex_joni> there are some promising projects started
[20:22:58] <alex_joni> dareposte: they also have a free version
[20:23:05] <Optic> there's a german python dxf-to-gcode that i've been using
[20:23:08] <Optic> which works pretty well
[20:23:09] <alex_joni> CAM Xpress (like Design Xpress)
[20:23:09] <dareposte> i don't think they have CAM in the free version
[20:23:22] <dareposte> oh do they have it?
[20:23:26] <alex_joni> dareposte: I've been using it for quite a while
[20:23:31] <dareposte> sweet i didn't know
[20:23:35] <alex_joni> well, I also have Design Expert :)
[20:23:46] <dareposte> how's it work out for you
[20:23:51] <alex_joni> perfect
[20:23:52] <dareposte> i've come really close to buying it a few times
[20:23:54] <Optic> i've been meaning to try out g-simple
[20:24:06] <alex_joni> Optic: look at heekscad/heekscnc
[20:24:20] <alex_joni> http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/
[20:25:08] <alex_joni> it's pretty fresh as a project, but it already has some nice results
[20:25:17] <alex_joni> judging from screenshots
[20:25:27] <Optic> hmm!
[20:25:30] <Optic> looks good
[20:25:36] <alex_joni> dareposte: I mainly use it to generate SAT files for some simulation software I use
[20:25:47] <dareposte> do you use the fea any?
[20:25:51] <alex_joni> and I recently got Alibre Translate too
[20:25:53] <dareposte> that's another reason I'd really like to buy it
[20:25:57] <alex_joni> nope, I don't use fea
[20:26:03] <dareposte> it comes with expert i think
[20:26:09] <alex_joni> fea does
[20:26:15] <Optic> oof! brb!
[20:26:17] <alex_joni> I think I started it once :D
[20:26:35] <dareposte> cool
[20:26:49] <dareposte> they occasionally email me with a new special offer, with expert for about $1200
[20:26:51] <alex_joni> I think Expert was under 1k
[20:26:55] <dareposte> i think once they offered it for $999
[20:26:56] <alex_joni> EUR though
[20:27:07] <alex_joni> you need to wait for august or so
[20:27:14] <alex_joni> just before they plan a new major version
[20:27:20] <dareposte> yeah
[20:27:24] <alex_joni> then the old one goes on sale
[20:27:26] <alex_joni> half off
[20:27:41] <dareposte> they list expert for $2k
[20:27:43] <dareposte> usd
[20:27:43] <alex_joni> and of course you can buy a one-year subscription for something like 2-300
[20:27:57] <alex_joni> and then you get the new version as an update :)
[20:28:01] <dareposte> oh really
[20:28:04] <dareposte> i did not know that
[20:28:24] <alex_joni> one year subscription gets you all updates
[20:28:49] <dareposte> is that in addition to the purchase price? or is it like a lease
[20:29:06] <alex_joni> it's completeley sepparate
[20:29:21] <alex_joni> you can take it or you can leave it, and take it the year after
[20:29:38] <alex_joni> it's like antivirus subscriptions
[20:29:45] <dareposte> so you have to purchase the software?
[20:29:46] <skunkworks> so the $300 gives you a years use? \
[20:30:13] <skunkworks> after the year - it quits working?
[20:31:36] <alex_joni> skunkworks: no
[20:31:43] <alex_joni> the 300$ gives youa year of updates
[20:31:48] <alex_joni> and special support
[20:31:49] <alex_joni> & such
[20:32:14] <alex_joni> dareposte: the nice thing (which I didn't see on their site)
[20:32:26] <alex_joni> is that if you get Expert, you can install it and license it on 5 PCs
[20:32:36] <alex_joni> (except CAM which only works on one)
[20:32:46] <dareposte> oh that is pretty nice
[20:33:12] <alex_joni> and the other add-ons which are 3rd party (like engineers toolbox, machinist toolbox, etc)
[20:33:18] <dareposte> yeah
[20:33:32] <dareposte> i will probably wind up getting it one of these days
[20:33:40] <dareposte> now that i actually have a machine to run :)
[20:34:52] <dareposte> alibre cam doesn't appear to support lathes, edms, or more than 3 axes
[20:34:53] <alex_joni> get CAM Xpress, and get a feeling of it
[20:35:00] <dareposte> and it says their technology came from VisualMill
[20:35:07] <alex_joni> I don't perticularly use CAM
[20:35:15] <alex_joni> and my spelling sucks today
[20:36:03] <alex_joni> I painted about 3000 sq feet today :/
[20:36:41] <dareposte> that's a lot of paint
[20:37:09] <dareposte> Optic: https://www.alibre.com/download/alibredesign.aspx
[20:37:20] <dareposte> alex_joni: I am downloading it now
[20:37:39] <dareposte> i found their specs page, and their CAM Expert does apparently include up to 5 axdes
[20:39:13] <alex_joni> yeah, didn't get the CAM Expert.. no need for it now
[20:39:51] <dareposte> it doesn't come with design expert?
[20:40:07] <alex_joni> nope, only hte basic CAM comes with design expert
[20:40:22] <alex_joni> CAM Expert is about 4k$ more
[20:40:56] <alex_joni> seen http://www.alibre.com/products/mechanical/cam_post_process.asp ?
[20:41:14] <alex_joni> at least they have: EMC-Sherline-Inch
[20:41:15] <alex_joni> EMC-Sherline-MM
[20:41:23] <alex_joni> as available posts :)
[20:42:12] <alex_joni> and there's a Tormach post, not sure if that's not also meant for emc
[20:48:31] <dareposte> tormach uses mach3 doens't it
[20:48:40] <alex_joni> they also have emc machines
[20:48:58] <alex_joni> I think..
[20:51:46] <dareposte> not surprising if they do, it would be easy to offer
[20:51:52] <dareposte> and save the $200 or whatever that mach costs now
[20:54:22] <alex_joni> default seems mach though
[20:54:57] <alex_joni> bbl
[20:55:01] <dareposte> later
[21:37:52] <BigJohnT> if I want to move my Z axis while a program is running where would I start looking?
[21:43:27] <alex_joni> how do you make sure the program doesn't move Z?
[21:43:48] <alex_joni> oh, and I'm surprised you didn't post to the forum with such a question
[21:43:50] <alex_joni> ROFL
[21:43:59] <BigJohnT> good question :/
[21:44:11] <BigJohnT> LOL
[21:44:45] <alex_joni> anyways.. the only way I know of is to hijack the output from axis.2.motor-pos-cmd
[21:44:50] <alex_joni> and add the value you want
[21:45:16] <BigJohnT> thanks
[21:45:18] <alex_joni> you need to do the same for -fb
[21:45:42] <alex_joni> and you probably want to put a limit component between the sum and where the data comes from
[21:45:50] <alex_joni> or else it'll try to jump to that position instantly
[21:47:39] <BigJohnT> speaking of the forum, is there any way to not have the polls or news on that page to give it more room?
[21:48:48] <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks
[21:52:15] <alex_joni> seems there isn't
[21:52:27] <BigJohnT> ok, thanks for looking
[21:56:59] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I mean, I managed to get rid of the polls
[21:57:10] <alex_joni> but not to make the forum expand
[21:57:22] <BigJohnT> :/
[21:57:53] <alex_joni> it's because of the way the div's for the content are defined
[21:57:56] <alex_joni> margins & all
[21:59:26] <BigJohnT> weird heh
[22:00:24] <alex_joni> SMOP
[22:01:09] <alex_joni> crap.. it also depends on the browser :/
[22:01:46] <BigJohnT> oh that's nice
[22:19:40] <alex_joni> seems it was a SMOP
[22:20:00] <alex_joni> if anyone sees weird things with strange browsers, let me know
[22:20:07] <BigJohnT> ok
[22:20:52] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes to toss some wood on the fire
[22:22:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni tried Opera, Chrome, IE, Firefox and lynx
[22:26:39] <BigJohnT> back
[22:27:36] <BigJohnT> so would I want to take the axis.2.motor-pos-cmd and add or subtract from it and use another stepgen to actually drive the motor?
[22:30:55] <BigJohnT> or just put my offset between the axis.2.motor-pos-cmd and stepgen.2.position-cmd
[22:31:02] <BigJohnT> that seems logical
[22:31:06] <BigJohnT> at this point
[22:31:38] <BigJohnT> wow we have Dallur and Dallur1 and Dallur2
[22:32:30] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: I did get the email when you complained about my post :) so that works
[22:34:52] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: yup, the later
[22:35:05] <alex_joni> but I think the Dallur-THC sample config does that
[22:35:56] <BigJohnT> I looked at it a bit but didn't get a good feel for what he was doing.
[22:36:57] <alex_joni> there's an Openoffice document that shows the config
[22:37:47] <BigJohnT> I think that was the old one... he has a new one now
[22:38:18] <alex_joni> the new one is the one with the ods
[22:38:36] <BigJohnT> hmmm, missed that then
[22:38:45] <alex_joni> plasma-thc
[22:39:32] <BigJohnT> found it, thanks
[22:40:19] <alex_joni> hmm.. you even get a sheetcam post
[22:40:20] <alex_joni> nice
[22:40:37] <BigJohnT> I saw that
[22:40:42] <BigJohnT> sweet
[22:41:31] <BigJohnT> yep, I see what he is doing now
[22:42:30] <alex_joni> I think the same thing
[22:44:49] <BigJohnT> looks like he is using a move up/down from the thc
[22:45:05] <alex_joni> yup, that's the common way to do it
[22:46:12] <BigJohnT> I'm looking to compare a number to a preset then give the up/down inside of EMC
[22:48:06] <alex_joni> that works too
[22:48:17] <alex_joni> except that you need to get the number inside the PC :)
[22:48:40] <BigJohnT> Peter is making me a A-F board to test out
[22:49:04] <BigJohnT> drives an encoder input and use the velocity output
[22:54:02] <alex_joni> cool
[22:54:30] <BigJohnT> that's what I thought too :)
[22:55:00] <BigJohnT> and the board could use the parallel port input when set to snail speed
[22:56:30] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes to put on his chef hat and play cook
[23:04:57] <DanielFalck1> where is this forum that BigJohnT is talking about?
[23:05:13] <BigJohnT> forum.linuxcnc.org
[23:05:25] <DanielFalck1> ok, thanks. I'll check it out
[23:05:46] <DanielFalck1> cool
[23:05:47] <BigJohnT> first one to post that is not a moderator gets a free copy of EMC
[23:05:53] <DanielFalck1> ha
[23:06:12] <eric_unterhausen> it refuxes my registration request
[23:06:43] <BigJohnT> are you registered already?
[23:07:11] <DanielFalck1> alright! I'm registered (I think...)
[23:07:22] <eric_unterhausen> no, it doesn't take my password
[23:07:35] <DanielFalck1> maybe a registered EMC nut....
[23:07:52] <BigJohnT> are you view it now?
[23:07:53] <eric_unterhausen> forums requiring strong passwords just hope you use one that they can use to hack your accounts
[23:08:17] <BigJohnT> you have to talk to Alex about that :)
[23:08:58] <DanielFalck1> I'm blocked
[23:09:13] <BigJohnT> LOL, really
[23:09:24] <BigJohnT> let me look
[23:10:27] <eric_unterhausen> I've been banned
[23:11:45] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT hollers at alex_joni
[23:11:56] <BigJohnT> can you view it?
[23:13:47] <eric_unterhausen> nice faq on the stepconfwizard
[23:14:39] <BigJohnT> I was testing
[23:14:50] <eric_unterhausen> me too ;)
[23:15:00] <BigJohnT> :)
[23:15:37] <eric_unterhausen> how do you put a picture on your profile?
[23:15:56] <BigJohnT> go to my profile
[23:16:13] <BigJohnT> my avitar
[23:16:29] <BigJohnT> or my avatar
[23:16:41] <BigJohnT> and upload a picture
[23:18:31] <BigJohnT> are you still blocked DanielFalck1
[23:19:05] <DanielFalck1> BigJohnT: yes
[23:19:11] <BigJohnT> :/
[23:19:34] <DanielFalck1> no problem- I know it's all pretty new :)
[23:19:49] <DanielFalck1> trying to think of a good avatar :)
[23:20:08] <BigJohnT> I don't see you as a user
[23:20:17] <DanielFalck1> hmm
[23:20:25] <DanielFalck1> I'll try again
[23:20:30] <BigJohnT> ok
[23:21:32] <DanielFalck1> I tried the same one as before and it says that username (Dan Falck) is already in use
[23:21:43] <DanielFalck1> so it must be there somewhere
[23:22:23] <BigJohnT> you have registered before then
[23:23:02] <DanielFalck1> yes, a little earlier
[23:23:10] <alex_joni> there is a refistered user Dan Falck
[23:23:12] <alex_joni> from today
[23:23:18] <alex_joni> not yet authorized
[23:23:24] <DanielFalck1> ah
[23:23:44] <alex_joni> you probably didn't follow your activation email or something like that
[23:23:56] <BigJohnT> yep there it is
[23:23:56] <alex_joni> DanielFalck1: I enabled the account now
[23:24:32] <BigJohnT> you have a green check mark now DanielFalck1
[23:24:53] <DanielFalck1> alex_joni: thanks
[23:25:06] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: thanks
[23:25:23] <DanielFalck1> ok, I was able to log in
[23:25:29] <BigJohnT> sweet!
[23:25:32] <DanielFalck1> it took me to the main linuxcnc.org page
[23:25:38] <alex_joni> lol @ eric
[23:25:50] <alex_joni> DanielFalck1: yeah, the login is still problematic
[23:25:54] <alex_joni> go to the documentation page
[23:25:59] <alex_joni> and login on the bottom left
[23:26:00] <DanielFalck1> cool, I'm in the forum now
[23:26:07] <alex_joni> or that :)
[23:26:23] <DanielFalck1> I'll try to post- just for fun
[23:26:28] <BigJohnT> cool
[23:26:50] <eric_unterhausen> post a mean comment in the stepconf wizard faq thread
[23:26:59] <alex_joni> heh
[23:27:08] <alex_joni> eric_unterhausen: carefull.. BigJohnT is a moderator ;)
[23:27:28] <eric_unterhausen> I'm on probationary statuds
[23:27:29] <alex_joni> he'll moderate your deriere into oblivion :)
[23:27:31] <DanielFalck1> no, I can't do that- I'll start a 'what do you like about Mach3' thing :)
[23:27:38] <BigJohnT> and he has a 50 caliber rifle...
[23:27:42] <DanielFalck1> alex_joni will ban me then
[23:27:48] <alex_joni> I sure won't
[23:28:07] <alex_joni> DanielFalck1: nothing wrong with people liking Mach
[23:28:14] <eric_unterhausen> you could try to shoot me, but I don't think it would make it to pennsylvania from there
[23:28:20] <alex_joni> and less wrong with us hearing about things they like about it
[23:28:24] <BigJohnT> it would get close
[23:28:25] <DanielFalck1> it might - it's 50 caliber
[23:28:41] <DanielFalck1> depends on how much powder is behind the bullet
[23:28:50] <eric_unterhausen> math education in the U.S. does stink, who knew? :)
[23:28:51] <BigJohnT> just get near slippery rock so I know where to aim
[23:28:52] <alex_joni> try a 3-stage bullet
[23:29:44] <BigJohnT> with an atomic booster stage
[23:29:52] <fenn> 50 caliber slingatron?
[23:30:24] <BigJohnT> that's what the last deer thought for a milli-second
[23:31:28] <eric_unterhausen> sounds like a fun weekend project
[23:31:46] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT hums the final jepordy song while waiting on Dan to post something and win the prize
[23:32:46] <DanielFalck1> ok, I did a post to the forum. It seemed to work
[23:33:03] <maddash> hm hm hm hmmm hum hm hm hmmm , hm hm hm hm mmmmmmmmmm...
[23:33:36] <DanielFalck1> ok maddash, what is that tune?
[23:34:07] <maddash> DanielFalck1: jeopardy
[23:34:12] <BigJohnT> so do we need a CAM section?
[23:34:28] <DanielFalck1> that would be cool- I could help on that one
[23:35:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[23:35:25] <alex_joni> be good ;)
[23:35:26] <DanielFalck1> thanks alex_joni
[23:35:55] <BigJohnT> thanks alex_joni
[23:36:27] <BigJohnT> refresh your browser DanielFalck1
[23:37:05] <DanielFalck1> cool
[23:37:44] <BigJohnT> but wait there's more
[23:38:05] <BigJohnT> open the cam up
[23:38:23] <BigJohnT> and look who the moderator is
[23:38:45] <DanielFalck1> ?
[23:39:26] <BigJohnT> refresh your browser again and look at the cam one
[23:40:46] <DanielFalck1> ok, I see it now
[23:40:49] <DanielFalck1> thanks
[23:40:53] <BigJohnT> :)
[23:41:04] <DanielFalck1> I logged out and back in
[23:42:42] <BigJohnT> oh the dinner bell has rung