#emc | Logs for 2009-03-16

[01:00:25] <BMG> Can someone direct me to a good link for managing manual tool changes? Up until now, I have avoided any tool changes (hobby work) but now I see reason to initial tool changes without loading a new program each time. THanks
[01:03:54] <BMG> Nevermind - I found the wiki link finally
[01:05:47] <BMG> With manual tool changes, can I do a Z touchoff after installing the new endmill or am I stuck with where it sits in my router?
[01:07:20] <jepler> during a program run you can't use jog or touch off. for this reason, I installed a switch and use G38.2 probing moves to account for the difference in length from the first tool to the new tool
[01:07:55] <jepler> there's a somewhat cryptic example included, called tool-length-probe.ngc
[01:09:16] <BMG> Ok - I thought there was an issue there. Its beyond me for now - I will keep my gcode split to separate files for now. When I have time on the road this week - I will look into that example.
[01:11:18] <BMG> I can never seem to get my endill into the exact same spot in the router - perhaps this is different with true milling equipment.
[01:13:28] <jepler> yeah
[01:15:56] <jepler> on my circuit board milling machine you just insert the tool shank into the spindle and tighten. It's not designed to be particularly repeatable
[01:16:03] <BMG> Jeff: Is that example on the wiki? I can't seem to get the right search words to get it
[01:16:24] <jepler> other systems have tool holders that are always drawn in the same distance, so it works much better (even if the change is manual)
[01:17:00] <jepler> BMG: it should be installed on your system as /usr/share/emc/ncfiles/tool-length-probe.ngc but hold on a second and I'll get you a web link that works
[01:17:10] <BMG> found the example - google hit it - the wiki search did not
[01:17:29] <jepler> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc?rev=1.4;content-type=text%2Fplain
[01:18:57] <BMG> Thanks - thats more informative than the wiki
[01:22:39] <BMG> Jepler: DO you know of any other good web resources describing the switch setup?
[01:22:56] <jepler> BMG: no, not really
[01:23:38] <BMG> Ok - something to research then
[01:23:44] <jepler> on my system, the switch is just a microswitch with the lever attached and pointing up
[01:23:59] <jepler> and the on the parport side, the connection is just the same as for my home switches
[01:29:04] <BMG> So you are simply interrupting the limits?
[01:36:31] <jepler> er, no
[01:36:36] <jepler> there's an input for a touch probe
[01:36:50] <jepler> I meant that the use of a pull-up resistor and all that stuff is the same
[01:43:53] <BMG> Ahh - I recall now that option with stepconf. I now recall there is a good tutorial for a touchprobe on cnczone (don't cringe too much).
[01:46:29] <jepler> but in the case of a tool length sensor, the switch is on the table and you poke it with the tool you want to measure
[01:48:48] <DanielFalck> BMG: could you lock collars on your router bits prior to running a program and get them all set up in a known location? I used to do that for a somewhat not critical job
[01:49:40] <DanielFalck> insert the bits with the collars as a stop into the collet, then you can remove them after the collet has been tightened
[01:51:31] <BMG> Dan - Thats a possibility. I will check that out. I do know the sleeve in the collet wiggles a bit prior to tightening so it may also add variability as well (1.5 hp Porter cable router)
[01:52:45] <jepler> 'night guys
[01:52:54] <DanielFalck> good night
[01:56:43] <BMG> Nite and thanks
[02:00:23] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[02:39:17] <Optic> new video of the laser
[02:39:18] <Optic> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NONCfVUsbyg
[02:40:25] <DanielFalck> great!
[02:41:53] <cradek> cool!
[02:42:06] <jmkasunich> how powerfull is 25W?
[02:42:14] <cradek> are you using Z for the beam control?
[02:42:14] <jmkasunich> IOW, what will it cut?
[02:42:50] <cradek> haha, laser power 8/4/2/1
[02:43:00] <cradek> perfectly sane user interface for a programmer
[02:43:08] <jmkasunich> there are 10 kinds of people
[02:43:35] <Optic> 25W, Z for beam control
[02:43:37] <cradek> exactly
[02:44:00] <jmkasunich> I don't have any idea what 25W means in laser
[02:44:02] <Optic> it won't cut metal
[02:44:08] <Optic> but pretty much any other thin material
[02:44:08] <cradek> ah I see it on the screen, -.001 to .001
[02:44:17] <jmkasunich> cuts paper? cuts thin plastic, thick plastic, wood?
[02:44:22] <Optic> yep
[02:44:33] <DanielFalck> tattos?
[02:44:39] <Optic> probably
[02:44:43] <jmkasunich> how thick? I suppose it depends on the focus
[02:44:43] <Optic> cauterizes as it cuts
[02:44:58] <Optic> yes, the focus makes a big difference
[02:46:00] <jmkasunich> the beam is gonna look something like an hourglass - small and strong at focus, and fatter/weaker above and below
[02:46:04] <jmkasunich> that will limit depth
[02:46:10] <jmkasunich> but I dunno how extreme the angles are
[02:46:32] <toastydeath> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_a66YWasb0Bc/RtHgArH8NhI/AAAAAAAABsU/e2dTXIk9qvU/s400/Kool-AidMan.jpg
[02:46:35] <toastydeath> oops
[02:46:37] <toastydeath> wrong window
[02:46:57] <cradek> ha
[02:47:46] <cradek> reminds me of http://boners.com/content/806729.1.jpg
[02:48:02] <toastydeath> hahahah
[02:48:07] <toastydeath> that was an epic picture
[03:37:32] <Optic> hihi
[03:47:09] <fenn> these guys are my heroes: http://www.batterblaster.com/tv.html
[03:52:29] <Optic> is that a real product?
[03:52:45] <cradek> yes I think so
[03:52:58] <Optic> yikes
[03:53:19] <Optic> if you can't mix up pancake batter, you have problems
[03:53:23] <cradek> wow, their jingle is awful
[03:53:41] <Optic> have you guys used qcad at all?
[03:53:41] <fenn> i saw it at the organic grocery today
[03:53:43] <Optic> it looks pretty good
[03:53:50] <fenn> yes qcad is nice once you get used to it
[03:54:04] <Optic> i'm looking for a good workflow to get artwork to gcode
[03:54:08] <cradek> I'm obviously not used to it yet then
[03:54:15] <Optic> inkscape dxf output is total crap
[03:54:16] <fenn> not as good as inkscape but it's useful for mechanical stuff that has to be precise
[03:54:46] <fenn> Optic: have you seen this? http://www.bobcookdev.com/inkscape/inkscape-dxf.html
[03:55:05] <Optic> yes, that's slightly less crap, but still crap
[03:55:09] <fenn> ok
[03:55:15] <Optic> I made a bunch of circles in inkscape
[03:55:19] <Optic> exported them using that plugin
[03:55:56] <Optic> converted to gcode with this python thing:
[03:55:57] <Optic> http://www.christian-kohloeffel.homepage.t-online.de/dxf2gocde.html
[03:56:04] <Optic> then ran them on the laser cutter
[03:56:11] <fenn> and?
[03:56:14] <Optic> the circles didn't join up properly :)
[03:56:25] <fenn> what do you mean?
[03:56:34] <Optic> they covered about 355 degrees
[03:56:41] <Optic> there was a gap
[03:56:41] <fenn> that's weird
[03:57:02] <Optic> i made some circles in qcad, saved dxf, converted with the same program
[03:57:06] <fenn> you could try converting everything to paths
[03:57:10] <Optic> I noticed i got much nicer gcode, actual g2 arcs
[03:57:25] <fenn> it doesnt export arcs? wtf
[03:57:33] <Optic> it's all g1's
[03:57:39] <Optic> from the inkscape output
[03:57:47] <fenn> open the inkscape output in qcad and see if it's arcs
[03:58:23] <Optic> i'll play with it some more tomorrow
[03:58:32] <fenn> might be splines, in which case i can understand why they'd do g1's
[03:58:41] <toastydeath> http://twitter.com/toastydeath
[03:58:56] <toastydeath> i find it incredible that i can take a picture of a cnc lathe from my cellphone, and post that picture to twitter
[03:58:57] <Optic> anyways, qcam's dxf gave me perfect circles and elipsed
[03:58:59] <Optic> elipses
[03:59:02] <cradek> if you want circles, write gcode - it's so so so easy
[03:59:54] <Optic> i made some perforated paper today with handwritten gcode :)
[03:59:56] <fenn> don't listen to cradek
[04:00:01] <fenn> get your toolchain working
[04:00:01] <cradek> sometimes the fastest way to simple gcode is to write simple gcode
[04:00:28] <cradek> sometimes you might want those splines - but not today - you can have more than one tool because you have more than one kind of problem
[04:00:57] <cradek> doing circles or arcs in something that only knows splines is ... misguided
[04:01:14] <Optic> but they should at least still line up
[04:01:18] <Optic> there's some error in the process
[04:01:41] <fenn> btw you might want to check out the biarc/gcode export script: http://dp.jstenback.com/gcode/
[04:01:46] <cradek> yeah sounds like you might be right
[04:01:56] <jmkasunich> I second cradek's opinion - start by writing g-code by hand
[04:02:03] <Optic> i did a nice tight grid of g81's, you could see through the paper ;)
[04:02:13] <jmkasunich> that way you'll have a chance of figuring out what the toolchain is generating later
[04:02:15] <cradek> if nothing else, then you can troubleshoot more intelligently
[04:02:20] <fenn> i'm not saying you should be totally ignorant of g-code, but you can't expect everyone who uses the laser cutter to know it
[04:02:38] <Optic> more gcode knowledge will help debug the toolchain at least
[04:02:45] <Optic> I can read it and understand it
[04:03:06] <Optic> i will try that gcode.py
[04:03:50] <Optic> overall i'm having a lot of fun
[04:03:58] <Optic> i can make confetti the slow way
[04:08:49] <jmkasunich> make spirals
[04:09:03] <jmkasunich> I think there is a program called arcspiral or such in our samples
[04:09:18] <jmkasunich> that would be neat in paper - hang it by the center
[04:17:00] <Optic> i'll give that a try :)
[04:17:08] <Optic> i've run it before, but not with the laser on
[04:17:13] <Optic> it makes cool stepper motor sounds
[04:19:52] <JymmmEMC> And thus why I would NEVER join twitter... do we really care why your Chinese food is taking so long to deliver?!
[04:22:15] <JymmmEMC> toastydeath: Nothing personal mind you.
[04:27:02] <toastydeath> no offense taken, it's just another tool like email, a phone, or the post
[04:27:14] <toastydeath> if you want to rail against it, it's certainly not going to offend me =)
[04:27:29] <JymmmEMC> No, more like I'm picking my nose, sorta thing is how I see it.
[04:27:43] <toastydeath> some people feel the same way about email.
[04:27:51] <toastydeath> "take the time to send a letter."
[04:30:04] <toastydeath> to be fair i think shaq's twitter is hilarious
[04:30:08] <toastydeath> in that it is horrible
[04:43:24] <eric_unterhause1> I wish comcast would quit playing with their nameservers
[04:45:01] <toastydeath> i switched to the 4.2.2.x nameservers on all my boxes, they're always up
[04:45:20] <toastydeath> (i also have comcast)
[05:01:14] <eric_unterhause1> I was going to change over to Penn State's nameservers, but there is a page where they explain that they don't let you do that
[05:01:24] <eric_unterhause1> I could set up a vpn connection though
[05:04:50] <fenn> one of these has got to work right? http://pastebin.ca/1362000
[05:07:03] <eric_unterhause1> probably, I'll try adding one
[06:36:48] <UncleG> hey guys im working on an X/Y setup for my index machine, is there a special type of thread I should use (acme?) of will most any fine thread system work?
[06:42:33] <UncleG> or*
[07:01:45] <toastydeath> acme is recommended and is available ground or rolled at a guaranteed accuracy, but UN thread is cheap and available in bars
[07:02:06] <toastydeath> it may also be available at a specified accuracy, but i don't know as I've never looked
[07:04:11] <UncleG> well, I was planning to cut/grind the thread myself, maybe i'll just go ahead and take the time to make them acme threads
[07:04:25] <toastydeath> ...you have a thread grinder?
[07:04:40] <UncleG> I have a lathe and a grinder that I can attache to tit.
[07:04:43] <toastydeath> ah
[07:04:44] <UncleG> to.. it*
[07:05:56] <UncleG> After I get another servo I should basically have everything I need to finish this dang slide.
[07:06:01] <toastydeath> a+
[07:06:05] <UncleG> werd
[07:06:35] <UncleG> Do you have a servo system?
[07:07:25] <toastydeath> i'm a machinist
[07:07:32] <toastydeath> i don't own any of my own machines, i use them at work.
[07:08:00] <UncleG> got ya
[07:08:23] <UncleG> Got any plans to build anything?
[07:08:48] <toastydeath> i plan on collecting machines in the future
[07:08:59] <toastydeath> not necessarily building them, however
[07:09:52] <UncleG> well, with this economy the way it is, its putting a lot of guys out and you can pick up real good equipment at auction real cheap. In Indiana/Michigan anyhow..
[07:10:00] <toastydeath> yeah man
[07:10:03] <toastydeath> all over that's the case
[07:10:16] <toastydeath> i just don't have the money or the space to be picking up iron
[07:10:21] <UncleG> yeah.
[07:10:33] <UncleG> space can be a bitch even if you do have the money for it.
[07:11:09] <toastydeath> girlfriend is all for moving into a warehouse and putting up a little apartment type thing inside to live in.
[07:11:24] <toastydeath> provided we can find one zoned for that, et cetera
[07:12:02] <UncleG> right
[07:12:10] <UncleG> sounds like a sweet g/f you got there
[07:12:22] <toastydeath> yep
[07:12:33] <UncleG> mine would flip at such a suggestion
[07:12:43] <toastydeath> haha =(
[07:12:48] <UncleG> yeah
[07:13:21] <UncleG> thats okay my computer room is filled to the max with various cnc stuff right now and the kitchen sink has parts soakin in mineral spirits :)
[07:13:34] <toastydeath> hahaha
[07:14:07] <UncleG> no... the spirits arent goin down the drain (foreveryone who reads this and gasps)
[07:14:30] <toastydeath> i think most people here have enough dangerous chemicals to not get snotty about such things
[07:14:39] <UncleG> yeah
[07:14:52] <UncleG> I need a bigger shop though, and one closer to home.
[07:15:07] <UncleG> the place is always crowded
[07:15:16] <toastydeath> what place?
[07:16:29] <UncleG> Huntingtin Screw Machine... my shop
[07:16:37] <toastydeath> oh, cool
[07:20:43] <UncleG> if you care to see what im working on http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=44930072&albumId=2499251
[07:21:37] <toastydeath> oh wow
[07:21:39] <toastydeath> that's awesome
[07:22:20] <UncleG> it should be a fun project.
[07:25:30] <UncleG> http://www.ottomatics.com/inventory/uploads/images/1197995095.jpg
[07:25:36] <UncleG> thats the machine im building it for
[07:25:48] <toastydeath> swiss screw machine at your shop?
[07:26:06] <UncleG> the cross slides and the turret is already converted to cnc, im just making a cnc profiler for it
[07:26:16] <toastydeath> oh wow
[07:26:27] <UncleG> no, I just have acmes and davenports and 3 of those index machine you see there
[07:26:30] <toastydeath> so like, you're ripping the cams out and making it fully cnc?
[07:26:34] <UncleG> :)
[07:26:35] <UncleG> you got it
[07:26:37] <toastydeath> that's awesome
[07:26:44] <UncleG> yeah it kicks so much ass :P
[07:27:13] <UncleG> its basically going to be an automatic turret /cnc lathe
[07:30:23] <UncleG> I thought about adding a servo to the spindle as an auxillary motor that I can choose to run if I want to make do swiss type work, such as making a part like this >>http://www.globalspec.com/NpaPics/14/149937_092620036773_ExhibitPic_thumb.gif
[07:31:21] <toastydeath> hot
[07:31:28] <UncleG> lol yeah
[07:36:02] <UncleG> I figure, If I can put a motor and collet/chuck on my profiling attachment and add a servo to the spindle I could do some pretty awesome parts.
[07:36:24] <UncleG> it might be well worth my time
[07:50:25] <MrSunshine> anyone know today hat i should set pfd to (mixed decay), make it variable from 0 - 4 volts, or set it to 0.21 - 0.6 x vdd to set it to mixed decay mode?
[08:14:25] <UncleG> MrSunshine: goodluck with that one, im off to Unreal Tournament
[08:27:38] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[11:28:59] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[11:29:40] <micges> good morning
[11:39:00] <piasdom> anyone know a good lettering program in can use /w emc ?
[11:47:13] <micges> nope
[11:47:30] <alex_joni> piasdom: lettering?
[11:48:46] <piasdom> alex_joni: i need to mill words in alum
[11:50:34] <piasdom> our supplier didn't pass the new requirements so we need to start doing our own panels
[11:50:52] <pjm_> piasdom 'desk engrave' is good for simple writing stuff
[11:51:30] <piasdom> pjm: thanks..know something that i can use in linux ?
[11:51:47] <pjm_> deskengrave under wine?
[11:57:11] <piasdom> pjm: thanks..ok..
[11:57:31] <piasdom> i'll try it in vbox i guess
[12:15:39] <alex_joni> piasdom: als true-type-tracer can be usefull
[12:16:08] <alex_joni> piasdom: http://www.timeguy.com/cradek/truetype
[12:16:55] <alex_joni> if you have Ubuntu 8.04 (then "sudo apt-get install truetype-tracer" will do the trick)
[12:22:38] <piasdom> thanks....try deskengrave....saved file as dxf,but all it's doing is moving the z up/down at x0y0
[12:22:52] <archivist> I must get on with my Vform version of it
[12:23:12] <piasdom> alex_joni: thanks..i have 8.04
[12:26:37] <piasdom> alex_joni: tracer already installed..how do i use it or is it a behind the scene apt ?
[12:27:30] <alex_joni> piasdom: truetype-tracer "text" > file.ngc
[12:27:57] <piasdom> thanks
[12:36:19] <piasdom> alex_joni: tracer working great....are there other fonts ?
[12:46:49] <piasdom> G00 X [640*#3+#5] Y [3008*#3+#6]...is the 3008 metric ? (trying to figure the height of font)
[12:49:03] <alex_joni> piasdom: you can use any ttf font you want
[12:49:11] <alex_joni> truetype-tracer --help
[12:50:39] <piasdom> thanks
[12:53:48] <piasdom> truetype-tracer --help .....says invalid option
[13:05:28] <alex_joni> try without anything
[13:19:47] <piasdom> it just don't like me :)....been looking online
[13:33:56] <archivist> ly does outlines at the moment
[13:34:03] <archivist> it only
[13:39:28] <piasdom> cool, thanks..., it's more then i had
[13:46:25] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[13:52:07] <fenn> piasdom i wrote a script to convert stick fonts to gcode: http://fenn.freeshell.org/cxf2cnc.py
[13:53:00] <fenn> and these are the fonts you need to use it: http://fenn.freeshell.org/cxf_fonts.tgz
[13:54:41] <fenn> screenshot http://fenn.freeshell.org/cxf2cnc.png
[14:11:10] <Guest381> Tottish: is that bigjohn told you on cnczone make sense?
[14:11:20] <Guest381> Guest381 is now known as skunkworks_
[14:12:05] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75822
[14:19:02] <piasdom> fenn; thanks
[14:21:16] <piasdom> alex_joni; it's man truetype-tracer (found it online)
[14:38:02] <Optic> hihi
[14:47:10] <piasdom> pjm_; deskengrave doesn't work too well in wine "OR" vbox
[14:51:12] <pjm_> piasdom interesting to know! thanks
[15:20:44] <stuste1> whoppee - I think I just figured out the cinci kinematics!!!!!
[15:21:01] <stuste1> I hate to reveal the problem
[15:21:27] <stuste1> I had an * where I needed a /
[15:23:43] <skunkworks_> heh - I never do things like that.... ;)
[15:23:51] <skunkworks_> How is it running?
[15:25:05] <stuste1> I haven't put it on the machine yet - I am still in the sim
[15:25:23] <SWPadnos> woohoo!
[15:25:28] <SWPadnos> (provisionally anyway)
[15:25:30] <skunkworks_> Cool Beans!
[15:25:49] <stuste1> I am thinking woohoo is good
[15:25:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:26:26] <SWPadnos> as long as you're in a good mood, any chance of moving the dates for EMC-MPM-fest a couple of weeks later? :)
[15:26:35] <Optic> hi
[15:28:33] <stuste1> anytime is good for me - I like the split week (over the weekend) timeframe - this is the time to move it
[15:29:31] <stuste1> we are working 4 days a week - Mon thru Thur - this will allow Fri, Sat and Sun with no one else in the shop
[15:29:58] <SWPadnos> over a weekend is fine with me too
[15:30:10] <stuste1> I think most everyone is flexible on the timeframe
[15:30:32] <SWPadnos> I may have to be in LA shooting an event at the end of May, and leaving the week before, when I should be finishing the software/hardware needed for the event, wouldn't be a good idea for me :)
[15:30:38] <stuste1> if two weeks is good for most everyone else then we can change it
[15:31:13] <stuste1> we can run it up the flagpole and see what others think
[15:31:15] <SWPadnos> ok, cool. I should respond to the list so people can comment, but I don't want to make everything revolve around me, and I don't know if I need the change yet
[15:31:42] <stuste1> WWEEELLLLL - make up your mind :)
[15:31:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:31:59] <SWPadnos> unfortunately it's the clients that make up my mind, and you know how they are
[15:32:27] <stuste1> I am in business for myself - I don't have a boss - just every customer is my boss
[15:33:04] <stuste1> uh - and my wife :)
[15:33:14] <SWPadnos> yep. same deal here
[15:33:36] <SWPadnos> or as they say - when you're in business you only have to work half time
[15:33:44] <SWPadnos> the other 12 hours a day you get to do whatever you want
[15:35:22] <SWPadnos> I guess that's better when you include all the words ("...in business for yourself...")
[15:36:13] <stuste1> I tell people I just work 1/2 days - I get to choose which 12
[15:36:19] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:38:17] <cnc_engineer> Hi EveryOne....!
[15:39:53] <cradek> darn, I'd rather keep the dates we have
[15:41:13] <SWPadnos> heh - I guess I'm outvoted :)
[15:43:33] <cradek> but I'd also like you to be able to come
[15:44:09] <SWPadnos> yeah. it does kind of suck when people don't make their decisions when they said they would
[15:44:10] <cnc_engineer> How can we use emc with Arm type, Auto Tool Changer Mechanism ? because it requires tool shifting in magzine pockets...
[15:44:17] <SWPadnos> I was supposed to know for sure last week ...
[15:44:59] <cradek> cnc_engineer: are you sure the machine can't put tools back in the original pockets? Even if it didn't originally do that, the design might allow it.
[15:47:57] <cnc_engineer> ya in such machines arm exchanges tool between spindle and magzine at same time.
[15:48:37] <cradek> sometimes true, not always
[15:48:58] <cradek> there's currently no support for tools moving to different pockets
[15:49:03] <SWPadnos> on the Mazak, the exchange is done between the spindle and a pivoting tool holder
[15:49:19] <SWPadnos> so we move the magazine to the right spot before putting the tool back in the magazine
[15:50:44] <cnc_engineer> In such machines arm has fingers at both ends, it holds the tool next to be called in the program at one end.
[15:52:06] <jepler> you have the full power of hal to write a custom component that translates between tool numbers and magazine numbers
[15:58:48] <stuste1> the only problem I see with a hal component tracking the tool / magazine numbers is keeping track of the numbers during a machine shutdown
[15:59:09] <SWPadnos> luckily, that can be addressed with changes to the run script
[15:59:16] <cradek> the hal component could be userland which makes file IO easy
[15:59:21] <SWPadnos> (that was also the first thing I thought of - startup/shutdown)
[15:59:30] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/translator.png
[15:59:54] <jepler> yes I also imagine it would be a userspace component
[15:59:56] <SWPadnos> and since there's a number in the tool table that can be used for this (FMS), there's even a good place to put the numbers
[16:00:11] <stuste1> then problem solved - I will need this capability soon (the definition of soon is variable)
[16:00:42] <jepler> SWPadnos: I'm not so sure about that (how does the magazine translator set FMS? I'm not sure there's a way for it to do so)
[16:01:23] <stuste1> first things first - I am going to the cinci to play - bbl
[16:01:30] <SWPadnos> oh - I don't know that a HAL component would do that, but a userspace component or part of the run script could read/write the tool table for you (I think)
[16:01:57] <jepler> only one program should read/write the tool table (I forget if that program is iocontrol or task)
[16:02:08] <jepler> so you shouldn't write a userspace component that directly writes the tool table
[16:04:06] <cradek> IMO, this belongs in emc, not hal
[16:04:50] <cradek> the tool number and magazine number should be in the tool table. there's probably a lot of fixup to make that work.
[16:06:50] <jepler> I agree and disagree.
[16:07:07] <jepler> long term, I'd love to see some new contributions related to tool changing to go into core emc (task and/or iocontrol)
[16:07:51] <jepler> short term, I think that my suggestion would prove useful and might be quicker to implement than a system that is sufficiently flexible to go into core emc
[16:08:25] <cradek> yes, I bet that is true
[16:09:05] <cnc_engineer> would you please guide me to write a user component?
[16:09:53] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_comp.html http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_halmodule.html and look at examples in src/hal/user_comps
[16:10:15] <jepler> and of course the hal manpages
[16:13:20] <Optic> mmm
[17:48:55] <alex_joni> stuste1: that's good news :)
[17:49:25] <alex_joni> stuste1: hope you got around to send Dale some pics of the Dahlih, and the other emc2 machines
[18:06:19] <alex_joni> this looks interesting: https://launchpad.net/screen-profiles
[20:45:10] <JohnAsh> hey question - were any mods done to the RTAI 2.6.24-16 version that you get from instaling EMC thru "emc2-install.sh" ?
[20:45:17] <JohnAsh> in the past 2 weeks?
[20:48:10] <cradek> no
[20:48:37] <JohnAsh> then this version does not like ati prop. drivers
[20:49:34] <cradek> sorry, I don't know anything about that
[20:49:35] <JohnAsh> i went thru hell trying to install EMC because of that
[20:49:39] <cradek> (except that I would not use them)
[20:49:55] <JohnAsh> nice hint lol
[20:50:19] <JohnAsh> 8.04 has alot of bugs
[20:51:21] <JohnAsh> wish I would have talked to you before I went thru hell
[20:51:21] <cradek> are you going to use this install to control machinery, or just simulate? For simulation you can use any kernel you want.
[20:51:27] <SWPadnos> proprietary drivers often don't work well for realtime applications, so incompatibility with them isn't really relevant
[20:51:53] <cradek> yes, hence my question - makes a big difference
[20:51:54] <JohnAsh> man - where can i read that from ..lol\
[20:52:12] <SWPadnos> our wiki says that, from the experiences of several users
[20:52:29] <JohnAsh> man... where?
[20:52:37] <cradek> HardwareRequirements
[20:52:51] <JohnAsh> sure...
[20:53:17] <cradek> also, it's in the full docs "System Requirements": http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/common_System_Requirements.html
[20:53:32] <cradek> "Graphics card capable of at least 800x600 resolution, which is not using the NVidia or ATI fglrx proprietary drivers, and which is not an onboard video chipset that shares main memory with the CPU"
[20:54:12] <JohnAsh> now I feel stupid.. thanks
[20:54:20] <SWPadnos> my work is done :)
[20:54:24] <cradek> some information about simulation without realtime here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Pure_Simulator
[20:55:08] <JohnAsh> im not humored at all..lol
[20:55:15] <cradek> JohnAsh: half the task is knowing where to look
[20:55:19] <JohnAsh> except for my stupidity
[20:55:57] <JohnAsh> that live cd still dont work worth a sh...
[20:56:11] <cradek> well, that's not my experience
[20:56:19] <cradek> (and also not a helpful bug report)
[20:58:23] <JohnAsh> I must have worn out my NEW hard drive trying to install ubuntu 8.04 along weith EMC..I did this a year or so ago with no problems.. First time .. probably with 6.06
[20:59:06] <JohnAsh> worked first time - like linux should
[21:00:07] <JohnAsh> there is definatly a bug with the scsi part at install
[21:00:15] <cradek> nobody can help if you only say it doesn't work
[21:00:50] <JohnAsh> what does it choose via a random number generator what hard drive it wants to install to?
[21:01:03] <cradek> ok, if you have scsi, that's a bit unusual, but not unheard of
[21:01:26] <cradek> bbl.
[21:02:38] <JohnAsh> ok next qustion - does anyone have a good script or something to test out latency?
[21:03:40] <SWPadnos> if you have booted the 8.04 liveCD, or have emc 2.2.x installed, you have the latency-test program available
[21:03:53] <SWPadnos> there is also an RTAI latency tester
[21:04:30] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[21:04:41] <JohnAsh> will it test hard- because im not puting this software on a real machine with alot of tests
[21:04:50] <JohnAsh> to unstable
[21:05:11] <SWPadnos> do you mean "without a lot of tests"?
[21:06:41] <JohnAsh> well im just not feeling real safe- putting 8.04 on a real machine.
[21:07:12] <JohnAsh> ripping off the customers old control which works... and putting this on
[21:07:18] <SWPadnos> there's no way to emulate running a latency test - you must use the kernel you want to test on the PC you want to test
[21:07:47] <SWPadnos> you can do that by booting from the liveCD, which will not affect the installed system
[21:08:41] <SWPadnos> if you can't boot the liveCD, and you have no spare hard disk to install to (or you can't install on that machine for some other reason), then there's no need to run the latency test on that machine, since EMC2 will not on it work anyway
[21:09:07] <JohnAsh> i threw away the live cd
[21:09:33] <SWPadnos> that will make latency testing more difficult
[21:09:41] <JohnAsh> lol
[21:10:11] <JohnAsh> the live cd is embedded in my drywall
[21:11:38] <dareposte> where is this emc fest?
[21:11:50] <SWPadnos> Stuart's place, Wichita
[21:12:41] <dareposte> ahh
[21:13:09] <dareposte> far far away
[21:17:42] <jtr> g0 z2
[21:24:33] <dareposte> Johanybody ever used one of those cheapy asian oscopes? like an Owon: http://www.tequipment.net/OWONEDU5022.html
[21:25:43] <dareposte> i was in japan and saw one for like 30,000 yen ~ $315 usd, didn't get it but was wondering if they are worthwhile
[21:26:01] <dareposte> and now that i find out they're also available stateside... hmm maybe need to test it out
[21:27:35] <stuste1> dareposte: Wichita is not the end of the world - but you can see it from here :)
[21:28:24] <dareposte> I'm not entirely sure Wichita actually exists, never seen it before
[21:28:31] <dareposte> although several people claim to have ;-)
[21:29:15] <stuste1> it is a perfect sized town - big enough to have a traffic jam but small enough the traffic jam lasts only about 20 minutes :)
[21:29:26] <dareposte> that is a nice size
[21:29:37] <dareposte> very generous of you to host such an event too
[21:29:53] <stuste1> where are you?
[21:29:56] <dareposte> KY
[21:30:07] <stuste1> not so far far away
[21:30:11] <dareposte> my town isn't big enough for a traffic jam, but it's nearby one that is contantly a jam
[21:30:33] <dareposte> mostly due to poor traffic planning though
[21:30:47] <stuste1> planning for a horse and buggy?
[21:31:05] <dareposte> yeah
[21:31:19] <dareposte> not quite that bad
[21:31:29] <dareposte> just a half million people with no real infrastructure
[21:32:01] <stuste1> just think - this will work well after the economy collapses - bicycles, scooter, motorcycles, walking
[21:32:18] <dareposte> i think the big traffic improvement came back in the 70's when they installed the multidirectional arrows that switched lane directions during rush hours
[21:32:46] <stuste1> that switch is very helpful
[21:33:01] <dareposte> helpful only so long as you're going the direction of rush hour
[21:33:17] <dareposte> if you're trying to get back into town during 5:00 rush hour, you get one lane and it takes an eternity
[21:33:27] <stuste1> heh
[21:34:42] <dareposte> i'm a fan of bicycling, but no lanes and its positively a death wish
[21:34:59] <dareposte> narrow country roads, big dually diesels
[21:35:13] <stuste1> there will be a very few cars then
[21:35:18] <dareposte> yeah it might be nice
[21:35:31] <dareposte> well that part
[21:35:56] <dareposte> i'm not convinced the economy will collapse though
[21:36:07] <dareposte> not to that level
[21:36:27] <stuste1> road warrior is around the corner :)
[21:36:46] <dareposte> so instead of servos i should probably buy ammo?
[21:36:53] <stuste1> food
[21:37:13] <dareposte> i'm game, lay it on me
[21:38:16] <stuste1> this is not the list to discuss the coming problems (not related to emc2) but we are in for some FUN?!? times
[21:38:32] <dmess> get ammo i'll get us food
[21:38:41] <dareposte> i have enough ammo i think
[21:38:44] <dareposte> sort of a "problem" of mine
[21:38:52] <dmess> not for the long run
[21:39:15] <dmess> hmm been in the news lately??
[21:39:26] <dareposte> no, i just have almost a closet full of cans of it
[21:39:32] <dareposte> see some at a gun show, buy it
[21:39:39] <dmess> for what calibers??
[21:39:42] <dareposte> 22 mostly
[21:39:48] <dmess> LOL
[21:39:53] <dareposte> i can't pass up a cheap 50 cal ammo can full of 22
[21:40:05] <dmess> LOL
[21:40:26] <dareposte> not a fan of the ol' 22 are ya
[21:40:46] <dmess> your killin' me.. i have seen a moose taken with a 22 long rifle
[21:41:16] <dmess> i love it... mine is a cooey (sp) model 99
[21:41:49] <dareposte> i wouldn't try to take a moose with it, but it's plenty good for most things i'd like to eat around here
[21:41:58] <dmess> single shot sniper's weapon she was fir me
[21:43:07] <dmess> a buddy spooked a cow moose while hunting 'wabbit and he shot her in the eye.. fell on the spot
[21:43:23] <dareposte> i believe it
[21:43:36] <dareposte> placement is 90% of the game
[21:43:48] <dareposte> my granddad used to hunt with rocks, and was pretty successful
[21:43:58] <dareposte> he told me you just have to hit 'em in the head
[21:43:59] <dmess> then ive seen the other extreme on a moose a 45:70
[21:45:05] <dmess> that is 1 bad ass gun
[21:45:53] <dmess> you can slide a 410 shotgun shell down the barrel of this rifle and it drops out the front
[21:48:14] <dareposte> never seen one thaaat big
[21:48:28] <dareposte> although my friend has a 50 bmg
[21:48:33] <dareposte> and i suppose you could do that
[21:50:17] <dmess> yup i bet you could
[22:14:32] <dareposte> so nobody on the cheap oscopes?
[22:15:55] <SWPadnos> dareposte, I looked at the web info for the owon scopes a while ago (I think JymmmEMC was looking at getting one), and I wasn't impressed
[22:18:08] <JymmmEMC> but SWPadnos is bias too =)
[22:18:38] <SWPadnos> only slightly
[22:19:29] <JymmmEMC> =)
[22:19:39] <dareposte> i think i may try one out
[22:19:49] <dareposte> if for no other reason than to see if they are decent or not
[22:19:53] <dareposte> not an agilent or HP no doubt
[22:20:30] <dareposte> i have a big old HP that works well, and it has a carry handle
[22:20:32] <dareposte> mostly for looks i gues
[22:20:50] <dareposte> cuz i would NOT want to carry it more than a few hundred yards
[22:21:22] <dareposte> SWPadnos: anything in particular you didn't like?
[22:21:50] <dareposte> i see the adc is a bit slow, and only 8 bit
[22:23:22] <SWPadnos> one sec - phone
[22:28:21] <SWPadnos> dareposte, I don't remember exactly, but I think the redraw rate was terrible, the actual bandwidth or smeple rate weren't very good, and the record length was also not so great
[22:28:31] <SWPadnos> s/smeple/sample/
[22:30:28] <dareposte> yeah sounds about right
[22:31:18] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:33:36] <dareposte> JymmmEMC: did you ever wind up getting one??
[23:26:54] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[23:28:40] <BMG> Got a question on the Axis Touchoff
[23:29:13] <BMG> If I set a new X=0 location and after I am done is there a way back to the machine X=0?
[23:31:03] <BMG> <checks for a pulse>
[23:34:01] <SWPadnos> BMG, I'm not an expert on using EMC, but I'm pretty sure that touch-off doesn't change anything related to machine coordinates
[23:34:04] <toastydeath> g53
[23:34:06] <SWPadnos> it only changes an offset
[23:34:22] <toastydeath> g53 g90 g0 x0
[23:34:34] <toastydeath> make sure your machine isn't in a position to hit something when you run that command
[23:35:19] <toastydeath> g53 makes the next command run in machine coordinates
[23:35:21] <BMG> OK - then I can reset the touchoff once I return to that position
[23:35:27] <BMG> Cool
[23:35:30] <toastydeath> and g28 also does
[23:35:40] <toastydeath> g28 is the axis home command, which by definition is machine zero
[23:35:58] <toastydeath> g28 g91 x0; g91;
[23:35:59] <BMG> Still drowning in the deep end of Gcode (and machining in general)
[23:36:01] <toastydeath> er
[23:36:02] <toastydeath> g90;
[23:36:54] <toastydeath> g28 g91 x0; g90;
[23:37:45] <BMG> Is there a code to simply wipe the offset?
[23:37:58] <BMG> then a g0 x0 should get me there?
[23:38:27] <toastydeath> there is but i don't ever use it, so i couldn't tell you.
[23:38:41] <toastydeath> it's one of the G10 commands
[23:41:36] <BMG> G91 is Incremental mode. Is that what I want to invoke?
[23:42:13] <toastydeath> always kick it back go g90.
[23:42:31] <toastydeath> I'm not sure how EMC handles g28, it varies radically between control types
[23:42:55] <toastydeath> so like, to homogenize it across all makes, the command is "g28 g91 <axes to home>; g90;"
[23:43:01] <JymmmEMC> dareposte: no
[23:44:18] <toastydeath> some controls, when you issue g28, treat the axes as incremental by default, so there's no issue
[23:44:51] <toastydeath> but if the control treats them as absolute, it's going to go to the place you've told it to go to, in the current coordinate system, before it goes home
[23:45:14] <toastydeath> so on those machines, "g28 x0" would move to X0 in the current coordinate system, THEN home
[23:45:30] <toastydeath> "g28 g91 x0" says, "don't go anywhere, then go home."
[23:46:12] <SWPadnos> I think in EMC2 that says "don't move, then go home for X only"
[23:46:22] <SWPadnos> the manual does state that only the named axes will be moved
[23:46:31] <toastydeath> it's kind of a detail when you're homing x and y, but g28 is usually used to home z, and if you have an absolute homing machine, a quick trip to Z0 from wheever you are could be bad
[23:48:01] <toastydeath> it's a quick test, just home x in absolute
[23:48:10] <toastydeath> if it moves elsewhere then goes home, you know.
[23:59:01] <BMG> Now I am scared... err confused... er both )
[23:59:02] <ds3> Mmm random Z moves
[23:59:50] <ds3> can we do that on a 20HP machine with a 2" EM :D