#emc | Logs for 2009-03-08

[00:00:13] <toastyde1th> how would you determine on and off using z?
[00:00:32] <Optic> if the program was going ot put the mill into the work, it would instead turn the laser on
[00:00:46] <toastyde1th> the machine doesn't know where the part is
[00:01:02] <Optic> right
[00:01:09] <toastyde1th> all it knows is where it is - so i'm not sure how you'd translate the arbitrary dimension, z, into an on/off command
[00:01:35] <JymmmEMC> There's also the PPS too
[00:01:53] <JymmmEMC> But spindle speed some more reasonable for that
[00:02:09] <JymmmEMC> not to mention laswer pwr
[00:02:12] <JymmmEMC> laser
[00:02:19] <Optic> we don't need to control the power level really
[00:02:26] <Optic> as long as we can keep the feed rate quite constant
[00:02:39] <JymmmEMC> what about PPS ?
[00:02:44] <Optic> what's PPS?
[00:02:47] <JymmmEMC> err PPI
[00:02:50] <JymmmEMC> Pulse per inch
[00:02:53] <Optic> i'm totally green, i've been reading linuxcnc.org all day :)
[00:02:59] <JymmmEMC> i forget which one it is
[00:03:59] <toastyde1th> i dunno, but it sounds like it would be best to just have the machine on during a feed, and off during a rapid
[00:04:26] <Optic> sounds good
[00:04:28] <JymmmEMC> depends on if it's cutting or rngraving
[00:04:35] <Optic> it will be engraving
[00:04:49] <JymmmEMC> what materials?
[00:04:59] <Optic> plastics mostly
[00:05:10] <JymmmEMC> acrylic?
[00:05:39] <Optic> yes, whatever is good with co2
[00:05:39] <JymmmEMC> Casue you know you need to avoid PVC's
[00:05:45] <Optic> yes
[00:05:48] <JymmmEMC> ok
[00:05:56] <jmkasunich> poison fumes?
[00:05:58] <Optic> there are lots of things that make bad gasses, we've been researching that :)
[00:06:02] <JymmmEMC> jmk yeah
[00:06:13] <Optic> also we're setting up a very good ventilation system
[00:06:32] <JymmmEMC> Optic: Doens't matter, the HCL also ruins the optics
[00:06:53] <Optic> we have a lot to learn :)
[00:07:04] <JymmmEMC> What power is this CO2 laser?
[00:07:10] <Optic> i'm looking at hpgl to g-code converters
[00:07:16] <Optic> 25 watt
[00:08:12] <Optic> the machine is a ULS 25PS
[00:08:16] <Optic> with a totally broken computer
[00:08:28] <Optic> the laser is a synrad 48-1
[00:08:32] <JymmmEMC> That's the one with USB iface isn't it?
[00:08:38] <Optic> nope, it's old school
[00:08:47] <Optic> the old controller had a centronics parallel
[00:08:58] <JymmmEMC> Ah, it's PPI = Pulses Per Inch
[00:09:00] <JymmmEMC> http://www.gccworld.com/application.php?PROD_TYPE=laser_engraver
[00:09:08] <Optic> we've been able to control the laser and the steppers
[00:10:43] <Optic> our electronics geek is making an emc-compatible parallel port control board
[00:10:48] <JymmmEMC> did they use a printer driver for that?
[00:11:18] <Optic> yeah, it was a custom windows 95 printer driver thing with CorelDraw
[00:11:28] <toastyde1th> that's so cool
[00:11:34] <JymmmEMC> toastyde1th: ?
[00:11:45] <toastyde1th> i just think a printer driver for a laser engraver is cool.
[00:11:56] <toastyde1th> i don't know anything about the subject, just it sounds neat.
[00:12:00] <JymmmEMC> toastyde1th: Oh, yeah. it's just hpgl
[00:12:10] <JymmmEMC> glorified plotter
[00:12:28] <Optic> which is the kind of control we want
[00:12:36] <Optic> is emc the right thing?
[00:12:47] <Optic> it looks like it is right
[00:13:04] <JymmmEMC> Optic: Silly question, why not contact ULS and get a replacement board?
[00:13:16] <toastyde1th> emc is more for cutting than drawing things, imro
[00:13:32] <skunkworks> I think spindle on/off isn't real time enough. You might either look at z or the digital i/o like http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M62-to-M65:
[00:14:13] <Optic> jymm: ULS won't talk to us because our unit is too old
[00:14:14] <fenn> did whatsisname ever get that to work?
[00:14:28] <fenn> the raster scanning with m62
[00:14:38] <Optic> there's a thrid party company who makes a complete replacement controller, but it's expensive
[00:14:42] <Optic> besides, this is a fun hack project
[00:14:50] <JymmmEMC> Optic: fair enough.
[00:15:10] <Optic> skunk: cool!
[00:15:36] <fenn> Optic: this guy is using emc in a raster scan fashion: http://smtstencil.co.uk/
[00:15:37] <Optic> so what to hpgl to gcode converters do?
[00:16:03] <fenn> i can't remember who all is using lasers but there are a number of them
[00:16:34] <Optic> wow, very cool
[00:16:58] <Optic> this is very helpful
[00:18:31] <fenn> what sort of work are you thinking about doing?
[00:19:06] <Optic> we don't even really know what's possible yet
[00:19:22] <Optic> signs, artwork, that kind of thing
[00:19:32] <Optic> putting graphics on ipods
[00:19:47] <Optic> it's an experiment, not a commercial project ;)
[00:22:39] <Optic> we did an arduino program to do pwm control of the laser and the required tickle signal
[00:22:44] <Optic> works like a charm
[00:24:54] <Optic> http://gallery.me.com/danfraser#100006
[00:25:01] <Optic> some photos of the thing
[00:30:36] <toastyde1th> cool
[00:35:38] <fenn> god i hate websites like that
[00:36:12] <fenn> what's wrong with html again?
[00:36:41] <Optic> haha, nothing
[00:36:46] <Optic> it was just the fastest way to upload photos
[00:45:38] <toastyde1th> http://machinetools.com/MT/machines/index.tmpl?page=detail&ListingID=122179074477250858
[00:45:49] <toastyde1th> anybody need to mill the roof off a car
[01:07:36] <dareposte> cradek: It turned out the threading problem I was having was a noisy encoder line
[01:08:00] <skunkworks> dareposte: nice video!
[01:08:05] <dareposte> thanks :)
[01:08:18] <dgarr> seconded!
[01:08:27] <dareposte> sorry it was a bit blurry
[01:08:34] <dareposte> apparently my camera doesn't focus as well up close
[01:08:52] <dareposte> but it showed enough i think
[01:09:52] <dareposte> after running 50 of those, i decided a tool changer is not just a convenience!!
[01:10:03] <dareposte> and hydraulic chuck too
[01:17:00] <jmkasunich> cd ..
[01:17:08] <jmkasunich> oops
[01:20:30] <fenn> where's this video?
[01:26:54] <dareposte> fenn: youtube, a video of cutting NPT threads
[01:27:11] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWtyjMShFns&feature=channel_page
[01:28:00] <dareposte> at least I think that's the one they meant, or else the one of my lathe not working properly on the G33 function. That wound up being noise on the spindle index line
[01:28:23] <dareposte> that video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOPqd4JzxA4&feature=channel_page
[01:29:52] <dareposte> HALscope didn't see the noise because it was set to 4 channels and I guess was missing it with the lower sampling rate, but my real scope found it, and then when I put HALscope to a single channel it was showing up
[01:31:40] <fenn> * fenn adds video to the wiki
[01:35:08] <dareposte> wiki
[01:48:20] <bglackin> Just a commpent back to using the Z axis for controlling the laser - why not have a Z axis off the board controlling a spring loaded switch. Z down .25" or so and switch contacts, z to 0 and switch loses contact. just a thought
[01:49:02] <bglackin> Switch controls laser on/off
[01:49:34] <jmkasunich> if you are going to do that, you could do the same thing in HAL
[01:49:41] <Optic> hmm
[01:49:50] <bglackin> Z axis is realtime
[01:49:53] <jmkasunich> comparator looking at Z position command and comparing it to a threshold
[01:49:56] <Optic> bglackin: that's exactly what I was thinking of doing
[01:50:10] <jmkasunich> HAL is realtime (HAL is what handles all of EMC2's realtime stuff)
[01:50:13] <Optic> in a HAL
[01:50:28] <Optic> Z at -0.1 -> laser on
[01:50:32] <Optic> Z at 0 -> laser off
[01:50:37] <jmkasunich> the main tricky part about using hal (or a switch) is dealing with offsets
[01:50:57] <bglackin> I am a weakling on the dynamics of the software - just thinking how to do it with my limited knowledge
[01:51:29] <bglackin> I don't understand the offsets - isn't the laser precise?
[01:51:51] <jmkasunich> I mean any offsets you might have in g-code
[01:51:59] <bglackin> <--- shows his gross lack of EMC knowledge or machining for that matter
[01:52:00] <jmkasunich> plus any offset due to homing, etc
[01:52:00] <Optic> yeah
[01:52:30] <Optic> it should be possible to account for that
[01:52:30] <jmkasunich> HAL normally only has access to raw motor position, offsets are handled in the interpreter, and homing is in the motion controller
[01:52:53] <jmkasunich> I think the motion controller might have axis position output pins that would eliminate the homing offsets, you'd have to look that up
[01:53:13] <Optic> i expect we're plotting mostly from 2d vector formats and making gcode from that
[01:53:17] <Optic> not running arbitrary gcode
[01:53:30] <bglackin> using a real Z with a switch would eliminate that concern yes?
[01:53:40] <Optic> that would be such a nasty hack ;)
[01:53:40] <jmkasunich> bglackin: yes and now
[01:53:41] <jmkasunich> no
[01:54:11] <jmkasunich> using a real switch would require that you home Z, and would still be affected by any g-code Z offsets
[01:54:24] <jmkasunich> not that you'd intentionally use any Z offsets in your g-code, but...
[01:56:15] <bglackin> The key is to write good gcode then with no z offsets P
[02:34:37] <toastyde1th> i am struggling with how to approach quick and dirty cnc work
[02:35:10] <toastyde1th> it seems whenever i have something simple and stupid to make, i always waste more time goofing around trying to just get the part made rather than if i'd sat down and just wrote the code
[02:45:42] <dareposte> hmm
[02:45:48] <dareposte> precision computer control + quick and dirty
[02:45:54] <dareposte> sounds dangerous
[02:46:37] <toastyde1th> not really
[02:46:54] <jmkasunich> sometimes all you need is a simple hole pattern, or a bore, or whatever
[02:47:02] <jmkasunich> "poke hole here"
[02:47:06] <dareposte> i need a cord to download from my brain to the machine
[02:47:09] <dareposte> do they make those yet?
[02:47:24] <toastyde1th> not that i'm aware of.
[02:47:58] <toastyde1th> i guess part of my problem is that these jobs pop up at the school machine shop, rather than at work
[02:48:09] <toastyde1th> and the school's machine shop is in total shambles with bits everywhere
[02:48:17] <toastyde1th> so even doing something like finding a vice stop can take an hour
[02:49:43] <toastyde1th> i guess the lesson is it's probably better to just do it like any other part instead of trying to fudge offsets and things
[02:50:51] <fenn> you just need to cad model everything in the universe
[02:51:12] <fenn> then when you want to do a quick and dirty mod, you can do it the proper way
[02:51:46] <fenn> anyway if it's that quick and dirty can't you just use MDI or jogging?
[02:53:13] <toastyde1th> if i'm facing something long it leaves a poor finish
[02:53:43] <toastyde1th> i was thinking about mdi, but haas controls are really crappy for having control over that
[02:54:09] <toastyde1th> there's no way to keep the machine still while you make sure it's not going to go 40 inches into the table, for example
[02:54:47] <toastyde1th> other than trying to hit feed hold before it moves
[02:55:57] <dareposte> i use the e-stop :D
[02:56:07] <dareposte> after it's made it a few inches into the table already
[02:56:22] <dareposte> not recommended though
[02:56:44] <toastyde1th> yeah, i'm pretty good about not crashing machines and would like to keep it that way
[03:05:55] <dareposte> fortunately my machines are all stepper and wimpy
[03:06:05] <dareposte> so crashing them rarely even breaks a tool
[03:06:10] <dareposte> lucky thing for me
[03:06:13] <dareposte> good to learn on
[03:07:49] <toastyde1th> yeah, true
[03:08:02] <toastyde1th> the cnc'ed bridgeports are that way
[03:08:35] <toastyde1th> but the real machining and turning centers tend to mangle things really nicely before they come to an abrupt halt
[03:14:21] <KimK> toastyde1th: Re: Haas controls are... Re: there's no way to keep... Q: Don't Haas controls have a feedrate override and/or rapid override pot/switch/knob ?
[03:14:45] <toastyde1th> kimk: no
[03:14:59] <KimK> toastyde1th: Yikes
[03:15:04] <toastyde1th> yep
[03:15:23] <toastyde1th> your options are rapid 5%, 25%, 50%, 100% (no 0% or rapid to feed position)
[03:15:36] <toastyde1th> spindle +10%, -10%, 100%
[03:15:45] <toastyde1th> feed +10, -10, 100%
[03:16:00] <toastyde1th> and the buttons are not easy to press for whatever reason
[03:16:13] <toastyde1th> they're stiff membrane dealies
[03:16:38] <jmkasunich> hmm, this is gonna take a while...
[03:16:55] <jmkasunich> boring a stepped hole, 1" dia x 1" deep, then 3/4" dia x 2.25" deep
[03:17:13] <toastyde1th> no boring bar?
[03:17:15] <jmkasunich> and I can only spin the work at 150 RPM because it is very off-center
[03:17:20] <toastyde1th> oh.
[03:17:31] <toastyde1th> owned, dood
[03:17:48] <jmkasunich> x 4
[03:18:05] <KimK> toastyde1th: Well, I guess 5-10% is better than nothing (everything?) Thanks for the tip on Haas, I'll pass it on to a friend who has mentioned Haas. Thanks!
[03:18:19] <toastyde1th> my opinion re: haas is very, very poor.
[03:18:20] <jmkasunich> toastyde1th: it could be worse
[03:18:31] <jmkasunich> I've made about 10 of these things over the last 6-8 years
[03:18:39] <jmkasunich> they were all manual - turning the cranks
[03:18:40] <toastyde1th> what ARE you making
[03:18:58] <jmkasunich> its a jig used in labs, to test "crack isolation membranes"
[03:19:18] <toastyde1th> like coatings for glass?
[03:19:21] <jmkasunich> the membranes go over concrete floors and under ceramic tiles, to keep floor movement from cracking the tiles
[03:19:27] <toastyde1th> oh, cool.
[03:19:41] <jmkasunich> I helped design the "ansi standard CIM jig"
[03:20:03] <jmkasunich> there are only about 10 labs in the world that care, but I've made jigs for pretty much all of them
[03:20:09] <jmkasunich> paid for most of my shop that way
[03:20:09] <toastyde1th> hahah, that is awesome
[03:23:59] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75097
[03:32:03] <jmkasunich> unbalanced: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/cim-boring-guide-rod-holes-2793.jpg
[03:32:20] <toastyde1th> ahahaha holy crap
[03:32:36] <toastyde1th> you have gonads, my friend
[03:33:34] <jmkasunich> clamped very tight
[03:33:47] <jmkasunich> and I stood off to the side when I started it the first time
[03:36:43] <jmkasunich> its aluminum, not steel, so the off-center weight isn't too terrible
[03:43:34] <fenn> jmk might be worth it to clamp the jig to some blocks on the bed (your monstrous "steady" for example) and then use a boring bar supported on centers
[03:43:52] <fenn> s/jig/part/
[03:44:02] <jmkasunich> boring head style?
[03:44:07] <fenn> like a jig borer
[03:44:18] <jmkasunich> it's murder trying to hit a diameter with a boring head
[03:44:37] <jmkasunich> the "piece" is actually 4 pieces stacked
[03:44:55] <fenn> um, line boring i mean
[03:45:03] <jmkasunich> the first 2 are 1/2", they get bored to 1" - a tiny bit and get bronze bushings
[03:45:19] <jmkasunich> the other two are 1/2" and 3/4", and are bored to 3/4"
[03:45:28] <jmkasunich> then 3/4" rods go thru all to make a slide
[03:45:47] <fenn> http://www.drilltex.com/retro/Line%20Boring%20Process.jpg
[03:45:58] <jmkasunich> so the 1" hole needs to be a press fit on the bushings, and the 3/4" hole needs to be a very nice slip fit on the rods
[03:46:20] <jmkasunich> yeah, that is a between centers boring bar I think
[03:46:22] <fenn> i guess that picture doesn't make much sense either
[03:46:30] <jmkasunich> only problem - doing a 3/4" hole
[03:46:47] <jmkasunich> and you can only adjust by stopping and moving the tool in the bar
[03:46:55] <fenn> yes
[03:47:14] <fenn> you can use a screw to adjust the depth
[03:47:47] <jmkasunich> I want to make such a boring bar one of these days
[03:47:55] <jmkasunich> but it would take more time to do that than it will to make these parts
[03:48:26] <jmkasunich> first one just got done with the rough boring - now I get to try to hit the right size
[03:57:50] <dareposte> good luck
[04:21:55] <dareposte> anybody use a tool setter for their lathe?
[04:22:04] <toastyde1th> i have
[04:22:09] <dareposte> how do they work??
[04:22:23] <toastyde1th> are you asking for a qualitative response, or an instructive response
[04:22:24] <dareposte> sounds like a good idea, but don't you have to set to the tool radius
[04:22:30] <dareposte> qualitative
[04:22:38] <dareposte> like a "for dummies"
[04:22:38] <toastyde1th> you have to know the tool radius provided you even care about it
[04:22:51] <toastyde1th> they work pretty good until you crash the machine
[04:22:56] <toastyde1th> then things may shift a little bit
[04:23:07] <dareposte> are they stationary bolted on the frame?
[04:23:13] <dareposte> or is it something you chuck in the spindle
[04:23:16] <toastyde1th> they're usually on an arm
[04:23:19] <toastyde1th> that drops down
[04:23:26] <toastyde1th> mounted to the headstock
[04:23:37] <dareposte> just a touch probe then
[04:23:42] <toastyde1th> yep
[04:23:49] <dareposte> sort of like a home switch for the tool?
[04:23:58] <toastyde1th> kind of, except it's multidirectional
[04:24:07] <dareposte> like a reischleg
[04:24:11] <dareposte> or however you spell it
[04:24:13] <toastyde1th> like a what
[04:24:16] <dareposte> renishaw
[04:24:30] <toastyde1th> yes, like a renishaw probe with a square head instead of a sphere.
[04:24:41] <dareposte> i see
[04:24:49] <dareposte> so you can set z and x using the same tool setter
[04:24:51] <toastyde1th> i don't use them, personally
[04:25:14] <toastyde1th> i was not impressed enough with the results to rely on them
[04:25:22] <dareposte> it seems like you would still have to check the work dimensions and adjust anyway
[04:25:26] <toastyde1th> you do
[04:25:30] <dareposte> maybe good for loading up a tool magazine though
[04:25:50] <toastyde1th> if yours is in good working order, yeah
[04:26:05] <dareposte> mine doesn't exist yet
[04:26:07] <dareposte> :(
[04:26:17] <dareposte> i did find a machine i might go buy in ohio
[04:26:26] <dareposte> it has an 8 position tool turret
[04:26:34] <toastyde1th> cool
[04:26:41] <dareposte> also don't know anything about the brand
[04:26:45] <toastyde1th> name?
[04:26:46] <dareposte> muratec?
[04:26:50] <dareposte> ms6
[04:26:59] <toastyde1th> that's probably a generic tool builder.
[04:27:01] <dareposte> some old production turning center, 1995 vintage
[04:27:24] <dareposte> its a chucker type lathe whatever that means
[04:27:28] <dareposte> i take it to mean small parts
[04:27:30] <toastyde1th> no tailstock
[04:27:51] <dareposte> maybe 12" length max, 14" swing
[04:27:52] <toastyde1th> and possibly a turret design that interferes with part length
[04:28:01] <dareposte> yeah probably
[04:28:09] <toastyde1th> but that is uncommon
[04:28:09] <dareposte> it looks like it has a hydraulic ram instead of a bed
[04:28:14] <toastyde1th> lol what
[04:28:18] <toastyde1th> link to pictures
[04:28:18] <dareposte> its weird
[04:28:23] <dareposte> i just got them emailed to me
[04:28:26] <toastyde1th> oh
[04:28:30] <toastyde1th> oh well
[04:28:32] <dareposte> hang on i will see if i can post one
[04:28:46] <toastyde1th> bayimg.org
[04:29:13] <dareposte> i'll throw it on my website
[04:29:18] <toastyde1th> k
[04:29:27] <dareposte> the support structure that holds the tool turret is just a big cylinder
[04:29:30] <dmess> muratec are good machunes
[04:29:37] <dareposte> sort of sticks out of the head stock
[04:30:41] <dmess> is it a cylindrical way???
[04:31:13] <dareposte> www.nerdulator.net/100_1235.JPG
[04:31:42] <dareposte> the operator stands facing the chuck
[04:31:52] <dareposte> actually i guess the cnc gantry loader does that
[04:32:05] <dareposte> but if you were to stand, you would stand facing the chuck
[04:32:37] <dareposte> dmess: i'm not sure but the way does look like a giant cylinder sticking out
[04:32:39] <dareposte> see the pic
[04:32:46] <dareposte> not the best view, but it does show it
[04:33:08] <toastyde1th> does it have an X axis
[04:33:20] <dmess> its a cylindrical way/ tubular machine
[04:33:47] <dareposte> what does that mean
[04:34:02] <dmess> sure but it rides off the tube correct??
[04:34:13] <dareposte> hm not sure
[04:34:18] <dareposte> all i have is the pictures
[04:34:27] <dareposte> i was hoping when i go to see it the function will be apparent
[04:34:43] <dmess> what control??
[04:35:01] <dareposte> fanuc
[04:35:10] <dmess> model?
[04:35:41] <dareposte> checking
[04:36:03] <dareposte> fanuc 18-T
[04:36:23] <dareposte> doesn't mean anything to me unfortunately
[04:36:26] <dmess> good work horse
[04:36:28] <dareposte> max turning length 130mm
[04:36:40] <dareposte> apparently used to make automotive parts at some point in its past
[04:37:19] <dareposte> weighs 4500 lbs
[04:37:30] <dareposte> amazing for something that turns only 130mm isn't it?
[04:37:35] <dmess> they were ususally pupose built so yo have to be carefull when purchasing
[04:37:55] <dareposte> i called muratec and asked them for the manual, and they said they would send it
[04:38:15] <dareposte> they said it was an older model they had and they don't service them any more
[04:38:20] <dareposte> but it didn't sound like a custom build
[04:38:21] <dmess> weight soungds nice to me
[04:38:31] <dmess> SOLID
[04:38:35] <toastyde1th> srsly.
[04:38:48] <dareposte> it appears to have a japanese plc in there
[04:39:13] <toastyde1th> that's the actual motion controller and spindle drives, most likely
[04:39:17] <toastyde1th> they ARE plcs
[04:39:30] <dareposte> yeah
[04:39:34] <dmess> i would have expected german?
[04:39:40] <dareposte> the pics are too low resolution to get any name or serial
[04:39:48] <dareposte> maybe german
[04:39:50] <dareposte> not american
[04:39:58] <toastyde1th> dmess: what's the major differences between the 0T, 6T, 18T, 21Ti, etc
[04:40:11] <dmess> siemens or heidenhein
[04:40:16] <toastyde1th> sry, fanuc
[04:40:33] <dmess> TOAST.... LOTS
[04:40:55] <toastyde1th> right but we have dinky old controls where i work and only one 18M on a machine i don't use
[04:41:04] <dmess> there are 20 yrs between all those
[04:41:15] <toastyde1th> right, but like, do you have some quick examples of features
[04:41:53] <dmess> some lathes DO valleys...
[04:41:54] <toastyde1th> like "the 0T can barely pick its nose, the 18T has the voice of a woman laughing at you when you crash"
[04:42:49] <dareposte> hm maybe i should pass then, i get that enough already
[04:42:59] <dmess> the 6t is WYSISWYG as are most 18's
[04:43:03] <dareposte> http://www.nerdulator.net/muratec/ <--- all the pics I have
[04:43:37] <toastyde1th> nice pics, good to see it does have an x axis
[04:44:13] <dareposte> which one did you see that in?
[04:44:22] <toastyde1th> http://www.nerdulator.net/muratec/100_1232.JPG
[04:44:29] <dareposte> it wouldn't be much without an x axis would it
[04:44:47] <toastyde1th> there are lathes that have no x axis, only Z
[04:45:00] <toastyde1th> the tools are set to a specific diameter and never change.
[04:45:04] <dareposte> oh
[04:45:10] <toastyde1th> they're very rare nowdays with CNC
[04:45:23] <dmess> no there arent they are called drills
[04:45:27] <toastyde1th> also on the control, http://www.nerdulator.net/muratec/100_1234.JPG
[04:45:45] <dareposte> that controller scares me a little
[04:45:50] <toastyde1th> there's an x/z/c knob
[04:45:52] <dareposte> i didn't look at the picture very long
[04:46:01] <dareposte> what's the c for?
[04:46:03] <dareposte> tool change?
[04:46:13] <toastyde1th> nah don't get freaked out, you'll very quickly come to love the layout
[04:46:23] <toastyde1th> c, if it exists on the machine, is the spindle orientation
[04:46:33] <dmess> control is cool... machine is odd if you arent from a PRODUCTION world...
[04:46:44] <toastyde1th> turns the head into a rotary table if you have live tools, et cetera
[04:46:53] <dmess> it has a turret..
[04:46:54] <dareposte> so in that first picture, is the x-axis the black plate there?
[04:47:10] <toastyde1th> yeah, that's the cover.
[04:47:10] <dareposte> there was a live tooling option for it, but this one doesn't have it
[04:47:31] <toastyde1th> shame
[04:47:44] <toastyde1th> i wish we had at least one live tool lathe
[04:48:00] <toastyde1th> management doesn't believe it's worth it, they haven't bought a new machine in uh, nearing ten years
[04:48:05] <dareposte> i think its just a retrofit
[04:48:09] <dmess> but you would need the Y axis trust me
[04:48:42] <toastyde1th> y axis would be nice, then we could barfeed and mill some of our smaller parts
[04:48:59] <dareposte> the guy said this one came with a part of a gantry loader?
[04:49:01] <dmess> yup.. ive done that
[04:49:18] <toastyde1th> which part of the gantry loader?
[04:49:21] <dmess> apart of??? WTF
[04:49:26] <toastyde1th> usually you need the whole loader to be useful.
[04:49:30] <dareposte> i'm not sure
[04:49:50] <dareposte> i dont' think he really knew either
[04:50:08] <dareposte> i was hoping that the big empty area over the spindle would have a pick and load type thing up there
[04:50:09] <dmess> if the interface is there that could be cool though
[04:50:35] <dareposte> its too tall for where the chuck and headstock is
[04:50:38] <dareposte> and i'm not sure why
[04:50:50] <dareposte> the chuck appears to be at waist level
[04:50:54] <dmess> does it have a sliding door over the top??? i cant tell
[04:51:12] <dareposte> yeah it looks like it might have one
[04:51:36] <dareposte> i'm assuming the controller screen is at eye level for a normal sized person
[04:51:36] <dmess> may have been part of a cell
[04:51:42] <dareposte> yeah it probably was
[04:51:52] <dareposte> almost certainly part of a production cell
[04:52:05] <dareposte> it has TR2-CUT painted on it
[04:52:15] <dareposte> so i'm guessing it's the 2nd station in a cutting line
[04:52:18] <dmess> not usually.. without some platforms.. some are still made for giants
[04:52:33] <dareposte> oh dang
[04:52:46] <dareposte> i really really really need to fit it in my residential garage
[04:53:25] <dmess> been there.. done that... ( basement in my case)
[04:54:00] <dareposte> basement??
[04:54:08] <dareposte> i hope it was drive-up
[04:54:12] <dareposte> with fork truck access
[04:54:17] <toastyde1th> step one: cut hole in roof, and all floors in between
[04:54:24] <toastyde1th> step two: rent crane
[04:54:29] <toastyde1th> step three: simply drop in place and bam, you're done!
[04:54:45] <dmess> dont know who's helping to get it out but my 2 son's have helped haul it down so they dont wanna help haul it up
[04:54:59] <dareposte> in pieces i guess?
[04:55:31] <dmess> it was only an 800 lbs hardinge
[04:55:56] <toastyde1th> hahah
[04:56:12] <toastyde1th> little different than lugging a whole turning center into the basement
[04:56:17] <dmess> made the 2 boys work for a few hrs
[04:56:26] <dareposte> oh
[04:56:53] <dmess> you ever seen a hardinge lathe??
[04:57:27] <dmess> built like a little BRICK shithouse.. and then some
[04:57:47] <dareposte> nope just pictures
[04:58:57] <dareposte> http://www.nerdulator.net/muratec/100_1236.JPG is that a chip conveyor??
[04:59:21] <dmess> yes
[04:59:26] <dareposte> rad
[04:59:40] <dmess> huuuh
[05:00:57] <dareposte> i wonder if this thing would hold tolerance still
[05:01:09] <dareposte> it looks like one of the machines out in our powertrain building
[05:01:19] <dareposte> and they ride those things hard
[05:01:36] <dareposte> in fact the more i look at it, the more i'm going to have to go look and see if there's a big gaping hole where it came grom
[05:01:37] <dareposte> from
[05:02:14] <dareposte> it has the model code of a car we just discontinued from our lines... i scrapped out a bunch of weld equipment a few months ago
[05:02:24] <dareposte> wonder if they did the same
[05:02:46] <dareposte> or it could be coincidence
[05:04:02] <dareposte> and there are absolutely japanese letters on the safety labels
[05:04:07] <dareposte> http://www.nerdulator.net/muratec/100_1235.JPG
[05:04:39] <dareposte> right by the picture of the little stick figure getting stabbed by something
[05:07:17] <dmess> you peenut your going to buy your own crap... LOL ;)
[05:07:18] <dareposte> how much would a fanuc 18t cost to buy
[05:07:34] <dmess> big $$$
[05:07:42] <dareposte> more than $5k?
[05:08:51] <dareposte> i'm in an entirely different shop, but even the paint code matches our spec (or looks like it would without all the grime on it)
[05:09:17] <dareposte> if it was from my plant, then at least i know I could get a service manual :)
[05:09:28] <dareposte> maybe find someone who knows how to run it
[05:11:00] <dmess> parts on ebay would cover that easily.... but part it out and time
[05:11:00] <dmess> LOL
[05:11:01] <dmess> i got my hardinge from work.. but they had no idea what they had even though they had it 20 yrs already
[05:12:01] <dmess> yup... go for broke
[05:12:14] <dareposte> its got my name on it for $3800 if I like it at inspection
[05:12:43] <dareposte> i figured if nothing else i could get the servos and the fanuc controls off it
[05:13:14] <dareposte> now i'm worried it will be too big to fit in my garage though
[05:13:16] <dmess> for that $$ do it... i can help ya run it over the phone
[05:14:02] <dmess> as i can most fanuc's
[05:14:20] <dareposte> the top door definitely slides, you can see it here: http://www.nerdulator.net/muratec/100_1230.JPG
[05:14:30] <dareposte> thanks dmess
[05:15:22] <dmess> fit it in the hole and find some paying work...
[05:15:34] <dareposte> maybe i could strip all that wasted space above it off to make it fit
[05:15:46] <dareposte> that whole enclosure above must have been for the gantry loader
[05:16:01] <dareposte> or the portion of it that it has leftg
[05:16:04] <dmess> IS IT still there
[05:16:04] <dmess> ??
[05:16:18] <dareposte> not clear at this time
[05:16:33] <dareposte> if it is, it doesn't look like there is an axis controller for it
[05:16:46] <dareposte> just the two fanuc servo drives in the cabinet that I see
[05:16:51] <dmess> when are you inspecting this machine
[05:17:10] <dareposte> http://www.nerdulator.net/muratec/100_1237.JPG
[05:17:16] <dareposte> i'm inspecting it tuesday
[05:17:21] <dareposte> with a trailer
[05:17:41] <dareposte> that picture shows a lot of drives there
[05:17:54] <dareposte> some with multiple multiple encoder cables
[05:18:29] <dmess> some of the other drives could be seudo drives...
[05:18:37] <dareposte> what's that mean
[05:18:57] <dareposte> i figure a plc, a motion controller, maybe a couple servo drives
[05:18:58] <dareposte> ??
[05:19:04] <dareposte> servo amps i mean
[05:19:18] <dmess> plc drives etc
[05:19:49] <dareposte> sounds like i could probably break even parting it out anyway
[05:20:23] <dmess> we had 3 axis machines with 7axes as far as we were concerned
[05:20:48] <dmess> very easily..
[05:20:49] <dareposte> how do you mean
[05:21:27] <dmess> virtual axes... for lack of a better term
[05:21:47] <dareposte> what use does that have
[05:22:06] <dmess> PLC is a bit of a GOD
[05:22:59] <dmess> doors, t/c, part loader, they are all contollled axes
[05:23:19] <dareposte> oh so for interlocks?
[05:23:27] <dareposte> and part loading
[05:23:27] <dareposte> cool
[05:23:30] <dmess> more so
[05:23:43] <dareposte> all the stuff I work with at work has 9 axes
[05:23:50] <dareposte> but no machining, only welding
[05:23:57] <dareposte> "precision" is 0.3mm
[05:24:19] <dareposte> the plc is also a god there
[05:24:22] <dmess> dream it.. the siemens 840d will let me monitor and control it
[05:24:33] <dareposte> i wish we got to have siemens
[05:24:55] <dmess> what you work with
[05:27:27] <dareposte> robotic welders
[05:27:47] <dareposte> typically 6 joint axes, two weld axes, and often a traversing base
[05:28:13] <dareposte> teach-repeat type stuff though, not much to think about
[05:28:17] <dmess> ABB??
[05:28:29] <dareposte> abb?
[05:28:41] <dmess> controller??
[05:28:48] <dareposte> no
[05:28:58] <dareposte> toyopuc mostly
[05:29:14] <dareposte> occasionally a yokogawa or ab
[05:30:21] <dmess> i hated the welding robot.... but i love to weld
[05:31:31] <dareposte> mig?
[05:31:33] <dareposte> tig?
[05:32:51] <dareposte> dang even the tower light on this thing looks like our spec, and the maintenance guys stripped it of bulbs too just like ours would have
[05:33:14] <dmess> personally.... stick..mig.. tig.. in that order of preferance and competancy
[05:34:12] <dareposte> stick is my favorite too
[05:34:20] <dareposte> except i don't like cleaning off the slag
[05:35:18] <dmess> a litle time for perfection... i won't comprimise
[05:36:11] <dareposte> not much is stick welded these days
[05:36:28] <dmess> MIG when setup properly... runs sweet too
[05:37:00] <dmess> All our fittin is still stick
[05:37:10] <dareposte> we have robot mig welders that put out barrels a day
[05:38:17] <dareposte> no robot stick welders though
[05:38:22] <dareposte> too hard to program
[05:38:28] <dmess> i had manual mig welders that put out TONS of wire a day on 1 job
[05:39:17] <dmess> feeding 0.125"
[05:39:51] <dareposte> impressive
[05:40:01] <dareposte> ship building??
[05:40:11] <dmess> steel mill
[05:40:19] <dareposte> ahh
[05:40:31] <dmess> was awesome
[05:40:41] <dareposte> sounds like it
[05:42:01] <dmess> laddles... rollers...runout tables.. the whole deal.. machine and assemble
[05:42:14] <dareposte> i need a good welder... i have always had a really cheap one
[05:42:43] <dareposte> what were you assembling?
[05:42:56] <dareposte> i thought mills just rolled and supplied, maybe DOM and welded tubing?
[05:44:28] <dareposte> obviuosly i've never been to one though
[05:44:29] <dmess> iron IN formed 36" x 18" I-beam out
[05:46:53] <dareposte> with a laser to cut it to length as it rolls out?
[05:47:02] <dareposte> always wondered how they do that
[05:49:10] <dareposte> man i thought I could just bring a trailer with me, but its hard to find a trailer that is rated for that much weight
[05:59:30] <dareposte> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=21-359-013
[06:02:40] <dmess> call riggers that know HOW to do it...
[06:02:54] <dmess> or my 2 sons
[06:03:35] <toastyde1th> oh, you're a good person to ask this dmess
[06:04:09] <toastyde1th> how much money would it take to have riggers transport a 12k-15k lb machine
[06:04:37] <dmess> how far??? under water??
[06:04:55] <toastyde1th> over a road, say 500 miles
[06:05:39] <dareposte> union or non union
[06:05:46] <toastyde1th> uh, i have no idea
[06:05:51] <toastyde1th> if i called a rigger up and ask for a quote
[06:06:01] <toastyde1th> what do you think a reasonable range of numbers would be
[06:06:09] <dmess> it may cost you about 1000-1500 if you work it right,,, im NON union
[06:06:24] <toastyde1th> that's not too bad
[06:06:32] <dareposte> i think you would be lucky to get it for 1000, but work is slow for them right now
[06:06:47] <dmess> not to avoid alot of aggravation
[06:07:15] <toastyde1th> i'd pay 1500-2000 without too much problem considering how much the machines cost
[06:07:38] <dmess> back hauling.... is what your looking for... going home empty
[06:07:42] <toastyde1th> i'd rather not have someone turn a turning center into a vertical boring mill as they unload it
[06:07:54] <dareposte> riggers usually know better than that
[06:08:03] <toastyde1th> usually.
[06:08:05] <dareposte> they've seen enough heavy stuff in their day
[06:08:16] <dareposte> although if you get a rigger who usually moves trailer homes or something
[06:08:18] <dareposte> ...
[06:08:52] <toastyde1th> no, i'd contact someone who has moved machines before and wouldn't damage it.
[06:09:03] <dmess> not been a problem to me in the past
[06:10:36] <toastyde1th> i was just expecting like, 5000-7000 to move a machine i might buy for 10k
[06:10:41] <toastyde1th> so the lower number is nice.
[06:10:49] <toastyde1th> a hypothetical machine, that is.
[06:12:02] <dmess> 3000 installed and powered up is a good guestimatte
[06:12:02] <dareposte> i can ask one tomorrow for you if you want a number
[06:12:32] <toastyde1th> nope, i've just never seen the costs for rigging
[06:12:43] <toastyde1th> i don't have any machine to move, nor will i in the near future (but thanks)
[06:13:21] <dmess> its all part of the deal.. you take on.. when you say GO
[06:54:21] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[15:26:36] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[15:36:28] <dpy> hey guys
[15:38:42] <dpy> which ball bearings would be better for a desktop size cnc router (400x600mm): 5x10x5 or 8x22x7 ?
[15:39:08] <dpy> I can wholesale packs of 100 of those for a good price
[15:39:39] <dareposte> what size screws u using?
[15:40:46] <fenn> 8x22x7
[15:40:56] <fenn> that's a 608ZZ right?
[15:41:21] <dpy> yes
[15:43:00] <dpy> dareposte: first version will be with threaded rod, probably 5mm
[15:43:15] <dpy> dareposte: was this what you asked for?
[15:43:22] <dareposte> yeah
[15:43:59] <dareposte> i agree with fenn, the bigger bearings are usually better. But for 5mm rod an 8mm id bearing would be a bit inconvenient
[15:44:33] <dareposte> are you in the us?
[15:44:39] <dpy> I also want to use the same bearings for the Linear motion of the axes
[15:45:08] <dpy> like this: http://www.probotix.com/solsylva/build1/pages/pbx_32-021.htm
[15:45:17] <dpy> dareposte: nope, europe
[15:45:20] <dareposte> oh
[15:45:32] <dpy> dareposte: but I intend to order most everything from the US
[15:45:39] <dareposte> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=890-9839&PMPXNO=5283713&PARTPG=INLMK32
[15:45:53] <dpy> US is a cheap place to buy, even if you account for postage
[15:46:04] <dareposte> i'd recommend an acme rod like that over allthread, as cheap as they are
[15:46:26] <dareposte> in that case use the 608 bearings
[15:46:46] <dpy> whenever I read acme, I keep thinking: roger rabbit.. must be me :D
[15:46:53] <dareposte> you'll get over it
[15:46:55] <dareposte> :)
[15:46:59] <dpy> * dpy checking it out
[15:47:01] <dareposte> i thought of wiley coyote forever
[15:47:35] <dareposte> the strength and efficiency of a trapezoidal thread profile are somewhat better, but I think the accuracy is similar
[15:47:45] <dareposte> as compared to a piece of threaded rod
[15:48:03] <dpy> that isn't metric :(
[15:48:43] <dpy> I don't know if I can make that thread in nuts I want to make from delrin
[15:48:44] <dareposte> is that a big deal?
[15:48:48] <dareposte> oh
[15:49:03] <dpy> I have a metric threading set
[15:49:20] <dareposte> to thread delrin, just cut about 3" off the end of that rod and grind some grooves in it, then harden it
[15:49:30] <dareposte> use it as a tap to cut its own threads
[15:49:47] <dareposte> i guess for delrin you wouldn't even need to do that though
[15:49:57] <dareposte> you could just use it in an unhardened state
[15:50:17] <dpy> delrin is quite tough
[15:50:24] <dpy> but I could try that
[15:50:56] <dareposte> or dumpstercnc makes some anti-backlash delrin nuts that are allegedly pretty good
[15:51:55] <dareposte> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/
[15:52:06] <dareposte> costs a bit more though, $15/piece if I remember
[15:52:13] <dareposte> but they are delrin, anti-backlash, and have a nice mounting flange
[15:52:32] <dareposte> ideal for a small desktop type router
[15:52:52] <dareposte> but we're getting a bit off topic, sorry to divert you
[15:52:58] <dareposte> i'd say go with the 608 bearings
[15:53:17] <dareposte> make a sleeve for your 5mm threaded rod to bring it up to 8mm OD, to fit the 608's
[15:54:13] <dpy> hmm k
[15:54:28] <dpy> also, that acme rod is 6ft right?
[15:54:54] <dpy> that is what? 1.8m ?
[15:55:14] <dpy> I don't see how this is going to be sent to europe, if at all.. or the costs are going to be huge
[15:57:40] <dareposte> its not so bad, but i live in the states
[15:57:47] <dareposte> they just put it in a carboard tube and ship it
[15:58:05] <dareposte> costs about the same here as a regular package
[15:58:06] <dpy> "Smaller parcels will ship via UPS air freight [...]" grrr, UPS, that's one expensive company
[15:58:22] <dareposte> call them up, they'll ship it however you want
[15:58:46] <dpy> k, maybe I will.. I could go with the threaded rod first...
[15:58:51] <dpy> USPS is the best
[15:59:00] <dareposte> for overseas?
[15:59:04] <dpy> yes
[15:59:15] <dpy> for small parcels it is way cheaper
[15:59:18] <dareposte> usps here usually costs more, takes longer, and won't let you track it
[15:59:27] <dpy> and delivery within a week to the netherlands
[15:59:33] <dareposte> the only reason I use them for packages at all is the occasional flat-rate box
[16:00:19] <dpy> well, UPS and FedEx start at 25-30 USD for any parcel overseas
[16:00:29] <dpy> USPS starts at what? 6 or 7 USD
[16:00:59] <dareposte> that's nice
[16:01:30] <dareposte> sounds like you get better rates than I do with usps :)
[16:02:02] <dareposte> UPS rates have gone up for domestic, now it usually costs $13-$15 per parcel to ship something of a normal size
[16:02:06] <dareposte> gtg
[16:02:10] <dareposte> good luck with your build
[16:03:43] <fenn> also 608 bearings are more common and used in a lot of DIY projects
[16:07:05] <fenn> you can't make anti-backlash nuts with a tap you cut from threaded acme rod
[16:07:41] <fenn> just get local M8 rod
[16:15:59] <dpy> tnx for the tip
[16:18:50] <fenn> learned that one the hard way
[16:38:41] <tomp> theres some awfully interesting stuff recently in the emc-devel mail list, about embedded emc controllers.
[16:40:47] <SWPadnos> sort of
[16:41:18] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, the "interesting" stuff all seems to be about making a faster step generator
[16:42:19] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: and not even that much faster :/
[16:42:21] <tomp> today i got 5 axis tuned and running sweet. the yaskawas have thier gains max'ed out. sounds like r3d2 :) when running 5 axis helix ( XYZWC), C is moving normal to circle, Z is Vert of Helix, and for the hell of it W is programmed opposed to Z making it back into 2D flat circle (he he he)
[16:42:30] <alex_joni> the last messages were about 50kHz? wtf?
[16:42:31] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, I noticed that
[16:42:34] <SWPadnos> yeah
[16:42:53] <SWPadnos> which you can easily do with a <$100 Goal3 board, or the Atom jmk used on his robot
[16:47:07] <tomp> what linux tool chain can be use to reduce big (164meg) mp4's?
[16:47:08] <tomp> I need to send vid reports over internet an servers are telling me to go away, too big.
[16:47:22] <SWPadnos> divx?
[16:47:55] <tomp> yeh but what tools, mencoder didnt reduce the size but 20%
[16:48:18] <tomp> sorry, divx is a codec yes?
[16:51:00] <SWPadnos> I think divx is a program and a codec
[16:51:33] <tomp> thx SWPanos, will look
[16:51:51] <tomp> SWPadnos: sorry
[18:30:12] <JymmmEMC> Well, technically DIVX is a tool
[18:30:20] <JymmmEMC> but lets not dgo there
[18:30:22] <JymmmEMC> go
[18:31:13] <JymmmEMC> hey SWPadnos
[18:31:18] <SWPadnos> hi
[18:31:23] <SWPadnos> brb
[18:31:25] <JymmmEMC> k
[18:34:06] <alex_joni> ffmpeg then?
[18:34:25] <JymmmEMC> he left
[18:35:10] <JymmmEMC> He should just use handbrake, it's the simplest... http://handbrake.fr/?article=download
[18:35:34] <JymmmEMC> Mind you, transcoding is time consuming.
[18:36:07] <JymmmEMC> Movie DVD to 700MB AVI (XVID+MP3) takes about 4 hours.
[18:36:28] <JymmmEMC> H.264 will take longer
[18:37:08] <alex_joni> depends on the BogoMIPS, but yeah ;)
[18:37:32] <JymmmEMC> Not really all that much.
[18:40:21] <cradek> dareposte: I see your video. looks like you are getting good threads now. I'm glad you found the problem.
[19:01:47] <Optic> we're hopefully going to run our steppers with emc2 today
[19:01:51] <Optic> on the engraver
[19:57:25] <Optic> so when you're setting up a coordinate system for emc2 and a machine, where does one usually put the origin?
[19:57:41] <Optic> i notice when i open most of the example files, the are centered on 0,0,0
[19:58:08] <Optic> so if I have a 24" x, do I go MIN_LIMIT=-16, MAX_LIMIT=16?
[19:58:13] <Optic> er
[19:58:27] <Optic> 12
[19:58:36] <cradek> on a mill, wherever you want is ok. on a lathe X0 has to put your reference tool at the spindle centerline
[19:59:19] <Optic> this is a laser engraver, so it's more like a plotter
[20:07:58] <Optic> what's the normal place for the origin on a mill?
[20:09:31] <SWPadnos> there is no standard
[20:09:52] <SWPadnos> it's probably most common to make it either the center of movement or the lower left corner
[20:10:19] <eric_unterhausen> interesting choice of words
[20:10:32] <SWPadnos> which ones? :)
[20:10:39] <eric_unterhausen> lower left corner
[20:10:56] <eric_unterhausen> after I leveled my mill, there were no low corners
[20:11:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:14:54] <Optic> hehe
[20:15:50] <Optic> this thing has "home" sensors for the upper right corner
[20:16:20] <SWPadnos> it makes no difference where the home switches are, you can define that point as something other than 0
[20:17:03] <Optic> yep, i was just looking at the ini
[20:18:17] <Optic> emc2 seems awfully cool
[20:18:31] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:29:39] <Optic> i'm using one of those intel atom mini-itx boards for this project
[20:29:47] <Optic> and the emc2 livecd
[20:29:57] <Optic> overall it has been seamless so far
[20:30:49] <Optic> i'm going to have to make a custom hal module to control the laser on/off
[20:35:09] <alex_joni> Optic: in 2.3.0 you'll have better support for laser on/off using motion synched M-codes
[20:35:22] <alex_joni> M62..65 iirc the names :)
[20:35:35] <alex_joni> but it's still a couple weeks away
[20:36:56] <Optic> that's great
[20:37:15] <Optic> alex: I was going to make it turn the laser on if z < 0 and off if z >= 0
[20:37:19] <Optic> which should give realtime control
[20:37:43] <alex_joni> Optic: M3/M5 should give realtime control too
[20:37:56] <alex_joni> just use motion.spindle-on as the laser on
[20:39:10] <skunkworks_> the problem with that - if I understand it right - is motion stops when m3/m5 is called.
[20:39:20] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: yup
[20:39:31] <alex_joni> it depends how often Optic needs to turn laser on/off
[20:39:41] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: yes
[20:40:03] <skunkworks_> profile cutting is probably ok - but engraving is not.
[20:40:31] <Optic> i'm doing engraving, possibly in a raster mode
[20:40:43] <alex_joni> for raster either use the Z-axis hack
[20:40:55] <alex_joni> or wait for M64/65 in 2.3.0
[20:41:26] <SWPadnos> the Z-axis hack doesn't require any new HAL components, just use a comparator
[20:41:37] <Optic> nice
[20:42:02] <Optic> i'm still trying to get my head around the HAL
[20:42:30] <gene> hey guys!
[20:42:38] <SWPadnos> hey Gene
[20:42:39] <alex_joni> hi gene
[20:42:48] <gene> Hi steve, alex
[20:43:29] <gene> I just had to put another video card in this thing, fan died and nviddia did what they do best lately, toes up.
[20:43:45] <SWPadnos> did you get a fanless replacement?
[20:44:14] <gene> vesa driver seems to drive it just fiine.
[20:44:53] <gene> No fan on this multiyear old relic!
[20:44:58] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:45:46] <gene> but, how ddo I check if I'm using the right parport, everythng looks good, but the only place the machine moves is on screen.
[20:46:13] <SWPadnos> err. lspci, then try the different addresses until things work?
[20:46:17] <gene> what file contaains that port address assignment?
[20:46:33] <SWPadnos> by default, you don't need to specify a port
[20:46:57] <SWPadnos> if you don't, then hal_parport looks at 378, 278, and 3bc I believe
[20:47:26] <SWPadnos> it would be in the ini file - add a config parameter to the loadrt line
[20:47:29] <SWPadnos> ugh
[20:47:31] <SWPadnos> hal file, not ini
[20:47:33] <alex_joni> hal file
[20:47:47] <gene> Maybe so, but these new ports, which I haven't tested yet, show uo at addresses starting at 0c99 & go on up, 6 addresses total.
[20:47:59] <gene> s/b 0c00
[20:48:03] <SWPadnos> phew
[20:48:06] <SWPadnos> I was going to say
[20:48:27] <gene> typu's...
[20:48:28] <SWPadnos> you can use any address though, so don't worry about it
[20:48:44] <gene> emc hunts and finds it or ??
[20:48:58] <SWPadnos> no, you figure out which address is correct and use that
[20:49:11] <gene> and that is set in which file?
[20:49:14] <SWPadnos> lspci will tell you what ports are in the machine
[20:49:31] <SWPadnos> I wonder if you're meaning the question you're asking
[20:49:39] <SWPadnos> you set the address in the hal file
[20:49:59] <SWPadnos> if you want to find the correct address, you need to use other tools, such as lspci
[20:50:07] <Optic> parport output is looking good on the 'scope!
[20:50:33] <gene> In what file, do we set this port address?, yes, and lspci -vv says there 6 addresses for it.
[20:50:58] <SWPadnos> (does that make sense? :) )
[20:51:02] <gene> ok, thanks
[20:51:04] <alex_joni> gene: what configuration do you use?
[20:51:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:51:09] <gene> stepper
[20:51:18] <alex_joni> ok, then in the HAL file
[20:51:23] <gene> 4 axis xylotex
[20:51:33] <gene> brb
[20:51:35] <alex_joni> standard_pinout.hal maybe?
[20:51:43] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, I don't think the released stepgen lets you specify the port
[20:51:46] <alex_joni> not core_stepper.hal
[20:51:47] <SWPadnos> 2.3 will
[20:52:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: read my mind ;)
[20:52:07] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:52:14] <SWPadnos> gah
[20:52:15] <SWPadnos> stepconf
[20:52:27] <SWPadnos> read it right but wrote it wrong :)
[20:53:26] <alex_joni> ROFLMAO http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/fail-owned-dog-ride-fail.jpg
[20:54:14] <gene> chuckle, somehow it forgot the default config, when I looked in the one I was running, sim_oinout.hal stuck out like a sore thumb, duhhhh
[20:54:39] <alex_joni> weell.. sim_pinout means it probably is doing the right thing by not moving :P
[20:54:40] <gene> In other words, load the right config & it works.\
[20:54:47] <SWPadnos> yay! :)
[20:55:01] <gene> +100 Steve
[20:55:43] <gene> I gottra run, the weather is closingg in and gonna get wet and I have stuff to put away first.
[20:55:52] <SWPadnos> have fun
[20:56:02] <fenn> this is so embarrassing, gene has a CNC machine and I don't
[20:57:18] <SWPadnos> it's not truly embarrassing until I complete my retrofit(s), and you still don't have a machine
[20:57:33] <alex_joni> oh come on.. even I have one :P
[20:57:43] <fenn> you've been at it longer than i have
[20:57:58] <alex_joni> me or SWPadnos ?
[20:58:02] <fenn> alex
[20:58:12] <alex_joni> err.. not so sure ;)
[20:58:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:58:26] <alex_joni> but anyways, you'll build that oligopod one day :D
[20:58:30] <SWPadnos> tripod thingies don't count
[20:58:43] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I have a sherline sized machine :P
[20:58:53] <SWPadnos> oh, well in that case
[20:59:44] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog/projects/01157974398
[21:01:30] <fenn> does it have a spindle?
[21:01:39] <alex_joni> fenn: it does in the mean time
[21:01:46] <alex_joni> not sure if I have a pic online
[21:02:04] <alex_joni> but it's not strong enough for anything above palstic/soft alu
[21:02:13] <fenn> maybe with teeny tiny bits
[21:03:27] <alex_joni> fenn: http://dsplabs.upt.ro/~juve/emc/mycnc/10070328/PICT0002.JPG
[21:08:20] <JymmmEMC> Hey, I'm the one with the longest non functional machine, so fenn you have nothing to worry about.
[21:12:05] <skunkworks_> ummmm ;)
[21:13:16] <Optic> http://www.capybara.org/~andrew/temp/laser/
[21:13:21] <Optic> some pics of our progress :)
[21:15:47] <Optic> the space is hacklab toronto
[21:29:30] <fenn> Optic: i'm setting up a similar space and i'm curious where your funding comes from
[21:31:21] <alex_joni> Optic: cool
[21:31:24] <Optic> ideally all expenses will be covered by membership dues
[21:31:36] <Optic> right now it doesn't quite make up the rent, the founders of the space are paying the overage
[21:31:46] <fenn> btw you shouldnt eat laser etched food, supposedly it contains bad things (worse than just burned food)
[21:31:48] <Optic> we need about 10-15 more members at $50/mo to make it break even
[21:32:03] <Optic> we're not going to eat laser etched food. :)
[21:32:59] <fenn> how much is rent? is it just an apartment somewhere/
[21:33:17] <Optic> it's a commerical apartment above a bar
[21:33:26] <Optic> about $1200/mo I think
[21:33:36] <Optic> downtown toronto
[21:33:38] <fenn> who bought the laser?
[21:33:46] <Optic> it was bought off craigslist for $500
[21:33:48] <Optic> non-working
[21:33:55] <Optic> but the laser works and all the motors work
[21:34:15] <fenn> haha "I normally teach recursion by checking to see whether they understand recursion, and if not, teaching recursion"
[21:34:20] <Optic> the controller was missing, the previous owner sent it for repair and it "couldn't be fixed"
[21:34:44] <Optic> so he sold the rest of the machine for cheap
[21:34:47] <fenn> that's a pretty awesome score
[21:34:54] <JymmmEMC> oh, is THAT wahy you didn't just repair it - you didn't have it =)
[21:35:04] <Optic> apparently we can get it back if we do a lot of chasing
[21:35:23] <JymmmEMC> Optic: I'd try to get it back if I were you
[21:35:38] <Optic> yeah?
[21:35:47] <Optic> you don't think we'll be happy running it off emc2?
[21:35:50] <JymmmEMC> If nothing else for trying to replicate it
[21:36:24] <Optic> we've built power drivers and a controller for the motors, and we have a pwm controller for the laser working
[21:36:26] <JymmmEMC> Well, here's the thing... ULS does a good job. Their printer driver plus that board does a hell of a job.
[21:36:58] <Optic> we're not going to do anything that would prevent going back to the stock controller
[21:37:06] <JymmmEMC> There's the whole PPI and power control etc, if you can use it as a refernce to duplicate, you might have something really good there.
[21:37:50] <JymmmEMC> Does your machine have auto or manual focus?
[21:37:53] <Optic> well, I think there is a member working on getting the old controller back
[21:37:55] <Optic> it's manual focus
[21:38:08] <JymmmEMC> was there an option for auto focus?
[21:38:14] <Optic> not that i'm aware of
[21:38:19] <Optic> this is a 17 year old unit
[21:38:35] <JymmmEMC> Is Z manual ?
[21:38:49] <Optic> the z was controlled by buttons on the control panel
[21:39:11] <JymmmEMC> Ok, so you COULD actually incorporate auto-focus into it, that would be very cool.
[21:39:41] <JymmmEMC> Does this machine allow pass thru for long stock?
[21:39:54] <Optic> i guess we could... we just need something that can measure distance from the lens to the work?
[21:40:02] <Optic> no, there's no pass thru
[21:40:32] <JymmmEMC> Optic: Well, they have auto-focus on all their newer machines, maybe you could steal the idea of how they do it today
[21:41:00] <JymmmEMC> does it have air-assist?
[21:41:06] <Optic> no
[21:41:36] <Optic> the original controller didn't do raster either
[21:41:44] <JymmmEMC> Well, not needed for engraving as much for cutting. IIRC.
[21:41:44] <Optic> I think it was purely a plotter-mode thing
[21:42:17] <JymmmEMC> Eh, well, imnsho one shouldn't use a laser for primarily raster
[21:42:27] <Optic> no, but that's popular these days
[21:42:39] <Optic> all the youtube videos i've seen of Epilog units show it in a raster mode
[21:42:58] <Optic> it's like a glorified inkjet
[21:43:14] <JymmmEMC> Yeah and a 5x7 will take 60 minutes too
[21:43:58] <JymmmEMC> err make that 4x6
[21:44:05] <Optic> i think we'll be able to get some cool results with emc2
[21:44:21] <JymmmEMC> and that's with a 60W, not a 25W like you have.
[21:44:59] <JymmmEMC> Raster is cool and all, but SO much more can be done with vector but most don't know wth vector even is.
[21:44:59] <Optic> we had one member say "emc2 is a steaming pile, you should buy mach3"
[21:45:03] <Optic> but I don't believe him :)
[21:45:15] <JymmmEMC> heh
[21:46:08] <Optic> this is a good project to learn about machine control
[21:46:40] <alex_joni> Optic: maybe even a good way to learn about emc2
[21:46:53] <alex_joni> the "raster" done by emc2 could be improved
[21:46:56] <Optic> yes, i didn't even know about it last week
[21:47:05] <JymmmEMC> I spent about two years learning/wanting a laser, and jsut too po, so got into router as a cheaper alternate. I did a lot of homework
[21:48:15] <JymmmEMC> But I'd do about what you did too =)
[21:48:27] <Optic> there's a lot of infrastructure with this thing, which makes the hackerspace a cool place to do it
[21:48:33] <Optic> we have one guy who's been doing all the ventilation
[21:48:39] <Optic> and another guy soldering the control boards
[21:48:47] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:48:53] <Optic> goodnight
[23:34:06] <johnAsh> hello
[23:35:00] <judedude> hey this message is for Fenn and Eric
[23:35:31] <judedude> Well the installation of the new parport did not go well !
[23:35:42] <eric_unterhausen> wha happen?
[23:36:23] <eric_unterhausen> same problem?
[23:36:31] <judedude> I wan't able to install it. I used the recommensed instructions but it didn't work.
[23:36:53] <judedude> So now I have two parports that don't work.
[23:37:28] <eric_unterhausen> you mean you get no response from the parport at all?
[23:37:50] <eric_unterhausen> the instructions seem to have a few problems if you don't have the exact parport
[23:37:56] <judedude> Yes. To make matters worse I found a new computer but that has video issues.
[23:39:14] <judedude> Is there a specific way Linux wants a parpot installed. The instruction I had installed it a memory location a400.
[23:39:33] <eric_unterhausen> it will install itself, that's a bios issue
[23:39:54] <eric_unterhausen> you then have to figure out where the bios put it
[23:39:59] <eric_unterhausen> linux can't control that
[23:40:27] <judedude> The bios only has one parport showing. Does this mean the bios doesn't support it ?
[23:41:08] <eric_unterhausen> use lspci to find it
[23:41:24] <jmkasunich> the BIOS probaby only deals with a parport that is on the motherboard
[23:41:41] <jmkasunich> if you add another parport (on a PCI card or whatever) the BIOS won't neccessarily know about it
[23:41:42] <eric_unterhausen> bios setup programs are always rudamentary
[23:41:49] <judedude> I ran that and it did show it. Where is the address shown.
[23:42:34] <eric_unterhausen> issue lspci -v and post the results to pastebin.ca
[23:43:13] <judedude> OK, past bin would be where?
[23:43:22] <eric_unterhausen> on the interwebs
[23:43:32] <jmkasunich> www.pastebin.ca
[23:43:53] <eric_unterhausen> I was gonna say that eventually
[23:44:08] <jmkasunich> I thought it was "intarwebs" btw
[23:44:26] <judedude> Great. It will take a few minutes I have pieces scatter about my house and garage.
[23:44:52] <jmkasunich> it is always best to have your EMC computer networked
[23:45:04] <jmkasunich> and to use IRC from that computer - makes pasting stuff much easier
[23:54:41] <judedude> OK its done.
[23:55:54] <judedude> 1356188
[23:56:35] <judedude> Now about the networing comments. Its more important to get the cnc router going than adding networing to my garage.
[23:59:52] <judedude> eric do you see the netmos com controller