#emc | Logs for 2009-03-05

[02:36:39] <judedude> Follow up question from yesterday. I am receiving this errror Joint '0' on limit switch error. Hal shows this pin as false and when i toggle the limit switch it doesn't change. I have it connected to a hobby cnc board pin #10. Has anyone experienced this error ?
[02:38:24] <eric_unterhausen> seems obvious that emc isn't talking to the port
[02:39:56] <judedude> I agree I believe that the port is bad. Any idea what voltage you should see on the port #10 pin to ground ?
[02:40:15] <eric_unterhausen> is there an external pull up?
[02:40:48] <eric_unterhausen> IIRC, a properly initialized parport will be at logic high
[02:40:56] <eric_unterhausen> who knows what voltage that is nowadays
[02:41:05] <judedude> Yes a 10K resistor is on pins 10, 12, 13, and 15.
[02:41:44] <eric_unterhausen> what voltage are you measuring
[02:42:00] <judedude> Logic high is + voltage I measured 24mv.
[02:43:00] <eric_unterhausen> sounds like it's being pulled low
[02:44:00] <judedude> When I activate the switch it goes to 0.
[02:44:37] <eric_unterhausen> 24mv is logic low
[02:44:41] <fenn> it should be 3.3V or 5V
[02:46:00] <judedude> I can't get the port to output anything more than 24mv. I have tried ECP and EEP. Looks like i need a new port.
[02:47:10] <judedude> Thanks for the help :)
[02:47:22] <eric_unterhausen> does lspci -v|more mention any parports?
[02:48:09] <dave_1> logger_emc:bookmark
[02:48:09] <dave_1> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-03-05.txt
[02:48:46] <judedude> I didn't check but the jog functions well and the steppers move.
[02:49:00] <eric_unterhausen> nvr mind then
[02:50:12] <tombrown_> Good evening, gentlemen.
[02:50:32] <tombrown_> I have a question regarding break out boards, drivers, etc.
[02:51:06] <eric_unterhausen> fenn knows everything
[02:51:19] <tombrown_> I am just starting down the path of building a machine. It will be a Joe2000chvy 4x4 Hybrid. It is popular on cnczone.com.
[02:51:33] <tombrown_> I'm a Linux guy so I want to drive it with EMC2.
[02:51:50] <tombrown_> I have not yet selected the steppers/servers/electronics.
[02:52:17] <tombrown_> I'm guessing servos (600~1000 oz in) would be appropriate for such a gantry.
[02:52:54] <tombrown_> I'd like to run fairly new computer hardware but I could probably scare up a board with a parallel port if I had to.
[02:53:23] <judedude> emc has a worksheet that calculates the cutting force and the required stepper size. Its on the wici site.
[02:53:39] <tombrown_> What should I be looking at for interface/driver options. Is there something common that everyone uses?
[02:54:00] <eric_unterhausen> same as the mach guys, pretty much
[02:54:19] <tombrown_> Zylotex seems to be the most popular with them. Same here?
[02:54:21] <eric_unterhausen> for steppers anyway
[02:54:47] <eric_unterhausen> too hard to know the answer to that
[02:55:31] <fenn> connection reset by lack of spring clip in ethernet cable
[02:55:37] <eric_unterhausen> what's this chevy hybrid you mentioned? wood router?
[02:55:45] <tombrown_> Yes. More or less.
[02:55:56] <eric_unterhausen> fenn, I thought you knew everything
[02:56:12] <fenn> judedude: so, as i was saying, pin 10 is in input mode
[02:56:18] <tombrown_> Aluminum gantry (80/20), some wood components, v-bearing.
[02:56:19] <fenn> so turning it on probably wouldn't do much
[02:56:34] <eric_unterhausen> he should be pulling it high though
[02:56:55] <eric_unterhausen> sounds like it is pulled low, or his external pullup is blinked
[02:58:08] <judedude> Its a hobby cnc board and it checks out good.
[02:58:33] <eric_unterhausen> tombrown_: you gotta link to this machine? my search-foo is weak
[02:58:58] <eric_unterhausen> I dunno about that, it's not pulling the port high
[02:59:17] <eric_unterhausen> does it pull the pin high when disconnected?
[02:59:51] <eric_unterhausen> which btw, I have no idea if that's a good idea :o
[03:00:50] <judedude> No the pin is low. I checked the cable and it passes the signal low. At the back of the computer the signal is still low. That is with the invert check or not.
[03:01:05] <tombrown_> http://www.joescnc.com/
[03:01:09] <fenn> like i said, pin 10 is input
[03:01:25] <eric_unterhausen> right, and thus emc is not controlling that pin
[03:01:30] <eric_unterhausen> (sorta)
[03:02:17] <fenn> you can see which pins are input and which are output here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_drivers.html#r1_1_1
[03:02:45] <fenn> hm that pic is sorta screwy (half transparent)
[03:03:16] <judedude> OK I guess I am not so good electically. If 10 is input how can the signal be high.
[03:03:38] <eric_unterhausen> you are supposed to be pulling it high externally
[03:03:48] <eric_unterhausen> is there a jumper
[03:03:49] <eric_unterhausen> ?
[03:04:23] <fenn> if you wire it to logic high the pin should go to logic high (but use a resistor, not just a wire, so you dont break anything)
[03:04:33] <judedude> No. According to HobbyCNC the pins are a pass through pulled up with a 10K resistor
[03:05:18] <eric_unterhausen> which board is it?
[03:05:34] <judedude> Hobby CNC pro board
[03:05:57] <fenn> heh i wonder who thought up that name
[03:06:15] <judedude> you know these guys?
[03:06:33] <fenn> no, just remarking at the irony of "hobby pro"
[03:06:35] <eric_unterhausen> "patented chip protection circuitry" -- I smell something
[03:07:12] <eric_unterhausen> judedude, did you solder it yourself?
[03:07:58] <eric_unterhausen> no online manuals == fail
[03:08:04] <judedude> Yes. I pretty good a soldering been trained in wepon spec soldering.
[03:08:30] <eric_unterhausen> I see jumpers all over that board
[03:09:01] <eric_unterhausen> one picture shows a label that says "no pul.... aieeeeeee, thump"
[03:09:05] <judedude> They did provide a schematic for home switch hook up its the same as on the EMC site.
[03:09:31] <eric_unterhausen> what is the function of J1?
[03:09:46] <fenn> yeah how hard would it be to get a pic of the whole board at once
[03:10:04] <judedude> Pins 1 and a few other do not have pull ups
[03:10:09] <eric_unterhausen> he's very protective, there are missives of hate all over the internet
[03:10:55] <judedude> i know he wasn't much help on this so thats hhow i found you guys.
[03:10:56] <fenn> i wonder why there's a bare pad marked +5V just sitting in the middle of the board with a circle around it
[03:11:35] <eric_unterhausen> can you disconnect and measure the resistance from pin 10 to 5v?
[03:11:43] <judedude> Dave claims its for the pins that have no pull up. Should i be using this?
[03:12:00] <fenn> eric_unterhausen: 1 14 16 17 are always configured as output, so it wouldnt make sense for them to have pullups
[03:12:23] <judedude> Yes I can measure it may take a few minutes.
[03:12:41] <eric_unterhausen> fenn, most parports were open collector
[03:12:50] <eric_unterhausen> meaning there is a pullup somewhere
[03:12:55] <fenn> hmmm
[03:13:01] <eric_unterhausen> dunno about nowadays
[03:13:09] <fenn> well, "nowadays" could be anything
[03:13:18] <eric_unterhausen> no kidding
[03:13:29] <fenn> the great thing about standards is you get to ignore them
[03:13:42] <eric_unterhausen> there is no standard
[03:14:35] <judedude> measures .427K Ohms
[03:14:37] <eric_unterhausen> I'm always really unhappy with products that don't have online manuals
[03:14:52] <fenn> .427k? like 427 ohms?
[03:14:53] <eric_unterhausen> that's a strange number
[03:14:58] <judedude> I thought it would be simple.
[03:15:30] <eric_unterhausen> it is simple
[03:15:49] <eric_unterhausen> that was disconnected from the parport?
[03:15:54] <eric_unterhausen> and the limit switch?
[03:16:11] <eric_unterhausen> because 427 ohms != 10k ohms
[03:16:32] <judedude> No I didn't disconnect it.
[03:16:49] <fenn> you have to disconnect it
[03:17:01] <judedude> OK be right back
[03:17:06] <fenn> otherwise the 24mV on the port (or whatever voltage) will screw with the measurement
[03:17:41] <eric_unterhausen> is that Dave Rigotti?
[03:17:48] <fenn> that sounds familiar
[03:18:46] <eric_unterhausen> there are so many questions that could be answered with a 3 minute superficial reading of a manual
[03:18:56] <fenn> or even a schematic *gasp*
[03:19:07] <eric_unterhausen> I understand that
[03:19:10] <fenn> i dont get why people are so reluctant to release a schematic
[03:19:22] <fenn> it's not like i can't just desolder everything and scan the board in
[03:19:28] <eric_unterhausen> I know, the Chinese would reverse engineer this for fun, twice
[03:19:33] <fenn> a la tormach
[03:19:53] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, and that actually had engineering involved in the original design
[03:20:03] <eric_unterhausen> unlike this board
[03:20:17] <fenn> actually, this board comes without any components on it
[03:20:18] <eric_unterhausen> it's a kit, no desoldering needed
[03:20:22] <fenn> right
[03:21:01] <eric_unterhausen> you could scan it and generate production files and have a board house mail a quote to hobbycnc for giggles
[03:21:54] <judedude> its only 9.8k Ohms
[03:22:01] <fenn> yay
[03:22:03] <eric_unterhausen> so that's right
[03:22:11] <judedude> yep
[03:22:15] <eric_unterhausen> where are you getting the 5 v from?
[03:22:28] <eric_unterhausen> is there more than one 5v supply?
[03:22:45] <judedude> do i need to power the switch with the +5v
[03:23:01] <eric_unterhausen> I would think that would have some amount of isolation
[03:23:19] <fenn> what switch?
[03:23:24] <eric_unterhausen> limit
[03:23:33] <judedude> limit switch
[03:23:53] <eric_unterhausen> have you measured the voltage across the switch?
[03:24:13] <judedude> 24mv when connected
[03:24:23] <eric_unterhausen> that's the switch?
[03:24:33] <eric_unterhausen> I thought that was at the port
[03:25:10] <judedude> yes. Its the same. I checked it to ground.
[03:25:30] <eric_unterhausen> there should be a pullup voltage across the switch when it is open
[03:25:38] <eric_unterhausen> 24mv is not it
[03:26:06] <eric_unterhausen> what is the function of j1, j2, j3, j4, etc?
[03:26:27] <judedude> OK slow down a bit. The switch is only wired from pin 10 to ground. I have on external power.
[03:27:01] <eric_unterhausen> pin 10 of the hobbycnc board, or pin 10 of the parport?
[03:27:22] <judedude> The jumpers are for stepping 1, 1/2, 1/4 etc and idle current reduction.
[03:28:22] <eric_unterhausen> is the switch connected to pin 10 of the hobby cnc board?
[03:28:38] <judedude> Pin 10 of the hobby board whitch should be pin 10 of the parport.
[03:29:59] <eric_unterhausen> I think I was operating under the mistaken impression that the "Pro" board would have buffering
[03:30:47] <judedude> There doesn't appear to be any isolation. Continuuity check shows it goes right thru.
[03:31:02] <fenn> what do you think Q4 does?
[03:31:32] <fenn> oh i bet that's the l297
[03:31:33] <eric_unterhausen> it's a secreet
[03:31:44] <fenn> carefully sanded so you can't read the part number
[03:31:50] <judedude> Something to do with syncronous idle current stuff. Dave was offended when I asked about this.
[03:32:54] <eric_unterhausen> are you sure the 5v regulator is putting out 5v?
[03:33:09] <eric_unterhausen> I guess it is though
[03:33:41] <fenn> * fenn goes to bed
[03:33:48] <fenn> good luck divining the answer :)
[03:33:50] <eric_unterhausen> piker
[03:33:52] <judedude> yep. I checked it at 5.17V. Is this suppose to drive the 5V on the limit switch.
[03:34:55] <eric_unterhausen> is the ground at the board at the same potential as the ground at the computer?
[03:35:59] <judedude> I'll need to verify that. Youre talking about the parpot ground?
[03:36:09] <eric_unterhausen> I would power up the board disconnected from the computer and see what the voltage from pin 10 to ground is
[03:36:41] <eric_unterhausen> those two grounds need to be the same
[03:40:02] <judedude> The voltage from 10 to ground is 5.14V
[03:40:20] <eric_unterhausen> so it is being pulled low by the parport
[03:41:39] <judedude> OK now I am lost.
[03:42:04] <eric_unterhausen> me too, but that's because I'm somewhere on the internet
[03:42:53] <judedude> Why doesn't emc like this ?
[03:43:25] <eric_unterhausen> was the 5.14v from 10 to ground with it connected to the computer?
[03:44:16] <judedude> No I disconnected the limit switch and the parport.
[03:44:37] <eric_unterhausen> connect one back up
[03:44:42] <eric_unterhausen> and re-measure
[03:44:47] <eric_unterhausen> your choice which
[03:48:14] <judedude> connecting the parport 4.2mv and if I just connect the limit switch N.C. I get 0.
[03:49:10] <eric_unterhausen> I guess it was worth a try, but it looks like your conclusion an hour ago may have been correct
[03:50:28] <judedude> OK I bought a parport and I'll install it tomorrow. Really appreciate your help. Let fenn know as well.
[03:50:44] <eric_unterhausen> let us know
[03:51:04] <judedude> You bet. Till then.
[04:09:43] <|dareposte|> cradek: it seems like that spindle-on bug is still there in some capacity
[04:10:05] <cradek> oh? what details can you give?
[04:10:10] <|dareposte|> i haven't put my finger on exactly what sequence of events causes it yet
[04:10:14] <|dareposte|> i will write it down
[04:10:18] <cradek> ok
[04:10:26] <|dareposte|> the spindle has to be on, like in low speed
[04:10:29] <cradek> I have not seen it and I've used trunk a LOT
[04:10:37] <|dareposte|> then execute a g43 command, and it will speed up a lot
[04:10:41] <cradek> oh
[04:10:43] <cradek> that's normal
[04:10:46] <|dareposte|> is it?
[04:10:53] <cradek> sure, the radius changes when you issue g43
[04:11:00] <cradek> if it's in CSS mode, it will change speed
[04:11:01] <|dareposte|> yeah for css i guess it would make sense
[04:11:12] <|dareposte|> but my two tools i was using today were very close to the same centerpoint
[04:11:42] <cradek> definitely let us know if you think there is a problem and you can demonstrate it somehow
[04:11:49] <cradek> sim/lathe is good for that because it has a spindle rpm readout
[04:11:50] <|dareposte|> yeah i will try to take better notes
[04:12:01] <|dareposte|> i was just in a rush to get parts made today
[04:12:13] <cradek> I've sure been in that position
[04:12:14] <|dareposte|> got 42 made, but 8 left for tomorrow
[04:12:21] <cradek> it sure doesn't help one make a good bug report
[04:12:26] <|dareposte|> yeah
[04:12:46] <|dareposte|> there also seemed to be some weirdness with touch-off in X to tool table, but that might have been me
[04:13:08] <cradek> heh
[04:13:13] <|dareposte|> several times i could have sworn i only touched off to tool table, like for correcting an oversized part, and it wound up wtih a g92 offset
[04:13:41] <|dareposte|> the only way i know how to fix that is close down emc, edit the .var file, and restart it
[04:13:48] <cradek> touch off definitely doesn't make g92 offsets
[04:13:48] <|dareposte|> probably an easier way but i haven't found it yet
[04:14:06] <|dareposte|> okay maybe it is just me going too fast through the motions
[04:14:08] <cradek> you can clear g92 offsets with mdi g92.1 or on the machine menu
[04:14:16] <|dareposte|> handy
[04:14:24] <|dareposte|> is there a way you can view what the offset is?
[04:14:35] <|dareposte|> i.e. to check if it's non-zero
[04:15:09] <cradek> hmm, all I can think of is to do g92.2, g92.3, see if the dro changes
[04:15:13] <|dareposte|> but props again on the touch-off to tool table, it makes minor adjustments for wear so much easier
[04:15:39] <|dareposte|> if a part comes out 0.05 over, simple to touch it up for the next one
[04:15:40] <|dareposte|> i love it
[04:15:58] <cradek> cool, glad you like it, me too
[04:16:24] <cradek> I just used it tonight for adjusting a boring bar
[04:16:55] <cradek> bore came out perfectly on size and with some nice chatter marks that only happened on the last pass :-/
[04:17:17] <|dareposte|> i get that sometimes
[04:17:26] <|dareposte|> if i try to baby a finishing pass
[04:17:37] <cradek> yeah that's a sure failure
[04:17:46] <|dareposte|> gotta make a cut i guess, i'm learning
[04:18:02] <cradek> they have to all be the same, you have to prepare and then cross your fingers on the last one
[04:18:08] <|dareposte|> yeah
[04:18:10] <cradek> (with carbide anyway)
[04:18:20] <cradek> with sharp HSS you can baby it
[04:18:22] <|dareposte|> i learned that with my boring head on the mill
[04:18:35] <|dareposte|> take a couple, measure, extrapolate, set it, and let it rip
[04:18:53] <|dareposte|> sharp hss with a big rake angle i hear works well, but i never have bothered trying it
[04:19:27] <cradek> I use it a lot actually
[04:19:48] <cradek> I have a little boring bar I made from 1/8 square hss
[04:19:54] <cradek> for small holes in aluminum
[04:20:01] <|dareposte|> tiny holes..
[04:21:13] <|dareposte|> i was impressed with my lathe today... it was turning out parts repeatable to 0.01mm for hours
[04:21:46] <|dareposte|> i could watch the OD's slowly creep up over 5-8 parts or so as the tool edge wore in a bit
[04:22:00] <|dareposte|> then a minor adjustment and right back on target
[04:22:09] <|dareposte|> very cool, i have never experienced that before
[04:22:21] <cradek> neat
[04:22:31] <cradek> what is different?
[04:22:40] <|dareposte|> speeds, feeds, better coding
[04:22:45] <|dareposte|> less crashing
[04:22:50] <cradek> haha
[04:22:58] <|dareposte|> slowed the rapids down, i think they may have been skipping a step here and there before
[04:23:11] <cradek> ah, not good
[04:23:22] <|dareposte|> i had them up at 2800mm/min, too fast really
[04:23:45] <|dareposte|> slowed them down to 1800 and they seem to be more repeatable now
[04:23:55] <|dareposte|> also learned to program around backlash in my screws, it seems to help too
[04:25:09] <|dareposte|> do you know if anybody has ever considered adding the basic roughing cycles?
[04:25:24] <cradek> I was just thinking about it today
[04:25:38] <cradek> it would be somewhat challenging to do
[04:26:01] <|dareposte|> i would be willing to help, but i'm not sure i would want to lead something like that yet
[04:26:07] <|dareposte|> don't know my way around the source yet
[04:26:38] <cradek> I think it would be about as hard as the new cutter compensation I did recently
[04:26:47] <|dareposte|> it seems like it should be fairly straight forward... just a projection into a revolved plane really
[04:27:08] <|dareposte|> as far as implementing it, maybe not so easy though
[04:27:14] <cradek> that took several weeks (?) of most of my spare time
[04:27:26] <|dareposte|> yeah coding eats up time
[04:27:38] <cradek> yeah it's not conceptually hard, I agree
[04:28:14] <cradek> it's the details
[04:28:25] <|dareposte|> i bet it is
[04:28:36] <|dareposte|> and the weird profiles
[04:28:52] <|dareposte|> like an undercut or something? i wonder how those are handled by a commercial controller
[04:28:58] <|dareposte|> for example making a chess pawn
[04:29:52] <cradek> you can quickly get into the realm I consider CAM
[04:30:09] <|dareposte|> yeah
[04:31:16] <|dareposte|> is the source only patchable in c?
[04:31:56] <cradek> our gcode interpreter is written in C/C++ and that's where this would go
[04:32:25] <|dareposte|> file name?
[04:32:36] <cradek> src/emc/rs274ngc/*
[04:32:47] <|dareposte|> maybe i can take a crack at it and see what breaks
[04:33:47] <|dareposte|> if it fails miserably then at least i might learn something
[04:34:20] <cradek> you could also help by collecting and distilling the data required to write a real meaningful spec saying what it should do and how it should work at the gcode level
[04:35:18] <|dareposte|> oh great, i have a bunch of reference i was reading over already
[04:35:31] <cradek> the intersection of "expert concerning how lots of commercial controls work" and "expert at improving the emc2 interpreter" is exactly zero
[04:35:56] <cradek> so someone who can do the go-between would be very useful
[04:36:20] <|dareposte|> i can definitely do that
[04:36:38] <cradek> hm, I should get to bed
[04:36:40] <cradek> goodnight
[04:36:42] <|dareposte|> night
[04:36:44] <cradek> glad to hear of your successes
[04:39:20] <|dareposte|> thanks
[04:39:27] <|dareposte|> i'm thoroughly enjoying this software
[08:17:53] <izua> so.. is this the right place to ask questions about cnc control in general?
[08:18:15] <alex_joni> izua: no problem in doing so :)
[08:18:42] <alex_joni> but usually, around this time of day there is little going on in here
[08:19:17] <izua> heh, guess so. around here is 10 am
[08:19:46] <izua> anyway, i'm trying to understand the basic principle behind controlled acc/dec - so successive smaller lines are 'blended' together
[08:21:23] <izua> it's relatively simple on a single axis. consider that axis is part of a two axis cnc (foam cutter or so). i know my angle, max speed and max accel, so I can compute my axis speed (vector) out of the max speed (vector sum). I also know my deplacement (or time that speed needs to be applied - synced with the other axis).
[08:21:32] <izua> IN theory all is wonderful for a single axis
[08:21:46] <izua> But for two of 'em, do you simply double everything?
[08:22:36] <eric_unterhausen> why couldn't you still do the vector sum?
[08:23:48] <izua> no, i mean, i don't see how blending will be achieved there
[08:24:13] <izua> i do the vector sum there (well it's technically vector.. decomposition or something) so I can obtain individual axis speeds, which summed up give my max speed
[08:24:19] <eric_unterhausen> you can see how it's done in EMC by downloading the source :)
[08:24:26] <izua> ..that's the way it should work, right?
[08:25:09] <izua> i've tried actually. i even burned the whole distro on a cd (man it took me a long time to find a blank cd :P) but the truth is, i'm not that good with software involving more than two-three files..
[08:26:06] <alex_joni> izua: think about it a bit easier
[08:26:10] <alex_joni> you have 2 moves
[08:26:18] <alex_joni> the first move is decelerating to a halt
[08:26:32] <alex_joni> the next move is accelerating from a stop to move vel
[08:26:59] <alex_joni> now if you combine the two (at the moment when you start decelerating move1, you start accelerating move2)
[08:27:06] <alex_joni> and you add the two outputs, you get blending
[08:27:28] <izua> yes.. but how exactly do I blend the two?
[08:28:01] <izua> I need a parameter, at least, that says how much can be blended together.. so in some instances (like very sharp angles) it would deccelerate rather than blend
[08:29:01] <izua> my long-term purpose here would be to make a stand-alone board that does what emc does. released under o/s of course.
[08:29:27] <izua> the electronics and implementing an algo wouldn't be such a hassle i guess, but I still need to understand the principle before hand, hehe
[08:31:27] <eric_unterhausen> if that's what you are doing, you should download the EMC source and look through the kinematics section
[08:34:00] <izua> sure. i'll check it
[08:38:58] <pjm__> good morning
[08:46:11] <izua> as another side question, how does error correction fits with acc/dec
[08:46:15] <archivist> izua, its already in the trajectory planner
[08:47:17] <eric_unterhausen> he wants to port emc to an 8 pin Pic or something like that
[08:47:43] <archivist> and pigs might fly
[08:47:55] <archivist> * archivist has seen a pig fly
[08:48:02] <izua> lol, no.
[08:48:03] <eric_unterhausen> it's been ported to a z80
[08:48:22] <izua> it would probably be a avr with a fpga around, or an avr32 (which would be waaay easier)
[08:48:34] <izua> but I intend on rewriting the whole thing, which would prove I understood the concept :)
[08:49:04] <eric_unterhausen> you should port it to an ARM
[08:49:09] <eric_unterhausen> they're cheaper
[08:49:16] <eric_unterhausen> and run linux
[08:49:22] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Trapezoidal_Velocity_Profile_Trajectory_Planner
[08:49:26] <eric_unterhausen> and probably don't require much of a port
[08:49:35] <izua> yes, that would simply be a port
[08:50:07] <izua> yeah! that's exactly what I was saying earlier
[08:50:07] <izua> i understand it perfectly for one axis
[08:50:13] <izua> i even made a c# sim somewhere (yeah, bash me, .net)
[08:50:17] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Tp_Notes
[08:50:25] <izua> but do you simply duplicate everything for 2 axis?
[08:50:52] <eric_unterhausen> so much better to read the code
[08:55:12] <izua> ok, ok..
[08:57:34] <MrSunshine_> ello people :)
[08:57:52] <MrSunshine_> in the ubuntu emc cd ... why cant i update it ? :)
[09:02:06] <Dallur1> MrSunshine: can you be a bit more specific ?
[09:02:09] <archivist> update the cd, or update the resultant install
[09:06:25] <izua> man this is huge..
[09:11:29] <MrSunshine_> the installed version
[09:11:29] <alex_joni> izua: basicly the trajectory planner doesn't work with individual joints
[09:11:37] <alex_joni> only very late in the process
[09:11:39] <MrSunshine_> ive installed it and its 357 updates available :)
[09:11:47] <alex_joni> until then it works with vectors
[09:11:55] <alex_joni> which contain all moving joints
[09:12:03] <alex_joni> MrSunshine_: so what's the error?
[09:12:13] <MrSunshine_> alex_joni: the emc2 page told me not to update :)
[09:12:17] <MrSunshine_> cause then emc stops working
[09:12:27] <alex_joni> it told you not to update to another Ubuntu version
[09:12:51] <alex_joni> err.. let me be more specific
[09:13:03] <alex_joni> it told you not to _upgrade_ to another Ubuntu version
[09:15:50] <MrSunshine_> so i can do the updates if i want to then ? :)
[09:15:54] <MrSunshine_> without emc stopping to work :9
[09:16:48] <alex_joni> yup
[09:16:54] <MrSunshine_> k il trust you .. :)
[09:17:00] <alex_joni> the only possible problem I know is if you installed ubuntu first
[09:17:08] <alex_joni> then installed emc2 (not by using the LiveCD)
[09:17:24] <alex_joni> then if you install regular ubuntu kernel updates it will redo the order of kernels in grub
[09:17:37] <alex_joni> and you need to be carefull to chose the right one (2.6.24-16-rtai)
[09:18:00] <alex_joni> but if you started from the LiveCD there should be nothing that interferes with emc2
[09:19:20] <MrSunshine_> * MrSunshine_ got his first cnc machine up and running today .. tho still missing 4 axial ballbearings
[09:19:36] <MrSunshine_> small cute pcb milling machine :)
[09:20:00] <izua> what work area?
[09:20:16] <MrSunshine_> about a eurocard :P
[09:20:30] <MrSunshine_> dunno what they are, 10x16cm ?
[09:20:41] <izua> wow
[09:20:41] <MrSunshine_> it became ALOT smaller then i thought it would be when i started building :)
[09:20:56] <izua> that's pretty cool
[09:21:06] <MrSunshine_> but its made for pcb milling so :)
[09:21:11] <MrSunshine_> dont need much bigger for hobby stuff
[09:21:12] <izua> thought so
[09:21:18] <izua> also good for robotics and stuff..
[09:21:22] <izua> no need for a lot of big parts
[09:21:23] <MrSunshine_> got a real mill in the cellar im going to cnc convert :)
[09:21:39] <MrSunshine_> got started on it but then the money ran out :)
[09:26:13] <MrSunshine_> tho its very slow, bad motors and controllers :)
[09:26:20] <MrSunshine_> only 48 steps/rev and no microstepping :P
[09:32:07] <MrSunshine_> i realy should get stuff to make x, y, z, max switches tho
[09:33:50] <MrSunshine_> settng the config to "both limit X" that will be just one input and the program figures it out by the direction its going right ?
[09:34:27] <MrSunshine_> and the home thingie then it goes to the home position == when the switch turns on ? :)
[09:36:54] <MrSunshine_> adding a couple of microswitches shouldnt be to hard, have to change the cable from the cnc to the pc tho :)
[09:41:35] <izua> just use the hardware
[09:41:47] <izua> add some good motors and some a3986 drivers and you should be fine
[09:42:05] <izua> heck, even 3977 should work if they are less powerfull motors
[09:46:22] <archivist> real hardware may well need beefier drivers
[09:58:42] <izua> heh, sure.
[09:59:16] <izua> 3977 blows up over 2 amps
[10:01:17] <archivist> Im running 2.5 to 3 amps at 30v per stepper on a small mill
[10:04:18] <izua> what drivers?
[10:05:07] <izua> and speaking of drivers, has anyone made an o/s gecko yet? what magic do geckos have in them, anyway?
[10:05:12] <archivist> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Stepper-Drivers
[10:18:34] <izua> nice ones.
[10:18:41] <izua> have you opened them up yet? :)
[10:19:14] <archivist> I looked in one
[10:25:27] <alex_joni> izua: there was a post of an gecko clone somewhere on the web
[10:27:13] <archivist> izua, I know from a previous day job that I may as well get pre-built drivers, too much work and not enough money saved when you do it yourself
[10:29:57] <alex_joni> archivist: that is probably the sane way to think about it
[10:30:12] <alex_joni> but otoh we only get to hear from the people who think otherwise in the beginning ;)
[10:30:24] <archivist> and I want it to work
[10:31:02] <alex_joni> I have no problems spending 4-5k EUR on a servo drive
[10:31:16] <alex_joni> even if I could probably build one in 3-4 years maybe?
[10:32:23] <archivist> time to implement a machine is a factor
[11:45:18] <MrSunshine_> anyone got any ideas how i can increase the torque of the motors? anything i should think about while doing the settings in the wizard?
[11:45:21] <MrSunshine_> step times etc
[11:45:34] <MrSunshine_> i could increase them to 7V but then they will get mighty hot fast :P
[11:45:51] <izua> gearing?
[11:46:05] <MrSunshine_> isnt it high voltage low apare when moving and high ampare low voltage while holding ?
[11:49:51] <MrSunshine_> i was thinking mostley the step hold etc times
[11:49:58] <MrSunshine_> if they have something to do with it ?
[11:55:46] <alex_joni> MrSunshine_: not really
[11:55:58] <alex_joni> different times need to be correct so you don't lose steps
[11:56:06] <alex_joni> but they can't add more torque
[11:56:16] <alex_joni> for that you probably need smarter drivers, or better motors
[11:56:29] <alex_joni> (smarter drivers = current limited drivers with high voltage input)
[11:56:38] <MrSunshine_> ye
[11:56:43] <alex_joni> usually it's best to drive a stepper around 20-30 times the rated voltage
[11:56:51] <MrSunshine_> acceleraton then ... what is that? :)
[11:56:58] <alex_joni> I run mine (small steppers) at around 40V
[11:57:12] <alex_joni> acceleration is how fast the axis spins up to speed
[11:57:21] <alex_joni> if you get lost steps then you can set lower accel
[11:57:32] <alex_joni> but that will cause blending to have a much bigger effect
[11:57:43] <alex_joni> e.g. higher path deviation to keep the speed up
[12:00:04] <OoBIGeye> just turn blending off... that is always an option
[12:00:41] <alex_joni> OoBIGeye: sure it is, but then you get lousy performance :)
[12:00:51] <alex_joni> as it needs to stop at each end of every move
[12:01:24] <OoBIGeye> well, if accuracy is nothing to do with performance :)
[12:01:38] <OoBIGeye> when blend everything to the max...
[12:01:43] <OoBIGeye> :O)
[12:03:01] <alex_joni> OoBIGeye: ideally you have infinite accel
[12:03:11] <alex_joni> so you don't need to deviate from the path while blending
[12:03:19] <MrSunshine_> alex_joni: ye these drivers are constant current/voltage
[12:03:20] <alex_joni> but I haven't seen machines that can do more than 3-4g
[12:03:27] <MrSunshine_> 5v with constant what the motor sucks in it
[12:03:31] <MrSunshine_> so its qute bad stuff :)
[12:03:46] <alex_joni> 5v seems awfully low
[12:04:00] <alex_joni> what current limit do you have on these motors?
[12:04:23] <OoBIGeye> 3-4g is alot!
[12:05:07] <alex_joni> OoBIGeye: I _know_
[12:05:13] <alex_joni> especially on a 100kg gantry :D
[12:05:20] <alex_joni> it's really scary
[12:05:32] <OoBIGeye> the new linear motors are rated at 80g when they start using them it'll be fun...
[13:31:57] <stuste1> I am having a VERY frustrating time here. My calculation results look correct as long as I bypass the kinematics equation in my kinematics file. Using gdb the values are what I want. When I connect the kinematics calculations the values are not the same. I cannot see why this is different. I have had the equations working for 3 or 4 months. I cannot get them to work in the control.
[13:35:19] <jepler> hi stustev
[13:35:37] <stustev> good morning jepler
[13:35:59] <stustev> are you ready for another fun day?
[13:36:07] <jepler> oh they're keeping me busy at work here
[13:36:18] <stustev> THAT is a good thing
[13:36:24] <jepler> yeah it is
[13:36:27] <stustev> and good to hear
[13:36:40] <jepler> the part where my manager's manager gives me new priorities every 2 days is starting to chafe a bit
[13:37:15] <stustev> I want this thing done NOW and then I want that done before you do the first thing
[13:37:31] <jepler> yes, exactly!
[13:38:08] <stustev> the consolation is - he is getting the same instructions from either his boss or the customers
[13:38:09] <archivist> heh after a while I bite back in that situation, job swapping costs time!
[13:39:13] <jepler> stustev: so you have two PCs, one where you used --enable-simulator so you can run gdb and one where you actually want to run hardware
[13:39:18] <jepler> stustev: and the two of them behave differently?
[13:39:27] <stustev> I hear people say I am going in business for myself because I am tired of having a boss - heh - now every customer is your boss :)
[13:39:54] <jepler> free software projects are the same, except your customers don't pay you either :-P
[13:40:45] <stustev> jepler: how many :) :) :) are payment enough?
[13:41:06] <stustev> I am using only one PC - everything is in simulator
[13:41:50] <stustev> I recompile and restart to change the configuration of the kinematics
[13:43:34] <stustev> when I get this figured out I will then go to the machine with it
[13:43:36] <jepler> can you be specific about what you change?
[13:43:50] <jepler> you modify the source code? a hal file?
[13:44:08] <stustev> I modify the source code of my kinematics
[13:45:05] <stustev> I use pos->a = joints[3] or pos->a = (a number)
[13:46:07] <stustev> when I use the former (bypassing the kinematics calculation) the variable I calculate and view using gdb are correct
[13:46:54] <jepler> oh -- so in your first kind of testing you are using a specific hardcoded number instead of the actual joint position .. and in the other kind you are using a changing number that comes from emc
[13:46:57] <stustev> when I try to use pos->a = (my calculated variable) the viewed calculations are incorrect
[13:47:02] <stustev> yes
[13:48:39] <stustev> pos->a = joints[3] and joints[3] = pos->a bypass my calculation. In this configuration I view my calculated variables and they look correct
[13:49:55] <stustev> when I try to use my calculated variable ie pos->a = (calculated position) and joints[3] = (calculated joint position) my calculations are not correct
[13:50:13] <jepler> that's weird
[13:50:23] <skunkworks_> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:50:23] <skunkworks_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-03-05.txt
[13:50:26] <stustev> thanks for the insight
[13:50:30] <stustev> :)
[13:51:42] <jepler> it's the best insight I have at the moment :(
[13:52:16] <stuste1> WEELLLLL - I already had that much figured out :)
[13:53:15] <jepler> can you easily let me take a look at the source? not that I can take much time to look at it right now
[13:55:41] <stuste1> done - the source is www.mpm1.com:8080/cinci/5axhydrotelkins_work.c
[13:56:13] <stuste1> you can see where is comment/uncomment things
[13:56:25] <jepler> can I just change axis_9axis to use this kins file, or do I need more "set up" than that?
[13:57:52] <stuste1> you would need some hal file changes also
[14:00:20] <stuste1> the ini hal var tbl file are there now
[14:05:00] <stuste1> the 5axhydrotelgui.py is there now - I have it in src/hal/user_comps/vismach - I have the config files in config/vismach
[14:05:07] <jepler> I had hacked it out already
[14:05:41] <stuste1> you are too fast :) (or maybe I am just too slow) ;)
[14:06:13] <BJT-Work_> BJT-Work_ is now known as BJT-Work
[14:07:39] <stuste1> bbiam
[14:08:00] <fenn> serious WTF - has steel gone up 2000% since I last ordered any?
[14:09:31] <fenn> quick poll - how much should a 1/2" round 36" long rod cost?
[14:09:33] <jepler> stustev: here's all I've learned so far: I print facomp on the terminal and look at "A" in the DRO, and they match..
[14:10:52] <stuste1> check B also - and don't even try to tell me it just works I will scream - I may be bald the next time you see me
[14:11:25] <jepler> welll I wouldn't say it works -- when I was jogging only B, A was changing as well..
[14:12:09] <stuste1> A joint should change with a B only change if the error variables have anything but zero in them
[14:12:35] <stuste1> B joint should change with A joint motion
[14:12:51] <stuste1> the axis positions shouldn't change though
[14:13:02] <jepler> I was looking at axis positions, not joints
[14:13:15] <stuste1> problem then
[14:13:58] <jepler> it started at B=360 and said it was on a limit switch (which I'm sure it was) -- is this what it does for you too?
[14:14:17] <stuste1> that is the same as what I see
[14:15:06] <stuste1> you can set the axis limit at 10000 and you will still get the axis limit switch warning
[14:17:47] <jepler> $ double fbcomp = (r2d(atan2(fva22,fva17))) + 180;
[14:17:59] <jepler> well I can tell you one thing -- this is the line that gives you 360 when you want 0
[14:18:23] <jepler> r2d(atan2) returns a value from -180 to 180 .. when you add 180, it gives you a value from 0 to 360
[14:18:46] <jepler> there's a discontinuity between 0 and 360, and you end up on the wrong side of it
[14:20:09] <stustev> when I have the calculation bypassed that line gives me zero when I view it with gdb and 360 when I don't have the calculation bypassed
[14:20:27] <stustev> isn't it -360?
[14:20:48] <jepler> (jogging 4 to be just a tiny bit positive before switching to coord mode gives you B=small, not B=360)
[14:25:09] <jepler> other than that I don't see obvious problems -- I think you only have subtle problems
[14:25:24] <MrSunshine_> yey, priliminary table done, Z axis in place :)
[14:25:26] <jepler> sorry I'm not able to immediately solve it for you
[14:25:35] <stuste1> here too - with A also - if my logic was complete the A joint would move when I move B and vice versa
[14:25:56] <skunkworks_> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74908
[14:26:20] <stuste1> thanks though - your insight has been a tremendous relief - now on the the SUBTLE things :)
[14:27:32] <stuste1> I just may have to take a trip to Lincoln to find the subtle things :)
[14:30:02] <jepler> I'm not sure what good that'd do you
[14:30:08] <jepler> bbl, coffee time here at the office
[14:31:24] <archivist> skunkworks, I think that user on cnczone should look at all the youtube wire bending vids
[14:36:54] <stustev> a trip to lincoln could possible clear some of the fog behind my eyes
[14:38:15] <JymmmEMC> Morning
[14:39:25] <cradek> does atan2(-y,-x) give you the same as your atan2(y,x)+180 but without the range problem?
[14:48:48] <jepler> "The new generation PLC-UART motherboard also support DIP by optional pins that can be used to directly plug to user's board without doing screwing"
[14:49:38] <skunkworks_> that sounds like a bad translationl....
[14:53:59] <stuste1> cradek: good morning - I will try that
[14:54:29] <cradek> hi stuart
[14:56:05] <stuste1> I removed the '+ 180' from the line - the cone is upside down now - I will try the (-y,-x) now :)
[15:02:33] <stuste1> cradek: how do you do that? this is working now - I see the numbers I expected. Now the subtle things will come into play. My results are not perfect but now at least EMC2 matches gdb. bbiam
[15:06:39] <cradek> jepler spotted the problem - I just figured out the easiest solution
[15:23:49] <stuste1> you can be inclusive (more than one person)
[16:59:58] <seb_kuzminsky> check out this machine: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/03/cnc_car_form_prototyping.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890
[17:00:10] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont think it's emc2, unfortunately :-/
[17:10:30] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: that sure is a big-ass machine
[17:10:52] <jepler> hi seb_kuzminsky
[17:10:58] <seb_kuzminsky> hiya guys :-)
[17:11:04] <alex_joni> for machines that size, the control software cost is negligable
[17:11:16] <alex_joni> a few k$ sure don't count ;)
[17:11:53] <izua> seeing k$ reminded me..
[17:12:05] <izua> why do people call microsoft M$ and not u$ :P
[17:12:08] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: although I must say .. the CAM they use is pretty dumb :)
[17:12:31] <seb_kuzminsky> you think they could optimize their toolpaths a bit?
[17:13:07] <JymmmEMC> ?
[17:13:09] <alex_joni> it's not really 5-axis toolpaths
[17:13:26] <alex_joni> it is 5-axis when they apply that glue/compound
[17:13:47] <alex_joni> you see how the tool stays perpendicular on the surface
[17:14:39] <alex_joni> I just got to the part where they mill after applying the gue, that looks more like it :)
[17:18:09] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC shoves alex_joni into the machine and turns him into a YUGO!
[17:18:34] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: unlike you I am actually familiar with the Yugo ;)
[17:18:38] <alex_joni> even drove one once
[17:18:45] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[17:19:02] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: I thought you actually modified one (or two) ?
[17:19:08] <archivist> and survived !
[17:19:10] <alex_joni> er.. nope ;)
[17:19:27] <alex_joni> hmm.. didn't know they used to sell them to US too
[17:19:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i burned out the clutch while offroading in a yugo once in tajikistan
[17:19:56] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: yep!
[17:20:19] <JymmmEMC> Now I guess it's the "SmartCar"
[17:20:29] <alex_joni> smartcar?
[17:20:32] <JymmmEMC> Diknky lil eurotrash thing
[17:20:36] <archivist> thats a Merc
[17:20:37] <JymmmEMC> dinky
[17:20:44] <alex_joni> you mean the Smart
[17:20:55] <alex_joni> archivist: sure is priced like one
[17:21:02] <JymmmEMC> http://www.smartusa.com/
[17:21:30] <archivist> so embarrassed they renamed it
[17:21:34] <alex_joni> although I must say I like how the Smart Roadster Brabus looks
[17:21:58] <alex_joni> don't think that one is available on smartusa.com
[17:22:06] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: DUDE! If I walked to fast and bumped into one, it be totaled!
[17:22:12] <JymmmEMC> s/to/too/
[17:22:29] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: http://www.techfresh.net/smart-roadster-v6-brabus-video/
[17:23:29] <JymmmEMC> video removed due to copyright
[17:23:52] <alex_joni> or this: http://stb.msn.com/i/25/A9BCAC5FB576EA6C534C887CC97F6E.jpg
[17:25:06] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: found another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKzUcL4g60E
[17:26:49] <JymmmEMC> the back end looks fugly
[17:29:58] <alex_joni> there are 2 versions
[17:30:04] <alex_joni> the roadster and the roadster coupe
[17:30:38] <alex_joni> http://www.carenthusiast.com/smart/smart_roadsterbrabus2004_56.jpg
[17:32:34] <JymmmEMC> still looks fugly =)
[17:39:11] <fenn> the CRX has returned!
[17:41:34] <fenn> and smaller than ever, apparently: http://www.sparkplug.org.uk/gallery.php?gallery=images/smart/roadster/gallery/&index=3
[18:05:30] <izua> gaaah, that thing is hideous.
[18:05:42] <izua> the car is ok though.
[18:41:11] <JymmmEMC> this looks much better http://www.sparkplug.org.uk/gallery.php?gallery=images/smart/roadster/gallery/&index=5
[18:41:29] <eric_unterhausen> strange looking car
[18:41:54] <alex_joni> that's uglier imo :)
[19:23:36] <motioncontrol> Good evening.one council.what is the more stable version of debian linux and rtai ? thanks
[19:23:58] <motioncontrol> i have problem with 5.0 lenny and rtai 3.7.1
[19:43:01] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: what kind of problems?
[19:45:59] <motioncontrol> good evening alex.i have install this configuration on 2 maschine for prove
[19:47:38] <motioncontrol> the sistem when you open the windown or simple operation system , some times stop the mouse and the sistem is not operate.the keiboard is kill and i reset the pc for init the syetem.
[19:48:07] <alex_joni> sounds like a problem with the kernel
[19:48:23] <alex_joni> how did you install emc2?
[19:48:45] <motioncontrol> i don't have install emc2 , because the sistem is no stable
[19:49:04] <motioncontrol> i have disableb the pc speacker
[19:49:06] <alex_joni> oh, you mean that is with the default lenny kernel?
[19:49:31] <motioncontrol> no i have install kernel
[19:50:17] <alex_joni> well.. if that doesn't work, why not use the default kernel?
[19:50:37] <alex_joni> anyways, probably #debian is more appropriate than here..
[19:51:06] <motioncontrol> which patch the defaul kernel?
[19:51:18] <cradek> surely they will say "use our kernel"
[19:51:20] <motioncontrol> i don't have the source
[19:51:55] <alex_joni> just like we say use the packages we built
[19:52:06] <motioncontrol> the rtai3.7.i / i386 not have the patch
[19:52:47] <motioncontrol> your package run on ubuntu or debian?
[19:53:10] <alex_joni> I see 4 patches for 2.6.26 in RTAI magma
[19:53:14] <alex_joni> ubuntu
[19:54:08] <motioncontrol> rtai magma i don't see on rtai site ...? what dowload it?
[19:54:16] <alex_joni> http://cvs.gna.org/cvsweb/magma/base/arch/x86/patches/?cvsroot=rtai
[19:55:10] <motioncontrol> one question on ubuntu i can compile emc2 ? i don't have all library or package the debian
[19:55:36] <alex_joni> on ubuntu you don't have to compile, you can simply install the packages
[19:55:43] <alex_joni> but only on ubuntu 6.06 or 8.04
[19:57:02] <motioncontrol> if i use the live cd ubuntu i can't compile emc2 .is possible install all package for compile emc2 ?
[19:57:18] <tombrown_> I'm about to order electronics. How is EMC2 with the HobbyCNC Pro controller?
[19:57:45] <BJT-Work> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Problems
[19:58:50] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work goes to the screw store
[19:59:00] <motioncontrol> ok alex i want compile emc2 .what is the linux version for compile and use the emc2 stable ?
[19:59:57] <alex_joni> any version should be ok
[20:00:15] <alex_joni> _but_ if you go with ubuntu, which we support, then you know at least the kernel & rtai packages are ok
[20:00:25] <alex_joni> so you don't waste time building those until they work
[20:01:12] <tombrown_> Thak you, BJT-Work. I appreciate it.
[20:01:22] <motioncontrol> alex can i compile on debian maschine and use on ubuntu maschine work ?
[20:01:41] <cradek> BJT-Work: wow, what a writeup
[20:04:48] <cradek> tombrown_: if I recall, kim was not the only one to have trouble with the hobbycnc board.
[20:05:14] <cradek> the xylotex is twice the price but has no known bugs and runs bipolar which is also superior
[20:05:23] <archivist_attic> something on the mailing list iirc
[20:06:33] <tombrown_> Thank you, Cradek.
[20:09:05] <motioncontrol> can i compile on debian maschine and use on ubuntu maschine work ?
[20:09:14] <cradek> no
[20:09:36] <tombrown_> I see Zylotex has a bundle with a 4 axis drive box and 4 x 425 oz in steppers. http://www.xylotex.com/Econo4Ax425.htm
[20:09:57] <motioncontrol> cradek when you compile use debian or ununtu ?
[20:09:59] <tombrown_> It looks like what I need.
[20:10:21] <tombrown_> Any advice?
[20:11:16] <cradek> it doesn't say what mounting the motors are
[20:11:25] <tombrown_> Others have told me to go with the HobbyCNC 425 oz in motors, regardless of choice of controller.
[20:11:27] <cradek> motioncontrol: I use only ubuntu
[20:13:07] <cradek> tombrown_: what size of machine?
[20:13:45] <tombrown_> It's a JoesCNC 4x4 Hybrid. (48" x 48" x 5")
[20:14:12] <tombrown_> I'd like to have 200 ipm rapids, if possible.
[20:14:30] <cradek> what kind of leadscrews?
[20:15:10] <tombrown_> 1/2-10 5 start
[20:15:16] <cradek> yeah that's a lot of travel - fast rapids would be nice
[20:15:31] <cradek> ahh that means two turns per inch right?
[20:15:38] <tombrown_> Yes
[20:15:48] <cradek> ah, I thought you were in dreamland, but maybe not
[20:16:02] <tombrown_> Another builder has achieved 300 ipm with 570 oz in steppers.
[20:16:10] <cradek> you definitely want the big motors because those screws will back-drive the motors with any cutting force
[20:16:19] <motioncontrol> i want use one maschine for compile and one maschine for use emc in stable version.please one council for me.
[20:16:40] <cradek> motioncontrol: it's easy - use the same OS on both
[20:17:13] <cradek> tombrown_: maybe you should try to get the same steppers and drivers he has then
[20:17:57] <tombrown_> Hey motioncontrol, if you have to ask Debian versus Ubuntu, go Ubuntu. There's nothing wrong with Debian but it's aimed at an audience who likes to tinker with details more.
[20:17:58] <cradek> the xylotex is way too wimpy for this speed I bet. it is only 24 volt.
[20:18:56] <motioncontrol> i want use ubuntu , but on ubuntu i can't compile emc2
[20:18:59] <tombrown_> That means 4 x G201 controllers, 4 x 570 oz in steppers, and a 600 Watt x 70V PSU.
[20:19:06] <cradek> my advice is keep your $500 until you've figured out the best way to get what you need
[20:19:14] <tombrown_> Thank you, Cradek.
[20:19:16] <cradek> yes
[20:19:24] <cradek> you will want geckos for that speed
[20:19:57] <tombrown_> Thank you.
[20:20:00] <cradek> motioncontrol: then you are doing something wrong. instructions here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[20:20:32] <cradek> tombrown_: (or servos...)
[20:20:57] <cradek> but that's another world of complexity
[20:21:37] <tombrown_> I think motioncontrol is trying to install packages from a LiveCD boot. On Kubuntu 8.10, there is no direct Apt support. It's just meant to install and kick around in a bit if you want to play or fix a system. I assume Ubuntu is the same.
[20:22:06] <cradek> it is possible to use apt on ubuntu while booted from the live cd
[20:23:07] <tombrown_> Fair enough. I will not comment further on Ubuntu since I'm a KDE snob.
[20:23:08] <cradek> tombrown_: if you're in that deep already, maybe talk to pico systems and see if he can set you up with a turnkey servo setup
[20:23:49] <cradek> do you already have the leadscrews?
[20:23:53] <archivist_attic> following the instructions and using ubuntu just works TM
[20:24:01] <cradek> with servos you wouldn't need those extremely coarse screws
[20:24:08] <tombrown_> No. I do not have the leadscrews.
[20:24:16] <motioncontrol> ok i have the live cd , but on live cd run emc2 2.2.5.i know the possibili the upgrade emc2 whit apt, but i want conpile emc2 source, and on live cd not is the package for compile emc2
[20:24:51] <cradek> motioncontrol: READ THE INSTRUCTIONS at the link I pasted earlier
[20:25:05] <archivist_attic> install from livecd, then get needs for compliation
[20:25:34] <archivist_attic> its all on the wiki I followed it, it works
[20:25:45] <tombrown_> I have the option of 1/2" 2 start lead screws (5 turns per inch) but then I would be concerned about whipping.
[20:26:35] <cradek> yeah, 1/2 seems pretty small for a 2' screw
[20:26:49] <cradek> you don't have one end free do you? both ends in bearings?
[20:27:28] <tombrown_> Both ends in bearings.
[20:27:42] <skunkworks_> if it is like the original joes - they are bearinged on both ends
[20:27:55] <tombrown_> I see 1/2" acme shoudl be good for around 800 RPM. That would put me at 160 IPM. That's not bad.
[20:28:03] <cradek> I don't know the math but I bet the screws have a max speed for a certain length...
[20:28:54] <tombrown_> I do know the math. The math shows about 800 RPM for 48" but the lead scews are a few inches longer than that.
[20:29:17] <cradek> can you go up a diameter?
[20:30:10] <tombrown_> I hessitate to because it would add complexity to the build. Bearings get a little bigger and maybe don't mount in the same delrin inserts I had Joe machine for me.
[20:30:13] <cradek> or maybe your 5 start and large steppers are what you want, just brainstorming
[20:30:25] <tombrown_> Maybe there is a 1/2" 4 start?
[20:30:35] <tombrown_> I will check with McMaster-Carr
[20:30:53] <cradek> with steppers direct-driving a 2tpi screw, each step is .0025 inches
[20:31:00] <cradek> that seems awful coarse to me
[20:32:03] <tombrown_> I found a 1/2" - 8 tpi - 2 start. That might be interesting.
[20:32:23] <tombrown_> 4 RPI
[20:32:29] <tombrown_> There's my 200 ipm.
[20:33:39] <cradek> plastic nuts or bronze?
[20:34:42] <tombrown_> Plastc - Dumpster ABL nuts.
[20:35:27] <cradek> ah, those are nice. I have them on one of my desktop machines. you'll give them a workout with this long travel.
[20:36:11] <tombrown_> I assume they'll need replacing every few hundred hours.
[20:36:25] <tombrown_> ... but ball nuts aren't nearly as affordable.
[20:37:05] <cradek> yeah, and they have to be kept scrupulously clean and oiled
[20:37:31] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work just got a box with some 50 pin ribbon cables :)
[20:37:41] <seb_kuzminsky> BJT-Work: yay!
[20:38:18] <tombrown_> Thanks again for the help, Cradek. I really appreciate it.
[20:39:01] <cradek> you're welcome, my advice is worth at least every penny you paid :-)
[20:49:41] <BJT-Work> mine is worth less than that sometimes :)
[20:50:23] <BJT-Work> * BJT-Work heads out ...
[20:50:32] <skunkworks_> I pay people to give them my advise. Very therapeutic
[21:19:40] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: I could use some of your advise :P
[21:19:53] <roel01> hi to all
[21:20:25] <alex_joni> hi roel01
[21:47:46] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:47:55] <cradek> g'night alex
[21:48:00] <roel01> night alex
[21:51:16] <MrSunshine> dodo :)
[21:51:28] <MrSunshine> yey got my first run done today also, with all axis working flawlessly :)
[21:58:02] <MrSunshine> is there support for "probing" in emc ? .. that is if i have a metal place and take my mill down to it it stops or records the position when it gets a current running in it? :)
[21:58:34] <jepler> did you try looking in the gcode reference for it?
[21:59:05] <MrSunshine> im totaly new to the cnc scene =)
[21:59:06] <MrSunshine> so no ? :)
[21:59:44] <jepler> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G38.2:-Straight-Probe
[21:59:52] <fenn> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html is a good one
[22:00:07] <MrSunshine> thanks :)
[22:02:10] <MrSunshine> G38.2 looks like something
[22:02:21] <MrSunshine> but i have to put that myself into the code then ?
[22:03:45] <jepler> how else would a computer know that you wanted to probe, except that you directed it to?
[22:05:45] <MrSunshine> jepler, i was thinking if there was a button in emc or something .. "go find depth" :P
[22:05:49] <MrSunshine> or something .)
[22:06:57] <fenn> actually there is a "touch off" button
[22:13:43] <jepler> yes but it doesn't make the machine move
[22:42:51] <roel01> latest version off emc what requirements for pc do i neet to have
[22:46:16] <fenn> x86, 512MB RAM, not a laptop
[22:46:50] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/common_System_Requirements.html
[22:47:01] <fenn> oh wow an official answer
[22:47:12] <roel01> ow thanks cradek
[22:47:49] <cradek> second link on the docs page...
[22:48:33] <cradek> weird, I thought G28.1/G30.1 were in the docs but I see they are missing
[22:51:36] <toastydeath> i broke my first machine
[22:51:52] <cradek> uh-oh
[22:52:16] <toastydeath> the doodad that holds both the ballscrews in one of the bridgeports, it's this weird cast part, i snapped a good chunk out of that
[22:52:36] <cradek> the yoke?
[22:52:42] <toastydeath> is that what it's called?
[22:53:00] <cradek> under the table where they intersect?
[22:53:02] <toastydeath> yeah
[22:53:05] <cradek> I think so
[22:53:11] <cradek> I think people break them all the time :-/
[22:53:29] <toastydeath> it stuck me as an awfully retarded way to mount the screws.
[22:53:29] <cradek> what did you do?
[22:54:15] <toastydeath> one of the non-machinist guys in R&D brought the machine back up wrong after a power loss and left it
[22:54:29] <toastydeath> so when i went to go use it, i pressed one of the "rapid feed" buttons, unaware
[22:54:39] <toastydeath> it rapid fed, all right
[22:54:40] <toastydeath> and didn't stop
[22:54:48] <toastydeath> and didn't have any of the software limits in the machine anymore
[22:55:15] <roel01> and no hardware limits !
[22:55:17] <toastydeath> so it rammed up against the front of the knee and snapped out
[22:55:26] <toastydeath> well there was a "hardware" limit
[22:55:43] <roel01> pull the plug !
[22:55:47] <toastydeath> too far away
[22:56:02] <toastydeath> about all i had time to think was, "i don't remember the rapid feed working this way before"
[22:56:38] <toastydeath> on the positive side now i know how to disassemble most of a bridgeport
[22:57:10] <toastydeath> bbl.
[23:02:59] <cradek> bizarre - doesn't it home?
[23:03:12] <roel01> im using only a small router for drilling pwb so emc should accept excellon file's
[23:03:32] <cradek> roel01: emc uses gcode
[23:04:13] <roel01> i know cradec im not the first time in this room he'
[23:45:49] <roel01> i'm trying to find out iff emc accept encoder inputs on lpt port
[23:47:08] <robh_> yes it will but not very fast rate due to limits
[23:47:41] <roel01> im working with stepper motors so not that fast i think
[23:48:27] <robh_> what are you using encoder for?
[23:49:14] <roel01> position off x an y ax
[23:50:04] <robh_> if ur encoders are not high count, 100ppr or so u will probly be ok, but i cant say for sure sorry, as i have not used or looked at limits of LPT encoder ins
[23:50:31] <robh_> should be in the docs i belive, in the intergrator manual